To me I always feel that Balenciaga (at least the way they communicate) got that sense of looking down on others, so you can feel high above & edgy. You're part of the inside joke, but the biggest joke is buying to that ideal to me.
Well, i lived during the 90s, i was into fashion, and art, architecture, etc. The thing is, fashion was about creating beauty, within the world of design and fabrics, thats why people like Valentino, Ungaro or Galliano was so apreciated, but then, the owners of this fashion brands realized that fashion was similar to Art, it had an specific audience, and that meant that they only could sell high priced items to that audience, so to get wider they knew they had to mix their product with the vibe of the times, the emerging of the street and the low street culture into pop culture, a symbol of that was the bag that Demna presented for his 1st collection for Balenciaga, the striped Bazar shopping bag, wich is nothing but a leather version of the Bolsa para la Feria that we use here in latin america to go shop the food of the week in the street ferias, only that we buy those for 1 dollar. Today its not anymore about quality or brilliant design and reach a level of beauty, its about the vibe, the idea atached to the garment, the message of the clothes, the logo, and the group that it represents. To me, what got lost, was the idea to create something Beautiful, to get the attention of people through creating beauty.
Resources is a big factor for the decision for a lot of these designers. Virgil had spoken about that before, and also through helping Tyler with Le Fleur’s perfumes/trunks. Designers like going to the established houses because of the sheer resources they have present to do whatever they would like to with it. Demna working with Mercedes F-1 for the futuristic couture glasses and masks would probably not be a possibility if he stayed with VETEMENTS with Guram. He wouldn’t be able to stop and rent out the NYC Stock Exchange. The houses give designers the tools to make their desires possible and grow their networks whilst making a metric shit-ton of profit off their backs.
And to the factor of social values, Demna utilizes lots of the imagery that he was surrounded by growing up, being from a similar area I see the references to the culture in his work. Demna was a child of war, and that show was considering being cancelled due to the war in Ukraine, the trash bags, towels and cheap department store plastic sunglasses were what was available as he had to flee his country’s war. He works heavily with the WFP and up-cycles lots of old pieces for sustainability. As for working with celebs I don’t think that exactly is in his power rather the marketing. Demna worked on Yeezy Season 1 with Ye so he has a mentor relationship there. Kanye set up and stylized lots of what Kim’s association with the brand is. Of course there is a lot that he does wrong or is signaling if anything but compared to most of the fashion landscape of today Demna really is ahead in the aspect of social values, in my opinion.
This is true and the only reason I could really think of. However, in Demna's case he just left the brand he built behind for more resources? I don't think a lack of resources is a bad thing, it means you need to be more creative. I think Demna has definitely still utilised the resources he's been given at Balenciaga to the max, the venues are always amazing but that doesn't mean he didn't have to sacrifice vetements in the process. I'm glad he at least didn't try to run two brands at once. I think I would also just need to know more about the costs and logistics behind these brands to properly understand his motivations.
@@fashionlover4 I agree but don’t think he sacrificed the brand, the tried to do both for a while and that’s when it truly suffered, the collections from when he ran both brands were not very good, he let his brother Guram take the helm, and Guram has somewhat continued the same design language. A lot of the themes and characteristics are shared and they both consult on the designs. Balenciaga let Demna change everything resource vise, down to how the retail stores are brutalist deconstructions, and sustainable in that old (previously trashed) clothes were used to make furniture or decor. I don’t think he could have achieved the same level of success with VETEMENTS if he did the same work for at least another 20-30 years. The resources from a house like Kering are just too great, too many stores, artisans and all. Demna’s spirits and designs are still going on with both brands (down to the Gvasalias Simpsons shirt they did following the Simpsons X Balenciaga collab.
@@brutalitygaming1230 I think the real issue is what is the purpose of this unbounded growth and resources? Why make such political statements against war, against climate change and pollution, and use aesthetics towards revolution only to gain power, but not do anything materially with that power and influence
Off whose backs? Designers get paid very well they aint no common worker, also where are the social values when ur boss is one of the richest men on the planet?
Important conversation. I was trying to decide, after the stock exchange show, whether it’s ignorance, harmful, or playing the role of spectator of world issues.
Same, I saw a lot of praise for the artistic choice which I agree, it was a cool venue but at the same time, it just felt shallow. The message that he was trying to convey is pretty much void because it's a huge fashion brand really just trying to sell more clothes at the end of the day.
Literally demna is just memeing. Taking anything he does seriously is where you lose. His messages are shallow because it’s not real to him. The only time I think his message was real was the show with the models walking in the snow other than that he’s just a clone of margiela
Literally you said all of my thoughts regarding Demna. Also not long ago I saw someone pose the question as to why whenever it’s about Balenciaga everything that’s praised is regarding the show more so than the designs themselves, thing that doesn’t happen for other brands. With Demna it is always about the message and never about the actual product and it’s starting to feel gimmicky to me but it’s also so smart because he turns everything into a satire and that makes everything he does untouchable… yes a hoodie in couture 2022 but like ironically…. Duh.
who said demna is not about the final product? his brand vetements is focused exclusively on the final product. and this is not how many people feel about this brand.. i feel like its how you feel about it
Some really interesting points, I like what you said about designers already having successful independent brands of their own. and the decision to move to a bigger brand. I hadn't really thought about it in the way you discussed it here and it actually made me apply that thinking to my own career. Cool video
nice video to watch! i like the fact that you put forward your points in a way which is well informed, true to yourself as well as respectful. regardless of whether people agree or not it would be great to see a video on other designer houses in the future.
I do that, but I feel like a lot of people don't as much. I still think there are interesting ideas in more mainstream high fashion and Demna is definitely a designer worth discussing and more people will always have an opinion than if I talked about much lesser known designers. Although I do plan to highlight lesser known designers I like in the future.
His first collection for Balenciaga actually had some startlingly brilliant ideas - altering the pitch of a collar by shrugging it back, that boxy dior bar jacket, the mix of socialite glitz and utilitarian, the overall styling... a lot could have been extrapolated from that single collection for years to come. But I Guess sales figures inevitably creep in and as usual the interesting things did not sell, so it all devolved (in the way that Alessandro Michele’s Gucci , which I loved, gradually abandoned his ornate proclivities because it probably cost too much to do) As a parallel I think Glenn Maartens at YProject could have had a similar trajectory - he started with notoriously hideous garments for the sake of memes and bad press, taken from all the existing tropes of Everyday clothing, and then once he had gotten the attention he needed, started demonstrating technically what he was capable of. Same can be said of Doublet which has wonderfully innovative textiles and treatments masquerading as kitsch. So there is hope out there. Just don’t expect it from a brand which needs to keep thousands of staff in jobs in hundreds of boutiques worldwide.
I Love this video, I actually agree that fashion brands now and days trade artistic value for monetization and exposition. But it then loses meaning overtime because it cant relate to someone, I think the best type of brand is a brand that stays true to its nature while also creating and inventing "new things". Because there's nothing new in this world, just a recreation or remix of something that already exist in someway.
I'm still watching the video but, I feel like most of the brands like CDG express themselves a lot in the runways but have the normal brand that sell normal clothing and with Balenciaga they sell what they're wearing the runways, old, ripped, with mud clothing and etc. Oh to be honest nevermind, this video was made before the scandal and I don't think most the people here that commented will share the same opinion again, maybe hates the brand rn, but Balenci it's very hot right now
i never came to this thought process that every brand must have a meaning and something to achieve. honestly i just love him as a designer, but you really changed some views of mine.
It's not that they must, it's just how it is, every artist/designer has some motivation for how and why they're creating what they're creating. It's often not applied to fashion but makes fashion a lot more interesting when you think about these things!
RUclips got it right recommending this video to me. I absolutely agree with everything you said! I am new to fashion but I'm an artist and my medium is the same position as fashion. Accessibility at the expense of meaning and quality is not a good thing. Not everyone's a sell-out, it's just that those people don't get any coverage. Just found your channel and subscribed
Full disclosure, haven’t watched the full video cuz I have to run to work haha, but calling Virgil a money maker is a pretty huge understatement. Say what you will about his design style, and of course there are big problems with the general hype beast culture, but Virgil used the resources of fashion houses like LV to make clothes that real people (including a lot of people of color) actually wear day to day. Now, of course most people can’t afford to casually purchase Off-White dunks or LV varsity jackets, but Virgil’s willingness to embrace street style especially from the perspective of a black man from Chicago really helped to break down the Ivory Tower of high fashion, at least in my opinion. I think in general it’s really hard to make an argument that fashion, or any given art form is becoming diluted, because anytime you look at the history of art you get old elites telling younger people that they are ruining their craft. Yeah, design languages and subcultures have become homogenized thanks to things like the Internet and Virgil. But I dunno, to me there’s a beauty in that that’s lost when high fashion is left to the arcane wizardry of elite designers that alienate most casual people (especially when the vast majority of those elite designers and consumers are white and incredibly wealthy). Neither option is better than the other, just different paths. Lovely video though, will finish it when I get back to the house!
