Netflix 3 Body Problem - Well Here We Go [CC]
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2024
- 00:52 - Basic Info on 3 Body
03:35 - Just As A Drama
08:00 - Adaptation vs Original Material
23:55 - Gentle but Not Really So Gentle Roast
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![A Super Comprehensive Final Review on Three Body Drama Version [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5i12P_52O_k/mqdefault.jpg)
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My question is how did they blow $20mil per episode when it's just people talking in a room?
20 mil by episode is more of an average price : a lot of the budget went in the video game sequences the music the CGI or the cost of having such a big team for such a big project
Just looking at some of the scenes that happens in the game I can definitely tell this was a high budget series
Embezzlement
@ugovillemalard4218
Yeah. Some of these actors probably demand a decent amount of money.
The game sequences would be expensive as would the Panama Canal sequence.
"Friends" with the backdrop of "we're all doomed.'" Hilariously accurate.
Her description makes me think of The Big Bang Theory. A show so denigrating to science and intellect it has measurably slowed human progress in general. They do nothing but talk bullshit and do no work then complain about not getting jerked off or whatever.
Indeed and exactly
Except Friends was well written
Can’t agree with you more. Rachel and Ross with Oxford degrees. So very annoy!
@@richlisola1 Yeah the dialogue is terrible in this show, and the changes from the book leave even more plot holes than the original series
All your points is why I don't watch American television anymore
Do i feel insulted? I mean, i guess, but at this point my expectations are so low for any Western depictions of Asia/Asian media that it rolled right over me. It’s far more rare for any Western media to actually respect its audience’s intelligence.
I really disliked the personal drama, it would have been okay to be in the background but trying to put it front and center was a major mistake. The events of the book really should be in the forefront.
Also Ye Wenjie got run over by Netflix. It's complicated to explain but the US can't make complicated women that have a negative side in the current climate.
Well said!
Most people think the Netflix version is good purely because the sci-fi concepts from the original work are inherently excellent, not because of the screenwriters' skills. Strip away those sci-fi ideas, and the show is nothing.
Facts. I was failing to see what made everyone think the series was so amazing besides the sci-fi stuff. I found all the drama stuff medicore at best and hard to sit through.
Agree completely
Ye Wenji husband did not disappear in this Netflix version, it is worse, her husband got turned into an asshole who stole her idea to get credit for the sun amplifier plan
would that not be an effort to protect her from the consequences if it wasn't well received? she was considered suspect.
@@ArbitraryConstant if he wants to protect her then he just need to tell her to not bring the idea up to the boss and he himself keep quiet about it, why even tell their boss about it if he was aware that the idea may harm him
Ye’s husband in the book, a graduate student in China in the 60s, student of one of the best physicists in the world, chief engineer of a state-of-the-art research institute, CANNOT DO PRIMARY SCHOOL MATHS in this drama!!! And Ye, a political prisoner, can order him and others around in the said research institute!!
@@ucnguyen6375 I got a somewhat similar sense as @ArbitraryConstant that portraying the idea as his was also meant to somewhat shield her. The issue is that this doesn't work for all audiences when the relationship between these two characters is stripped of any emotional intimacy.
@@shawnyang435 it’s wokeism that’s simultaneously sexist (because wokeism is corporate marketing). They turned a complex female character that is Ye Wenjie into an emotionally unstable scorned woman and did a character assassination on Yang Weining and also Ye Wejie’s character arc in order to have a Woman Strong moment
there is a scene in the chinese version, when the lady is younger, and they are in some 'youth camp' thing. their assigned task seems to be using powered saws and casually cut down huge, aged trees mercilessly. that scene is so loaded, leaves an impression,....conveys the pain of the dystopian existence. It is not true that the chinese/tencent version does not show the background of the cultural revolution. that scene in the forest is haunting. no words or explicit statements are needed.
To me, it's a shame that the struggle session scene didn't make it in. It is to me one of the most important pieces that ties the novel together as Ye Zhetai's fate is ultimately a reflection on what the ETO subjects the scientific community to in the present, disrupting their ideas as harmful and dissident while tearing them down while the victims struggle to comprehend the overwhelming force that is plotting their downfall. Ye Winjie's interpretation from the Cdrama is so perfect-- the Silent Spring scene nails the fact that after everything she's been through, she is a deeply traumatized and dissociated victim of the state, and when she is dragged into the Red Coast project, she has no clear motivation or any sort of future. She simply exists because she's had all meaning stripped from her.
She harbors an incredible guilt over her fate because she's doomed the world in a moment where the pain of her past created a hellish intrusive thought at one of the most important moments in human history. She's not a vengeful Lisan Al Gaib fresh off the sandworm kool-aid, she's deeply broken and writing the rules of her morality as she goes to try and justify what she did in a moment of weakness. And as a side note, I _love_ the technological authenticity of the Tencent version. The sets are so much more true to their time in that version featuring technology that would have _actually_ been present, or at least something approximate and fun for viewers.
Which one do you recommend I should watch? I cannot start to read the books because I'm so busy with school papers but series I can
@@vmoonchildtarot The audible audiobook version is great. That was my introduction.
If the original text doesn't work out I think fans are saying the Anniversary Edition is best but IMO the 30 episode one is fine.
@@anchorlightforge oh great!! Thank you
@@anchorlightforge actually, i did not read the novel! I am no longer reading sci-fi works, for various reasons. But I have seen the reviews and summaries of this series (basically, I looked up the plot). I am sure it is a great work. But I do not know all the details. I only watched the chinese language adaptation/drama. that too only 5-6 episodes. till they show that club and its members. that game world is very well made. I was happy when I found out that a novel written in the chinese language became a huge success. that is a new development in a world where most best sellers are in english. so, only a chinese language drama, set in china with mostly chinese cast will be the right tribute to Liu cixin's success. that said, he may have supported the netflix version because 1. it will reach a wider audience and 2. it will be free of the contrainsts of the chinese censorship and be able to show the angst and starkness of the cultural revolution era. but of course, netflix did not pay any kind of price to show the details of the era...they may even have gone overboard as it would serve the propaganda purposes of the west of our days. cixin probably frustrated by the muting of the 'revolution' background, in the chinese version, even if they got other things right
The most interesting part of this analysis is your discussion of how small the scope of the story has become compared to the grandiose dreams of the 60s.
