Healthy Itachi vs Madara - The Real Winner?
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Title & Thumbnail sum this topic up pretty well it's quite literally just me going over how I think a fight between Madara and a Healthy Itachi would actually go.
Intro: 0:00
Itachi's "Arsenal" is outdated: 0:56
Establishing a Version of Madara: 3:02
Itachi Holds back in his fights: 3:59
Totsuka Blade vs Madara: 8:49
Itachi's MS abilities vs Madara: 9:27
Healthy Itachi's "Limit": 15:32
The Winner: 17:58
Thank you for watching :) (Somewhere in this video I said like "EMS Madara could absorb Amaterasu" I meant to say Edo Madara lol)
W Six
WHAT? Lol
There's NO SUCH thing as healthy Itachi dude, He doesnt exist. You Guy wanked Itachi Way too Much You should be more realistic When talking about him.
Itachi Gets Bodied by Pain.
How would he take out any madara version?
@@lukejordan8580 So, you didn't watch the video CLEARLY.
@@sixfromtokyo wasn't it the Rinnegan that absorbed the Amaterasu and not Madara being an Edo Tensei?
And even if the Totsuka blade was able to seal anything, Madara could just create clones and use the Susanoo like he did with the 5 Kage?
@@graysamagaming9606 I don't understand the first part of your question & yea the second part is true it's just a matter of timing.
Itachi and Madara flexed on almost everybody they ever meet. their the reason the Uchiha clan had black force energy
All it takes is to meet the right one.
Itachi only fought weak people tho. (Weak in comparison to strong ones)
@@allipse8224bro itachi blitzed and defeated edo nagato with an 8 tails amp, took on a 1v2 of bee and kcm naruto with just his base sharingan, plus had to constantly save EMS sasuke against kabuto. itachi never fought any like 6 paths characters but he just destroyed anyone in the verse that wasnt on that level
@@AidenB1010hashirama destroys him and he is not 6 path level,minato too could out stamina him too
Bro read the manga. Itachi was going all out against kcm1 since he was being controled, kcm1 naruto was holding back for info. Edo itachi wouldn't defeat edo nagato, remember nagato still thought itachi was under control. Itachi got kabuto by surprise while kabuto was mopping the floor with the other 2 @AidenB1010
Should have been Nagato and Itachi vs Madara for a actual debate but i still think they lose
That’s also pretty boring if madara thought Juubito was nothing more than an inconvenience and already had a plan for him what makes you think a guy with HIS OWN eyes is gonna beat him lol
@@wassicapone6623 Madara had Hashirama cells and rinnegan which he didn't have at his prime while he was alive which even Kabuto acknowledged when he said his edo is special because he has his young body with rinnegan (which he awakened in old age) and Hashirama cells boost which gave him wood style and ability to control senjutsu chakra after absorbing it (which pain/Nagato cannot)
Nagato, sage Kabuto, white mask Obito and Edo itachi might be somewhat closer
@@elpolitemexa2272 Nah WM obito is already a threat to madara on his own.
@@SouthpawsRule217 thats exactly why I think it would be a closer fight
I think Madara's intelligence is understated a bit. People forget he was fighting blind and just out-thinking the entire shinobi alliance
He also figured out Kamui after seeing it once IIRC.
Nah he was just too damn powerful.. He had limbo which no one could sense or see + no one was in his league at that time .. the Shinobi alliance was way too outmatched to do anything.. this changed however when both Naruto and Sasuke got six paths buffs .. they legit countered everything Madara threw at them even the Infinite Tsukuyomi and made him retreat at the start
You do realize his body was enhanced by the highest degree by kabuto right, the real fact is madara should’ve came back exactly when he died meaning old asf like hiruzen, he also had hashirama cells which is the only way too awaken the rinnegan, you need ashura decedents blood/cells, he has wood style which isn’t his
@@YaGotBusted he would achieve it in his own ways, kabuto was just a pleasant surprise, madara aleeady have hashirama cells when he took hashiramas flesh and use it to awaken his rinnegan, he already have complete control of white zetsus which he derived from hashirama cells, with his own rinnegan he already planned obito to do the rinne rebirth technique, and he would also reach his full power
Yeah but he also had sage from hashirama...
Rinnegan cannot see through smoke, only chakra imprints. The only reason why one of the pain paths blocked Jiraiya was because a second Pain was looking into the smoke from the outside, meaning they could see the chakra imprints whch were literally outside the vision of the first pain.
With Nagato the entire problem isnt that he even needs to see. Hus overall sensory abilities are so good thst he was the only one to find Kabutobsnd his hideout miles away beneeth the best anti detection methods possible.
The reason he peformed so poorly is that during the white hair part he is programmed to capture bee and Naruto. Not fight Itachi who reprogrammed himself out of that.
Red hair is directly controlled by Kabuto wich is why he uses the abilities worse then Pain did. As well as admitting to Itachi to not have known of Nagatos incredible sensory abilities.
What more or less confirms this as an Uzumaki and not a Rinnegan feat is the fact that Karin can do this to a lesser exzend. Even mapping outventire buildings.
The six paths of pain only have their one borrowed skillset. Bjt never Nagatos inherit abilities hence they needed the Rinnegan there.
And Madara does not have Nagatos Uzumaki abilities either to do so.
If Kakashi can see a move like Tsukyomi coming, surely Madara can see both Amaterasu and Tsukyomi coming. He’s in another league.
you can never see it coming, he actually assumed not even sasuke knew it was coming till Itachi broke him out
Tsukuyomi wouldn't even work against Madara because he can cancel it with his MS.
@@nobblkpraetorian5623 Not that it would matter, tsukyomi is a one shot and it has no duration. You can cancel it in 0.001 seconds of being in it but Itachi can make that 1 millisecond feel like 1000 years. It’s over as soon as you’re in it.
@@luhniso Madara would be completely immune to Tsukuyomi, even its time perception effect wouldn't work. If Itachi could hit MS users with Tsukuyomi he would've killed Obito a long time ago.
@@luhniso madara literally uses tsukuyomi in the manga when showing Obito the Gedo mazo. It’s literally useless genjutsu too madara
To be fair waring stated period Madara with just Ms can still fight evenly with base Hashirama.
