@@kidumby7599You are confusing the issue. You shouldn’t *need* to play a bunch of counters for 1 particular card. Maxx C is format warping and shouldn’t be legal and having 3 ash 2 called by doesn’t fix the issue
Last card Kurikara or the token maker wouldve really done it, prob on Kurikara more bcs i dont know if the Wind-Water still has a negate or not. Sadge that they cant rip out either and had to content with Afterburner
"Do not play Ash Blossom, because its not a combo piece" As a gate Guardian player, I confirm this advice. This deck needs every ounce of consistency you can get.
I get a lot of credit in the video, but I barely did any of the actual deckbuilding this time around, I was in an FFXIV raid for most of it. Huge shouts out to Stove, Nas, Reduxk for their individual understandings of the AFD, Visas, and Gate Guardian Packages respectively, for making this deck all fit together. The midnight VC was a fucking blast though!!!
I've never actually looked at Dis Pater's art that closely, and now that I have I'm a little shocked they put something that demonically hideous on a Yugioh card.
The entire premise of dragon dogma/dogmatika is to become a dragon, the concept of dragon ascension are popular in many Japanese games, like sekiro or elden rings, it's tied to the Japanese or eastern folklores in general not just Japan even China, also p.u.n.k and tenyi have this dragonic ascension theme as well. Maximus turns into an abomination because he is trying to achieve that ascension through the suffering of other people, he achieve his goal but at the cost of his own sanity.
@@r3zaful you do realize that FromSoftware didn't invent the concept of becoming a dragon right? Also nobody in the Soulsborne games becomes a dragon (not counting Elden Ring or Demon's Souls since I haven't played those)
As Icejade's #1 stan, I will pay Joseph like 50 quid for a full video of him playing Icejade (The trick is that he cannot once mention Acti and/or Icejade rule 34)
You asked us for a list that played AFD, we had two whole hours. Of course we went gate guardian mode. Shout-out to reduxk and Nas, the remy's of our ratatouille for gate guardian mode.
I could see why, how would you summon all three pieces of Gate Guardian to XYZ Summon? this ain't Red-Eyes or Gaia, they do a better work Contact fusing
After 3 months of testing, the best variant of GG that I made was a Branded Bystial Predaplant that uses Keeper of Dragconic Magic as its root. I think in MD, BFusion is limited and Bystial might be hit as well. If so it probably doesn't work. But the idea is to reliably send the pieces to GY or put them on field. BF can send Sanga. Souls can send Kazejin. Deployment can summon any of them including Albaz or Cartesia. Cartesia can also go into Gran, which sends Sanga. Keeper can search any Fusion spell: Branded, Instant, Deployment; while also being able to Special a piece from the GY for the 2pc guardians. GG suffers from having any kind of interruption. But Combined offers amazing defensive capabilities, so I think GG is best paired with anything that puts interuption on board. Issue is that there is no room for handtraps, which MaxxC is a thing. Generally, I relied on S/T board breakers that could also be pitched by Souls if they weren't useful. But that only works in a best-of-3 scenario with a side deck.
Imagine what Defense Wall could do for the deck in Animation Chronicle 2024: -Search Sanga, Suijin or Kazijin. -Search Dark Element. -Protect Gate Guardian monsters from destruction & targeting. So many possibilities.
@@spicymemes7458 Don’t forget that one Earthbound Immortal monster that has an effect when destroyed by battle… And that every single Earthbound Immortal can’t be targeted for attacks. So you have to WILLINGLY CRASH IT into something else just to halve your opponent’s life.
My deck for this was actually to work the Invoked package into it. Given the variety of attributes in the deck you can flex into whichever second card on field you might need to cover the weakness of the Gates
The moment you mentioned Sam's Endymion Gate Guardian list I immediately went to look. What the hell was he cooking? I'll have to watch that video after this.
I am not playing Master Duel while MAXX C is legal. It just seems like such a "flowchart format". The game is too determinate around "Opening Combo", "Opening MAXX C", "drawing the out" or the "out to the out".
