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I have watched so many marathon pace strategy videos, this advice stands out especially the consideration of cognitive load. It entirely makes sense that would be a drain on your valuable energy stores. Great video.
It's something I gave no thought to, very glad to have viewed this. Fortunately my next marathon has pacers and I've decided to stick with them for this very reason and your video! @@RunSmarterwithBrodieSharpe
Great video Brodie, thanks! After running my first marathon on the trails without any time goal last year, coming Sunday i'll have my first 'pancake' road marathon and was struggling on finding a pacing strategy. This is going to help me a lot!
Thank you for the tips! Got the sf marathon in two days and I’m freaking out haha my training was plagued with injuries. My goal is just to cross the finish line
Since I started running marathons way before GPS watches and only had the Timex chrono type watch what we used to do was pre race figure out the splits at each mile I then wrote most of these either on my bib ( upside down so I could just tip up my shirt and see the split time) Or write them on the back of my hand Usually I’d include the 5 and 10 and 14 and 18 splits I usually stopped at 20 cos by then it was just hang on for whatever you got left I hesitate to follow pacers as I sometimes they aren’t always accurate and I don’t like giving up too much control to someone else I still write times down for important races Great video Thanx
I definitely prefer to start at a pace slightly below what I know I can hold and being able to do the second half about 5% better and still end on what my best average pace is
A really good video. I also had not thought about cognitive load and would do math extrapolating from current location and time where I was on pace to arrive. I can’t usually use pacers because they don’t have any with marathon times more than 5 hours. Anyway, this year I’m focusing more on trails and halfs so it’s okay. Where I struggle is at the start of a couple of my favorite road half marathons we climb from sea level up a long hill, mix that with the energy surge of the start of a race and it’s just reminding myself it’s all for fun and health, short uphill intervals mixed with walking when I can’t go any more.
2 weeks ago I did my 3rd marathon. I was trying to get 2:50 but I dont know why I start every time way to fast (and I know it's a big mistake), I passed the half in 1:21 and I hitted the wall early at km 30.Cramped till the end and closed with new PB in 2:54 :c I feel like I can do my goal! my PB was 2:59 4 months ago 🤟
fantastic video, thank you! About to do my first marathon in London and this has really helped to confirm and go into detail negative split/ easy going start that I'm really hoping to stick to and not get carried away like it seems so many people do 🙏
I need to work on something. My Oct marathon 3h8m but my best HM is 1h32m. Which means double 1h32m = 3h4m + 4m for my marathon time. Either I have more slow twitch muscle fibers or I need to work on my HM time.
The conservative approach you described worked very well for me - I ran a consistent 8:05 pace at the recent Berlin marathon right to the end. Of course that was a very flat marathon. I am a less sure how to approach the NYCM in 2 weeks, given that I have already run a marathon recently and that it is a hillier course throughout.
What do you think about a strategy based on heart rate? So for example, in a marathon doing the first 5K at no more than 150 BPM, then the majority of the race at no more than 160 or 165, then the last 5K with no limit.
I mean those Billat people have lots of papers saying that you should spend the majority of your race below your goal time pace with smaller much faster intervals. The science isn't as unequivocal as Dr. Hanley suggests. One paper might be "Marathon Performance Depends on Pacing Oscillations between Non Symmetric Extreme Values" by Pycke and Billat.
I use to just run how i felt in training no speed sessions but would alway run a 10 mile run slightly faster than my 15 and 20 mile,i ended up doing 10 dublin marathons under 3 hours and my best time was 2:53 min 😁
Could you share links to the research that suggests that thinking more during a marathon increases cognitive load and depletes overall energy, which reduces performance?
Hey Brett, I’d love to help you out. Most of my understanding comes from Brian hanley’s evidence based book. He coauthored with rich blagrove. Here is my interview with him podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-run-smarter-podcast/id1494778818?i=1000531857704
*"For 1 min run too fast at the start, 2 mins will be sacrificed at the end."* I noticed this today while running. And then I stumbled on this video. 😮
Good point! If you decide to run with the pacers throughout the race then you will run close to an even split. Some pacers deliberately run slower at the start but others fairly even. Either way, you are not making the mistake of running way too fast at the start.
That paper about risk taking confuses me a little bit, perhaps I'm missing something. If you slowed considerably in the second half for any reason whatsoever, you would exhibit a greater discrepancy between your forecast and actual performance. It feels like a bit of a superficial restatement of the obvious, a complicated way of saying "if your marathon goes wrong at any point, your time will be slower than you hoped". I'm probably missing something but it seems like its missing any actual measure of risk-taking behaviour.
