This man has done the postmortem of Imran Khan and PTI. In fact PTI Cult can be exposed by such people and this misguided cult suffers a lot from people like Rehan Siddiqui.Keep it Up Boss 👍
This is one of the best podcasts I’ve ever listened to. I understand it might be difficult for PTI followers to accept what’s being discussed. People really need to learn how to critically analyze the events happening around them to be able to make informed decisions and to avoid becoming a part of cults repeatedly
An establishment apologist, interesting choice of burden to bear. I didn't think the arguments were very convincing but gotta love a fellow contrarian.
Imran Khan is not against the Establishment. Today, it is in his interest to do all this, tomorrow, he will take a u turn and his fans will follow him.
@@AliHaiderZaidi96not at all. I’m not anti PTI. I do disagree with some of their views but the idea with this podcast is to showcase all sides. We’ve had so many PTI voices on in the last few months as well. 🙏
Shaya almost through the 80% of the video. Maza agya yaar discussion ka. Although i disagree with this person alot but the way the discourse was carried was really amazing.
This person looks also planted by establishment, just like Imran Khan, and Nawaz sharif, Nawaz sharif was also an original project of establishment, but no one calls him a project
Firstly, let me tell me I'm not a fan of Imran khan and secondly, with all due respect, you did not mention one point/policy that Imran Khan did wrong. I am against cult creation and he's not the first one to do so nor he wont be the last one. We have several examples of that (both good and bad) for the likes of ZA Bhutto, Musharraf, Modi, Altaf Hussain etc so looking down upon someone only on that bases seems more of a personal issue rather than the policy disagreement. Wish you well in life Mr Siddique.
First of all, please know the difference between a cult and dictatorship. Secondly, is there a PTI without Khan? The closest may be Altaf from your examples. See how many of the following (all) fit IK and followers: Cult traits: 1. Isolating members and penalizing them for leaving. 2. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders. 3. Dishonoring the family unit. 4. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability. 5. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. 6. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding expenses. 7. Unreasonable fear/hate about the outside world such as evil conspiracies, corruption and persecutions. 8. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil. 9. Followers feel they can never be "good enough". 10. The group/leader is always right. 11. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
IMK has not been a good advocate and leader for Pakistan - he has no economic policy, no social deradicalization plan, no upliftment policy for the population in Pakistan 🇵🇰 He is a power hungry politician who is a narcissist motivated by power only.
@@Xehr1 have you seen a detailed white paper on the ehsaas program detailing out the goal, objectives and steps to be undertaken to implement this programs, it’s associated costs and funding process over a period of time - let us Say 5 years on national basis. Or was it just a populist announcement to provide headline news and its subsequent implementation was improvised and ad hoc. History will provide the assessment based on the above two points to explain the political implications.
@@RHRH-RL also I'd like to see you say that to any of the millions who could access emergency healthcare thanks to this programme. I think they'd tell you to shove your critique of the white paper where it don't shine, they're just grateful
@@Xehr1 when your budget depends on foreign donations then sustainability is an important consideration- you need to have a plan especially in a state where the elite aggrandizes economic resources
Flawed Assumption of Khan as an "Establishment Project" Atif’s narrative revolves entirely around the assumption that Imran Khan was a project of the establishment, and the conversation builds upon this faulty premise. Both Atif and the host appear to accept this notion uncritically. This leads to a biased discussion, where every subsequent argument is based on an assumption that was never properly questioned. It's essential to note that assumptions should not be treated as facts. Grassroots Support and Historical Context Imran Khan's political party, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), enjoyed grassroots support long before he rose to power in 2018. While General Hamid Gul may have initially encouraged Khan to enter politics in the 1990s, Hamid Gul passed away in 2015, long before PTI gained significant power. Meanwhile, it's important to highlight that Nawaz Sharif also benefited from the establishment during General Zia-ul-Haq's regime, who supported him early on as Finance Minister. Similarly, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was indirectly backed by General Yahya Khan during the transition period from military to civilian rule. These precedents show that political figures across different eras have had varying levels of establishment involvement-not just Khan. Corruption Cases Pre-date Khan’s Rise Corruption allegations and cases against major parties like the PPP and PML-N were initiated long before Imran Khan became politically relevant. For instance, Asif Ali Zardari was jailed on corruption charges during Nawaz Sharif's first tenure, as Sharif used the same anti-corruption narrative to consolidate power. If we argue that these cases were initiated by the establishment, then it is inconsistent to call only Imran Khan a "project" while ignoring that previous leaders like Bhutto and Sharif were also supported or manipulated by the same establishment at different times. Independent Popularity of Imran Khan Khan's anti-corruption and governance reform message resonated strongly with Pakistan's middle class and youth, which was independent of any establishment support. The establishment might have aligned itself with Khan temporarily to ride on the popularity wave, but they did not facilitate his success entirely. In fact, there is evidence of sabotage-such as the collapse of the RTS system during the 2018 elections. This led to a reduced majority for Khan, which allowed the establishment to keep a balance of power and exert influence. The Real "Project of the Establishment" - PDM If one were to look for a recent example of a political project backed by the establishment, the Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM) fits the bill more accurately. The PDM, an alliance of opposition parties, reflects the establishment’s attempt to regain control, but it lacks national-level support and legitimacy. As such, the PDM is more likely to fail, as it does not represent the genuine aspirations of the people, unlike Khan’s PTI, which drew power from grassroots movements.