Because unlike you and her, they were actually thinking across all three books. But let me guess, your idiot nature didn't let you see that. Oh, my bad!!!
I gave up on Netflix's _3 Body Problem_ after the first episode for many reasons (characters don't feel like scientists, complete disregard for the Chinese heart of the books, etc.), but mainly for what they did to Ye Wenjie. She was my favorite character from the books, and what the showrunners did to her was unforgivable. I've watched three episodes of the Tencent version, and it's working for me because I felt it was truer to the people and plot.
To answer your question at the end of the video: As a westerner, who has read the novels and seen the Tencent version, I personally think we have been insulted. I would have to agree with your analysis of the characters. The writing is atrocious and the characters are shallow and self absorbed and for the most part unrelateable. Overall with few exceptions feels adolescent and cheap. The depth of the the story is almost completely lost. I enjoyed your analysis and feel it was on point. You also managed to point out some redeeming characteristics I overlooked in my annoyance with Netflix version.
And they missed the Shooter and Farmer hypothesis. That was mind-blowing. It makes you question the human existence. The chinese version explained it so well.
that was so bizarre! I kept waiting for it to come but they just glossed over way too much
Such a bizarre omission. "Turkey scientist" is the kind of term that could explode into popularity to the point that it becomes a common term in English-language discussion. Such an easy idea to grasp, yet so powerful and ominous in implication.
@@anchorlightforgeit's really just David Hume's empiricist philosophy of science. You might have heard of the black swan argument/ the problem of induction
Yeah the Turkey metaphor was supposed to explain the real reason that most of the tormented committed suicide…however the fact they had 400yrs before the enemy arrives was hilarious to me about them worrying about the present, makes zero sense to worry about something happening in a future you’ll never see.
There is a lot of flawed ideas in the original, Netflix version is more mature in a sense that it skips over things that would jeoperdize the logics and also masking it with comedy.
The turkey stuff isn't something a scientist would kill themselves over. It is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific old idea like many other ideas from the original.
A Chinese woman must burn incense is such a glaring revelation of the lack of understanding not just the character of Ye Wenjie but also belittling the entire Chinese culture.
The burning incense scene does not bother me that much, except the detail that they burned 6 of them, 3 for each person. It does not make the plot worse, but still pretty weird
It's the classic representation of bias and racial profiling under the guise of diversity.
@@tjw2469
How is this a guise of diversity? The book is from a Chinese author.
@@requiemlul3140 What I’m trying to say isn't about where the author comes from or where the story's set, but how shows like what Netflix puts out handle the cultural stuff. When they throw in things like a Chinese character burning incense but miss the real meaning or context behind it, it kinda just ends up reinforcing stereotypes instead of showing us the real deal. That’s not what real diversity looks like. Real diversity is when you get the full picture of a culture, not just the cliché bits that everyone already thinks they know. So, by 'guise of diversity,' I mean slapping on some cultural references without truly understanding them or giving them depth, all while claiming to celebrate diversity. It’s about going beyond the surface and not just sticking to stereotypes.
@@requiemlul3140 Just in case you weren't aware, the scene with the burning incense never occurred in the original book.
The struggle session scene was not badly done, but other than that I thought that the Tencent version did a much better job in presented the horror of labour camps and "reformation". Wenjie really suffers in silence in the Chinese show - a brilliant scientist who is treated almost like a slave and almost led to her death. We don't feel even 10% of Wenjie's desolation, despair and physical suffering in the Netflix version - in the Chinese version, one can even feel the bone-piercing cold just by looking at the actress. Maybe the director for Tencent was better, or maybe the actress is simply superior.
Same goes for old Wenjie: she's a calm, noble lady who hides a will of steel and the resolution to go forward with it.
This is one of the most brutal roasts I’ve ever heard lol. Thank you for your honest opinions.
I find somewhat ironic that a common criticism to the books is that characters there don't have that much introspection or depth and only exist to move the plot forward... And then a show like this comes and kinda proves the book right by wasting precious screen time on the little daily dramas of the obnoxious "Oxford 5".
Not really a great fit for a series that should be about the "big ideas" and a vast time scale.
ya, i don't get why people focus so much on the characters.
I love the Books because of the SCIFI story, not because of the characters.
@@Black-Re4per
All sci-fi and fantasy novel/story come from the West tend to focus too much on characters development and get old and boring afterward especially Hollywood standard style of movie making with typical acting style. I believe that's the West mentality of individualism and self-important and human role as the center of the universe based on Western history. That is why Christianity and Catholic religion is so strong in the West because most individual cannot accept life end into dust and serve no big purpose at the end other than to procreate to perpetuate continuation of life.
@@tristanx3508 i think you are right on that one.
@@Black-Re4per It's very difficult to make a compelling TV show without strong characters.
The books series just invented characters as needed along the way. Live action television doesn't work like that.
@@hoos3014 but it works in the Tencent Version.
I liked the show, but one particular issue with the decision to transpose the story to the West sticks out to me.
In the book, we get a contrast between the brutal, anti-scientific cultural revolution scenes and the gentler, pro-scientific, modern China. In the Netflix show, we instead get a contrast between a savage, ignorant, old China with an enlightened, new, modern West. As far as the viewer is made aware, China may well be still just as cruel and ignorant as the 60s because it lacks the book's modern Chinese setting to suggest otherwise. The Netflix show (accidentally?) creates this new subtext of the superior West versus the primitive Chinese. That betrays both the story of the books, and also the author's own context given he is writing this reflective and frank story within modern China.
A lot of people coming fresh to this show assume that the Cultural Revolutionary scenes weren't in the books, and are then are surprised to learn that (contrary to their expectations) the Chinese allowed the book to contain such depictions, not censoring a plot element that paints Chinese history in a negative light. They assume that the negative Chinese portrayals are themselves an invention by Western Netflix, again depriving credit to the author and reinforcing another anti-Chinese stereotype to boot.
It's not accident, it's appealing anticommunism
But do you actually see China as gentler, pro-scientific, modern? I mean those are not exactly the first things that comes to mind. Im from central EU, which is quite far and who knows how it actually looks there - but first 3 things would be probably censorship, stealing of technology without ability to create its own and aggression against neighbors. Which i think they didnt touch in the series. Btw its classic terrible netflix thrash, lot of things make no sense and wokeness everywhere... But based on this video, i must read the books, im sure they will be quite good.