I appreciate your thoughts! this video wasn't about Virgil I just thought he was relevant to the point I was making, I plan to make a full video talking about him. I see where you're coming from and I do have an appreciation for Virgil! I've been getting other comments about him so I think I will save my thoughts for the video on him!
The comment about sustainability really resonated with me and i agree with you. I'm a retired architect and sustainability is an issue as well in architecture. Buildings being one of the biggest pollutants on earth, not only in constructing a building but also maintaining it. Anyways, its funny how there is a lot of virtue signaling in both design fields. One brand i do like and i think does sustainability well is Patagonia. They are def not making Balenciaga money but they do stick behind their cause about saving the planet. I think an honest statement they make is that they know that they are unsustainable as a clothing company and their efforts are to become more sustainable by exploring and creating pieces that both resonate with the community of outdoors enthusiasts as well as creating mores sustainable materials and means of production.
His new collection that previewed on a street in LA seemed like a joke. As if Demna couldn't be bothered to put in the time and effort to make fashion with substance and ideas. Balenciaga gym shorts? Hoodies? It seemed like he went to Chinatown and bought ripoffs and ironed Balenciaga logos onto the garments.
Nailed it... opened up new thought ways in terms of how balenciaga and vetements approach design, some of my favorites as well but have plenty of missteps along the way, especially appreciate the extra attention around the whole “woah is me this industries doomed anyways” approach
I really agree with the whole point of “diluting high fashion.” Like as someone who really appreciates designer and looks deeper than just the brands logo, its really painful to go and see some tik toker filming a stupid prank video in some thousand dollar balenciaga hoodie. I just feel its really upsetting when designers are almost purposefully setting themselves up to become less about the design and more about the revenue that comes with the brand.
Great video and I think I agree a lot of the time. Demna’s Balenciaga early on didn’t really feel like a consumer product (from my perspective) and rather a poignant thing that maybe you weren’t even supposed to buy and if you were buying it you were ‘falling for it’ but the Adidas and Facebook collaborations and the usage of the stock exchange are just starting to feel unusual and maybe a tad out of touch. I can’t quite put my finger on why but a lot of the points in this video are definitely part of it. Thank you very much for a great video, excited to see the next.
I agree although I wasn't a huge fan of vetements I had a much greater appreciation for its unique position in fashion at the time but I feel like that has been lost
For someone from the industry (hi! How are you? I go by Ozzy!) I think this is well put and really appreciate your opinion. I never thought of it this way (I don't follow high fashion designers anymore because it is all for profit and there is so much issues with them) and is so refreshing to hear!! You got yourself a new subscriber and can't wait to see more of your commentary. Working in the fashion industry for 10 years and we need opinions and thoughts like this. Thank you!!!!
I personally like a fair bit of Balenciagas designs I just don’t like that this is what high fashion is now. Literally just what me and the other povo kids got from op shops and donation bins but a little bit stretched and warped, few extra pockets and platform soles. When I was a kid I’d leaf through old magazines looking at the designs, regal and otherworldly and luxurious, with fabrics I’d never seen in real life making shapes you couldn’t try to imagine. Now it’s just hypebeasts in 900 dollar hoodies and quirked up sneakers that they can’t style and look terrible on them bc the most experimental thing they’ve ever worn was their mums nightie when they were playing dress up as kids.
I feel like there’s a place for irony and sarcasm within high fashion. The nihilistic and ironic style has been used in many art forms, I think we should me open to it, especially if it’s purposeful and well conceptualised.
I agree and while it wouldn't be my favourite idea in general, I think that Vetements did a decent job with it when they first came out with it however I've grown disenchanted with the idea and it no longer holds the same message in the current context to me.
Fashion critique is like a lost art imo. So many fashion youtuber try to educate but getting lost in the information i.e. Bliss Foster. Your channel is such a breath of fresh air. Beside great perspectives, you trigger such a meaningful discussion in the comment section. Great stuff, keep doing what you doing!
The most important thing at Vetements and Balenciaga is the styling, this is why the stylist Lotta Volkova is so elemental to these brands. Its the mixture of different types of clothing that usually do not go together within the same look, like bdsm with athleisure, that make it modern, avant gard and subvert the traditional ways of dressing. This came from Gvasalia growing up in a post soviet country where people could only access limited and traditional clothing, and the post soviet subcultures that inspired Gvasalia's work used the mixture of different styles of clothes as an act of rebellion
I would love a video of Kanye and your views on his influence and recent work with denma.also just want to say been following you on TikTok for ages and I love the longer videos I’ve found you are one of the only fashion creators that can have a non bias and fully researched understanding of the topic
great video, super on point, refreshing to hear. i too really enjoyed the irony and thought Demna was incredibly genius, but lately i've just been bored with it all - wish things would get more spiritual and grandiose feeling, so i really enjoyed a take really excellently articulated about wanting to abandon the nihilistic perspective and irony in hopes for something, well, new. thanks for that. however, i would like to respectfully disagree on one of the points you made, if that's chill. you made an excellent and obviously true point about big houses hiring up and coming, hot designers as creative directors. these big houses will always do such to stay relevant and hot, but the believer in me has me thinking there's more to it than just that. i think such a hiring is a marker for the house's future, a new direction, a new era, and also is such a collaboration with the mind, who takes into consideration the house's legacy - aesthetic, fabrics used, tailoring, message - and tries to add to it. the fashion industry can obvi get gossipy and weird, but when i actually appreciate the lore, i can look past the capitalism of it and really just look at these shows and collections as high art, on a giant capitalist stage, as oppose to capitalist products wrapped with an artistic bow. for example - you stated at the beginning of the video, Margiela did the only Hermes collection you cared about (same tbh, though i havent seen all, but ew why would i) and it was unlock anything he'd ever done. Galliano at Margiela, I believe, was controversial but such an interesting moment for the fashion world, and while it's different, it's my opinion that he's furthering the house's legacy in innovative ways. also look at such differences from Galliano at Dior, or Heidi, or Kim Jones, or Kris Van Assche, or Raf, etc. It doesn't seem as much an attempt to capitalize as it does to bring freshness to a house. In regards to Demna, I vaguely remember friends saying it was such an odd, risky hiring, as Balenciaga was always couture and tailor heavy, but was struggling and desperate for a revival and direction, to which, to your point, it was dope but perhaps now beaten to death. Lastly, while, sure the bag retrieved, there's a multitude of reasons a designer would go to a bigger house to creative direct, if given full control, to fuse their ideas for the house while adding their true touch. obviously, the challenge, the access to materials/budget, the press, and, perhaps most of all, as a friend of mine who went to direct at Helmut stated, to learn. but anyway, its too often we see vids being hyper critical of a designers work without the sentiment of message, or, in contrast, the can-do-no-wrong praise when the message is interesting, but hasn't changed in nearly a decade. best~
I'm so glad I found your channel. You're funny, passionate, analytical, have morals/principles and all of this in the name of fashion?? Bravo! Vai cosi! - Love from Naples
Great video. I agree with you for the most part. Ans in my opinion. McQueen was the last of the big designers who didn’t sell out. He hated his stint at givenchy with a passion because he felt like they were putting restraints on his creativity that’s why in the end. He was just designing his own line. I guess. I like your take on the whole industry. The only thing is. I wish u would slow down your wording But keep on doing your thing. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yeah virgil is a money maker but look at Louis Vuitton shows for menswear in previous eras and look at the zainy childish and playful Louis Vuitton that is present today. And also watch an off white show there is a lot of creativity and ability within virgil and I don’t think he should have been merely lumped in to the money makers category because yes he makes money but he is extremely important in the official narrative and lore of fashion especially for young black people. He is the first “high fashion” creative director who had an Afro-centric and Afro-American centric view to fashion. I know this is not exactly that deep and that this was not the point but it did kind of irk me that virgil was merely cast into the money maker pile along with Kim jones. 🙏🏽also great video and I subscribed🙏🏽
Well I think that that was a major aspect that I didn't like about Virgil. Everything else you said is true obviously there is more to him, I just felt that he was relevant to the point I was making. I plan to make a video on him in the future and properly analyse his career and impact. I think he is a part of the money making designer group like Kim Jones but there is definitely more to him than Kim Jones. I appreciate your comment, thanks!
