OMG - if you offered classes, I am SO IN. Listening to you is always a delight (and I want you to earn a livable wage from everything you share with us).
I think Wolsey’s Ordinances were written primarily to remove his personal enemies from easy access to the king, he had to dress these up somehow to make them palatable to the king. It’s interesting that the insults always directed at Wolsey and Cromwell by the nobles were that they were “low-born”, they couldn’t fault their actual work for the king. One of the very few things about Henry VIII was that he was willing to employ the men of greatest merit, not just the highest-born, for the work to run the state. I don’t otherwise have a very good opinion of Henry.
Oh, I think it was more than that on Henry's part. He enjoyed watching these vulgar commoners trolling the high and mighty. After all, precisely because they were low born there was zero risk of them being a threat to him, which you could not yet say of the barons.
I’d love to hear more about how Cromwell felt about Wolsey’s fall. Having witnessed his patron’s downfall, he must have been able to read the signs when he himself fell out of favor. On a totally unrelated note, everything I know about queen Mary I is from an English perspective. How did the people of Spain feel about her as their queen?? On the one hand, she was a “daughter of Spain” being the grandchild of the infamous Ferdinand & Isabella. On the other hand, I don’t think she ever set foot on Spanish soil? I’d love to see a video on the historical Spanish perspective of Mary’s reign.
I always find the stories of Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Cranmer and Thomas Cromwell to be among the most fascinating stories of the reign of Henry VIII. These weren't the usual suspects of the period and they had such an enormous impact on Henry, on England and on history.
I have always been slightly aghast at the rapid downfall of Wolsey, and then, Cromwell. Humble backgrounds, meteoric rises that held considerable power. How, then, were they so trusting of Henry? Surely they knew what went on around them. Duplicity and feints are always “the highest science of the court,”wrote Corneille 2 centuries later. I have 23:56 always wanted to have the answers to all of the questions that you pose. Another video triumph, Dr. Kat!!!
I think both Wolsey and Cromwell suffered from the same problem-they were much too confident in their ability to outsmart the nobles and in Henry’s friendship. When you get to the top, there’s nowhere to go but down so they clearly knew threats existed. For both of them, they always managed to wriggle out of danger with their wits and Henry’s favor. When they kept coming out in top, they started to think they were invincible-they saw the threats coming, but assumed they could beg Henry’s forgiveness, remind him of their good service, and come out unscathed. And they always did, until they became overconfident and blind to Henry’s shift in attitude. When they finally realized, it was too late. Their letters and appeals to Henry for help at their end always seemed shocked and desperate to me-they clearly thought it couldn’t happen to them.
I think you're exactly right. That whole court was the epitome of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". And with the quick rise of both, it sometimes feels like they weren't given time to really learn the intricacies of just who they were dealing with & adapt to his whims. Just, "here ya go- he's your problem now!"
You might be right about Wolsey. Cromwell’s fall is rather bewildering. I am pretty sure Cromwell understood the risk very well, but he could not have anticipated the King’s reaction to Anne of Cleves would result in the king throwing him to the wolves, particularly when Anne so quickly agreed to an annulment.
There's also the fact that nobody was safe from Henry's wrath, really. Not his close advisors, nor his friends, not even his own family. Wolsey may not have known, but Cromwell should have known better, as he was there to witness the downfall of Wolsey, Thomas More, and Anne Boleyn (as well as the appalling way in which Henry treated Katherine of Aragon and their daughter Mary).
Loved this video!💯 My guess is that Wolsey had known Henry VIII when the latter was just a boy, and then an inexperienced young king, and that he felt that he’d always have a special hold over Henry as an older, wiser man. Didn’t Thomas More say, early on in Henry’s reign, that it would be unwise ever to let the lion (Henry) know his own strength? I think that Henry was a quick study, and learned his strength early on indeed, and, as you say, was quite happy to have the factions fight each other.
American author, Jack London, often wrote about the lethality of a poor imagination. I think Wolsey suffered from a poor imagination. He couldn’t imagine a day might come when he could no longer keep Henry and the Council under control. When it happened, I’m sure he was dumbfounded.
Having a good imagination can make you both a coward and a survivor. I speak both from experience and observation. A good imagination curses you with the ability to see what the outcome of a course of action will be. For instance if I put a match to that string thing this whole building will explode and kill everybody in it. Do I go ahead and become a forever fated national hero but dead or do I run away,invent a good cover story and live a long life. To choose the first option in that circumstance is incredibly brave,or incredibly stupid.
I don't know if there's already a video on this topic, but I would be interested in learning more about the court factions, since they're also mentioned here. Which families were allied with which, which families were rivals and what were their ideologies (I get they didn't have ideologies in the modern sense, but still they must have supported some policies, at least on religion). Thinking about Henry's dead wives, it seems to me there was more to it than just Henry being tyrannical, but there were others with an interest they should fall. We know Cromwell had a hand in the downfall of Anne Boleyn and they did argue over what to do with the monastery money (give it to the King vs invest in education, so they did have some policy goals) and that someone left a note to Henry informing him about Katherine Howard's past. So, I'm wondering, who were these groups and what did they stand for (beyond accruing titles for themselves and their friends).
I think factions probably changed minute to minute in a historical sense. But it would be interesting to see this covered. I feel like the war of the roses basically started because nobility factions got to crazy. It would be cool to compare factions to the reign of different Tudor monarchs. Like what did it look like pre Tudor from Edward V to Richard III and how it changed when Henry VII established his reign. I would be interested to see how many families lasted through Henry VIII to Elizabeth
@@tartnouveau3652 I was actually checking this 2 days ago and the families seem to be the same... and I mean the same including to this day. There are still Seymours living (e.g. John Seymour, 19th Duke of Somerset, he's 70 years old now) and the Howards are still around (Greville Howard is a Conservative Lord... apparently he supported Boris Johnson and Liz Truss), but their power/influence waxed and waned over time. You mention Elizabeth, the Howards were there as well... Charles Howard was the Lord Admiral during the conflict with the Spanish, during her reign. Edward Seymour... the Lord Protector's son... he was there... in prison for a while for marrying Katherine Grey in secret, but he was there, Earl of Hartford. So, many of these families are still around and even their descendants (maybe through women the names might be different, but there still are people around who are their direct descendants, I noticed these families tended to have a lot of children... 4-7-9 kids would be something normal).
Good topic. Especially because they change their name when they received or inherited a title. Cromwell did what was expected of him about Anna Boleyn. They had to get rid of her so he had to do that. They always left the dirty chores to people who weren't from "nobel" families. I think the only goal they had in mind was power. More money, more possessions and above all a lot of power
The cases of Wolsey and Cromwell demonstrate just how arbitrary and capricious Henry could be, even when he was relatively young and still sound of mind. Neither servant did anything that in any way ran contrary to the King's wishes. Their only "crimes" were that they failed in their tasks, despite their strenuous efforts to serve the crown well. Wolsey and Cromwell were loyal but, in matters of great importance, ultimately ineffective. They didn't deserve their fate. Henry was vainly influenced by the enemies of Wolsey and Cromwell, and that alone accounts for the king's unjust treatment of his high-placed officials.
