I have read both. I had a great time with both. Objectively, though, EoS is much muuuuuch better as a novel. Ruocchio is just a better writer. His prose is better, his characterization is better, his world building is better, his dialogue is better, his ideas are better. I also don't understand how people think that RR and EoS are similar. What exactly are the similarities? A male protagonist in a sci fi setting? EoS is a slow burn, deeply philosophical space opera about an alien invasion. RR is a revolution turned Hunger Games on another planet.
Lots of fun guys! Great guests for this one of course. I do think these games need a category that is "prose" or "writing" because it's such a vital part of a story. For instance on some of these categories, it would make it seem like RR was better for me (I would score it way higher on plot, character, ending), Sun Eater is just written much much better to me (in that first book, especially) and would be the chief reason for me to place Empire of Silence above Red Rising.
If we are just talking the first books then this is hardly fair. Red Rising is a more violent Hunger games while EoS is a slow burn with way better character development and world building. Suneater knocks this one out of the park. All this said, the next red rising books get way better.
It really should be Golden Son (Red Rising Book 2) vs Demon in White (Suneater Book 3) as they're the best in the series and are past the setup phase of both series. Solid video though!
Red Rising famously had the wolves that Sevro hunted for their pelts. 🐺 Hail Reaper! ❤💛 However I’m in the middle of reading Demon in White and it’s amazing! 🤍🖤
Both books are so darn good-I think what makes the biggest impact is character voice. Red rising has more quantity of fleshed out voices-but I felt Hadrian even in book one had a more defined voice than Darrow-that said he is twice Darrow’s age at the start of the book 😂 Thanks for the discussion guys! Was very awesome to see the two book one’s side by side
My biggest problem with suneater is shit just happens to Hadrian then he complains about it. He rarely feels like he has any agency or drive. He’s just entitled and upset that life isn’t what he thinks it should be for him. Darrow makes shit happen. Even if he makes mistakes he at least takes control of his life.
Not even a question - Sun Eater is way, way better than Red Rising. Also, Sun Eater is an adult book, while Red Rising is for early teens, maybe up to early 20s audience for enjoyment...
Im really surprised by some of those scores from my own experience with both books. Plots were just average for both for me...i dont really care about plot much myself though. Characters were where i really differentiated between the 2. I loved Hadrians POV right off and the characters felt far more developed. Lots of characters who felt much more unique and fleshed out. Red Rising did introduce a ton of characters but by the end of book 1 the names could have been swapped around for most of them and it wouldnt change anything for me. Bad stuff would happen to people and id have to go and flip back pages to see who this character was and why i should care.
Not a fan of any of the two but I preferred The Red Rising series. I think it served its purpose in a more succesful way. I have the same opinion of Brown's prose compared to Ruocchio's.
Sun Eater felt a bit too much of a Dune clone so I DNF'd it. Red Rising was more choosy with what it borrowed from Dune, so it didn't feel like a ripoff to me. I might go back to Sun Eater one day, but I don't know when maybe someday. And the other was that I didn't really care for a lot of the characters in Sun Eater including the narrator.
Red rising is such a perplexing series. I think book 1 is bad. Because the first 100 pages are awesome...and the hunger games section is just terrible. Book 2 was better but...eh. had a realy hard time following along with it. Now im 200 pages into book 3 and im loving book 3. So...? Idk how i feel about this series at all
Yeah I just re read the first book and it is great until you get to the institute then the pacing does slow down but it's not long so it's not awful. I found it got better in GS and MS but then the issue kinda comes up again in Iron Gold.
