The Fibonacci Sequence and the Golden Ratio

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  • @MrKevin-ul1qp
    @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад +105

    Whoa! I just came back to this after a time away. Never thought so many people would view it. Thanks so much for your support. Maybe I should do another...

    • @Rachel-rr8mf
      @Rachel-rr8mf 4 года назад +4

      Please do if you're having fun sharing math and making vids too :) . Thank you for sharing this. im 31 but just starting to learn about golden ratios and sacred numbers. This is great and i love your presentation. The kids and the dog are cute at the end of your video 😄. I will show this to my mom too who still loves to learn new things. she's great in math as an accountant and she's 63 now but i don't think she learned this at school. You've got a new subscriber here today. Love from the Philippines 💚🌏

    • @trailtrs1
      @trailtrs1 4 года назад +4

      I found as a teacher of the Japanese art of iado (SWORP draw with katana) that all our draws, if done properly draw at a golden ratio, Fibonacci sequence.
      If done with this in mind and disciplined with training you get maximum speed and striking power which turns into maximum cutting ability and Jules of stored energy released at the 3rd keyogi (last 1/3 of the blade). This gives you maximum cutting ability.
      I first discovered it doing draws with the blade and then wondering why the ancient samari always drew the nautilus shell or waves in their art. They were hiding their secret of speed and precision in their art, as both are built on the Fibonacci sequence.

    • @jamesfarrell1116
      @jamesfarrell1116 4 года назад +3

      I love your energy
      Great video

    • @jamesjewkiller1630
      @jamesjewkiller1630 4 года назад +2

      Teslas 3 6 9 would be the perfect follow up!

    • @rocklemillion8041
      @rocklemillion8041 4 года назад +1

      Mr. Kevin couldn’t us finding these patterns in nature and art also be chocked up to humans proclivity to find pattern and meaning in things?

  • @tomwolf6353
    @tomwolf6353 4 года назад +79

    This is a perfect example on how the RUclips should be used to teach people. Great channel!

  • @krishugmukhia6022
    @krishugmukhia6022 4 года назад +23

    If this teacher could have had taught me math back in school...

  • @seamus9305
    @seamus9305 4 года назад +4

    My favorite example is in a pine branch (pitch pine is best). It grows in two spirals in Fibonacci proportion. They run in opposite directions and everywhere they cross an event happens, a pine needle grows.

  • @sofiatheone7
    @sofiatheone7 4 года назад +3

    Thanks for explaining The Golden Ratio in a simplistic way. I have known about it for some years now, but you have definitely enabled me to get a better understanding of how the patterns start to form, etc. 🙏🏽💕

  • @jacobblack4284
    @jacobblack4284 6 лет назад +35

    I LOVE this.
    Thank you for the explanation in PLAIN ENGLISH.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад

      You are most welcome! Thanks for the feedback.

  • @marcuspi999
    @marcuspi999 6 лет назад +107

    The dog was running in a Fibonacci spiral

  • @beethovensg
    @beethovensg 4 года назад +2

    Credit to your effort, it is important and fantastic. The kids are forever more intuitive for this one act alone. Great for you!

  • @prosperity.
    @prosperity. 5 лет назад +5

    How Amazing Are You!!! ♥️ Omg!! Saved!! Professors, Tutors, Textbooks, You Tube Vids... Left me clueless!!! Until You Saved the Day.. I can't thank you enough!!!! Thank you..

  • @josephtermeer5196
    @josephtermeer5196 4 года назад +4

    Thank you very much for posting this. I am studying art and have come across this rule. I never learned this in the "advanced" art classes in high school. It was not even introduced in college. I must have been in the lower federally funded school district.

  • @pantherplatform
    @pantherplatform 4 года назад +5

    _Now_ my mind is blown. I've watched countless videos on this truth but none of them explained how the Fibonacci numbers were directly related to the golden ratio.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад +1

      Thanks! I appreciate you watching.

  • @christinaabunaw1903
    @christinaabunaw1903 7 лет назад +1

    Thanks. This is just the video i needed to see. It explains this series in the simplest manner.

