This Garnet has a replacement Classic Tone OT and Weber speaker, which probably ups the ooomph over the original setup. It also runs a single 6L6 instead of the lower power 6V6 one sees in other Gnomes.
Surprising. The Traynor sounded thin by comparison. Back in the day, i had a Traynor YGM-3 combo, for a 20 watt amp it was super loud and clear and with pedals, sounded incredible.
I've owned a few myself (nowhere near 50). I prefer the lower output Traynors (YBA-2, YGM-2, YGM-3) to bigger heads. When I was touring, I used a Garnet Gnome for a while, slaved into a larger Peavey to get more stage volume.
PTW Amps - yeah such cool amps. I was playing my United (Garnet) D45T yesterday, I cant figure out what speaker is in it, I don’t think it’s a Marsland, has a large square magnet, maybe CTS or Eminence? Great sounding amp, really warm and dynamic, I’d like to get a bit more top end and gain out of it, all the tubes have been replaced so I’ll see what I can do next. The days of finding them for $50.00 are over but I still stumble across the odd deal.
@@regortex3364 If the speaker has a code, look for a number series beginning "67" (Eminence) or "137" (CTS). Canadian Marslands would usually have the letter code "DG". Radio Speakers of Canada (another common on in old Canadian amps) are coded "DW." I have a quad of early 70s Eminence in my Super Reverb and they have black frames with a prominent square magnet.
Some amps will lose their top end as the old ceramic caps (the ones used in the tone circuit to create high pass filters for treble) wear out. That Traynor in the video had that problem -- muddy and lifeless sounding, but mica caps in place of the old ceramics brought the chime back in.
PTW Amps - hey thanks for the tips, I thought that changing the caps would be a start. It has a 67 on the magnet so it looks like it’s an Eminence, probably not stock I assume?
For cleans, I liked the Pine the best. With the Guv' nor in front, I think the Garnet sounded best! Hard to tell though,as the amps voicings and settings are different. In reality, all sound great, and could be adjusted to fit any guitarist's tastes.
All so unique and wonderful. A more realistic comparison could have been demonstrated by placing the SM-57 directly on-axis to each speaker at say, a meter distance. That would remove some of the microphones placement variables such as its directionality and proximity effect from the equation. Great video :)
I have a Traynor YSR-1 (Nov’69), a Garnet Rebel Deluxe, and a Pine Electric branded Mansfield - looks like a Riviera 725. I used the Garnet Rebel Deluxe paired with a Yorkville Bloc 100GT in stereo as my live rig for 10 years. They were louder than God... great video!!!
@@drmarcfpelletier So many variations on the Pines and Lifcos, it gets bewildering. The 725s I've seen have all been heads about the size of 60s Bassmans, in one of two configurations: 2X 6V6 (about 15 watts) or 2X 6L6 (about 50 watts, like the one I have). ... 3 inputs sounds more like the Model 201, although there are perhaps others I am not aware of. My impression is that Saul Pinchuk/ Pine would just adapt his designs to whatever the customers wanted... and badge them accordingly.
I've repaired a couple of the "Imperial" Lifco heads, the 800 model. Those and the (very similar) Pine 725s are diamonds in the rough. I've never come across their 2X12 cabs.
@@keenedgedesigns "Marshallizing" old Traynors is a popular pastime up here in Canada, but it is often done badly. The YGM in this video was in fact modded (gain boost, master vol.) before I got it and sounded ho-hum
seems like the Garnet is a lot like a Fender Deluxe Reverb or a Princeton Reverb 68 while the Trayor is more of its own distinctive tone - is that a fair assessment. I have a Garnet Revolution 1 from 1971 and a Traynor YGM 3 from 1969 - I like them both
Tone-wise, I'd compare the Garnet more to a tweed Fender, such as the single-ended tweed Princeton (5F2) of the mid-50s. Of course, that addition of reverb and tremelo does make it more typically Sixties, but the natural grit and breakup is quite different from the cleaner/ mid-scooped 60s Fenders.