Can’t stand red rising. Should’ve DNF’d book one but had to see what everyone was talking about. Started book two cause people say it’s so much better and couldn’t make it more than a chapter in. Horrible
I can't say which is the better series. I have not read Empire of Silence but have read the 1st 4 books of Red Rising. Red Rising series I would give never recommend. It seems very superficial. The best I can say is pacing was good but for the story it was a huge disappointment especially when it shows up on so many best SF lists. For the whole Darrow is stuck in an ongoing cycle of trusting, being betrayed and trusting again. There are much better series out there. Just because of all the gushing love for Red Rising done by the same people that gush about Empire of Silence, I'm not sure if I'll ever read that series. Still have 2 Red Rising books to get through. I heard that the 2nd trilogy gets darker. So far it's better than the 1st 3 books but that isn't saying much. Red Rising is one of the biggest disappointments.
Not shallow at all. The books read like YA novels but the philosophical ideas are incredibly profound. What does absolute power do to the character of humans? Can people change if given trust and friendship? Do your worst mistakes define you, and can evil be forgiven? There are so many profound ideas explored especially in Golden Son. Book 1 might be the weakest of the series but Book 2 and 3 are truly special.
@@dvillegaspro The themes the series tries to explore may be profound but the way they are explored is often very shallow and heavy handed. In my opinion themes should be subtle, almost subliminal. Something your subconscious may pick up on but your conscious often doesn't. Aspects that are only revealed on deeper reflection on the material. My problem with Brown's writing is that the themes are explored in such a transparent and overt manner. There is no nuance. There is no subtext. He doesn't let you think for yourself or draw your own conclusions. It's always extremely obvious what he is getting at because more often than not he just spells it out for you. I mean he literally calls his racist class-system "The Society" which idolises and emulates the Roman Empire, it can't get any more on-the-nose than that. Brown also doesn't really provide any particularly new or unique thoughts or insights on the themes he explores, he is just reiterating the same points every other dystopian tale makes but with nothing added beyond a different coat of paint.
@@amysteriousviewer3772 I do agree largely with what you're saying. Most of the time you are getting all the philosophizing through Darrow's inner monologue, and there are moments where you feel like "yeah, I get it, you don't have to keep saying it." But I think looking past some of the weaker aspects of the prose I can still say overall I would give the series high praise. In particular, I disagree that Brown doesn't say anything unique. Nothing new under the sun, that's not a great critique, in my opinion, of anything. I think he does have a powerful message which is that friendship, trust, and love can overcome the worst parts of other people. Darrow is not a perfect character by any means, but his relationship with the Golds communicates that even those we consider evil can grow into people we care for.
@@dvillegaspro The series definitely has merit and deserves some praise, don't get me wrong. Brown definitely knows how to tell a story in a way that keeps you entertained and hooked. I also didn't mean to say that there are absolutely no unique aspects to Brown's work only that the way he writes about themes often seemed very familiar to me and didn't really encourage me to look at something in a different way like many great stories do. "People are nuanced and complex, racism and prejudice is bad" is a good message but it's not exactly ground-breaking stuff. Stories I personally consider deep or profound are those that manage to genuinely challenge my world view and in some cases even change, alter or expand it in unexpected ways.
Red rising is glorified YA slop. All the perspective of an eighth grade history class. Empire of silence is better written and contains ideas that are interesting to educated adults.
The use of classical Earth history referents in Empire of Silence keeps pulling me out of the book. Like when the MC speaks Latin to a guard. I just have trouble picturing a universe that’s as far flung as that of Dune romanticizing Earth history in the same way we do. Like haven’t there been significant developments in the ~10,000 years since Earth died? It reads more like the MC is someone that’s teleported out of 2020s era Earth vs someone from the story world.
Well the thing is, the longer something has stuck around the more likely it is to continue sticking around into the future. Stories that are 5000 years old already are obviously incredibly powerful to have been kept so long in so many different cultural canons. It's not unlikely at all that they'd have the same stories 10,000 years from now. In fact it's almost impossible that they won't. Your idea that they'd just forget all these things is much more of a "2020's bias" than Ruocchio's view that they'd remember them.
@@MusicEnjoyerSLS it’s not so much that I think they’d forget, I just don’t think these references should be so abundant. It’s something like one per chapter so far and I’m 90 pages in. It reads more like it’s coming from the author than the character.
