"Someone threw a stone at our house and we are just throwing it back through the same hole." Also we replaced the stone with a giant boulder. And launched it back with a trebuchet. Also the boulder is now on fire.
my monster pc IS CPU: RYZEN 7 1700 RAM: 16 GB DDR4 3200MHZCL15 GS KILL RIP JAWS GPU: GTX 970 G1 GAMING MONITOR: DELLP2416D 24'' 2560X1440 60 HZ IPS MOTHERBOARD: ASUS PRIME X370 PRO HDD1: WD BLACK 4 TB HDD2: 1 TB CASE: AEROCOOL 800 SSD: MP 600 2TB PSU: CM 750M 750 WATT i search since october for a RTX 3080 and havent found it yet but i decided that if i dont find a RTX 3080 or RTX 3080TI or RTX 3070TI until october then i will order a RTX 3070TI and wait. So i wonder... Will my PSU be enough for it or will i need to get a better psu too? Here in Greece right now, cheapest RTX 3070TI is 800 euros the Gigabyte VGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Eagle 8 GB. So for this rtx 3070ti will my psu be enough?
"I really don't know what he's basing that on, honestly." "We decided to work with a script and pulled data from 93,679 sales...and instead used *data* to justify our position." My man brought the receipts.
His rebuttals are all well said. And without any bashing. The man is on his way up, currently underrated, and after this video convinced me to subscribe to the channel.
Using data doesn't immediately make you more convincing though, and Steve leaving the 3080ti out of the charts could either be an accident or just bad faith.
@@nerglersstuff8890 go check stockx for the current prices. stockx.com/nvidia-founders-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-graphics-card stockx.com/nvidia-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-graphics-card-founders-edition difference of about $200
@@Icetea-2000 I don't know how much RUclips drama Icetea 2000 has actually watched in his life but the way that it *WORKS* is, typically, it's way, way more closely tied to real work drama and what else is happening in the real world. And that is the way and that has *ALWAYS* been the way.
@@Icetea-2000 I'm no more mad than Linus was. I just felt that we viewers deserve some drama of our own sometimes. And this goes far beyond just a new GPU set.
@@CarbonPanther the cost of modern tech isn't by choice tho, Samsung and TSMC have to manufacture the parts, and silicon isn't cheap. Blame physics not Nvidia lol
happy to see a mature professional disagreement rather than accustations, insults, etc. like one normally does online. it shows what a good relationship and mutual respect you have
regardless, linus has been running in a new lane lately the last month or so. he's been coming off more of a shill, its all sponsors first with only a hot take for intel, which isn't a hot take, just THE take, and they've started writing crypto into the gpu reviews while subtly defending the use of them. it seems to be more quantity over quantity with the videos to generate ads and sponsors. idk. steve and GN are all class, all tact, and all fact. you can't argue with steve because he's just going to research before he makes a stand. definitely the first place i go for actual facts regarding pc hardware.
I'm happy to see this too but god damn it Steve handed Linus his hat. I almost fell out of my chair at WE DECIDED TO WORK WITH A SCRIPT. It's the most nonchalant burn I've ever seen.
@@666thsense Hate to tell you this, but it hasn't been the last month or so. It's been _years._ Maybe you only noticed it recently, but I noticed it years ago when he was interrupting his Threadripper 3000 review to give himself a wedgie to shill underwear. Or rather, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me - I was already pretty sick of the minimum 3, sometimes 4, ads per video. They already did a sponsor spot at the start, another at the end, then they started randomly throwing plugs for their merch in between. Trying to sell something, even your own merch, is still an ad. And that many ads per video is taking the piss. They didn't even try to integrate the ads well either. This is another area where I have to give Steve/GamersNexus huge credit. At least when they throw in an extra ad for their merch, it's integrated well. When Steve's tearing down a video card and mentions that I can get the modmat he's working on from his store, I don't feel disrespected. I don't feel like the only reason I'm here is to have products sold to me. Heck, if Steve didn't say that, there would be people in the comments asking where to buy that mat from. Absolutely nobody was asking Linus where they can buy his underwear from. Also I've heard "this video was brought to you by US!" on GamersNexus several times as the sponsor spot, meaning there wasn't a paying sponsor for that video (or it was a super negative video that they didn't feel comfortable putting a sponsor's spot into) so they used that as a chance to plug the merch. I _never_ heard that on LTT, it was always paying sponsors in the dedicated sponsor spots and then extra merch shilling on top of that. And I'm sure someone will bring it up, so I'll respond preemptively. I don't care how many people Linus employs. I don't care how expensive his company is to run. I don't know if he needs to stop hiring so many people so quickly, or stop trying to run so many channels, or stop trying to get so many videos out per day, or whatever. All I care about is the quality of the video I'm watching. And like I said above, when I'm being advertised to that much and with that little regard to being subtle about it, I feel like the quality decreases. It decreased so much in my opinion that I stopped watching. Pointing out Linus's supposed expenses, that none of us actually know in the detail needed to have a proper discussion about if all those ads are justified or not BTW, isn't changing my mind on the video quality. It still feels gross to watch. I still don't want to watch it. The only caveat I will offer is that it's been years since I watched (like I said, the Threadripper 3000 review was the last straw for me). So maybe some of the stuff I said no longer applies, maybe LTT does things differently now. Although based on the comment I'm replying to, it doesn't sound like it.
Most scalpers sell hardware still in the unopened plastic wrap, they just put themselves in the position of an extra middle-man while selling you brand new hardware.
@@pandemicneetbux2110 Scalping is a product of consumers buying scalped products, if people are willing to pay the price the scalper sets, who’s to say that’s not the products value? It’s an agreement between two adults
i do love how GN always explains their methodology and the logic they are basing their conclusions from. you don't have to agree with it but it shows that their testing and eventual opinion is based on a consistent logic path and method. its the sort of journalism that we need.
@Tano Yeah, but even in this rare moment where Steve feels the need to actually go on record against Mr. Sebastian, he gets to immediately lead off with, "...and so I have this ridiculous amount of real world data" and it's instantly to his favor. It's not Steve's nor GN Staff's problem that others don't have rigorous data.
Linus’ comments felt tone def. he’s aware of the current market but then defines how the market works... under *normal* circumstances. This is not a normal market. If it was, sure he’d be absolutely right. Unfortunately he’s not this time. And it’s ok to be wrong from time to time. You learn from that.
Actually, pure competition IS the definition of a proper market. Under most circumstances markets are controlled (centralization). Don't listen to Libertarians about markets. Econ major here. ;) The fact that people pay this deeply for gpus indicates they were undervalued. By definition.
@@armyofninjas9055 It is pure supply/demand case. Less supply + more demand = higher prices. I am sure if people calmed down and didn't panic-purchase GPUs, prices would go down. But now, this is self-perpetuating spiral of ballooning prices. We can bust it ourselves by not buying or it will pop because nobody will have money left. Nvidia playing into it for short-term gain is only distorting market more. Just as Wealth of the Nations described it. They can prolong this bubble but burst would be that much painful.
"Using a script, we've pulled data from 679 of GN's top videos based on Like-to-dislike ratio, and utilized an snark-detecting algorithm to conclude this"
i still run evrything at max settings 1440p witn my gtx 970 since 2014? dont belive me? see my videos! my monster pc IS CPU: RYZEN 7 1700 RAM: 16 GB DDR4 3200MHZCL15 GS KILL RIP JAWS GPU: GTX 970 G1 GAMING MONITOR: DELLP2416D 24'' 2560X1440 60 HZ IPS MOTHERBOARD: ASUS PRIME X370 PRO HDD1: WD BLACK 4 TB HDD2: 1 TB CASE: AEROCOOL 800 SSD: MP 600 2TB PSU: CM 750M 750 WATT i search since october for a RTX 3080 and havent found it yet but i decided that if i dont find a RTX 3080 or RTX 3080TI or RTX 3070TI until october then i will order a RTX 3070TI and wait. So i wonder... Will my PSU be enough for it or will i need to get a better psu too? Here in Greece right now, cheapest RTX 3070TI is 800 euros the Gigabyte VGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Eagle 8 GB. So for this rtx 3070ti will my psu be enough?
@@jaykoerner right now? It’s been this way for 8 months nearly. This is the market. Linus should’ve known that and taken that into consideration with his argument. There’s no point trying to be right about the market that doesn’t exist.
Historically cards on green team's side have been out of wack since the 20 series and RTX hit the market. It's like people forgot how good the 1080TI and 1070 were price wise. There isn't even a 400usd option for the newest generation. Even just looking at MSRP. It's all so inflated.
The whole shitshow started with the GTX 600 series (gtx 680 not being the top card, but rather the Titan was the top quality silicon, evidently by their GPU codenames. The trend continued and even now we're being sold mid range GPUs for the price of a high end card, and high end cards for the price of financialsuicide.
@@meatbleed wildly ahead of their time. But the problem is that buying a used 1080 Ti for $500 is far more of a risk than a new 3080 at $1k. Yes, its double price, but its new with a warranty. Also, it may be the same as a 1080 as far as lasting 7-8 year with relavence in a gaming rig.
yeah my 970 was the best $350 ish i ever spent on my pc. I never had any issues until i moved to 1440p. Buying my 1080ti for $730 at launch was probably the second best gpu value especially since a month later that card was double the price
Same xD I bought my 3070ti in a bundle with 5800x a while ago, and considering that 5800x was $500 CAD when I bought it, my 3070ti ($1,000) was actually cheaper than a 3070($1200 and out of stock).
Steve, I'm sure I speak for MANY when I say you've got a sub for life here. Integrity is something that can't be bought, even at scalper prices. You've hit this one out of the park!
I wanted a 3080, I won a 3070 Ti on Newegg shuffle after failing on every BB drop and every previous shuffle. Its a huge upgrade over a 1080 and it's all I could get.... so yeah its only 10% better than a 3070 for too much money but these are hard times. I'm much happier with it than without.
Pretty much me as well. Best buy did a last drop for the end of this year and i wanted to get a 3070 FE. I waited for a while and they ran out, but they had thet ti FE edition. Upgrading from a 1650 super to a 3070ti is a very big one for me. So no matter how many ppl are here saying its a waste of money it aint
I had a Ti4200 once and it was an incredible card. It beat everything on the market. After unlocking the pipeline and OCing it with an OrbII kit, I slaughtered 4600 cards left right and center. Bavk when you could unlock your pipelines yourself..... You could even do it yourself to your CPU. You would pay for a 6000+ AMD and cross pins and get a 6400+ for $100 less. Lmao!! Manufacturers caught on fast.
Honestly, I regret not putting money in Nvidia in November. But on the other hand, I did not loose anything from not making anything, so I just laugh at the current market.
Major respect to you Steve. You're one of the few rational and mature RUclipsrs out there. You handled the "conflict" really well and always provide data to back your conclusions. This is top quality tech journalism.
Great video again by the GN team! The graphics at around the 3:50 mark are great examples of what is happening. I study economics and in behavioural economics they use the term “anchoring”. It’s a well researched phenomenon and the 3070 Ti is 100% a classic example of this; trying to look sane with reference to an absurd comparison (being the 3080 Ti).