I don’t think I will ever get whiplash as bad as everytime MBT cuts to a decklist filled with the craziest nonsensical fuckshit I’ve ever seen in my life
I wouldn't mind something like an Solo Mode gate that has you use the Gate Guardian stuff. It seems really cute to use, but also not really there for Ladder.
thank you for adding polycule to my vocabulary I will only use this information for good (I have already anonymously sent all major world leaders invitations to join my YGO-themed gay polycule)
No shot the last guy's hand was specifically outed by specifically the Gate Guardian board. Like most other decks make boards that would've been taken out by the Raigeki.
i use 5 one ofs in my tearlament deck and summon combined basically every game I pop off. adds 5 interrupts, so I end with 22+ interactions and 18+ interrupts
this is the reason why gate guardian would be played with alle gate guardian mats on 3 1 banish and you are dead if you only have 1/2 copys of that in your deck-
Honestly i was a big maxx c defender at first, since i refuse to play any deck that isnt tier 95 or below (actual decks like icejades or solfachords not blue eyes or dm) and the only way i can compete is having 10 cards in my starting hand, but after getting maxx c'd countless times going second by an opponent that either has 52 negates or 84 towers in their field, i can now confidently say it suxx ass. I think the only way it can function as the going 2nd hand trap that it was supposed to be is to but a condition where you can only activate it if you control no cards and require a discard cost but prolly just the first one should work
@@aichisendou6375 Yeah, when I hear "broke the deck", I would think something extra and not slightly better than the 2 card combo. The P.U.N.K. engine can add Baron, a P.U.N.K. trap, and Secret Village
@@esoteric799011:56 is genuinely concerning, 4 cards spend in hand only for 3 mats apollousa, which can be disrupted at any point, and doesn't have a plan b on maxx c resolution.
This build makes you draw 3 cards (2 from souls, 1 from heart) while you burn through every field spell lineup via Ancient Fairy Dragon. The typical AHL scareclaw lines can give you Baronne and Apollo while the second Prisma mills the missing Guardian piece to get Water/Wind or Combined
@@babradthe chance of your drawing each 1 copy of maxx c and ash blossom is 33.78% if you ran 40 cards deck with 3 copies each. This deck doesn't have 1 card combo so there is a huge chance of you drawing ash, maxx c and called by the grave with no playable hand, because thid deck have no one card combo. Please think wisely, and consider why 90% of pendulum deck in master duel doesn't want to play maxx c, pendulum have hyper consistency and resilience but needs at least two cards to work. Gate guardian needs an extender that also act as interaction points aka negate magnet.
Here's the deck list for all the fellow Gate Guardian enjoyers. 2 magian souls 3 Maxx "C" 3 Diviner of the Herald Optional 3 Ash Blossom and Joyous Spring 2 Elemental HERO Prisma 2 Scareclaw Reichheart 3 Shadow Ghoul of the Labyrinth 2 Visas Starfrost 1 Sanga of the Thunder 2 Kazejin 2 Suijin 1 Illusion of Chaos 1 Reinforcement of the Army 2 E - Emergency Call 3 A Hero Lives 2 Scareclaw Arrival 3 Chicken Game 1 Primitive Planet Reichphobia 3 Labyrinth Wall Shadow 2 Called by the Grave Extra deck 1 Elder Entity N'tss 2 Vicious Astraloud 2 Gate Guardian of Wind and Water 1 Gate Guardian of Water and Thunder 1 Gate Guardians Combined 1 Herald of the Arc Light 1 Ancient Fairy Dragon 1 Baronne de Fleur 1 Scareclaw Light-Heart 1 I : P Masquerena 1 Cross Sheep 1 Knightmare Unicorn 1 Apollousa, Bowof the Goddess Also as a footnote instead of 3 Chicken Game, Elder Entity N'Tss, and double Vicious Astraloud I personally play 1 chicken game 1 Double Attack! Wind and Thunder!! (Ash would probably be better) 1 Primeval Planet Perlereino (because it's a field spell that gives your fusion monsters 500 atk putting gate guardian at over 4k and it searches Visas Starfrost) 1 Gate Guardian of Thunder and Wind (N'tss is an expensive UR and doesn't do much going first and this way I'm playing all the Gate Guardian fusions) 1 Borreload Savage Dragon (From play testing the 2nd Vicious Astraloud doesn't seem to matter so for situations where I have say, Visas Starfrost and any level 4 Borreload Savage dragon is nice because it's a 3k body that can both go higher and be a negate)
i thing its good gate guardin finally has the fusion it always should have had. they could still make an xyz monster, but make it a primary combo piece that is easy to go into with any of the bricks, but is potentially strong with all 3 attached.
