Thankyou for your insights and observations. May I add a topic that I did not hear you mention and that is plastic wheels. They are the greatest dirt collectors ever invented. My advice is to rip out the plastics and replace them with metal wheels sets. If price is a consideration, have less rolling stock, but NO plastic wheels, ever. 😊
Some very good points, Best being your message on cleanliness. I may have missed it but I didn't hear you mention the Polar vs Non Polar debate. Being sciency, I like the science behind the use of non polar substances on rails. I am aware that you believe that micro arcing isn't a problem and that it is not present on your rails. I think that using a camera with very high frame rate and really good magnification would show some arcing. Even the smoothest, shiniest surface manufacturable is anything but smooth on the molecular scale. For me the question isn't 'How clean can I get my rails?' but rather 'How long will it be before I have to clean my rails again?' Clearly this is a consideration for you as well as you use a conditioner on your rails after cleaning. I almost never use abrasive cleaners on my track, when i do I use a block of pine wood either used by hand or towed in a wagon built for purpose. Sometimes I pour a little non polar solvent on the wood for better action. Printer paper may also be used as a very gentle abrasive and is good way to remove that tarnish you spoke of. Charlie of Chadwick Model Railway on UTube has demonstarted that use of a track rubber will leave small particles which may be gathered with a magnet. Seeing that video put them on the banned list for me as I already have trouble with my Bachmann sound locos gathering anything magnetic they can find. I also try to avoid using things like WD40 and Inox on my tracks but I can see the science behind why they might work. The key is how much you put on, if you notice loss of traction then there is too much cleaner left on the track after cleaning/conditioning the track. I believe the idea is to leave just enough behind to fill any scratches, pits etc in the rails and that the amount of arcing, including micro arcing, is one of the main factors determining how long track stays clean. The guidelines I have formulated for my self are as folows: 1. Use abrasion sparingly and be very gentle. 2. Use non polar solvents. 3. Use a non polar electrical contact lubricant in miniscule quantities to inhibit (you can never stop it) arcing and delay any subsequent track cleaning. I am not satisfied with any of the offerings out there, not even NO-OX-ID as it is not a complete solution. I want to clean and condition my track in one pass. To this end, I have formulated my own cleaner/conditioner which is a non polar contact lubricant disolved in a non polar solvent. I give my tracks a bit of a rub with this and contact problems go away for a long time. I have only recently concocted my potion so exactly how much conditioner to disolve in the solvent is still a question that needs answering but the need for track cleaning has been reduced which is good for lazy ol me.
Thamks, I have no itention of getting a high speed camera (and i do have one) to inspect my rails as frankly it does not matter. I wont have the track long enough to care that much. I clean propetly annually. Thats good enough! I want to run trains and not be a slave to cleaning!
If you have gradients then last think you want is some sort of lubricant left behind on the track unless of course locos standing still and spinning their wheels gives you great joy. In the past I've used a gauge 1 rubber which did a great job and no downwards pressure was needed to clean the rails. Being gauge 1 a double track layout could be cleaned because the rubber was long enough to span the two tracks. I think too much is made by some people of the detrimental effects of track rubbers. If the Peco track rubber was so bad then the rails would be worn down in no time but they're not. Also if you're that paranoid about iron filings then clean the track and vacuum afterwards and all will be well.
I have just demolished Iden Park, my "Dream Layout", in order to rebuild it. The rebuild will almost certainly include track and points (Peco) that are more than 30 years old and have continued to work perfectly throughout that time, cleaned by Peco track rubbers, used exactly as suggested here.
A Good little video, and food for thought: Living in a less than dust free environment, dirty track is an issue for me, even with stay alives and sprung chassis. A couple of points: Hard wiring of point blades is almost essential to ensure continuity throughout the point, regardless of whether you are using insul, or electro frog points. While not an issue if you are using DCC control, the base setup of most commercial points is to rely on the blades to provide electrical switching between lines, so the line that is switched against is isolated. Of course paint and/or dirt will cause issues, hence the preference to hard wire the blade with the adjacent stock rail. The only difference between insul and electro frog points is the closure rails are broken at some point between blade and frog, with power being supplied to the frog via a switch which changes polarity as the point is switched. While not an issue with analog control this now means that the track past the frog needs to be isolated from the frog with DCC layouts, and running a locomotive over that insulation will create a short if the points are not set correctly. The main perceived issue with track rubbers is the presence of an abrasive within the rubber, which potentially may work its way into mechanisms etc. Whether this is a real or imagined concern I really cant tell: I doubt anyone has actually run a comparison Lastly if your IPA is thinned with hydrocarbon it is unlikely to have much water (technically water is Hydrogen Di-oxide) in it, if any at all: the hydrocarbon could be ethanol/methanol/ or any of the constituents of petrol , but the advice to get 100% IPA is a good one as different chemicals may react in an unwanted fashion.