Nice roundup, I wasn't familiar with Lifco. Hey, do you have thoughts on the Traynor TS-15? I think a pair of 8s is interesting. (Or is it just a practice squawk box?)
I have no direct experience with the TS-15, although I had a TS-25 in the shop a year or too ago and thought it a pretty good sounding solid state amp. I did a comparison between that amp and a tube YBA-2 combo a while back... should be listed on my channel. In terms of 8s... I'm not a big fan. Whenever I can get away with at least a 10, I go for that, for a more fully-rounded tone -- but it's just a matter of preference.
Kinda late but the cheapest amp I have is a TS-15 and the two eights make sixteen inches of speaker. They are not shit box amps by any means! Give it a try...You might be in for a shock but in a good way! Cheers !
Lifco 630 is perfectly safe. It has an isolation power transformer. Its circuit is much like a point-to-point version of a 60s Vox or Marshall 18 watt. Just be sure to install a modern 3-prong AC cable with a safety ground to the chassis.
I'm looking at getting a Garnet Mach V, which seems to have only been made '69-'71. The guy has a 2x12 version. And I can't find anything whatsoever about this model. I just emailed Garnet's parts dept. about tube replacement possibilities. I'm no amp expert at all. Any thoughts? ps-just for info curiousity-right now i have a tiny little Traynor solid state; which is occasionally interesting, and a Crate 32 Palamino; which I think is pretty awesome-it's known for running hot and the guys had turned the bias down a bit. Cheers. ps-just heard back from guy at Garnet saying lots of suitable tubes available, so i'm probably good. :-)
I don't know much about that particular model. I'd suggest consulting the Canadian Amplifier Forum on Facebook or the amp forum pages on Guitars Canada/ Canadian Guitar Forum. Lots of folks there who may know more about that particular Garnet.
No, because each amplifier is a different design, and the cabinet and speaker type and size are both part of that design. Doing it your way would be comparing different amp circuits, not different amplifiers.
@@ptwamps3682 Yes, but . . . . If these were my amps the first thing I'd do is plug them up to a decent speaker, so I could judge what the amps sounds like apart from a speaker that was not considered as part of the design of the amp. They just used whatever they could readily and cheaply get their hands on. I'd be willing to bet that viewers preferences would change if these were all plugged up to the same quality speaker setup. I see the value in what you present. It doesn't serve my needs, but everybody is different.
YBA2 version with 6V6s is generally along the lines of a tweed Deluxe 5E3 with guitar (I once plugged a YBA2 into a 5E3 cabinet and the similarities were remarkable). YBA2/ 2B also comes in a EL84 version which I've only heard once but was a bit brighter. The combos depend a lot on the speaker. I think YBA generally is better as a head paired with a good cab loaded with a Celestion or WGS speaker. ... YGM3 is much like the YGM2 in this video, except with reverb and some circuit differences. I think the Marshall 18-watt 'mini-Bluesbreaker' is about the best comparison.
@@ptwamps3682 thank you. I am trying to find something deluxe like with vox character, while also not being to quick responding, a little sag and good harmonics. Do these Traynor amps sag or are they quick and articulate?
@@pastorkev777 Generally speaking tube rectified will give more sag which in the case of Traynor means seek out earlier ones (script logo although even those have solid state diodes by around 1969). The 70s YGMs are solid state rectified with little sag... quick and tight response.
pine amps are overrated if you ask me they just don't have that warm pleasing-to-the-ear tube sound like a fender champ but old traynor and garnet amps are fantastic and I once had an old "Lero" brand, Canadian-made amp it was tall and big enough to be a 2X12 but it had like 1x8 speaker LOL but it had that warm tube sound all day long
Countless Traynors are still operating after 50 to 55 years. That wouldn't be the case if they were "garbage". A lot of them do have issues from being butchered or poorly maintained, though, but handwired circuits (something Lloyd's stereos don't have) can always be fixed.
@@ptwamps3682 its the image they project. They are ugly at least the older ones are. The only professional i saw use one was i think Eric Clapton a long time ago b4 he moved onto Fender amps. They might be reliable but not talked about much among guitarist. Image is a big thing. Overall Marshall has the image and sound. Fender has the sound more than the image. Then there is boogie. Great amps
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Garnet really stood out. I was expecting the Traynor to be the clear winner but the Garnet was a giant.