  • @mookth3mystro535
    @mookth3mystro535 7 лет назад +5

    the best explanation so far. thank you

  • @CARLESIUS
    @CARLESIUS 2 года назад

    The difference equation that defines the Fibonacci sequence is:
    Delta ^ 2 F + Delta F - F = 0
    Its characteristic equation is:
    r ^ 2 + r - 1 = 0
    so the roots of this quadratic equation are
    - (1 + sqrt (5)) / 2 and - (1 - sqrt (5)) / 2
    The initial conditions of this difference equation are:
    F (0) = 0 and Delta F (0) = 1 which leads to the algebreic expression for the nth term of this sequence:
    F (k) = (((1 + sqrt (5)) / 2) ^ k - ((1-sqrt (5)) / 2) ^ k) / sqrt (5)
    On the other hand, given a segment of length 1, divided into two segments of length x and (1-x), these 3 segments satisfy the golden ratio if the proportions are given:
    x / 1 = (1-x) / x
    This relationship also leads to the cadratic equation:
    x ^ 2 + x - 1 = 0
    So there is no mystery.

  • @batuhansonmez5331
    @batuhansonmez5331 2 года назад +1

    Also there is a relationship between Fibonacci Sequence and Euler’s Numbers.Please search on internet by this title “Quantum Perspective Model by Tahir Ölmez

  • @mattlast4093
    @mattlast4093 4 года назад +1

    so cool that you engage your children that way

  • @professordeb
    @professordeb Год назад

    The calipers are genius, Mr. Kevin! I may steal that! Very nice presentation.

  • @josephcampese5347
    @josephcampese5347 4 года назад +1

    @Mr. Kevin....very interesting. but I for one need some baby steps between the division (that I understand) to the graphic you drew with the spiral. what makes the spiral a 1.6 ratio? what are the different points in the different color boxes represent? can you flush that out a bit more?

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      The colors mean nothing. Just makes it easier to see. The spiral generated actually only approaches a true "golden" spiral, but the fibonacci numbers approach it more closely and more closely as I illustrated earlier. Unfortunately, the grid box demonstration doesn't yield that true ratio, and some may nitpick about that, but I thought it was an interesting illustration for my students so that they could see of numbers at play in the world.
      If you're really interested in just how the fibonacci sequence generates the spiral, a quick search on Google will give you all the detail you can handle.
      Thanks for watching!

  • @tessellatiaartilery8197
    @tessellatiaartilery8197 6 лет назад +1

    Great video. Explanation of the numbers sequence, how the ratio is 'derived' and showing visually with the graphic sections very clear. Nice activity with the calipers for seeing the ratio in nature outside too. Thanks for making and sharing this.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад +1

      Thanks for the feedback, AJ. I got the idea of building the calipers from the book "The Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe" by Michael S. Schneider

  • @ddelarosa88
    @ddelarosa88 6 лет назад +2

    Never seen it explained like that. Awesome vid. Thanks for the help/clarification

  • @oliverwenath
    @oliverwenath 4 года назад +1

    Thanks for explaining the number Phi, the golden ratio so nicely and understandable!

  • @AliceSunflower
    @AliceSunflower 4 года назад +1

    The kids finding phi on the dog is SOOO ADORABLE! Dog wasn’t having it! LOL

  • @solapowsj25
    @solapowsj25 4 года назад +5

    In fluid physics, there are 24 ones around a two, each power in an x-plane, forming a solid three with one set of fluid forces at 'c' (energy waves 🌊and fields), and the next having the graviton, fermi fermat, vortex, etc.... Just by intuition. Great presentation.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад +1

      Thanks! I have no idea what you just said, but I appreciate you watching.