For me a tip I picked up on U-tube was to apply a coating of graphite to the cleaned track. It is applied by sharpening a carpenters pencil to a chisel point and drawing the wide part along approx 30cm of track on each principle line (e.g. Up; Down; Goods Yard arrival; Terminus station throat etc. The cleaned wheels distributed the graphite to all parts over say a month of running and I get a minimum of 4 months between routine track cleaning. On of the greatest benefits is where I’ve had to suspend regular running whilst I complete a new installation, scenic work for example. The treated track springs back to life when called back into service. As you correctly state - It’s not definitive but works for me. Happy Christmas and Modelling in 2024. T 🚂
Yes a track rubber is easily at hand. I use Metalated Spirit with the old Tri-ang permanent way felt pad track cleaner. Not found anything better as yet. Similar to that brass tanker you showed. Regards Alan in Dover UK :o)
It has always amused me when folk say never use a Peco track rubber and hold up the remains of a severely abuse rubber with chunks missing and deep rail grooves down it, just how hard have the been pressing the thing. As you quite rightly say all that is needed is a very gentle rub and both track and rubber will last years, some of my track is 40+ years old and is just fine.
Great video, I am building a new layout, will need cleaning, I have a old Tyco track cleaning car I hope to test out , same principle as the CMX tank cleaner car also going to subscribe your channel, live in Canada
Hi Dallas. Your video came up in my feed this morning. I was looking at cleaning my track today...funny that. I am running Dead Rail (battery) on two sets of Sydney suburban red rattlers, so track cleaning is not a critical need. I run my other trains on DC, powerline with traction tyres and Austrains with full metal wheels. My layout is flat. I use the Peco rubber as you descirbe and it does a good job. I have tried Inox sparingly but was getting wheel slip on traction tyres, so went back to the rubber. I am looking at adding some inclines to the layout. I might try the deox ID as i haven't seen it before. My layout is flat but i am looking at adding an incline. Would the deox ID prevent wheel slip? Thanks for the video. Great layout. Have subscribed. Cheers Graham.
A well constructed video very much based on fact and observation rather than some of the more subjective presentations I have seen. Right at the end you did mention that you should only use 100% IPA. This is not strictly necessary. I would just say that less than 100% IPA is OK provided it is not much less than 91% IPA. The other 10% could just be water. It forms what is called an azeotropic mix so the water evaporates along with the IPA leaving no water on the track. However you would be right to be wary of 60% IPA - this could leave water on the track.
The product you are using is a grease = a lubricant. It works because it puts a thin layer of grease on the track to stop the track oxidising. Likewise Inox mp3 does the same thing and softens the dirt. Using abrasive track cleaners simply scratches the track allowing dirt to stick better. I have been using Inox for about 40 years. I do not use locomotives with traction tyres. I do not need to clean wheels. The dirt ends up on the track which I clean monthly on bits that need it using a rag or piece of cork wetted with Inox.
All good, mate. This is my review of what works for me. I am glad you use Inox; as I said, it's alright but too slippery on my grades. Deoxit, BTW, doesn't stop tarnishing - nothing does!, except running every day. iLL be dead before my Peco track rubber has buggered the track beyond use!
Citric acid doesn't matter how new or old electric arcing pits the coating of the rails so going to get resistance and bad running have fun 🤔 hmmm didn't think of that 😆
Have you considered burnishing the rails with a stainless steel washer after cleaning? Some people claim it helps- just make sure you turn of the power to the track!
Thankyou for your insights and observations. May I add a topic that I did not hear you mention and that is plastic wheels. They are the greatest dirt collectors ever invented. My advice is to rip out the plastics and replace them with metal wheels sets. If price is a consideration, have less rolling stock, but NO plastic wheels, ever. 😊
Totally agree! Plastic is for toy trains!
Great video Dallas, keep them coming..cheers
More to come!
Hi Dallas, Very interesting video, full of excellent information...Cheers Greg
Glad it was helpful!