I always find it Amazing that in courses of Tudor History That a rare few Take the time to bring forth the Actual inner workings of the Court. This is the First time that I have heard that there were set limits of the inner Chambers and for the access of the King and his Queens...I had always assumed that only Favoritism was the factor..
I think Wolsey ended up having a lucky break. I think he thought he’d done so much for Henry that he was safe. Never, he overestimated himself and underestimated Henry. Once he built Hampton court his days were numbered even if Henry himself didn’t quite know it yet. It would be really interesting to know if anything was wring with Henry. He did seem to change after that accident. Or the pain from that ulcer drove him mad. His medical treatment for it would drive anyone nuts. Thank you again Dr Kat, you never let anyone down with your videos. 🪶 📜 👑 🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
I suspect that he was a bit of a jerk before the accident. But yeah, that kind of thing can drive a person mad. So I guess I can have a tiny bit of sympathy for him? Hmm, that might take some work.
Wolsey's greatest shortcoming was that he was not one of the nobles. He simply did what Henry VIII wanted and with his intelligence he succeeded to a great extent. Whether he was right or wrong with his rules, it didn't matter to those "above him". One of his descent who had climbed so high. Someone who, in the eyes of the lords, undoubtedly belonged in the pigsty. That person had to disappear. 📜🖌️
"Someone who, in the eyes of the lords, undoubtedly belonged in the pigsty." I strongly suspect that Henry saw that as part of Wolsey's (and Cromwell's) attraction. Henry enjoyed trolling these upper class nitwits.
Wolsey’s avarice and vanity were his downfall. When you are building palaces and amassing wealth, equal to or greater than the monarch you are serving, your comeuppance is assured. 🏰💷📜
Harkonnen's comment in the Dune miniseries slightly distorted come to mind, 'don't get bigger than the boss unless you intend to (and are able to) replace him'.
Think about office politics now; there's often someone who assumes their relationship with the boss means they're protected from all possible repercussions - and how often are they proved wrong. Wolsey may have been cunning, and educated, but maybe not quite as self-aware as he should have been?
Cardinal Wolsey was a fascinating person to learn about. I think he really had no personal allegiances except what would suit his own interests. That he was one to go with whoever and whatever would keep him alive and suit his ambitions and Wolsey overreached himself in the end. 🛡⚔📜🏰🏹🍺🍷
I always wonder where the assumption that Wolsey and Cromwell did not foresee their downfall comes from. I think they did - they were both intelligent and had informants everywhere. However, once the tide starts to turn there may simply not be a way to escape it in time. Former allies see it too and switch sides, communication too slow or intercepted, and so on. I think we likely do not know the full extent of what both of them tried to do to change their fate. As for these ordinances, I think the King wanted a more manageable number of advisors and more control and oversight, hence the micromanagement. I suspect Wolsey knew it would not increase his popularity, but as it was likely the wish of the King, it might not have been possible to refuse, so he tried to use it to his advantage. That is entirely speculative of course and perhaps it was Wolsey's idea to begin with, but in my mind, he is someone who thought along the lines of "Keep your friends close..." and factions scheming where he could not see them would have been worse...
I agree! I always love to start my weekends with the newest Dr. Kat video!!! Am so looking forward to hearing when the website will go live. I guarantee that I will view that regularly.
Yay! Sounds like your SquareSpace will be a wonderful site to visit. (And tbh, I am looking forward to the "Ritual Purposes" merch, lol. Thank you for including that in the mix 😄 ). Sooooo, not being even remotely well-versed in Tudor history before I started watching your videos, I have to confess... when I heard "Expulsion of the Minions", I could not help but picture hundreds of small yellow beings dressed in denim pouring out of the Privy Chamber. 🤣😂 And technically, Henry VIII could be pretty despicable. 🤔 Anyway, to my mind, as other comments have noted, Thomas Wolsey became over-confident about the nature of his position. Thank you so much for providing such a fascinating, in-depth view of the political machinations of this era. 🪶🗞👑🏰
I'm so happy Fire Mountain is an advertiser on your channel. I shop with them, and they are absolutely wonderful. Love your content! Infotainment is my favorite genre!
The very best part of my Fridays. Dr.Kat kickin' the weekend off with a fantastically informative and fascinating and entertaining video. 🎉😎✨️🎊🎈 Henry's court was moth to the flame. ❤️🔥It appears anyone and everyone were not safe of being burned if they grew too close to the throne. 👑 Ol' Harry would lift them up to exalted heights, only to drop them as soon as they were no longer of use to him. I think Wolsey fancied himself too highly and thought that he was indispensable to his king. He was dangerously naïve perhaps or grew too cocky. 🤔 "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die."-Game of Thrones 🌹🕯📖🪶📜🏰👑🏰📜🪶📖🕯🌹
Your videos are always so fascinating! I'll often click on them because it's you, but I don't care at all about the topic, so I'll be thinking maybe I'll just watch a bit. But then I can't stop listening, and all of a sudden I'm captivated by whatever medieval rando you happen to be talking about. I'm glad you're doing RUclips, so everyone can listen. Like Jackson Crawford is always saying, this knowledge shouldn't be hidden in ivory towers of academia. Keep up the good work!
✍️📚 I think King Henry was extremely displeased to find Hampton Court, so magnificent and the hospitality so lavish that it represented too much power in the hands of one man. Also, when Henry's divorce did not go to plan, Henry blamed Wolsey and was encouraged by the Howard faction at court.
My basis for my comment is not history but experience with autocratic bosses. I think it's possible that Wolsey did only what Henry wanted him to do, but Henry didn't want the blame, so he ordered Wolsey to proclaim the unpopular rules for courtiers using his own name and authority, giving Henry plausible deniability. I also think Henry was that sort of person, always looking for someone else to blame.
As a young king, Henry VIII eventually saw the control levied on him by Wolsey as representative of the Catholic Church controlling his rule from afar in Italy. Seeing his authority challenged was a huge thing and must have been somewhat overbearing, when his personal choices were being affected. A young Henry allowed his ear to be bent by the minister. Maybe initially it was for good intentions but ultimately it backfired. When Henry felt that this was an excerise to challenge his right as a chosen one of God he sought to settle the matter. Of course, the riches gathered by the church and taxes leveid on the country's subjects as maybe it was seen as monarchs right to recieve, not the church to line it pockets, to Henry it looked like the church has too much power, and then it became personal for Henry when his peers were being demoted and his love choices interfered with , Henry, who was a notorious over spender, often bankrupting those who entertained the king, also wars cost money , so he saw a way through. He became infatuated in an earlier heraldic English kingship age in a more traditional pagan early Christian ruler ship model where the king ruled, but here this distopia he found himself in with the church over powering his rule was another cause for resentment, he felt this was making the church more important than him as heir to the throne. He wanted more freedom and found Worsley a meddler in his affairs. Wolsey was trying probably to avoid the break from Rome that he was partly to blame for challenging and trying to control the kings affairs, ultimately over stepping his position, and not helped if he was of a less noble birth.
Like many high-flying people, Wolsey thought his knowledge and intelligence was indispensable to the King. I’m sure the King also fed this delusion. But in the end, Wolsey’s ego got the better of him, I’m sure he liked to flaunt his power and influence based on a deep inferiority complex from his background which many of us can relate to.