  • @lisahughesnowwilhelmi2465
    @lisahughesnowwilhelmi2465 6 лет назад +1

    Great explanation of both the Fibonacci and the Golden R. My "Golden R" essay is due in a few days and I have looked up the basic who, what, where and when's but didn't understand what it was that got folks so excited.... It appears that many "thinkers" find it so fascinating that they allocate precious personal hours/days/weeks etc., just thinking about that rascal R in terms of Fib as well as Phi. I think I am beginning to understand because I went on to watch the "Log e" and understood the compounding interest formulas. Oh, happy day! May 11, 2018 06:53:10;)

  • @shoshinw0500
    @shoshinw0500 5 лет назад +1

    Big Big help! Thank you for sharing. Simple and plain!!! Really appreciated!

  • @johnraeg.afunay1078
    @johnraeg.afunay1078 3 года назад

    What app do you used to make a graph sir?

  • @fredfromoz2788
    @fredfromoz2788 4 года назад +3

    Hey that was cool to know where Phi comes from. Can you please do a similar presentation for Pi (circle)? Thank You

  • @claudeclovisleriche8002
    @claudeclovisleriche8002 3 года назад

    Many thanks for the clearness of your demonstration and video. I’d like to know the name of your app.
    I’got an ipad, can I find it in appstore ? Thanks for your information. C.L

  • @robfordgerrans6076
    @robfordgerrans6076 7 лет назад +5

    Iv watched 3 videos trying to understand how this ratio actually works and this is by far the best one. great work!

  • @BusinesssValues
    @BusinesssValues Год назад

    Thank you. I understood the adding of the numbers for the Fibonacci Sequence, but, I never knew the division to get Phi . I had heard of the Golden Ratio but didn't quite get how it tied to the Fibonacci Spiral. I had seen the callipers but had not seen such a fun experiment. Tis is excellent. Again, thank you.

  • @scottielambert9312
    @scottielambert9312 4 года назад +1

    Exceptional post fella! Positive and thought provoking. I use this as a tool for trading but the eloquence and relatability of it is a bit astounding. Thanks for posting.

  • @MsPinecone123
    @MsPinecone123 5 лет назад +6

    Wow I wonder if the woman who first designed the log cabin quilt block knew that this is the same pattern.

    • @echomei7070
      @echomei7070 4 года назад +1

      I heard someone use FS to learn Spanish . How did it work? Can you explain it ?

  • @fawzihatem1238
    @fawzihatem1238 4 года назад +1

    almost all videos on RUclips extremely complicated I couldn't understand anything but you and the you explained it to me was absolutely simple and great thank you so much for that it's a lovely video I wish you could more subscribed to a channel

  • @pigeonmanof180
    @pigeonmanof180 4 года назад

    Nice hat.......and thanks for sharing one of the most profound and important foundations of good design.

  • @RiyadhAlDuwaisan
    @RiyadhAlDuwaisan 6 лет назад

    Hi there ... whats the name of the program u used graph papre 2 draw ? thnx

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад

      Hi Riyadh. The program I used was the software that came with my SmartBoard in the school I worked at. I believe it was called Promethean Activ.

  • @MicheleEngel
    @MicheleEngel 4 года назад

    I still don't get it. When you show how the calipers fit your son's face the first time, you're excited because the mid-point of the caliper hits just below his eye. But what is the significance of that? What makes it so special? Then you reverse the calipers and show that the middle point hits the center of his forehead. Again, what is the significance of that? Is it that no matter whose head you try that on, the result is the same? If so, you need to say so. People always demo this principle in isolation--using a specific painting or a shell they find on the beach or a flower. So I never understand what the big deal is. Can someone clarify this for me?

  • @johnallen7367
    @johnallen7367 4 года назад +1

    Hi from Australia. Thank you so much for enriching my evening. Im genuinely grateful.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      Very kind of you, John. And, my pleasure. Thanks for watching.

  • @gsc1985
    @gsc1985 7 лет назад

    What software app are you using for the graph paper? Thanks!!!

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад

      I believe it was called Promethean Activ. It was the software that came with my school SmartBoard.

  • @KipIngram
    @KipIngram 4 года назад +2

    Ok, that was really cute - the way you wrapped that up.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      Cheers! Appreciate you watching until the end. Your kind is rare!

