It just seems so...tacky to just mimic a luxury brand, even if it is an excellent product. As usual, your videos are well made and well-narrated. Thanks for your hard work, Arthur.
There are people who buy these watches to try to fool other people into thinking they’re something they are not. I think that’s what you meant. That motive seems tacky to me too. Style is a strange thing. Sometimes, a certain combination of colours, shapes and proportions just look right and any change just subtracts from the appeal. Personally, I applaud people who purchase reasonable priced (for them) products because they like the style and quality and could care less what luxury brand they might resemble. If other people jump to the wrong conclusion, it’s their problem.
I just joined the phase one preorders for the Ocean Rover II last night. I bought an Ocean Rover a little over a year ago and absolutely loved it. It was my favorite watch. After 6-8 months, I sort of fell out of the watch hobby. I was gifted an Apple Watch by my father in law and it was a shiny new toy so I basically started wearing that every day. I found myself only ever wearing a proper watch for things like going out to dinners or going to church. A friend of mine made a very good offer to buy my Ocean Rover since it was in superb condition and I decided to sell it to him. After a couple of months, I got bored with the Apple Watch and started wearing proper watches every day again. By this point, I was really kicking myself for selling my favorite watch but I still had some cool pieces to wear so I wasn’t in a huge rush to spend $1,200 on a new one (by this time, the discounts were no longer in effect). Finally, a few days ago, I heard some rumblings of an Ocean Rover II and got really excited. I contacted John and he told me all about the new watch and what to do as far as placing an order. I can’t wait to get my hands on the new and improved ceramic version. I’ve got some very high expectations. I agree with all of the changes they’ve made and I think it’s going to be an excellent watch.
I think this is a very nice homage. Would I buy it? No. Not because it is a homage, I don't care for the Submariner. My preference for a dive watch is Doxa. If you are going to take the time to make these videos and we take the time to answer, I hope you don't throw another tirade and block comments. Regardless of your defense in that other video, Seiko has some shoddy quality control.
Hello Chris:Doxa makes some fine watches. I especially like the SUB 200 130TH ANNIVERSARY. And I would also agree that Doxa is a more authentic brand perhaps, given the recent controversy and lack of transparency of Ginault.re: Seiko - I don't believe I "threw a tirade" I was trying to rationally and reasonably state my position and I either was not getting thru (at best) or my words were turned against me (at worst). After 3 tries, I gave up - life is too short to try to reason continually with those who don't want to be reasoned with.As usual, I appreciate you watching my videos. I put a lot of work into them and try my best to be factual and reasonable.
To be honest I would prob get one but I'm happy with my tissel and thy are more than halfway to a tudor black bay 58 or gmt I've reviewed a few on my chanel and they are superb.
Dear Mr. Leyenberger, Your video was a very thoughtful treatment of a central thrust of the micro and movement which is to offer the following value proposition: most of the functionality and characteristics of more expensive watches at a fraction of the price. It is perhaps reminiscent of what went on in the personal computer industry in the 1980s and 1990s with clone computers save for the possibility that there are more status concerns with watches than there were with personal computers. At the discounted price you paid for your watch, it represents good value but, as you noted, at full price the value was not as self evident given other alternatives available at the higher price point. I am much less conversant than you are with the Seiko catalogue and the catalogues of other companies like Citizen but there seems to be a question as to whether or not the microbrands make sense when there are some very technologically interesting and well finished Seiko and Citizen products. You are better able to fend for yourself than most of us when it comes to assessing the quality and worth of a particular micro brand watch. Because I am less so, I have come to appreciate Mark from Long Island Watches as an exemplary gatekeeper of less expensive watches (but not usually microbrands) worth considering. You note the hype associated with your watch and the lack of transparency about identifying the movement. While there are straight forward and straight talking microbrands, some of the microbrands focus more on hyperbole than on a more down to earth presentation. While this is written with my Omega Ploprof 1200m on my wrist, I would not hesitate to use Long Island Watches as a guide to interesting less expensive dive watches if my budget dictated being more financially conservative in my tastes.While I have no questions about your integrity, there seems to be some lack of openness about conflicts of interest among some figures in the watch video and watch podcast worlds. As a collector and watch enthusiast, your tastes run the gamut but my take aways from your Rover video and your Seiko video work is this: (1) one does not have to spend a lot of money to get a worthwhile watch; and (2) one has a great many interesting choices at every conceivable range of price points. Thank you for continuing your extremely valuable work. Best regards, Howard
Well thought out analysis, Howard. I too appreciate the openness of LIW and have bought many watches from Marc. While I am not as familiar with Citizen I am very familiar with Seiko and your are right, they offer many affordable models in a variety of styles. I own quite a few Seikos ;) And I agree with your final two points. There are too many watch snobs who don't understand or value this. Thx for watching.
Nice intro music! I don't get the whole homage thing. If it's not a fake or breaks patent law. Every product and industry does this. Why is it a big deal with Rolex dive watches? Many other watch designs are copied by many watch companies. Doesn't seem to be holding Rolex back.
very true, Leigh. While I appreciate the quality and appeal of a Submariner, my Orient, Ginault and Tudor satisfy my Diver watch itch at 3 different price points.
