Gear Guide: 8x10 Film Holders (Fidelity Elite, Toyo, Chamonix)
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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Very informative Ben, I have three Fidelity holders ready for my 8x10 and have also ordered two of the new Intrepid models. It would be good to get your impression of these when the camera is finally launched this month.
I'm curious about the Intrepid film holders as well. Perhaps I will get a chance to work with them. I have one of their 8x10's on the way, but I don't think they are including any of the film holders. We'll see though! I was hoping they would ship the camera in time for my next (potential) backpacking trip, but I can live with the Ebony. ;-)
I read that some of the Fidelity light leaks you're talking about were a manufacturing defect they acknowledged and fixed. But if they don't make 8x10s anymore, it's a moot point. They're basically fine for my 4x5 shooting.
Little summary of Ben's comments...
Fidelity: lightest but all retired now due to problems. Only for B/W now. Not trusted.
pros: can feel sides of slides, easy to insert film
issues: polished surface on top and bottom of film holder that reflects light onto the film
found some leak lights over time (though mostly bought used and some new)
Toyo: still in production, about $200 new, built well. Has about 8 now.
no issues with internal reflections
issue: they are a bit heavy
hard to remove slide when new though easier over time
easy to load film in tent, open slide only slightly to load/unload
silver side of slide handle has notches to feel
Chamonix: Has 4 holders, most beautiful, well made, very light in weight
carbon fiber dark slide, slim tolerances, slim tolerances could possibly be broken
issue: can be hard to insert the film due to small tolerances, hard to line up
issue: can't feel sides of the slide to detect black/white side
Thanks Ben! great series of videos, very honest and down to earth
Hi Ben, I recently purchased a mint second hand Chamonix 8x10 holder with the intention of purchasing more, but I'm now wondering about their dimensional stability - mine seems to have a slight deformation outwards in the center of the top wood bands near the dark slide insertion slot, is any of yours showing this? I haven't tested it yet, just flashed with an LED in the dark to see if I could catch any light showing through when pulling the dark slide just a little out - nothing seems to be passing through and I can see there's some shielding material on the top. I'll try a long exposure with a digital camera. Any thoughts?
Mine are quite similar, and have never given me any issues with light leaks. The wood is so incredibly thin up top, and there is a bit of give up there when you push inward, but the light traps do their job, and I suspect they hold their form very well when they're sandwiched in the back of the camera. Just with any other film holder, be sure to squeeze the back of the camera when inserting/removing the dark slides just to make sure it stays nice and firm. On the plus side, I've found that their carbon fiber darkslides are a joy to insert/remove. The rigidity sure is nice.
I had noticed that density build up on the edges and I have to burn in in the darkroom. I never linked it to those bad boys. I have some toyo too. Mine are 4x5 but I guess the construction is the same. I have some Toyos also as they fit my Bomm 4x5 easily. May stick to the Toyos!
I've been very happy with the Toyo holders. They are built very well!
Ben, great video about holders. Tell me, were there any problems with sharpness in one holder? Each holder has a different distance to the film in fractions of millimeters.
I haven't noticed any issues at all. That being said, I shoot stopped down to f/45 for nearly every photo, so any subtle difference would be masked by a very large DOF.
@@BenHorne Ben thank you for your answer
Really pleased to see you geeking out on large format gear. It's a rare thing on RUclips. Do you have any tips for sheets of film getting stuck together when I'm packing them up to mail to the lab? It's got to be condensation somehow but I can't tell where it's coming from. Should I let the film stand outside the refrigerator for longer before loading it initially?
I haven't had that problem with the sheets getting stuck together, but I do let them sit for quite a while after taking the film out of the freezer to let the temperature acclimate. I typically store the film boxes in a dry bag, and I just put it on the kitchen counter for a few hours before opening the bag and pulling the boxes out.
Thanks! I've done a lot of searching on this and asked my lab (I think we both use NCPS?) but only found one reference to the issue, on a review of a changing tent. I use a changing bag for loading and unloading. The reviewer mentioned that the changing bag can get really sweaty in hot weather, and I agree. Going to try to catch the moisture with film handling gloves to see before investing in a tent.
for those on a budget what do you think about the film holders from intrepid camera or some of the very old wooden Kodak/graflex holders?
I would be very cautious about some of the older ones just because you never really know how good the light seals are until you try them. If I were to go down that road, I would probably put some darkroom paper in them in a film changing tent, then close them up then bring them out into sunlight, as well as put them in a camera and pull the darkslide and reinsert in full light. Then just develop the paper and see if there are any light leaks. I would be very skeptical of them until you can make sure they are light tight.
Cool cat, Ben! So do you prefer wooden 8x10 film holders to the plastic ones?
