We make a pneumatic brake system for a Lada
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2022
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If you've ever wondered how a commercial vehicle air brake system works - well, here you go.
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Air brakes work the other way round, default state is brakes on under spring tension 'til pressure is up at a safe level, and the pneumatics pull the brakes open to allow drive, and when you press the pedal it releases the air from the pistons to put the brakes on making them snappy and effective, rather than having to wait for them to fill the pistons to apply brakes...
yeah i was disappointed what they did here its not the same at all
For the rear axle anyways but yes
Hmm, so those are spring brakes basically.
Attach a big generator to the engine, an electric motor to the rear wheel, link them together and make the world first eLada. Bonus: generator linked to the gearbox output.
I'm surprised you haven't put 4 brake pedals {one for each wheel}.. Too fun..
@@terasestHammasratas Mclaren f1 team had cars with 2 brake pedals, it happened about 25 years ago, look it up you would be surprised to see how they used it and that it worked.
Aren't they russian? I was worried that they would be sent to war, but I'm surprised to see them still here like nothing ever happened
Actually, air brakes (at least in the US) work the exact opposite compared to how you think. In a hydraulic system, if you lose hydraulics, you have no brakes. In an air system, complete loss of air pressure results in the brakes locking up. It is the ultimate fail safe. This is one of the reasons for using an engine/Jacobs brake, especially on descent. The more you use the brakes, the less air you have. If you press the pedal too many times before the compressor can refill the tank, you will lock the brakes. (engine braking is also for reducing brake use, thereby heat, avoiding brake fade/failure). In a hydraulic system, you do not have to wait for pressure to build back up, the brakes work no matter how many times you use them (assuming there are no leaks and you haven't overheated the system)
That's only for the parking brakes. Service brakes function the same as G54 made them
That's totally a Bill comment too that's crazy
@@SparxI0 right but if you lose service air your can springs have nothing to hold them.
I pray you guys are safe been watching for yrs been waiting for you to do air brakes as a truck driver 😊😊😁😁 awesome video brothers ❤
USE THE COMPRESSOR OF A FRIDGE IT`S MUSCH MORE QIUTE AND IS A FASTER FILL UP TIME... 220/110 JUST NEEDS AN INVERTER TO WORK... SEEN USED ON PAINT BOOTH COMPRESSORS...
Air systems use "relay valves" to help with faster air brake application. Rather than all the air having to go through the treadle valve to all the brake chambers, the treadle valve feeds the pilot on relay valves, needing far less air. Once the pilot of the valve is active, the relay valve will pass an appropriate amount of air at higher volume to match the pilot pressure.
Love how this channel has NO clickbait
This is awesome! From the home made “s-cam” to the hand made treadle valve built from a regulator! There is a lot into an air brake system and some of the smallest things can matter. The s cam head and the angle of the back of the s cam or the “slack adjuster” angle matters in relation to its push point. It looks like it’s over 90 degrees and that’s loosing force to the pads. That,air volume and actual brake chambers and this system might work. There’s hundreds of styles of air brakes out there to steel parts and ideas from,bendex is one in Canada and North American.
You should try now a "train system" for the brakes. When the air disapears from the circuit, it brakes.
That's how truck brakes work too,
I wish we had these ladas in the states, they look very simple to work on.
Well, instead we have greedy, worthless politicians that are sold out to the cash cow "gReEn EnErGy". So this or anything to make life easy and reasonable will never be allowed here because "tHeY aRe ToO dAnGeRoUs fOr ThE pLaNeT" or whatever bs reason they think of to keep people buying what sells their junk investments. Or else you're just a racist anti sCiEnCe conspiracy theorist.
Fit a semi truck transmission in a lada. Like a 12 or 18 speed
set up backwards from a commercial brake system .. the air on a commercial system disengages the brakes that are under spring tension all the time meaning no air = locked brakes so there is no need for the air to provide load tension to the brakes only the disengagement .... if this was done the same way the brakes would have worked much better
Hence the name fail safe
They wouldn’t have worked better. It just makes it safer if a failure occurred
They're not like that in the UK now only the parking brake is reverse actuated they have a second set or air lines for safety ruclips.net/video/YHyH48Lr7Ek/видео.html this explains it well
And maybe squash that pipe so it’s oval shaped then the brake’s clamp harder 😊
Well your close. Air releases the parking brake spring, which is there as a fail safe. Air is still used to apply brake pressure. Basically two separate air systems. These guys just skipped the park brake system all together, which has no effect on regular braking.