The miltablisment has used and abused a national hero like Imran khan 😢😢 He's in jail because of the real problem of Pakistan Pakistanis needs to learn how politics work in real life
There is no doubt that all prime ministers of Pakistan were supported by Military establishment Yes they also supported khan but khan did the hardwork himself unlike Nawaz sharif who was playing club cricket and was suddenly appointed Finance minister during martial law of Zia Ul Haq Unlike Bhutto who was prepared in the laboratory of military establishment Even Benazir and Zardari didn't have to work to make their name But khan on the other hand has made his name on his own By becoming te most successful Pakistani cricket captain then by building first cancer hospital in Pakistan When he joined politics he had to make his name again He only caught the sight of establishment when he pulled an immense crowd at Minar e pakistan but pulling that crowd was his own struggle Even in 2018 elections e wasn't allowed to make 2/3 majority gov as khwaja asif himself admitted that he called a brigadier and wjen he was loosing election He had the public support as he still has thats why he believes in public support more than getting NROs from establishment
This was so shameful that he agreed to use religion for gaining success in politics. He is not the most popular leader but yet his cult believes that he is. If he was the most popular leader then Imran Khan wouldn't have used faiz to control the opposition parties during his era.
Immune vaali baat to ek dum sahi kahi hai inhone .. Repetition of events so much that CITIZENS DONT CARE ABOUT MUCH . World doesn't care , even muslims whats happening in gaza and Ukraine..
Why do you think that public is foolish and can be trapped by any politician or even by establishment just by propaganda and money. I can't buy this argument
Well the way Imran Khan came into power and the way he ran the government Nothing natural or right about it, He was hand to hand with ISI and there is no difference between him and other politicians Imran Khan introduced Facism and now he is suffering at the hands of the system that he himself made strong
@@yhz2K yes, there is no difference between someone who had the govt for 3.5 years and someone who ran Pakistan for 15 years. Yes, there is no difference between sharif and zardari who ran out of Pakistan and imran khan who choose to remain in Pakistan. Yes there is no difference between A corrupt Zardari and sharif and imran khan against whom you had to make a case of iddat. Theek hogya
Once i heard from one of high court judge that when any member from our bench recite Hadith And ayat instead of constitution that time we all know that now he had nothing left to Charged ağainst that person Thatshow your guest is saying that when judiciary is incompetent then Allah Ask etc bla bla🤣😂why not you ask who control Judiciary what 6 judges from ISLAMABAD High court write in a latter to Cjp about establishment..
What an stupid man. Offers nothing concrete or proper answers and everything is just speculation. I can bet he applied for tickets didn't get just like Hassan ayub.
This man has done the postmortem of Imran Khan and PTI. In fact PTI Cult can be exposed by such people and this misguided cult suffers a lot from people like Rehan Siddiqui.Keep it Up Boss 👍
The documentary is outstanding, no doubt.
Very intense. Atif is the kind of person who should be on mainstream media to explain the chaos created by Imran Khan.
😂😂😂..what chaos
The guest is an enlightened man.
This is one of the best podcasts I’ve ever listened to. I understand it might be difficult for PTI followers to accept what’s being discussed. People really need to learn how to critically analyze the events happening around them to be able to make informed decisions and to avoid becoming a part of cults repeatedly
Bahut Aalaa Podcast
👏👏👏👏👏
Every Pakistani need to listen this , kab tak andhay banay raho gy
An establishment apologist, interesting choice of burden to bear. I didn't think the arguments were very convincing but gotta love a fellow contrarian.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA FR
Imran Khan is not against the Establishment. Today, it is in his interest to do all this, tomorrow, he will take a u turn and his fans will follow him.
Did you guys enjoy this content?
Why have you become so anti IK ?
@@AliHaiderZaidi96not at all. I’m not anti PTI. I do disagree with some of their views but the idea with this podcast is to showcase all sides. We’ve had so many PTI voices on in the last few months as well. 🙏
@@shayanmahmud6832 I still remember when you first appeared on Muzammil hasan podcast in 2021 where you showed your immense support for Khan sb.
@@AliHaiderZaidi96 Yes. Still a fan of some things when it comes to IK. Always will be. We have to be open to all sorts of views and opinions.
