Does Christianity make wives "ripe for abuse”?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- I disagree. More importantly, I can show why Scripture, which would protect wives from abuse, is often ignored. I would go so far as to say that Christianity would protect wives from such abuse and encourage them to take recourse in self-protection if the Bible is applied to their situation. It may be that the problem we often see is not too much Bible, it's too little Bible.
My website BibleThinker.org
Husbands have to submit to Christ. Women have nothing to fear from a man who submits to Christ.
Well said.
Agreed. Thankyou for saying this.
Very true
You hit the nail on the head :)
That does leave:
Believing wives married to abusive unbelieving husbands.
Believing husbands married to abusive unbelieving wives.
Abusive unbelievers married to each other.
Believers with different convictions married to each other.
I counseled a young woman about this many years ago. Her husband had been hitting her and had put a gun to her head threatening to kill her. I told her to call the police and get away from him which she did. We were told we were wrong. I am so thankful you have brought this to light so that those in abusive relationships can have biblical hope of a better future without the abuser in their lives.
OK, let me be frank here, there are times to call the police. The issue is, often police have little incentive to de-escalate the situation (or just escalate it further). Sometimes, people get killed by police for things they really shouldn't have.
Unless things are really, really bad, I'd suggest calling a trusted Christian brother who might "knock" some sense into the abusive husband.
Again, there are times to call the police, but there are also times to not call the police.
@@acem82 None of what the original poster said should point to not calling the police.
No Christian brother can knock sense into another who is abusing his wife. If that person is not willing to be teachable and change they will not do anything the brothers say or “knock” I
into them.
Glad you talked to her and she got away. Many don’t. I am glad I did and your friend too.
@@simonedishelle6720 Yes, the OP didn't say that. I did.
I can.
If I can't, why do you think the police can?
All I'm saying is be careful calling the police; they can make things worse than they were. If you need to to protect yourself, then do it!
@@acem82 I’m sorry…excuse me?! I’m sorry, but I’m pretty sure nothing can be escalated any further than someone putting a gun to your head and threatening to kill you. What the police can do that you can’t is that they have the *legal rights* to use lethal force. If you are going to consider “defending” yourself, then you might as well call the police because once it hits that point, then a lot of the times it leads to the worst outcome. The only difference with letting the police handle it is that you won’t be in danger of going to court, being sued, and being put in jail. The reason the police *can* and *you can’t* is because they have all the resources at their disposal and legal backing to use it. Not every state in America has a “stand your ground” law and will charge you with 1st degree murder. Once it gets to that point, there is nothing the police can do to make it worse. Not to mention that if you try to involve someone else *instead* of the police, then can be charged for assault and jailed. Your method of handling domestic abuse is reckless and could end up putting more people in danger of being hurt or killed themselves, *not excluding yourself or the woman being abused* .
the fact that ppl need to be told that calling the police on someone, even your husband, who's physically abusing you, isn't disobedience is scary.
Agreed, I hope more Christians realize that they are worth protecting.
I Agree. Unfortunately, blind submission to wicked men is a belief held by many Christians.
Right? If a donkey could be helped out of a hole on the Sabbath, then a spouse should have protection. God has shown time after time that he desires mercy, not sacrifice, yet some people have no problem sacrificing a fellow believer’s welfare in order to be perceived as more godly.
@@tobytootimes7639 yup mainly the "progressive Christians"
And that's not limited to a Christian household. That's the nature of an abusive relationship.
One result of the abuse is that you are left feeling in fear of causing the abuser to get upset again.
As an exwife of an elder, abuse was certainly used under the control of twisting scriptures. Including submit, and the abuser favorite, "forgive and FORGET or God will not forgive you". Thank you for bringing this to light and showing the issue with the ones that CHOOSE to use the bible as abuse.
That’s called narcissism. And sadly there’s a LOT of narcissists in the church! One really has to watch out for them, and verse yourself and know narcissism and what it is or else you won’t catch it.
😢
There’s a lot of narcissism in society these days thanks to the world’s standardization of it. But yep I’m there too.
@@EphemeralProductions they hide there narcissistic personally.
Woah that's dark.
My sister was sent to the hospital with a concussion by her husband. She left with their son. Her church pushed her away for divorcing him, he is now the youth pastor there. There was the expectation because he said "sorry" for her to jump right back, he did not go to therapy or make proper restitutions, but the church wanted her to forgive and forget. They treated her as the sinner for not going back.
The premarital counseling my husband and I received was filled with the idea of always submitting in all things. Very much following the Dugger families ideology. I was told it was unhealthy for me to handle the budget as a women with a business background. Good intentioned people gave terrible advice, and It took many years and many therapists to undo that, and workout healthy submission.
The irony is that budgeting for the home is a traditionally feminine role in many cultures, many of which are Christian. It makes sense because the wife/mother is the one preparing most of the meals and is in charge of daily maintenance around the home. She knows better than anyone how much money the household needs on a day to day basis. I hope you found a church that has a proper complimentarian view.
The church shouldn't have done that, I'm sorry to hear that happened. Women and men should never have to face abuse from their spouse that they should trust. Tell your sister that this stranger feels for her plight and though there is nothing I can physically do to help, that I am on her side. Even if the church is not.
@@_n_a-ez5pc I second your sentiments.
Well done in working out proper submission. This is extremely valuable, and I strongly suggest you share anything helpful you've learned with others in the Body who struggle with this. It's way too important to leave to the armchair quarterbacks who don't know what they're talking about. God bless you both.
It’s sounds like they never read Proverbs 31. “She considers a field and buys it…”. Sounds like the Almighty honours women who are prudent and display business acumen. “Honour her for all that her hands have done, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.” (Proverbs 31:31)
This is a huge problem! He tried to kill me three times before I was ready for divorce for the safety of my family including him! The worst part is that I took my pastor’s advice and sent all threatening letters to my sister. She burned them in her wood stove because she believes that once married always married. Then he told them lies about me and they believed him without question. The last place to look for help when you’re being abused is generally church people.
@Kate Moore satan goes to church, too! Ask what policies they have in place to protect people, especially the abused.
Mike.... please talk about psychological and emotional abuse these are just as harmful and ungodly as physical abuse. Take a look at narcissistic abuse and how mental health issues impact domestic abuse
Thank you 🙏♥️🙏
My father was a monster and our church absolutely failed us growing up. They basically told my mother to persevere in the face of abuse, then the elders ejected my father from the congregation when the abuse continued. After that, they felt they had done all they could do (other than tell my mother that this was God's test for her to continuue to submit and suffer). Eventually, my father beat my brother to the point of brain damage and very nearly death and then commanded my mother to tell the police that she did it. She didn't, he went to jail for child abuse and attempted murder and our church all turned their backs on us (all the better to gossip about us). It has given me a very complicated relationship with my fellow Christians, and a very skeptical viuew of anyone who asserts that wives must submit to their husbands even when their husbands fail miserably in their own obligations to lead sacrifically, a view I have no patience for.