Courtesy of Edward Bernays, first of his name, King of Public Relations, and the rise of cigarettes, Lord of Propaganda, and Protector of Economic growth, nephew to Sigmund Froyd (who taught him the secrets of the human mind in exchange for help escaping Nazi Germany) He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named I earnestly encourage everyone to check his story, one of the grandest stranger than fiction stories of modern time.
I watch both Linus and Steve. I watch Linus for entertainment and keeping up to date. I go to GN before I buy anything and I trust a GN review implicitly. LMG sells us new technology, GN holds companies marketing departments to task. Although there are lots of jibes from Linus, JayzTwoCents I think they all know that GN is possibly the most important hardware RUclips channel. GN and Louis Rossmann are super heroes in my opinion. Thank-you tech Jesus. You are one of our only hopes.
@N Webb GN get along with LMG because Steve is mature. Not the kind that feeds off stupid dramas. He doesn't get offended just because people have different opinions than his. I like Linus, but the guy can be annoying at times when he has a different view on things.
I love the content. Your professionalism is on full display here, and it should be commended. So thank you for showing your audience how the pros disagree and debate without slander. We need more of this across the internet.
Dude they got the math wrong on the simple price increase… being a math teacher can’t help but point that out… he basing his opinion on faulty math to start…
Linus: "and that's something I'd be happy to go toe-to-toe with Steve on" Steve: "...hold my beer. let's talk about the data..." Glad y'all are still keeping it professional. :)
Gamers Nexus takes a scientific approach to their results and findings that gives it credence. Linus is entertaining as a content creator in the tech sphere but I feel like taking a shot a GN was just to get some "Marketing" done.
I don't understand how some people can spend so much on video cards every year just for a less than 10% gain, I prefer to wait for major milestones like a new dx generation or a new pci-e revision.
Well usually there are 3 big groups. -PCMR buys the top tier stuff whenever it’s released. -People are about to upgrade from their 900-1000 series or older high end cards. -Mid tier users. I think the 50-60 cards get “outdated” faster than the big boys. I guess a lot of people like to spend less more often than to spend a lot every couple of years. Oh, I’ve almost forgot about the hiding aces. The assholes with the train pass. They go and whine wherever the hate train takes them to. In 2021 they can appear to be important by whining about that they can’t buy the shit that they wouldn’t buy -or couldn’t buy- anyway. ✌️
@@davidlakatos9904 i went from a Radeon HD5000 series to a Radeon RX5000 series GPU. Kind of interesting how in about 10 years they returned to the same numbers. Went mid both times and survived. Got carried through the later days with gaming mainly on 3ds because I really enjoyed the games on it.
That is because they don't replace them every year. The card they are replacing is not last years model, it is the model from 3 to 5 generations back. Why would I care that the current card is less than 10% better than the previous generation when the card I am actually replacing is 680Ti? The jump from the previous generation is irrelevant.
But Ti has always been what it’s called. The community re named it T I and we’ll it stuck. Ti is shorthand for titanium as in the element. But yeah. It’s T I.
Just bought a Tuf 3070 Ti today because it was $50 cheaper than the 3070 lol. Got it for $700+ tax and the regular Tuf 3070 was sitting on the shelf for $755 at microcenter. So I figured I’d pick one up and replace my 1080Ti that I planned to use for probably another 2 years. Guess I don’t have to do that now
im kinda in the same boat, i skipped 2000 series cause the price increase wasn't worth the minimal power increase over the 1080 ti. Well fast forward to 3000 series and yeah lol. That being said prices are looking a lot better but stuck trying to decide what to get. was leaning towards 3070 or 3070 ti but the 8gb kinda sucks if i decide to move from 1440 to 4k. Could get the 6700xt but then miss out on ray tracing. on the other hand could wait for the 3080/6800 to drop a little more in price
Prices are too high for tech, even at MSRP. Think i'm probably just gonna get a new hobby. Congratulations AMD and Nvidia on pushing away your customers.
Pushed away nothing those cards sell regardless if u purchase it or not and they will sell for more than what your willing to pay. I understand your frustration tho it sucks ass when waited over a year for gpu to finish a pc build. It would take insane amount customers to not purchase these cards make them change there sales strategies. Problem is no real competition atm.
Yea we have a lot of idiots in this world. Scalpers just as bad as salesman and marketers. Human scum. Then you have the idiots that will go out and spend over $1k on a card smh while those companies laugh their asses off at them.
>AMD Sir that's not their fault besides giving into their nature as a soulless profit hungry corporation. Really it comes down to corps like Intel and nVidia (especially Apple) for relying solely on brand recognization over hardware performance to dupe philistines into paying ridiculous premiums for bupkus. I like AMD because they actually emphasize the hardware. It used to be that I could rely on Intel to at least value the technology itself, and not feeling totally scammed. I had a concrete image of my dream system being a high end, triple fanned, upper K sku Intel/nVidia rig which when I finally built my system in 2020 it ended up becoming an AMD/AMD. Why? Because the math didn't add up. $200 premium for basically the same performance+upscaling a gimmick implemented on like 3 games. Total system cost inflation by like $300 because of Intel tax not just on getting the board, but also now having to pay for more cooling for the monstrous 14+++++++++ power consumption/thermals. Having to pay even moar to get a higher end PSU to power all this. And then by the time it came down to brass tacks I realized not only I actually wasn't getting anything more, but in fact I was getting even *less*. I'd've had no PCIe 4.0 boot drive on 10700k or whatever. Comparing Asrock Taichi to Taichi, I'd have fewer features on their board, but then it costs $50 more anyway. Why?? For what purpose?? Because the brand name I used to trust a decade ago as being the best? Kudos to guys like Jay, Steve and so on for diving into this stuff because otherwise I probably would've wasted hundreds and hundreds more in complete ignorance. The Wraith Prism pushed it over the edge because the cost of getting the same level performance would be so much more on Intel that I'd already be paying a tier or two higher on AMD if I spent the money there anyway. Main thing AMD fucked up imho is this gen they didn't provide neato included stock coolers as much and charged more. They can't act like they're Intel. It greatly expanded the performance range within my budget.
The whole reason why prices are this high is because of a massive influx of new customers (miners) so nobody really cares really cares what your hobbies are.
Linus really was unprofessional throughout his review, and his Wan appearance. The Livestream chat was rabidly hating on him for what he did, and I agree, Linus really made a mistake. You just destroyed him with data, and I love that.
Disagree, mostly because anything you can seem as unprofessional was mostly in jest between him and Steve, also Steve agreed with him historically just not in the current case
Man, I bought a Vega 56 for $150 before all of this went down. It's so tempting to sell it for well over what I bought it for and take a hiatus from gaming, but at the same time there is no end in sight and I'd rather not be without a GPU for 2 years.
Extra proud of Steve time and time again, holds to his values, consistent opinions, and thorough reviews. Can't be any more disappointed in Linus, who is tripling down on his 3080Ti review.
Steve's review is great, but you have to keep in mind perspective. Linus and Steve both have different points of reference, and preferred baseline aside, both the reviews are valid from their respective perspectives. I personally agree with most of the points Steve makes here, but just because Linus' chosen perspective doesn't apply to me, does not invalidate his results. Linus went against the grain and released a review for a more niche group of buyers, the only people who would actually buy this card, and ironically a group that no one else was catering to. If that's not for you, literally every other tech channel has released a review to line up with your needs. As Steve said, releasing an overpriced product just because there are people who will pay for it, at the expense of most of the people who can't, is a scummy move; regardless, there are people who will pay it, so they deserve consideration from the review space. If you hold the opinion that the 3090 is a gaming card, and you were willing to buy it, then Linus' review is more applicable than Steve's. Not only that, the fact that the 3080Ti uses less VRAM and shares a cooler with the 3080 means that while the total number of GPUs on the market might not change, they may be able to produce more 3080Tis than 3090s. Furthermore, if you are the kind of person who doesn't want to pay scalpers, but at the same time don't care about performance value and will buy anything that meets or exceeds you minimum performance threshold at any price, so long as it's MSRP from a retailer, then the only thing you need to see is if that card meets the minimum specs.
@@XDSDDLord I appreciate your well thought out comment. I'm merely just noticing throughout the years, Steve has always been the same. Whether he had 100K subs, or 1 million subs. He never relents, and is always of the opinion that is best for gamers. Linus meanwhile, has flip flopped on too many occasions, and at this point looks like he pretends to care about the average people. His stance on the 3080Ti is proof of that.
@@XDSDDLord My issue with the LTT review is that it was filmed before the price was announced. I think everyone involved at LTT assumed it would be priced at $999, and went ahead and filmed the review. The only mention of the price was a prerecorded 2 second disappointed face clip which they shoehorned into the video afterwards. Not knowing the price means that at the end of the review when Linus exclaims that purchasing it at MSRP is a "no brainer", Linus was just blindly recommending a product. It didn't matter if the 3080Ti were $899 or $1399, the conclusion of the LTT video would remain "Just buy it!". I'd expect that level of blind product shilling from Tom's Hardware. (to be clear, I don't think Linus is a paid NVIDIA shill, I just think he was excitedly recommending a product when he didn't have all the facts)
@@XDSDDLord "Linus went against the grain and released a review for a more niche group of buyers, the only people who would actually buy this card" And who would that niche group be? Steve already demonstrated that the 3080Tie doesn't offer enough gaming performance compared to price over the 3080 to be worth it for gamers, and the 3080Tie doesn't offer enough VRAM to be worth it to the people that see value in the 3090. The 3080Tie isn't even for the people who want the absolute best gaming performance, price and sense be damned, because the 3090 outperforms it. So who's the niche for the 3080Tie? It's not gamers looking for a good value, it's not gamers looking for the best of the best, and it's not professionals looking for loads of VRAM. The 3080Tie is for nobody.
@@jonlaw16 Yeah, they _really_ should have waited for the price and then wrote the script and filmed the review. The way they did is just stupid. There's no way you can make a decent review like that, because without all the information, you can't compare accurately to competing products. I don't get - why on earth do it this way? Are they that crunched for time? A late review would have been better than this. No review would have been better than this. Doing it the way LTT did it seems like worst case scenario to me.
Yea its weird of Linus to keep defending Nvidia, cause its not like Linus had never shyt on Nvidia before. It feels Mr leather man Huang drugged Linus to give positive reviews on their products xD
@@abimangalan I don't think so. Anyone that fanboys over computer hardware brands instead of just buying whats best for their purpose and money does not have enough braincells to build a channel that big
I remember when "ti" actually meant that a card was much faster than the non ti version. The 1070 ti, for example, is closer to a 1080 in performance than a 1070.
I just bought a 3070ti. Why you may ask based on your review. Well here in the UK the average price for the 3070ti is £699 (approx $915 as of writing). The 3080 starts at £899 ($1175), so quite a price difference upwards. Going down to the 3070, they're almost impossible to get hold of. So I'm pretty happy to get hold of one. Had the 3070 been more readily available like the Ti, then I might've been a bit more considerate in my purchase decision.
Steve must defend his review publicly. Even if he isn't actually upset at Linus (which I highly doubt he is). So "Listen here you little shit" feels a little too aggressive.
@@realWARPIG yeah we should probably stop feeding the troll... although let me just squeeze this in because it's too ironic to not call it out! Bronze HD: Accuses GN of fabricated data sadnehs: ok where's your data/proof to validate that statement Bronze HD: " I'm not gonna get them so why would I even try? I'm just stating the facts" right....so using fabricated and non existing information to then accuse someone else of of fabricating data... I mean dude is either a troll (and a very obvious one), or the dude is so delusional, I actually fear for the people around him.