Overall I prefer the Toyo holders because they are easy to load and built like a tank. My goal is to use the wooden holders mostly when backpacking, but they will be in my regular rotation for those times when I've used up my Toyo holders. That's mostly because the Chamonix holders are a bit more difficult to load.
Is there one brand that you found to be "tougher" when it comes to any kind of weight pressing on darkslides? I've used the fidelities for years but have found that I really need to baby them and ensure nothing in my pack presses against them.
That's a very good question. The Chamonix holders definitely have the most rigid dark slides, which also helps when inserting them. Toyo holders are very beefy and have thick dark slides, though the material does give a bit more than the Chamonix ones. I haven't had any issues with anything pushing against the dark slides. I can't remember if I mentioned it in this video, but I ditched all my Fidelity Elite holders years ago. They are the only holders I have had issues with film pop and light leaks with. Neither issue was common, but it only happened with those holders. My Chamonix and Toyo holders have been rock solid in that regard.
Ben, would the Chamonix 4x5 film holders fit in the back of my Intrepid 4x5? Are they all basically a universal fitting? May seem a silly question but want to make sure before I go ahead and purchase something I can't use.
Yes, they will work great in there. Thankfully that design has been standardized. It took me a little while to learn how best to load the Chamonix holders with film, but once I got the hang of it, they are now my favorite film holder to work with.
@@BenHorne Thanks for the instant reply Ben! Very much appreciated.
I'll need to look into some nice film holders for 4x5. Those colored film holder sleeves look super helpful as well. Also do you have any recommendations on film changing bags? Enjoyed the video!
My preference is the Harrison Film Changing Tent. They are expensive, but changing tents are nicer than changing bags because the material stays up and out of the way.
Have any of the Intrepid Holders on order?
I don't, but that's mostly just because I have plenty of film holders already. I am very curious about them though.
I too would like to try out their 8x10 film holders emailed them in early june 2018 but no reply yet.
Might try Facebook? They have used an Aluminium core, Carbon would be nice. Cheers Ben
I dunno; the common Fidelity holders are $50 to $100 used, which makes them valuable enough to me to spend 10 minutes gently sanding the shiny edges to dull them. Or you could maybe roughen and then paint them flat black.
I've never had light leak problems with them except for ancient wooden ones where the light trap was just worn out.
Plus 1 on the Toyos; built like tanks, 100% reliable, expensive. Current price at big-name stores in NY is $300!
The Chamonix ones are lovely pieces of craftmanship, currently (November 2019) $235 apiece. I think it's a significant fail that they don't have the traditional bumps on the white side of the slide. I have a couple of 5x7 ones, made my own little "bumps" of epoxy on each.
The other issue I have with the fidelity holders (something I have learned since making this video) is that they are prone to film pop with 8x10. My Chamonix and Toyo holders don't have the same issue where the film can shift in the holder in response to changes in humidity.
I've been having this issue with my 8x10 Fidelity holders and I'm trying to figure out the best way to try and fix them. First, I'm having a hard time deciding on what surface area is the culprit, but I assume that it's the topside of the flap and the area that sticks out on the opposite side. Would sanding the shiny edges fix the issue? I've also considered purchasing the deep matte black paint and just painting over. Have you tried these fixes? With how much I've experienced this problem, I can't believe that I can hardly find any information at all on this--Ben's video is just about the only thing that references this problem. I think I found just one forum post as well.
@@steveolson3051 I don't do 8x10; just 4x5 and 5x7, so I haven't noticed film pop on any of the holder brands.
Even the Fidelity ones, though, are fairly expensive, so I've bought a few that were very old, and spent some time reconditioning them. The basic structure is usually sound, but the hinge tapes fail after long use, and there may be spots where the black paint has worn off.
I found replacement tapes on eBay, but you could experiment with other kinds of tape from the hardware store. The tape needs to be permanently sticky, and flexible enough to bend back and forth without cracking.
All the areas that the film can "see," I paint with flat black. I do this even on relatively new Fidelity holders, because on some of them the original paint is glossy and so reflects light despite the fact that it's black.
Takes about 15 minutes per holder and I've found that the effort is worth it. Given that new ones from Toyo and Chamonix are $300, reconditioning a $10 dollar one from eBay is not a waste of time.
@@scottparis6355 Thanks so much for this info! I just ordered some flat black paint to give your suggestion a try and see if I can fix these troublesome Fidelity holders. I appreciate you taking the time to comment!
@@steveolson3051 Oh, one other thing: if you buy used holders, check the light tightness of the hinge tape. Open the loading flap and hold a flashlight behind the tape. On older holders the tape can crack at the point where it folds, or just wear out in general and become translucent.