@@restoreleader Do yourself a favor and read the book.
@@nozero1 I definitely will - my only fear is that i will be constantly lost when it comes to names, its difficult to remember them...
@davidbowesuk Not personally, only some people around - and their experience was quite different. It was described more like 'fake gold' everywhere, no substance. Its also probable, that im quite biased
I didnt get past ep1. The dialog felt like a teenage high school drama. The tencent 30ep version was good enough i didnt want to poison my ideas with this seriea.
Yep, was an absolute slog to get through the poorly written drama parts.
I added both versions to my list, but was waiting for your review to decide which to watch. Really appreciate this!
So you agree with her every word like she is your soul's representation?
Check it out for yourself just check out the first episode and see how YOU like it.
Make sure to watch the anniversary edition of the tencent version instead of the original! They fixed things fans didn't like.
@@mistyk.1734 Note on this: You can tell the difference based on episode count. Original run is 30 episodes, Anniversary is 26 episodes.
@@nicoleraheem1195 when did I write that? The answer is: I did not.
In Tencent version they managed to make you care about every single character in the story. Everyone has a motivation that sometimes is conflictive eventhough they are going in the same direction yet they see the world with different perspectives, enough to make them enemies instead of allies. And I love that scientists in this series talk like scientists and see the world in scientific terms.. they are super nerds, obsessive with a compulsive behaviour and through the cop you see how they are also human beings with problems, complex lives so even the simpler character is esential to the story, like the series is telling you, everybody matters and plays a rol into the world. I love it and hope they get the Dark Forest by 2025 or 2026. Fingers crossed.
The bad:
1. Acting is mediocre, especially Auggie. She is there for eye candy only. She did not capture the full psychological torture of the countdown and the moral crisis of judgment day destruction. Both are very big themes in the whole story.
2. They made Ye Wenjie character one dimensional. I wouldn’t mind having more episodes if they can explore the character more.
3. They butchered a lot of concepts, like the hunter-farmer analogy and the different factions within ETO. They reduced the whole thing to a cult and did not explain why a lot of very smart people would be a part of this organization. The tencent version still falls short on this but at least it attempts to tackle this on.
4. The attempt to humanize the main characters are still quite shallow.
5. Da Shi was a major role in the story and “cracking the case” but the Netflix version reduced him to a comedic role.
The good:
1. Showing the cultural revolution. This was a huge part of YWJ’s life story that was butchered in the Tencent’s version.
2. Will’s character is very well acted and portrayed. I have so much more appreciation for his tragic life and sacrifice.
3. Cast diversity attempts to make it a global crisis, although I wish they would have them from different countries instead of all in the UK. Makes the world crisis a lot smaller. There’s really no reason for them all to be friends. You can connect them through a common crisis, which is a big theme in the book.
Overall, the best adaptation is somewhere between Tencent, Netflix, and line-by-line reenactment of the book. Somewhere around 15 episodes.😅
Original book and Tencent series also made it global...
@@ariblue400 Yea I'd argue the Tencent series is way more globalised that the Netflix version which is just a handful of people of different races but are all British in London.
In the Tencent version the international military leaders appear in almost every episode to discuss and execute their plans, we see events and tragedies from all over the world.
I would hardly call "cultural revolution" done by netflix as being a good thing, considering not only did they fail to show the correct betrayals, or the psychological repression she was subject to which lead to her being the way she was. They also got key details wrong, like getting it on outside etc. It's not accurate, it's not good. The only thing it did was be more bloody, which is totally unnecessary.
@@flysmaskI would say it is very accurate to the book, at least in dialogue; almost word for word. No one really knows what YWJ’s state of mind was bc the author doesn’t say so it is subject to interpretation.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHatI would have to agree to disagree. The foreigners in Tencent have shallow roles (except for Mike Evans) that appear a few seconds on screen and add nothing to the story. Ultimately, the whole thing is Chinese, which is fine bc it’s a Chinese story adopted from Chinese novels. But it lacks relatability to a global audience. Not saying Netflix did a great job at that but it’s slightly better.
News portals in my country rave about the series. People who haven't read the book cannot tell that the series is lacking. People who don't know much about Chinese culture beyond the Chinese takeaway shop at the corner don't understand the nuances and I think these are the type of viewers Netflix made this series for.
That's because film is a separate entity. Stop having assumptions about a book to film adaptation and just enjoy it or don't watch. We get it, The book is better, always is.
I disagree, as someone who just finished the first book, the series does a decent job of adapting the concepts and even some of the characters. You can have your opinion, but to call everyone who enjoys the show dumb or uneducated shows an extreme lack of media literacy
i liked the chinese version 3 body problem. The netflix version is just surfacely done. the western series in brief is basically, "who slept with whom?'. They forgot the core.
There are no sex scenes in the season.
@@menevetsny I watched it. i know there are no such scenes but why talk about relationship constantly in such immediate times. This is way out of original story. The main focus was just thrown away.
The 1st episode was painfully awkward to watch.. Vulgar words and vulgar scenes it's so weird
watching this is SOOO cathartic thank you :DD
Oh, and there is 26 eps version on Tencent. It's directors cut version
I am not a fan of the tencent one. So many unnecessary scenes all because they had to make 30 episodes
As someone who hasn't read the novels nor watched any adaptation, should I start with the Director's Cut? Thanks.
@@OdanUrr87 The Anniversary Edition is just the original 30 episode show with editing based on feedback and some tweaks to color grading, plus some uncensored smoking. It's probably the better choice if you insist on a TV adaptation, if you can't find it the 30 episode one will do.
I appreciate the Tencent version deeply but unfortunately it's not perfect. It's missing some very important scenes here and there, and for that reason my personal recommendation is either the original novel or the audiobook version.
The official Minecraft machinima adaptation is probably the most book accurate version of the story to date, and man that feels weird to type out.
@@anchorlightforgeThank you!
Ha e a great day AvenueX! Stunning as always!