@maff_ I can agree there. It's even more prevalent in the second book from my experience so far. My biggest criticism of the series as a whole is that EVERYTHING is done too much. Temperance and moderation are not in Ruocchio's wheelhouse at all. They could be great 400 page books.
@@MusicEnjoyerSLS yes! I totally agree. It’s been a nice research book in that regard for my own writing seeing the type of prose I want to cut haha. Some of the philosophical waxings are just a bit too heavy handed it feels. Regardless I still plan on finishing it to do it justice. And I thank you for the discussion good sir
Both books are deeply based in Roman History, so I don't really understand why it would bother you in the one but not the other... Still, I understand how real history sneaking in a Sci-fi Fantasy plot could be distracting... and the author does tend to go overboard with the prose a bit... But Red Rising was so shallow and forgettable in comparison...
![VICTOR Denmark Open 2024 | An Se Young (KOR) [1] vs. Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] | SF](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y3QEyCih85s/mqdefault.jpg)
I have read both. I had a great time with both. Objectively, though, EoS is much muuuuuch better as a novel. Ruocchio is just a better writer. His prose is better, his characterization is better, his world building is better, his dialogue is better, his ideas are better. I also don't understand how people think that RR and EoS are similar. What exactly are the similarities? A male protagonist in a sci fi setting? EoS is a slow burn, deeply philosophical space opera about an alien invasion. RR is a revolution turned Hunger Games on another planet.
I’m one minute in, and I couldn’t help but think, “I bet this’ll be Austin vs everybody.” 😂
Someone understands 😂
Wouldn’t really matter if you hadn’t made it series or just book 1, sun eater wins regardless 😅
Hell yah
Lots of fun guys! Great guests for this one of course. I do think these games need a category that is "prose" or "writing" because it's such a vital part of a story. For instance on some of these categories, it would make it seem like RR was better for me (I would score it way higher on plot, character, ending), Sun Eater is just written much much better to me (in that first book, especially) and would be the chief reason for me to place Empire of Silence above Red Rising.
The true greatest crossover of our generation.
I agree with Mike...I absolutely love both series, and the books of each are all 5 stars with me.
I thought Red Rising had a decent shot until it was mentioned that the battle was between the first books… F
If we are just talking the first books then this is hardly fair. Red Rising is a more violent Hunger games while EoS is a slow burn with way better character development and world building. Suneater knocks this one out of the park. All this said, the next red rising books get way better.
It really should be Golden Son (Red Rising Book 2) vs Demon in White (Suneater Book 3) as they're the best in the series and are past the setup phase of both series. Solid video though!
I absolutely love both series but Red Rising delivers more of an emotional punch for me so it gets the edge #HailReaper 🦊
Red Rising famously had the wolves that Sevro hunted for their pelts. 🐺 Hail Reaper! ❤💛
However I’m in the middle of reading Demon in White and it’s amazing! 🤍🖤
Demon in White is SO GOOD!
Both books are so darn good-I think what makes the biggest impact is character voice. Red rising has more quantity of fleshed out voices-but I felt Hadrian even in book one had a more defined voice than Darrow-that said he is twice Darrow’s age at the start of the book 😂
Thanks for the discussion guys! Was very awesome to see the two book one’s side by side
🤓 at the start of book hardian is thousand+ years old that bit more than twice darrow 🤣
@@k3m0t19 oh in empire? I coulda sworn he was 30 at the start of book one
@@k3m0t19 unless you’re referring to him writing the narrative
I love both.. they both have great idea and writing
That intro is soooo good!
My biggest problem with suneater is shit just happens to Hadrian then he complains about it. He rarely feels like he has any agency or drive. He’s just entitled and upset that life isn’t what he thinks it should be for him. Darrow makes shit happen. Even if he makes mistakes he at least takes control of his life.
Not even a question - Sun Eater is way, way better than Red Rising. Also, Sun Eater is an adult book, while Red Rising is for early teens, maybe up to early 20s audience for enjoyment...