@@bronzehd6212 I'm not even American 😂! I'm sorry, I'm enjoying laughing at your expense too much and its mean, but I mean you're either trying to portray a cartoon idiot and this is just a caricature/online persona. Or you are being serious and in which case it goes from cartoonish hilarious to just...outright sad? Yeah i mean you are either deliberately trying to be ironically foolish or you really are just someone who spouts rubbish without actually checking your facts so...I'm a bit conflicted should I be laughing at your caricature work or should I be sad that this is really how you are IRL?🤔
I bough that card today. The 3070 is out of stock and i want to game during holliday season. Since the TI is 50.00 more i bough it anyway. I hope i will enjoy gaming with it! (in 1440p and 1080p)
same, we should be good right now the price difference wasn't more then 100$ and the rtx 3000's line in general have been great GPU's im still on a 1070 for me it'll be perfect.
I like this. Dude is calling it how it is. I'm hoping one day we can go back to the good ol days of normal prices and plenty of supply on all components.
yea, its almost like times change and bitching about how prices "ArE NoT ReAsOnAbLe" is refusing to acknowledge the current facts of price (cost to make and margin made) along with the demand. Its steve whos refusing to read the room, because hes upset about it.
Can I just say, as a statistician, I really value that you always provide empirical evidence on such a basic concept. It really makes purchasing decisions much more valid for myself! Thank you for the amazing effort you put in just to make a recommendation
I wasn't able to get a 3070, so getting an MSRP 3070ti that works out cheaper than buying a scalped 3070, is fine by me. I wanted to pay 500 for a 3070 but with current world events the 100 more for a little bit of extra performance kinda feels like buying a car and then finding a £5 note under the seat.
Glad you called out Linus. It isn't reviewers jobs to give companies a pass for screwing customers, even if market conditions allow for it and shareholders demand it.
But that wasn't what Linus meant though. And he clarified as much in the WAN show. I really feel that it wasn't a bad take or it was him giving Nvidia a pass. At this point, I kinda feel that people are trying to make a scapegoat out of him to have not followed all the other reviewers like sheep and for having a genuine take.
@@tarkfarhen3870 Resources and investment foster innovation more than the profit motive ever could. The profit motive gives you the same cod/madden every year. The profit motive has homogenized social media features. The profit motive gives you the current market conditions for absurdly priced gpus.
@@masyan3457 I mean what do you want him to do? Grovel at your feet and beg for forgiveness for speaking his mind? He did agree that Nvidia's strategy hurts other cards in its line up. It is cannibalizing (he didn't say so exactly. It is me paraphrasing). But other than that he doesn't feel the need to take back what he said. Linus has apologized in the past when he felt that he has made a genuine mistake. But this right here is just mob going after him asking for his head IMO. I am sensing cancel culture coming to tech space. EDIT: And by you I don't specifically mean you. It is just the manner of speaking/writing
@@tarkfarhen3870 To foster innovation... The guy isn't saying that profit ISN'T one of the reasons to invest in a company, but that it shouldn't be the SOLE reason, because it creates stagnation (why he mentioned cod and madden). NVidia is doing what intel did a few years ago. They are bullying the consumers because they are (for now) the best option. Until AMD does to them what it did to Intel, and forces them to stop (or at least reduce) doing anti-consumer stuff like the releases of RTX 3080TI and 3070TI clearly are. Of course, that is if AMD doesn't also go to the anti-consumer route.
Damn. I've never seen you smoke somebody so nicely with the 'we used data' line. You guys are the best and EASILY the most credible tech info source on YT. Keep up the good work, guys.
Yeah, I got a 5700 XT just before all this kicked off and raised an eyebrow when I saw the pricing of the RDNA2 cards. Considering the 6700 XT was a direct replacement, it was a bit of a price jump. But like you said, it was nvidia's 30 series pricing which probably played the biggest role as amd could undercut but it was still a high price.
From a journalistic point of view I respect GN more than LTT. GN's been unbiased, factual and often called out manufacturers when they fall short and as a consumer I have more trust on GN. I can't describe it but LTT changed their tone towards their sponsors (Nvidia being one them, albeit having only sponsored a few videos), they have a corporate sounding, business friendly voice now. Linus even mentioned in one of his videos that Jensen did not like his review and won't sponsor LTT but once they got the sponsor their tone changed.
From a tech standpoint, I don't think it's even a close comparison. LTT has made some absolutely boneheaded decisions that reveal just how little they actually know, but GN knows this field backwards and forwards.
Steve, you’re the best tech reviewer. Always straight to the point, no BS or defending major corporations. Most informative and knowledgeable. Thanks for doing what you do!
@@s13shaka but why does Nvidia have to be stupid too? He's criticizing them for taking advantage of a situation that was caused by a global pandemic, which I feel like is pretty deserved.
@@s13shaka miners and scalpers, gamers may be some part of why stock is impossible to get but it's mainly due to scalpers and miners. So no it's not gamers.
@@itsasadbunny Scalpers only exist because they have a line of people throwing money at their feet. All of this goes away the minute the customer base refuses product at an inflated price point. It's convenient to blame the big bad corporations, but they are making cards... in Nvidia's case, more of the 3000 series then they did the 2000 series... The problem is that demand has seen a huge spike and the supply chains will take a long time to catch up... so either you pay inflated prices or you don't... but don't blame the corporations or the scalpers... neither of them are forcing anybody to participate in a fucked marketplace.
I was hoping you would speak on what Linus said. I always respect your channel as you don’t hide and say what’s real here good or bad and that’s all I’d ask for and hopefully others feel the same.
Yep because the 3060ti is still too expensive and the 3080 is now diluted with the 12GB version, the 3070ti seems the least overpriced currently at the mid to high end
Prices in EU; 3070-Doesn't exist. 3070ti:€850-900. 3080:€1.250-1.300. 3080ti:€1500. Even if you say "don't buy it" seems like we don't have much choice. Price/performance of other cards are ridiculous rn.
Haven’t followed LTT for a while now since their “reviews” more blatantly began to be less objective and just outright ads, glad to know I’m not missing anything.
I unsubbed from them a while back because of something similar happening and here we go again, he does it again. Color me surprised. This is what happens when you are rich to the point where $1200 GPU’s are considered pennies in currency.
To me it's like the difference between Network News and Cable News Gamers Nexus is like Network News in that it's just news and based just on the facts LTT is like Cable News in that it's actually entertainment and based on opinion and not really news
Same, LTT has become more click-bait with b-movie entertainment without a lot of substance. I finally stopped following LTT 5 months ago and I don't miss 'em.
Linus is realistic. You know that those cards are going to be bought at MSRP even by people who have no interest in using one. For the people digging through couch cushions looking for money to buy a graphic card, this is obviously not worth it. Then again, what card is worth the money now? Steve was bitching about the prices of latest AMD APUs that offer decent gaming performance. If even that isn't a good value there there is no good value card/APU at all. As usual a few people will cry on the internet then join the rest and be happy to buy the cards for MSRP.
@@G1lgamesj Not like I'm gonna buy one anyway. I'm keeping my gtx 1060 for another year at least. It's just that steve spent so much time griping about the value of 3080TI and how bad it was when a top tier card was never a good value.
I think Linus had a valid point when we are talking about used hardware. I mean, obviously, product tiers still exist in the 2ndhand market and that's what the MSRP is based on. So, to some extent, the MSRP will still influence the 2ndhand prices. But on top of that, since it is a 2ndhand market, what the community is willing to pay for it, basically supply and demand, will also partly influence the 2ndhand prices. So, there are 2 factors generating the overall 2ndhand prices, and the consumer valuation of the product, in the case of GPU obviously rely a lot on performance. BUT when we are talking about scalped prices or resale prices of new hardware here, then yes it would be strongly correlated with the MSRP it launches with since it is a NEW product. I think you (Steve) and Linus are making points on two different prices.
For those doubting this card only exists to take advantage of the scalper pandemic, consider this: For a 17% price increase (theoretically), the 3080 gives you 42% more CUDA cores & 25% more memory capacity AND bandwidth.
@Ethan Sifford if you think it's a gaming card, then you fallen for their marketing tactics. 99% of gamers Do Not need this card. It's for professionals, 3D rendering, Animation, Ai, Game Development, Content creation, other Creative applications... etc. They market to gamers to make more money, its called advertising
@@Riley_Christian He said 3080, not 3090. The 3080 falls just short of prosumer territory at 10 GB VRAM, which I think is intentional. It's certainly a bit on the small side for some GANs I'm interested in testing out.
God. It's like nVidia isn't even trying to hide the fact that they're capitalizing on limiting their consumer supply purposefully. What a terrible time to be building a PC in.
They don't need to hide it. You'll all come crawling back for more when they announce the 4000 series. It's been proven time and again that there's nothing Nvidia can do that will put their fanboys off, from threatening reviewers and AIBs to gouging as hard as they can, it'll all be forgotten by the time they show the new shiny, just like GPP and all the other awful shit they've done in the past.
I don't think they're intentionally limiting consumer supply, it's just that miners and scalpers really are buying them up that fast, so nVidia figures they might as well really start cashing in on that. But they could absolutely make even more money if they had more GPUs.
I feel like you spent most of the video just talking about the 3080ti and it's ridiculous MSRP, not the performance 3070ti vs lower cards. Who buys cards at MSRP? With the recent Black Friday sale, the 3060ti was priced at $300 and the 3070ti was priced at $400, making the upgrade look a lot better. That's why talking about performance is much more important than focusing on the scam MSRP. Obviously prices are always changing, but MSRP is a joke.
Turns out my 1080 Ti was a good investment - it still plays modern titles fine at 1440p *and* I can even sell it for what I bought it for three years ago. The market is whacked right now.
Swooped in at the last moment to upgrade from r9 290 to used non-ti 1080 at $260, started worrying I was being impatient and wasting money. Feel like a genius now ...well lucky, anyway.
My GTX 1660 Tie was a good investment, if I sell it, I can basically trade in my 1660 Ti for an RTX 3070 Ti, provided I get lucky. I doubt I'll be lucky, but who knows
Sure you could sell it, but what would you then use yourself? I can sell my 1070ti for more than I originally bought it for, but then I'm stuck having to pay massively over MSRP to replace it. (It's kind of the same as the insane housing market now.)
(From Canada) I've been using GTX 1070 (legendary card imo) and recently got the 3070Ti in sale (20% off MSRP) and I'm pretty satisfied. With the current market this is the best I can do for now.
I think linus may have missed the main point, that in the current supply shortage typical competition and substitution (incl used market) effects go out the window. But similarly, msrp isn't really an anchor or floor just a starting point for the market to adjust to what everyone knows will in the short term be a much higher price.
Ngl, even though this isn't a beef, I do find Linus's take to be a bit embarrassing & unprofessional. Stand by your statements without dragging other people into it.
His 3070ti review was a bit more dialed in. But man, that 3080ti review was a dumpster fire. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to double-down on their conclusion
As long as AMD doesn't do anything similar with any potential refresh cards, I have a feeling there will be some subconscious public sentiment in their favour
AIB can charge what they want. The 6700XT is $549CAD which AIB versions start at $1199CAD in-store. Don't confuse the e-commerce scalper prices with manufacturer prices.