Which we don't know how strong base Hashirama unless I am wrong he did have the normal Buddha statue
@@gameuniverse5973 even in base he can slam around the nine tails.He also can summon the wood golem and stuff.
that was EMS madara LOL dont use the "entire senju clan" it was clear the other senju were just watching them
@@amogus1415 i was talking about the base Hashirama from that time since we don't know strong final valley is to waring period
@@gameuniverse5973 im pretty sure even early on the 2 were considered the pinnacle of all shinobi and gods.It would be weird if he wasnt nine tails level.
Itachi can make so many contingency plans for whatever but Madara is just such a damn powerhouse tank that I can only see it going in Madara's favor. ESPECIALLY if he's fully resurrected.
itachi would need konan levels of prep to take down virtually any form of madara past regular MS
Koto oneshots. Prime itachi is Genin age itachi with full potential koto. Genin age itachi wins.
@@barbarrox😂😂😂 shut up
@barbarrox the eye is on cool down until he gives it to naruto. After that he destroys the eye entirely so in either case he doesnt have access to it. Also we have seen susanoo can neg genjutsu so even if itachi did have it its still just not going to work
8:19 I'm really confident that Rinnegan can't see through smoke because in Naruto vs Pain, Naruto uses smoke bombs as concealment and the result is that he ends up catching Pain off guard. Seeing through stuff is just a Byakugan thing IMO.
Same with Jiraiya vs Pain, he was able to blindside them and even hit them with an audible genjutsu. If Rinnegan was equipped with Byakugan abilities as well as Sharingan, then it’s another story
There’s something ur forgetting, Naruto was standing on dirt, his bomb brought up dirt particles which stopped Pain from seeing. Something kinda similar was used against Isshiki, so the rinnegan can see through purely smoke but it can’t see if particles are in the smoke
Possible reason itachi used tsukyomi is that he wanted to prepare Kakashi for what it couldve been like if he continued to train sasuke in his sharingan. Or maybe it was a front to make it seem like itachi was seriously with the akatsuki
Yea, also it's a great way to scare Danzo you know, what better way of saying "I'm still here and very capable of killing you if I want" than incapacitating kakashi, their strongest jonin by putting him in a coma. The message definitely got across lol
@Anson Watling lmao I'm actually crying. Danzo probably heard itachi was in the village, shit a brick and hid where the genin did during the konoha crush arc🤣🤣
@@E1deRival I'm weak bro wanted no smoke 💀
@@ansonwatling7787 fseee😭🫠
nah, it was because kishimoto didn't come up with the whole double agent thing until the start of shippuden
Even with a EMS I don’t think Itachi could win.
He’s going up against someone whose on a completely different level.
With Ems he would definitely beat madara. He’d have a perfect susanoo with better weapons
@@sd-pv2vy💀
@@sd-pv2vyEms doesn't automatically mean perfect susano
Sasuke who 100% grew in power way faster than Itachi didn't even get his perfect Sus until he got his rinnegan
Also madara would have the chakra to make clones with Sus so yeah no Itachi still loses
@@sd-pv2vy ems itachi is basically just edo itachi lol. and he's still weak af
@some_shitposting_idiot3023 Itachi was literally a prodigy. It would be safe to assume he would of attained perfect Susanoo if he got ems. You can't really compare Sasukes progress to itatchi or any other Uchihas susanoo tbh because susake was a shitter
Itachi fans always say his talent surpasses Madara but I’ve yet to find a convincing argument for why this would be the case especially considering Madara is an Indra
like what are they smoking for real, the most basic way to state is would be saying they think itachi would be able to run hands with hashirama for days straight and win and that’s the best scenario for itachi everything after that is well….. itachi ain’t fighting the 5 kage, all the hokage, all 5 nations, both protagonists and the konoha 11 + kakashi and guy then later obito….
imo madara is more talanted and a better fighter, but itachi is more intelligent
The Itachi fanboy arguments hurt my soul 😂😂😂
" itachi is a genius " so is madara lmao even more
@@flowbrogonewild5557 ain't no way you just said Itachi is smarter than madara
Any form of Madara that is not Alive Madara without Kurama is not a fair fight, specially since Itachi does not have EMS. A better debate would be a hypothetical EMS healthy Itachi vs Alive Madara, not revived sage Hashi cells etc bullshit included.
That’s not a fair fight either lmao it’s a fuckin Shitstomp. Even without the Nine tails , EMS Madara still fought Prime Alive Sage mode Hashirama for 24 hrs straight to the point hashi couldn’t hold sage mode anymore and nearly passed out from exhaustion after barely beating ems madara . A hypothetical ems itachi isn’t anywhere on prime hashiramas level or going toe to toe with Sage mode alive Hashirama and surviving, edo itachi without sickness and unlimited sharingan use wasn’t even stronger than sage kabuto and had to resort to izanami because literally 0 of his other attacks would connect and he was on his 3rd edo death in their fight . Maybe warring states Ems madara who lost to base Hashirama would be less of a stomp .
@@meetthemoo225 I agree, that's why I said a hypothetical EMS Itachi, I am asuming he'd get a substantial buff, enough to make it somewhat of a fight. Another fair scenario would be Warring states MS Madara vs hypothetical healthy MS Itachi.
alive madara is even stronger lol
Man you're delusional...
Alive Madara > edo Madara hashirama even said it
Even though the Yata Mirror is only from Data Book 3, it isn’t retconned later in the series or in other data books. So I take that as the statement holds throughout the remainder of the series
Think it tanks Indara arrows or night Guy or Madara perfect susano sword swing strong enough to split mountain? Wake up to reality my man.