  • @23danibell
    @23danibell 4 года назад +1

    Awesome video ... easy to follow 👌 great learning tool .seems very important to know this more than ever . So happy to see you teaching your boys this information! 😀💛💜💚💙 thank you 😊

  • @jimjr4432
    @jimjr4432 4 года назад +2

    Love the t-shirt!!

  • @thelogos5617
    @thelogos5617 4 года назад

    Awesome work! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

  • @sugunamahesh5884
    @sugunamahesh5884 7 лет назад

    Really great video! Thank you so much.

  • @jamesfarrell1116
    @jamesfarrell1116 4 года назад +2

    I love your energy.
    Great video 📹

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      Thank you so much!! Hope you subscribe and check out my other videos.

  • @ironicdivinemandatestan4262
    @ironicdivinemandatestan4262 3 года назад +12

    Lesson 5, Johnny.

  • @dnimeerf9532
    @dnimeerf9532 6 лет назад +1

    Great work, this kind of educational curiosity is important.

  • @threciamaeaguipo7829
    @threciamaeaguipo7829 2 года назад

    Aguipo,Threcia Mae N.
    BSAIS - first year- Block 1
    1. Give the 4 kinds of PATTERNS IN NATURE.
    Answers;
    a. Spirals
    b. Tessellation
    c. Spots
    d. Stripes
    2. What is F(7)+F(3)-F(6)=?
    Answers
    5

  • @gorillagoreal
    @gorillagoreal Месяц назад

    This was amazing, 😮you made me understand better 🙏

  • @I-am-the-Magus
    @I-am-the-Magus 4 года назад +2

    Gyro himself couldn't have explained it better.

  • @SixCarino
    @SixCarino 4 года назад

    Thanks for thia video. You deserve more subscribers!

  • @suzannesaidso3079
    @suzannesaidso3079 4 года назад +1

    What an awesome back yard they get to play in! Great video!

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      Yes, I miss it everyday. We live in Thailand now, so it's beautiful in a different way. Thanks for watching.

  • @mrs.fontana4685
    @mrs.fontana4685 3 года назад

    Thanks for this! It's a tough concept to explain!

  • @johnraeg.afunay1078
    @johnraeg.afunay1078 3 года назад

    What tool did you use in graphing sir?

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  3 года назад

      Hi John, so that software came with the Promethean Smart Board that was supplied by my school. I'm quite sure that the software is defunct by now.

  • @monicabilicic9479
    @monicabilicic9479 4 года назад +2

    Omg I need one 👏👏👏

  • @swradios
    @swradios 4 года назад

    At 4:48 you describe how the 1.68 number was related to the 2 square being 1.68 larger than the two 1 squares. I don't follow this. Please explain.

    • @maimon1
      @maimon1 4 года назад

      The ratios form a sequence of numbers that "tends" to 1.618. here is the sequence: 2.0000 1.5000 1.6667
      1.6000 1.6250 1.6154 1.6190 1.6176
      1.6182 1.6180 1.6181 1.6180 1.6180
      1.6180 1.6180 1.6180 1.6180 1.6180
      . . .

    • @hizzoflow2795
      @hizzoflow2795 4 года назад

      Ccccccccccccccccoooooooooooooollllllllllllllllll

  • @jayjhaveri1906
    @jayjhaveri1906 7 лет назад +1

    too good explaination 😍

  • @coltondiondion
    @coltondiondion 4 года назад

    I understand the golden ratio, but what I don't understand is when we draw the Fibonacci sequence through squares it looks like to me that the square next isn't 1.618 times larger. It just looks like it's 1.75 times larger. A rectangle split into sixths. Help.

  • @user-xj8xz3yf8u
    @user-xj8xz3yf8u 4 года назад +3

    Thank you🙏

  • @viktorkarlsohn3705
    @viktorkarlsohn3705 3 года назад

    and he got it from the 10th Book of Pythagoras, as the Unending Fraction, 300 BC, who got it from Ezekiel, 550 BC

  • @hkginger
    @hkginger 6 лет назад

    THUMBS UP! Thank you for the clear explanation of Fibonacci sequence and golden ration. Barb

  • @markgreen9567
    @markgreen9567 6 лет назад +1

    Thank you Kevin! Simple genius. Now onto make my Caliper Gauge!