Some very good points, Best being your message on cleanliness. I may have missed it but I didn't hear you mention the Polar vs Non Polar debate. Being sciency, I like the science behind the use of non polar substances on rails. I am aware that you believe that micro arcing isn't a problem and that it is not present on your rails. I think that using a camera with very high frame rate and really good magnification would show some arcing. Even the smoothest, shiniest surface manufacturable is anything but smooth on the molecular scale. For me the question isn't 'How clean can I get my rails?' but rather 'How long will it be before I have to clean my rails again?' Clearly this is a consideration for you as well as you use a conditioner on your rails after cleaning. I almost never use abrasive cleaners on my track, when i do I use a block of pine wood either used by hand or towed in a wagon built for purpose. Sometimes I pour a little non polar solvent on the wood for better action. Printer paper may also be used as a very gentle abrasive and is good way to remove that tarnish you spoke of. Charlie of Chadwick Model Railway on UTube has demonstarted that use of a track rubber will leave small particles which may be gathered with a magnet. Seeing that video put them on the banned list for me as I already have trouble with my Bachmann sound locos gathering anything magnetic they can find. I also try to avoid using things like WD40 and Inox on my tracks but I can see the science behind why they might work. The key is how much you put on, if you notice loss of traction then there is too much cleaner left on the track after cleaning/conditioning the track. I believe the idea is to leave just enough behind to fill any scratches, pits etc in the rails and that the amount of arcing, including micro arcing, is one of the main factors determining how long track stays clean. The guidelines I have formulated for my self are as folows: 1. Use abrasion sparingly and be very gentle. 2. Use non polar solvents. 3. Use a non polar electrical contact lubricant in miniscule quantities to inhibit (you can never stop it) arcing and delay any subsequent track cleaning. I am not satisfied with any of the offerings out there, not even NO-OX-ID as it is not a complete solution. I want to clean and condition my track in one pass. To this end, I have formulated my own cleaner/conditioner which is a non polar contact lubricant disolved in a non polar solvent. I give my tracks a bit of a rub with this and contact problems go away for a long time. I have only recently concocted my potion so exactly how much conditioner to disolve in the solvent is still a question that needs answering but the need for track cleaning has been reduced which is good for lazy ol me.
Thamks, I have no itention of getting a high speed camera (and i do have one) to inspect my rails as frankly it does not matter. I wont have the track long enough to care that much. I clean propetly annually. Thats good enough! I want to run trains and not be a slave to cleaning!
Hi Dallas, great video very educational as you say whatever works for you. Keep up the good work. Thanks from Dallas.
Dallas, thanks, Dallas!
Thanks 👍
Great video on track and wheel cleaning. Thank Dallas for all the videos on the Kingsview HO layout. Mike HO from Bairnsdale.
Thanks for watching!
Another great video - with useful tips as usual. Thanks.
Thanks again!
Great video Dallas, thanks for your efforts
Glad you enjoyed it
If you have gradients then last think you want is some sort of lubricant left behind on the track unless of course locos standing still and spinning their wheels gives you great joy. In the past I've used a gauge 1 rubber which did a great job and no downwards pressure was needed to clean the rails. Being gauge 1 a double track layout could be cleaned because the rubber was long enough to span the two tracks. I think too much is made by some people of the detrimental effects of track rubbers. If the Peco track rubber was so bad then the rails would be worn down in no time but they're not. Also if you're that paranoid about iron filings then clean the track and vacuum afterwards and all will be well.
It's all about the pressure!
I have just demolished Iden Park, my "Dream Layout", in order to rebuild it. The rebuild will almost certainly include track and points (Peco) that are more than 30 years old and have continued to work perfectly throughout that time, cleaned by Peco track rubbers, used exactly as suggested here.
Exactly, Case closed your honour! The prosecution rests!
A Good little video, and food for thought: Living in a less than dust free environment, dirty track is an issue for me, even with stay alives and sprung chassis.
A couple of points: Hard wiring of point blades is almost essential to ensure continuity throughout the point, regardless of whether you are using insul, or electro frog points. While not an issue if you are using DCC control, the base setup of most commercial points is to rely on the blades to provide electrical switching between lines, so the line that is switched against is isolated. Of course paint and/or dirt will cause issues, hence the preference to hard wire the blade with the adjacent stock rail. The only difference between insul and electro frog points is the closure rails are broken at some point between blade and frog, with power being supplied to the frog via a switch which changes polarity as the point is switched. While not an issue with analog control this now means that the track past the frog needs to be isolated from the frog with DCC layouts, and running a locomotive over that insulation will create a short if the points are not set correctly.
The main perceived issue with track rubbers is the presence of an abrasive within the rubber, which potentially may work its way into mechanisms etc. Whether this is a real or imagined concern I really cant tell: I doubt anyone has actually run a comparison
Lastly if your IPA is thinned with hydrocarbon it is unlikely to have much water (technically water is Hydrogen Di-oxide) in it, if any at all: the hydrocarbon could be ethanol/methanol/ or any of the constituents of petrol , but the advice to get 100% IPA is a good one as different chemicals may react in an unwanted fashion.