“Fashion people” forget that this is all business, money making isnt inherently bad. If anything being able to make money while doing something new is the mark of genius and what most designers aim to do. Virgil is largely dismissed by “certain crowds” of fashion because he brought a way of dress to high fashion that they were traditionally dismissive of.
@@12Arrancar I agree, and it is sometimes hard for me to separate but I try to. I'll keep my opinions on Virgil for my video but I think there is no way his impact should be dismissed.
@@fashionlover4 I personally have never liked anything Virgil Abloh had ever done and it was so refreshing to see a fashion RUclipsr not constantly slob on his knob lol
your content is so informative for me trying to learn different points of view on brands and their messaging, very helpful when trying to create informed personal opinions on designers and explore their work, keep it up!
Demna started out really strong with his first Balenciaga collections (Women's FW16 and Mens SS17); you could tell he was really trying to put on his big-boy pants on and do justice to this historic couture house by trying to create a good mix between the heritage and his aesthetic (streetwear, utilitarian and uniformistic designs with couture-eque silhouettes) - it seemed like Kering gave him full creative freedom to remake the brands image at the beginning and as time went on they began exacting more control over the collections and told him what to make based on what sold best. And so the collections are becoming more basic and watered down - even the few shock-tactic gimmicks for press he does for every show are getting tired (and the elaborate sets don't help a lot either). FW20 was the last solid Balenciaga show - right before the pandemic
You said you dont like the big luxury brands and I think anyone that has a genuine interest in fashion can easily feel like that. The brands dont really sell their original brand identity anymore, they havent for a while. Its all about who is the head of the brand, selling what *they* do, not what the brand does. Using your example of Virgil, Lee McQ, Galliano etc. What that means is that for most of these brands, the very expensive brands are essentally very expensive diffusion lines, no wonder we arent interested much 🤷
That's a good way to put it, I honestly believe that once the main designer is done with their brand there is nothing wrong with simply ending it but obviously that's where money comes in and ruins everything. It's not all bad obviously but I'm more interested in new ideas not rehashing older ones.
honestly, I don't think you're overly idealistic. it's honestly nice to see that Gen Z creators tend to be more conscious that millennials, many of whom seem to have completely internalised late capitalism driven by consumption or the 'ironic' response to it. Also, v true about Demna... I also liked early Vetements, but the meaning has become deflated with Balenciaga. also, cool to know that you're from Ukraine originally! My grandad's family are from there.
Ironic that high fashion would take a jab at capitalism because all of there clients are people who played the capitalism game right and are winning so they can spend thousands of dollars on Gucci or whatever else.
Great message. Sure makes you think why we are promoting these brands. Especially now in the light of their latest campaign thats horrific. It does raise questions on social issues that these “luxury” brands dont give a f***k about.
I like your videos, I agree with some of your points, but I disagree a lot on some particular things. So allow me to give a comment for the algorithm and then ramble to myself in comment form: I understand and honestly agree with your critique of high fashion and art in general in a capitalist setting: the tendency towards monetization rather than authenticity. It's real, it's rife, and it's endemic to art on that level & variety. I also think you're completely right about Demna & the fashion industry as a whole not taking the opportunity to stir socially conscious change or ecological improvement. But I fail to see how your alternatives are an effective or legitimate response. Particularly through the idea that Demna or other designers should stay independent to be "competitive" with larger corporations like Kering or LVMH. At a surface level you have more of an avenue for self-expression, but that's as far as you go. Artistic messaging/authenticity. Major corporations will continue to purchase other brands, supply others with better resources, copy your designs, demolish competition through ruthless oligopolization, and be parasitic on not just the arts for life on Earth itself. Your alternative towards independence is to add to the proliferation of capital, and in turn, the exploitation of the working class & its other issues. Maybe it's a misinterpretation but your advocacy is ironic in comparison to Virgil's "You can do it too," which is essentially Virgil telling you "You can make a living off of art too."/"You can follow your dreams too." Virgil didn't tell people to screen print shirts to literally be part of off-white, he described what you want, getting people to do what they find meaningful on their own terms, as well. Though Virgil never really came off as anti-elitist (he honestly dwelled among them though coming from humble beginnings) your prescription entirely is. And I don't want to come off as an artistic and political doomer, I think people should make what they find meaningful, but aspirations of being commercial or even ranking against major brands are entirely mislead. Really, if we're all in agreement that a capitalist system is a culprit for not just this trend in art, but social/ecological/economic issues, then it's the foremost concern to change it before worrying about how to establish our work. You said it yourself, we can't just be ironic or gloomy about the suffering this begets, we need to take actionable steps. On the superficiality of fashion/art, I wouldn't say art across the board in a capitalist setting is "sold out." I wouldn't say Death Grips is, nor Professor E, but I don't think you actually think that everything new is sold-out, maybe just art on a "high" level. Vetements *was* a reaction, but at the same time, it's a reflection because of the reaction of its consumer base: aesthetes & the elite. Vetements was critical of elitism/pretentious in a way you'd only know about if you were very interested in it, unlike the regular consumer/laborer/person because it's a thing for a certain class or type of person. You can draw the line between the pretentiousness of the elite who enjoyed exclusive & expensive high fashion of Chanel or Versace, and people who "get" the strangeness/challenging/ironic nature of Vetements or Comme Des Garçons. But isn't it clear that these artists are two different types of elitism? Maybe they're both spawned from capitalism, but one is clearly a wealth-based elitism, and the other is knowledge-based. "You don't get Vetements, that's why you can't enjoy it," is similar, but not the same as "You can't afford Gucci, that's why you can't enjoy it." This also makes me wonder, if you have an issue with either or both of those, then what's the issue with the democratization of fashion? Will the average person "dilute" the artistry? Does that really make sense? How would they do that? Did hip-hop or skate culture die when it became big? Or was there possibly more innovation and fruitful enjoyment of the arts & culture? If you don't want pretentiousness/elitism branching off of exclusivity & hierarchy, then why not welcome more people into art & culture? I understand that we all enjoy subculture & niche-ness, but holding onto the mentality that more people knowing about/participating in it is problematic can be akin to gatekeeping. All in all, I just think that if we know the issue is capital, then alongside empowering artists to create more, we should tackle the machine that causes all sorts of issues for us. Democratization has historically, and politically been a net good for culture & art, we should approach/embrace it so we can realize its benefits. Subculture has its luster but there's simply more progress in letting in to innovate than there is to keep this art & industry exclusive. Thanks for reading if ya did.
Thanks for the in depth comment, I appreciate your perspective a lot! First off I did mention a lot of topics in this video that Demna is related to but are whole topics of their own which I didn't want to go further into to keep the focus on Demna. Topics like Virgil and the democratization of Fashion which you brought up. I plan to make a separate video on Virgil so I'll keep my thoughts on him for that. And I started writing a long reply about my thoughts on democratization but I realise that I also have a lot more to say on that and I don't have time to properly formulate my thoughts and give you an answer I'm happy with. I promise I'll make a video on that as well as I feel like in a youtube comment I'll probably miss things and I want to give you a properly thought out answer. Sorry if this seems like a shitty response but I promise in future videos I'll address your thoughts and I'm really glad you shared them, I definitely have more to think about now!
I disagree with most of the things you said (in multiple videos) but I respect you for actually taking the time to articulate your ideas and I admire how you built this small yet really strong community of ppl who actually think before commenting
I covered fashion in Paris in the ‘80s & 90s It was a time of immense creativity and talent. The designers put creativity first and if they made money, all the better. It was probably one of the few real Golden ages of fashion. In contrast, I am very disappointed in how the industry has evolved strictly into money making machines. I am aligned with your observations. I am impressed that at your young age, you have figured out so much on your own. PS. What we see on a catwalk is often rooted in those 6 or so big schools specializing in fashion education. Would love to hear your commentary on that subject.
Sidenote I do love how Balenciaga makes model's work 🤣😂. No just walking, they walk in masks, in dirt, in stupid rooms, with stupid shoes, with carrier bags, in wind and fake snow 🤣😂🤣😂. I got to say when I walk on wind, snow or muddy puddles I certainly don't walk with my head up like an alien 👽😂🤣
Agree, I'll say this and hopefully can make it concise, Balenciaga is always one to watch but are we watching for the gimmicks (which can be brilliant) or for the clothes? Re the gimp mask show you have on in the background, take away the masks, rubber tights and oversized shoes and what are you left with nothing much in terms of the clothing and the design of which. The labelling is ALL, Prada as well, the label is literally king, the garment it's sits on means much less, the same here, it's branding and glitz but little substance. That's why Galliano, Westwood and McQueen really are brilliant fashion designers whereas Demna and the massive team and resources behind him are genius marketeers for the rolex wearing brand obsessed celebrities and their followers.