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад

      Cool! I found directions to make the calipers in the book "The Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe" by Michael S. Schneider. If you're looking for a really good use for those calipers, and you don't mind people looking at you funny, you should take them to an art museum! Life changing!

    • @hizzoflow2795
      @hizzoflow2795 4 года назад

      mark green tea was the first day of my day hahahahaha lol bruh is my day I got this game and I was wondering how to make it to the gym now or I’ll go get back with my bro

  • @STgauss3268
    @STgauss3268 5 лет назад +1

    the 'share' button of RUclips looks and goes like a spiral representing golden ratio

  • @penelope8557
    @penelope8557 4 года назад +1

    Careful. Don't poke little Tobin's eye out with those "calipers".

  • @came2425
    @came2425 4 года назад +4

    when he says turn it off lol

  • @jujubean222
    @jujubean222 3 года назад

    omg..such a great video..in trying to look for a video I can understand, the others just made me more confuse! 🥴 The big words and out of this world computation.😁 Thank you.

  • @gplunky
    @gplunky 4 года назад

    Thank You Mr. Kevin

  • @TheShavarin
    @TheShavarin 4 года назад

    very nice, thanks for making this video..

  • @evasionwarsofficial9994
    @evasionwarsofficial9994 4 года назад +3

    Part 7 Readers screaming Nani!
    P.S. This is a really good video!

  • @angrybeaverwoodworks
    @angrybeaverwoodworks Год назад

    Great video and a great channel

  • @kennethhowell5291
    @kennethhowell5291 4 года назад

    Thank you! A real revelation! Thank you Sir!

  • @aurorapintore9356
    @aurorapintore9356 4 года назад

    interesting. Thank you!

  • @sarandavaa5109
    @sarandavaa5109 6 лет назад

    Great video!

  • @angelajoanowens
    @angelajoanowens 4 года назад +1

    Well explained.

  • @laman8914
    @laman8914 4 года назад +1

    Thank you for the insight into one of the fundamentals of nature. Btw, you've got 2 nice kids that look as smart as you. Take good care of them and teach them well.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      Thanks for watching and for the nice compliment on my boys. I'm accutely aware of how fortunate I am.

  • @conantdog
    @conantdog 5 лет назад

    Excellent video excellent description and graphics I liked it very much. 👍

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  5 лет назад

      Thanks! I just came back across this after quite a long time and was shocked to see so many views! Glad it was useful to you.

  • @rowenalaniig7924
    @rowenalaniig7924 5 лет назад

    Thanks... I understand this much better

  • @Realityscopee
    @Realityscopee 2 года назад

    this video explains it so eaisly and clearly.. wow

  • @syedazehra9497
    @syedazehra9497 5 лет назад +1

    that was a very educational video as well as interesting

  • @neildunbar1231
    @neildunbar1231 5 лет назад +3

    Just watched it, very good and easy to understand, but someone found a toad that was more interesting.

  • @Desertduleler_88
    @Desertduleler_88 5 лет назад +6

    My father never told me about this when I was a youngster.

  • @blo0dystory
    @blo0dystory 7 лет назад +39

    i wish i had a dad like you all i can remember is my father kicking my ass

    • @Mrkientube
      @Mrkientube 6 лет назад +1

      JAJAJAJAJAA

    • @death2pc
      @death2pc 4 года назад

      And darned well he did!

  • @ThonyGuRu
    @ThonyGuRu 7 лет назад

    super cool!

  • @kenfarmer1139
    @kenfarmer1139 4 года назад

    You don't need the Fibonacci sequence to get the golden ratio. Any two numbers - say, 2 and 85 - will generate it by following the ADD to generate a sequence, then the DIVIDE to get, yes, THE GOLDEN RATIO!