@@elhood4060 if you can't understand the Shinto concept Kishimoto was getting at with the Yata mirror then it is you who needs to wake up. The lore behind it is that it is an impenetrable defense. You are literally making stuff up just because you can't believe what the manga says. There are plenty of sharingan abilities that scale to the end of the series, including Sasuke's and Madara's, which you mentioned. You have 0 basis for saying that Itachi's sharingan abilities don't work the way it's described to in the manga and databook. All you have is a refusal to believe
@@TheToby121 juubito sword of Nunoboko was stated to be used by the sage of six paths to carve the world, shit get shattered but the susano sword so yes such statements are too cheap for me to take them seriously especially when they went for DBZ in the war arc
And again it was stated in the video why that only hold as at that point in the series so you're the one not believing the data books 1:55
@@elhood4060 tell him
@@elhood4060 juubitos sword only got shattered because it was as strong as his mental fortitude and he was questioning everything at the same time as naruto and co were going against him and his sword before Yk or I think that was hinted at. I can send the clips to show too . I get what you’re sayin though , but I think it is impenetrable though it being 1 directional is as easy as a counter as anything and there’s buttloads of characters fast enough to blitz blurry eyed sharingan itachi faster than he can turn lol
Both Sakura victims
W
fr
real
ong
Keep spittin
8:30, pain was also not able to see narutos clones through the red smoke in their fight in konoha
Facts
Facts that was stated itachi tards take that feat out of hand
Even if bro was healthy bro, still gets slapped up
I always thought itachi let sasuke break tsukoyomi to hype him up like everything else in the fight
Ya that’s what I thought too, still not all the way convinced if he did break it, mainly because it didn’t make sense. Exactly how white zetsu was saying the whole match. Itachi Sharingan should have a problem against Sauskes even if he did try super hard with it. If Sasuke did really break it without Itachi holding back that’s pretty cool, but it seems like it’s not the case.
I believe Itachi purposely used a weak Tsukuyomi (because we know he can alter the effectiveness of it) on Sasuke because he obviously still loved him and let him win. Why would he use the same Tsukuyomi that crippled Kakashi for weeks.
@@thmistrapillay1811you really find anything to ride his 🍖
@@thmistrapillay1811 no in the ln it's stated that a Uchiha with a mature sharingan can break tsukiyomi if he has a strong mentality
@@midsectionmark8956 ofc it makes sense, since if itachi use tsukuyomi till he is dead or even just till he collapses his plan dont work out.. hell even if he is close to collapsing and unable to fight. Itachi letting break sasuke free on purpose is absolut obvious
This is what I’ve been waiting for baby
doesn’t madara have like all knowledge on uchiha abilities so like anything itachi would try would be pointless tbh
We don't know if those limitations exist in canon for Itachi's mangekyou abilities. Also showings such as part 1 Itachi getting super tired after one use of Amatarasu and Tsukuyomi are heavily outdated considering what we seen he could do on his deathbed in his final fight against Sasuke. His showings in part 1 could be him just making excuses not to go too far considering he was a leaf spy all along.
But his showings in terms of chakra reserves aren't great in that final fight either. He used basic genjutsu once, Tsukuyomi once, Amaterasu once, katon once and the Susanoo very briefly. His sickness has never been stated to impact his chakra in any way so we have to rule that out.
@@oliverstrizak9958 People have to understand that while the Uchiha got a lot of love. The most love, it was all about Sasuke at the end of the day. Very early into part one, once they started the Sasuke Retroeval Arc, it was all about Sasuke. I understand him being Kishimoto’s favorite character but jfc. There are going to be holes EVERYWHERE due to him being so focused on ONE person and ONE clan. Itachi and Shisui are the main ones we can’t clearly figure out due to all of the holes in the story.
@@offnodope3123 there’s no holes in the story.
@@Rck-vert whatever you say rkc
@@offnodope3123 exactly, every single uchiha that was drawn design look liked they actually put thought into it.The three uchihas who killed the young senju, and fugaku design was simple yet very cool.
The sharingan was the most focused on power that it kept getting some unique ability as the story continued
Madara is still winning.
Not if itachi has Rennegan
all these what ifs to make itachi win. Itachi weak he looses to sakura .
@@DivineMind9
Even if itachi had rinnegan, madara is clapping him lol. Just stop💀.
Madara is the strongest uchiha in history, apart from Sasuke.
@@DivineMind9 lol with rinnegan itachi dies from chakra drainage immediately
Hi Six ! Love the channel and the matchups are absolutely awesome. Could you please do a video about what if Orochimaru joined Jiraya againts Pain ? Many thanks
Good choice with editing and sound direction
Healthy Clyde vs Sick Seth
Hey bro I'm sorry for what Seth said man, ur a great content creator 🙏
Good points, well argued! Debate settled
“Every just gas a weakness you just have to find it”
- Itachi Uchiha
I thought this guy was Seth's goon🤣. But he got blocked
Madara could probably absorb jutsu with his susanoo active, it's just that it gets in the way in where he'd have to absorb his own susanoo first since it's projected outward in front of him which is why he says it "gets in the way". This is just a hypothesis though
I'm inclined to concur, afaik every instance of jutsu absorption is done through direct contact with the jutsu itself; Rinnegan users seem to grab/ grapple the jutsu in order to absorb it, so having a dense aura of chakra surrounding & shielding you reasonably would very literally get in the way.
I thought it might not get in the way. We’ve seen madara use a fire style from inside the susanoo and it didn’t interfere so maybe absorption wouldn’t have interference either. Susanoo doesn’t really seem to have many inconveniences for the user
@@snowboundwhale6860 afaik?
The only definitive things is that when leaving the village he states to be weaker than shisui but at prime is stronger than orochinaru. But still is weaker than obito. I dont think it's close to madara especially the ems to non ems difference they have. Also I don't think he could box hashirama for 3 days straight.
He would last two minutes against Hashirama
@@gameuniverse5973 100% agree, but one think I never understood is, does Hashirama haver some sort of genjutsu resistance? He probably does right? Cause Madara never tried to use genjutsu on Hashirama even once
@@MrVeekz wood clones go blitz itachi
@@MrVeekz I guess the density of his chakra in general + the busted amount he has in sage mode makes it hard to disrupt his network and actually put him under a genjutsu, he passively just snaps out of it because his CP > Caster CP
@@MrVeekz cant use genjustu on a perfect sage. I forget but something about the nature energy can snap you out of it. So no cant genjustu the man. Only one that would work is kotoamsukami but like it's got a 14 year cooldown. Also maybe the moon genjustu but like God lvl shit.