This Garnet has a replacement Classic Tone OT and Weber speaker, which probably ups the ooomph over the original setup. It also runs a single 6L6 instead of the lower power 6V6 one sees in other Gnomes.
@@ptwamps3682 Can you say which Weber Speaker ? I really liked the tone and would look to use that in my 6L6 single ended amp. Thanks.
@@transpermeance1535 The Weber is a Silver-Ten, Classic British series. Cheers.
Surprising. The Traynor sounded thin by comparison. Back in the day, i had a Traynor YGM-3 combo, for a 20 watt amp it was super loud and clear and with pedals, sounded incredible.
I’ve probably owned around 50 Garnets and Traynor over the years, I still have 10 left. Hidden gems for sure.
I've owned a few myself (nowhere near 50). I prefer the lower output Traynors (YBA-2, YGM-2, YGM-3) to bigger heads. When I was touring, I used a Garnet Gnome for a while, slaved into a larger Peavey to get more stage volume.
PTW Amps - yeah such cool amps. I was playing my United (Garnet) D45T yesterday, I cant figure out what speaker is in it, I don’t think it’s a Marsland, has a large square magnet, maybe CTS or Eminence? Great sounding amp, really warm and dynamic, I’d like to get a bit more top end and gain out of it, all the tubes have been replaced so I’ll see what I can do next. The days of finding them for $50.00 are over but I still stumble across the odd deal.
@@regortex3364 If the speaker has a code, look for a number series beginning "67" (Eminence) or "137" (CTS). Canadian Marslands would usually have the letter code "DG". Radio Speakers of Canada (another common on in old Canadian amps) are coded "DW." I have a quad of early 70s Eminence in my Super Reverb and they have black frames with a prominent square magnet.
Some amps will lose their top end as the old ceramic caps (the ones used in the tone circuit to create high pass filters for treble) wear out. That Traynor in the video had that problem -- muddy and lifeless sounding, but mica caps in place of the old ceramics brought the chime back in.
PTW Amps - hey thanks for the tips, I thought that changing the caps would be a start. It has a 67 on the magnet so it looks like it’s an Eminence, probably not stock I assume?
For cleans, I liked the Pine the best. With the Guv' nor in front, I think the Garnet sounded best! Hard to tell though,as the amps voicings and settings are different. In reality, all sound great, and could be adjusted to fit any guitarist's tastes.
I like Canadian Amps. I am slowly collecting them too. You have a nice collection & you did a good demo. Thank you.
They're a lot of fun to collect. Thanks for commenting.
All so unique and wonderful. A more realistic comparison could have been demonstrated by placing the SM-57 directly on-axis to each speaker at say, a meter distance.
That would remove some of the microphones placement variables such as its directionality and proximity effect from the equation.
Great video :)
Nice showcase. The Garnet was a monster.
I have a Traynor YSR-1 (Nov’69), a Garnet Rebel Deluxe, and a Pine Electric branded Mansfield - looks like a Riviera 725. I used the Garnet Rebel Deluxe paired with a Yorkville Bloc 100GT in stereo as my live rig for 10 years. They were louder than God... great video!!!
Nice collection! I also have a Mansfield by Pine -- yes, it would be the 725 model. Those are probably the best amps Pine made.
PTW Amps weirdly, mine is a combo with a single 12” speaker. Not sure it really is a 725. It has three inputs...
@@drmarcfpelletier So many variations on the Pines and Lifcos, it gets bewildering. The 725s I've seen have all been heads about the size of 60s Bassmans, in one of two configurations: 2X 6V6 (about 15 watts) or 2X 6L6 (about 50 watts, like the one I have). ... 3 inputs sounds more like the Model 201, although there are perhaps others I am not aware of. My impression is that Saul Pinchuk/ Pine would just adapt his designs to whatever the customers wanted... and badge them accordingly.
