Dave, this is a fantastic video! You've researched and shared so many details that I had long forgotten. You've also presented it all in an informative and well-paced manner. I deeply respect your dedication to preserving information like this. On a personal level, your video brought tears to my eyes due to the nostalgic trigger of my emotions. I would like to mention an additional step in the development process that was not mentioned. That was our taking the disk with the binary to another 8032 that was dedicated to burning EEPROMs. We would burn our binary onto an EEPROM and put it into a socketed game cartridge. Then return to our desk to try it on the C64. Kudos and thank you for your dedication.
Hi Jeff!! I’m thrilled that you watched and enjoyed this video, and I’m incredibly grateful that you allowed me to create it. You’ve been amazingly kind to me over the years and I hope we can meet again.
Amazing video, Dave! As a software-developer myself I always wondered how they did it back then. I can only imagine how much time and effort you put into this really historical video. They were real hero-coders back then with much concentration and patience. Thank you very much for making this video!
I had seen user port cross-communication before for development between C64s before, but never C64 and PET. This is really cool to see these tools in action as they were 40 years ago.
I love your channel! As a collector of the old CBM/PET-machines, it's like paradise. ;) Still looking for a 9010 Modem and an MMF9000 (SuperPet in USA). But they are very hard to come by. Best regards from Germany, Matthias
Fascinating! Although I haven't researched the matter, I have been wondering aloud for a few years now about the sorts of development environments used by C64 devs back in the '80s.
That was a nice idea and well explained. I really liked Wizard of Wor on the C64 back then a lot. And now that I know the Arcade version I must say it's a really well done port! Btw, comment 64 yey =D
One of the best C64 videos I've ever seen in a long time. Any chance we can get a video of how C64 development was done via VAX system? Or was that pretty much the same as the PET DEV workflow?
I wrote a ton of assembler on the C64 and never considered 40 cols much of a limitation given the short mnemonic instruction set. It avoids that hellishly slow transmission process each time you want to test. Can see the benefits in the Pet as a dev "environment" though, it's similar to how people used an Amstrad when they wanted to do Spectrum dev but that's largely due to the horrific rubber keypad on the Speccy.
Agreed. I was fine using the C64 back then with 40 cols, but I didn't have a choice. The transmission process would have likely been faster but I ended up copying way more RAM over than I needed to. Good point on the keyboard of the speccy. Same would have applied to the Commodore Max or C116 :)
Wonderful. Said it countless times, the C64 version is to my mind superior to the actual arcade cabinet version (which I have because of the C64 version being a big part of my childhood). Do you have any idea when we may get to see the source for this?
Jeff has not yet given me permission to publicly release his original source code. When he does, it will be uploaded to the Internet Archive along with all the other Commodore items I preserve: archive.org/details/@dave64wayback
I’m sorry I cannot. I mentioned in the video that Jeff has not yet given me permission to publicly release his original source code. Everything else he gave me has been preserved, and this eventually will also be.
oh i'm pretty sure commodore knew about the vic-switch products and 488 to serial converters as they also sold them under their own name. :P so why bother having separate diskdrives for the target system :P oh and eh. hooking 2 userports together directly... isn't a smart idea. but hey. they would have plenty spare chips to blow up :P
I wouldn't worry about hooking the user port up like this -- It's literally what they were designed for. I'd worry more about plugging a joystick in -- the static off your fingers might kill the SID!
@@bozimmerman no... it's not literally what they have designed it for... :P and commodore systems really don't like being phantom fed dc over a 6522 or 6526 while the c64 is off. as in seriously don't like it.
hooking 2 systems together like that requires additional chips or optocouplers or things like that. you can hook up a -printer- like that because a -printer- will never send an output to an output or try to feed the computer while the computer is not feeding it.
oh and joysticks don't connect anything to the sid adc pins (ok those coleco gemini ones with built in paddles might, and maybe those sega things, but the latter outright short circuit stuff anyway ;))
oh well go right ahead :P if you have plenty of spare 6526'es around :P why not :P LOL. (heck we tried such things a lot when they were still available, and blew up a plenty of em ;)
Dave, this is a fantastic video! You've researched and shared so many details that I had long forgotten. You've also presented it all in an informative and well-paced manner. I deeply respect your dedication to preserving information like this. On a personal level, your video brought tears to my eyes due to the nostalgic trigger of my emotions.
I would like to mention an additional step in the development process that was not mentioned. That was our taking the disk with the binary to another 8032 that was dedicated to burning EEPROMs. We would burn our binary onto an EEPROM and put it into a socketed game cartridge. Then return to our desk to try it on the C64.
Kudos and thank you for your dedication.
Hi Jeff!! I’m thrilled that you watched and enjoyed this video, and I’m incredibly grateful that you allowed me to create it. You’ve been amazingly kind to me over the years and I hope we can meet again.
WOW
Lol I love the energy and enthusiasm in this channel
I had another commenter on a previous video tell me how annoying I am. I obviously prefer your take on the matter, so thank you for the kind words.
If I couldn't care less about Commodore, I'd still watch Dave's videos because it's obvious how much he loves the topic.