@@barronhelmutschnitzelnazi2188 Yeah AIB's have jacked up the prices more on AMD cards than Nvidia cards for whatever reason. 6700XT is between a 3060tie and a 3070, but you can't get one under $900 anymore, except from AMD directly, which sells them for $479.
I don't think he is out of touch, just he made an emotional response instead of an educated one. Keep in mind, the same person that people are calling a Nvidia shill is the same person who said, "Fuck you, Nvidia" after they messed with hardware unboxed. He has an opinion. That is completely fine. He even admitted that it's only good in the current market. Once the dust settles, he said it won't be a good deal, probably.
I think both are right in a sense and are kinda talking past the other. Linus's point is that everyone is going to want to buy these cards at MSRP because the innate value is much higher based upon the market. He also states that the 3080ti slots into a spot that is below the 3090 and not so much an uplift of the 3080 which allows NVidia to produce more chips than they would with 3090s because of the difference in RAM. That framing makes a world of difference. His points about the second hand market value is more in terms of normal supply and demand and not the topsy turvey world that we live in whereas Steve highlighted today's current market (Linus did mention that these are not normal times in the Wan Show). Steve is pressing on the point that with the current state of the market NVidia releasing another line of cards you cannot buy for a marginal performance gain is a slap in the face to gamers. I completely get it, another card no one will be able to buy leads to feel bads all over the place. My problem with the take is just that these chips were likely in the works to be released early this year and were derailed as a result of the worldwide supply issues. Jayz2Cents made the point that NVidia does not want this situation as much as anyone else. They would much prefer that everyone be able to buy a GPU, but at the same time they cannot stop their progress on new products even though the current world will not receive it with open arms as they would in normal times. I love both channels and tune into both daily. Steve is channeling more anger at the situation than Linus is and he is not wrong to do so, but at the end of the day, the salt doesn't really help that much. This time sucks for everyone and it hurts not just these guys, but the community as a whole. Just hold strong everyone, this will end sooner or later. Don't give into scalpers if you can help it.
He just kind of refuses to admit he was wrong now and won't back down. I don't think he's out of touch, he understands how shit the situation is for most people. That's obvious due to him starting the verified gamer program to help regular people get GPUs.
@@raawesome3851 so no mention that Linus had no idea who Hardware Unboked were? you know.... one of the biggest channels when it comes to performance comparisons... Linus seems pretty out of touch
Yes and no. Linus came from the perspective of a baby 3090, and GN came from the perspective of a 10% performance increase for a ridiculous markup. None of them are criminally wrong, but in the present context, GN has the smartest take, which Linus admitted. LTT is trying to sell GPUs at decent prices, he's not THAT out of touch, he gets the market and wants to do something.
In my country when i was buying 3070ti it was actually cheaper than 3070 so it's hard to tell that one gpu is more affordable than other bcs they are all not affordable . I know that i bought my gpu some around 150% MRSP but i also sold my old gpu much higher than I expected, and im sure the prices will never go back to MRSP. Hard times for gamers.
The methodic way GN conducts it's benchmarks and handles it's data and charts is the most scientifically professional I've seen on youtube so far. I'd think thrice before calling out GN on anything because it pretty damn sure looks like they know what they are doing. Best review channel I know of. And also with news.
So I guess the "Ti" now stands for "Tiny Improvement".
This made me laugh out loud for real
No, it actually does stand for tie like the dude said. As in, it's tied to the non-ti version.
Excellent! rofl
Hilarious
No kidding. A small overclock on a 3070 will hit these benchmarks.
Surprised you didn’t sport a Tie for reviewing purposes
definitely a missed opportunity
He was representing the Tie-less GFX cards.
Unfortunately they're out of stock
@@Mitchy_Witchy Imagine one of those ties that look like money. Now imagine it on t-shirt-wearing Steve. God I wish I could see that.
Just imagine the tie. Fits the GPUs well
"Someone threw a stone at our house and we are just throwing it back through the same hole."
Also we replaced the stone with a giant boulder. And launched it back with a trebuchet. Also the boulder is now on fire.
"Be polite, but leave no survivors."
How did I read this in tech jesus' voice too? Well typed my friend. XD
And explodes on impact.
Steve is right in the ideal world we all wish we lived in. Linus is right in the real world, that we actually live in.
A trebuchet is the ultimate siege weapon.
linus mentions GN in the WAN show
GN: "here, take a graph"
you get a graph, you get a graph, EVERYBODY GETS A GRAAAAAPH!
Dr. Steve: Take two graphs and call me in the morning.
@@Quelkaima STEVE
But the chart says....
my monster pc IS CPU: RYZEN 7 1700
RAM: 16 GB DDR4 3200MHZCL15 GS KILL RIP JAWS
GPU: GTX 970 G1 GAMING
MONITOR: DELLP2416D 24'' 2560X1440 60 HZ IPS
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS PRIME X370 PRO
HDD1: WD BLACK 4 TB
HDD2: 1 TB
CASE: AEROCOOL 800
SSD: MP 600 2TB
PSU: CM 750M 750 WATT
i search since october for a RTX 3080 and havent found it yet but i decided that if i dont find a RTX 3080 or RTX 3080TI or RTX 3070TI until october then i will order a RTX 3070TI and wait. So i wonder... Will my PSU be enough for it or will i need to get a better psu too? Here in Greece right now, cheapest RTX 3070TI is 800 euros the Gigabyte VGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Eagle 8 GB. So for this rtx 3070ti will my psu be enough?
"I really don't know what he's basing that on, honestly."
"We decided to work with a script and pulled data from 93,679 sales...and instead used *data* to justify our position."
My man brought the receipts.
His rebuttals are all well said. And without any bashing. The man is on his way up, currently underrated, and after this video convinced me to subscribe to the channel.
Using data doesn't immediately make you more convincing though, and Steve leaving the 3080ti out of the charts could either be an accident or just bad faith.
@@Dummyc0m do you mean 8:51?
@@nerglersstuff8890 go check stockx for the current prices.
stockx.com/nvidia-founders-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-graphics-card
stockx.com/nvidia-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-graphics-card-founders-edition
difference of about $200
@@Dummyc0m why would *anyone* use StockX for a graphics card. That’s not a common platform for this.
Linus: I'm not sure how Steve came to his conclusions.
Steve: We used data.
Don't bring presumptions to a data fight
I mean linus is pretty dumb...
No fair! You changed the results by measuring it!
@@bronzehd6212 That's why we'll always be the best baby
Ww2 anybody?
"Just to be clear, this is not youtube drama."
[grabs popcorn]
Idk, it’s definitely unnecessarily dramatic, even if all that is one-sided by Linus'
Seems like a drama to me
@@Icetea-2000 I don't know how much RUclips drama Icetea 2000 has actually watched in his life but the way that it *WORKS* is, typically, it's way, way more closely tied to real work drama and what else is happening in the real world. And that is the way and that has *ALWAYS* been the way.
@@Treddian Why are you mad?
Also, how is it not tied to what else is happening in the world? It’s the release of a new gpu set
@@Icetea-2000 I'm no more mad than Linus was. I just felt that we viewers deserve some drama of our own sometimes.
And this goes far beyond just a new GPU set.
@@Treddian Whatever, this is obviously a drama. A drama queen like you should know this
Linus: "Not sure what they're basing that on"
GN: I N D E P E N D E N T L Y V E R I F I A B L E D A T A
Amen.
Facts and logic
@@WayStedYou GN DESTROYS Linus using FACTS and LOGIC
Please, never ever get rid of the money printing gun Steve. That gets a laugh out of me every time you guys use it
I guess for that you have to hope that manufacturing never stop making awful value products!
In fact, get a second one. Dual wield those bad boys!
@@CarbonPanther the cost of modern tech isn't by choice tho, Samsung and TSMC have to manufacture the parts, and silicon isn't cheap. Blame physics not Nvidia lol
@@EthyrielY Goldeneye dual golden gun vibes
@@Riley_Christian lol thats not the problem of the current situation. not. at. all.
happy to see a mature professional disagreement rather than accustations, insults, etc. like one normally does online. it shows what a good relationship and mutual respect you have
regardless, linus has been running in a new lane lately the last month or so. he's been coming off more of a shill, its all sponsors first with only a hot take for intel, which isn't a hot take, just THE take, and they've started writing crypto into the gpu reviews while subtly defending the use of them. it seems to be more quantity over quantity with the videos to generate ads and sponsors. idk. steve and GN are all class, all tact, and all fact. you can't argue with steve because he's just going to research before he makes a stand. definitely the first place i go for actual facts regarding pc hardware.
Not really professional he looks homeless
Shills be shilling
I'm happy to see this too but god damn it Steve handed Linus his hat. I almost fell out of my chair at WE DECIDED TO WORK WITH A SCRIPT. It's the most nonchalant burn I've ever seen.
@@666thsense Hate to tell you this, but it hasn't been the last month or so. It's been _years._ Maybe you only noticed it recently, but I noticed it years ago when he was interrupting his Threadripper 3000 review to give himself a wedgie to shill underwear. Or rather, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me - I was already pretty sick of the minimum 3, sometimes 4, ads per video. They already did a sponsor spot at the start, another at the end, then they started randomly throwing plugs for their merch in between. Trying to sell something, even your own merch, is still an ad. And that many ads per video is taking the piss.
They didn't even try to integrate the ads well either. This is another area where I have to give Steve/GamersNexus huge credit. At least when they throw in an extra ad for their merch, it's integrated well. When Steve's tearing down a video card and mentions that I can get the modmat he's working on from his store, I don't feel disrespected. I don't feel like the only reason I'm here is to have products sold to me. Heck, if Steve didn't say that, there would be people in the comments asking where to buy that mat from. Absolutely nobody was asking Linus where they can buy his underwear from. Also I've heard "this video was brought to you by US!" on GamersNexus several times as the sponsor spot, meaning there wasn't a paying sponsor for that video (or it was a super negative video that they didn't feel comfortable putting a sponsor's spot into) so they used that as a chance to plug the merch. I _never_ heard that on LTT, it was always paying sponsors in the dedicated sponsor spots and then extra merch shilling on top of that.
And I'm sure someone will bring it up, so I'll respond preemptively. I don't care how many people Linus employs. I don't care how expensive his company is to run. I don't know if he needs to stop hiring so many people so quickly, or stop trying to run so many channels, or stop trying to get so many videos out per day, or whatever. All I care about is the quality of the video I'm watching. And like I said above, when I'm being advertised to that much and with that little regard to being subtle about it, I feel like the quality decreases. It decreased so much in my opinion that I stopped watching. Pointing out Linus's supposed expenses, that none of us actually know in the detail needed to have a proper discussion about if all those ads are justified or not BTW, isn't changing my mind on the video quality. It still feels gross to watch. I still don't want to watch it.
The only caveat I will offer is that it's been years since I watched (like I said, the Threadripper 3000 review was the last straw for me). So maybe some of the stuff I said no longer applies, maybe LTT does things differently now. Although based on the comment I'm replying to, it doesn't sound like it.
Most scalpers sell hardware still in the unopened plastic wrap, they just put themselves in the position of an extra middle-man while selling you brand new hardware.
and all them muh free markets from 2015 be like
>rampant scalping
>chronic shortages and wait lines
>constant deplatforming
>thisisfine.png
@@pandemicneetbux2110 No, it's because of people not having something called PATIENCE. Scalping is typically a self-correcting issue.
yeah, using botting software and cook groups on discord. They are buying them up as soon as they get the ping they are online for sale.