The hose looks about right, but bear in mind a commercial vehicle's compressed air system is engine driven to about 170psi (iirc) and has coolers and dryers integrated. The stroke of a brake chamber therefore, is a lot shorter, making them much faster acting. Try upgrading to that level and you should have no problem locking wheels up!
Meaning there is a separate vacuum pump for the brakes? There is no engine vacuum on a diesel.
@@refluxcatalyst7190 ... trucks don't use vacuum; they use compressed air from a belt driven pump on the engine. That is stored in a tank, some distance back and it's allowed to cool. It also has a drier system to get rid of water vapor before the tank.
garage 54 is a true oxymoron-like jumbo shrimp. Their ideas are fantastically complex and yet janky as hell at the same time 😂
Junkyard rube-golberg mechanisms.
Nice video as always, but what you can try for a pump, is an Car Aircon pump. Use an electric pressure switch to release the clutch on the aircon pump. So in other words, the engine will drive the pump via belt.. Love your vids, and also thank you for BMI Russian for your perfect Translation.
i think it'd be fun to put atv/utv tires on a lada next! i think it'd significantly improve offroad and snow performance
Replacing the twist bar with simple pair of brake cylinders per wheel would make it react a lot faster. I would put one cylinder on top and one on bottom to keep the brake shoes aligned.
Great work. I love watching you guys.
on trucks (and also on trains) the system is inversted : you keep the pressure at high levels to release the brakes and when you push on the pedal you release the pressure from the system so when there's no pressure in the system brakes are totaly locked (one of the truck i drive have a little leak on its air system so i have to wait until the pressure gauge reach at least 9 bars to be able to move)
These videos always makes me smile. Keep up the good work! :)
My grandfather used to have exactly the same Lada - VAZ 2101 Žiguli in the same colour. He bought it new in 1973 and kept it until 2008 when he was too old to drive. Not much comfortable, but very reliable car, with terrible handling. Its heating in winters was legendary though, it used to blow a hot air into your face within a minute even in cruel frost.
Only made to be cheap, reliable, and built to last.
Feed the air pressure release into the intake and see if it gives a boosting effect when accelerating after applying the brake.
Nice to learn how the principles of air brakes work
normal air brakes work the opposite the brakes default position is fully engaged then air holds the caliper open so if the air supply fails brakes lock on so the truck stops because its less dangerous to have brakes fail so they stay on rather than a truck that cant stop.
@@blitzyosrs2104 Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
@@blitzyosrs2104
You're describing the parking brake system. The brakes say on the front are still actuated solely by air.
It worked another successful demonstration
I love how fun this channel is. Just raw creativity, you guys rock and do it in your own way. So many youtubers are just copy paste clicker headlines.
You'll need a purge tank. An extra tank with a check valve. And of course another gauge
Put the compressor and tank in the trunk to help with the noise and a metal line from the compressor to the tank so it does not melt.
i would have used a AC compressor and two separate tanks one for the rear axle and second tank for the front wheels.
they installed them backwards air brakes should be in full apply at 0 pressure and released at 100-120 psi that way if they fail they are in full apply that's why we have to cage the brakes when they fail to tow it away
garden hoses for airlines and adjustable links between bar and pipe
I got a old Caterpillar 3500 in my shed, if I lived in Russia I'd sent it to them. I'd like to see if they could fit that into a Lada.
reason i think it takes a while for response is the discharge valve dumps all pressure meaning ur going from regulAR preasure to high pressure which takes a second
I would try a engine driven compressor and some thicker hoses. Maybe it can make a difference
they could use a belt driven AC compressor to coble things up.
needs a large reservoir tank to keep a constant pressure and maybe a smaller throw on the push bar to the brakes..
I would love to have Ladas like this in the US, used manual beaters. so fun
Backwards. Air cylinder should be releasing the breaks and a heavy spring applying the brakes. That way when you lose air pressure they brakes are applied.
That's only for the parking brakes. Service brakes function as they have it set up.
@@kc9489 True, there are two sides of the air system. Issue is if they lose air, they have no brakes. Simplicity would be having a parking brake style system for safety.
Lada is ultimate vehicle
They made lada brakes sounds like a Volvo truck hahaha..realy awesome
I love you guys!
Solid!
Top KEK!
Lightweight Lada, air brakes? My first thought, "Touch the brake and you're going to kiss the windscreen".