You should try Gate Guardian with most of the punk engine instead. I usually end up with a better board but mainly because of punks and Chaos Ruler. Chaos Ruler is needed so you could dump the gate guardians and maybe get Shadow Ghoul or Heavy Tank
imagine wanting to go gate guardian mode and a tiny little bug told you NO
Lore wise, power comparable to Exodia. Folds to roach
Imagine being that one guy who lost and thinks this deck is busted... 😅
#BanMaxxC
Could have ended that sentence without mentioning the Earth insect and still had a point lol
Imagine playing Master Duel
Most relatable moment of this was Sky Striker opening 4 pieces of removal spells and a playstarter
In a 60 card deck on top of that...
Every fucking Sky Striker player. SS is the worst deck that has Yugioh protagonist luck.
Normal SS starting hand.
maybe I'm weird but that is why I hate SS and refuse to build it, it does so little and gets so much.
@@LilyApus same. It feels like the spoiled brat of decks.
this video alone lets you see exactly how fun maxx c is
In a better world there would be no roaches.
who knew the earth insect would be a total PITA if you're voluntarily not playing Ash
@@kidumby7599And called by, and crossout (+ your own maxx c), and psy-frame gamma, and herald of orange light if you play fairies, and...
@@kidumby7599You are confusing the issue. You shouldn’t *need* to play a bunch of counters for 1 particular card. Maxx C is format warping and shouldn’t be legal and having 3 ash 2 called by doesn’t fix the issue
Called by isn’t for maxx c tho its for ash
Man really just gatekept that entire last match. A truer guardian has never been seen.
I'm so glad Maxx "C" is keeping tier -1 meta threat Gate Guardian in check...
I’m not even 30 seconds in and Joseph has already stained my eyes with the sins of r34 Icejade.
What
Oh
Okay but like, acti though
As a member of the icejade community, I agree with mbt. Give us more acti
More like a feast for the eyes
That striker player having a near actually perfect hand almost sent me into hysterics. If only they had one more card
Last card Kurikara or the token maker wouldve really done it, prob on Kurikara more bcs i dont know if the Wind-Water still has a negate or not. Sadge that they cant rip out either and had to content with Afterburner
If he had Engage instead of Area Zero I would have freaked
@@aichisendou6375he still had 1 negate left on wind and water
Normal linking hayate was almost it
"Do not play Ash Blossom, because its not a combo piece"
As a gate Guardian player, I confirm this advice. This deck needs every ounce of consistency you can get.
Wtf was that 15-man Gate Guardian intervention with every deck builder in the community?
The testing circle is omnipresent
I get a lot of credit in the video, but I barely did any of the actual deckbuilding this time around, I was in an FFXIV raid for most of it. Huge shouts out to Stove, Nas, Reduxk for their individual understandings of the AFD, Visas, and Gate Guardian Packages respectively, for making this deck all fit together. The midnight VC was a fucking blast though!!!
I've never actually looked at Dis Pater's art that closely, and now that I have I'm a little shocked they put something that demonically hideous on a Yugioh card.
But remember, the universe will collapse on itself if we get Magi☆Magi Magician Gal with the pentagram.
Fun fact: Dis Pater was originally Dogmatika Maximus
The entire premise of dragon dogma/dogmatika is to become a dragon, the concept of dragon ascension are popular in many Japanese games, like sekiro or elden rings, it's tied to the Japanese or eastern folklores in general not just Japan even China, also p.u.n.k and tenyi have this dragonic ascension theme as well.
Maximus turns into an abomination because he is trying to achieve that ascension through the suffering of other people, he achieve his goal but at the cost of his own sanity.
You guys never play fromsoft games or what
@@r3zaful you do realize that FromSoftware didn't invent the concept of becoming a dragon right? Also nobody in the Soulsborne games becomes a dragon (not counting Elden Ring or Demon's Souls since I haven't played those)
This stream was literally just watching MBT become Hardleg.
The endpoint of all Joes
That sky striker hand was criminal, in a 60 card deck no less
Mbts friends: you don't want ash blossom
Maxx c: fuckin BET
MBT asked for a Gat Guardian list and got invited to the Yu-gi-oh War Criminal Club. Must have been life a United Nations meeting in there.