Thats so incredibly sad. I'm so sorry. I pray God will showcase a healthy example of a husband and wife relationship and how true love acts.
@@denisequinn9015 That is the opinion a decent, modern person would hold. Historically though, that has not been the majority interpretation, and unfortunately not every modern Christian is decent. Also, other Christians, in my experience seem to feel they had limited options other than "ask him to stop" when a husband proves to be less than decent. And when my father told the elders he didn't want their advice on how to "lead" his family, they made a point of lkettiung my mom know that divorce was not an option that he was the head of her, and that her only recourse was to trust in the Lord. The latter is generally good advice, but it didn't stop the beatings or save my brother. Secular authorities stopped my father and only after my brother was permanently impaired for life. And then, I think, it just felt "awkward" for the people in our congregation and so they made it clear we made them uncomfortable. So, again, I'm wary of "submission" and of Christians who push that on families. If a woman marries a monster, demanding her submission is monstrous, and wishing that her husband were not a monster, because the Bible can be interpreted to say that a husband _should_ not be a monster, well, that is basically useless.
As a mature Christian, you are less likely to make a poor decision, but a less mature Chrstian may not choose so wisely. For women, this may mean allowing many years of emotional abuse because we are taught to respect our husband, and we fear that others will not believe us if we seek help. It can keep women in captivity (in fear).
The man in this video doesn't care about those people.
Physical abuse is very obvious, emotional or spiritual abuse is not as obvious to outsiders and harder to point out to the husband or wife.
One of the best points made at 6.50. I agree with you, Mike, that abuse isn't something to be tolerated in Christian marriage, but I think Christian teachers and more mature followers can be so misled in this area. There is so much misperception that forgiveness means reconciliation and trusting God means the relationship will improve, and if you're a good wife, you will give your husband what he wants, when he wants it - however you feel. Terrible advice, imo.
This is refreshing to hear. I grew up in a dysfunctional home. I lived through poverty and domestic violence as a child.
Oh my goodness. My non Christian step father used that line on me. And guess what? Yep he was abusive. My mom and I stayed in a shelter to get away from him.
As a good man, you would NEVER do anything to harm anyone, much less your wife or kids. Submission to your husband should be an act of complete trust because he has your best interests at heart. And any married man knows that his decisions are based on what his wife desires, balanced against what is best for the family.
That’s the ideal, & that’s God’s will, but many people don’t behave in ways that honor God or their spouses.
That's not generally what happens though. Unfortunately people who have the power struggle with their pride and egos. While the woman have to TRUST. When they complain about the unfairness we are told we are being selfish and wanting power. It's sad even good men fail at this.
That's why women have an issue with this. It's sad because we DO crave someone to take care of us then experience things that are damaging but then are told we are being sinful. It's not a good place to be.
I'm NOTsaying all men are bad-- It's HUMANS humans are bad, men just are the ones who have been given the power
Mike so happy you have as a Christian man addressed this. It needed to be done ✅
I think we have to be very careful when saying that if you are saved you will have better judgment on whom to marry . That doesn’t leave space for a man falling away or at the beginning the man has a biblical view but after years of being able to be powerful over someone they then become abusive, by saying woman would have better judgment it kind of comes back to it being their fault because they should have better judgment. I love you Mike and have such great respect for ministry, it has been a blessing to me in so meany ways, however in this instance I feel it is rather narrow which perhaps comes with age and experience. god bless you in all you do, in love ❤️🏴
I have seen and suffered abuse from men and spiritual abuse by some leaders in churches over the years. The excuses laid out by abusers and those leaders who refuse to receive reports of abuse and call abusers to account is sickening. Looking back, many of those same leaders are the very ones who practiced spiritual abuse in an effort to stay in their place of authority and power in the church.
I'm so grateful for messages like you bring here Mike, and pray God will use it to strengthen the weak and setting them free from false guilt, and that it convict those who need to repent and submit to be held to account for their actions. It's so important that our relationships are ones of living as Christ loved us and not like those of the world.
Those who use that argument forget the other side of the argument ... husbands, love your wives.
That needs to be said just as much as preaching Proverbs 31 and wives are to submit.
My ex was physically abusive. It goes both ways. When I remarried, I had to get a restraining order against her.
It definitely does. I think physical abuse from the male is more common, yes, but it absolutely still happens the other way around. And when it does, the man often feels totally helpless because he knows if he tells or tries to get help, he'll be mocked at the very least, probably not believed, etc. and he can't defend himself AT ALL, like, he can't even restrain her in many cases because it can so, so easily be turned around on him. I know a guy that's going through something like that right now - it's mostly mental and emotional abuse from her, but sometimes it's physical also, and a couple times he's had to block her from harming him by like, putting his arm out in from of him, holding her back, pushing her off him, things like that - and at least a couple of those times, she fell or something and then threatened to accuse him of hurting her and ruin his life. She's completely evil and treats him horribly, it's awful to watch. We're all trying desperately to get him to leave her, but so far he hasn't. I'm not sure if he's afraid she'll kill herself, kill him, if he just thinks he can still fix her, who knows. But it's terrible. Women can be just as cruel, that's for sure. I also know a man whose ex girlfriend (while they were together) raped him and then said she was going to accuse HIM of rape, and he was lucky to have had his friend on the phone who had started recording the argument, unbeknownst to her, so she wasn't able to get him arrested for something he never did, but otherwise she could have.
Point is, sociopaths and narcissists/abusers come in all kinds, for sure.
Yes, I was abused in terrible marriage and as a guy reporting it made the breakup and divorce way more complicated after ending up in the hospital. The church didn’t know what to make of it either.
@@oakspro2998 I made sure I documented everything she did. Bruises, bite marks, etc. I saw a doc I knew who lived out of town.
After the bites, I saw him he took photos, (same with the bruises.) Then I served her.
In the uk around 56% of men never report violent abuse from their wives. They have been getting away with it for decades. Women are not all they seem
@@zzevonplant I hope that man escapes that abusive situation. Absolutely horrible that people treat their spouses this way.
The other half of the instructions that Pastor Winger alluded to inclused that a husband is to love and support his wife. No form of abuse complies with the instruction.
Man, the next woman in ministry video is teasing us like no other. I'm ready for it!!! The waiting is killing me! 😆
Yes!! Hope he's feeling better and there's some other less serious reason for the delay...
Yes!!! Everytime I get a notification im like YES! Only to see a short or a different topic. The suspense is enough to drive you bonkers 🤣
Sorry for the delay! He's still recovering. Once his cough is a bit less persistent he'll be able to teach the next Women in Ministry lesson. He has it ready to go! ~Staff
You know Mike got covid, right? He's been really sick. that's why there has been a delay.