White American here. Absolutely loved the books. Finished all three in quick succession. The Netflix adaptation definitely feels disrespectful to the source material though. There are small glimmers of a great show but man is it so watered down and rushed. I also could not stand the focus on the petty, unimportant character drama. But to be honest I never had high hopes after the GoT dumb and dumber duo were announced to be attached.
It’s very quickly becoming a hate watch for me. Also just to see how they tackle the big sci-fi set pieces. Although, like you mentioned, the CGi is so hit or miss so I’m not holding my breath.
The books will likely always be the best way to experience this story.
Quite a spot on review.
To be honest, Netflix’s 3 Body is not a bad drama but it gives a sense that the producers don’t really get what the books are about. The changing of the main setting from China to UK, though friendlier to viewers in the west, resulted in the Netflix’s version losing the “soul” of the original story.
The needs to be politically correct also affected the characters of the story and the relationship between the characters in the drama. The focus on “personal relationship” is a direct result of the changes made in characterization and location of the core events.
The comment on Ye Wenjie is spot on. The Tencent’s version did an excellent job in fleshing out the character and both actresses who played the younger and older roles of the character did a very good job in bringing the complexities of the character to life. The Netflix version’s interpretation of the role is too shallow and stereotypical.
The comment about the music is spot on. The Tencent’s version though limited by budget, have a more grandiose feel in scope than the Netflix version, all due to the quality of the score and musics and songs used in the drama.
Ye Wen Jie😢
The tencent version was cringe tgis is much better
I agree with most of this. I do question why the world can identify with the human stories in Hollywood, but international stories have to be race-swapped to white in order for American audiences to relate
@snowyy.5275
The same way that religious archtypes adapt to their host culture: Indian Buddah is Chinese in China, Israeli Jesus is European in Europe.
Brexit has made the uk a very bad place for international researchers. I don’t think Americans know much about it.
your contents just hit a next level with this video!! Good job!
All the bad writing and script choices can easily be explained by the guys in charge saying they changed things to make it more 'global' (i.e. more American) instead of staying faithful to the soul of the story.
Which is why it's as flavorless, artificial, shallow, and apathetic as everything else here in the US is.
I waited until the Netflix version to watch the Tencent version to compare them. I watched Netflix first and couldn't get over how c*ap it was. Seriously. Pointless. The characters hopelessly unbearably boring. I don't care about them or their problems. No atmosphere, no mystery. I don't have a single good word to say about this production.
I immediately watched the Tencent version and was shocked. Intriguing from the first episode, brilliantly done atmosphere of mystery, graduated tension, characters I care about and I shed more than one tear. Excellent drama.
Despite the name of my account, I am not Asian. I am Asia, a diminutive of my name. I am a white woman living in Europe. A scientist. The Netflix version made me disgusted, the Tencent version made me delighted. As a scientist, as a white woman and simply as a human being, I can empathize more with the problems and world of the version made by Tencent. This whole box ticking thing is absurd. What matters is good production quality, not superficial representation. And adding a gay man to a story just to be there is an insult to gay men.
They spent a lot of time sitting at the beach talking about having cancer
I was waiting for this, because I know you will give an objective review
I started watching the Netflix show when it showed up and couldn’t get past the first episode again, as an Indian i never liked western interpretation of anything foreign to them. Then I went and watched the Tencent version and I was hooked. Oh my God i have to read the books now, such a masterpiece
No way you like the ten cent one better they legit butchered ye Wenjie backstory, the pace of the story is so trash 30 episodes really? And they even had random pop culture references and a random Chinese comedian. The Netflix adaptation did it justice and even the author of the book gave the directors of the show his blessing to make the changes.
agree. same with me. but the different is that i already finished read the book trilogy, and watch the tencent version. for me, tencent's version is the best! it depicted the book visually, although there are part of the book that is not visualized. still, tencent's version is the best for me
Because Indians do such a good representation of foreign things...
I like how foreigners complain about westerners as if they are any better. You ever watched a SINGLE bollywood movie that features a white/foreign character, its literally racist stereotype. Meanwhile in the west, they actually depict foreigners beyond them being just foreigners.
@@AquaBlade564
Sure, usually portray negatively if cast foreginers in most Anglo-Saxon world movies. We're talking about the original novel took place in China with 90% Chinese, of course Netflix have no choice but to place at least 30% Asian actors yet somehow make them look seems useless majority of the time.
Not to mention countless Asian story, especially Japanese manga/anime live-action movie adaptation suddenly become a Western-center world and actors as a lead role 99% of the time.
Not delusional yourself in the moral and ethical nature of the West, especially based on history and factual modern everyday lives facing daily struggle against Western institutionalized biased, prejudice and racism causing countless bamboo ceiling.
13:00 - with regards to the societal & individual indifference to grandiose global events (e.g. impending Trisolaran invasion & inevitable human genocide 400 years from now), I would argue that this is one of the few areas in which the Netflix adaptation portrays the human reactions MORE accurately than the Tencent version. If one looks at the reaction to COVID & to long-term global crises such as climate change, indifference is precisely the type of reaction we see, particularly in rich western societies who aren't immediately impacted (or perceive themselves to be less impacted) by these types of global crises. In fact, if we benchmark the severity of the "Trisolaran crisis" relative to other real life crises (again, climate change comes to mind), it is arguably LESS urgent. After all, it's only a few top theoretical scientists who are directly impacted in the near-term. Human scientific progress is stymied, but that's not something the average citizen can noticeably comprehend. Moreover, the threat of invasion & genocide is 400 years away - WAY TOO FAR away for the average human attention span, especially considering the attitude of indifference people have to real life climate crises will severely impact human life FAR sooner than the Trisolaran invasion (~20-50 years).
In any case, while the Netflix adaptation is a clearly inferior telling of the Three Body Problem compared to its Tencent counterpart, in this particular regard, it more accurately reflects the human condition. Moreover, I would also argue that since this is a western adaptation, the attitude of indifference toward the prospect of long-term human extinction is an accurate reflection of the likely reaction in western society, which is more individualistic & short term-focused relative to eastern societies.
You bring up a good point because I had the same idea. I feel like this comes down to the perspective of being written from a chinese author rather than an american one. Asian cultures are collectivist societies that place higher value in the wellbeing of society as a whole. The whole is greater than the one. I understand why the author would be so optimistic that the world will come together.