Love the choice of music
i appreciate that you put the databook page on the screen when you said “sasuke broke the tsukuyomi” because all i had to do was read to see that he did not in fact break out of tsukuyomi. it just says “they both cast genjutsu”, then it says “sasuke is driven into an eternal hell created by the mangekyo sharingan” and then finally “with his masterful use of the sharingan, sasuke defeats the mangekyo sharingan”. i believe that the purpose of this is to show how skilled sasuke is with the sharingan, as he used it to break out of a NORMAL genjutsu cast by a mangekyo owner, which is significant because we know advancing the sharingan makes genjutsu more powerful, so it is a feat that sasuke could break out with no mangekyo himself. it does not state that itachi used tsukuyomi, and i do not believe sasuke (or anyone else) would be able to break out of tsukuyomi.
Couldn't you break out of Tsukiyomi if you have Sage Mode ? And if that's the case Sasuke could break out using the Curse Mark LVL 2 which is sage mode ?
100% agree, not to mention Kakashi himself had a huge resistance to Genjutsu and was utterly helpless to Tsukuyomi
@@WARLORD626 I've never heard of SM helping you break Genjutsu, I guess SM just makes you all around stronger, but it doesn't specifically give you Genjutsu resistance. You maybe thinking of being a Perfect Jinjuriki
Didn't the data book say anyone with a Mangekyou would be able to break out?
Itachi's chances of winning go up like 1 percent if he's healthy. People overrate Itachi way too much and forget just how much of a beast Madara was. His name alone instilled fear in nearly all shinobi decades after his supposed death and even further after his actual death.
Itachi's name was known throughout the entire ninja world. He was the most wanted on the list because no one knew Obito or Pain.
Not only is Itachi from the same clan, but he made the clan extinct. Surely, the man who "Solo'd" the entire clan Madara came from will be just as renowned.
Not advocating Itachi's win...just the respect he deserves.
@@Faustained tru but he still didn’t solo them
@@dc7981 yes. That's what quotations are for.
No one knew Obito helped.
Keep up if you're going to comment.
There’s only a small handful that overrate him in a fight against Madara. It’s much more likely people under rate him in the fight.
I agree with you on this overall but i would actually put it closer to itachi getting 30%-40% chance of victory if he is healthy.
Honestly the indra thing kinda makes the whole madara/sasuke potential easy to get, they are both equally talented but sasuke did not get the amount of dedicated training by adults to help him match madara in the same age group. And everyone in the clan agreed itachi was more talented than sasuke. So itachi is more talented than madara. He may not have the same potential power celing but is definitely more talented as a shinobi. And I'm pretty sure one of the data books outright stated itachi was the smartest kid in all of konoha's records... which will include clan records from the waring state period theoretically, so they could include madara. Either way madara has shown to he an arrogant ass (like sasuke) who does stupid mistakes whilst showing off to stroke his own ego which i ultimately belive is his most expolitable weakness..
As for why I think Itachi would do so much better, it's because his healthy stats would be far better and on par with kcm naruto at least. The reason I think this is because itachi's symptoms remind me of my grandpa's lung faliure and how he responded to it. If itachi's final showings alive are him when he's coughing out blood daily(my grandpa had only 30% working lungs when that started to happen to him) and compare it to how he would theoretically be at full health... well physical energy which is half of chakra is dependant on one's health... so he's throwing out a susano and 4 or so amatarasus whilst in that state. My grandpa couldn't walk in more than 5 minuites before feeling too tired to even stand and coughing up blood... 3 years earlier he could do a 3 hour hike up a mountian daily...
So in my head, itachi as a healthy person should be producing an order of magnitude more physical energy for chakara (effectively increasing how much his chakara can empower his physical stats considerably) and have his strength, speed, endurance and concentration(because lung faliure hurts like hell and makes focusing on anything without alot of drugs really hard) increased by anything from 5 fold to 50 fold(when he isn't enhancing his body with chakara)
Mind you that's just my opinion based on the idea he's suffered from a similar condition to my grandpa, and using that baseline for a comparison to estimate a healthy itachi's potential.
I fully expect a healthy Itachi to be at least 50 to 100 times stronger than his final fight with sasuke and still lose to madara most of the time with something like 10% chance of winning the fight straight up and 20% chance of living madara stopping to stroke his ego and itachi abusing it to successfully backstab madara.
Also im gonna add that edo tensei madara was on average more stupid gloaty ego stereotype than live madara so I would up the chance of gloating killing him to something like 30% in his edo tensei. The anime did paint him as kinda a battle junkie, so he's ironically more dangerous when he isn't an immortal with an infinately regenerating chakara pool.
Mind you I know I'm not a medical professional and much of my interpretations are based on Itachi having certain symptoms and the assumptions that all indras are born equal and only show a difference as they age and are shaped by the world around them.
i think what people mean by "healthy itachi" or at least i hope they mean is that he was ALWAYS healthy so his growth would be altered via training change in mindset fighting considerations ect.
When are you dropping a Video on Seth ?
IMO.
Itachi, like minato, had some of the highest latent talent and potential of people in the series. Neither had a true rival like the pair of indra/ ashura reincarnates. Neither were truly challenged in their eras either and neither were war mongers driven to reach higher states of power. Their intellects would be what separated them from those they met on the battlefield.
Madara stomps both from what was depicted. There is a win condition arguable but in all actuality its not close.
However, Neither Itachi nor Minato reached their full potentials (especially Itachi).
I think it may be fair to argue that they had the potential to reach madara level but neither survived long enough to do it.
TLDR: Itachi may have had potential to rival madara's but never reached it.
it would be interesting if itachi had a higher natural reserve like ay or kisame did
Madaras talent was peak besides Indra madara was a monster as a kid bro
You made some very valid points. But my winner is still the same.
Kakazu
*raw durability*
lol I think I get the reference
One problem with your amps for Sasuke being bellow Madara. Those amps were temporary and Sasuke didn’t have the cloak or the curse mark power amp when facing Madara
I think there's an actual difference between an Edo being forced to do something, zombie/mindless mode, remotely controlled and an Edo that is actually doing what he wants in terms of efficiency and how effective they are in what they are doing.