  • @tassie7325
    @tassie7325 4 года назад +1

    Its called "Making things fit your perspective". Like the way that Phi fits Africa very nicely but has no significance at all with Australia

  • @gbee8888
    @gbee8888 4 года назад

    Hmmm... 4:25 You don't explain why you can draw curves here between the box corners. You only have box corners as data points, nothing to define the shape of a line between them. ??

  • @skipd9164
    @skipd9164 4 года назад

    Was the fibonacci sequence basically used to create the first computer virus. Basically quickly overloading the processor

  • @ebenwaterman5858
    @ebenwaterman5858 4 года назад +1

    Nice vid. I tried to find PHI in an ice cream cone. Never found it. LOL :)

  • @markroman2091
    @markroman2091 4 года назад

    What software was that?

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      That was the software that comes with a Promethean ActivBoard

  • @jerichotm2122
    @jerichotm2122 4 года назад

    Not only the Galaxies are built this way, but the Solar System, that we live in, too! The planets around the Sun are forming a spiral, not an orbit... the planets are not orbiting around the Sun, but falling in to it... or following it, depending on the point of view.

  • @breakreek9552
    @breakreek9552 6 лет назад

    Wow amazing

  • @henrybridges6820
    @henrybridges6820 4 года назад

    Just watched this video. Fascinating. But I do have a question. Just before the 5 minute mark, you say:
    04:51
    here this two is one point six one eight
    04:54
    times larger than these ones put
    04:56
    together that ratio is forming this
    But, if we assume each 1 is 1 square inch, them 2 is 4 square inches and square 2 is 2 times larger than the 1's combined. What am I missing?

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад +1

      You're not missing anything. I think it's just a consequence of trying to demonstrate the golden spiral on grid paper. In nature, the fibonacci sequence doesn't have a court so tidy on which to play. I should also say that the fibonacci number only approach the value of phi, they never quite make a true golden spiral. I guess what I was trying to do with this video is spur interest in mathematics for my students. I apologize if it got off track.
      Thanks for watching!

  • @mizouman
    @mizouman 4 года назад +1

    thank you for sharing such informative video, I've seen that spiral on many occasion, but never understood it. many thanks to you

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      You are most welcome. Thanks for watching.

  • @carlpen850
    @carlpen850 4 года назад +1

    Does Fe Fi Fo Fum count ?

  • @gyurterd8922
    @gyurterd8922 4 года назад

    Kevin, how can I make those calipers?

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад +1

      So glad you asked! I just made a video this summer on that very subject. Check it out, and thanks for watching! ruclips.net/video/yxXI5a6B79s/видео.html

  • @raiderfandew
    @raiderfandew 4 года назад +1

    Even cabinet drawers work best using the Golden ratio in their length vs width.

    • @MrKevin-ul1qp
      @MrKevin-ul1qp  4 года назад

      No kidding?! That's interesting. What do you mean by "work best?" Mechanically speaking or are we talking about ideal area?

    • @raiderfandew
      @raiderfandew 4 года назад

      @@MrKevin-ul1qp , no, not as far as ideal area.... it concerns it's ease of opening and closing and it's resistance to binding when doing so. I am a custom furniture maker by trade, and with all of my pieces, I always consider the Golden Ratio. I might not always use it, but more often than not. Thanks for a very interesting video. It's very well put together.

  • @karltaylor6409
    @karltaylor6409 3 года назад

    the kid holding a frog is in a fibonacci spiral

  • @rixbase
    @rixbase 5 лет назад +11

    Came for the maths. Stayed for the wholesomeness.

    • @JMARTIN1947
      @JMARTIN1947 4 года назад

      I prefer the math and not so much the mush-headed kids.

  • @siddarvind6410
    @siddarvind6410 5 лет назад

    Best video by far

  • @hibahsairafi7511
    @hibahsairafi7511 7 лет назад

    thank you

  • @vgovger4373
    @vgovger4373 4 года назад

    It seems that anything which is impacted by gravity must follow the golden ratio. Otherwise if I choose to draw perfect circle or build a building that is 1775 feet then the golden ratio does not exist or is needed.