Hello, I have a question. I’m gonna run the authentic marathon in Athens this November. I already ran it twice and I know the root and from 10th km until the 31st km mostly uphills. I want to run it sub 4 hours but I don’t know what I’m gonna do at the uphill part. Should I slow down or keep the same pace?
On my first marathon, I started conservatively, kept to an even pace, let people pass me early on, and then even more later in the race, because after three hours I got totally dehydrated (those aid station cups are not nearly enough, and the stations are not evenly spaced, which turned out to have been an issue), and I had to walk the last 1km or so, and head straight to first aid from the finish line (a bag of liquids into my veins, and I was good to go...). I should have gone out faster, cause that would have meant less time getting baked by the sun.
Being an elite athlete I disagree with your friend on the phone. A negative split is better and more effective than an even split. As proven in the majority of the fastest ever marathons.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. In Brian is a experienced researcher and coach in the field which is were he based his ideas. In his defence, he does mention the relevance of a negative split during our podcast interview but it was hard to capture a 60 min conversation into a quick snippet. I really appreciate your input.
being a non elite runner, i have tested both theories, and I agree with the podcast, run at race pace or maybe slightly faster. A negative split is hard to achieve esp for longer runs. This is for me personally
I can’t hold a constantly even pace to save my life. It’s just not natural. I found I had best results when I started slow but not too slow and then sped up after a while. I would have a little “downtime” in the middle of the run when I become fatigued, that’s when I allow myself to be a little slower again, but then, for some reason, I regain strength and I speed up but not too much. I always end up being the fastest in the final miles of a race. It may be excruciating from time to time but you’re just on autopilot and suddenly, it all comes back to you and you just run and run… but once I run TOO fast, I end up having circulatory issues after the finish line. for uphill runs, I try to keep the pace even when I go uphill but I slow myself down when I go downhill, the strain on my muscles when I go downhill is greater so I safe energy by not giving in to the temptation of going faster when I go downhill. I also don’t monitor my pace that much, I’m not a professional runner so why the pressure. I keep an eye on it every 5 miles, I’m a musician so I focus more on getting a feeling for the rhythm that my feet need for certain paces. It starts with counting, then over time, you just “hear” that you’re too slow or too fast. I also found that this method is far more accurate and less tiring than making yourself paranoid by checking your watch for every mile you run.
@@RunSmarterwithBrodieSharpe a lot of Pacers that go, for example, for a 3:30 end time do not run constant 5:00m/km but go off at 4:50mkm and than slow down at the end. Basically positive splitting.
Pacers most likely stick to their pace band,which may not be the same as you planned. But if you can handle the difference, the benefit and reward will be awesome.
💥💥80% of Runners are Injured EVERY YEAR 😲 But it Doesn't Have to be You!
Avoid being a statistic & sign up for the FREE 5-Day Injury Prevention Challenge mailchi.mp/runsmarter.online/5-day-challenge
Finnaly a video that talkes in km instead of Miles. THANK YOU :D
Agreeeeeee
Math is hard.
Completely agree 👍 Thanks a lot
I have watched so many marathon pace strategy videos, this advice stands out especially the consideration of cognitive load. It entirely makes sense that would be a drain on your valuable energy stores. Great video.
Glad you think so Craig. This really gives me motivation to continue. A marathon taper video is coming out this weekend 👏
It's something I gave no thought to, very glad to have viewed this. Fortunately my next marathon has pacers and I've decided to stick with them for this very reason and your video! @@RunSmarterwithBrodieSharpe
Great advice! Going to Chicago on 10/8, hope to do sub-4 with starting slow and patient.
Excellent! Best of luck and looking forward to hearing how you go. Maybe you’ll find my taper video useful too
Great video Brodie, thanks! After running my first marathon on the trails without any time goal last year, coming Sunday i'll have my first 'pancake' road marathon and was struggling on finding a pacing strategy. This is going to help me a lot!
Glad you found it useful Dennis, good luck for your race 🥳 💥
This will help me in 2 days for my first marathon. A big Thanks!
@@ChauTeddy9 you’re welcome. Good luck 🤩🤩
Thank you for the tips! Got the sf marathon in two days and I’m freaking out haha my training was plagued with injuries. My goal is just to cross the finish line
Good luck!! Just have fun and be grateful for making it to the starting line. A lot of runners train and never get to the start.
Since I started running marathons way before GPS watches and only had the Timex chrono type watch what we used to do was pre race figure out the splits at each mile
I then wrote most of these either on my bib ( upside down so I could just tip up my shirt and see the split time)
Or write them on the back of my hand
Usually I’d include the 5 and 10 and 14 and 18 splits
I usually stopped at 20 cos by then it was just hang on for whatever you got left
I hesitate to follow pacers as I sometimes they aren’t always accurate and I don’t like giving up too much control to someone else
I still write times down for important races
Great video
Thanx
Wow the good ol’ days hey 😂😂 thanks for sharing 🙏
To run at an even effort, the Stryd pod may come very handy.