So Nagato in this healthy without limits Edo form is being greatly underestimated vs. a full willing healthy without limits Edo form Itachi. The Ginkaku brothers and other actual evil Edos were perfect examples on how much more efficient when they were in control and actually causing mayhem, same for Edo Madara were he was given control most of the time to enjoy letting loose in fights... because he was a willing participant in engaging in fights, same for Edo Hashirama working for the good side... as opposed to Edo Nagato who was forced to do something he didn't want to do, so he was less effective being forced controlled whether remote controlled or zombie/kill all emotions mode which proved to be very ineffective in the end... Oro-Kabuto could not bring out their full potential if they weren't willing participants like the Ginkaku/Nine Tail Jinchuriki bros & Madara.
I feel like a lot of people just see Healthy Itachi as a slightly stronger version of Edo Itachi, but in my opinion a healthy Itachi would be able to train far more that he did in the canon timeline, he would be a completely different beast. It's too headcanon to say he would beat Madara but it's a whole different character than where he peaked at because of his illness.
Most peoples main oversight^
kinda hard to train when you’re coughing up blood
Tbh this kinda goes against Itachi’s nature. If he was healthy, I don’t think he trains much harder honestly. He hated fighting. He only did it to protect the leaf. His training was solely based around that, not to be the strongest. He was skilled and gifted enough to be near the top just maintaining sharpness. Either way, no way of knowing his potential.
Clowns, did you know when his illness began? Dude already trained alot even in his teen so all your IFs are pointless.
@@elhood4060 oh yes like all of those young athletes that peak at 15 and totally don't get any better in their peak years later in their 20s. 🤡.
@@jenostheascended7818 😂😂 Well I hardly see adults training in Naruto correct me if I'm wrong. I don't see him sneaking out of the Akatsuki hideout to train on what? Using amaterasu or susano so he goes blind during training? What exactly is there to train? Taijutsu and fire style? I don't see that putting him far ahead where he's already at. There's a limit to what MS users can achieve for some reason y'all don't take that into account when we talk about itachi
Do Itachi as a kid versus Juubi Jinchuriki Madara w/ all three Rinnegan, bloodlusted.
Spoiler alert: ITACHI WINS
Imagine getting notified 6 days later
8:33 what are the arguments against the rinnegan being able to see through the smoke?
12:00 Is time dilation useful at all in 1v1 fight when opponent has chance of breaking it? It's still the mind that breaks through so it shouldn't matter whether he controls time or not, it's only really useful if you want to beat somebody up that badly or prevent another person from cancelling Tsukuyomi.
Also interesting detail I noticed just now - Itachi used Tsukuyomi for genjutsu that tried to cover itself up as reality, which he never does at any other point. That shows he actually expected Sasuke to be able to break it if he knew immediately it's an illusion.
I feel like Swagkage, Seth, or Six makes a video about this once a week
Sasuke breaking out of tsukuyomi (or however it's spelled) may have just been Itachi letting sauske break out or using a weaker version of the jutsu. Don't think it really changes the outcome, but just saying
Do a video about Seth vs Clyde!
Not sure you can just say that the Itachi information is outdated because it's just talking about an ability. Yes Madara is stronger than Itachi and would win in a fight. But considering how fast Itachi grew and his unique abilities I think he had the potential to surpass alive Madara had he gained EMS and stayed healthy. Unfortunately that's not how things panned out.
@@therealkhobe-2721 Not sure being an reincarnation of Indira and Ashura means you are automatically the strongest. It's a clan of OP ninjas and Itachi was very OP compared to those around him when he was a kid. I'm just saying he had a lot of potential had he been able to stay healthy and obtain EMS.
He most definitely held back against Kakashi. Tsukuyomi is capable of tricking the victim's brain into thinking they have died of old age. which then kills them in real life. he has done this with Izumi when he massacred his clan. He could have easily done something more grotesque with Kakashi but chose not to.
@prasadvasupalli8755 He clearly held back wtf you are talking. He never wanted kill kakashi. Also Ms genin age Itachi vs MS Madara, Itachi wins. Madara wasnt even teen tobirama level lmao databook 4 page 37. And with gifted abillitys itachi still wins. Since in prime he was an perfecct koto available and just oneshots madara.
@prasadvasupalli8755 You are an absolut clown an fanboy obviously. Itachi never needed ms either to be top tier Ninja. Adult madara while being a born half god wasnt even Teen tobirama level and couldnt even surpass his own teenager Brother "databook 4 page 37" means Genin age itachi of 13 would destroy him lmao. Also this Itachi has koto so anyway doesnt matter wich madara will be oneshotted by Kotoamatsukami the unbreakable Genjutsu that doesnt require eye contact wich cant be beaten in a 1v1 databook 4, manga, shinden - Kishimoto.
@prasadvasupalli8755kidnitachi and Kakashi worked together, itachi is a spy, u drunk go read the Manga.
@@barbarroxL meatriding
@@ZuuFo canon facts = meatriding. Madara fanboys at it again lmao
"Healthy Itachi doesn't exist"
That hurt more than it should've🥲
I would say the only reason sasuke was able to break itachis genjutsu was because itachi was extremely sick and weakened his eyes were also in the edge of going out he wasn’t in his prime u can also argue that itachi held it back against sasuke because he didn’t actually want to kill him or hurt him that badly other than that I agree though itachi prime or not should just loose too any version of madara ems and beyond
While it's true itachi was sick, Itachi seemed surprised that sasuke broke out of it, and Tyusukuyomi doesn't necessarily have to hurt the opponent, it can just be used to cast very poweeful and hard to break illusions. Plus even while he was sick, sasuke was still able to break out with just a base 3 tomoe sharingan not even an ms and unlike kakashi (though kakashi may have been weaker than hebi sasuke or itachi was stronger, doubt it but maybe), he was still capable of fighting afterwards
@SixPathsHashira
Absolutely Part 1 Kakashi was weaker than Hebi Sasuke at the very least, I’d say considerably weaker to be honest.