Wouldn't necessarily agree with the Nirvana statement. Although Nirvana was a cornerstone for a genre that seems to use music as an outlet for angst, Nevermind (which is featured on the video) is Nirvana's own attempt at comercial success-hence being the band's most successful effort. The album was, of all things, released by one of the many accolades of Interscope (owned by Universal), a major label. Nirvana could have been, at the time, the embodiment of that "rebellious" attitude but, as long as they're working for a major label, the content they produce is going to be limited by the label's own interest in releasing it. Lyrically speaking, grunge's themes are no different than those of the many brutal genres it is contemporary to, but the sound is a lot easier to listen to. Ultimately, its popularity comes from the fact that it was a very well-marketed product. It had the "brutality" of the lyrics but it was sonically very attractive-something black metal was not, for instance. It offered every kid back then the possibility of being "rebellious" even if they were not into the "heavy stuff". Besides, it "democratized" music, as it generally uses very simple but yet efficient compositions. Grunge denied every aspect of "high-end" heavy music: Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters" were released one month apart and, listening to it, you could sense it would take you ages to get to Metallica's level (even if that happens to be their sellout number) but you could easily get to Nirvana's-or at least it presented that idea. Grunge was also very short-lived. It comes out of teenage rebellion, so it lasts as long as there is teenage angst. However, once overcome, there's nothing grunge can offer for both listener and musician. So, in conclusion, Nirvana and Demna are much more similar than your statement wants to makes them. Nirvana's integrity as a band sure may come from that angsty feeling you describe as authentic and un-sellout-like, but their popularity is achieved by a process similar to that of Demna's-that both have a label behind that wants to make sure they profit off whatever it is artists produce. It is interesting you refer to Nirvana as never compromising when grunge is perceived by the heavy music community as nothing else besides selling out, mainly because they offer an easier take on heavy music subculture, "diluting it" as you say. I believe this has to do with your generation's distance from that time (as you mention yourself), combined with Nirvana's status as a band. There's nothing wrong with that but this sort of statement tends to be more myth than actual true and it needs clarification.
I'm always not a fan of balenciaga. to me their products represent "i am so rich that i can afford to buy items that poor people wear for thousands of dollars". but ngl some of their stuff like the black reebok looking sneakers look pretty cool
Love the video, but I don’t really agree with your stance on modern artists “selling out”. There’s nothing wrong with an artist wanting to make money off of their work. Making art for arts sake is noble, but that’s just not realistic if you’re struggling to pay rent, or worrying about where your next meal’s gonna come from. At some point, you’re eventually going to need a source of income. As long as it doesn’t effect their work, I don’t mind an artist doing endorsements, getting sponsorships, or doing more interviews. In fact, I’ll even applaud it if I’ve been following them for a while.
Well I think there is a difference between selling out and making money as an artist. As I said in the video artists and even content creators should be paid for their work 100%. I personally believe in a more direct way of that happening such as through patreon and various support systems like that where the fan/consumer pays the creator/artist. Rather than having to sell items they don't care for. Endorsements are fine and I never said anything about not doing interviews? I agree, if it doesn't effect their work and also doesn't go against what they supposedly stand for. I feel like maybe people should be more responsible with how they make their money through social media and art and recognise that influence. I don't have a one for all answer of course but it's something that I think about a lot when it comes to how I want to monetise the content I create.
Great video as always! I was wondering if you could do a video on the significance of Margiela? I'm coming from the music field but more and more (through your videos) my creativity has been inspired by fashion despite how pretentious and exclusive I find it. Keep it up!
I completely agree about how annoying it is that new designers are always poached by bigger brands. It sucks seeing someone on the come up just for them to end up at dior or something. W vid keep it up
Interesting idea, I guess that would be quite a long term play for him to do. I think we'll only really know once we see how his entire career turns out but I don't think he's trying to speedrun capitalism, I can't see what he's doing helping long term unless he shifts his message.
@@fashionlover4 I think when brands succeed in obscuring the lines in high fashion and do things similar to Balenciaga (whether they have an anti-capitalist message or not), they’re also succeeding in accelerating and basically taking apart the fashion system as a whole and sort of imagining a different world. Even with the profit motive and blatant cash grabs, I think Demna is still doing something profound. I don’t think you’re exactly wrong though; I just think it’s a matter of perspective. Great vid and channel tho I can’t wait to see you grow larger!
You should do a video on Yeezy for sure as I feel like Kanye takes a lot of inspiration from Demna while at the same time being different. He's not "high fashion" per say but I think he's interesting and an integral figure none the less.
@@fashionlover4 well you were talking about how Demna sold his soul to a conglomerate and I feel like Ye actually built his own empire instead of going to a conglomerate. He made smart decisions by collaborating with Gap and Adidas to get the means of production he wanted to produce his stuff on a higher scale. Plus he and Demna just recently collabed on Yeezy Gap Balenciaga which in a way democratized fashion (although I wouldn't call it "high fashion"). To me Kanye still has pride in what he does and continues to at least be interesting and divisive in the fashion community as an outsider and clearly has inspired Virgil, Demna and Rubchinsky to an extent.
Whenever big fashion houses claim to be environmentally conscious, my eyes roll. LVHM was found to have been one of the top corporations responsible for deforestation in the Amazon and people just don’t care?
I get a sense that those who have no money, tend to think that everybody else is doing everything for the money and profit. I honestly disagree. As a creative myself, I feel so much of creative energy and a TONE of inspiration in Demnas collections, maybe because I am Eastern European and can relate with him a little deeper, or maybe i just have a bad taste in fashion LOL
This kind of "woke" argument is always around capitalism, sellout and elitism then reject whoever seems on the side of it😂 Like who's really the pure rebel, who's really the anti system? Even Nirvana did commercial and pop thing. And actually Demna really make the runway more entertaining and interesting with those "weird" design. Balenciaga has been doing avant garde thing since long time ago.
To me I always feel that Balenciaga (at least the way they communicate) got that sense of looking down on others, so you can feel high above & edgy. You're part of the inside joke, but the biggest joke is buying to that ideal to me.
I really feel this too
Bum Couture
I cop the style and it's the high castle for me
Well, i lived during the 90s, i was into fashion, and art, architecture, etc. The thing is, fashion was about creating beauty, within the world of design and fabrics, thats why people like Valentino, Ungaro or Galliano was so apreciated, but then, the owners of this fashion brands realized that fashion was similar to Art, it had an specific audience, and that meant that they only could sell high priced items to that audience, so to get wider they knew they had to mix their product with the vibe of the times, the emerging of the street and the low street culture into pop culture, a symbol of that was the bag that Demna presented for his 1st collection for Balenciaga, the striped Bazar shopping bag, wich is nothing but a leather version of the Bolsa para la Feria that we use here in latin america to go shop the food of the week in the street ferias, only that we buy those for 1 dollar. Today its not anymore about quality or brilliant design and reach a level of beauty, its about the vibe, the idea atached to the garment, the message of the clothes, the logo, and the group that it represents. To me, what got lost, was the idea to create something Beautiful, to get the attention of people through creating beauty.
Amen
Resources is a big factor for the decision for a lot of these designers. Virgil had spoken about that before, and also through helping Tyler with Le Fleur’s perfumes/trunks. Designers like going to the established houses because of the sheer resources they have present to do whatever they would like to with it. Demna working with Mercedes F-1 for the futuristic couture glasses and masks would probably not be a possibility if he stayed with VETEMENTS with Guram. He wouldn’t be able to stop and rent out the NYC Stock Exchange. The houses give designers the tools to make their desires possible and grow their networks whilst making a metric shit-ton of profit off their backs.
And to the factor of social values, Demna utilizes lots of the imagery that he was surrounded by growing up, being from a similar area I see the references to the culture in his work. Demna was a child of war, and that show was considering being cancelled due to the war in Ukraine, the trash bags, towels and cheap department store plastic sunglasses were what was available as he had to flee his country’s war. He works heavily with the WFP and up-cycles lots of old pieces for sustainability. As for working with celebs I don’t think that exactly is in his power rather the marketing. Demna worked on Yeezy Season 1 with Ye so he has a mentor relationship there. Kanye set up and stylized lots of what Kim’s association with the brand is. Of course there is a lot that he does wrong or is signaling if anything but compared to most of the fashion landscape of today Demna really is ahead in the aspect of social values, in my opinion.