Amazing video, Dave! As a software-developer myself I always wondered how they did it back then. I can only imagine how much time and effort you put into this really historical video. They were real hero-coders back then with much concentration and patience. Thank you very much for making this video!
My gods, I loved this game back in the day when I was 7. And I still friggin' do! ❤
I had seen user port cross-communication before for development between C64s before, but never C64 and PET. This is really cool to see these tools in action as they were 40 years ago.
Awesome! I can't believe what level of patience we had back then!
Excellent video - I was always curious how games were developed back in the day, Thanks!
You have great instinct in knowing the subject matter your subscribers crave! Great video, really tickled my interest.
I really appreciate the kind feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Excellent content idea and very well done, thank you. It's much clearer to see how development was done back then than to read about it.
Thanks for watching and thank you for the positive feedback!
outstanding. I did some games programming on the TRS-80 in Z-80 assembly. This brings back the good old days.
Great video! I love the development setup, PET + C64, parallel data transfer, just Awesome :)
Love it. Such an awesome piece of history. Thanks!
I love your channel! As a collector of the old CBM/PET-machines, it's like paradise. ;) Still looking for a 9010 Modem and an MMF9000 (SuperPet in USA). But they are very hard to come by. Best regards from Germany, Matthias
Hi Matthias, thank you!! You just made my day. It’s always good to know someone appreciates what I do.
Fascinating! Although I haven't researched the matter, I have been wondering aloud for a few years now about the sorts of development environments used by C64 devs back in the '80s.
This is the best edutainment video, I've seen in a long time. Kudos to you for making it!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for the nice comment
I'd like to hear more about how a Vax was eventually used as the build environment, even if it can't be demonstrated.
Neat idea! I’ll see what I can come up with.
That was a nice idea and well explained. I really liked Wizard of Wor on the C64 back then a lot. And now that I know the Arcade version I must say it's a really well done port! Btw, comment 64 yey =D
One of the best C64 videos I've ever seen in a long time. Any chance we can get a video of how C64 development was done via VAX system? Or was that pretty much the same as the PET DEV workflow?
A VAX video might be neat. I’ll see what I can do. Thank you so much for the kind words!
Great video! Thank you.
Great video!
This is such a great video. Subscribed now on both of my accounts. I love that hi-res WOW on the C64
Thanks for the sub! I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
I wrote a ton of assembler on the C64 and never considered 40 cols much of a limitation given the short mnemonic instruction set. It avoids that hellishly slow transmission process each time you want to test. Can see the benefits in the Pet as a dev "environment" though, it's similar to how people used an Amstrad when they wanted to do Spectrum dev but that's largely due to the horrific rubber keypad on the Speccy.
Agreed. I was fine using the C64 back then with 40 cols, but I didn't have a choice. The transmission process would have likely been faster but I ended up copying way more RAM over than I needed to. Good point on the keyboard of the speccy. Same would have applied to the Commodore Max or C116 :)
Wonderful. Said it countless times, the C64 version is to my mind superior to the actual arcade cabinet version (which I have because of the C64 version being a big part of my childhood). Do you have any idea when we may get to see the source for this?
I wanted to see how you save onto the C64 disk, but very cool video. I subscribed. All good wishes.
Thanks for the sub!
Where can that source code be obtained, if possible?
Jeff has not yet given me permission to publicly release his original source code. When he does, it will be uploaded to the Internet Archive along with all the other Commodore items I preserve: archive.org/details/@dave64wayback
And now you know why the Unix and GNU linkers are called "ld" (for "load")...
👍
Hello, can you post link for download source code please?
I would try to do same
I’m sorry I cannot. I mentioned in the video that Jeff has not yet given me permission to publicly release his original source code. Everything else he gave me has been preserved, and this eventually will also be.
@@commodorehistory Oh sorry, it's nice as same, may i ask you if you own some FPGA devices for do same on that?
Bizarre decision by Jeff to not to let the 40 year old source code to be uploaded to the internet !
oh i'm pretty sure commodore knew about the vic-switch products and 488 to serial converters as they also sold them under their own name. :P so why bother having separate diskdrives for the target system :P oh and eh. hooking 2 userports together directly... isn't a smart idea. but hey. they would have plenty spare chips to blow up :P
I wouldn't worry about hooking the user port up like this -- It's literally what they were designed for. I'd worry more about plugging a joystick in -- the static off your fingers might kill the SID!
@@bozimmerman no... it's not literally what they have designed it for... :P and commodore systems really don't like being phantom fed dc over a 6522 or 6526 while the c64 is off. as in seriously don't like it.
hooking 2 systems together like that requires additional chips or optocouplers or things like that. you can hook up a -printer- like that because a -printer- will never send an output to an output or try to feed the computer while the computer is not feeding it.
oh and joysticks don't connect anything to the sid adc pins (ok those coleco gemini ones with built in paddles might, and maybe those sega things, but the latter outright short circuit stuff anyway ;))
oh well go right ahead :P if you have plenty of spare 6526'es around :P why not :P LOL. (heck we tried such things a lot when they were still available, and blew up a plenty of em ;)
Why use the 8032 for 3 of the 4 steps? Why not a C64 for the entire process?
Hi Martian, I covered that in the video
1:23 tells the relevant reasons