@@lesliewells1062 yes I know and I pray he feels back to 💯 percent soon. COVID is no fun.
I believed very strongly in the husband being head of household and submission to him as God commanded. Boy, was I taken for a ride. After 20 years and several wrestling bouts with God, I divorced my husband. I will live the rest of my life single. I've had enough abuse for a lifetime. My husband was a Christian also. I used to ask him how he could justify to God the way he treated me. He would just look at me as if I didn't know what I was talking about. Let me make it clear that after the divorce, I did not and do not feel condemned by God for doing so. Yes, I strongly believe the bible gives men an authority that some will exercise to brutal, mentally and emotionally scarring ways for the wife. My husband was intensely passive aggressive and controlling and everyone in the church thought he was the very best. So many women told me I was so lucky to have a husband like him. :{ All were shocked when we divorced.
Impressions can be sooo misleading. I actually agree with your first sentence - not sure if you've come to change your mind on that yourself. But submission *as God commanded* includes *not* submitting to bullying or abusive behaviour. I hope you're ok now. It's such a horrible thing to go through, particularly when you're misunderstood by others 🙏💔❤️🩹
@@elizabethryan2217 Thank you, Elizabeth! Your words are kind and comforting. I do still believe that the husband should be the head of house and wives should submit but I also believe that men should be loving and respectful of their wives. There would be so much harmony, joy and peace in the home if love prevailed through all marital trials. I was the only one who tried everything in my power to make the marriage work. It took many years and tears before I realized that nothing I did was going to make it work. I love the Lord with all my heart and he knows that. I know God was ok with what I did. He saw all that I put into it but it was destroying me. I am content alone and focusing on my walk. All is well with my soul. What else matters? God bless you!
@@debbievermilyea4037 yes I agree with that, and I understand where your heart is right now. It's good that you're content. I do feel that so many well meaning Christians unwittingly encourage sincere believers to do the very thing that perpetuates the problem. "Love" and "forgive" by being "nice", allowing - and thus, enabling - the behaviour, without holding it to account. It's done a lot of damage 💔 🥺
I am sorry for what how you treated.
The Bible was written by sexist middle Eastern men who didn't know what a germ or an atom was.
My former pastor was and probably still is being abused by his wife. Who is a childhood friend of mine.
My husband attempted the spiritual abuse. He’s head of the house, I’m supposed to listen to him. I put a stop to that. Told him when he led us in prayer and devotions, and stopped putting things on me that he should be doing, then we’d talk about it. The only role of authority he wanted was over me. Not happening. Thirty four years later he finally has his head on straight. Never once did I give in to him.
You really shouldn't post this kind of thing on the internet about your spouse. This is not the Christian way.
There are men that do this and they can change. Simple. And he’s a good husband now.
@@dantheman909 it’s anonymous. No one knows who either of them are. As for the rest of us, it is informative. We can read this and know how different people handle situations. IT would be quite different if she bragged to all her friends and family how she “straightened that ol’ boy out.”
Christianity is the answer, not the problem. By going away from Christian marriage it has utterly destroyed both men and women and the institution of marriage itself is in jeapardy as a result.
Agreed
I hope you feel better soonest! Love your ministry sir. I remember my stepfather abusing and cheating on my mother and I swore I’d never be that man.
I grew up in an emotionally abusive household and married a man with the same tendencies (he grew up in the same church, also in an emotionally abusive household) we are struggling so badly with how to judge and navigate a healthy marriage. Our church did not make it clear what a healthy relationship looks like, and the elders lack discernment to the extreme. They blame and condemn people for any sin that comes to light and embrace the lie that presenting a happy household as a witness to the world is more important than actually living a God-centered life. Sometimes things have to get messy in a Christian's life. That is not God judging you, it's just a consequence of a fallen world. It makes me sick facing the hard work me and my husband are in for, because it's SO different from what we were made to expect and I am intimidated. But I have to get it right if I want to be obedient to God, even if my own church doesn't understand. I am praying God will align my husband's heart and mine so we can shake off those bad expectations, I can learn to have a voice and my husband can learn to listen and lead us🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Hi Peach, it's Just Peachy here 😆. Sorry you're going through that. I went through something similar in my marriage. We're now separated which is for the best. I'll be praying for clarity for you 🙏
In my marriage, I was (by far) the less mature one. I had no good example of what a good husband was, quite the opposite actually. When we had a conflict I would refrain from passing judgment on the accusations of my wife against me, but instead would pray for God to help me see if there was any truth to them. Usually I began convinced that there was no basis for what she said, but I prayed anyways. Thank God for answered prayer.
When the Lord would lift the scales from my eyes, and I could see what my problem was, I would pray into it, tell my wife about it, and ask her to pray for me, that the Lord would free me from my sin. I would especially ask for prayer (and pray myself) for the Lord to reveal the underlying problem that leads to me sinning in that particular way. Sometimes I would fast as well, in order to get a breakthrough. Once I could see the underlying issue, I knew that I cannot change it, according to Jeremiah 13:23. Then I would start praying for the Lord to heal me in this area, and truly change my heart. I've done this many times for many things, and the Lord is able to reveal and heal. I became a much better husband, and one day I will join her in Heaven. Although I have been at this for many years, I am still wrestling with my flesh, and I am still looking to my God to keep changing me to be more like Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6 is a comfort to me, and should be to all who struggle with sin. I hope this helps, God bless you both in your journey.
We should be submitting to each other in marriage. We should not tolerate any level of abuse. Especially physical abuse. At that point you've forfitted your right to have any authority in marriage. The fact this has to be said is scary
Being a good Christian wife is also calling out on their husband for bad behavior. So yes, for his growth, call the cops. Safety, is of course, primary reason. But really, call on your church community for help, anyone that will influence your husband for godly growth even if it isn't necessarily physical abuse. Keep him accountable. Not just for your sake, but also for his.
My point, reaching outward for help does not make someone a bad wife.
Submit to your husband only if he's operating within the context of the scripture. Submitting mindlessly and blindly opens up the wife for any form of abuse or sin. Marriage can't work if only one is following God's teachings while the other one is following his own rules and principles that benefits his own selfish desire. A professing Christian that is not submitting to God's laws and commands is still considered an unbeliever.
💯💯💯
I think the Bible clearly teaches that believing wives are supposed to submit to even unbelieving husband e
This is exactly what I’m talking about, did you just skip the entire section regarding submission to an unbelieving husband? Or was it simply not taught to you? Wow we really get this wrong in todays Church.
@@jessethomas3979
Im thinking "submit" in the bible, regarding marriage, means to for the wife to "defer to" the husbands leadership decisions.
In modern vernacular we might think of "submit" as to bow down to... To be at a slave master's beck and call and every whim .... 'Or else!'.