Is Lexus an hommage car of a Mercedes, especially in the 1990's? No, Lexus kicked Mercedes ass building a better car that lasted longer. Welcome the Ginault Ocean Rover.... Made in the USA!
Except its not actually made in the USA nor is it better in any technical regard to a rolex and is allegedly the front of an illegal rolex counterfeiter company with very strong forensic evidence to back up this long time held suspicion.
I like your attitude. If a watch is what it says it is, there is no deceit. Let’s face it, some combinations of size, shapes, colours, proportions etc. just look right the first time you see them, no need to even see the brand. To think that only the originator is allowed to use that formula is a bit much. It puts them in a monopoly position forever? Rolex pricing and sales practices have put them outside the average persons means. So I say, fine, but don’t tell people they can’t own another, reasonably priced brand that has a similar look and won’t put them in debt to own. As long as you don’t try to impress upon people a lie that the less expensive watch is something other than what it is, I could care less. And if you do try to fool people, I just feel sorry for your lack of self respect and respect for others.
there is no doubt that Ginault is an excellent watch, even though not many people will pay for their full retail pricing. However, I really have a bad experience with the company regards to their warranty repair (I bought two from them, and both had movement accuracy problem) and communication. After having my watches for 3 month in their facility, they returned them back to me pretending that they have fixed them which they did not at all. When I asked them for repair report, Ginault just stop communicating with me completely and since they do not even provide any customer service phone # anywhere, I could not even contact them further. so I just sold my Ginault and bought MONTA and Steinhart instead. Just really bad customer service.
@@riseuplight how so? Where are their American factories? Where are their American owners? Who is Charles Ginault? Why is Ginault connected to Rolex counterfeiter Thomas Caddell? Who is Tsunch Chi? Before you defend the brand, ask yourself what do you know about the company. You know absolutely nothing, it's all smoke and mirrors.
It just seems so...tacky to just mimic a luxury brand, even if it is an excellent product.
As usual, your videos are well made and well-narrated. Thanks for your hard work, Arthur.
I get it, Hanknova. Aside from the calsp which is an out an out copy, at least the overall watch is a mash up of design elements. Thx for watching.
There are people who buy these watches to try to fool other people into thinking they’re something they are not. I think that’s what you meant. That motive seems tacky to me too.
Style is a strange thing. Sometimes, a certain combination of colours, shapes and proportions just look right and any change just subtracts from the appeal. Personally, I applaud people who purchase reasonable priced (for them) products because they like the style and quality and could care less what luxury brand they might resemble. If other people jump to the wrong conclusion, it’s their problem.
I just joined the phase one preorders for the Ocean Rover II last night. I bought an Ocean Rover a little over a year ago and absolutely loved it. It was my favorite watch.
After 6-8 months, I sort of fell out of the watch hobby. I was gifted an Apple Watch by my father in law and it was a shiny new toy so I basically started wearing that every day. I found myself only ever wearing a proper watch for things like going out to dinners or going to church.
A friend of mine made a very good offer to buy my Ocean Rover since it was in superb condition and I decided to sell it to him. After a couple of months, I got bored with the Apple Watch and started wearing proper watches every day again. By this point, I was really kicking myself for selling my favorite watch but I still had some cool pieces to wear so I wasn’t in a huge rush to spend $1,200 on a new one (by this time, the discounts were no longer in effect).
Finally, a few days ago, I heard some rumblings of an Ocean Rover II and got really excited. I contacted John and he told me all about the new watch and what to do as far as placing an order. I can’t wait to get my hands on the new and improved ceramic version. I’ve got some very high expectations. I agree with all of the changes they’ve made and I think it’s going to be an excellent watch.
Great story Kyle. I know there is some controversy about the OR but I still like it and wear it often.
These are awesome time piece
Surprisingly, yes.
I think this is a very nice homage. Would I buy it? No. Not because it is a homage, I don't care for the Submariner. My preference for a dive watch is Doxa. If you are going to take the time to make these videos and we take the time to answer, I hope you don't throw another tirade and block comments. Regardless of your defense in that other video, Seiko has some shoddy quality control.
Hello Chris:Doxa makes some fine watches. I especially like the SUB 200 130TH ANNIVERSARY. And I would also agree that Doxa is a more authentic brand perhaps, given the recent controversy and lack of transparency of Ginault.re: Seiko - I don't believe I "threw a tirade" I was trying to rationally and reasonably state my position and I either was not getting thru (at best) or my words were turned against me (at worst). After 3 tries, I gave up - life is too short to try to reason continually with those who don't want to be reasoned with.As usual, I appreciate you watching my videos. I put a lot of work into them and try my best to be factual and reasonable.
Got mine early this year. Use it as my daily office wear. The glidelock clasp is genius & like you this was a major factor in choosing this watch.
Good move, Goth. Glad you are enjoying it!
Like the updated information
Thx TOMH. I still enjoy it.