Can you try putting a gearbox working backwards. Ie 5 speeds in reverse and see what it’s like to drive. 😊
They already did, by mounting the differential wrong way around.
107 percent successful. Suggestion maybe use a diesel engine belt driven pump.
air brakes do work this way.... lack of air pressure applies the parking brake, service brakes use air pressure to apply the brakes
Not in the US. All commercial air brake systems need air pressure to disengage the brakes. It's a safety feature, in case the system loses pressure, the truck comes to a stop.
Same here in Europe, it's set up to fail safe. Although, his comment about keeping a watch on the air gauge(s) rings true: city driving or long downhills got the gauges dipping and a sweat on!
@@digitalchaos1980 we said the same thing pretty much, just everyone here seems to think the big spring is for the service brake, i wanted to clarify :)
@@brett0nline334 Ok, I gotcha, bud. No worries 😎
You guys could have used an air conditioner compressor for the air pump. The York 210A is a self lubricated twin cylinder compressor, very nice unit.
Bus Driver approved 👍.
I went "well someone upgraded their air ride"
How about using Aircon compressor to compress air?
That's cool!
Hello ! I like your channel a lot, and always wait for a new crazy chapters... 🤣🤣
A very nice experiment, but I wonder, why didn't you just use the hydraulic cylinder to pull the handbrake cable?... (-:
Cheers,
Noam.
Pretty sweet you guys are very well thought out in every video I see. If I want to see something interesting I always know where to visit. The only thing I would say “only matters in long term” but that love pushing the brake shoes is too short as the brakes wear down it will over center in the pads but wonderful way to display how they work
My car goes brap brap brap, and goes ting ting ting, cause Lada things, but it's brakes go PSSH PSSH. ~Moog (team evo lol)
This will be interesting 👏
Unfortunately there's only one size of thumbs up. 😅
But I wanna see a revisit to this project with instant-ultra-air-brakes. With way more pressure and maybe a valve close to each actuator, for instant action. 😁
I've always wondered if you can add pedal feel to an air brake system by using a cylinder to push back on the brake pedal. adjust cylinder size and placement on the pedal to tune the feel.
on a commercial truck you already have "pedal feel" because the operating valve is spring loaded and the air pressure is over 100 PSI.
@@rupe53 old Ferraris used air brakes too. I think it use exhaust gas to pressurize brakes
@@angelgjr1999 ... exhaust pressure will only be a few PSI. I have never seen that system, so I suspect it's similar to a vac booster on regular brakes, not a full air system.
Return the Lada to factory status, then put your inventive mind to work on building a pneumatic assist for the master cylinder similar to the traditional vacuum assist, but better.
You should inverse the pressure model.
That's where the 2nd gauge comes in
The thumbnail shows the front brake caliper while the video only focus on the rear brakes, its only the front brakes can gives you the perfect results
I thought commercial trucks worked the opposite, as in the air system keeps the brakes disengaged. When the brakes are applied the air is released. That way if the system fails, the brakes come on automatically.
Yes sir!!!
I always enjoy the music you guys put in your videos but you never list what music is being used may you start posting that what music you are using in your videos please thank you very much Garage 54
Why not use air over hydraulic???
like "Justin Steiger" said: put 4 brake pedals or handles like Fred Flintstone ... on the passenger side and do some rally cross on slippery surface like grass.
lol
This will restore air in reinforcement in a 50 PSI tank
Suggestion for next video Use an garage air compressor to speed up a car
On rear brakes you haw shoes not pads for the translator 👍
You could have mounted the ram horizontal with a lever.
Im curious, are pneumatic brakes more comfortable to the passenger than link one?
question..over the years...how many lada's have gone to the great beyond?
Hell yeah
Ready
Impressive
A friend of mine used suntanning oil as hydraulic fluid in a pinch.
Sure it was just for the cylinder of a barber's chair, but i wonder if it could work for anything else. Maybe tranny fluid or diff oil? It's actually kinda surprisingly viscous.
Move the cams to the top, so the tops expand.
Yea you definitely want the air to be keeping the pads apart until you begin to brake, letting heavy spring tension take over.
That would make the brakes weaker, don't you think? If the air can push back the springs, it is more powerful than the springs, so it will push on the pads with more power than springs would
It needs a bigger compressor maybe even one driven by the engine.
I have a feeling they ended up with air over hydraulics on the front. The pistons on the calipers wouldnt hold the air in, although it was stopped like...not a dime, but a hundred dolalr bill LOL.