I would love to learn more about your take on Shakespeare! I have been fascinated by Will since "Julius Ceasar" in high school, when I realized there was a great story under the difficult language. Being a teenager, I attempted to update "Julius Ceasar's" language so teens could understand it.
I always have thought of Cardinal Wolsey as Henry VII fixer. Part clergy, part bruiser. When Henry VIII came to the throne Wolsey was experienced in the craft of running a country and useful for the new King to use, and rewarded accordingly. Popping off to the north when things were not going Wolsey's way, seems smart. If Wolsey was not ill and had not died, I think he would have been able to get out from under the charge of treason.
👑⚔️🪶Wolsey, like everyone else in Henry's court, VASTLY underestimated how dangerous it was to play games with the Tudors. People kept trying to treat them like they were JUST normal people, and the Tudors were Not. Hind sight being 20/20, i don't think anyone, especially in those early days, could see that they were being ruled by the unstoppable and ruthless -- by rulers who did truly wield power. And when a Tudor tired of your shenanigans, they got rid of you, permanently.
👑🍷📜. One vote for Shakespeare. And how about creating your own emojis? For patreons of course. I always love the Hampton Court story with Henry essentially saying’love what you’ve done with the place. I’ll have it.’ Thank you for all you do.
Wolsey's downfall happened because he rose too far for someone of his background. He "got away with it" for a while since he was a Cardinal. But eventually he just "wore out his welcome".📖📜✒
social glyph📜 Seems like anyone who ever took Henry VIII for granted regretted it. However, there were also those who did NOT take him for granted but nevertheless suffered at his hands. "Some may say I ruined their lives," as Horrible Histories puts it, applies to more than his wives!
As a Business coach , I have always been interested in the politics of groups. this video has opened up my eyes to another layer of what might be going on in the workplace. Thank you for such an fascinating video.
✒I finally found an emoji that matches your request!! I think Wolsey thought he could manage Henry, like he always did, but I think he underestimated him as well as whatever influence that had taken over Henry.
Access to the King brings with it, monetary rewards, power, and adulation by those below your station who see you as a pathway to those same benefits for themselves. It is a zero sum game. If you totally and solely control access, your share is 100%. If there are two of you with the King's ear, now your share is only 50%. You will fight like hell to get to and remain at the top of the heap (the innermost circle). It's analogous to an addiction to a powerful drug. You want more, you crave more, to the extent that you are incapable to seeing that train coming down the track which is about to squash you like a bug. 🚂
loved this video - this was a key issue in my A Level History a few years back, and I'd heard of the Eltham Ordinances as a large factor, but never really understood what they were. This was very helpful
Not sure people understand that once a Catholic ALWAYS a Catholic. That he rose to the heights he did is astonishing. He clearly had political acumen but a clash was ultimately inevitable.
Have you ever thought of doing a video on the background of James VI & I? I’m thinking of his ancestors in the Scottish monarchy, James I to V of Scots?
I think the answer is simple: they were just like him. We see Henry as tyrannical, not just for what he did to his wives, but the thousands of people he had executed throughout his reign. And you'd wonder: why didn't anyone stand up to him? And the only answer I can think of is: they were fine with it. Consider his wives, someone left him a note to tell him about Katherine Howard. They wanted her gone. Think of the wives as the tip of icebergs, with them came a whole bunch of people associated with their families placed in positions of power which made other people jealous. When Jane Seymour became queen, suddenly the court was drowning in Seymours. When Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard were queens, the Boleyns and Howards were riding high. They wanted these things to happen. They wanted chopped heads, hoping they'd rise over someone's dead body. We think of Henry as horrible, and he was, but we shouldn't assume the nobles at his court were any better. Plotting, scheming, betraying were the order of the day. So, the 2 dead wives, I'd think of them not just the victims of Henry, but of entire political groups/families hoping to bring one queen down and replace her with one from their own faction. And they didn't shy away from murder. BTW... even their whole politeness, the curtsies and bows... it was less about being nice and more about: "if you don't bow to me, I'll pull a knife on you." Nobles weren't as much educated, elegant people, but more like mobsters.
It couldn't have been easy for any member of the court to thrive for very long given they were serving a psychopathic king whose mood and favor could turn on a dime, and whose expectations were generally unrealistic.
I’ve found that those who are strongly ego driven tend to think they are more clever than they are and they regard those around them as more ignorant and stupid than they are. This combination ends up giving them a false sense of value, worth and a feeling of superiority. Their accomplishments make them feel indispensable and no one was indispensable in Henry’s court.
I really loved the way this video also helped to examine the structure of court, and how noble service from courtiers could be rendered there. I always find it a fascinating subject and I’m always interested to hear more about the day to day of a courtiers life and responsibilities 📜
Wonderful talk, thank you! 💗I have always been fascinated by the people surrounding Henry VIII, his parents, all of the Thomases and specifically the Cardinal. Listening to you I remembered something unrelated but eerily fascinating. I was re-reading James Kaplan's two-tome biography of Frank Sinatra, who was so famous at some points in time that he became very loved and admired and also rich, powerful and consequently tremendously influential. He was also allegedly very mercurial, and would instantly ban people from his life after any kind of real or imagined slight. Those same people were often taken by surprise and no matter how close or how long they had been by his side, all of a sudden they simply didn't exist to him anymore. He could also ruin someone's career if he wanted. So when I was listening to you and wondering about the objective reasons for Henry to get rid of his collaborators, Sinatra came to mind, and I thought - though we can find several logical reasons for the king's behavior if we analyze the situation, maybe deep down Henry's tyrannical streak was more impulsive and narcissistic, less influenced by goals or reasoning, more paranoid than logical, making him the ultimate tyrant template...
Thank you once again very much, Dr. Kat! I really think both Wolsey and Cromwell both underestimated the nobility and overestimated themselves. Henry VIII was many things, but not a fool. He made his alliances as they were advantageous to himself. As you state, as long as courtiers fought amongst themselves, they would not fight the King. And Henry knew that. Manipulation was not beyond him. As went for many, when you had severely let him down and/or couldn't help him attain his goals, you were out of the royal favour. And without doubt, the nobility hating these two commoners, will have influenced Henry to oust them.
I love listening to you discuss subjects with thought sense and enthusiasm. Always look forward to your posts❤. Simply wonderful for myself and new minds 😊
I am incredibly excited about the possibilities of merchandise for this awesome channel!! I would totally rock a tshirt or keychain. I love the idea of a magnet too. ❤❤❤
Would his position at court have stayed at its dizzying height if Henry IX had lived into adulthood? I know that seems like a stupid question. But I guess I'm wondering if something else would have pulled him away from Henry VIII's favor had Henry's and Catherine's firstborn had lived to ee adulthood
I kind of think he’s like lots of people you just think you’re kind of invincible…some how that won’t happen to you …which kind of goes along with maybe having too much trust in the king , thinking his relationship with Henry was strong and he was safe.
Dr. Kat- I picked up Mark Holinshed's work that postulates Wolsey is responsible for the break with Rome because he had ambitions to become Pope for which he was politically used and discarded by Charles V and revenge dictated separating Henry from his Hapsbergs family members (Katherine of Aragon and their daughter Mary). Holinshed argues that Wolsey is double dealing politically throughout Europe and Henry never catches on until Wolsey doesn't declare the marriage to Katherine annulled in an effort to delay Henry from remarrying (Anne Boleyn) in the hopes of marrying Henry off in a nice, political, truly French alliance (and not just some English girl who speaks French). This would really vindicate the Boleyns in many respects, and really bolsters the idea that Henry truly married for love. Does this argument hold up? Why have I never heard this before?