But, here i think it means a chain of command regarding who has the final responsibility for choosing decisions that impact the marriage.
The wife's role is supportive and advisory.
She is like the company manager who the company owner relies on for recommendations and carrying things out.
Or like the an assistant coach to the head coach, Or as in a military chain of command.
They husband and wife are supposed to function as a team, working together for the best interests of their spouse, and of the marriage itself.
We need to submit unless our husbands ask us to do something sinful. We can also flee abuse. However, we need to remember that we are sinners married to sinners. Our husbands will never perfectly obey the command to love their wives and wives will never perfectly obey the command to submit.
No abuse should be tolerated. The abusive person doesn’t necessarily have to hit to control or manipulate the other. When there are no more opportunities to have a healthy, peaceful, harmonious relationship without fear because the abused has done all they can in their own life to heal the relationship with counsel of the wise and relationship therapy, even if they go on their own, or if both go through the process of healing the relationship but the abusive dynamic still operates, then that should be grounds for divorce. If the abused person’s mental health is debilitated long term because of the behaviour of the abusive partner’s behaviour, even without physical harm, then for the sake of the life of the abused person divorce may be the only way to survive. If the abuse is towards a child/other family member then that should be grounds for immediate separation at least. Pastor Mike, please be more clear by what you mean by “extreme abuse” and also see what it is like when a marriage is miserable because of one partner’s poor disposition that erodes away at the other person’s soul in spite of their consistent attempts to make things right. Why should children suffer while the abusive parent/stepparent is given lenience in hope that they will become less abusive? I wonder if there needs to be more of a focus on the damage being done while a relationship is in reparations rather than a survey of extreme abuse to determine whether a couple should reside together short term or longterm.
Great comment. And I especially agree with your last point. More honest discussion needs to be done about the consequences of abuse (ex. how it damages children's view of relationships). I also don't understand why some Christians avoid addressing the reality of people being killed by their abusive spouses
I think the problem is if only one side of the couple is living the Christian life in marriage, which is why the bible calls us to be equally yoked. If only the wife is following the Christian teaching, she may submit to a cruel, loveless man who won't honour her, which is abusive. If only the man is following the Christian teaching, he will honour and love his wife with her not respecting him which will cause friction in the relationship.
I don't entirely agree. Yes you shouldn't be equally yoked but even with a Christian spouse there will be times where you are called to respect and submit a person that just doesn't seem to have earned that or love a woman that is acting completely and wholly unlovable, and it is hard to apply God's wisdom while looking at marriage from a worldly perspective. It's hard to explain. I''m married to a man who came from a very dysfunctional and abuse background with LOTS of substance abuse. He found Christ before we got married but that didn't mean that all the nonsense he learned was undone. There were times that were VERY HARD, but I had to find a balance of respecting him as my husband and submitting to him as long as he was not walking outside of the bounds of what I knew God said was right. And when he was, praying for Him and calling a spade a spade (without being disrespectful) and trusting God with the fall out. It hasn't always gone perfectly but I can see how God has used it all to change us both. For me to better understand forgiveness and trust in Him and to convict and change my husband. We get so fearful of being taken advantage of that we don't walk as Christ called us to. And sometimes we want so desperately to walk the way we should, but we try to do it in our own strength leaning to our own understanding without fully inviting God in. Being unequally yoked makes it worse (or thinking you're with a sold out Christian who turns out to be a nominal one at best), but God allowed the union for some purpose, and I think it's easy to lose sight of the fact that marriage is bigger than our difficulties
I think it is far worse for the woman believer than man believer in unequally yoked relationship because a lot easier to lead than submit. Many leaders will not put same restrictions they put on the ones to submit to them and the ones to submit cannot do anything about what the leader does or does not do while the wife has to submit, even if she has a 102 fever and the husband wants the wife to watch the kids so he can have time with the boys or go grocery shopping when she just had surgery, or when something happens to him physically, he demands she misses a funeral to her immediate family member because he refuses someone else to stay with him.
Myself, 46, never been married, but had a few boyfriends before, including currently, but I won't marry just anyone. A lot of husbands will make submission more challenging than it is.
@@holyexperience1976 I agree it is far worse to have a tyrannical husband than a rebellious wife, but I don’t think it’s fair to say it is easier to lead than submit in general tbf. In a lot of situations it is easier to lead, and in a lot it is harder, so it probably needs more nuance.
You are making the assumption that an unbeliever will be a poor spouse simply because they are an unbeliever. 😳🙁🙁
@@judylloyd7901 I don't think that's what it is. I think he's saying that the difference in worldview will make the two have difficulties in marriage
I recommend reading The Great Sex Rescue - Lies You've Been Taught and How to Reclaim sex as God Intended. It shows how bible verses are sometimes badly taught and how that harms women.
Think also about what it would do to make the issue of submission as a wife, clear and easy to obey, if the husband took seriously the biblical command for all Christians, to submit ourselves, one to another? That would apply to Christians in a marriage, too. It isn't exactly the same kind of submission, but it would greatly assure her that she wasn't just making herself a doormat for his desires to rule. It would make so much difference, to be married to someone who had it in his heart, to take the word of God, seriously, not just use it as a pretext to live life as a "playboy", being catered to in every way. If Jesus didn't act like a strutting king, but was as a servant, this matters in their lives, too, as well as it does in their wives' lives.
True, love is self sacrificial and humble
Jesus could've acted like a strutting king because He is King Of All, but He acted as servant to be of examples of how we should live.
The "playboy" thing is highly unbalanced and unbiblical, as Mike pointed out. Anyone living like that is not living for Christ, but using Christ to live for themselves. They need to repent, or end up in outer darkness.
@@ApostleOfGod8862 I'm not sure that born again believers can't fall into some worldly influence, like that, but if they do, they will eventually repent. I certainly did both. If we belong to Christ, we will eventually see our error and repent. The Holy Spirit will see to it, and our new nature will want to please Jesus, not be a disappointment to Him.
@@lindajohnson4204 : That is usually the case. However, sometimes people hold fast to lies, often because they are easy or comfortable, or they don't want to admit their "badness". I've run into that last one the most.
The danger that almost NO ONE PREACHES is that if a soul STOPS FOLLOWING THE HOLY SPIRIT, but instead decides that something false is "God", they will not make it to Heaven in most cases. Jesus warned about being lumped in with the hypocrites, and that the way to Life is narrow, and few there be that find it. In 2 Peter 2: 19-22, he warns that if you choose the flesh over the Spirit, lies over Truth, your old ways over the Way, you are choosing death over Life. It would be better to have never known Jesus, than to go back to your old ways.
Hebrews 12: 5-11 supports this, especially verse 8. Do you think an illegitimate child will enter Heaven? No, they will not. Ephesians 6: 9-10 speaks of ways to be excluded from the Kingdom of God, and Hebrews 12:14 warns us that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Also, consider the warning in verse 25. These are but a small number of warnings, and there are many more. Matthew 7 and 25 are quite telling chapters as well.