My bus has air over hydro in the front and regular air in back. But, at least in the US, you cant do this without getting in some trouble, unless you have a CDL with air brake endorsement like a B or an A class.
CDL is only for vehicles over a certain weight. Cars would be exempt from that rule, although the air system wouldn't pass muster with DOT.
Why would the caliper pistons not hold air ? Assuming the calipers were fine originally and not leaking any fluid, there is no reason it wouldn't hold air. I'm not gonna start spitting out numbers because I'm not very familiar with Lada. I can say the hydraulic pressure in the average car far exceeds the air pressure they are using. If it will hold fluid, it will hold air.
@@Mike-qp8bv Im not 100 percent, but being water tight is easier than being air tight, isnt it? Im not sure of the top of my head either, but liquids has surface tension which is very hard to break, etc etc. Otherwise why dont modern trucks and buses use callipers, but instead use pots, just like in the reach, which mecanical linkakes and all that. (Im hoping it doent come off as snooty, legitimately trying to talk it out, since its an interesting question. Im not that versed with these conversions, and newer air brakes)
@@RipRoaringGarage I am thinking because it makes things much easier to drop a trailer and pick up another because the brakes don't need to be bled if the working fluid is air.
In a Commercial Vehicle, the Brake is constantly engaged by a spring. To release the Brakes, you put pressure on the system. So you are breaking if you let the air out of the system. That's why a truck makes an emergency brake if an Airline bursts. You guys build it the Wrong way ;)
That's only for the parking brakes. Service brakes function the same as G54 made them
@@SparxI0 its a bit complicated to explain. You have a dual-cylinder assembly with solid springs. Wich functions as the foot brake and the handbrake. If no air in the system, the handbrake is active. If you put air on the "federspeicher", you release the parking brake. Using the foot pedal, you are pumping a little air in the second chamber for braking.
So if you don't have air, you shouldn't be able to drive. That is a safety aspect in commercial vehicles.
how about connecting the brake lines to a power steering pump for pressure 😅👍🏼
you have to put that lada straight 6 cilinder engene in lada and dyno test it
your neumatic ram was a little weak. next time use proper brake boosters from a truck. they are by default deploying the brakes at maximum force. add air to the system to release the brake. when you press the brake pedal, it dumps air out of the system applying the brakes again. this is so if there is a failure with the air system, the truck will stop. believe me you dont want it the other way around 😅.
Makes ya think what if these guys get a draft letter.....
Surprised they still can get a Ladas they must be getting rare
Add extra airtank..mmm. would weight limt of car be ingreseased
I'd like to see you guys put a modern electric power steering system on that old car. You know. For fun lol
Try connect a CO2 welding tube with 200 bar instead of the small compressor... 🙂
you all never fail to come up whith some crazy but practice stuff ..keep it up it's another great video.and I was thinking .on a tractor trailer the compresser they have keeps air pretty dang up to were ya want it all the time but one problem that they have is when going down steep inclines they need to use breaks alot but sometimes the air can't keep up and they end up either dead or taking a runaway emergency off ramp to stop them . but I'd like to figure out away to create a backup break system like a separate tank whith pump on a lever to allow it to go thru system in a emergency ..what do you all think ..but back to the video I think ya deff need a couple tanks in the Lada or one bigger one to keep capacity of tank full at all time maybe one for back and front so ya can have a break shut off for back to do super mad burnouts lmao ..
Those backup brake systems already exist in the form of engine brakes and exhaust brakes.
next: make 2 clutch, forward & backward
You should let those lobes that push on the pads keep spinning and making something similar to abs
Make a car with 1 pedal like electric cars, release it for brakes and push it for acceleration.
(Maybe 2 pedals if manual)
why you not using brake valve.
if u not already done it, test to build a steamdriven engine? like a old loco...
Put rear brakes on the prop shaft!
Try it using the AC compressor
Could your team make a Lada jet boat, submarine or flying machine?
How about a working tank?
Use power steering pump to engage brakes.
Would it be possible to get an old BMP or BTR to play with for projects & experiments? Steam powered BMP? Electric Lada? Diesel Lada? Raced out BMP with high performance engine or dual engines (one in the troop compartment)? Lowered & chopped BTR rat rod? BTR drag race APC build? Kamov Ka-32 engine in a Lada? It is good you have access to a waterjet & machine tools.
Wow, is your Lada turboed? I hear the blowoff valve! Nah bro, it’s my unsafe custom brakes
have they done a steam powered lada yet?