When Maxx "C" is more of a gate guardian rather than the Gate Guardian.... .😅😅😅😅😅
That last duel was the greatest thing ive ever seen on this channel
this deck would've been so good if gate guardian of water and thunder was a double monster negate instead of an atk reducer
As Icejade's #1 stan, I will pay Joseph like 50 quid for a full video of him playing Icejade
(The trick is that he cannot once mention Acti and/or Icejade rule 34)
Im aegering !!!!
You asked us for a list that played AFD, we had two whole hours. Of course we went gate guardian mode. Shout-out to reduxk and Nas, the remy's of our ratatouille for gate guardian mode.
"If we get Maxx C'd we die"
>Takes out Ash instead of Maxx C
Shoutout to the one person in chat that also pointed this out.
how gate guardian was never retrained into an xyz is beyond me
I could see why, how would you summon all three pieces of Gate Guardian to XYZ Summon? this ain't Red-Eyes or Gaia, they do a better work Contact fusing
This video is perfect evidence for why Maxx C needs to be fucking banned
I love maxx c so much that every time I see it I cry myself to sleep
6:55 Score one for the "please ban riseheart" team.
What he went through in this video is what I experienced whenever I try to play Evil Eye and run into a Turn 1 Kashtira board
After 3 months of testing, the best variant of GG that I made was a Branded Bystial Predaplant that uses Keeper of Dragconic Magic as its root.
I think in MD, BFusion is limited and Bystial might be hit as well. If so it probably doesn't work. But the idea is to reliably send the pieces to GY or put them on field. BF can send Sanga. Souls can send Kazejin. Deployment can summon any of them including Albaz or Cartesia. Cartesia can also go into Gran, which sends Sanga. Keeper can search any Fusion spell: Branded, Instant, Deployment; while also being able to Special a piece from the GY for the 2pc guardians.
GG suffers from having any kind of interruption. But Combined offers amazing defensive capabilities, so I think GG is best paired with anything that puts interuption on board.
Issue is that there is no room for handtraps, which MaxxC is a thing. Generally, I relied on S/T board breakers that could also be pitched by Souls if they weren't useful. But that only works in a best-of-3 scenario with a side deck.
Imagine what Defense Wall could do for the deck in Animation Chronicle 2024:
-Search Sanga, Suijin or Kazijin.
-Search Dark Element.
-Protect Gate Guardian monsters from destruction & targeting.
So many possibilities.
Dark Guardian being 3800 and can't be destroyed by battle reminds me Konami still takes the piss when it comes to card design
Armed Dragon Thunder: When this card has 4000 Atk, it can’t be destroyed by battle🤬 They can’t keep getting away with this
@@spicymemes7458 Don’t forget that one Earthbound Immortal monster that has an effect when destroyed by battle… And that every single Earthbound Immortal can’t be targeted for attacks. So you have to WILLINGLY CRASH IT into something else just to halve your opponent’s life.
wait, you're just speculating. I was excited for a moment.
@@nonamedpleb How do you think I feel? I'm still waiting if the set will even be announced?
3:00 Like all the great stories of the world, this one has proper foreshadowing.
What I've simply done is combine Kashtira with Gate Guardian. The cont. spell allows you to normal summon the gate guardian pieces xD
To quote a certain main with a hard leg, "Ban Maxx C"
He sounds like the modern day Don Quixote at this point
@@ryuuohdeltaplus7936 Frankly I'm with him, that card has no business in a best of 1
5:55 The roach! 11:58 look at the deck's strongest board vs average sky striker
My deck for this was actually to work the Invoked package into it. Given the variety of attributes in the deck you can flex into whichever second card on field you might need to cover the weakness of the Gates
2:40 That one anon is correct, that really is the round table of cooking.
Holy shit the edits are actual 100/10
8:57 Mfers in chat with 200 IQ: I CAN SEE THE LINES
0:38 very good Halo Grunt impression there
You ended on 9 fucking negates and striker forced out 5 of them. That's just impressive.
It really baffles me how Konomi didn't retrain the main Gate Guardian pieces.
I still thinks it cool they opted for making them continuous spells to semi reference the anime
Tbf i can see them as syhcros or even a link but people say xyz is kinda weird
"i fucking hate opening packs"
-Dzeeff has left the chat
The moment you mentioned Sam's Endymion Gate Guardian list I immediately went to look. What the hell was he cooking? I'll have to watch that video after this.