Great vide. Thanks!
Great tip! Thanks for your input
I definitely prefer to start at a pace slightly below what I know I can hold and being able to do the second half about 5% better and still end on what my best average pace is
Good approach Sam 👏 i wish everyone had your discipline 🫣
100% this is my strategy for my first Marathon in Stockholm this summer 💪
Well explained thanks. Pacers helps a lot in marathons.
Thanks for watching Tommy
A really good video. I also had not thought about cognitive load and would do math extrapolating from current location and time where I was on pace to arrive. I can’t usually use pacers because they don’t have any with marathon times more than 5 hours. Anyway, this year I’m focusing more on trails and halfs so it’s okay.
Where I struggle is at the start of a couple of my favorite road half marathons we climb from sea level up a long hill, mix that with the energy surge of the start of a race and it’s just reminding myself it’s all for fun and health, short uphill intervals mixed with walking when I can’t go any more.
Well said Ellen! Looking forward to hearing about your training and races 👏
2 weeks ago I did my 3rd marathon. I was trying to get 2:50 but I dont know why I start every time way to fast (and I know it's a big mistake), I passed the half in 1:21 and I hitted the wall early at km 30.Cramped till the end and closed with new PB in 2:54 :c I feel like I can do my goal! my PB was 2:59 4 months ago 🤟
Everyone goes through the same mistake (myself included) but glad you came away with a PB 👏 thanks for sharing
fantastic video, thank you! About to do my first marathon in London and this has really helped to confirm and go into detail negative split/ easy going start that I'm really hoping to stick to and not get carried away like it seems so many people do 🙏
Excellent Neil, good luck!!
it's been a year since your comment. how did you do?
I need to work on something. My Oct marathon 3h8m but my best HM is 1h32m. Which means double 1h32m = 3h4m + 4m for my marathon time. Either I have more slow twitch muscle fibers or I need to work on my HM time.
Maybe it shows just how good you are at a marathon 😅😅👏👏
The conservative approach you described worked very well for me - I ran a consistent 8:05 pace at the recent Berlin marathon right to the end. Of course that was a very flat marathon. I am a less sure how to approach the NYCM in 2 weeks, given that I have already run a marathon recently and that it is a hillier course throughout.
Thanks for watching, I am glad the advice has agreed with you in the past. Good luck with the NYC marathon!!
What do you think about a strategy based on heart rate? So for example, in a marathon doing the first 5K at no more than 150 BPM, then the majority of the race at no more than 160 or 165, then the last 5K with no limit.
@@PhilMUK it’s worth testing out! You’ll probably find the excitement of marathon day will naturally have your HR pretty high though.
Thank you very much for your tips. Very clearly explained ! 👍
You’re welcome Samuel! Thanks for watching 😍
Excellent video!
Thanks Cory
The best video! Amazing tips!
Thanks for watching Marco!
I mean those Billat people have lots of papers saying that you should spend the majority of your race below your goal time pace with smaller much faster intervals. The science isn't as unequivocal as Dr. Hanley suggests. One paper might be "Marathon Performance Depends on Pacing Oscillations between Non Symmetric Extreme Values" by Pycke and Billat.
Thanks for the feedback Frank!
Well presented video, thank you! I see so many going “all-in” and then blow up in second half and some are professional running coaches 🤣🤣🤣
Haha agreed! Thanks for the feedback. It’s tough not to get caught up in the moment and try to race the person beside you 😆😆
Just send you an Instagram message 👏
@@RunSmarterwithBrodieSharpe i have just one word for that.....discipline 🙂
I use to just run how i felt in training no speed sessions but would alway run a 10 mile run slightly faster than my 15 and 20 mile,i ended up doing 10 dublin marathons under 3 hours and my best time was 2:53 min 😁
Well explained.❤
Thank you. Thanks for watching
Could you share links to the research that suggests that thinking more during a marathon increases cognitive load and depletes overall energy, which reduces performance?
Hey Brett, I’d love to help you out. Most of my understanding comes from Brian hanley’s evidence based book. He coauthored with rich blagrove. Here is my interview with him podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-run-smarter-podcast/id1494778818?i=1000531857704
*"For 1 min run too fast at the start, 2 mins will be sacrificed at the end."*
I noticed this today while running. And then I stumbled on this video. 😮
@@Lunar.cipher most of us learn the hard way 🤣
I suppose you can use heart rate to match effort if running a hilly course?