For us westerners tho, we have seen the selfish behavior of so many people, so we are a lot more skeptical about this
I liked the TenCent version so much better. Felt like NetFlix was sprinting through the original story, while also throwing in their own ideas that don't fit into 3 Body. Never really cared about the characters, and the Judgement Day Scene looked comical to me.
The only thing missing from Netflix's 3 Body is young Ye Wenjie having a purple streak on her hair.
ruclips.net/video/A1IrRxoRkbQ/видео.html
I subscribe to Netflix an i felt the wonderful books were dumbed down. The lead character was made into a "cut out" and a lot of the best parts are gone, the depths of the books, the philosophical thoughts are absent. Yes the description of "Friends" as high level physicists who only care about sex lives etc was marvelous. It was a sad adaptation.
ur opinion makes me wonder if u even read the books. mmaybe the 1st one but the rest? your opinion doesnt really make sense if u have.
Have you even read the books? If you did and you’re still saying that they butchered the philosophy of the books you have an extreme lack of media literacy. Just because an adaptation isn’t a one to one version of the book doesn’t make it bad inherently 🙄
American here. Even so, I think your review is excellent. Actually I think Netflix is missing too much Chinese culture…and the authors metaphors regarding how small humans are…..like the ants.
Cannot agree more..dunno why so many positive review..too much of them put emphasis on the cultural revolution senses..but ye weijin story line not just about that sense..she have much more depth on that..and I very much agree with your opinion on her and when I noted her daughter father is actually Evans..I was like wtf..man come on…and no conflict between her and Evans totally unacceptable..cannot reflect the complexity of human being.. through and thinking will actually changed over time..
Thanks AvenueX for your review! I havent read the books but watched the Tencent version as it was airing last year (loved it) and I recently finished the Netflix version (which was extremely forgettable in my opinion). I'm not Chinese but I definitely felt the usual anti-China view that the West has about China in the Netflix version. Ye Wenjie leaves China and lives in the UK, Jin Cheng also does the same (to live in New Zealand), Da Shi says he's from Manchester. It's like no one wants to say they're Chinese unless it comes to talking about the brutality of the Cultural Revolution. Hence, none of the Chinese characters are good people. I've seen many reviews say that Ye Wenjie's story was fleshed out better in the Netflix version compared to the Tencent version and I'm like "how"? I'm sure those reviewers believe that showing that opening scene where her father was killed is the most important thing and that all other nuanced parts of her life are less relevant. I actually loved how the Tencent version showed her life at the Red Coast Base and at the village after she gave birth to Yang Dong. Other than that, I didn't find myself intellectually engaged while watching the Netflix version, but the Tencent version did blow my mind with all those concepts. I would suggest the Netflix version to people who want to see an interesting enough show where they don't need to think TOO much. I'd suggest the Tencent version to those who want to be intellectually challenged. I wish to read the books at some point too, which I'm sure is going to be brilliant.
I find myself totally reflected in this comment, nothing to add...
To many in the West it seems that only trauma and violence done to Chinese by by the government matters, and any show not focusing on that is "not realistic." It is pretty clear that the Tencent version is censored, but it conveys so much more of what happened even through that censorship than the Netflix version does.
The Netflix version lacks the philosophical depth of the Tencent version too. It just rushes through everything and doesn’t stop to reflect on anything- be it concepts, the nature of existence, or even characters. The music didn’t stand out to me either- whereas Chen Xueran composed a great soundtrack for the Tencent version which I still listen to more than a year later
As Jess Hong is from New Zealand, and to my ear very much sounds it - speaks fluent North Shore - I thought the backstory reveal in ep4 or so was making up for a prior omission or mistake. Like the director finally talked to the voice coach and asked why Jess's accent sounded strange. Ohhhh, we need to insert some exposition and some BS about a flood in Hubei to explain moving to New Zealand! Excellent! More problems: why then does an orphan from Hubei go to New Zealand in about 1995? It's just lazy and poorly thought through.
@@mxvega1097 totally - it’s like they had a random story for why she ended up in NZ 🤦🏻♀️. No idea what they were thinking
Thank you for being there in the past 7 yrs.
Yooo! You can criticize the series all you like, but don't come at Ramin Djawadi like that 😭. He did good with the theme. I actually like how it starts small with low piano notes, almost like sending a signal, then gradually gets louder. I feel like it managed to capture the sense of urgency and the intense feeling like something bad is about to happen. But there is also a tone of sadness to it. Not all theme songs have be big and grandiose like Game of Thrones to be impactful. And clearly the many people who want Netflix to bring back the uncut version to the opening credits feel the same. The theme also reminds to the one from Fringe, a great sci-fi series from 15 years ago. Maybe that's why I like it so much. Ok. I'll shut up now! 😂
Fringe was awesome
Felt like a small remix of the Westworld theme to me...
Ten Cent version is way better. The Netflix version is too rushed and lacks as much detail as the Ten Cent version. I like a Sci-Fi taking its time to explain the story.
I agree. I think that Netflix changed the major fundamentals of the books. I didn't have time to mind that they changed genders, split characters, talk about love, whatever, because I was annoyed at bigger things. Netflix Ye Wenjie was so flat but the book and Tencent version struggled so much with life and decisions. The first scene was a shock but didn't add enough to her struggles. Netflix changed the way the scientists died which is then a plot hole (why doesn't the sophon just kill everyone?). The Turkeys were a major part of explaining the basis of the science and that was left out. And I just got so annoyed at the flickering being visible to the naked eye. It's not science. This scifi book was so close to realism that it makes other scifi feel like fantasy. I have started to recommend that people watch the Netflix first scene and then immediately switch to Tencent. I found Tencent to be funny too.
Hopefully the Netflix version is an okay introduction into Chinese entertainment, but actually scifi fans should watch Tencent.
The erasure of Chinese and Asian men in white trash Hollywood media is NOT a small issue (if it was such a small issue, why do they continue to do it to this day, and only against Asian men?). This show and its creative talent need to be held accountable for their decision to dehumanize and erase Chinese people and culture from out own creations.
I am torn between finishing the show and letting it drop. As someone who watches a lot of TV, I can see how the Netflix show fits within standard US tropes and in that universe, it does okay, but clearly the concepts in the book are a bit too high brow and the show doesn't have enough time to breath. When the trailers for the show came out, I commented in one that, this being an US show, it would probably make it so everything Chinese was antagonistic, or the bad guys, and thus use a Chinese IP to make the Chinese the bad guys, and sadly, it seems very clearly that is what the show does.