Internet vs Seth
Did Clyde edit this one for you?
Perhaps I'm prematurely commenting, but I'm a bit confused on the part regarding the data books in the beginning of the video. Why would something like the yata mirror suddenly lose its power after chapter 43? Unless that's not what you're trying to convey, in which I'm sorry if that's misrepresenting your point. Not even trying to defend Itachi, I just thought that was odd.
Itachi is not as strong as people think
That’s true especially depending on who you ask. Then again vice versa on how weak people think he should be. Dang confusing anime community.
They are just giving Itachi amps to make him win just because he's their fav character. Narratively and realistically Madara cooks
Yea he didn’t want to kill kakashi, but he knew the best and only way to put him down quietly was with tsukoyomi. Regardless of how much chakra it would’ve cost him. He did have kisame as back up after all
Do you have any proof for your claim of itachi needing to take time to build up tsukuyomi as I’ve never seen that ever mentioned or implied
Remember 6 years ago when we all thought that six years in the future stupid questions like this one wouldn't be made? How naive we were, because to this day they are still being not only asked, but many times are stated as FACT. What's next, Kakuzu vs Pain? Akatsuki vs Six-Paths? SHISUI VS INFINITE TSUKYOMI?
Kinda crazy how much of a pacifist itachi was. That his ultimate weapon was designed for defense rather than offense. a shield to repel all attacks and a blade that sealed rather than killed.
I think he gets mollywhopped just off the basis that they designed madara as the ultimate supervillain to balance them making hashirama the goat.
his intellect would make it a slightly closer battle but I also think he ultimately fails here. Based off everything we were shown about him that is. I really wish we could’ve gotten a glimpse of just how strong he really was.
Its crazy how much of a pacifist itachi was, so much so that he killed his entire clan. The entire ''he was a double agent'' garbage was tacked on in shippuden. Itachi was never meant to be a good guy. But we already know Kishimoto isnt a good writer.
@@CODA96 the lives of the few to save an entire nation. he made the ultimate sacrifice. tacked on or not his character and story are brilliant. and tbh if they kept him purely evil I’d have loved to see that too. 🤷♂️
@@wakaman94 How is that brilliant? Itachi was nothing else but a criminal. Imagine if they just made sasuke a good guy after betraying the leaf village and threaten to murder everyone numerous times. Oh wait, they did that. Kishimoto is a terrible writer. Itachi was just a very popular character so it was easy to rewrite him planning all this. In the original script, Itachi ended his clan to test out his powers, not necessarely to prevent a war.
Then he joined Akatsuki because he was rogue. He didnt even disagree to Kisames idea of chopping off narutos legs. Instead of just knocking out his beloved brother sasuke, he puts him in a genjutsu to relive the death of his family. He uses his most powerful Genjutsu on kakashi, not knowing if he could withstand it. That sounds like a pacifist to you, one thats loyal to the leaf? Only in Shippuden he was rewritten cuz of the fans.
@@CODA96 because it saved the character from being generic akatsuki throwaway member number 5. stay mad though I don’t care
If we are doing head cannon healthy itachi (since he doesn't really exist) I'd like to discuss healthy, ems, perfect susanoo itachi. I've always thought that itachi had the greatest potential for strength in the entire show. I wanna know what a peak itachi would be like.
Yo six. Do healthy Itachi vs edo itachi. Healthy Itachi should have perfect vision and no illness while edo is pretty much blind and has a weaker body but has unlimited chakra and is hard to kill.
Could make the argument that sasuke only broke out because they're brothers so their eyes are kinda linked being siblings and having similar eye genetics or whatever or you could say that itachi was holding back on his genjutsu
If you Google “HIM” Madara pops up
Madara claps Itachi's healthy cheeks into the pavement
Editing tip, id be more interesting if we could see some of the manga panels that six is talking about instead of a close of of one for 2 mins
EMS grants perfect Susanno, if Itachi has perfect Susanno, and he took Sasuke’s eyes, with the Yatamir, totsuka blade, Ameteratsu, and Tskuyomi, I don’t know what Madara ( Alive in his original prime) would have over him since we never got to see his MS abilities. It would be cool if his time abilities in the storm games were supported in the manga or show
He was still a fuck ton stronger, faster, and had way more knowledge and understanding of the Sharingan's abilities than Itachi. Madara's Susanoo would still be way stronger, but it would be more susceptible to getting hit with Totsuka Blade and Amaterasu. It is kinda possible that Madara knows about the Totsuka already since it was a famed sword, even Orochimaru knew about it. Yata Mirror would be kinda hard to get around as well tho, probly the best thing he has going for him since EMS Madara mostly used kenjutsu and fire style and was more destructive. I think Itachi has more hax abilities but Alive Madara has the better stats and experience, the win could go to either
The community cant stand itachi can just totska blade madara
The community can't stand Konohamaru can just Rasengan Madara
Gets blitz and one shotted before he can even think.
Madara literally knows about totsuka blade and you can't use that if you are out of range
Itachi is sessile in his Susano
Healthy or not Madara beats Itachi.
I'm proud of you six... You're no longer Seth's slave. Now you can actually grow!
He never was
@@shadowuchiha4311 Seth bullied six for like year wym😂
@@iqxskill In what way?
@@shadowuchiha4311 every time they would live stream Seth would treat him as a lackey and make fat jokes all the time. He even talked about his parents
I think the question would also be if Itachi didn't have that sickness, what would his potential have been. He had more feats than Sasuke if you compare them at the same ages and I believe if Itachi would have gotten the time and health, he would probably have become even stronger than Sasuke. (the only counter argument for that is maybe that Sasuke is the rebirth of indra wich gives him plot feats)
I think the reason he mentally broke Kakashi is 1. Kishmoto had not decided the plot twist yet 2. To make it more convincing if he did not seriously damage or kill at least one elite leaf member Ataksuki would have questioned him
Yeah idk why people still get confused over that. Itachi had to keep up the act that he's really a bad guy. If he went easy on them it'd just be weird. I'm not saying they'd necessarily be suspicious, but still.