I need to know more about Wolsey to really say for sure, but from what you're indicating, maybe he knew what was up, and perhaps had "an accident" on his way back to the summons. But, you're right -- the king would be a fool to not understand or take advantage of, court intrigue. It would be interesting to find out if King Henry ever read Machiavelli. 📝💪
Henry NEEDED Wolsey to do the busy work of actually running his kingdom while he played. As Henry got older and started stamping his feet about Anne, Henry thought he could get his mates to do the job…. No doubt Wolsey saw some of this BUT was so used to being the pivot point of the court that he just knew no other way of doing things. And as a CHURCH leader (the church WAS the only way that lower born people could legitimately rise), that Henry, as the ardent Defender of the Faith, would never go against his own country’s highest prelate…. Henry getting rid of Wolsey was probably the first international sign that he would be willing to renounce the Pope et al.
Wolsey didn’t deliver the divorce. Give Henry what he wants or else, More, Cromwell, Ann Boleyn for just a start, all failed Henry in their special way and all got the chop. But Wolsey also didn’t go to York and keep his mouth shut. He wrote to queen Catherine and to king Francis. That stirred up the trouble for him If you escape Henry, keep ur mouth shut!
Well,I'll comment today for the ratings. Maybe Wolsey felt extra confidence because he was a Cardinal,just a step down from being Pope and the Catholic church was still THE multi-national corporation.Or maybe he felt that feeling of being on an express train to your fate that you cannot derail or stop. Henry was a much better people manager than we give him credit for if your idea is right. He wasn't afraid to use physical violence if necessary ie chop off heads but he could use subtle methods to,and as you suggest Dr Kat,he did get all through subsequent history a lot of his mistakes or blunders blamed on his advisors. Of course Henry wasn't so great at managing his wives,he should have stuck with the first one who loved him. If he had we'd still be Catholic and European,and probably speaking Spanish which is a beautiful language🐃👑🗝️
I don’t think Shakespeare would garnish much interest. For your regular channel, I wish you’d do a video on James Hepburn and his association with Mary, Queen of Scots. Thank you for your interesting, and reliable, videos.
Despite the notoriety of a king who almost had as many wives as the days of the week, I view Henry as a terrible monarch; his court almost a lion's lair with the king roving the palaces looking to devour the next victim and with the backdrop of the Tower menacingly in the distance. Absolute monarchy, with Parliament eagerly doing his bidding, the Tudor court was a hotbed of intrigue that has no equal before or since. His celebrity baffles me, as many seem to see him as a jolly rogue at Renaissance Festivals and such. As the penultimate Catholic king, he could not have possibly imagined the tumultuous struggles that would engulf the monarchy and Parliament in the succeeding decades. Thought experiment: what if Catherine Howard have given Henry another son, one who would survive Edward VI? Love your videos, Dr Kat!
Wolsey was acting as Chief of Staff, just as that position is in the US. General Kelley tried to reign in President Trump’s chaotic “court.” I doubt he was blind to the social ramifications as he was very intelligent. I think he was just trying to create order. I still don’t understand why Wolsey was dismissed so quickly and why he was charged with treason. Most historians say simply that is was on account that he couldn’t get the annulment from the Pope. But the story has to be more complicated than that. Would you please do an in-depth video on Wolsey’s fall and his charge of treason? 👑
Wolsey’s star ⭐️🌠crashed 🎇because this cardinal forgot himself, and began worshipping the idols of man and wealth💷! And he must have been very insecure, and thus he became desperate to protect his position. But he stepped on too many, and they were ready and willing to take him down, when he lost Henry’s favor.
I'm certain there is a special place in Hades for the egoist and greedy nobility who 'served' during Henry VIII's court. (Actually, for all individuals who misuse their positions!)
If the theory that states Henry VIII control everyone who climbed too far, the reason why Wolsey was thrown down. My question then, how would Wolsey dealing with matters can hold unimportant statue position? Having very private matters of the king, makes such person important and therefore hated by the king.. Impossible game of court.
📜 One parchment; blowed if I can find a quill. Thanks for interesting video - I am intrigued by social mobility in Tudor England, which this touched on.
🖋🏰 sorry! Could not find a quill! I think that Wolsey was very clever and certainly cunning, but that perhaps his arrogance blinded him to the fact the young malleable king was no longer as young or malleable as he once was. The fact that he made his palace at Hampton Court beautiful enough to rival any of Henry's shows his lack of discretion. However he was clever to give it to his King to check any anger or jealousy. I'm not sure anyone should feel too secure in Henry VIII's affections. Just ask his wives. Love your videos Kat!
I think Wolsey overestimated his own power and underestimated King Henry's ego.
Completely agree.
Yet another wonderful and insightful video! 🪶 ✍️ and ⚡️ (power)
Oh, yes--BIG TIME!! 💯
Truer words have never been spoken. I think you are so spot-on with your observation.
Absolutely!
OMG - if you offered classes, I am SO IN. Listening to you is always a delight (and I want you to earn a livable wage from everything you share with us).
I think Wolsey’s Ordinances were written primarily to remove his personal enemies from easy access to the king, he had to dress these up somehow to make them palatable to the king. It’s interesting that the insults always directed at Wolsey and Cromwell by the nobles were that they were “low-born”, they couldn’t fault their actual work for the king. One of the very few things about Henry VIII was that he was willing to employ the men of greatest merit, not just the highest-born, for the work to run the state. I don’t otherwise have a very good opinion of Henry.
Oh, I think it was more than that on Henry's part. He enjoyed watching these vulgar commoners trolling the high and mighty. After all, precisely because they were low born there was zero risk of them being a threat to him, which you could not yet say of the barons.
I’d love to hear more about how Cromwell felt about Wolsey’s fall. Having witnessed his patron’s downfall, he must have been able to read the signs when he himself fell out of favor.
On a totally unrelated note, everything I know about queen Mary I is from an English perspective. How did the people of Spain feel about her as their queen?? On the one hand, she was a “daughter of Spain” being the grandchild of the infamous Ferdinand & Isabella. On the other hand, I don’t think she ever set foot on Spanish soil? I’d love to see a video on the historical Spanish perspective of Mary’s reign.
@garyallen8824he did read them he paid off and warned his servants
I always find the stories of Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Cranmer and Thomas Cromwell to be among the most fascinating stories of the reign of Henry VIII. These weren't the usual suspects of the period and they had such an enormous impact on Henry, on England and on history.
I think one of those "Cromwell"s was meant to be a "Wolsey"?
@@starrywizdom Indeed, yes lol. I was a ltitle tired when I made that post. :)
Well said! 😊
I have always been slightly aghast at the rapid downfall of Wolsey, and then, Cromwell. Humble backgrounds, meteoric rises that held considerable power. How, then, were they so trusting of Henry? Surely they knew what went on around them. Duplicity and feints are always “the highest science of the court,”wrote Corneille 2 centuries later. I have 23:56 always wanted to have the answers to all of the questions that you pose. Another video triumph, Dr. Kat!!!