The Chinese version series is the best adaptation.
I was writing something longer but as a white guy, I think the book did an amazing job with Ye Wenjie as a character making you understand why she slowly lost faith in humanity and to turn it to some weird rage/ naive belief thing is so odd. Evans a character we barely see using this as a way to eliminate humans to better the environment of this planet also completely lost. All the new/ repurposed characters I just felt lost by, it felt so much like we were just passing time with so many of these characters. I understand this want for a core cast of the show as a whole but it made this season feel so disjointed. In the book you understand why everything is happening in one country but it felt global, here it just just really felt small and it didn't feel global in any way. And just none of them felt like scientists or former graduate students to any degree what so ever. they said they want 4 seasons, I've only read the first two books, but I don't know how with these added characters they could even do that book justice.
I couldn’t wait to hear this.
What was so frustrating is the fact that the countdown meant nothing.
Guess you're not a truly sci-fi fan as you completely forgot "We control the horizontal and the vertical... we control all that you see and hear."
As someone who haven’t read the book or watched the tencent version yet, I enjoyed it a lot. I binged it in one day. At least it’s better than most of Netflix’s produced series. I do agree about the lack of sci-fi part.
It is nothing like the books, and it is veiled racism
Imo the Netflix one was better than the tencent version. Tencent three body problem was dragging it with their 30 episodes.
It has the same problem as the later seasons of game of thrones: they speed past all the important stuff only to slam the brakes and just stand around for twenty minutes
I have just finished reading the third book in the trilogy and I'm now ready to read reviews of the books and the NetFlix series. I have also seen the 30 episode Tencent version on You Tube. I liked your review and agreed with pretty much all of it. The character of Ye Winjie is done so much better in the Chinese drama. She is always a sympathetic character, even when she makes a rash decision with far reaching consequences. Even without the opening struggle session scene we understand what she's been through.
I liked the way that the character of Da Shi was done in the Chinese drama. He is a little like a Chinese Lieutenant Columbo, always being underestimated until the end when we see that he was smarter than anyone gave him credit for.
I liked the way the computer game element was done in the Chinese version. The VR gear looked like something we could buy in a few years, and the participants in the game did have to buy it. The game was created by humans, not TriSolarans. No magic alien technology, which the Trisolarans would never give us.
I liked how all the science was explained. I liked how the universe blinking was only background radiation, which you'd need to be a scientist with special equipment to see. I like that it was visible to orbiting satellites, unlike the flicker of the night sky which everyone on Earth could see and satellites could not.
The Chinese version assumes that we are intelligent enough to care about these things.
Yep, what they did to Ye Wenjie's character was an unnecessary sacrilege. I was utterly disgusted.
And giving Ye's daughter a different father? Why? What good does it do for the show? Is is disrespectful to the original novel? Of course it is
Saying Ye Wenje was made into a one dimensional character reveals an extreme lack of media literacy on your part. You do realize subtext is a thing, right?
I did not understand the meteroid bullet gun in space scene in the second book , why was the scene in the book?
the shooter wants to make it look like an accident so the bullet is made of metal from meteoroids so when investigate, people will think it is just some stray space rock
This is the last bastion of sense on the internet, I don't get how people are saying this is better than the Tencent show lmao
Also, I laughed at your scoff in the very first sentence of the intro 🤣
Will Tencent be covering the later books? How was the original series received in the Chinese market ?
Yes, Tencent will adapt the remaining books, but only in 2025.
60 mio RMB = ~ 8.4 mio USD, right?
Diving this by 30 would mean that each Netflix episode is 70 times more expensive than each Tencent episode.
That’s absolutely insane.
Currency exchange doesn't tell you anything. All Asian countries manipulate their currency exchange values to make their exports cheaper. Depending on the economist you ask, the true value of the RMB is closer to anywhere from 4 to 1 USD to 6 to 1 USD.
LOLS…grow a brain..
Soft lies😂😂@@zeitgeistx5239
Because the average salary in China is also much lower than in the United States
@@listenluo2333 That does not explain the discrepancy away. “The Per capita income of the United States is 6.41 and 3.45 times higher than that of China in nominal and PPP terms, respectively.” So there is still a ratio of 11-20 times per episode even when taking that into account for the full budget (And not all costs are labour)
I enjoyed it 😅
I couldn’t finish the tencent one… it felt unnecessary long/slow in some episodes. Although the Netflix one is too compressed (hope this will be better in the next season) I had fun watching
There's a new anniversary edition of the tencent one that's four episodes shorter and is supposed to fix some of the slowness, at least from what I've seen from other fans.
Yeah, some people have the attention span of a 2yo...
As a Chinese who watched 3 body ,I felt deeply insulted and offended that I deleted Netflix after watching the show. There is just too much I can say about how distrubing the show is to me, but you've done a great job doing that. I am sick and tired watching almost entire Western youtubers praised for how well this adaptation is. Thank you for speaking out.
They were paid, don't worry...
And there are the defenders of the show who claim that any Chinese person who dares to raise issues with this show is a "CCP shrill" 🙄 I'm glad AvenueX is here to give us a voice.
Based on these comments I expected her review would be that of a CCP shill. However, I found myself agreeing with a lot of it while still enjoying the show. Good work.
You must have a crystal clear heart😂
Good.
i 100% agree with your criticisms. appreciated this review cause all i'd seen were nothing but glowing reviews despite all the glaring flaws. tencent's version has its own issues but i enjoyed that way more as a sci-fi series.
Cixin Liu was a consultant of the Netflix version. He did not pan it.
To quote him " The Netflix's Body Problem is for audiences around the world. Most of it's characters may no longer be Chinese which may not be easy for Chinese audiences to accept."
The author's strength was not character development in his books
Netflix fans needed this.
Both versions are great in their own way.
As a fan of many Chinese dramas, I do feel the Tencent version was too long and could have been condensed a bit. I still liked it. I liked the Netflix one too. Cixin Liu's novel series is still the best Sci fi story out there.