Itachi also admits that he messed up with how he went about things and that he wishes he had told Sasuke the truth earlier when he was an Edo. So there's that too. Itachi knew his plan wasn't perfect but he basically had no choice but to go along with it at thay point.
Everyone wins seth got cancelled XD
It all comes down to if he was never sick what would his stamina be like. And can he get ems.
We really gotta remember that itachi had to literally will his body to move with chakra the same meaning his stamina takes a massive hit it’s just like how kikashi explained to naruto he has 4x more chakra than him but if he wasn’t surprising the nine tails he’d have 100x more it’s the same thing itachi was in a constant state of suppression and then still could fight all these battles also if he wasn’t I’ll he’d be able to train constantly like he did as a child meaning his peak would be may higher than the cannon timeline. Let’s also keep in mind that even in his sick state + being blind and about to die he did better agains a peak Sanin level threat than pain did who was fresh with a home field advantage against a not fresh sanin level threat pain and itachi are not the same if itachi was healthy and serious his feats would surpass everyone in the akatsuki they almost did whilst being unhealthy and all the obito fan boys need to chill cause itachi would have packed him up with light work if healthy and packed him up with a bit more effort ill
No he wouldn’t have. Obito stomps 😂😂😂😂
Healthy or not Itachi always wins
In popularity
When in Naruto verse There's this version of itachi That's healthy?
He's not Canon at ALL
Itachi Gets destroyed by any madara
Yeah
THEY like to wank Itachi Way too Much
I DON'T KNOW They manage to do this
Lol
He's inferior to Pain and Obito
How he's gonna take madara?
I don't know itachi might beat a ems Madara with no Sharigan activated maybe
@@gameuniverse5973 😂
@@gameuniverse5973
NGL, he might be able to beat Kid Madara, if Madara has no arms, legs, is mentally nerfed and has no Sharingan
No, Itachi can beat certain versions just ems, juubi etc. Anything from war arc or when he was alive with EMS he is losing.
The intro is bare facts lol
Umm how does itachi dying and never using the yata mirror or totska blade again disprove what was already stated? Its not an anti feat and no scans are disproving or contradicting those statements.
I’m not saying he’s beating Madara because of this even I don’t think he’s beating Madara it’s just confusing.
Itachi had to mentally cripple Kakashi cuz he wasnt beating him easily any other way - base to base Kakashi should be relative to Sick Itachi and Itachi couldnt afford to have a long drug out battle in the middle of Konoha so he had to put the stick on Kakashi as fast as possible using the MS
This has to be a joke. Kakashi couldn’t even see Itachi’s handsigns or his jutsu, let alone keep up with his physical speed. All Kakashi does is talk about who Itachi is a completely different league.
@@coban3902 True... but then why would itachi waste so much chakra? plot hole I guess huh
If this is the case, this makes sense to me. Itachi was above Kakashi but I bet Itachi realized that Kakashi is smart enough to plan something until backup arrived. Even when Kakashi loses, he usually doesn’t get insta clapped. Plus Itachi was a double agent for the leaf, he wouldn’t want to kill Kakashi. If there was a drawn out battle, Itachi and Kiasme might waste too much time and fight the whole village. Tbh, I wonder if Team Itachi could have wiped the whole village at that point in the show. I want to say yes, but idk how much damage some of the cast could do in a large group.
@@coban3902 Let me teach you why youre wrong:
Kakashi clearly reacted to multiple attacks from Itachi, youre just blatantly wrong there lmao -- as for the handsigns, it was portrayed in the same way as Kakashi vs Zabuza, and while Kakashi had the advantage, Zabuza and Kakashi were still relative -- just like in this situation (base to base as i said) -- Moreover, this consistency is further demonstrated through Kakashi's second encounter w Itachi as well as base Itachis performance against sub-sannin characters like Sasuke -- so what is the basis for what youre saying?? Even Kakashis own statements are consistent w his habit of downplaying his own skill as directly stated in the databook as well as confirmed in the Kakashi novel which was recently canonized.
If you have any better counter arguments, Id love to hear them
At first I thought this was stupid but when I really thought it about it makes a lot of sense. Base Itachi doesn’t actually have any real feats that I can think of. Even 3 tomoe. I think his best might be the genjutsu on Orochimaru after he slaughtered his clan and wasn’t sick (so majorly amped). Even then, Kakashi outside of a broken genjutsu like Tsukuyomi has shown immense resistance to genjutsu, more so then Orochimaru.
All of Itachis great feats stem from his Mangekyou or EdoMangekyou which is basically EMS-lite caliber lol. Kakashi definitely couldn’t get dropped instantly without Tsukuyomi hax. Actually I don’t think Kakashi would even get hit by Amaterasu, Itachis best forms to deal with him would be Susanoo and Tsukuyomi. Base Itachi would 100% win, but it would be substantially longer. You’re 100% right in that this is the only time in the series that Kakashi just gets wasted, and he fought two of the stronger paths of pain.
Seth is really nick briz 😂😂 makes me wonder what carthu is gonna say
Did six delete his videos with Seth?
@@CoolOkay_ looks like Seth did the same except the ones where six and swag are on together
Itachi just can't win.
Kid Naruto has a better chance at beating Pain then Healthy Itachi has at beating Madara
Hey six, will you do a collab with Mykal Davis?
Itachi is my absolute favorite Naruto character but Madara would stomp him with no difficulty
13 yo genin age itachi Kotoamatsukami , negative diff.
"You cant win againt Kotoamatsukami in a 1v1" "The Fight is over before it even begins" You dont even realize you lost" You are a mindless puppet, thinking acting by your own will" It is unbreakable it dont even need eye contact, shisui used it against us, without my byakugan I wouldnt even be able to see him" 4 Databook, Manga, shinden. Written by kishimoto.
"bUt mADaRa " Madara fanboys headcanons how Koto dont work against him
Itachi wouldnt even beat the leaders of The akatsuki,
Against any madara he would be washed as a kid
Lol
Bro i argue healthy itachi can't even beat the five Kage or sage mode Minato yet to think he stand a chance with even ems Madara ni kyuubi is ludicrous
No, he take them one on one since they were stated relative to each other
@@Dayz671why would they wait to be dropped one by one?