@@pandemicneetbux2110 Scalping is a product of consumers buying scalped products, if people are willing to pay the price the scalper sets, who’s to say that’s not the products value? It’s an agreement between two adults
"It is a waste of your time to learn too much about the 3070Ti"
Well why do you make it so damn entertaining then? It's all your fault!
EXCELLENT.
i do love how GN always explains their methodology and the logic they are basing their conclusions from. you don't have to agree with it but it shows that their testing and eventual opinion is based on a consistent logic path and method. its the sort of journalism that we need.
@Tano Yeah, but even in this rare moment where Steve feels the need to actually go on record against Mr. Sebastian, he gets to immediately lead off with, "...and so I have this ridiculous amount of real world data" and it's instantly to his favor.
It's not Steve's nor GN Staff's problem that others don't have rigorous data.
Fasho
It's good that maths professors say that "3 + 3 = 6". I mean you don't have to AGREE WITH IT! But it's nice to hear it...
(c) Gen Z
@@seguramlk You're either trying to say "for sure" or call him a fascist and I'm not quite sure which
@@bluecollarmage4512 But the data isn't flawless to either side...
"Someone threw a stone at our house and we are just throwing it back through the same hole."
That wasn't a stone you threw back, that was a boulder. 😂
He broke out the trebuchet 😂
@@bronzehd6212 Jesus chris, take your meds. I haven't seen insane paranoia this bad since the communist scare in the 1950s.
Somebody call Chris Redfield immediately!
It’s pronounced “biological warfare”. But ya, GN responded, with shock and awe.
I was hoping Steve would start calling the 3080 and 3070 the "untied" version
Linus’ comments felt tone def. he’s aware of the current market but then defines how the market works... under *normal* circumstances. This is not a normal market. If it was, sure he’d be absolutely right. Unfortunately he’s not this time. And it’s ok to be wrong from time to time. You learn from that.
Actually, pure competition IS the definition of a proper market. Under most circumstances markets are controlled (centralization). Don't listen to Libertarians about markets. Econ major here. ;)
The fact that people pay this deeply for gpus indicates they were undervalued. By definition.
@@armyofninjas9055 All it shows is a fool and his money are easily parted.
@@armyofninjas9055 It is pure supply/demand case. Less supply + more demand = higher prices. I am sure if people calmed down and didn't panic-purchase GPUs, prices would go down. But now, this is self-perpetuating spiral of ballooning prices. We can bust it ourselves by not buying or it will pop because nobody will have money left. Nvidia playing into it for short-term gain is only distorting market more. Just as Wealth of the Nations described it. They can prolong this bubble but burst would be that much painful.
@@armyofninjas9055 bs
linus doesnt learn , he has done this kind of shit talk way more often
The quality of each video goes up the snarkier Steve is.
69 as all things should be
I like snarky steve. He tells it as it is. Hell, why paint a Bob Ross with fluffy white clouds in the current pc climate!
"Using a script, we've pulled data from 679 of GN's top videos based on Like-to-dislike ratio, and utilized an snark-detecting algorithm to conclude this"
i still run evrything at max settings 1440p witn my gtx 970 since 2014? dont belive me? see my videos! my monster pc IS CPU: RYZEN 7 1700
RAM: 16 GB DDR4 3200MHZCL15 GS KILL RIP JAWS
GPU: GTX 970 G1 GAMING
MONITOR: DELLP2416D 24'' 2560X1440 60 HZ IPS
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS PRIME X370 PRO
HDD1: WD BLACK 4 TB
HDD2: 1 TB
CASE: AEROCOOL 800
SSD: MP 600 2TB
PSU: CM 750M 750 WATT
i search since october for a RTX 3080 and havent found it yet but i decided that if i dont find a RTX 3080 or RTX 3080TI or RTX 3070TI until october then i will order a RTX 3070TI and wait. So i wonder... Will my PSU be enough for it or will i need to get a better psu too? Here in Greece right now, cheapest RTX 3070TI is 800 euros the Gigabyte VGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Eagle 8 GB. So for this rtx 3070ti will my psu be enough?
"I'd go toe to toe with steve..." -linus
*so you have chosen death*
lol
*So you have chosen these datasets of these 93,679 graphics cards sold on resale sites to show your argument isn't all flawless?*
I for one look forward to seeing them engage in Mortal Kombat
Ehh linus was right in a non supply limited market, right now its just a shit show
@@jaykoerner right now? It’s been this way for 8 months nearly. This is the market. Linus should’ve known that and taken that into consideration with his argument. There’s no point trying to be right about the market that doesn’t exist.
@@jaykoerner STFU linus fan boy
"Only poors would settle for such a low frame rate" "Please make way for paying customers" 😂😂😂I love you Steve
@ Luminous Fractal What? Get some 💤 try again. Would love to know what your talking about.
I legit thought he said "whores" instead of poors.
Makes more sense in retrospect, but now in slightly dissapointed, lol.
@@luminousfractal420 nice bait
@@kennyj4366 he has said "I don't cook my own food, because I can pay someone to do it for me" before.
Anyone else just fall asleep when listening to gn even though your not tired
Historically cards on green team's side have been out of wack since the 20 series and RTX hit the market. It's like people forgot how good the 1080TI and 1070 were price wise. There isn't even a 400usd option for the newest generation. Even just looking at MSRP. It's all so inflated.
The whole shitshow started with the GTX 600 series (gtx 680 not being the top card, but rather the Titan was the top quality silicon, evidently by their GPU codenames. The trend continued and even now we're being sold mid range GPUs for the price of a high end card, and high end cards for the price of financialsuicide.
My 8 year old 970gtx at about $250 at the time has been the best value ever lol.
True. The 1080 and 1080 Ti were ahead of their time
@@meatbleed wildly ahead of their time. But the problem is that buying a used 1080 Ti for $500 is far more of a risk than a new 3080 at $1k. Yes, its double price, but its new with a warranty. Also, it may be the same as a 1080 as far as lasting 7-8 year with relavence in a gaming rig.
yeah my 970 was the best $350 ish i ever spent on my pc. I never had any issues until i moved to 1440p. Buying my 1080ti for $730 at launch was probably the second best gpu value especially since a month later that card was double the price
When the embargo lifts, Gamers Nexus gets the first click.
Same. I had LTT, GN, Bitwit, and Jay all on the same page at once in my recommended, and GN gets my click.
Amogus
same
ONLY GN and Hardware Unboxed. and Der Bauer.
Yes I do the same first GN then followed by HUB and then the rest of them... since those two channels are the best for reviews.
Coming soon to the GN-store: An actual tie with pictures of GPUs on them.
I would buy that as long as they have it in green, red and blue.
They'll scalp those too!
I work in IT. Would love to wear this at the office.
And that's the closest you'll ever get to a current gen GPU
@@discinfiltrator ;_;
I picked up a 3070ti for the same price as a 3070, so I'm okay with that
Same xD I bought my 3070ti in a bundle with 5800x a while ago, and considering that 5800x was $500 CAD when I bought it, my 3070ti ($1,000) was actually cheaper than a 3070($1200 and out of stock).
Steve, I'm sure I speak for MANY when I say you've got a sub for life here. Integrity is something that can't be bought, even at scalper prices. You've hit this one out of the park!
Steve is a legend
I mean, Linus has integrity too, he's just wrong here.
@@Shotblur aged like milk lmao
"I really dont know what he's basing this on..."
*charts intensify
Steve reminds me of the Comic book guy from the Simpsons. Man just pulled out a 18 page dissertation on Linus😆. Imagine if he didn't like him lol.
Good good, let the intellect flow through you.
@N Webb I don’t get it, why?
You and HUB need a "Back to you Steve" collab or something and it just cuts to monitor Steve
I have pitched the idea to Steve Unboxed!
Aussie Steve..
Short-haired Steve
Damnit this is genius!
Yes, I still hope for a double "monitor Steve" with GamersNexus and HardwareUnboxed.
Especially for reviews, recommended video after this: HUB's 3070ti review. RUclips knows what's up.
"A stone has already come through my house, I'm just throwing it out the same hole that it came through"
I wanted a 3080, I won a 3070 Ti on Newegg shuffle after failing on every BB drop and every previous shuffle. Its a huge upgrade over a 1080 and it's all I could get.... so yeah its only 10% better than a 3070 for too much money but these are hard times. I'm much happier with it than without.
Pretty much me as well. Best buy did a last drop for the end of this year and i wanted to get a 3070 FE. I waited for a while and they ran out, but they had thet ti FE edition. Upgrading from a 1650 super to a 3070ti is a very big one for me. So no matter how many ppl are here saying its a waste of money it aint
@@harold18427lol I upgraded from a 1660 Ti msi gaming x to a 3080 msi gaming z trio, wasn't cheap.
@@AirAssault7 msrp or scalped?
@@harold18427lol Definitely not MSRP.
@@AirAssault7 yikes.. got mine for msrp...
Remember when the Ti models were basically a lot better than their base model counterparts?
3060 Ti is much better than 3060. Unfortunately, that's where is ends for this generation of cards.
@@jonasluks1438 and for most folk that's probably a great card. If you could get one.
I had a Ti4200 once and it was an incredible card. It beat everything on the market. After unlocking the pipeline and OCing it with an OrbII kit, I slaughtered 4600 cards left right and center. Bavk when you could unlock your pipelines yourself..... You could even do it yourself to your CPU. You would pay for a 6000+ AMD and cross pins and get a 6400+ for $100 less. Lmao!! Manufacturers caught on fast.
I member
@Dark Code Same here. No need to upgrade, so why bother.
"the 3070 ti is a great gpu for increasing nvidia's average selling price for shareholder confidence" LOL
It is! Nvidia tie gpus makes shareholders really happy!
:)
@@haukionkannel as shareholder can confirm. Good job nvidia, just need to increase prices a bit more and milk these desperate gamers!
Honestly, I regret not putting money in Nvidia in November.
But on the other hand, I did not loose anything from not making anything, so I just laugh at the current market.
Linus cheque bounced =D He sounded so butthurt and honestly completely out of touch with the real word market.
One person goes by logic and facts while the other one goes by feelings.
Major respect to you Steve. You're one of the few rational and mature RUclipsrs out there. You handled the "conflict" really well and always provide data to back your conclusions. This is top quality tech journalism.
Great video again by the GN team! The graphics at around the 3:50 mark are great examples of what is happening. I study economics and in behavioural economics they use the term “anchoring”. It’s a well researched phenomenon and the 3070 Ti is 100% a classic example of this; trying to look sane with reference to an absurd comparison (being the 3080 Ti).
Excellent observation.
Very interesting
Courtesy of Edward Bernays, first of his name, King of Public Relations, and the rise of cigarettes, Lord of Propaganda, and Protector of Economic growth, nephew to Sigmund Froyd (who taught him the secrets of the human mind in exchange for help escaping Nazi Germany)
He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named
I earnestly encourage everyone to check his story, one of the grandest stranger than fiction stories of modern time.