Guo JingMing makes his own adaptation of his own novels 😂
Cixin Liu also wants to make money, and he didn't write it for a Western audience, and I think he feels as most authors do, the producers are going to butcher your work anyway, he also assisted on the Tencent version, so he gave his best for Chinese audience, for whom it was intended.
For what it's worth, Tencent just released an "anniversary version" of the show last week. It's been trimmed down to 26 episodes, so it's a little shorter now. But I doubt it would make much difference for fans that thought the show was way too long.
@@KeiPalace Why imagine a whole fanfiction on his motivations for giving the show his blessing, when you can simply just read and accept his statement. You don't know him at all, so your psychoanalysis just reads as peculiar.
@gofro7014 western fans or Chinese fans? Chinese fans still think tencent version is the better one. What they lack is invest to make cgi
What is the significance behind having "blossom" in every show title recently? The Story of Hua Zhi has just announced the English title as "Blossom in Adversity" now. Which is part of the English title of two other Cdramas right now.
All I could think about when I heard Netflix got their hands on this is "how badly can they mess this up."
Best/most accurate review I've seen.
So I just finished episode 19 of Tencent and my retrospective annoyance with the US version reached the point where I sought out a comparison for some sort of catharsis. The review really hit the spot, several spots. Broader analysis of why, was interesting too, and troubling.
I look forward to watching your review when I've finished the og series.
Ohhhh have so been waiting for this "reduced to a mild itch" epic
Saludos desde 🇻🇪 hace unos meses que veo sus videos, usted analiza muy bien los dramas, desde todos los puntos de vista
La verdad siempre que hace alguna mención a América (US) siempre tiene cierto aire despectivo 😕😕😕 como que se deja llevar por su espíritu Chino 🙂 de negatividad contra US. Mucha emoción 😅
I haven't watched it yet, thanks for thanks for the heads up.
It's worth noting that Liu Cixin was a Consulting Producer for the Netflix version.
This show really made me want to read the books. I'm glad you say the detective is very similar to the book character, I enjoyed his portrayal very much!
Thank you, AvenueX, for such a thorough and insightful review! It's really great to see your perspective on an American adaptation of a Chinese IP, which is something you don't see very often.
It was as though Eiza González/Aggie's contract said she had to look like a 'starlet' in every scene. First time I've seen sexy underwear and vomit together like that.
Avenue, may you make a video about the drama called "There Will Be Ample Time" ? ❤
I enjoyed it, but even without having read the novels I could tell it had been incredibly watered down for a Western audience and it kind of felt at times like I wanted to yell at the screen for them to get back to the plot rather than waffling on about who wanted to sleep with who. Very much agreed on the music, I have no idea what they were thinking, it's just so utterly forgettable. Also, I can suspend my disbelief and enjoy the ideas of alien races, multiple dimensions and super advanced technology, but being able to see that many stars from Oxford is just pushing it too far, haha.
Yes, this Netflix adaptation has its problems. The things you mentioned about questionable CG quality, narrowness in scope, shrinkage of YWJ characterization, etc, these are completely valid.
However, I don't think this version is without its merits as some people seem to believe. I think the way they pulled Book 2 and 3 main characters into the first season and weaved them into the story is actually quite smart, and quite necessary. I especially liked what they wrote for Will (Yun Tianming) and Jin (Cheng Xin) this season. This change nicely sets up the events of Deaths End, and even drops foreshadowing for the very end of the story (universe). Plus, they turned Yun Tianming who was kind of an archetypical "simp" character into someone who is more relatable and likable, a big win IMO.
Many people in the comments claim that the Tencent version is superior, and I just can't find a way to agree. Yes, the TC version is more faithful to the book... but it has massive problems of its own. The pacing is much too slow, some of the characters and events that worked in a book do not add value when taking up screentime. Not to mention they added some of their own stuff that wasn't in the books as well, with no good reason.
I think the perfect adaptation would be a "blend" of these two versions.
Good to know!
I think a big part of the problem is that book purists dont understand that 1:1 adaptions from book to show/movie cannot be done. Or rather, you could do so, its just that the result is unwatchable.
So anytime an adaption is "unfaithful" to the source its immediately bad. Even when the adaption keeps the core of the story, the important things intact.
There are very good explanations for most of the differences im aware of. Moving most of the story and characters away from china was important because western audiences are really not going to grasp the implications of the things being done in China, and may even think the show is trying to anti-Chinese propaganda.
The biggest flaw i think is in changing characterization. Some characters seem to have suffered a character assassination.
best review i have seen so far about the netflix version!
I'm on episode 6 and am enjoying it so far...but was curious about your thoughts (as my go-to Chinese drama reviewer!). I had a sense it would either be changed or watered down but haven't read the books yet. Thank you for sharing, I'd be sure to watch the original and see how it fares with the Netflix one.
Edit - I agree, it's somewhat lacking. Started off great but it feels watered down. The plot and characters are just far too weak.
It's great to catch up with one of your reviews again. I wonder what you made of the Tatiana character? I haven't read the books yet so I don't know who she corellates with in the literary work. But I love an implacable enforcer antagonist and she really delivered on that for me.
I haven't watched the Netflix version but have been reading about it, and as far as I've seen, there isn't really a single character she's based on... Maybe a mixture of parts of two or three characters, though.
Yessss! Finally! In reddit everyone was praising this thing to the moon and a lot of them were saying how boring the chinese version is and that the netflix one is better... I almost had a stroke reading those comments 😂 I was very dissapointed not surprised tho. This level of trashy adapt. was expected from netflix...
The characters swear way too much. Am I supposed to believe these Oxford alumni have a vocabulary similar to mine in a particularly shitty League of Legends game where my teammates are inting me? Every time I hear "fuck" I feel a little urge to cry. On another note, for how much they try to make the story more personal, I don't care about any of the characters, they have no personality.
The series is probably ending on my do-not-finish list, as I'm pretty sure they're just sprinting through book 2 and 3 content the way they did with book 1 (why is teacher Ye pushing the button in episode 2?). If I want to read a summary of Three-Body I'm going on RUclips, at least the recaps don't cost 200 million dollars (and my Netflix subscription). It's not as insulting as Rings of Power, which is the reason I even have a do-not-finish list, but it's just as soulless. The roast videos it spawned are top-notch though, do try to check it out, it's a good example of how most people in Hollywood has no idea what a strong female character is.