It is not about being lopsided in your faith and walk, always fearing falling short. Remember Romans 14:4. The walk requires us to come to the Lord in contrition each time the Holy Spirit surfaces one of our sins/fleshly ways. We then pray for the Lord to reveal the root cause for this behaviour, with fasting if necessary. Once Jesus shows us the root cause, Jeremiah 13:23 shows us that we cannot change it. We MUST then petition the Lord with heartfelt prayer and fasting TO CHANGE US - TO FREE US INDEED from our sin. Again, prayer and fasting, until His power comes and He changes us inside. 2 Timothy 3:5 describes many walks these days, denying the power of God to change us. My wife once read the verse that says that God's ways are not our ways, and she agreed with it. The Lord spoke to her and said, "But they ought to be." She spent much time bringing her sin to Jesus and seeking change. I've never met a person more like Christ than her, and I aspire to follow Christ as she did. So I urge you and all who read this to put into practice what I have shared, and find out that there is more intimacy to be had with our God, and answers to your pain and discouragement.
Who the Son makes free is free indeed. God bless your walk with Jesus.
The Bible says wife's submit to husband like husbands submits to Christ if your abusive that's not submitting to Christ is it
I agree completely... The church needs to be preaching more about how God calls men to treat their wives and this would not be as big of an issue...
Agee.
If they would start there and at least bring it up as much as the wife submitting, it would be extremely helpful.
My friend with an abusive husband sought help from her church and was told it was her fault, that she needed to submit more and he wouldn’t get angry. She was told he was hitting her because she wasn’t submitting well, that she was a bad Christian.
Thankfully, she was able to get free and eventually married a good Christian man many years later.
My thoughts exactly, and that is a very top reason for all we know, more than we realize women not leave abuser. She is made tl believe, directly or indirectly, it's her fault. There are men you can literally do every single thing he wants, including only going to the bathroom with permission, and he will still abuse. Such a beyond major cop-out! He abused because he choose to abuse and make everything about him.
I'm glad she got away and was not murdered and hopefully not injured to point of disabled in process.
I hope she also left that church.
Physical abuse should never be tolerated in any form or fashion. I’ve read in these comments that physical abuse is ok if the wife does not submit and the comment that light physical abuse should be forgiven and the police not called. Anyone who says that is ok is ungodly and God will judge them. I wish there was some oversight in these comments. Women, or men, who are struggling with an abuser should be encouraged to leave that person as they will most likely do it again. I see the hearts of some in these comments and it is ugliness.
Such a great video clip! Thank you! Understanding scripture context, the current culture of the time, and what is being conveyed, Jesus/Christianity elevated the status of women against the societal norms of the time.
As most know, Paul defines Love and charity. [1 Corinthians 13:4-7: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.]
One should understand the role of the husband through the lenses of what love and charity is. [Ephesians 5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;] [Ephesians 5:26: So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies.]
This may just 'sound nice' to us reading it these days. However, when you realize how their societal norms and culture was regarding the state of marriage and women's status was, at the time, this statement in Ephesians was very *powerful and life altering.* Paul emphasizes that the husband's love towards their wife should be comparable to the sacrificial Love of Christ for his church. This was *transformative* against their culture's current state of marital union, but not different from how God intended.
In case anyone’s interested in praying for our Christian leaders/shepherds like Mike Winger:
16 prayer points you can pray for them:
1
You can pray that they will always have a good walk with God (that they will not forget their first love), that God will bless their private Bible reading and prayer life, and that they will have good sound doctrine.
2
You can pray that they will be full of the Holy Spirit and that God will bless their ministries so that many more people will come to faith in Jesus for God’s glory, and that they will disciple them properly.
3
You can pray that they will be humble, that they will remember how many Christian leaders in the past have fallen, and that they will have a very healthy fear of the Lord.
4
You can pray that God will protect them and the ministry God has given them from:
Pride
Love of fame
Love of money
Desire for the approval of people rather than the approval of God
Being worried about offending people
Compromising God’s Word
Sexual temptation
Demonic attacks
Persecution (from outside the Church and inside the Church)
5
You can pray for their PHYSICAL HEALTH and that God will heal all their health problems.
6
You can pray for their MENTAL HEALTH. Pastors often have stress and battle discouragement and depression. Please God touch them and heal them of all mental and emotional problems and distress.
Pastors can also sometimes be hurt by the people they serve or by other Christian leaders - so we can pray that this won’t happen but that if it does that God will heal these wounds and strengthen His servants to forgive each other and that God will restore unity for His Glory.
7
You can pray that God will bless and protect their families.
Satan often attacks pastors by attacking their loved ones.
So you can pray that their family members will all have a good walk with God, have good sound doctrine, that God will protect them all from demonic attacks, that God will also bless and protect their physical and mental health, heal them of all infirmities, and that God will bless all their family relationships so that there is peace and love in their families.
You can pray that God especially blesses and protects all areas and parts of their marriages, so that they will not be tempted to look elsewhere.
Also please God bless their marriages especially so that they can be a model and example for other Christians.
8
You can pray that God will abundantly bless and protect the finances of the ministries and also the personal finances of God’s servants (especially finances needed for health or medical expenses).
You can pray that they have abundant finances so that they can do every good work God wants them to do.
9
You can pray that God blesses and protects the relationships between Christian co-workers in ministries - so that no jealousy or strife or bitterness takes root. That they will all have Christian unity and that their focus will be on God getting all the glory and rejoice in any and all work for God.
10
You can pray that God prevents any technical or logistical or legal or any type of problems for their ministry, but if they have any such issues/problems that God will help them resolve/fix and totally solve and remove these problems.
11
If it’s an internet (e.g. RUclips) ministry you can pray that God will help the videos spread on those platforms and get many views and that God will use the videos to bring many people to repentance and faith in Jesus.
12
You can pray that God will help Christian leaders be good shepherds of Jesus’ sheep and continue to feed Jesus’ sheep, and that they will not only convert people, but also disciple new converts so that they can grow and develop and mature in a healthy and supported way.
13
You can pray that God will give them the heart of a servant.
14
You can pray that God gives them wisdom and helps them make all decisions.
15
You can pray that if they make mistakes or sin that God will grant them humility and repentance and restore them.
16
You can pray that more Christians will pray consistently for their Christian leaders/pastors/shepherds.
***********************
You could make a list of pastors/ministries you want to support and pray for them regularly.
Jesus said:
“ when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will REWARD you.”
Matthew 6:6
Thank you, this is so helpful.
@@MPA111 May God bless you and your loved ones abundantly!
In case you’re interested - here are
12 more BIBLICAL prayer points:
1
You can pray for God to draw more people to Jesus and to grant more people to come to Jesus.