I think both Wolsey and Cromwell suffered from the same problem-they were much too confident in their ability to outsmart the nobles and in Henry’s friendship. When you get to the top, there’s nowhere to go but down so they clearly knew threats existed. For both of them, they always managed to wriggle out of danger with their wits and Henry’s favor. When they kept coming out in top, they started to think they were invincible-they saw the threats coming, but assumed they could beg Henry’s forgiveness, remind him of their good service, and come out unscathed. And they always did, until they became overconfident and blind to Henry’s shift in attitude. When they finally realized, it was too late. Their letters and appeals to Henry for help at their end always seemed shocked and desperate to me-they clearly thought it couldn’t happen to them.
I think you're exactly right. That whole court was the epitome of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". And with the quick rise of both, it sometimes feels like they weren't given time to really learn the intricacies of just who they were dealing with & adapt to his whims. Just, "here ya go- he's your problem now!"
You might be right about Wolsey. Cromwell’s fall is rather bewildering. I am pretty sure Cromwell understood the risk very well, but he could not have anticipated the King’s reaction to Anne of Cleves would result in the king throwing him to the wolves, particularly when Anne so quickly agreed to an annulment.
There's also the fact that nobody was safe from Henry's wrath, really. Not his close advisors, nor his friends, not even his own family. Wolsey may not have known, but Cromwell should have known better, as he was there to witness the downfall of Wolsey, Thomas More, and Anne Boleyn (as well as the appalling way in which Henry treated Katherine of Aragon and their daughter Mary).
Hubris. It's a thing, and not only in Greek and Shakespearean tragedies!
Loved this video!💯
My guess is that Wolsey had known Henry VIII when the latter was just a boy, and then an inexperienced young king, and that he felt that he’d always have a special hold over Henry as an older, wiser man.
Didn’t Thomas More say, early on in Henry’s reign, that it would be unwise ever to let the lion (Henry) know his own strength?
I think that Henry was a quick study, and learned his strength early on indeed, and, as you say, was quite happy to have the factions fight each other.
American author, Jack London, often wrote about the lethality of a poor imagination. I think Wolsey suffered from a poor imagination. He couldn’t imagine a day might come when he could no longer keep Henry and the Council under control. When it happened, I’m sure he was dumbfounded.
I think that is a very accurate way to explain what occurred with Wolsey.
Having a good imagination can make you both a coward and a survivor. I speak both from experience and observation. A good imagination curses you with the ability to see what the outcome of a course of action will be. For instance if I put a match to that string thing this whole building will explode and kill everybody in it. Do I go ahead and become a forever fated national hero but dead or do I run away,invent a good cover story and live a long life. To choose the first option in that circumstance is incredibly brave,or incredibly stupid.
Two narcissists. One seat…
I don't know if there's already a video on this topic, but I would be interested in learning more about the court factions, since they're also mentioned here. Which families were allied with which, which families were rivals and what were their ideologies (I get they didn't have ideologies in the modern sense, but still they must have supported some policies, at least on religion). Thinking about Henry's dead wives, it seems to me there was more to it than just Henry being tyrannical, but there were others with an interest they should fall. We know Cromwell had a hand in the downfall of Anne Boleyn and they did argue over what to do with the monastery money (give it to the King vs invest in education, so they did have some policy goals) and that someone left a note to Henry informing him about Katherine Howard's past. So, I'm wondering, who were these groups and what did they stand for (beyond accruing titles for themselves and their friends).
I think factions probably changed minute to minute in a historical sense. But it would be interesting to see this covered. I feel like the war of the roses basically started because nobility factions got to crazy. It would be cool to compare factions to the reign of different Tudor monarchs. Like what did it look like pre Tudor from Edward V to Richard III and how it changed when Henry VII established his reign. I would be interested to see how many families lasted through Henry VIII to Elizabeth
@@tartnouveau3652 I was actually checking this 2 days ago and the families seem to be the same... and I mean the same including to this day. There are still Seymours living (e.g. John Seymour, 19th Duke of Somerset, he's 70 years old now) and the Howards are still around (Greville Howard is a Conservative Lord... apparently he supported Boris Johnson and Liz Truss), but their power/influence waxed and waned over time. You mention Elizabeth, the Howards were there as well... Charles Howard was the Lord Admiral during the conflict with the Spanish, during her reign. Edward Seymour... the Lord Protector's son... he was there... in prison for a while for marrying Katherine Grey in secret, but he was there, Earl of Hartford. So, many of these families are still around and even their descendants (maybe through women the names might be different, but there still are people around who are their direct descendants, I noticed these families tended to have a lot of children... 4-7-9 kids would be something normal).
What a great topic! I too would be interested in learning more on the subject. ❤
Good topic. Especially because they change their name when they received or inherited a title.
Cromwell did what was expected of him about Anna Boleyn. They had to get rid of her so he had to do that. They always left the dirty chores to people who weren't from "nobel" families.
I think the only goal they had in mind was power. More money, more possessions and above all a lot of power
It would be an interesting topic
The cases of Wolsey and Cromwell demonstrate just how arbitrary and capricious Henry could be, even when he was relatively young and still sound of mind. Neither servant did anything that in any way ran contrary to the King's wishes. Their only "crimes" were that they failed in their tasks, despite their strenuous efforts to serve the crown well. Wolsey and Cromwell were loyal but, in matters of great importance, ultimately ineffective. They didn't deserve their fate. Henry was vainly influenced by the enemies of Wolsey and Cromwell, and that alone accounts for the king's unjust treatment of his high-placed officials.
I always find it Amazing that in courses of Tudor History That a rare few Take the time to bring forth the Actual inner workings of the Court. This is the First time that I have heard that there were set limits of the inner Chambers and for the access of the King and his Queens...I had always assumed that only Favoritism was the factor..
I think Wolsey ended up having a lucky break. I think he thought he’d done so much for Henry that he was safe. Never, he overestimated himself and underestimated Henry. Once he built Hampton court his days were numbered even if Henry himself didn’t quite know it yet. It would be really interesting to know if anything was wring with Henry. He did seem to change after that accident. Or the pain from that ulcer drove him mad. His medical treatment for it would drive anyone nuts. Thank you again Dr Kat, you never let anyone down with your videos. 🪶 📜 👑 🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺
I suspect that he was a bit of a jerk before the accident. But yeah, that kind of thing can drive a person mad. So I guess I can have a tiny bit of sympathy for him? Hmm, that might take some work.
Wolsey's greatest shortcoming was that he was not one of the nobles. He simply did what Henry VIII wanted and with his intelligence he succeeded to a great extent. Whether he was right or wrong with his rules, it didn't matter to those "above him". One of his descent who had climbed so high. Someone who, in the eyes of the lords, undoubtedly belonged in the pigsty. That person had to disappear.
📜🖌️
Henry XIII? Are you seeing the future? 😅
@@sauvignonblanc0 Oh sorry. You are right. Had to translate from my language, is difficult enough 😂😂😂
"Someone who, in the eyes of the lords, undoubtedly belonged in the pigsty." I strongly suspect that Henry saw that as part of Wolsey's (and Cromwell's) attraction. Henry enjoyed trolling these upper class nitwits.