This is true and the only reason I could really think of. However, in Demna's case he just left the brand he built behind for more resources? I don't think a lack of resources is a bad thing, it means you need to be more creative. I think Demna has definitely still utilised the resources he's been given at Balenciaga to the max, the venues are always amazing but that doesn't mean he didn't have to sacrifice vetements in the process. I'm glad he at least didn't try to run two brands at once. I think I would also just need to know more about the costs and logistics behind these brands to properly understand his motivations.
@@fashionlover4 I agree but don’t think he sacrificed the brand, the tried to do both for a while and that’s when it truly suffered, the collections from when he ran both brands were not very good, he let his brother Guram take the helm, and Guram has somewhat continued the same design language. A lot of the themes and characteristics are shared and they both consult on the designs. Balenciaga let Demna change everything resource vise, down to how the retail stores are brutalist deconstructions, and sustainable in that old (previously trashed) clothes were used to make furniture or decor. I don’t think he could have achieved the same level of success with VETEMENTS if he did the same work for at least another 20-30 years. The resources from a house like Kering are just too great, too many stores, artisans and all. Demna’s spirits and designs are still going on with both brands (down to the Gvasalias Simpsons shirt they did following the Simpsons X Balenciaga collab.
@@brutalitygaming1230 I think the real issue is what is the purpose of this unbounded growth and resources? Why make such political statements against war, against climate change and pollution, and use aesthetics towards revolution only to gain power, but not do anything materially with that power and influence
Off whose backs? Designers get paid very well they aint no common worker, also where are the social values when ur boss is one of the richest men on the planet?
Important conversation. I was trying to decide, after the stock exchange show, whether it’s ignorance, harmful, or playing the role of spectator of world issues.
Same, I saw a lot of praise for the artistic choice which I agree, it was a cool venue but at the same time, it just felt shallow. The message that he was trying to convey is pretty much void because it's a huge fashion brand really just trying to sell more clothes at the end of the day.
Literally demna is just memeing. Taking anything he does seriously is where you lose. His messages are shallow because it’s not real to him. The only time I think his message was real was the show with the models walking in the snow other than that he’s just a clone of margiela
Literally you said all of my thoughts regarding Demna. Also not long ago I saw someone pose the question as to why whenever it’s about Balenciaga everything that’s praised is regarding the show more so than the designs themselves, thing that doesn’t happen for other brands. With Demna it is always about the message and never about the actual product and it’s starting to feel gimmicky to me but it’s also so smart because he turns everything into a satire and that makes everything he does untouchable… yes a hoodie in couture 2022 but like ironically…. Duh.
who said demna is not about the final product? his brand vetements is focused exclusively on the final product. and this is not how many people feel about this brand.. i feel like its how you feel about it
@@_narcissist His Balenciaga work is mostly him being a performatic troll, though. The fact he partners with Kim Kardashian is emblematic.
@@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult stfu pls a lot of people like it and for good reason 🤗
@@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult exactly he’s trolling and this video seems to think demna is serious. Demna is a clone of margiela
@kyfaydfsoab what
Money makes the world go round. At the end of the day fashion is playing the game.
found your channel randomly and I got a feeling it’s gonna get bigger real soon. love your perspective dude!
exactly the same
That would be great, thanks so much for the support!
Same
Some really interesting points, I like what you said about designers already having successful independent brands of their own. and the decision to move to a bigger brand. I hadn't really thought about it in the way you discussed it here and it actually made me apply that thinking to my own career. Cool video
nice video to watch! i like the fact that you put forward your points in a way which is well informed, true to yourself as well as respectful. regardless of whether people agree or not it would be great to see a video on other designer houses in the future.
Thank you that was my goal, to be critical but respectful. I'm glad you liked it!
After watching I came to the conclusion, the government should subsidize the creation of art. One idea is UBI.
If you want authenticity, stop looking up, at the money names, look down, at the unseen designers
I do that, but I feel like a lot of people don't as much. I still think there are interesting ideas in more mainstream high fashion and Demna is definitely a designer worth discussing and more people will always have an opinion than if I talked about much lesser known designers. Although I do plan to highlight lesser known designers I like in the future.
High fashion is heading in a weird direction 😂 Demna’s good collections usually don’t get media attention sometimes
Which ones are you thinking of?
It's all satanic and all these ultra wealthy people who own, and control these brands are pedos
Loved this video, really well said and easily understandable and enjoyable
Thank you! Everything I was going for
What a refreshing take, very insightful and introspective of you, this channel deserves to blow up 🙏
His first collection for Balenciaga actually had some startlingly brilliant ideas - altering the pitch of a collar by shrugging it back, that boxy dior bar jacket, the mix of socialite glitz and utilitarian, the overall styling... a lot could have been extrapolated from that single collection for years to come. But I Guess sales figures inevitably creep in and as usual the interesting things did not sell, so it all devolved (in the way that Alessandro Michele’s Gucci , which I loved, gradually abandoned his ornate proclivities because it probably cost too much to do)
As a parallel I think Glenn Maartens at YProject could have had a similar trajectory - he started with notoriously hideous garments for the sake of memes and bad press, taken from all the existing tropes of Everyday clothing, and then once he had gotten the attention he needed, started demonstrating technically what he was capable of. Same can be said of Doublet which has wonderfully innovative textiles and treatments masquerading as kitsch. So there is hope out there. Just don’t expect it from a brand which needs to keep thousands of staff in jobs in hundreds of boutiques worldwide.
His earlier Balenciaga work was mainly Martine rose
This was Honestly the best and Most Honest Take on the Fashion and Influencer World.
You have an important role on RUclips, keep these discussions on going
despite the fact i have completely different points of view i really loved your analysis. good job!
I Love this video, I actually agree that fashion brands now and days trade artistic value for monetization and exposition. But it then loses meaning overtime because it cant relate to someone, I think the best type of brand is a brand that stays true to its nature while also creating and inventing "new things". Because there's nothing new in this world, just a recreation or remix of something that already exist in someway.
Nowadays*
I'm still watching the video but, I feel like most of the brands like CDG express themselves a lot in the runways but have the normal brand that sell normal clothing and with Balenciaga they sell what they're wearing the runways, old, ripped, with mud clothing and etc.
Oh to be honest nevermind, this video was made before the scandal and I don't think most the people here that commented will share the same opinion again, maybe hates the brand rn, but Balenci it's very hot right now
i never came to this thought process that every brand must have a meaning and something to achieve. honestly i just love him as a designer, but you really changed some views of mine.
It's not that they must, it's just how it is, every artist/designer has some motivation for how and why they're creating what they're creating. It's often not applied to fashion but makes fashion a lot more interesting when you think about these things!
What a evil person, hope Demna will be prosecuted
RUclips got it right recommending this video to me. I absolutely agree with everything you said! I am new to fashion but I'm an artist and my medium is the same position as fashion. Accessibility at the expense of meaning and quality is not a good thing. Not everyone's a sell-out, it's just that those people don't get any coverage. Just found your channel and subscribed
Full disclosure, haven’t watched the full video cuz I have to run to work haha, but calling Virgil a money maker is a pretty huge understatement. Say what you will about his design style, and of course there are big problems with the general hype beast culture, but Virgil used the resources of fashion houses like LV to make clothes that real people (including a lot of people of color) actually wear day to day. Now, of course most people can’t afford to casually purchase Off-White dunks or LV varsity jackets, but Virgil’s willingness to embrace street style especially from the perspective of a black man from Chicago really helped to break down the Ivory Tower of high fashion, at least in my opinion. I think in general it’s really hard to make an argument that fashion, or any given art form is becoming diluted, because anytime you look at the history of art you get old elites telling younger people that they are ruining their craft. Yeah, design languages and subcultures have become homogenized thanks to things like the Internet and Virgil. But I dunno, to me there’s a beauty in that that’s lost when high fashion is left to the arcane wizardry of elite designers that alienate most casual people (especially when the vast majority of those elite designers and consumers are white and incredibly wealthy). Neither option is better than the other, just different paths. Lovely video though, will finish it when I get back to the house!
I appreciate your thoughts! this video wasn't about Virgil I just thought he was relevant to the point I was making, I plan to make a full video talking about him. I see where you're coming from and I do have an appreciation for Virgil! I've been getting other comments about him so I think I will save my thoughts for the video on him!
@@fashionlover4 For sure, I know it was a very minor point, just wanted to word vomit for a bit haha
90s had real sub cultures which we don’t really have now because of phones and etc
Golden era ❤
The comment about sustainability really resonated with me and i agree with you. I'm a retired architect and sustainability is an issue as well in architecture. Buildings being one of the biggest pollutants on earth, not only in constructing a building but also maintaining it. Anyways, its funny how there is a lot of virtue signaling in both design fields.