All good points. No issues after putting links on insulfrog points!
For me a tip I picked up on U-tube was to apply a coating of graphite to the cleaned track. It is applied by sharpening a carpenters pencil to a chisel point and drawing the wide part along approx 30cm of track on each principle line (e.g. Up; Down; Goods Yard arrival; Terminus station throat etc. The cleaned wheels distributed the graphite to all parts over say a month of running and I get a minimum of 4 months between routine track cleaning. On of the greatest benefits is where I’ve had to suspend regular running whilst I complete a new installation, scenic work for example. The treated track springs back to life when called back into service. As you correctly state - It’s not definitive but works for me.
Happy Christmas and Modelling in 2024. T 🚂
Yes a track rubber is easily at hand. I use Metalated Spirit with the old Tri-ang permanent way felt pad track cleaner. Not found anything better as yet. Similar to that brass tanker you showed. Regards Alan in Dover UK :o)
Remember, Meth is at least 6% water. Try 100% Isopropyl Alcohol. Water and track don't mix all that well.
Thanks for a very informative video
My pleasure
It has always amused me when folk say never use a Peco track rubber and hold up the remains of a severely abuse rubber with chunks missing and deep rail grooves down it, just how hard have the been pressing the thing. As you quite rightly say all that is needed is a very gentle rub and both track and rubber will last years, some of my track is 40+ years old and is just fine.
Totally agree, its not an angle grinder! Thanks for watching!
Great video, I am building a new layout, will need cleaning, I have a old Tyco track cleaning car I hope to test out , same principle as the CMX tank cleaner car also going to subscribe your channel, live in Canada
Thanks for viewing in Canada! Love your railaways, especially the Rocky Mountaineer, which we have been on!
Hi Dallas. Your video came up in my feed this morning. I was looking at cleaning my track today...funny that.
I am running Dead Rail (battery) on two sets of Sydney suburban red rattlers, so track cleaning is not a critical need. I run my other trains on DC, powerline with traction tyres and Austrains with full metal wheels. My layout is flat.
I use the Peco rubber as you descirbe and it does a good job. I have tried Inox sparingly but was getting wheel slip on traction tyres, so went back to the rubber.
I am looking at adding some inclines to the layout.
I might try the deox ID as i haven't seen it before.
My layout is flat but i am looking at adding an incline. Would the deox ID prevent wheel slip?
Thanks for the video. Great layout. Have subscribed.
Cheers Graham.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A well constructed video very much based on fact and observation rather than some of the more subjective presentations I have seen. Right at the end you did mention that you should only use 100% IPA. This is not strictly necessary. I would just say that less than 100% IPA is OK provided it is not much less than 91% IPA. The other 10% could just be water. It forms what is called an azeotropic mix so the water evaporates along with the IPA leaving no water on the track. However you would be right to be wary of 60% IPA - this could leave water on the track.
100% IPA seems to work best for me, its pure.
The product you are using is a grease = a lubricant. It works because it puts a thin layer of grease on the track to stop the track oxidising. Likewise Inox mp3 does the same thing and softens the dirt. Using abrasive track cleaners simply scratches the track allowing dirt to stick better. I have been using Inox for about 40 years. I do not use locomotives with traction tyres. I do not need to clean wheels. The dirt ends up on the track which I clean monthly on bits that need it using a rag or piece of cork wetted with Inox.
All good, mate. This is my review of what works for me. I am glad you use Inox; as I said, it's alright but too slippery on my grades. Deoxit, BTW, doesn't stop tarnishing - nothing does!, except running every day. iLL be dead before my Peco track rubber has buggered the track beyond use!
For me, it’s mineral spirits. And that’s it.
Well if it works why not! Be careful, it can melt sleepers though! If you have tyres on wheels be very careful!
Thanks for all the great comments!
Hi, according to the deox website it states that it lubricates, so would you use this with grades
Yes, It works well.
Citric acid doesn't matter how new or old electric arcing pits the coating of the rails so going to get resistance and bad running have fun 🤔 hmmm didn't think of that 😆
Citric Acid? Arcing does pit the rails and in 50+ years of modellling never seen it to the point where a train won't run.
@@KingsviewModelRailway Steel rails Steel wheels Tri ang arcing nightmare especially with gaps on fishplates ☹️
Have you considered burnishing the rails with a stainless steel washer after cleaning? Some people claim it helps- just make sure you turn of the power to the track!