Shaya almost through the 80% of the video. Maza agya yaar discussion ka. Although i disagree with this person alot but the way the discourse was carried was really amazing.
Bht khub
Very interesting, informative and logical. To the point discussion and relevant content.
Aankhein khol gaya hai itna kafi hai
This person looks also planted by establishment, just like Imran Khan, and Nawaz sharif, Nawaz sharif was also an original project of establishment, but no one calls him a project
I was also getting the same feeling
trust me hes not lmao 😭
Ok w
These young hosts are mostly fans of Imran Khan.
Excellent analysis
This is intense 😅
This pro youthia host should atleast allow the guest to speak. Too many interceptions
Firstly, let me tell me I'm not a fan of Imran khan and secondly, with all due respect, you did not mention one point/policy that Imran Khan did wrong. I am against cult creation and he's not the first one to do so nor he wont be the last one. We have several examples of that (both good and bad) for the likes of ZA Bhutto, Musharraf, Modi, Altaf Hussain etc so looking down upon someone only on that bases seems more of a personal issue rather than the policy disagreement. Wish you well in life Mr Siddique.
First of all, please know the difference between a cult and dictatorship. Secondly, is there a PTI without Khan? The closest may be Altaf from your examples. See how many of the following (all) fit IK and followers:
Cult traits:
1. Isolating members and penalizing them for leaving.
2. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders.
3. Dishonoring the family unit.
4. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
5. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
6. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding expenses.
7. Unreasonable fear/hate about the outside world such as evil conspiracies, corruption and persecutions.
8. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
9. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
10. The group/leader is always right.
11. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Sir Assalam o Alikum. My name is Muhammad Shujaa I like your content keep it up ❤
Launched
Clearly this man is an Establishment man, even though at some points of the interview he shows some angst against the Military Junta
IMK has not been a good advocate and leader for Pakistan - he has no economic policy, no social deradicalization plan, no upliftment policy for the population in Pakistan 🇵🇰
He is a power hungry politician who is a narcissist motivated by power only.
@@RHRH-RL then explain the Ehsaas health programme pls
@@Xehr1 have you seen a detailed white paper on the ehsaas program detailing out the goal, objectives and steps to be undertaken to implement this programs, it’s associated costs and funding process over a period of time - let us Say 5 years on national basis.
Or was it just a populist announcement to provide headline news and its subsequent implementation was improvised and ad hoc. History will provide the assessment based on the above two points to explain the political implications.
@@RHRH-RL www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=faolex.fao.org/docs/pdf/pak202244.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj2g6nx9JeJAxXJVEEAHZPlJwIQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0czs0YDtLynxOMdxetfdBi
@@RHRH-RL also I'd like to see you say that to any of the millions who could access emergency healthcare thanks to this programme. I think they'd tell you to shove your critique of the white paper where it don't shine, they're just grateful
@@Xehr1 when your budget depends on foreign donations then sustainability is an important consideration- you need to have a plan especially in a state where the elite aggrandizes economic resources
Flawed Assumption of Khan as an "Establishment Project"
Atif’s narrative revolves entirely around the assumption that Imran Khan was a project of the establishment, and the conversation builds upon this faulty premise. Both Atif and the host appear to accept this notion uncritically. This leads to a biased discussion, where every subsequent argument is based on an assumption that was never properly questioned. It's essential to note that assumptions should not be treated as facts.
Grassroots Support and Historical Context
Imran Khan's political party, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), enjoyed grassroots support long before he rose to power in 2018. While General Hamid Gul may have initially encouraged Khan to enter politics in the 1990s, Hamid Gul passed away in 2015, long before PTI gained significant power. Meanwhile, it's important to highlight that Nawaz Sharif also benefited from the establishment during General Zia-ul-Haq's regime, who supported him early on as Finance Minister. Similarly, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was indirectly backed by General Yahya Khan during the transition period from military to civilian rule. These precedents show that political figures across different eras have had varying levels of establishment involvement-not just Khan.
Corruption Cases Pre-date Khan’s Rise
Corruption allegations and cases against major parties like the PPP and PML-N were initiated long before Imran Khan became politically relevant. For instance, Asif Ali Zardari was jailed on corruption charges during Nawaz Sharif's first tenure, as Sharif used the same anti-corruption narrative to consolidate power. If we argue that these cases were initiated by the establishment, then it is inconsistent to call only Imran Khan a "project" while ignoring that previous leaders like Bhutto and Sharif were also supported or manipulated by the same establishment at different times.
Independent Popularity of Imran Khan
Khan's anti-corruption and governance reform message resonated strongly with Pakistan's middle class and youth, which was independent of any establishment support. The establishment might have aligned itself with Khan temporarily to ride on the popularity wave, but they did not facilitate his success entirely. In fact, there is evidence of sabotage-such as the collapse of the RTS system during the 2018 elections. This led to a reduced majority for Khan, which allowed the establishment to keep a balance of power and exert influence.