I am not playing Master Duel while MAXX C is legal. It just seems like such a "flowchart format". The game is too determinate around "Opening Combo", "Opening MAXX C", "drawing the out" or the "out to the out".
Master duel is the ocg and maxx c wont be banned
i have LITERALLY been waiting decades for this
so this is the deck that's being ''kept in check by maxx c''
Not specifically this, but specifically every deck
The real gatekeeper here was Maxx C
MORE, AGAIN, THE PEOPLE NEED MORE GATE GUARDIAN
Nice Luke von Karma style title.
And all this scareclaw / hero bs, just to say in the end "FOOOOOL, IT WAS GATE GUARDIAN ALL ALONG"
I don’t think I will ever get whiplash as bad as everytime MBT cuts to a decklist filled with the craziest nonsensical fuckshit I’ve ever seen in my life
"So I spent some time looking around for good gate guardian decks to play..." - turns out there are none
I absolutely love GG to death, but I'm glad you showed us all the painful terrible losses that come with it.
I wouldn't mind something like an Solo Mode gate that has you use the Gate Guardian stuff. It seems really cute to use, but also not really there for Ladder.
Rip MBT for still not clearing level 10 on the Proficiency Test
That end board was so solid😂
it's so fun seeing you frustrated like that. it would feel bad if it actually happened to me hahahahaha
this is was very nice
Man takes the "Try not to Maxx C" challenge in a game where 91% of its playerbase runs Maxx C
Alright now wears my masked beast retrains?
This is the most youtube-comboey deck of all the youtube combo decks I've ever seen.
...I wanna try it
The last time I used Gate Guardian, it was with "Zubaba Knight".
I'm glad you were able to inherit the spirit of the gate guardian
Joseph really does keep saying "Gay Guardian"
You could probably convince a new player this deck is good with just that last clip alone.
goddamn it Jules, including a discord ping sound is evil
thank you for adding polycule to my vocabulary I will only use this information for good (I have already anonymously sent all major world leaders invitations to join my YGO-themed gay polycule)
just wanna thank this video for proving exactly why the roach is good for MD. :)
He really gate guardianed all over em
The attack directly sky striker can’t attack directly because the field spell is a floodgate
the video title is fucking legendary
The actual maxx c challenge is going into a duel and your opponent doesnt have it
Oh my god I never looked closely at the art for Acti before and damn
I loved when mbt went gyatt guardian mode and gyatted all over that sky striker player
No shot the last guy's hand was specifically outed by specifically the Gate Guardian board. Like most other decks make boards that would've been taken out by the Raigeki.
i use 5 one ofs in my tearlament deck and summon combined basically every game I pop off. adds 5 interrupts, so I end with 22+ interactions and 18+ interrupts
>"I think I'm done going Gate Guardian mode"
Coward
That last game was kind of crazy
A all gas no breaks deck its beautiful.
yoooooooo when the gates are guardian
Oh yeah, Im aboutta Vicious Astra very loudly
Been seeing this deck and the visas,kash,tear, scarclaw, malladium clusterfuck of a deck all over ranked lately.
Me: holy shit, I already have all these cards.
this is the reason why gate guardian would be played with alle gate guardian mats on 3
1 banish and you are dead if you only have 1/2 copys of that in your deck-
Honestly i was a big maxx c defender at first, since i refuse to play any deck that isnt tier 95 or below (actual decks like icejades or solfachords not blue eyes or dm) and the only way i can compete is having 10 cards in my starting hand, but after getting maxx c'd countless times going second by an opponent that either has 52 negates or 84 towers in their field, i can now confidently say it suxx ass.
I think the only way it can function as the going 2nd hand trap that it was supposed to be is to but a condition where you can only activate it if you control no cards and require a discard cost but prolly just the first one should work
Master Duel, also known as the Maxx C Pad
"If we get Maxx C'd, we're just going to die."
Are you under the impression that there's an amount of card draw that can out-value Gate Guardian?
Another classic MBT banger. -me 14 min from now
when the gates are being guarded
Idk if you had plans to go gate guardian mode again but I would love to see another video with this deck
Huh? The pure build's end board is usually 3 mat Apolo + Wind and Water w/maybe Combined. What were those 15 people cooking?