Wolsey’s avarice and vanity were his downfall. When you are building palaces and amassing wealth, equal to or greater than the monarch you are serving, your comeuppance is assured. 🏰💷📜
Harkonnen's comment in the Dune miniseries slightly distorted come to mind, 'don't get bigger than the boss unless you intend to (and are able to) replace him'.
Think about office politics now; there's often someone who assumes their relationship with the boss means they're protected from all possible repercussions - and how often are they proved wrong. Wolsey may have been cunning, and educated, but maybe not quite as self-aware as he should have been?
Cardinal Wolsey was a fascinating person to learn about. I think he really had no personal allegiances except what would suit his own interests. That he was one to go with whoever and whatever would keep him alive and suit his ambitions and Wolsey overreached himself in the end. 🛡⚔📜🏰🏹🍺🍷
Being an outsider was likely both a strength and a weakness, but it had the disadvantage of all the factions having a grievance against him.
I always wonder where the assumption that Wolsey and Cromwell did not foresee their downfall comes from. I think they did - they were both intelligent and had informants everywhere. However, once the tide starts to turn there may simply not be a way to escape it in time. Former allies see it too and switch sides, communication too slow or intercepted, and so on. I think we likely do not know the full extent of what both of them tried to do to change their fate. As for these ordinances, I think the King wanted a more manageable number of advisors and more control and oversight, hence the micromanagement. I suspect Wolsey knew it would not increase his popularity, but as it was likely the wish of the King, it might not have been possible to refuse, so he tried to use it to his advantage. That is entirely speculative of course and perhaps it was Wolsey's idea to begin with, but in my mind, he is someone who thought along the lines of "Keep your friends close..." and factions scheming where he could not see them would have been worse...
The best part of my Fridays! I always look forward to the topic and Dr. Kat’s presentation! 🎉🎉
I agree! I always love to start my weekends with the newest Dr. Kat video!!! Am so looking forward to hearing when the website will go live. I guarantee that I will view that regularly.
Right?! We are kicking off our weekend on the good foot. ❤
Yay! Sounds like your SquareSpace will be a wonderful site to visit. (And tbh, I am looking forward to the "Ritual Purposes" merch, lol. Thank you for including that in the mix 😄 ). Sooooo, not being even remotely well-versed in Tudor history before I started watching your videos, I have to confess... when I heard "Expulsion of the Minions", I could not help but picture hundreds of small yellow beings dressed in denim pouring out of the Privy Chamber. 🤣😂 And technically, Henry VIII could be pretty despicable. 🤔 Anyway, to my mind, as other comments have noted, Thomas Wolsey became over-confident about the nature of his position. Thank you so much for providing such a fascinating, in-depth view of the political machinations of this era. 🪶🗞👑🏰
😂minions!
I'm so happy Fire Mountain is an advertiser on your channel. I shop with them, and they are absolutely wonderful. Love your content! Infotainment is my favorite genre!
Love fire mountain
The very best part of my Fridays. Dr.Kat kickin' the weekend off with a fantastically informative and fascinating and entertaining video. 🎉😎✨️🎊🎈
Henry's court was moth to the flame. ❤️🔥It appears anyone and everyone were not safe of being burned if they grew too close to the throne. 👑 Ol' Harry would lift them up to exalted heights, only to drop them as soon as they were no longer of use to him. I think Wolsey fancied himself too highly and thought that he was indispensable to his king. He was dangerously naïve perhaps or grew too cocky. 🤔
"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die."-Game of Thrones
🌹🕯📖🪶📜🏰👑🏰📜🪶📖🕯🌹
I always believed Wolsey truly believed he was untouchable. So untouchable, he couldn't perceive his own downfall.
Your videos are so informative, accurate and addictive. ❤❤❤
Your videos are always so fascinating! I'll often click on them because it's you, but I don't care at all about the topic, so I'll be thinking maybe I'll just watch a bit. But then I can't stop listening, and all of a sudden I'm captivated by whatever medieval rando you happen to be talking about. I'm glad you're doing RUclips, so everyone can listen. Like Jackson Crawford is always saying, this knowledge shouldn't be hidden in ivory towers of academia. Keep up the good work!
✍️📚 I think King Henry was extremely displeased to find Hampton Court, so magnificent and the hospitality so lavish that it represented too much power in the hands of one man. Also, when Henry's divorce did not go to plan, Henry blamed Wolsey and was encouraged by the Howard faction at court.
“Put not your trust in princes.” Especially one 0:15 as volatile as Henry VIII. 💣💣💣💣💣💣
My basis for my comment is not history but experience with autocratic bosses. I think it's possible that Wolsey did only what Henry wanted him to do, but Henry didn't want the blame, so he ordered Wolsey to proclaim the unpopular rules for courtiers using his own name and authority, giving Henry plausible deniability. I also think Henry was that sort of person, always looking for someone else to blame.
I totally agree and think the same applies to Thomas Cromwell's downfall.
As a young king, Henry VIII eventually saw the control levied on him by Wolsey as representative of the Catholic Church controlling his rule from afar in Italy. Seeing his authority challenged was a huge thing and must have been somewhat overbearing, when his personal choices were being affected. A young Henry allowed his ear to be bent by the minister. Maybe initially it was for good intentions but ultimately it backfired. When Henry felt that this was an excerise to challenge his right as a chosen one of God he sought to settle the matter. Of course, the riches gathered by the church and taxes leveid on the country's subjects as maybe it was seen as monarchs right to recieve, not the church to line it pockets, to Henry it looked like the church has too much power, and then it became personal for Henry when his peers were being demoted and his love choices interfered with , Henry, who was a notorious over spender, often bankrupting those who entertained the king, also wars cost money , so he saw a way through. He became infatuated in an earlier heraldic English kingship age in a more traditional pagan early Christian ruler ship model where the king ruled, but here this distopia he found himself in with the church over powering his rule was another cause for resentment, he felt this was making the church more important than him as heir to the throne. He wanted more freedom and found Worsley a meddler in his affairs. Wolsey was trying probably to avoid the break from Rome that he was partly to blame for challenging and trying to control the kings affairs, ultimately over stepping his position, and not helped if he was of a less noble birth.
I think Wolsey's rules about behavior at court are interesting when you compare them to Louis XIV rules a century later
Like many high-flying people, Wolsey thought his knowledge and intelligence was indispensable to the King. I’m sure the King also fed this delusion. But in the end, Wolsey’s ego got the better of him, I’m sure he liked to flaunt his power and influence based on a deep inferiority complex from his background which many of us can relate to.
📜🏴 Love your channel. So insightful and pleasant. ❤
I would love to learn more about your take on Shakespeare! I have been fascinated by Will since "Julius Ceasar" in high school, when I realized there was a great story under the difficult language. Being a teenager, I attempted to update "Julius Ceasar's" language so teens could understand it.
It might have just been plain arrogance and the belief he was above all things.
👑How human it is to think "That would never happen to me."
I always have thought of Cardinal Wolsey as Henry VII fixer. Part clergy, part bruiser. When Henry VIII came to the throne Wolsey was experienced in the craft of running a country and useful for the new King to use, and rewarded accordingly. Popping off to the north when things were not going Wolsey's way, seems smart. If Wolsey was not ill and had not died, I think he would have been able to get out from under the charge of treason.
👑⚔️🪶Wolsey, like everyone else in Henry's court, VASTLY underestimated how dangerous it was to play games with the Tudors.