Speaking as someone who's friends are predominantly Oxford Alumni, yes they do swear a lot.
@@nozero1Oh they do? I stand corrected.
Well said, thanks! I haven't finished the Netflix series yet, and not sure if I will. If I wasn't already a subscriber, I probably wouldn't have signed up just to see this. My time on Netflix would be better spent rewatching 'The Untamed'.
I tried so hard to like the netflix version. I dropped the last episode. Still contemplating if I should just watch it. I just felt it lacked the many philisophical concepts and themes underlining the story. The ideas discussed in the story are supposed to blow your mind more than the visuals. The universe blinking didn't even have much impact to me. I was expecting goosebumps but it really just felt like a scene in any impending doom in a disaster movie except it didn't have much impact on me.
Or maybe I had such high expectations.
love the suggested adaptation idea
there was also a movie version but it got banned since the guy that banned is a fan of the book. it must be really bad.
希望TX暗黑森林有更多资金之后加油吧，其实NF版有很多可取之处，不要太执着于忠实原著式的流水账+注水，适当改编得更像个独立的电视作品，观赏性强也值得重复观看，现在TX即使缩到26集也真的是水，价值主要体现在把名场面剪成短视频值得反复欣赏，坐着再看一遍真的一点乐趣没有。
另外TX还要改的是这帮外国演员，黑暗森林有更高的外国人比例，现在这些“将军”跟林永健坐在一起就是一帮保安开会，这种外国路人自己拍个学生作品没问题，但是跟一帮本地老戏骨在一起就出大问题了，这次网飞找到国内班底拍中国的戏份是很加分的，起码没有以前随便找的华裔说broken中文那种出戏感，修改1的一些低级错误后，黑暗森林2资金要能+5-10倍就稳了。
netflix的改编国内很多人不喜欢，但这种降低观看门槛，叙事流畅真的值得肯定，
但从格局来说真的把原著的10分降到5-6分左右，所有名场面都像过家家，以这种成本来说太不应该。
改编虽然是可以接受的，但是有些“改”是彻底扭曲了作者原意，他们嘲讽TX阉割文革，但没发现伊文斯在西方的经历全删光了，物种共产主义全删光了。现在就是一对男女邪教头子，收到的创伤主要来自老共的政治迫害和环境破坏。如此以来他们召唤外星人的动机就不足了，有仇报仇有怨报怨你找老共去啊，拉着全人类垫背干嘛，重点是伊文斯自己的童年创伤，造成他走上了更极端道路带领的降临派，而不仅仅是叶文洁的“蛊惑”，如果说TX砍了文革的手指头，网飞直接把资本主义批判的头给砍了
另外潘韩和伊文斯的背景有相似之处，极端环保恐怖主义是不敢碰的话题
往极端点揣测编剧，就是以“改编”的名义做掩护，其实背后删减的逻辑包括60%的荧幕改编+40%的sensorship
除此之外，整体改编虽然降低了格局像过家家，但叙事是流畅自洽的，虽然你可以不喜欢ZZZQ不喜欢dumb down，但给没看过书的观众看个乐呵完全够了，为了看名场面说不定重复观看的负担也不大，但特效真像被贪了🤣
The cultural revolution scenes were very accurate to the American version of the book. However I understand the Chinese version of the book is different.
Interesting fact, in the English version of the three-body problem the cultural revolution scenes are at the very beginning of the book. I understand that's not the case in the Chinese version, however the translator worked very closely with the author so I can't say that it's wrong.
And of course all the nuances of the events are going to be totally lost on Western audiences. So it really was accurate enough to what the book portrayed.
Masterful review!
I'm now watching the first two reviews and have shared the whole package to Facebook, so
Thank you !
PS. The picture for this video is so cool; triple glasses.
Im sorry - you may have mostly negative opinion of the Netflix series but at least it got my attention. I tried watching the Chinese version and oh my gosh for me it was tooooo painfully slooooow. I cannot sit through it - sorry. Prolly better just to read the books.
if you thought the series was slow you might not enjoy the books which can be equally as slow sometimes
@@teehee2535 the difference is the books are slow but interesting, the tencent version is slow and boring
@@dilwitchspahlin4761I found it really enjoyable to eatch after the first few episodes. I feel like it got the right amount of drama and philosophy. But the scientific explanations did drag and could've been presented in a more interesting way.
Thanks! Shared.
Shows adapted from books should just be considered as ‘inspired by’. They obviously have to take some creative liberties to fit the medium. Also, it’s hard to compare the two adaptions when one is 30 episodes and the other is only 8 episodes. The Netflix series is not perfect, but I appreciate it’s combination of high budget with high concept sci-fi ideas. These kinds of shows don’t come around often. I can see them tightening some of the screws for a more polished season 2.
It's there an announcement for season 2?
i know right, of course tencent 30 episodes will flush out more of the characters. i heard that they have that much episodes but didn't touch the cultural revolution which i heard is an integral part of the story. i guess it's also considered political correctness.
Very on point!
Political correctness in America is all about optics, not about genuine care for representation of non-mainstream groups
The most compelling evidence of god I've seen is that I was exposed to and watched the Chinese show and read the books mere days before the release on Netflix, which could have easily been my first (and then last) exposure to the series. Thank you, universe.
Yu Hewei might not have looked as the book described Shi but he definitely made Shi come alive. I thought Benedict didn’t stand out as much. Shi had such a presence in the tencent version. Fav character from that version.
Randomly stumbled upon your video today about The Three-body Problem TV series. Amazing explanations about the problems within this anticipated Sci-fi show. Thumbs Up and Subscribed！ 听了你的讲解后我觉得Netflix版也不用看了，还是看看书得了。这么好的书拍出来确实是不可能的事。
Netflix just ruined Ye wenjie😫She's my favorite character in the book along with Cheng Xin.(in a same and different way, they all fuck everyone up to Oblivoun)
I don’t understand why they break up the one character into many and change their gender. 😂 and I agree with you. Ye Wenji in this drama is portrayed like a lunatic
Great review and I could not agree more! Is there a tanslated version of the Chinese series?
No. Only subtitles so far.
The westernized adaptation you translate quoted was absolutely hilarious hahahahahahahaha