I have 2 Imperial heads and 2x12 cabinets ,made by Lifco. Love the sound.
I've repaired a couple of the "Imperial" Lifco heads, the 800 model. Those and the (very similar) Pine 725s are diamonds in the rough. I've never come across their 2X12 cabs.
Awrsum
Had many Trayors being only several hours from Canada. 🙂
I'm a drummer but I collect amps.Mostly Garnet and Traynor. Mann 212 2 6l6, (traded for) Traynor Bassmaster, Traynor Bassmate 2 6v6 head, Garnet Rebel 2 112 26l6, Garnet Deputy 115 2 6l6, Viscount L'l Rock 2 6v6. Love the tones!
Sounds like a nice collection. Can't go wrong with those!
As far as tone and overall sound ,, I gotta go with the first Pine / Paul amp.. It has a very sweet tone .. At least in my ear pods 🤷♂️
The tremolo on the Traynor was a surprise. Really interesting circuit.
I'm a big fan of the smaller Traynor combos over the big YBAs. Cheers.
@@ptwamps3682 We don’t see many Traynor s down here. In the 90’s they were a popular amp to do a gain boost on.
@@keenedgedesigns "Marshallizing" old Traynors is a popular pastime up here in Canada, but it is often done badly. The YGM in this video was in fact modded (gain boost, master vol.) before I got it and sounded ho-hum
@@ptwamps3682 In the 90’s that was a popular mod people would do on Traynors. However, being California the are a bit rarified out here.
That Lifco sounds like a lot of fun :) Nice shootout and info, thanks!
Grab those Lifco 630s when you find em cheap! Thanks for the comment.
still have a yvm6 pa , but great practic amp
Nice video Pete!
seems like the Garnet is a lot like a Fender Deluxe Reverb or a Princeton Reverb 68 while the Trayor is more of its own distinctive tone - is that a fair assessment. I have a Garnet Revolution 1 from 1971 and a Traynor YGM 3 from 1969 - I like them both
Tone-wise, I'd compare the Garnet more to a tweed Fender, such as the single-ended tweed Princeton (5F2) of the mid-50s. Of course, that addition of reverb and tremelo does make it more typically Sixties, but the natural grit and breakup is quite different from the cleaner/ mid-scooped 60s Fenders.
@@ptwamps3682 thanks for the very useful input - I guess that profile tone wise might make the Garnet even more awesome - I run V30 speaker in it
YGM-3 is a killer underrated amp. I had one for quite awhile, along with a a YGL-3 Mark III I used depending on the venue we played at the time.
Howdy eh! 🇨🇦
Garnet with that overdrive? Get outta here. So good!
Love these amps! Try not to say "weeber". Respect Canada.
Nice roundup, I wasn't familiar with Lifco. Hey, do you have thoughts on the Traynor TS-15? I think a pair of 8s is interesting. (Or is it just a practice squawk box?)
I have no direct experience with the TS-15, although I had a TS-25 in the shop a year or too ago and thought it a pretty good sounding solid state amp. I did a comparison between that amp and a tube YBA-2 combo a while back... should be listed on my channel. In terms of 8s... I'm not a big fan. Whenever I can get away with at least a 10, I go for that, for a more fully-rounded tone -- but it's just a matter of preference.
@@ptwamps3682 Makes sense. Thanks.
Kinda late but the cheapest amp I have is a TS-15 and the two eights make sixteen inches of speaker. They are not shit box amps by any means! Give it a try...You might be in for a shock but in a good way! Cheers !
@@rldukes4 Thanks for your thoughts. Found a used one and I love it!
Hi,is Lifco 630 also a widow maker amp or it is safe to play it stock?
Lifco 630 is perfectly safe. It has an isolation power transformer. Its circuit is much like a point-to-point version of a 60s Vox or Marshall 18 watt. Just be sure to install a modern 3-prong AC cable with a safety ground to the chassis.