Jesus said:
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them"
John 6:44
Jesus said:
“No one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
John 6:65
--------------------------
2
You can pray that God will REVEAL the reality and truth about Jesus to more people.
"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not REVEALED to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in Heaven."
Matthew 16:16-17
"At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and REVEALED them to little children."
Matthew 11:25
---------------------------
3
You can pray that God will teach more people.
Jesus said:
"It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’
Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him COMES TO ME."
John 6:45
--------------------------
4
You can pray that God will open more hearts to attend to His message.
"The Lord opened her heart to attend to the things being spoken by Paul."
Acts 16:14
--------------------------
5
You can pray for more laborers.
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”"
Matthew 9:37-38
Jesus said:
“The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest."
Luke 10:2
-------------------------
6
You can pray that God will use these labourers to OPEN MORE EYES and turn more people from darkness to light.
Jesus said:
"I send thee (Paul), TO OPEN THEIR EYES, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."
Acts 26:17-18
-------------------------
7
You can pray that God will grant more people repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth:
“in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth”
2 Timothy 2:25
-------------
8
You can pray for more opportunities to share the Gospel, and for God to open more doors for effective work:
"And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains."
Colossians 4:3
“ because a great door for effective work has opened to me”
1 Corinthians 16:9
-------------------------
9
You can pray that God will give all Christians the boldness to share the gospel.
"Lord... grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness... And when they had prayed... they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness."
Acts 4:29-31
------------------------
10
You can pray that Christians will speak boldly RELYING ON THE LORD:
“ they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord”
Acts 14:3
-------------
11
You can pray that God will give us all the right words to say.
"Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,"
Ephesians 6:19
-------------------------
12
“pray for us that the word of the Lord will spread rapidly and be glorified”
2 Thessalonians 3:1
----------
13
You can pray that we will have more of God's love in our hearts for the lost so that we will not be afraid to share the Gospel, but that God's love in us will override any fears and make it automatic that we share the gospel in love.
If there was a frozen lake, you wouldn't want to go swimming in it.
But if a small child fell in, you would automatically dive in to save them.
We can pray for love that will cause us to act.
-------------------------
"Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful."
Colossians 4:2
This is beautiful. Thank you
@@justniobe May God bless you and your loved ones abundantly!
Can you address the neopagan movement? I know it's big in California, and a lot of people are being drawn in because all the faith they see around them is shallow and worldly, so they want to return to a more traditional life. Christians need to be actually invested in their faith and learning deeply about its traditions and rituals if we are going to keep people Christian, and we also need to not give up on people, or else they'll choose something that feels more deep and committed, even if it's not. My girlfriend used to be neopagan before converting (we're still working on deepening her faith some), and when I told the people of this channel about how I knew she was close to converting, all I got was people saying pessimistic things and telling me that it wouldn't work. That's a shameful attitude that doesn't help anyone.
epic
@@guineapigsith699 Thanks 😆 which part was epic?
Except we don’t have a lot in the way of rituals.
@@gorgo4910 At least not official ones; I also wasn't talking about yours, I was talking about the ones in Christianity.
@@arspsychologia4401 I’m a Christian. We don’t have many rituals. Breaking and sharing bread and wine. Baptism. Attending church.
…I’m not coming up with many more that span all denominations. There are denomination-specific rituals when you get into orthodoxy and Catholicism, however.
I’m a Christian- so is my husband. We’ve been married for thirty years! He’s a kind considerate Christian man! Maybe I just got lucky! But I know I’m blessed..
This reminds no of my mother's husband... They're divorced now and things got better (on both sides it seems) but it wasn't nice....
As someone who does not want to have ex's of any kind (boyfriend, fíance, husband) I hope I'll be able to identify "red flags" before I get into a relationship with someone.... All of those stories all over the internet are frightening, especially when they happen after a child or marriage...
Mike, I'm not a feminist and I believe in the husband's leadership in the home. One of my concerns is that I have heard scripture on women's submission to their husbands, but I have not yet had a preacher I don't think preach about husband's loving their wives as Christ loved the church. So while it's good that we have one side of the marital equation taken care of, the lack of leadership and teaching on the men's role has caused men who are Christians to fill in the Gap with whatever they think that a man is supposed to do in leadership. That lack of teaching is extremely dangerous for wives in Christian marriages. For example, I was married to a Moody Bible student who wanted to become a pastor. His dad was an abuser. When we got married he made sure to let me know that I had to submit to him. He even did a sermon about husband's loving wives as Christ loved the church. But he had absolutely no idea what that meant because they were just words in a book and not explain to him from someone and leadership from what it looks like. So he put dominion into our marriage. Might have been willing to die for me (because that was fighting and cool and manly,) but he wouldn't be a servant leader in the marriage. He would shout at me, tell me where i could and couldnt go (not even go and print church bulletins at the church three blocks from home even though it was a small town and the only thing that happened there was a bar fight or a lost calf.). He made me do everything for him including picking up his socks off the floor. If I stated anything about it, he would yell at me that i was to submit and not when i felt like it.
Needless to say I left him. But there are other men like this out there and the red pill manosphere is filling in the void. However its not Biblical and is very toxic. Its abusive. Until Pastors start preaching on the husband's role in marriage, this is what will happen.
So true. I first had problems with my faith in high school. I can still remember the sermon "wives submit to your husband's as to the Lord". Ok. But I had my Bible I read the surrounding verses. No words on "husband love your wives as Chrust loved the church." OK. Well it was a long sermon. And yet the next week we moved on to a different part of scripture. Odd that.
A text without context is pretext. I know what kind of servant leadership to expect from my husband exactly because the Bible spells it out. I know my reciprocal responsibilities because Scripture is clear on it. I also know my inherent value as God’s daughter because of biblical teaching and would not tolerate abuse. People need to stop hijacking scripture for personal gain. Biblical illiteracy is the root of the problem.
This man does not understand the logic or behavior of abusers. Period.
Abusers always have their excuses, though it’s not the fault of their excuses.
How about, "If you tell people, I will lose my ministry, and it will be your fault people don't get saved."
That's emotional manipulation. I seriously doubt that abusive people are leading anybody to Jesus.
Everytime you post I get so excited thinking its the episode on women and coverings. Enough already 🤣
Wrong. Marrying an abuser has nothing to do with being Christian or not. It has to do with unhealed childhood trauma. A lot of abusers pretend to be Christians. Abuse is always one-sided. It can be verbal, emotional, spiritual, not just physical. Most abusers try to get you to want to kill yourself with psychological abuse and paint you as the crazy one. It's psychological torture. He still minimizes the reality that abuse victims get no help from pastors. There's so much ignorance on this issue and with demonic warfare.