@@Dogzilla07 what the fuck?
yes
@@Dogzilla07 ok, I'm in the rabbit hole now. Thank you. *Smokes a lucky strike to be a thin woman*
0:36 The cooler at 0db is so impressive, it even sucks your money in with no effort...
great joke, great use of timestamp. 10/10
Plot twist: the fan generates heat to reduce mining performance
I watch both Linus and Steve. I watch Linus for entertainment and keeping up to date. I go to GN before I buy anything and I trust a GN review implicitly. LMG sells us new technology, GN holds companies marketing departments to task.
Although there are lots of jibes from Linus, JayzTwoCents I think they all know that GN is possibly the most important hardware RUclips channel. GN and Louis Rossmann are super heroes in my opinion.
Thank-you tech Jesus. You are one of our only hopes.
LTT is merely an advertisement haven at this point. I stick with GN or Hardware Unboxed for ACTUAL reviews.
Same here 💯
Linus's anecdotal evidence getting blown away by hard data, noyse.
@N Webb GN get along with LMG because Steve is mature. Not the kind that feeds off stupid dramas. He doesn't get offended just because people have different opinions than his. I like Linus, but the guy can be annoying at times when he has a different view on things.
Linus has been pretty bad about thinking his subjective opinion is objective
Linus Is a LOST GUY....
That vaccine must be getting to him.
Linus Shill Tips
I love the content. Your professionalism is on full display here, and it should be commended. So thank you for showing your audience how the pros disagree and debate without slander. We need more of this across the internet.
LLT: *does a few scrap wars episodes*
LTT: "I know how second hand markets work now!
This thing, linus just coming from his gut while steve hoards data is the way I've always had these 2 channels in my mind. Expectations verified.
What I love about this channel is the length you guys would go to prove a point, statistically or mathematically. And that's good.
Dude they got the math wrong on the simple price increase… being a math teacher can’t help but point that out… he basing his opinion on faulty math to start…
Linus: "and that's something I'd be happy to go toe-to-toe with Steve on"
Steve: "...hold my beer. let's talk about the data..."
Glad y'all are still keeping it professional. :)
Linus shoots from the hip and tends to hit Rambo style...
Steve? He shoots like a sniper and wants to make that one shot count.
More like:
Linus: "and that's something I'd be happy to go toe-to-toe with Steve on"
Steve: _And I took that _*_personally._*
Gamers Nexus takes a scientific approach to their results and findings that gives it credence. Linus is entertaining as a content creator in the tech sphere but I feel like taking a shot a GN was just to get some "Marketing" done.
I don't understand how some people can spend so much on video cards every year just for a less than 10% gain, I prefer to wait for major milestones like a new dx generation or a new pci-e revision.
Well usually there are 3 big groups.
-PCMR buys the top tier stuff whenever it’s released.
-People are about to upgrade from their 900-1000 series or older high end cards.
-Mid tier users. I think the 50-60 cards get “outdated” faster than the big boys. I guess a lot of people like to spend less more often than to spend a lot every couple of years.
Oh, I’ve almost forgot about the hiding aces.
The assholes with the train pass. They go and whine wherever the hate train takes them to.
In 2021 they can appear to be important by whining about that they can’t buy the shit that they wouldn’t buy -or couldn’t buy- anyway. ✌️
@@davidlakatos9904 i went from a Radeon HD5000 series to a Radeon RX5000 series GPU. Kind of interesting how in about 10 years they returned to the same numbers. Went mid both times and survived. Got carried through the later days with gaming mainly on 3ds because I really enjoyed the games on it.
That is because they don't replace them every year. The card they are replacing is not last years model, it is the model from 3 to 5 generations back.
Why would I care that the current card is less than 10% better than the previous generation when the card I am actually replacing is 680Ti? The jump from the previous generation is irrelevant.
Let‘s keep saying “Tie” until everyone forgets what the right way of saying used to be. Loved how he switched nonchalantly within the video.
Tie fighter vs Thai fighter
Niktek made a great meme video about Nvidia entering the fashion industry with their ties
We all know retcons always lead to awesome stories
But Ti has always been what it’s called. The community re named it T I and we’ll it stuck. Ti is shorthand for titanium as in the element. But yeah.
It’s T I.
Nah.
How can you use something as unreliable as actual data, when Linus' feeling are so much more accurate?
I like Linus but Steve unequivocally tells is how it is.
Just bought a Tuf 3070 Ti today because it was $50 cheaper than the 3070 lol. Got it for $700+ tax and the regular Tuf 3070 was sitting on the shelf for $755 at microcenter. So I figured I’d pick one up and replace my 1080Ti that I planned to use for probably another 2 years. Guess I don’t have to do that now
im kinda in the same boat, i skipped 2000 series cause the price increase wasn't worth the minimal power increase over the 1080 ti. Well fast forward to 3000 series and yeah lol. That being said prices are looking a lot better but stuck trying to decide what to get. was leaning towards 3070 or 3070 ti but the 8gb kinda sucks if i decide to move from 1440 to 4k. Could get the 6700xt but then miss out on ray tracing. on the other hand could wait for the 3080/6800 to drop a little more in price
Prices are too high for tech, even at MSRP. Think i'm probably just gonna get a new hobby. Congratulations AMD and Nvidia on pushing away your customers.
Pushed away nothing those cards sell regardless if u purchase it or not and they will sell for more than what your willing to pay. I understand your frustration tho it sucks ass when waited over a year for gpu to finish a pc build. It would take insane amount customers to not purchase these cards make them change there sales strategies. Problem is no real competition atm.
Yea we have a lot of idiots in this world. Scalpers just as bad as salesman and marketers. Human scum. Then you have the idiots that will go out and spend over $1k on a card smh while those companies laugh their asses off at them.
When you are making 100k a day, problem is ,, yu don’t cafe
>AMD
Sir that's not their fault besides giving into their nature as a soulless profit hungry corporation.
Really it comes down to corps like Intel and nVidia (especially Apple) for relying solely on brand recognization over hardware performance to dupe philistines into paying ridiculous premiums for bupkus. I like AMD because they actually emphasize the hardware. It used to be that I could rely on Intel to at least value the technology itself, and not feeling totally scammed. I had a concrete image of my dream system being a high end, triple fanned, upper K sku Intel/nVidia rig which when I finally built my system in 2020 it ended up becoming an AMD/AMD.
Why? Because the math didn't add up. $200 premium for basically the same performance+upscaling a gimmick implemented on like 3 games. Total system cost inflation by like $300 because of Intel tax not just on getting the board, but also now having to pay for more cooling for the monstrous 14+++++++++ power consumption/thermals. Having to pay even moar to get a higher end PSU to power all this. And then by the time it came down to brass tacks I realized not only I actually wasn't getting anything more, but in fact I was getting even *less*. I'd've had no PCIe 4.0 boot drive on 10700k or whatever. Comparing Asrock Taichi to Taichi, I'd have fewer features on their board, but then it costs $50 more anyway. Why?? For what purpose?? Because the brand name I used to trust a decade ago as being the best?
Kudos to guys like Jay, Steve and so on for diving into this stuff because otherwise I probably would've wasted hundreds and hundreds more in complete ignorance. The Wraith Prism pushed it over the edge because the cost of getting the same level performance would be so much more on Intel that I'd already be paying a tier or two higher on AMD if I spent the money there anyway.
Main thing AMD fucked up imho is this gen they didn't provide neato included stock coolers as much and charged more. They can't act like they're Intel. It greatly expanded the performance range within my budget.
The whole reason why prices are this high is because of a massive influx of new customers (miners) so nobody really cares really cares what your hobbies are.
14:25 Sneaky Tie in the graphs I like it.
Hahahaha. Wondered if anyone would notice that!
@@chrisj9961 In the legend, upper-right hand corner “3080 Tie AVG Fan RPM”
Came looking for this comment.
But saw the 3070 tie in the graph.
I was laughing hard at that one lol, very subtle!
Love it when people fight with facts, not insults or assumptions.
Facts are the ONLY thing that matter anyway. Everything else is "hot air"
[YT has a bot that deletes factual comments]
True. Like clearly Linus and Steve disagree here, but they don't care and it'll be done and dusted without any real fights
Only way to win a debate really
Linus really was unprofessional throughout his review, and his Wan appearance. The Livestream chat was rabidly hating on him for what he did, and I agree, Linus really made a mistake. You just destroyed him with data, and I love that.
Disagree, mostly because anything you can seem as unprofessional was mostly in jest between him and Steve, also Steve agreed with him historically just not in the current case
Man, I bought a Vega 56 for $150 before all of this went down. It's so tempting to sell it for well over what I bought it for and take a hiatus from gaming, but at the same time there is no end in sight and I'd rather not be without a GPU for 2 years.
How about you just mine with it for like 2 months and there is ur 150 bucks back and more😀
Extra proud of Steve time and time again, holds to his values, consistent opinions, and thorough reviews. Can't be any more disappointed in Linus, who is tripling down on his 3080Ti review.
Steve's review is great, but you have to keep in mind perspective. Linus and Steve both have different points of reference, and preferred baseline aside, both the reviews are valid from their respective perspectives. I personally agree with most of the points Steve makes here, but just because Linus' chosen perspective doesn't apply to me, does not invalidate his results. Linus went against the grain and released a review for a more niche group of buyers, the only people who would actually buy this card, and ironically a group that no one else was catering to. If that's not for you, literally every other tech channel has released a review to line up with your needs. As Steve said, releasing an overpriced product just because there are people who will pay for it, at the expense of most of the people who can't, is a scummy move; regardless, there are people who will pay it, so they deserve consideration from the review space.
If you hold the opinion that the 3090 is a gaming card, and you were willing to buy it, then Linus' review is more applicable than Steve's. Not only that, the fact that the 3080Ti uses less VRAM and shares a cooler with the 3080 means that while the total number of GPUs on the market might not change, they may be able to produce more 3080Tis than 3090s. Furthermore, if you are the kind of person who doesn't want to pay scalpers, but at the same time don't care about performance value and will buy anything that meets or exceeds you minimum performance threshold at any price, so long as it's MSRP from a retailer, then the only thing you need to see is if that card meets the minimum specs.
@@XDSDDLord I appreciate your well thought out comment. I'm merely just noticing throughout the years, Steve has always been the same. Whether he had 100K subs, or 1 million subs. He never relents, and is always of the opinion that is best for gamers.
Linus meanwhile, has flip flopped on too many occasions, and at this point looks like he pretends to care about the average people. His stance on the 3080Ti is proof of that.
@@XDSDDLord My issue with the LTT review is that it was filmed before the price was announced. I think everyone involved at LTT assumed it would be priced at $999, and went ahead and filmed the review. The only mention of the price was a prerecorded 2 second disappointed face clip which they shoehorned into the video afterwards.
Not knowing the price means that at the end of the review when Linus exclaims that purchasing it at MSRP is a "no brainer", Linus was just blindly recommending a product. It didn't matter if the 3080Ti were $899 or $1399, the conclusion of the LTT video would remain "Just buy it!". I'd expect that level of blind product shilling from Tom's Hardware. (to be clear, I don't think Linus is a paid NVIDIA shill, I just think he was excitedly recommending a product when he didn't have all the facts)
@@XDSDDLord "Linus went against the grain and released a review for a more niche group of buyers, the only people who would actually buy this card"
And who would that niche group be? Steve already demonstrated that the 3080Tie doesn't offer enough gaming performance compared to price over the 3080 to be worth it for gamers, and the 3080Tie doesn't offer enough VRAM to be worth it to the people that see value in the 3090. The 3080Tie isn't even for the people who want the absolute best gaming performance, price and sense be damned, because the 3090 outperforms it. So who's the niche for the 3080Tie? It's not gamers looking for a good value, it's not gamers looking for the best of the best, and it's not professionals looking for loads of VRAM. The 3080Tie is for nobody.