The Real "Project of the Establishment" - PDM
If one were to look for a recent example of a political project backed by the establishment, the Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM) fits the bill more accurately. The PDM, an alliance of opposition parties, reflects the establishment’s attempt to regain control, but it lacks national-level support and legitimacy. As such, the PDM is more likely to fail, as it does not represent the genuine aspirations of the people, unlike Khan’s PTI, which drew power from grassroots movements.
The thing is He is just giving his opinions against Imran Khan but he has not given a single fact against him.
The miltablisment has used and abused a national hero like Imran khan 😢😢
He's in jail because of the real problem of Pakistan
Pakistanis needs to learn how politics work in real life
Sir ap k mutabik phir nawaz or zardari best hain
He didnt say that once intact he criticised them also
How can one justify PPP and PMLN performance during their governments. However justify them is completely ignorant or intellectually corrupt
Where is the eoc
ruclips.net/video/dhrT2V33nbo/видео.htmlsi=F5dXAoqA8JVTSneh
There is no doubt that all prime ministers of Pakistan were supported by Military establishment
Yes they also supported khan but khan did the hardwork himself unlike Nawaz sharif who was playing club cricket and was suddenly appointed Finance minister during martial law of Zia Ul Haq
Unlike Bhutto who was prepared in the laboratory of military establishment
Even Benazir and Zardari didn't have to work to make their name
But khan on the other hand has made his name on his own By becoming te most successful Pakistani cricket captain then by building first cancer hospital in Pakistan
When he joined politics he had to make his name again
He only caught the sight of establishment when he pulled an immense crowd at Minar e pakistan but pulling that crowd was his own struggle
Even in 2018 elections e wasn't allowed to make 2/3 majority gov as khwaja asif himself admitted that he called a brigadier and wjen he was loosing election
He had the public support as he still has thats why he believes in public support more than getting NROs from establishment
This was so shameful that he agreed to use religion for gaining success in politics. He is not the most popular leader but yet his cult believes that he is. If he was the most popular leader then Imran Khan wouldn't have used faiz to control the opposition parties during his era.
Very logical and thought provoking discourse. He completely obliterated the narrative of Imran Khan and euphoria of Khan's supporters.
Immune vaali baat to ek dum sahi kahi hai inhone .. Repetition of events so much that CITIZENS DONT CARE ABOUT MUCH .
World doesn't care , even muslims whats happening in gaza and Ukraine..
گندے۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ آدمی عمران خان زندہ باد❤❤❤
بلکل ٹھیک لکھا "گندے آدمی عمران خان"
this man is a conspiracy theorist and he is also confused
Yay admi confuse hay
Why do you think that public is foolish and can be trapped by any politician or even by establishment just by propaganda and money. I can't buy this argument
The host seems totally naive.
Bhai democracy hai, awaam ki marzi, woh jisko bhi laaye, Atif Bhai ki kyun jal Rahi hai ager Awaam Imran Khan ko dhokebaaz nhi samajhti to😂😂
Well the way Imran Khan came into power and the way he ran the government
Nothing natural or right about it,
He was hand to hand with ISI and there is no difference between him and other politicians
Imran Khan introduced Facism and now he is suffering at the hands of the system that he himself made strong
@@yhz2K yes, there is no difference between someone who had the govt for 3.5 years and someone who ran Pakistan for 15 years. Yes, there is no difference between sharif and zardari who ran out of Pakistan and imran khan who choose to remain in Pakistan. Yes there is no difference between A corrupt Zardari and sharif and imran khan against whom you had to make a case of iddat. Theek hogya
@@yhz2K VS all the rest who did the exact opposite???? wah!
That fake accent😂
Once i heard from one of high court judge that when any member from our bench recite Hadith And ayat instead of constitution that time we all know that now he had nothing left to Charged ağainst that person
Thatshow your guest is saying that when judiciary is incompetent then Allah Ask etc bla bla🤣😂why not you ask who control Judiciary what 6 judges from ISLAMABAD High court write in a latter to Cjp about establishment..
He Atif himself is a confused person
Inshallah… Kaptaan will be back and make Pakistan riyasat e medina.
This young host knows nothing about politics.
14 year old contrarian mentality
What an stupid man. Offers nothing concrete or proper answers and everything is just speculation. I can bet he applied for tickets didn't get just like Hassan ayub.
Tind karanay se banda intellectual nahi ban jata he. Salla bakwas karwa lo inse.
Popular honay se banda aqalmand aur leader nahi ban jaata. Salla mulk chalwa lo inse
This man is Army stooge Now 😢😢..
Pakistan ka kya nuksaan hona shuru howa. ????