Definitely a good option. There is a slight delay with heart rate but keeps things simple 👏
If I start slower and conversative, how do I keep up with the pace makers at the first miles though?
Good point! If you decide to run with the pacers throughout the race then you will run close to an even split. Some pacers deliberately run slower at the start but others fairly even.
Either way, you are not making the mistake of running way too fast at the start.
excellent video
I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment 😍
That paper about risk taking confuses me a little bit, perhaps I'm missing something. If you slowed considerably in the second half for any reason whatsoever, you would exhibit a greater discrepancy between your forecast and actual performance. It feels like a bit of a superficial restatement of the obvious, a complicated way of saying "if your marathon goes wrong at any point, your time will be slower than you hoped". I'm probably missing something but it seems like its missing any actual measure of risk-taking behaviour.
Hello, I have a question. I’m gonna run the authentic marathon in Athens this November. I already ran it twice and I know the root and from 10th km until the 31st km mostly uphills. I want to run it sub 4 hours but I don’t know what I’m gonna do at the uphill part. Should I slow down or keep the same pace?
@@ΠαύλοςΧριστοφή definitely slow down. Try to keep the same effort level. Good luck with your training and race!
I never thought about brain sapping my energy. Wow
Neither had I before interviewing Brian Hanley on the podcast. Makes sense though.
@@RunSmarterwithBrodieSharpeand here I was enjoying running pace/ estimated time calculations to keep myself entertained during the race
On my first marathon, I started conservatively, kept to an even pace, let people pass me early on, and then even more later in the race, because after three hours I got totally dehydrated (those aid station cups are not nearly enough, and the stations are not evenly spaced, which turned out to have been an issue), and I had to walk the last 1km or so, and head straight to first aid from the finish line (a bag of liquids into my veins, and I was good to go...).
I should have gone out faster, cause that would have meant less time getting baked by the sun.
Just a learning experience 👏
exellent
Thank you 🙏
Being an elite athlete I disagree with your friend on the phone. A negative split is better and more effective than an even split. As proven in the majority of the fastest ever marathons.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. In Brian is a experienced researcher and coach in the field which is were he based his ideas. In his defence, he does mention the relevance of a negative split during our podcast interview but it was hard to capture a 60 min conversation into a quick snippet. I really appreciate your input.
being a non elite runner, i have tested both theories, and I agree with the podcast, run at race pace or maybe slightly faster. A negative split is hard to achieve esp for longer runs. This is for me personally
Lolz running a 65 minute 10k doesn’t make you an elite athlete, goober.
@@willdallas53who said it did ?
@@willdallas53Who are you replying to?
Hello sir
I can’t hold a constantly even pace to save my life. It’s just not natural. I found I had best results when I started slow but not too slow and then sped up after a while. I would have a little “downtime” in the middle of the run when I become fatigued, that’s when I allow myself to be a little slower again, but then, for some reason, I regain strength and I speed up but not too much. I always end up being the fastest in the final miles of a race. It may be excruciating from time to time but you’re just on autopilot and suddenly, it all comes back to you and you just run and run… but once I run TOO fast, I end up having circulatory issues after the finish line.
for uphill runs, I try to keep the pace even when I go uphill but I slow myself down when I go downhill, the strain on my muscles when I go downhill is greater so I safe energy by not giving in to the temptation of going faster when I go downhill.
I also don’t monitor my pace that much, I’m not a professional runner so why the pressure. I keep an eye on it every 5 miles, I’m a musician so I focus more on getting a feeling for the rhythm that my feet need for certain paces. It starts with counting, then over time, you just “hear” that you’re too slow or too fast.
I also found that this method is far more accurate and less tiring than making yourself paranoid by checking your watch for every mile you run.
Thanks for sharing. Looks like you have really honed in on what works for you 👏 well done 👍
😊
Aren't Pacers known for banking time on purpose? Basically doing the opposite of what you want to achieve
Thanks for your feedback. I am not quite sure what you mean though. Can you elaborate?
@@RunSmarterwithBrodieSharpe a lot of Pacers that go, for example, for a 3:30 end time do not run constant 5:00m/km but go off at 4:50mkm and than slow down at the end. Basically positive splitting.
Ahh I see! Great insight. That would definitely complicate things. The pacers that I have talked to say they 'try' to keep consistent.
Pacers most likely stick to their pace band,which may not be the same as you planned. But if you can handle the difference, the benefit and reward will be awesome.
I wonder how many marathons Brian has run… my guess is zero
Would love to hear your experience and thoughts on the topic. Experience is always highly valued and can help out a lot of other runners
We use MILES here in MURICA boiiiii