Mike, please address this topic in a longer video in your WIM series. It would really be a blessing, especially as the very men who you are talking about, who are twisting scripture or abusing, are watching your videos. I’ve seen it in your comments section. They are hearing “sacrificial leadership” and interpreting as justification for their wrong ideas/actions. This is probably one of the most serious critiques of Complimentarianism, and deserves a long video. Especially right now, as more and more cases of abuse keep coming out (like from the southern Baptist convention).
I’ve seen the comments too and am shocked. Some men were even advocating for physical abuse.
When Jesus said I do not permit divorce except in the case of adultery, he wasn't just talking about the act of having sex with another person that is not your spouse, he was talking about abandonment - the essence of adultery.
What point is there in remaining married to someone who has abandoned you for someone or something else? When God divorced Israel and Judah, He did it because they had abandoned Him and turned to worship other gods and joined themselves to foreign nations. They did not care about Him at all, so God gave them over to those nations to be enslaved by them. In the same way, when your partner abuses you, there is a good chance that they have abandoned you too and you do not need to worry about divorcing them.
Love is unconditional, but marriage is not. Marriage has conditions that must be kept. If you don't keep your vows then the marriage is pointless and you were better off staying friends. If an employee does not do their work then the employer will fire them, and if an employer does not pay their employee then the employee will resign from the job. The two can still love each other, but the kind of relationship they shared is void. So be clear on your expectations for the marriage from the start, otherwise you may just get together with someone you don't see eye to eye with.
But keep in mind, God did not abandon Israel and Judah despite their own adultery. He divorced them for a time, but He promised that one day He would win them back and turn the hearts of the people back to Him. Not only that, but He promised to redeem the whole world through Judah's descendant. And that descendant was of course Jesus. Jesus, the Son of God, took on the sins of the world, absorbed the cost of God's hatred towards sinners and restored the relationship between God and the world.
In the same way, God desires for us all to forgive each other just like Jesus forgave us when we were His enemies, destined for Hell. If we cannot forgive each other then we do not understand what Jesus has done for us and our faith is dead. But forgiveness does not mean you put yourself in danger for no reason and let someone continue to sin against you. We were not called to let our spouses kill us, but we are called to love them. And sometimes the loving thing to do is to divorce them - for abandoning you and their marriage vows, and to give them over to their sins.
But do consider the fact that love is something you show even to your enemies. If your spouse truly repents one day and you haven't already remarried, then the loving thing to do is to get back together with them. Even moreso if you have children.
Keep in mind that there is a difference between abandonment and making mistakes. You have to understand that your spouse isn't perfect. They will be flawed in some ways whether you know it or not. They will eventually slip up and fail to fulfill the requirements of the marriage covenant. They may get angry at you, or look at someone else with lust, or be too lazy to do their household chores, but none of these necessarily mean they deserve to be divorced. When we make a mistake we say we are sorry and try to do better next time, but the person who has abandoned their spouse sins in such a way that they do not even care to keep their marriage vows.
Yes, we must be careful not to keep score and start rule keeping with our spouses. Rules do not address the heart of the problem in cases of spousal neglect. And keeping score is a form of control and abuse in itself. You are actively looking for reasons to divorce someone, which is in stark contrast to the kind of love that keeps no records. More importantly, enforcing our expectations upon each other does not address the beliefs of the heart that cause us to sin against each other.
E.g. if your spouse is too lazy to do household chores then don't go straight into nagging them and spitting accusations. Realize that only hurt people hurt people. Instead, ask your spouse why they are the way they are before you make a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe they are feeling stressed out or in pain, maybe they don't know how to manage time very well, maybe they are angry at you for something you did and are being spiteful. Whatever the reason is, don't attack your spouse, but talk it out and try to find common ground and understanding.
If you understand why people act the way they do then you will be less likely to demonize them and turn your marriage into Hell, and will be more likely to work as a team where you inspire and encourage each other to change for the better. Treat your spouse with compassion, like you would with a child, and you will be surprised by how people change. Unconditional love and support is imperative for your marriage. But far too often we just make the problem worse for ourselves and we end up in situations where the marriage is defined by abuse and neglect. Marriage may be conditional, but it will only succeed if you know how to love each other unconditionally.
If we only taught everything in the Bible. Judges 19 is a great example of an abusive husband, yet none of us hear about it until an atheist brings it up.
I'd never heard of it until your comment, which says it all.
How do secularists and humanists explain why their views make wives/partners 'ripe for abuse' as well? My parents weren't Christians, yet the old man when I asked him about it said he use to bash my mother 'because she deserved it and it was my right", I've heard many non-Christian husbands give that excuse.
That is interesting, I’ve always wondered about this because it’s a human sin, not exclusive to religion. I’m sorry you went through the abuse. I hope you have found healing and wholeness.
Abuse is higher in religion
It's an old way of thinking, a traditional attitude of men that dates back to the Fall of Man. "I'm stronger, I'm right, so you better listen!" I doubt anything other than extreme trauma could get them to reconsider, and even then rarely.
@@eflow4786 where is the proof of this?
Thank you!!! I wish I would have known this years ago!!!
Sadly, I had to bring in our pastor and he did nothing but allowed him to pray over the church and do other things yet did not encourage him to reconcile or stop his abuse.
If I could like this 1000x over so it shows up higher in search results, I would.
Thank you SO MUCH for this!!!!
I'm finding a faithful fellowship of believers around my land where Christianity is minority, little to no biblical churches. Now there's a church I've seen which seems good and biblical through social media, but idk what it's like in reality
but🙏please pray for me to know God's will , whether i should go or refrain
🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾Perhaps Mike Winger can give you a list of churches in the area you are if you contact him or his team? Either way I am praying. Also know that you are not alone… Many Christians struggle with finding sound community. And in many ways we all have to compromise to an extent.
@@HonestLeighSpeaking thanks for prayers sis. Btw, do you have a fellowship
You can look for a calvary chapel church nearby (biblical verse by verse study of the word, etc) potentially. The denomination is a pretty good bet from what I've seen (plus they have a church locator on the main site). Just an option
@@andrewwoode thanks for advice but as born again believers we shouldn't be looking into denominations stuff. It's not biblical. The only church i would look for is purely born again and bible based. Not Calvary or baptist stuff
@@citygirl7702 What country are you in? That gives a better idea of what's there, I can do some research.
"No matter what she did to provoke it"
Really?!?!?! A victim in no way carries the blame for their abuse.
Agree 💯
Most abusive relationship both parties are being abusive. Most that have a single abuser are women not men.
I want to agree with you, but where did you get that statistic from ?
They do if they’re intentionally egging it on.
@@EphemeralProductions No, the choice to hit belongs to the abuser alone.
My sister had to sleep with a gun under her pillow and her door locked. When she tried to bring it up with the pastor he told her she probably wasn't a good enough wife and needed to do better. 😡💔she ended up abandoning her husband and 7 kids and is a shell of her former self and full of shame for leaving them. But her brain was broken and I don't think she will ever recover.