People kept trying to treat them like they were JUST normal people, and the Tudors were Not.
Hind sight being 20/20, i don't think anyone, especially in those early days, could see that they were being ruled by the unstoppable and ruthless -- by rulers who did truly wield power. And when a Tudor tired of your shenanigans, they got rid of you, permanently.
Like a middle manager his power went to his head only with a longer fall
👑🍷📜. One vote for Shakespeare. And how about creating your own emojis? For patreons of course. I always love the Hampton Court story with Henry essentially saying’love what you’ve done with the place. I’ll have it.’ Thank you for all you do.
🙇🏼♀️🏹🕯️⚔️ A bow, cross bow, candle and coat of arms. Not sure about that last one.
Your videos rock, dear Doctor. Hope this helps
Narcissist, believed he was untouchable
I'm excited for your new website! Thank you for sharing your knowledge; I really enjoy your videos
These things continue to happen all around us in politics, business and even in a family structure. We need to spend more time studying the past.
I would absolutely LOVE a course on Shakespeare! Please!! I'm interested in any courses you'd offer; I adore your videos.
Wolsey's downfall happened because he rose too far for someone of his background. He "got away with it" for a while since he was a Cardinal. But eventually he just "wore out his welcome".📖📜✒
Love your videos. Always educational. Thank you for taking the time. ❤️📜
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Seems like anyone who ever took Henry VIII for granted regretted it. However, there were also those who did NOT take him for granted but nevertheless suffered at his hands. "Some may say I ruined their lives," as Horrible Histories puts it, applies to more than his wives!
As a Business coach , I have always been interested in the politics of groups. this video has opened up my eyes to another layer of what might be going on in the workplace. Thank you for such an fascinating video.
✒I finally found an emoji that matches your request!! I think Wolsey thought he could manage Henry, like he always did, but I think he underestimated him as well as whatever influence that had taken over Henry.
Access to the King brings with it, monetary rewards, power, and adulation by those below your station who see you as a pathway to those same benefits for themselves. It is a zero sum game. If you totally and solely control access, your share is 100%. If there are two of you with the King's ear, now your share is only 50%. You will fight like hell to get to and remain at the top of the heap (the innermost circle). It's analogous to an addiction to a powerful drug. You want more, you crave more, to the extent that you are incapable to seeing that train coming down the track which is about to squash you like a bug. 🚂
The weekend's finally here when I see Dr. Kat's newest video! Also: count me in for a Ritual Purposes drinking vessel!! 🤣
loved this video - this was a key issue in my A Level History a few years back, and I'd heard of the Eltham Ordinances as a large factor, but never really understood what they were. This was very helpful
Not sure people understand that once a Catholic ALWAYS a Catholic. That he rose to the heights he did is astonishing. He clearly had political acumen but a clash was ultimately inevitable.
Have you ever thought of doing a video on the background of James VI & I? I’m thinking of his ancestors in the Scottish monarchy, James I to V of Scots?
I can’t imagine why any courtier wouldn’t stay as far away as possible from the court of Henry VIII!😟
I think the answer is simple: they were just like him. We see Henry as tyrannical, not just for what he did to his wives, but the thousands of people he had executed throughout his reign. And you'd wonder: why didn't anyone stand up to him? And the only answer I can think of is: they were fine with it. Consider his wives, someone left him a note to tell him about Katherine Howard. They wanted her gone. Think of the wives as the tip of icebergs, with them came a whole bunch of people associated with their families placed in positions of power which made other people jealous. When Jane Seymour became queen, suddenly the court was drowning in Seymours. When Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard were queens, the Boleyns and Howards were riding high. They wanted these things to happen. They wanted chopped heads, hoping they'd rise over someone's dead body. We think of Henry as horrible, and he was, but we shouldn't assume the nobles at his court were any better. Plotting, scheming, betraying were the order of the day. So, the 2 dead wives, I'd think of them not just the victims of Henry, but of entire political groups/families hoping to bring one queen down and replace her with one from their own faction. And they didn't shy away from murder. BTW... even their whole politeness, the curtsies and bows... it was less about being nice and more about: "if you don't bow to me, I'll pull a knife on you." Nobles weren't as much educated, elegant people, but more like mobsters.
Hubris? They knew some version of history…
It couldn't have been easy for any member of the court to thrive for very long given they were serving a psychopathic king whose mood and favor could turn on a dime, and whose expectations were generally unrealistic.
I’ve found that those who are strongly ego driven tend to think they are more clever than they are and they regard those around them as more ignorant and stupid than they are. This combination ends up giving them a false sense of value, worth and a feeling of superiority. Their accomplishments make them feel indispensable and no one was indispensable in Henry’s court.
I really loved the way this video also helped to examine the structure of court, and how noble service from courtiers could be rendered there. I always find it a fascinating subject and I’m always interested to hear more about the day to day of a courtiers life and responsibilities 📜
Very cool video. Ive never been too interested in Wolsey (mostly due to disliking his character in the tudors) but im glad i watched. Great video!!
Wonderful talk, thank you! 💗I have always been fascinated by the people surrounding Henry VIII, his parents, all of the Thomases and specifically the Cardinal. Listening to you I remembered something unrelated but eerily fascinating. I was re-reading James
Kaplan's two-tome biography of Frank Sinatra, who was so famous at some points in time that he became very loved and admired and also rich, powerful and consequently tremendously influential. He was also allegedly very mercurial, and would instantly ban people from his life after any kind of real or imagined slight. Those same people were often taken by surprise and no matter how close or how long they had been by his side, all of a sudden they simply didn't exist to him anymore. He could also ruin someone's career if he wanted. So when I was listening to you and wondering about the objective reasons for Henry to get rid of his collaborators, Sinatra came to mind, and I thought - though we can find several logical reasons for the king's behavior if we analyze the situation, maybe deep down Henry's tyrannical streak was more impulsive and narcissistic, less influenced by goals or reasoning, more paranoid than logical, making him the ultimate tyrant template...
Thank you once again very much, Dr. Kat! I really think both Wolsey and Cromwell both underestimated the nobility and overestimated themselves. Henry VIII was many things, but not a fool. He made his alliances as they were advantageous to himself. As you state, as long as courtiers fought amongst themselves, they would not fight the King. And Henry knew that. Manipulation was not beyond him. As went for many, when you had severely let him down and/or couldn't help him attain his goals, you were out of the royal favour. And without doubt, the nobility hating these two commoners, will have influenced Henry to oust them.
I love listening to you discuss subjects with thought sense and enthusiasm. Always look forward to your posts❤. Simply wonderful for myself and new minds 😊
Thank you 😊
Clearly your website should have a section called "K-March Merch" :)
Wolsey aka Faux Rex 🚫 👑 📜🪶📏
I am incredibly excited about the possibilities of merchandise for this awesome channel!! I would totally rock a tshirt or keychain. I love the idea of a magnet too. ❤❤❤
Louis lV kept the various factions at Court at each other's throats. Hitler did the same and used Martin Bormann to orchestrate it.
Thanks so much for the very interesting deep dive into Wolsey.
I so appreciate you enlightening us. Thank you!
I would definitely be interested in courses that you offer. ❤❤❤
Thanks! Love your work !! Jeffrey Newcomb
Another great video - love hearing this versus historical fiction versions.