I'm looking at getting a Garnet Mach V, which seems to have only been made '69-'71. The guy has a 2x12 version. And I can't find anything whatsoever about this model. I just emailed Garnet's parts dept. about tube replacement possibilities. I'm no amp expert at all. Any thoughts?
ps-just for info curiousity-right now i have a tiny little Traynor solid state; which is occasionally interesting, and a Crate 32 Palamino; which I think is pretty awesome-it's known for running hot and the guys had turned the bias down a bit. Cheers.
ps-just heard back from guy at Garnet saying lots of suitable tubes available, so i'm probably good. :-)
I don't know much about that particular model. I'd suggest consulting the Canadian Amplifier Forum on Facebook or the amp forum pages on Guitars Canada/ Canadian Guitar Forum. Lots of folks there who may know more about that particular Garnet.
@@ptwamps3682 Merci Beaucoup! (I had assumed Garnet was French)
Nice I have the revolution 1
Is it good? Loud?
@@mikejamieson419 yeah it’s gets loud
Too loud for the living room
I have a 12” Fane from an old hi watt stack in it
Isn't this more of a speaker comparison than anything else?
The only fair comparison would be to run them all into the same speaker setup.
No, because each amplifier is a different design, and the cabinet and speaker type and size are both part of that design. Doing it your way would be comparing different amp circuits, not different amplifiers.
@@ptwamps3682 Yes, but . . . . If these were my amps the first thing I'd do is plug them up to a decent speaker, so I could judge what the amps sounds like apart from a speaker that was not considered as part of the design of the amp. They just used whatever they could readily and cheaply get their hands on. I'd be willing to bet that viewers preferences would change if these were all plugged up to the same quality speaker setup.
I see the value in what you present. It doesn't serve my needs, but everybody is different.
Not necessarily. All amplifiers will respond differently to a specific set of Thiele/ Small speaker parameters of a particular driver.
Wow didn't expect that 🤔 I liked the lefco best not as ice pickey
Tonally what are Traynor YBA2b and Traynor YGM3 similar to? Also I prefer Vox and Fender amps, but don't want something with too quick response.
YBA2 version with 6V6s is generally along the lines of a tweed Deluxe 5E3 with guitar (I once plugged a YBA2 into a 5E3 cabinet and the similarities were remarkable). YBA2/ 2B also comes in a EL84 version which I've only heard once but was a bit brighter. The combos depend a lot on the speaker. I think YBA generally is better as a head paired with a good cab loaded with a Celestion or WGS speaker. ... YGM3 is much like the YGM2 in this video, except with reverb and some circuit differences. I think the Marshall 18-watt 'mini-Bluesbreaker' is about the best comparison.
@@ptwamps3682 thank you. I am trying to find something deluxe like with vox character, while also not being to quick responding, a little sag and good harmonics. Do these Traynor amps sag or are they quick and articulate?
@@pastorkev777 Generally speaking tube rectified will give more sag which in the case of Traynor means seek out earlier ones (script logo although even those have solid state diodes by around 1969). The 70s YGMs are solid state rectified with little sag... quick and tight response.
@@ptwamps3682 thank you.
Is paul a member of your band?
1 Garnet
2 Pepco
3 Lifco and Traynor
pine amps are overrated if you ask me they just don't have that warm pleasing-to-the-ear tube sound like a fender champ but old traynor and garnet amps are fantastic and I once had an old "Lero" brand, Canadian-made amp it was tall and big enough to be a 2X12 but it had like 1x8 speaker LOL but it had that warm tube sound all day long
Traynor are garbage.Just like Lloyds Stereo's
Countless Traynors are still operating after 50 to 55 years. That wouldn't be the case if they were "garbage". A lot of them do have issues from being butchered or poorly maintained, though, but handwired circuits (something Lloyd's stereos don't have) can always be fixed.
@@ptwamps3682 its the image they project. They are ugly at least the older ones are. The only professional i saw use one was i think Eric Clapton a long time ago b4 he moved onto Fender amps. They might be reliable but not talked about much among guitarist. Image is a big thing. Overall Marshall has the image and sound. Fender has the sound more than the image. Then there is boogie. Great amps
Allan is full of 💩. Here you go buddy 🧻
Fender quality LOL. Fan boy lol funny