They’re both great. I can’t help but take the series as a whole and Suneater is goated imo.
Im really surprised by some of those scores from my own experience with both books. Plots were just average for both for me...i dont really care about plot much myself though.
Characters were where i really differentiated between the 2. I loved Hadrians POV right off and the characters felt far more developed. Lots of characters who felt much more unique and fleshed out.
Red Rising did introduce a ton of characters but by the end of book 1 the names could have been swapped around for most of them and it wouldnt change anything for me. Bad stuff would happen to people and id have to go and flip back pages to see who this character was and why i should care.
This was a fun watch. Soooooo close.
It really was pretty close! 😂 Even with the creatures category 👽
This was surprisingly close. Personally think that creatures section shouldn't have been there even as the bigger Sun Eater fan that i am
Not a fan of any of the two but I preferred The Red Rising series. I think it served its purpose in a more succesful way. I have the same opinion of Brown's prose compared to Ruocchio's.
Creatures coming in clutch
👽
EOS is the better series. The writing, character work and world building was much stronger then RR.
Sun Eater as a whole is the much better series
I love both series but if I had to pick one I would go with red rising. They have one thing in common, the first book is the weakest of the series
Sun Eater felt a bit too much of a Dune clone so I DNF'd it. Red Rising was more choosy with what it borrowed from Dune, so it didn't feel like a ripoff to me. I might go back to Sun Eater one day, but I don't know when maybe someday. And the other was that I didn't really care for a lot of the characters in Sun Eater including the narrator.
@@currangill430 I still say it gets less Duney after about 50ish% into the book 😂 The series overall though feels much different compared to Dune
Red rising is such a perplexing series. I think book 1 is bad. Because the first 100 pages are awesome...and the hunger games section is just terrible. Book 2 was better but...eh. had a realy hard time following along with it. Now im 200 pages into book 3 and im loving book 3. So...? Idk how i feel about this series at all
Book 2 is definitely the best of the three, at least most people share that opinion. But I absolutely loved book 3 as well.
Yeah I just re read the first book and it is great until you get to the institute then the pacing does slow down but it's not long so it's not awful.
I found it got better in GS and MS but then the issue kinda comes up again in Iron Gold.
Can’t stand red rising. Should’ve DNF’d book one but had to see what everyone was talking about. Started book two cause people say it’s so much better and couldn’t make it more than a chapter in. Horrible
Absolutely L take Golden Son is UNBEATABLE
You sound like the one star reviews they read about golden son lol
@@Rumham729 that's what I was thinking lol
I get if the pov of Darrow isn't your cup of tea but Golden sun is one of if not the best book in the entire series.
I can't say which is the better series. I have not read Empire of Silence but have read the 1st 4 books of Red Rising.
Red Rising series I would give never recommend. It seems very superficial. The best I can say is pacing was good but for the story it was a huge disappointment especially when it shows up on so many best SF lists. For the whole Darrow is stuck in an ongoing cycle of trusting, being betrayed and trusting again. There are much better series out there.
Just because of all the gushing love for Red Rising done by the same people that gush about Empire of Silence, I'm not sure if I'll ever read that series. Still have 2 Red Rising books to get through. I heard that the 2nd trilogy gets darker. So far it's better than the 1st 3 books but that isn't saying much.
Red Rising is one of the biggest disappointments.
Rigged 😂
Red rising so overrated. It's just ok. Sequels are better but series is just ok. Nothing special. Sun eater much better. But only my opinion.
That's exactly it. Red Rising are popcorn books. It's fine, it's entertaining, it's also extremely shallow and often dumb.
Not shallow at all. The books read like YA novels but the philosophical ideas are incredibly profound. What does absolute power do to the character of humans? Can people change if given trust and friendship? Do your worst mistakes define you, and can evil be forgiven? There are so many profound ideas explored especially in Golden Son. Book 1 might be the weakest of the series but Book 2 and 3 are truly special.