To be honest I would prob get one but I'm happy with my tissel and thy are more than halfway to a tudor black bay 58 or gmt I've reviewed a few on my chanel and they are superb.
I agree. The BB is a great watch.
Dear Mr. Leyenberger, Your video was a very thoughtful treatment of a central thrust of the micro and movement which is to offer the following value proposition: most of the functionality and characteristics of more expensive watches at a fraction of the price. It is perhaps reminiscent of what went on in the personal computer industry in the 1980s and 1990s with clone computers save for the possibility that there are more status concerns with watches than there were with personal computers. At the discounted price you paid for your watch, it represents good value but, as you noted, at full price the value was not as self evident given other alternatives available at the higher price point. I am much less conversant than you are with the Seiko catalogue and the catalogues of other companies like Citizen but there seems to be a question as to whether or not the microbrands make sense when there are some very technologically interesting and well finished Seiko and Citizen products. You are better able to fend for yourself than most of us when it comes to assessing the quality and worth of a particular micro brand watch. Because I am less so, I have come to appreciate Mark from Long Island Watches as an exemplary gatekeeper of less expensive watches (but not usually microbrands) worth considering. You note the hype associated with your watch and the lack of transparency about identifying the movement. While there are straight forward and straight talking microbrands, some of the microbrands focus more on hyperbole than on a more down to earth presentation. While this is written with my Omega Ploprof 1200m on my wrist, I would not hesitate to use Long Island Watches as a guide to interesting less expensive dive watches if my budget dictated being more financially conservative in my tastes.While I have no questions about your integrity, there seems to be some lack of openness about conflicts of interest among some figures in the watch video and watch podcast worlds. As a collector and watch enthusiast, your tastes run the gamut but my take aways from your Rover video and your Seiko video work is this: (1) one does not have to spend a lot of money to get a worthwhile watch; and (2) one has a great many interesting choices at every conceivable range of price points. Thank you for continuing your extremely valuable work. Best regards, Howard
Well thought out analysis, Howard. I too appreciate the openness of LIW and have bought many watches from Marc. While I am not as familiar with Citizen I am very familiar with Seiko and your are right, they offer many affordable models in a variety of styles. I own quite a few Seikos ;)
And I agree with your final two points. There are too many watch snobs who don't understand or value this.
Thx for watching.
Nice intro music! I don't get the whole homage thing. If it's not a fake or breaks patent law. Every product and industry does this. Why is it a big deal with Rolex dive watches? Many other watch designs are copied by many watch companies. Doesn't seem to be holding Rolex back.
I bought a Christopher Ward 38mm diver a couple years ago. It seems to be about the same quality as your Ginault. I got it on sale for about $600.00
very true, Leigh. While I appreciate the quality and appeal of a Submariner, my Orient, Ginault and Tudor satisfy my Diver watch itch at 3 different price points.
But i love my Tudor
Me too, Craig.
why not get this too
Is Lexus an hommage car of a Mercedes, especially in the 1990's? No, Lexus kicked Mercedes ass building a better car that lasted longer. Welcome the Ginault Ocean Rover.... Made in the USA!
Good analogy, John.
Thx for watching.
Except its not actually made in the USA nor is it better in any technical regard to a rolex and is allegedly the front of an illegal rolex counterfeiter company with very strong forensic evidence to back up this long time held suspicion.
chapman fx true, more like made in china. But who cares, still an amazing watch
I like your attitude. If a watch is what it says it is, there is no deceit. Let’s face it, some combinations of size, shapes, colours, proportions etc. just look right the first time you see them, no need to even see the brand. To think that only the originator is allowed to use that formula is a bit much. It puts them in a monopoly position forever? Rolex pricing and sales practices have put them outside the average persons means. So I say, fine, but don’t tell people they can’t own another, reasonably priced brand that has a similar look and won’t put them in debt to own. As long as you don’t try to impress upon people a lie that the less expensive watch is something other than what it is, I could care less. And if you do try to fool people, I just feel sorry for your lack of self respect and respect for others.
thx for watching
there is no doubt that Ginault is an excellent watch, even though not many people will pay for their full retail pricing. However, I really have a bad experience with the company regards to their warranty repair (I bought two from them, and both had movement accuracy problem) and communication. After having my watches for 3 month in their facility, they returned them back to me pretending that they have fixed them which they did not at all. When I asked them for repair report, Ginault just stop communicating with me completely and since they do not even provide any customer service phone # anywhere, I could not even contact them further. so I just sold my Ginault and bought MONTA and Steinhart instead. Just really bad customer service.
Sorry to hear that, Alex. There's really no excuse for that hat kind of experience. And I agree that at full price, many will not be interested.
It's not made in America, it's a Chinese Rolex counterfeiter. I will not support or buy from counterfeiters.
ok
wow wrong on so many levels
@@riseuplight how so? Where are their American factories? Where are their American owners? Who is Charles Ginault? Why is Ginault connected to Rolex counterfeiter Thomas Caddell? Who is Tsunch Chi?
Before you defend the brand, ask yourself what do you know about the company. You know absolutely nothing, it's all smoke and mirrors.