MBT literally end with that exact pieces except with 4 mat Appo bcs of excess mats on field
@@aichisendou6375 Yeah, when I hear "broke the deck", I would think something extra and not slightly better than the 2 card combo.
The P.U.N.K. engine can add Baron, a P.U.N.K. trap, and Secret Village
@@esoteric799011:56 is genuinely concerning, 4 cards spend in hand only for 3 mats apollousa, which can be disrupted at any point, and doesn't have a plan b on maxx c resolution.
This build makes you draw 3 cards (2 from souls, 1 from heart) while you burn through every field spell lineup via Ancient Fairy Dragon. The typical AHL scareclaw lines can give you Baronne and Apollo while the second Prisma mills the missing Guardian piece to get Water/Wind or Combined
@@babradthe chance of your drawing each 1 copy of maxx c and ash blossom is 33.78% if you ran 40 cards deck with 3 copies each.
This deck doesn't have 1 card combo so there is a huge chance of you drawing ash, maxx c and called by the grave with no playable hand, because thid deck have no one card combo.
Please think wisely, and consider why 90% of pendulum deck in master duel doesn't want to play maxx c, pendulum have hyper consistency and resilience but needs at least two cards to work.
Gate guardian needs an extender that also act as interaction points aka negate magnet.
Thank god we have maxx c to keep broken, bullshit, special summon 1000 times times decks in check. Can we get a salute for our brave hero?
B-B-But muh maxx c it keeps combo decks in check 🤡
I ain't letting the name of the deck slide.
What a fucking title lmao
show this video to any Maxx C defender. see what happens.
Sky striker can’t attack because of the field spell LOL
Here's the deck list for all the fellow Gate Guardian enjoyers.
2 magian souls
3 Maxx "C"
3 Diviner of the Herald
Optional 3 Ash Blossom and Joyous Spring
2 Elemental HERO Prisma
2 Scareclaw Reichheart
3 Shadow Ghoul of the Labyrinth
2 Visas Starfrost
1 Sanga of the Thunder
2 Kazejin
2 Suijin
1 Illusion of Chaos
1 Reinforcement of the Army
2 E - Emergency Call
3 A Hero Lives
2 Scareclaw Arrival
3 Chicken Game
1 Primitive Planet Reichphobia
3 Labyrinth Wall Shadow
2 Called by the Grave
Extra deck
1 Elder Entity N'tss
2 Vicious Astraloud
2 Gate Guardian of Wind and Water
1 Gate Guardian of Water and Thunder
1 Gate Guardians Combined
1 Herald of the Arc Light
1 Ancient Fairy Dragon
1 Baronne de Fleur
1 Scareclaw Light-Heart
1 I : P Masquerena
1 Cross Sheep
1 Knightmare Unicorn
1 Apollousa, Bowof the Goddess
Also as a footnote instead of 3 Chicken Game, Elder Entity N'Tss, and double Vicious Astraloud I personally play
1 chicken game
1 Double Attack! Wind and Thunder!! (Ash would probably be better)
1 Primeval Planet Perlereino (because it's a field spell that gives your fusion monsters 500 atk putting gate guardian at over 4k and it searches Visas Starfrost)
1 Gate Guardian of Thunder and Wind (N'tss is an expensive UR and doesn't do much going first and this way I'm playing all the Gate Guardian fusions)
1 Borreload Savage Dragon (From play testing the 2nd Vicious Astraloud doesn't seem to matter so for situations where I have say, Visas Starfrost and any level 4 Borreload Savage dragon is nice because it's a 3k body that can both go higher and be a negate)
It better be good things about Icejades
Recently I've been cooking Gate Guardian Tearlements. I promise it works :)
STILL mad the re-train wasn't a XYZ monster. They could have made it work.
i thing its good gate guardin finally has the fusion it always should have had. they could still make an xyz monster, but make it a primary combo piece that is easy to go into with any of the bricks, but is potentially strong with all 3 attached.
Synchro makes more sense
You should try Gate Guardian with most of the punk engine instead. I usually end up with a better board but mainly because of punks and Chaos Ruler. Chaos Ruler is needed so you could dump the gate guardians and maybe get Shadow Ghoul or Heavy Tank
you can't just say this and not throw out the list somewhere
@@i55edeither punk engine or tearalaments engine, tear engine is far more lethal and consistent because they mill harder.