@@dvillegaspro The themes the series tries to explore may be profound but the way they are explored is often very shallow and heavy handed. In my opinion themes should be subtle, almost subliminal. Something your subconscious may pick up on but your conscious often doesn't. Aspects that are only revealed on deeper reflection on the material.
My problem with Brown's writing is that the themes are explored in such a transparent and overt manner. There is no nuance. There is no subtext. He doesn't let you think for yourself or draw your own conclusions. It's always extremely obvious what he is getting at because more often than not he just spells it out for you. I mean he literally calls his racist class-system "The Society" which idolises and emulates the Roman Empire, it can't get any more on-the-nose than that.
Brown also doesn't really provide any particularly new or unique thoughts or insights on the themes he explores, he is just reiterating the same points every other dystopian tale makes but with nothing added beyond a different coat of paint.
@@amysteriousviewer3772 I do agree largely with what you're saying. Most of the time you are getting all the philosophizing through Darrow's inner monologue, and there are moments where you feel like "yeah, I get it, you don't have to keep saying it." But I think looking past some of the weaker aspects of the prose I can still say overall I would give the series high praise. In particular, I disagree that Brown doesn't say anything unique. Nothing new under the sun, that's not a great critique, in my opinion, of anything. I think he does have a powerful message which is that friendship, trust, and love can overcome the worst parts of other people. Darrow is not a perfect character by any means, but his relationship with the Golds communicates that even those we consider evil can grow into people we care for.
@@dvillegaspro The series definitely has merit and deserves some praise, don't get me wrong. Brown definitely knows how to tell a story in a way that keeps you entertained and hooked. I also didn't mean to say that there are absolutely no unique aspects to Brown's work only that the way he writes about themes often seemed very familiar to me and didn't really encourage me to look at something in a different way like many great stories do. "People are nuanced and complex, racism and prejudice is bad" is a good message but it's not exactly ground-breaking stuff. Stories I personally consider deep or profound are those that manage to genuinely challenge my world view and in some cases even change, alter or expand it in unexpected ways.
Red rising is glorified YA slop. All the perspective of an eighth grade history class.
Empire of silence is better written and contains ideas that are interesting to educated adults.
The use of classical Earth history referents in Empire of Silence keeps pulling me out of the book. Like when the MC speaks Latin to a guard.
I just have trouble picturing a universe that’s as far flung as that of Dune romanticizing Earth history in the same way we do. Like haven’t there been significant developments in the ~10,000 years since Earth died?
It reads more like the MC is someone that’s teleported out of 2020s era Earth vs someone from the story world.
Well the thing is, the longer something has stuck around the more likely it is to continue sticking around into the future. Stories that are 5000 years old already are obviously incredibly powerful to have been kept so long in so many different cultural canons. It's not unlikely at all that they'd have the same stories 10,000 years from now. In fact it's almost impossible that they won't. Your idea that they'd just forget all these things is much more of a "2020's bias" than Ruocchio's view that they'd remember them.
@@MusicEnjoyerSLS it’s not so much that I think they’d forget, I just don’t think these references should be so abundant. It’s something like one per chapter so far and I’m 90 pages in. It reads more like it’s coming from the author than the character.
@maff_ I can agree there. It's even more prevalent in the second book from my experience so far. My biggest criticism of the series as a whole is that EVERYTHING is done too much. Temperance and moderation are not in Ruocchio's wheelhouse at all. They could be great 400 page books.
@@MusicEnjoyerSLS yes! I totally agree. It’s been a nice research book in that regard for my own writing seeing the type of prose I want to cut haha. Some of the philosophical waxings are just a bit too heavy handed it feels.
Regardless I still plan on finishing it to do it justice. And I thank you for the discussion good sir
Both books are deeply based in Roman History, so I don't really understand why it would bother you in the one but not the other... Still, I understand how real history sneaking in a Sci-fi Fantasy plot could be distracting... and the author does tend to go overboard with the prose a bit... But Red Rising was so shallow and forgettable in comparison...