One brand i do like and i think does sustainability well is Patagonia. They are def not making Balenciaga money but they do stick behind their cause about saving the planet. I think an honest statement they make is that they know that they are unsustainable as a clothing company and their efforts are to become more sustainable by exploring and creating pieces that both resonate with the community of outdoors enthusiasts as well as creating mores sustainable materials and means of production.
His new collection that previewed on a street in LA seemed like a joke. As if Demna couldn't be bothered to put in the time and effort to make fashion with substance and ideas. Balenciaga gym shorts? Hoodies? It seemed like he went to Chinatown and bought ripoffs and ironed Balenciaga logos onto the garments.
Nailed it... opened up new thought ways in terms of how balenciaga and vetements approach design, some of my favorites as well but have plenty of missteps along the way, especially appreciate the extra attention around the whole “woah is me this industries doomed anyways” approach
I really agree with the whole point of “diluting high fashion.” Like as someone who really appreciates designer and looks deeper than just the brands logo, its really painful to go and see some tik toker filming a stupid prank video in some thousand dollar balenciaga hoodie. I just feel its really upsetting when designers are almost purposefully setting themselves up to become less about the design and more about the revenue that comes with the brand.
Great video and I think I agree a lot of the time. Demna’s Balenciaga early on didn’t really feel like a consumer product (from my perspective) and rather a poignant thing that maybe you weren’t even supposed to buy and if you were buying it you were ‘falling for it’ but the Adidas and Facebook collaborations and the usage of the stock exchange are just starting to feel unusual and maybe a tad out of touch. I can’t quite put my finger on why but a lot of the points in this video are definitely part of it. Thank you very much for a great video, excited to see the next.
I agree although I wasn't a huge fan of vetements I had a much greater appreciation for its unique position in fashion at the time but I feel like that has been lost
For someone from the industry (hi! How are you? I go by Ozzy!) I think this is well put and really appreciate your opinion. I never thought of it this way (I don't follow high fashion designers anymore because it is all for profit and there is so much issues with them) and is so refreshing to hear!! You got yourself a new subscriber and can't wait to see more of your commentary. Working in the fashion industry for 10 years and we need opinions and thoughts like this. Thank you!!!!
That's super nice to hear! I don't work in the industry (yet) so it's good to hear there are other people in it who agree. Thanks for the support!
Lol I thought I was gonna learn about Demna but left after bro spent minutes going on his own rant and opinions.
I personally like a fair bit of Balenciagas designs I just don’t like that this is what high fashion is now. Literally just what me and the other povo kids got from op shops and donation bins but a little bit stretched and warped, few extra pockets and platform soles. When I was a kid I’d leaf through old magazines looking at the designs, regal and otherworldly and luxurious, with fabrics I’d never seen in real life making shapes you couldn’t try to imagine. Now it’s just hypebeasts in 900 dollar hoodies and quirked up sneakers that they can’t style and look terrible on them bc the most experimental thing they’ve ever worn was their mums nightie when they were playing dress up as kids.
honesty you put my thoughts into words about demnas irony... my goat fashionlover4
Thank you fortnite_legendary_scar
@@fashionlover4 😜
you’re saying so much ive been thinking for a while in this video, but more eloquently than i ever could
Thank you, I did have to write some stuff down I am not so eloquently spoken naturally
@@fashionlover4 of course! no one expects anyone on here to talk smart off the cuff haha.
I feel like there’s a place for irony and sarcasm within high fashion. The nihilistic and ironic style has been used in many art forms, I think we should me open to it, especially if it’s purposeful and well conceptualised.
I agree and while it wouldn't be my favourite idea in general, I think that Vetements did a decent job with it when they first came out with it however I've grown disenchanted with the idea and it no longer holds the same message in the current context to me.
When the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes, yet you're still clamoring to buy them.
Really enjoyed your examination of this.
Fashion critique is like a lost art imo. So many fashion youtuber try to educate but getting lost in the information i.e. Bliss Foster. Your channel is such a breath of fresh air. Beside great perspectives, you trigger such a meaningful discussion in the comment section. Great stuff, keep doing what you doing!
Bliss foster raped his wife
The most important thing at Vetements and Balenciaga is the styling, this is why the stylist Lotta Volkova is so elemental to these brands. Its the mixture of different types of clothing that usually do not go together within the same look, like bdsm with athleisure, that make it modern, avant gard and subvert the traditional ways of dressing. This came from Gvasalia growing up in a post soviet country where people could only access limited and traditional clothing, and the post soviet subcultures that inspired Gvasalia's work used the mixture of different styles of clothes as an act of rebellion
I would love a video of Kanye and your views on his influence and recent work with denma.also just want to say been following you on TikTok for ages and I love the longer videos I’ve found you are one of the only fashion creators that can have a non bias and fully researched understanding of the topic
fantastic video; so refreshing to see someone talking about these subjects without screaming into the mic and plastering memes every 5 seconds
great video, super on point, refreshing to hear. i too really enjoyed the irony and thought Demna was incredibly genius, but lately i've just been bored with it all - wish things would get more spiritual and grandiose feeling, so i really enjoyed a take really excellently articulated about wanting to abandon the nihilistic perspective and irony in hopes for something, well, new. thanks for that. however, i would like to respectfully disagree on one of the points you made, if that's chill. you made an excellent and obviously true point about big houses hiring up and coming, hot designers as creative directors. these big houses will always do such to stay relevant and hot, but the believer in me has me thinking there's more to it than just that. i think such a hiring is a marker for the house's future, a new direction, a new era, and also is such a collaboration with the mind, who takes into consideration the house's legacy - aesthetic, fabrics used, tailoring, message - and tries to add to it. the fashion industry can obvi get gossipy and weird, but when i actually appreciate the lore, i can look past the capitalism of it and really just look at these shows and collections as high art, on a giant capitalist stage, as oppose to capitalist products wrapped with an artistic bow. for example - you stated at the beginning of the video, Margiela did the only Hermes collection you cared about (same tbh, though i havent seen all, but ew why would i) and it was unlock anything he'd ever done. Galliano at Margiela, I believe, was controversial but such an interesting moment for the fashion world, and while it's different, it's my opinion that he's furthering the house's legacy in innovative ways. also look at such differences from Galliano at Dior, or Heidi, or Kim Jones, or Kris Van Assche, or Raf, etc. It doesn't seem as much an attempt to capitalize as it does to bring freshness to a house. In regards to Demna, I vaguely remember friends saying it was such an odd, risky hiring, as Balenciaga was always couture and tailor heavy, but was struggling and desperate for a revival and direction, to which, to your point, it was dope but perhaps now beaten to death. Lastly, while, sure the bag retrieved, there's a multitude of reasons a designer would go to a bigger house to creative direct, if given full control, to fuse their ideas for the house while adding their true touch. obviously, the challenge, the access to materials/budget, the press, and, perhaps most of all, as a friend of mine who went to direct at Helmut stated, to learn. but anyway, its too often we see vids being hyper critical of a designers work without the sentiment of message, or, in contrast, the can-do-no-wrong praise when the message is interesting, but hasn't changed in nearly a decade. best~
I'm so glad I found your channel. You're funny, passionate, analytical, have morals/principles and all of this in the name of fashion?? Bravo! Vai cosi! - Love from Naples
Great video. I agree with you for the most part. Ans in my opinion. McQueen was the last of the big designers who didn’t sell out. He hated his stint at givenchy with a passion because he felt like they were putting restraints on his creativity that’s why in the end. He was just designing his own line. I guess. I like your take on the whole industry. The only thing is. I wish u would slow down your wording But keep on doing your thing. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yeah virgil is a money maker but look at Louis Vuitton shows for menswear in previous eras and look at the zainy childish and playful Louis Vuitton that is present today. And also watch an off white show there is a lot of creativity and ability within virgil and I don’t think he should have been merely lumped in to the money makers category because yes he makes money but he is extremely important in the official narrative and lore of fashion especially for young black people. He is the first “high fashion” creative director who had an Afro-centric and Afro-American centric view to fashion. I know this is not exactly that deep and that this was not the point but it did kind of irk me that virgil was merely cast into the money maker pile along with Kim jones. 🙏🏽also great video and I subscribed🙏🏽
Well I think that that was a major aspect that I didn't like about Virgil. Everything else you said is true obviously there is more to him, I just felt that he was relevant to the point I was making. I plan to make a video on him in the future and properly analyse his career and impact. I think he is a part of the money making designer group like Kim Jones but there is definitely more to him than Kim Jones. I appreciate your comment, thanks!