@@jonlaw16 Yeah, they _really_ should have waited for the price and then wrote the script and filmed the review. The way they did is just stupid. There's no way you can make a decent review like that, because without all the information, you can't compare accurately to competing products. I don't get - why on earth do it this way? Are they that crunched for time? A late review would have been better than this. No review would have been better than this. Doing it the way LTT did it seems like worst case scenario to me.
Linus arguments is very odd considering the current situation, he should be well aware how scalpers work.
I completely ignore him altogether.
Yea its weird of Linus to keep defending Nvidia, cause its not like Linus had never shyt on Nvidia before. It feels Mr leather man Huang drugged Linus to give positive reviews on their products xD
@@lucas_vlanc Although linus says he is not a fanboy,I do think that he loves Intel and Nvidia.
His take on both 3080ti and 3070ti is delusional and just stubborn by now and I find that really dissapointing
@@abimangalan I don't think so. Anyone that fanboys over computer hardware brands instead of just buying whats best for their purpose and money does not have enough braincells to build a channel that big
I remember when "ti" actually meant that a card was much faster than the non ti version. The 1070 ti, for example, is closer to a 1080 in performance than a 1070.
3060ti
I'm still rocking the 1070 ti, since I couldn't buy a 3080 when it launched. Still a beast for 1440p.
Wow, you were able to remember 4 years ago! Linus wasn't able to do that
GeForce 3 Ti was better than GeForce 4 SE
I mean 3060ti is very close to 3070, 3080ti is close-ish to 3090
I just bought a 3070ti. Why you may ask based on your review. Well here in the UK the average price for the 3070ti is £699 (approx $915 as of writing). The 3080 starts at £899 ($1175), so quite a price difference upwards. Going down to the 3070, they're almost impossible to get hold of. So I'm pretty happy to get hold of one. Had the 3070 been more readily available like the Ti, then I might've been a bit more considerate in my purchase decision.
This is the same reason why i got my rtx 3070ti. I got mine for £525
Spending 12 minutes to show data for a "listen here, you little shit" lol. I love it.
Steve must defend his review publicly. Even if he isn't actually upset at Linus (which I highly doubt he is). So "Listen here you little shit" feels a little too aggressive.
@@bronzehd6212 Gotta elaborate on that
Sometimes it is better to keep your opinion to yourself.
@@realWARPIG yeah we should probably stop feeding the troll... although let me just squeeze this in because it's too ironic to not call it out!
Bronze HD: Accuses GN of fabricated data
sadnehs: ok where's your data/proof to validate that statement
Bronze HD: " I'm not gonna get them so why would I even try? I'm just stating the facts"
right....so using fabricated and non existing information to then accuse someone else of of fabricating data...
I mean dude is either a troll (and a very obvious one), or the dude is so delusional, I actually fear for the people around him.
@@bronzehd6212 I'm not even American 😂! I'm sorry, I'm enjoying laughing at your expense too much and its mean, but I mean you're either trying to portray a cartoon idiot and this is just a caricature/online persona. Or you are being serious and in which case it goes from cartoonish hilarious to just...outright sad? Yeah i mean you are either deliberately trying to be ironically foolish or you really are just someone who spouts rubbish without actually checking your facts so...I'm a bit conflicted should I be laughing at your caricature work or should I be sad that this is really how you are IRL?🤔
"It runs like a slideshow." I almost fell out of my chair.
I had to rewind, I was like wait what?! It totally got me.
"...if that slideshow shows a new slide every 2.5ms."
"Yes, 911...I want to report a murder."
That whole bit where he was talking about how playing under 300 fps was peasant like was hilarious.
I bough that card today. The 3070 is out of stock and i want to game during holliday season. Since the TI is 50.00 more i bough it anyway. I hope i will enjoy gaming with it! (in 1440p and 1080p)
same, we should be good right now the price difference wasn't more then 100$ and the rtx 3000's line in general have been great GPU's im still on a 1070 for me it'll be perfect.
Same. I bought a 3070Ti FE as it was the best card I could afford at the time and replaced my old 960GTX.
I like this. Dude is calling it how it is. I'm hoping one day we can go back to the good ol days of normal prices and plenty of supply on all components.
20:38 "Read the room NVidia" unfortunately they did, but they were in the room that said this is a great product...
They were in a room full of stacks of cash
yea, its almost like times change and bitching about how prices "ArE NoT ReAsOnAbLe" is refusing to acknowledge the current facts of price (cost to make and margin made) along with the demand. Its steve whos refusing to read the room, because hes upset about it.
Seriously, the number of people ive seen drooling over the 3090 and 5950x for gaming tells me theyll be kicking down best buys door for these
Their room is full of miners
"....rather get shot in the arm than the face!" That's Golden! 😆
I also like the glass house one. :D
The stone is already inside and he throws it back out :D
Linus got beaten with a bar... chart.
Can I just say, as a statistician, I really value that you always provide empirical evidence on such a basic concept. It really makes purchasing decisions much more valid for myself! Thank you for the amazing effort you put in just to make a recommendation
I wasn't able to get a 3070, so getting an MSRP 3070ti that works out cheaper than buying a scalped 3070, is fine by me. I wanted to pay 500 for a 3070 but with current world events the 100 more for a little bit of extra performance kinda feels like buying a car and then finding a £5 note under the seat.
Same here in Canada. 3070 and 3070 ti are at the same price in april 2022 (900 to 1000 CAD). 3080 are 400$ to 500$ more expensive.
i just got a new 3070ti for 700 so i was honestly happy with that
@@Tillermundo same I just bought a 3070ti fe for 599
the 3080 Tie may not be a good value, but hey, at least we have a new meme xD
now, "Back to you Steve!"
Can't wait for new RTX Teetan
@@kristian77ful A 3080 Thai unboxing match you say? 🤔
Isn't it short for 'Titanium'? If so, it makes sense, although it still hurts to hear...
Might be worth $1,200 just for the memes!
@@itIsI988 I think it's short for a Titanic... As in about to hit an iceberg
Glad you called out Linus. It isn't reviewers jobs to give companies a pass for screwing customers, even if market conditions allow for it and shareholders demand it.
But that wasn't what Linus meant though. And he clarified as much in the WAN show. I really feel that it wasn't a bad take or it was him giving Nvidia a pass. At this point, I kinda feel that people are trying to make a scapegoat out of him to have not followed all the other reviewers like sheep and for having a genuine take.
@@adblockturnedoff4515 nah the wan show clarification is also not a good response
@@tarkfarhen3870 Resources and investment foster innovation more than the profit motive ever could. The profit motive gives you the same cod/madden every year. The profit motive has homogenized social media features. The profit motive gives you the current market conditions for absurdly priced gpus.
@@masyan3457 I mean what do you want him to do? Grovel at your feet and beg for forgiveness for speaking his mind? He did agree that Nvidia's strategy hurts other cards in its line up. It is cannibalizing (he didn't say so exactly. It is me paraphrasing). But other than that he doesn't feel the need to take back what he said.
Linus has apologized in the past when he felt that he has made a genuine mistake. But this right here is just mob going after him asking for his head IMO. I am sensing cancel culture coming to tech space.
EDIT: And by you I don't specifically mean you. It is just the manner of speaking/writing
@@tarkfarhen3870 To foster innovation...
The guy isn't saying that profit ISN'T one of the reasons to invest in a company, but that it shouldn't be the SOLE reason, because it creates stagnation (why he mentioned cod and madden).
NVidia is doing what intel did a few years ago. They are bullying the consumers because they are (for now) the best option. Until AMD does to them what it did to Intel, and forces them to stop (or at least reduce) doing anti-consumer stuff like the releases of RTX 3080TI and 3070TI clearly are.
Of course, that is if AMD doesn't also go to the anti-consumer route.
Linus mentions GN on WAN show.
GN: so, you've chosen charts.
That linus part sounds like 2 people in wheel chairs talking about basketball
Damn. I've never seen you smoke somebody so nicely with the 'we used data' line. You guys are the best and EASILY the most credible tech info source on YT. Keep up the good work, guys.
3070 Ti retroactively makes the 6800 look reasonably priced, even though the latter seemed overpriced given 6800 XT msrp.
AMD: Good job Nvidia?!
Yeah, I got a 5700 XT just before all this kicked off and raised an eyebrow when I saw the pricing of the RDNA2 cards.
Considering the 6700 XT was a direct replacement, it was a bit of a price jump.
But like you said, it was nvidia's 30 series pricing which probably played the biggest role as amd could undercut but it was still a high price.
Steve: Shakes table and asks if I am nervous. Me: Nah you not Linus we fine... :D
From a journalistic point of view I respect GN more than LTT. GN's been unbiased, factual and often called out manufacturers when they fall short and as a consumer I have more trust on GN. I can't describe it but LTT changed their tone towards their sponsors (Nvidia being one them, albeit having only sponsored a few videos), they have a corporate sounding, business friendly voice now. Linus even mentioned in one of his videos that Jensen did not like his review and won't sponsor LTT but once they got the sponsor their tone changed.
From a tech standpoint, I don't think it's even a close comparison. LTT has made some absolutely boneheaded decisions that reveal just how little they actually know, but GN knows this field backwards and forwards.
Steve, you’re the best tech reviewer. Always straight to the point, no BS or defending major corporations. Most informative and knowledgeable. Thanks for doing what you do!
and isn't arrogant in the face of criticism
@@s13shaka and that's exactly why i still use a 1070 LOL
@@s13shaka but why does Nvidia have to be stupid too? He's criticizing them for taking advantage of a situation that was caused by a global pandemic, which I feel like is pretty deserved.
@@s13shaka miners and scalpers, gamers may be some part of why stock is impossible to get but it's mainly due to scalpers and miners. So no it's not gamers.
@@itsasadbunny Scalpers only exist because they have a line of people throwing money at their feet. All of this goes away the minute the customer base refuses product at an inflated price point.
It's convenient to blame the big bad corporations, but they are making cards... in Nvidia's case, more of the 3000 series then they did the 2000 series... The problem is that demand has seen a huge spike and the supply chains will take a long time to catch up... so either you pay inflated prices or you don't... but don't blame the corporations or the scalpers... neither of them are forcing anybody to participate in a fucked marketplace.
I was hoping you would speak on what Linus said. I always respect your channel as you don’t hide and say what’s real here good or bad and that’s all I’d ask for and hopefully others feel the same.
what did he say?
At least equated scalpers to the second hand market, which ... is stupid.
@@hc7185 watch Linus 3080ti review and compare it to Steves 3080ti review
@@Zenheizer thank you, will do
@@ashkebora7262 No? At this point they are one in the same, even if you dont like as much
I think 3070ti or 6800xt are best at that price range, right now.
Yep because the 3060ti is still too expensive and the 3080 is now diluted with the 12GB version, the 3070ti seems the least overpriced currently at the mid to high end
Linus: I'll go toe-to-toe with Steve on this.