The downfall of most men of ambition seems to be pride or arrogance.📜
Count me in for any course you might care to teach! I’ll be there, with bells on.
Would his position at court have stayed at its dizzying height if Henry IX had lived into adulthood?
I know that seems like a stupid question. But I guess I'm wondering if something else would have pulled him away from Henry VIII's favor had Henry's and Catherine's firstborn had lived to ee adulthood
❤ love your talks. i love the tudors. elizabeth is my hero. she was so smart.
This was so interesting. Thank you again for the eloquence of your video and stories and always bringing to them to life.❤
🧐Your video’s ignite my thought process about why people, places and things did what they did in the past. Thank you for such interesting topics.
Your videos are always such a delight ~ thank you Dr Kat ❤
I sometimes shop in Eltham so am amused that the Eltham Ordinances were of a domestic nature! 😆
I kind of think he’s like lots of people you just think you’re kind of invincible…some how that won’t happen to you …which kind of goes along with maybe having too much trust in the king , thinking his relationship with Henry was strong and he was safe.
Dr. Kat- I picked up Mark Holinshed's work that postulates Wolsey is responsible for the break with Rome because he had ambitions to become Pope for which he was politically used and discarded by Charles V and revenge dictated separating Henry from his Hapsbergs family members (Katherine of Aragon and their daughter Mary). Holinshed argues that Wolsey is double dealing politically throughout Europe and Henry never catches on until Wolsey doesn't declare the marriage to Katherine annulled in an effort to delay Henry from remarrying (Anne Boleyn) in the hopes of marrying Henry off in a nice, political, truly French alliance (and not just some English girl who speaks French). This would really vindicate the Boleyns in many respects, and really bolsters the idea that Henry truly married for love. Does this argument hold up? Why have I never heard this before?
I don't know much about emojis, let's give it a go.😀😃😄😁😆😅🤣😂🙃😛😋🥲😙😚😗😘😍🥰😇😜🤪😝🤑🤫🤨😐😑🤤😪😔🤥😮💨😬😣😞😓😩😫🥱😤😠🤬😈😺🤖👾👽👺👹💩👿
Really enjoyed the video! Shame I was late for the premiere though
Looking forward to the merch
You are👸of history yet again.
Fantastic, Dr. KAT!!! Henry VIII is one of my absolute favorites. All of your videos are an Anglophile’s dream come true. Thank you so much. 🤴🏼🪶📜
I need to know more about Wolsey to really say for sure, but from what you're indicating, maybe he knew what was up, and perhaps had "an accident" on his way back to the summons. But, you're right -- the king would be a fool to not understand or take advantage of, court intrigue. It would be interesting to find out if King Henry ever read Machiavelli. 📝💪
Henry NEEDED Wolsey to do the busy work of actually running his kingdom while he played. As Henry got older and started stamping his feet about Anne, Henry thought he could get his mates to do the job…. No doubt Wolsey saw some of this BUT was so used to being the pivot point of the court that he just knew no other way of doing things. And as a CHURCH leader (the church WAS the only way that lower born people could legitimately rise), that Henry, as the ardent Defender of the Faith, would never go against his own country’s highest prelate…. Henry getting rid of Wolsey was probably the first international sign that he would be willing to renounce the Pope et al.
Wolsey didn’t deliver the divorce. Give Henry what he wants or else, More, Cromwell, Ann Boleyn for just a start, all failed Henry in their special way and all got the chop. But Wolsey also didn’t go to York and keep his mouth shut. He wrote to queen Catherine and to king Francis. That stirred up the trouble for him If you escape Henry, keep ur mouth shut!
Well,I'll comment today for the ratings. Maybe Wolsey felt extra confidence because he was a Cardinal,just a step down from being Pope and the Catholic church was still THE multi-national corporation.Or maybe he felt that feeling of being on an express train to your fate that you cannot derail or stop. Henry was a much better people manager than we give him credit for if your idea is right. He wasn't afraid to use physical violence if necessary ie chop off heads but he could use subtle methods to,and as you suggest Dr Kat,he did get all through subsequent history a lot of his mistakes or blunders blamed on his advisors.
Of course Henry wasn't so great at managing his wives,he should have stuck with the first one who loved him. If he had we'd still be Catholic and European,and probably speaking Spanish which is a beautiful language🐃👑🗝️
I agree with Mark Youngman 7267. Wolsey's ego took him down. You're always good, but this one was wonderful.📜📜📜
I don’t think Shakespeare would garnish much interest. For your regular channel, I wish you’d do a video on James Hepburn and his association with Mary, Queen of Scots. Thank you for your interesting, and reliable, videos.
Despite the notoriety of a king who almost had as many wives as the days of the week, I view Henry as a terrible monarch; his court almost a lion's lair with the king roving the palaces looking to devour the next victim and with the backdrop of the Tower menacingly in the distance. Absolute monarchy, with Parliament eagerly doing his bidding, the Tudor court was a hotbed of intrigue that has no equal before or since. His celebrity baffles me, as many seem to see him as a jolly rogue at Renaissance Festivals and such. As the penultimate Catholic king, he could not have possibly imagined the tumultuous struggles that would engulf the monarchy and Parliament in the succeeding decades. Thought experiment: what if Catherine Howard have given Henry another son, one who would survive Edward VI? Love your videos, Dr Kat!
Great Chain of Being,Royal (special) blood, Divine Right of Kings! They made it all up. Propaganda is not new.
Wolsey was acting as Chief of Staff, just as that position is in the US. General Kelley tried to reign in President Trump’s chaotic “court.” I doubt he was blind to the social ramifications as he was very intelligent. I think he was just trying to create order.
I still don’t understand why Wolsey was dismissed so quickly and why he was charged with treason. Most historians say simply that is was on account that he couldn’t get the annulment from the Pope. But the story has to be more complicated than that. Would you please do an in-depth video on Wolsey’s fall and his charge of treason? 👑
Wolsey’s star ⭐️🌠crashed 🎇because this cardinal forgot himself, and began worshipping the idols of man and wealth💷! And he must have been very insecure, and thus he became desperate to protect his position. But he stepped on too many, and they were ready and willing to take him down, when he lost Henry’s favor.
I'm certain there is a special place in Hades for the egoist and greedy nobility who 'served' during Henry VIII's court. (Actually, for all individuals who misuse their positions!)
If the theory that states Henry VIII control everyone who climbed too far, the reason why Wolsey was thrown down. My question then, how would Wolsey dealing with matters can hold unimportant statue position? Having very private matters of the king, makes such person important and therefore hated by the king..
Impossible game of court.
📜 One parchment; blowed if I can find a quill. Thanks for interesting video - I am intrigued by social mobility in Tudor England, which this touched on.
🖋🏰 sorry! Could not find a quill! I think that Wolsey was very clever and certainly cunning, but that perhaps his arrogance blinded him to the fact the young malleable king was no longer as young or malleable as he once was. The fact that he made his palace at Hampton Court beautiful enough to rival any of Henry's shows his lack of discretion. However he was clever to give it to his King to check any anger or jealousy. I'm not sure anyone should feel too secure in Henry VIII's affections. Just ask his wives. Love your videos Kat!
Been binging this channel over the past week!