Damn thank you for the response I completely agree now
“Fashion people” forget that this is all business, money making isnt inherently bad. If anything being able to make money while doing something new is the mark of genius and what most designers aim to do.
Virgil is largely dismissed by “certain crowds” of fashion because he brought a way of dress to high fashion that they were traditionally dismissive of.
@@12Arrancar I agree, and it is sometimes hard for me to separate but I try to. I'll keep my opinions on Virgil for my video but I think there is no way his impact should be dismissed.
@@fashionlover4 I personally have never liked anything Virgil Abloh had ever done and it was so refreshing to see a fashion RUclipsr not constantly slob on his knob lol
demna is a marketing genius. And he is also innovating a lot of Sillhouettes which i love about Balenciaga
your content is so informative for me trying to learn different points of view on brands and their messaging, very helpful when trying to create informed personal opinions on designers and explore their work, keep it up!
cool video man i dont really relate in some of your points but i understand the full picture of what you expect from a designer and i loved it
Thank you! I don't think there is any wrong or right answer really I just wanted to put my perspective out there
"I don't think you are blissfully unaware, I just think you don't care"
Demna started out really strong with his first Balenciaga collections (Women's FW16 and Mens SS17); you could tell he was really trying to put on his big-boy pants on and do justice to this historic couture house by trying to create a good mix between the heritage and his aesthetic (streetwear, utilitarian and uniformistic designs with couture-eque silhouettes) - it seemed like Kering gave him full creative freedom to remake the brands image at the beginning and as time went on they began exacting more control over the collections and told him what to make based on what sold best. And so the collections are becoming more basic and watered down - even the few shock-tactic gimmicks for press he does for every show are getting tired (and the elaborate sets don't help a lot either). FW20 was the last solid Balenciaga show - right before the pandemic
@kyfaydfsoab thats literally what every single human being does not just designers..
You said you dont like the big luxury brands and I think anyone that has a genuine interest in fashion can easily feel like that. The brands dont really sell their original brand identity anymore, they havent for a while. Its all about who is the head of the brand, selling what *they* do, not what the brand does. Using your example of Virgil, Lee McQ, Galliano etc. What that means is that for most of these brands, the very expensive brands are essentally very expensive diffusion lines, no wonder we arent interested much 🤷
That's a good way to put it, I honestly believe that once the main designer is done with their brand there is nothing wrong with simply ending it but obviously that's where money comes in and ruins everything. It's not all bad obviously but I'm more interested in new ideas not rehashing older ones.
In my opinion I think Demna is constantly evolving and Balenciaga will continue to SOAR under his reign 🙏🏼
honestly, I don't think you're overly idealistic. it's honestly nice to see that Gen Z creators tend to be more conscious that millennials, many of whom seem to have completely internalised late capitalism driven by consumption or the 'ironic' response to it. Also, v true about Demna... I also liked early Vetements, but the meaning has become deflated with Balenciaga. also, cool to know that you're from Ukraine originally! My grandad's family are from there.
Such a well spoken and thorough POV. I really like your content
Ironic that high fashion would take a jab at capitalism because all of there clients are people who played the capitalism game right and are winning so they can spend thousands of dollars on Gucci or whatever else.
Great message. Sure makes you think why we are promoting these brands. Especially now in the light of their latest campaign thats horrific. It does raise questions on social issues that these “luxury” brands dont give a f***k about.
pretty based video, congrats! also you made all the fashionistas pull out the essays in the comments lmfao 💀💀
Wow so glad you popped up in my feed… I’m in total agreement a last a breath of fresh air! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😍
just found ur channel and ik ur going to be big in the future much love
i love how u dont sound annoying
2 years from now I was like « demna tha genius », and Idk when I switched about him. Très bonne vidéo!
I like your videos, I agree with some of your points, but I disagree a lot on some particular things. So allow me to give a comment for the algorithm and then ramble to myself in comment form:
I understand and honestly agree with your critique of high fashion and art in general in a capitalist setting: the tendency towards monetization rather than authenticity. It's real, it's rife, and it's endemic to art on that level & variety.
I also think you're completely right about Demna & the fashion industry as a whole not taking the opportunity to stir socially conscious change or ecological improvement. But I fail to see how your alternatives are an effective or legitimate response. Particularly through the idea that Demna or other designers should stay independent to be "competitive" with larger corporations like Kering or LVMH. At a surface level you have more of an avenue for self-expression, but that's as far as you go. Artistic messaging/authenticity. Major corporations will continue to purchase other brands, supply others with better resources, copy your designs, demolish competition through ruthless oligopolization, and be parasitic on not just the arts for life on Earth itself. Your alternative towards independence is to add to the proliferation of capital, and in turn, the exploitation of the working class & its other issues.
Maybe it's a misinterpretation but your advocacy is ironic in comparison to Virgil's "You can do it too," which is essentially Virgil telling you "You can make a living off of art too."/"You can follow your dreams too." Virgil didn't tell people to screen print shirts to literally be part of off-white, he described what you want, getting people to do what they find meaningful on their own terms, as well. Though Virgil never really came off as anti-elitist (he honestly dwelled among them though coming from humble beginnings) your prescription entirely is. And I don't want to come off as an artistic and political doomer, I think people should make what they find meaningful, but aspirations of being commercial or even ranking against major brands are entirely mislead. Really, if we're all in agreement that a capitalist system is a culprit for not just this trend in art, but social/ecological/economic issues, then it's the foremost concern to change it before worrying about how to establish our work. You said it yourself, we can't just be ironic or gloomy about the suffering this begets, we need to take actionable steps.
On the superficiality of fashion/art, I wouldn't say art across the board in a capitalist setting is "sold out." I wouldn't say Death Grips is, nor Professor E, but I don't think you actually think that everything new is sold-out, maybe just art on a "high" level. Vetements *was* a reaction, but at the same time, it's a reflection because of the reaction of its consumer base: aesthetes & the elite. Vetements was critical of elitism/pretentious in a way you'd only know about if you were very interested in it, unlike the regular consumer/laborer/person because it's a thing for a certain class or type of person. You can draw the line between the pretentiousness of the elite who enjoyed exclusive & expensive high fashion of Chanel or Versace, and people who "get" the strangeness/challenging/ironic nature of Vetements or Comme Des Garçons. But isn't it clear that these artists are two different types of elitism? Maybe they're both spawned from capitalism, but one is clearly a wealth-based elitism, and the other is knowledge-based. "You don't get Vetements, that's why you can't enjoy it," is similar, but not the same as "You can't afford Gucci, that's why you can't enjoy it." This also makes me wonder, if you have an issue with either or both of those, then what's the issue with the democratization of fashion? Will the average person "dilute" the artistry? Does that really make sense? How would they do that? Did hip-hop or skate culture die when it became big? Or was there possibly more innovation and fruitful enjoyment of the arts & culture? If you don't want pretentiousness/elitism branching off of exclusivity & hierarchy, then why not welcome more people into art & culture? I understand that we all enjoy subculture & niche-ness, but holding onto the mentality that more people knowing about/participating in it is problematic can be akin to gatekeeping.
All in all, I just think that if we know the issue is capital, then alongside empowering artists to create more, we should tackle the machine that causes all sorts of issues for us. Democratization has historically, and politically been a net good for culture & art, we should approach/embrace it so we can realize its benefits. Subculture has its luster but there's simply more progress in letting in to innovate than there is to keep this art & industry exclusive.
Thanks for reading if ya did.
Wow love proper discourse on RUclips comments hahahha what's your insta handle?
Thanks for the in depth comment, I appreciate your perspective a lot!
First off I did mention a lot of topics in this video that Demna is related to but are whole topics of their own which I didn't want to go further into to keep the focus on Demna. Topics like Virgil and the democratization of Fashion which you brought up. I plan to make a separate video on Virgil so I'll keep my thoughts on him for that. And I started writing a long reply about my thoughts on democratization but I realise that I also have a lot more to say on that and I don't have time to properly formulate my thoughts and give you an answer I'm happy with. I promise I'll make a video on that as well as I feel like in a youtube comment I'll probably miss things and I want to give you a properly thought out answer.
Sorry if this seems like a shitty response but I promise in future videos I'll address your thoughts and I'm really glad you shared them, I definitely have more to think about now!
I disagree with most of the things you said (in multiple videos) but I respect you for actually taking the time to articulate your ideas and I admire how you built this small yet really strong community of ppl who actually think before commenting
Thank you! I'm just trying have fun and think out loud and I'm glad people are respecting that!