GN Datasets: You never had toes.
Everyone else: why are you wearing socks to cover your toes in sandals?
18:35 can't help myself from smiling with such a delicate and brutal take down of Linus smugness
Does anyone get the feeling that Steve is unimpressed by this card and Linus' argument?
I think you might be on to something here
The line about rather being shot in the arm then the face made me crack up.
Prices in EU; 3070-Doesn't exist. 3070ti:€850-900. 3080:€1.250-1.300. 3080ti:€1500. Even if you say "don't buy it" seems like we don't have much choice. Price/performance of other cards are ridiculous rn.
Haven’t followed LTT for a while now since their “reviews” more blatantly began to be less objective and just outright ads, glad to know I’m not missing anything.
I unsubbed from them a while back because of something similar happening and here we go again, he does it again. Color me surprised.
This is what happens when you are rich to the point where $1200 GPU’s are considered pennies in currency.
@@michaelbeleut6480 Wealth and yellow fever changes a man.
To me it's like the difference between Network News and Cable News
Gamers Nexus is like Network News in that it's just news and based just on the facts
LTT is like Cable News in that it's actually entertainment and based on opinion and not really news
I unsubscribed after Linus decided to be stupid on the WAN show. I don't *need* them and I'm going to vote with my clicks. Fuck em.
Same, LTT has become more click-bait with b-movie entertainment without a lot of substance. I finally stopped following LTT 5 months ago and I don't miss 'em.
Linus: This is the way.
Internet: This is not the way.
Linus is realistic. You know that those cards are going to be bought at MSRP even by people who have no interest in using one. For the people digging through couch cushions looking for money to buy a graphic card, this is obviously not worth it. Then again, what card is worth the money now?
Steve was bitching about the prices of latest AMD APUs that offer decent gaming performance. If even that isn't a good value there there is no good value card/APU at all.
As usual a few people will cry on the internet then join the rest and be happy to buy the cards for MSRP.
@@sdfjsdjfghssfgdsgvfs do you really think these cards will be sold at msrp in this market situation?
@@sdfjsdjfghssfgdsgvfs Haha, they can keep their cards for those prices xD
@@thecombokiller2 only a small number, that's what Linus said, at that price it's a great value. But Steve still says it's shit. That's the point.
@@G1lgamesj Not like I'm gonna buy one anyway. I'm keeping my gtx 1060 for another year at least. It's just that steve spent so much time griping about the value of 3080TI and how bad it was when a top tier card was never a good value.
I recently bought a 3070 ti at a micro center. I was hoping for a 3060, but at this point i just need a gpu and went for it.
I think Linus had a valid point when we are talking about used hardware. I mean, obviously, product tiers still exist in the 2ndhand market and that's what the MSRP is based on. So, to some extent, the MSRP will still influence the 2ndhand prices. But on top of that, since it is a 2ndhand market, what the community is willing to pay for it, basically supply and demand, will also partly influence the 2ndhand prices. So, there are 2 factors generating the overall 2ndhand prices, and the consumer valuation of the product, in the case of GPU obviously rely a lot on performance. BUT when we are talking about scalped prices or resale prices of new hardware here, then yes it would be strongly correlated with the MSRP it launches with since it is a NEW product. I think you (Steve) and Linus are making points on two different prices.
For those doubting this card only exists to take advantage of the scalper pandemic, consider this:
For a 17% price increase (theoretically), the 3080 gives you 42% more CUDA cores & 25% more memory capacity AND bandwidth.
1070Ti was 10% slower than 1080, but 20% cheaper...guess they wont make this "mistake" again
3080 is realistically 1k from aib partners
@Ethan Sifford if you think it's a gaming card, then you fallen for their marketing tactics. 99% of gamers Do Not need this card. It's for professionals, 3D rendering, Animation, Ai, Game Development, Content creation, other Creative applications... etc. They market to gamers to make more money, its called advertising
@@Riley_Christian He said 3080, not 3090. The 3080 falls just short of prosumer territory at 10 GB VRAM, which I think is intentional. It's certainly a bit on the small side for some GANs I'm interested in testing out.
@@heycid2 That is complete BS the 3080 and 3060ti are the best value in the Ampere line up.
God. It's like nVidia isn't even trying to hide the fact that they're capitalizing on limiting their consumer supply purposefully. What a terrible time to be building a PC in.
They don't need to hide it. You'll all come crawling back for more when they announce the 4000 series. It's been proven time and again that there's nothing Nvidia can do that will put their fanboys off, from threatening reviewers and AIBs to gouging as hard as they can, it'll all be forgotten by the time they show the new shiny, just like GPP and all the other awful shit they've done in the past.
There still is a semiconductor shortage. I'm not an nVidia fan but there are other factors.
@@thaddeuscosse9527 covid, short-staffed, water shortage Taiwan, no chip, scalper err what else? Care to add anyone?
I don't think they're intentionally limiting consumer supply, it's just that miners and scalpers really are buying them up that fast, so nVidia figures they might as well really start cashing in on that. But they could absolutely make even more money if they had more GPUs.
@sameer Ansari why would they?
I feel like you spent most of the video just talking about the 3080ti and it's ridiculous MSRP, not the performance 3070ti vs lower cards. Who buys cards at MSRP? With the recent Black Friday sale, the 3060ti was priced at $300 and the 3070ti was priced at $400, making the upgrade look a lot better. That's why talking about performance is much more important than focusing on the scam MSRP. Obviously prices are always changing, but MSRP is a joke.
"We're on 'good' terms..."
Doesn't sound like it.
Sounds like LTT's getting irrationally defensive.
Turns out my 1080 Ti was a good investment - it still plays modern titles fine at 1440p *and* I can even sell it for what I bought it for three years ago. The market is whacked right now.
Swooped in at the last moment to upgrade from r9 290 to used non-ti 1080 at $260, started worrying I was being impatient and wasting money. Feel like a genius now ...well lucky, anyway.
My GTX 1660 Tie was a good investment, if I sell it, I can basically trade in my 1660 Ti for an RTX 3070 Ti, provided I get lucky. I doubt I'll be lucky, but who knows
Bought a GTX 1080 in 2016. It felt like a lot of money to spend back then, but nothing compared to this crazy market.
Sure you could sell it, but what would you then use yourself? I can sell my 1070ti for more than I originally bought it for, but then I'm stuck having to pay massively over MSRP to replace it. (It's kind of the same as the insane housing market now.)
Daaaaamn, Steve is gonna be living rent free in Linus' head after this one!
(From Canada) I've been using GTX 1070 (legendary card imo) and recently got the 3070Ti in sale (20% off MSRP) and I'm pretty satisfied. With the current market this is the best I can do for now.
I think linus may have missed the main point, that in the current supply shortage typical competition and substitution (incl used market) effects go out the window. But similarly, msrp isn't really an anchor or floor just a starting point for the market to adjust to what everyone knows will in the short term be a much higher price.
Ngl, even though this isn't a beef, I do find Linus's take to be a bit embarrassing & unprofessional. Stand by your statements without dragging other people into it.
His 3070ti review was a bit more dialed in. But man, that 3080ti review was a dumpster fire.
You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to double-down on their conclusion
It's amazing how much raw, liquid sarcasm you guys can put into a video and still come off professional and respectful. I love it.
@@bronzehd6212 found the linus simp
I see why he pronounced it as "TIE" .... there's an 'E' added for "Expensive", cleverrrr
Should be TEI, for Tiny Expensive Improvement
Those blue bars at the side of your slides really made me happy.
Nvidia: We're the scalpers now.
I'm going AMD for my next card, though the pricing hasn't been a lot better.
Pricing for the AIB AMD cards has been god awful though lol. 6700XT for $900+ lmao
As long as AMD doesn't do anything similar with any potential refresh cards, I have a feeling there will be some subconscious public sentiment in their favour
@@realWARPIG as long as it's not AMD doing the scalping first-party...
AIB can charge what they want. The 6700XT is $549CAD which AIB versions start at $1199CAD in-store.
Don't confuse the e-commerce scalper prices with manufacturer prices.
@@barronhelmutschnitzelnazi2188 Yeah AIB's have jacked up the prices more on AMD cards than Nvidia cards for whatever reason. 6700XT is between a 3060tie and a 3070, but you can't get one under $900 anymore, except from AMD directly, which sells them for $479.
Linus is just out of touch. He formed a fairly large successful company. So he doesn't have to stress himself with small details like scalper markets.
I don't think he is out of touch, just he made an emotional response instead of an educated one.
Keep in mind, the same person that people are calling a Nvidia shill is the same person who said, "Fuck you, Nvidia" after they messed with hardware unboxed.
He has an opinion. That is completely fine. He even admitted that it's only good in the current market. Once the dust settles, he said it won't be a good deal, probably.
I think both are right in a sense and are kinda talking past the other.
Linus's point is that everyone is going to want to buy these cards at MSRP because the innate value is much higher based upon the market. He also states that the 3080ti slots into a spot that is below the 3090 and not so much an uplift of the 3080 which allows NVidia to produce more chips than they would with 3090s because of the difference in RAM. That framing makes a world of difference. His points about the second hand market value is more in terms of normal supply and demand and not the topsy turvey world that we live in whereas Steve highlighted today's current market (Linus did mention that these are not normal times in the Wan Show).
Steve is pressing on the point that with the current state of the market NVidia releasing another line of cards you cannot buy for a marginal performance gain is a slap in the face to gamers. I completely get it, another card no one will be able to buy leads to feel bads all over the place. My problem with the take is just that these chips were likely in the works to be released early this year and were derailed as a result of the worldwide supply issues. Jayz2Cents made the point that NVidia does not want this situation as much as anyone else. They would much prefer that everyone be able to buy a GPU, but at the same time they cannot stop their progress on new products even though the current world will not receive it with open arms as they would in normal times.
I love both channels and tune into both daily. Steve is channeling more anger at the situation than Linus is and he is not wrong to do so, but at the end of the day, the salt doesn't really help that much. This time sucks for everyone and it hurts not just these guys, but the community as a whole. Just hold strong everyone, this will end sooner or later. Don't give into scalpers if you can help it.
He just kind of refuses to admit he was wrong now and won't back down. I don't think he's out of touch, he understands how shit the situation is for most people. That's obvious due to him starting the verified gamer program to help regular people get GPUs.
@@raawesome3851 so no mention that Linus had no idea who Hardware Unboked were?
you know.... one of the biggest channels when it comes to performance comparisons...
Linus seems pretty out of touch
Yes and no. Linus came from the perspective of a baby 3090, and GN came from the perspective of a 10% performance increase for a ridiculous markup. None of them are criminally wrong, but in the present context, GN has the smartest take, which Linus admitted.
LTT is trying to sell GPUs at decent prices, he's not THAT out of touch, he gets the market and wants to do something.
In my country when i was buying 3070ti it was actually cheaper than 3070 so it's hard to tell that one gpu is more affordable than other bcs they are all not affordable . I know that i bought my gpu some around 150% MRSP but i also sold my old gpu much higher than I expected, and im sure the prices will never go back to MRSP. Hard times for gamers.
The methodic way GN conducts it's benchmarks and handles it's data and charts is the most scientifically professional I've seen on youtube so far. I'd think thrice before calling out GN on anything because it pretty damn sure looks like they know what they are doing. Best review channel I know of. And also with news.