Could u do an old argument of jiraya vs itachi of any form? I’m pretty sure a lot of peeps know who would actually win, but the anime community has such stubborn simps for certain characters
Ong I can't believe people keep insisting that itachi beats jiraya. Its so annoying.
@@Momiji_Inuybashiri fr lol
Js if you need a guest for that first podcast I got a story on how my only interaction with Seth got me jumped in my own house and now live with PTSD as a 23 year old because of it. Unless the podcast is about anime then shit I’m not the best but I can try lmao
Edo Tensei Itachi is a LOT STRONGER than the real ALIVE EMS ITACHI.
Edo tensei Itachi has UNLIMITED CHAKRA and he can create legs on his susanoo or even achieve Perfect Susanoo.
Which means he's fodder against his little brother.
Let alone on EMS MADARA.
Edos don't have infinite chakra, Edo Minato literally ran out of chakra as he said himslef and Edo Hashirama literally said to Sasuke to take what is left of chakra he has after Madara absorbed his senjutsu (after getting his body back) because rinnegan rods are preventing him from getting more chakra which means they simply have heavily accelerated regeneration of chakra and not actually infinite reserves
lol the twisted logic you commented put me in a very confusing genjustu lol (yes I realize what I said was cringe). have a like
I just feel like Madara no diffs but definitely happy to hear your analysis
Should have been sage mode Kabuto vs ems Madara instead
@@gameuniverse5973Madara no diffs him , bro had Perfect susano with just the ems and access to the nine tails
@@TaIIer edos would help and sage mode Kabuto is slippery
Ehhh, idk because if we go off the fight between edo madara and hashirama the edo nerf is apparently more substantial than the renagan buff. I still think itachi loses even if he doesn't get stat checked in base because he definitely gets stat checked by the perfect susano. The only argument you could make for madara losing is the classic 'madara likes to mess around' route where itachi ends it before the perfect susano comes out. Here's the thing, madara knows a lot of lore, he might just recognize the totsuba blade and know too to screw around too much.
I like to think that an Itachi who never got the Goku heart disease, kept training, obtained EMS, etc., probably would have eventually surpassed Madara for the simple reason that his growth rate was outlandishly ludicrous compared to anyone else we've seen, including Madara. Itachi's peak was when he joined Akatsuki and dominated Orochimaru, was considered a rival to Obito, etc., wasn't sick yet, but he was only 13. Obito was 23. Sasuke at 13 (in part one) was considered a crazy talented genius but was not even remotely on the level of any of those guys. Obviously this is just sort of "what-if" style headcanon but interesting to think about.
itachi growth rate wasn't compare to madara he's just naturally more gifted than itachi he's from the sage of six path bloodline
Madara: Would you like these clones to use susanoo?
Would you like for me to use my eternal mangekyo Sharigan or not
@@gameuniverse5973whose?
@@karag4487 Madara since when did itachi have a EMS ???????
What is that ost at 4:46 that background song is fucking clean
People often forget that the susanoo can be absorbed by the rinnegan as kaguya absorbed sasuke's in thier fight with her rinnesharingan. So it's highly likely madara could/would just absorb it. If not than he could just almighty push and deactivate/nullify it.
I thinks she just physically broke the Susanoo not absorbed it.
Yo Six do you think Madara's Uchiha Fan negate AMATERATSU?
The only real way any version of Itachi we know of could beat Madara in a 1v1 is if he goes up against final valley EMS Madara or maybe fully revived Madara, then he probably has a chance and I even believe this with a hypothetical healthy Itachi
Here I'm just gonna mention every big thing that each character has access too use in that version
F/V EMS Madara
+ Perfect Susanoo
+ Nine Tails summon
+ Majestic Attire Susanoo
Edo Madara
+ Wood Clones x25
+ Wood Release in general
+ Perfect Susanoo
+ Rinnegan
+ Being an Edo Tensei
Fully Revived Madara
+ Susanoo
+ Sage Mode
Ten Tails Madara
+ Rinnegan
+ Truth Seeker Orbs
+ Limbo Clones
+ Should still have Wood Release
+ Should still have Perfect Susanoo
+ Six Paths Sage Mode
+ Six Paths Senjutsu
Two Rinnegan Madara
+ Everything Juubidara had
+ Two Rinnegan
Three Eyed Madara
+ Both Rinnegan
+ Rinnesharingan
+ Infinite Tsukuyomi
Itachi
+ Totsuka Blade
+ Tsukuyomi
If Sasuke was able too break out of Tsukuyomi, than Madara who is a master of the sharingan should be able to resist/break out of it too, Itachi has the Armored Susanoo, compare that too the size of Madara's Perfect Susanoo and tell me how Itachi is even suppose to reach Madara's body when he's in the head?
What would happen if healthy bloodlusted Itachi goes up against shinobi alliance and 5 kage including pre six path naruto?
nothing itachi will get smashed by ohnokis jinton in one second and there's no way weakling susano or yata crap can do anything against it lolz it was capable to destroy 25 susanos of madara which are far stronger than itachis weakling 2 meter susano lolz so chill boy itachi is nowhere at madara's level he is just weakling fodder . even sasuke ain't rival to madara with itachis eyes . do you really think that only itachi knows how to use genjuutsu/tsukiomi ? sasuke used it against raikage's people but he never used it against anyone else ? why do you think ? cuz its useless . and itachis taijutsu is nowhere at madara's level he is just brat and weakling healthy sasuke was capable to use amaterasu 5 times and that five times amaterasu will not kill everyone and itachi will be off chakra then he gest demolished by shinobsi cuz is weakling fodder . and onhoki is capabel to unseal everyone from genjutsu like madara did to raikage but one second and it was unsealed by ohnoki . so genjuitsu crap will not work anyone who's stronger its like hey sasuke put all tailed beasts into genjutsu but he never tried it to against naruto ? and why do you think ? cuz its useless naruto is too strong for the weakling genjutsus its not infinity tsukiomi it can be avoided . genjutsu crap works against weakling fodders not against powerful people
very cool