Great critique of one of the most praised in fashion
I covered fashion in Paris in the ‘80s & 90s It was a time of immense creativity and talent. The designers put creativity first and if they made money, all the better. It was probably one of the few real Golden ages of fashion. In contrast, I am very disappointed in how the industry has evolved strictly into money making machines. I am aligned with your observations. I am impressed that at your young age, you have figured out so much on your own.
PS. What we see on a catwalk is often rooted in those 6 or so big schools specializing in fashion education. Would love to hear your commentary on that subject.
Man, i would love a video about carol christian poel's uprise.
i felt like this is for a fashion course assignment
This channel is great
Not gonna lie I can listen to you talk about bricks all day and I’ll still enjoy your vids
Damn brick analysis up next
Die to be a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain…
Sidenote I do love how Balenciaga makes model's work 🤣😂. No just walking, they walk in masks, in dirt, in stupid rooms, with stupid shoes, with carrier bags, in wind and fake snow 🤣😂🤣😂. I got to say when I walk on wind, snow or muddy puddles I certainly don't walk with my head up like an alien 👽😂🤣
the best fashion youtuber, love from portugal
Agree, I'll say this and hopefully can make it concise, Balenciaga is always one to watch but are we watching for the gimmicks (which can be brilliant) or for the clothes? Re the gimp mask show you have on in the background, take away the masks, rubber tights and oversized shoes and what are you left with nothing much in terms of the clothing and the design of which. The labelling is ALL, Prada as well, the label is literally king, the garment it's sits on means much less, the same here, it's branding and glitz but little substance. That's why Galliano, Westwood and McQueen really are brilliant fashion designers whereas Demna and the massive team and resources behind him are genius marketeers for the rolex wearing brand obsessed celebrities and their followers.
A wise man once said "we become parodies of ourselves" that man was me. #YojiDiditbetter
Wouldn't necessarily agree with the Nirvana statement.
Although Nirvana was a cornerstone for a genre that seems to use music as an outlet for angst, Nevermind (which is featured on the video) is Nirvana's own attempt at comercial success-hence being the band's most successful effort. The album was, of all things, released by one of the many accolades of Interscope (owned by Universal), a major label. Nirvana could have been, at the time, the embodiment of that "rebellious" attitude but, as long as they're working for a major label, the content they produce is going to be limited by the label's own interest in releasing it.
Lyrically speaking, grunge's themes are no different than those of the many brutal genres it is contemporary to, but the sound is a lot easier to listen to. Ultimately, its popularity comes from the fact that it was a very well-marketed product. It had the "brutality" of the lyrics but it was sonically very attractive-something black metal was not, for instance. It offered every kid back then the possibility of being "rebellious" even if they were not into the "heavy stuff".
Besides, it "democratized" music, as it generally uses very simple but yet efficient compositions. Grunge denied every aspect of "high-end" heavy music: Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters" were released one month apart and, listening to it, you could sense it would take you ages to get to Metallica's level (even if that happens to be their sellout number) but you could easily get to Nirvana's-or at least it presented that idea.
Grunge was also very short-lived. It comes out of teenage rebellion, so it lasts as long as there is teenage angst. However, once overcome, there's nothing grunge can offer for both listener and musician.
So, in conclusion, Nirvana and Demna are much more similar than your statement wants to makes them. Nirvana's integrity as a band sure may come from that angsty feeling you describe as authentic and un-sellout-like, but their popularity is achieved by a process similar to that of Demna's-that both have a label behind that wants to make sure they profit off whatever it is artists produce. It is interesting you refer to Nirvana as never compromising when grunge is perceived by the heavy music community as nothing else besides selling out, mainly because they offer an easier take on heavy music subculture, "diluting it" as you say.
I believe this has to do with your generation's distance from that time (as you mention yourself), combined with Nirvana's status as a band. There's nothing wrong with that but this sort of statement tends to be more myth than actual true and it needs clarification.
I'm always not a fan of balenciaga. to me their products represent "i am so rich that i can afford to buy items that poor people wear for thousands of dollars". but ngl some of their stuff like the black reebok looking sneakers look pretty cool
Love the video, but I don’t really agree with your stance on modern artists “selling out”. There’s nothing wrong with an artist wanting to make money off of their work. Making art for arts sake is noble, but that’s just not realistic if you’re struggling to pay rent, or worrying about where your next meal’s gonna come from. At some point, you’re eventually going to need a source of income. As long as it doesn’t effect their work, I don’t mind an artist doing endorsements, getting sponsorships, or doing more interviews. In fact, I’ll even applaud it if I’ve been following them for a while.
Well I think there is a difference between selling out and making money as an artist. As I said in the video artists and even content creators should be paid for their work 100%. I personally believe in a more direct way of that happening such as through patreon and various support systems like that where the fan/consumer pays the creator/artist. Rather than having to sell items they don't care for. Endorsements are fine and I never said anything about not doing interviews?
I agree, if it doesn't effect their work and also doesn't go against what they supposedly stand for. I feel like maybe people should be more responsible with how they make their money through social media and art and recognise that influence.
I don't have a one for all answer of course but it's something that I think about a lot when it comes to how I want to monetise the content I create.
You are making me rethink a lot of this fashion shit..
Love your channel. And your principles. Keep going!
This video slaps, great job on showing perspectives
You are amazing at just talking
Great video as always! I was wondering if you could do a video on the significance of Margiela? I'm coming from the music field but more and more (through your videos) my creativity has been inspired by fashion despite how pretentious and exclusive I find it. Keep it up!
I completely agree about how annoying it is that new designers are always poached by bigger brands. It sucks seeing someone on the come up just for them to end up at dior or something. W vid keep it up
You keep saying, there’s no Art, but have you not considered that your taste of art is just different to what is trendy right now?
Great video, but I don’t see Demna’s irony as nihilistic, but more accelerationist in tendency
Interesting idea, I guess that would be quite a long term play for him to do. I think we'll only really know once we see how his entire career turns out but I don't think he's trying to speedrun capitalism, I can't see what he's doing helping long term unless he shifts his message.
@@fashionlover4 I think when brands succeed in obscuring the lines in high fashion and do things similar to Balenciaga (whether they have an anti-capitalist message or not), they’re also succeeding in accelerating and basically taking apart the fashion system as a whole and sort of imagining a different world. Even with the profit motive and blatant cash grabs, I think Demna is still doing something profound. I don’t think you’re exactly wrong though; I just think it’s a matter of perspective. Great vid and channel tho I can’t wait to see you grow larger!
Love your videos❤ thank you for creating these interesting discussions!
There seems to be not that much indept info about Demna on the internet. This video was interesting, someone knows other sources about demna?
You should do a video on Yeezy for sure as I feel like Kanye takes a lot of inspiration from Demna while at the same time being different. He's not "high fashion" per say but I think he's interesting and an integral figure none the less.
Literally my next video how did you know
@@fashionlover4 well you were talking about how Demna sold his soul to a conglomerate and I feel like Ye actually built his own empire instead of going to a conglomerate. He made smart decisions by collaborating with Gap and Adidas to get the means of production he wanted to produce his stuff on a higher scale. Plus he and Demna just recently collabed on Yeezy Gap Balenciaga which in a way democratized fashion (although I wouldn't call it "high fashion"). To me Kanye still has pride in what he does and continues to at least be interesting and divisive in the fashion community as an outsider and clearly has inspired Virgil, Demna and Rubchinsky to an extent.
11:28 depends on what 'sustainableeee' factors are taken into account. It's all creative accounting
Such an amazing and realistic perspective
i really enjoyed this take even if i dont completely agree
Hey thanks for watching anyway! It's definitely a topic that I go back and forth on a lot.
You don’t need demna or balenciaga to make trash
I agree with you 100%
so happy i found ur channel
Incredible video essay, automatic sub
I learn so much from these videos, honestly really good content
Whenever big fashion houses claim to be environmentally conscious, my eyes roll. LVHM was found to have been one of the top corporations responsible for deforestation in the Amazon and people just don’t care?
I get a sense that those who have no money, tend to think that everybody else is doing everything for the money and profit. I honestly disagree. As a creative myself, I feel so much of creative energy and a TONE of inspiration in Demnas collections, maybe because I am Eastern European and can relate with him a little deeper, or maybe i just have a bad taste in fashion LOL
This kind of "woke" argument is always around capitalism, sellout and elitism then reject whoever seems on the side of it😂
Like who's really the pure rebel, who's really the anti system? Even Nirvana did commercial and pop thing.
And actually Demna really make the runway more entertaining and interesting with those "weird" design. Balenciaga has been doing avant garde thing since long time ago.
Another great fashion lover post!
Great narration