All of this is summed up in Jesus's command "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself”. Do you think your neighbors are only on the other side of your property line??? They are all of humanity which includes your spouse. "Turn the other cheek" is another example of teachings that are basically just subsets of (Matthew 22:37-39) Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. “This is the first and great commandment. “And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". EVERY interaction with others should be focused through the lens of these verses.
Praying for you to be all well soon. Take it easy and give yourself plenty of time!
So… After all this… A woman’s safety still depends on whether the man chooses to be an abuser or not. Telling men how they SHOULD behave doesn’t make them behave that way. Back to square one
This response was heavy on personal opinion and light on the Word of God. Glad to know that Christians will follow Jesus only and not any others. So it remains to be asked, who is this advice for?
That's what happens in complementarianism. The underlying female inferiority doctrine that results is too tempting and attractive for men not to abuse.
This is why it’s so important when it comes to WHO you marry. Rarely do you have the issue of abuse when both people go into marriage with the right intentions and perspectives.
The word "rarely" is a good one. It happened in our home after 20 years of "right intentions and perspectives" in a blink of an eye. Very scary but God has kept the children and me. I've been praying fervently for healing for my husband and restoration of our family all to Christ's honor.
@@bila8362 Yep, I would definitely not say it could never happen.
@@kengy1991 Thank you. Much appreciated.
Men have an analogous issue. Every Christian regardless of gender is commanded to turn the other cheek, go the second mile, return good for evil. All who follow Christian teachings need to navigate this, accept the possibility and even likelihood of abuse.
People who are abused don’t simply “feel abused” they ARE abused. Please be definitive. Either you are talking about abuse or you are not. Don’t blur the lines.
It was good to here you say its still possible to get ambushed when a man can hide his temper a long while.
This occured with me in a first marriage.
A second marriage also failed after 3 years of dating and nearly 8 years of marriage.
Marriage strained when our child was born. He put her first, pushed me aside except to work full time to put him through college, put his mother first over my needs and wants regarding our daughter. He left the church, and had an affair with another woman in his final semester, and left our marriage.
(and left me upsidedown ... please keep me in your prayers. Now I am old and without resources and our grown daughter is prodigal and upside down).
Wives are instructed to "submit" to their husbands, husbands are instructed to put their wife's needs ahead of their own, sacrificially, as Christ loves the church.
"Submit" means to recognize and respect the authority of the leadership role of the husband in the marriage.
We aLL ought to give the final decision making to God. But in the marriage, the husband and wife work as a team partnership, but the husband has the role and responsibility, of leadership.
I think of it as similar to a company owner and his #1 manager. The owner relies on his Manager's skill, expertise and advisements and recommendations... But the owner has the final decision making leadership role.
And should be making his choices with the best interests of the marriage, and of his wife in mind, over his own wants/preferences.
Or as in the military there is a chain of command.
"Submitting" in this manner, isn't being a doormat or target for abuse. It is working together as a team.
When we constantly teach submission and focus almost entirely on abuse we continue to diminish the entire structure and teaching of God by painting the structure as inherently abuse prone or bad. Which is why most Christian women don’t submit, and don’t understand what it really means or what the Bible really says.
We get it, people are bad, we shouldn’t lead with that every time we teach this. Women are BAD often too, rarely respect, often undermine and tear down their husbands, yet how often do we hear this teaching leading with that? Never. Not that I’m saying we should, just illustrating the disparity and dynamic of how wrong we teach on this.
1 Timothy 5
8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
How much more so a person who not only neglects, but actively HARMS members of the household? Even slaves are given freedom from an abuser, how much more so a wife?
Exodus 21:26-32 ERV
“If a man hits a slave in the eye, and the slave is blinded in that eye, then the slave will be allowed to go free. His eye is the payment for his freedom. This is the same for a man or a woman slave. If a master hits his slave in the mouth, and the slave loses a tooth, then the slave will be allowed to go free. The slave’s tooth is payment for the slave’s freedom. This is the same for a man or a woman slave.
I heard a man say that the Greek word for everything is not helper but rescue.
Could that be true and if so it puts a different light on that meaning.
No offense Mike, but it's not "probably" a good idea, it's the best idea. Period.
We call it emotional abuse when the submission of women part of the Bible is used to keep women silent. The part of the Bible many men forget is they are called to sacrificial love for their wives.
You know who else blamed his wife for his sins?
Look where it got Adam
deal with abuse immediately
My mother is a covert narcissist how do i deal with her...she always tries to provoke me to get a reaction from me and make me the rotten fruit so that she can be the good fruit she also smears my name and cut me off from everyone in the family who were once close to me...she did the same to my late father who refused to divorce her as he thought that it was a sin and also because it would affect my future..
I heard a pastor say once that a woman can't do anything wrong, because anything she does wrong is a result of the man's poor leadership.
That seems pretty dehumanizing to the wife in my opinion. The Bible certainly calls both husband and wife to actively participate in marriage.
I kind of agree. But the wife still can get angry bitter and that’s not correct. Although her bitterness and anger may be justified by his lack of leadership or mental abuse or controlling. But the wife should stay in God’s word
The man heads the spiritual direction of the household. He doesn't obtain reigns for "the wife." We are both fearfully and wonderfully made in his image and both have free will, able to decide independently to sin or not to sin. "The wife" is not an object.
And also something that is never talked about ever, including this chat. It is also OK for men to report abusing wives.
If you just stop for a moment and think on this very strange saying: “We as Christians …”. This statement reveals how unnatural this identity really is.
Only for a husband that does not love her as Christ loved the church.
Every counsel in Christian scripture is informed by and subservient to the supreme law of love.
Those who act or teach otherwise are ignoring the command of Christ.
abuse is common all over. A woman is rare who doesn't pre judge me for my visual handicap. i'd hoped to find a wife but each time i thought maybe it was her, something would go off .... some tried to manipulate me in ungodly directions. I'd pray instead of going along and wham they drop me cold.
I bet near every abused wife entered into compromise to attain their marriage. My aunt is likely a rare exception on pre marital sin but she married an a of g pastor who turned out to be abusive/twisted... And there you have doctrinal issues that should have sent warning bells. She had to 'get tongues'' through the redundancy method or something.
Having to control is a road to destruction and sometimes God gives us hard glimpses of that before eternity
you need to get out of true abusive ( physical, sexual, emotional) situations, if your church tells you not to, leave that church ASAP, firstly a church has NO authority over you they can only suggest what to do, stick to the scriptures in context
I wish you could address narcissistic characters in Christians.
They can't be both.. in order to become a Christian you must admit you're a sinner, narcissist don't do that.
@@ecclesiastesThreeVerseSeven that's true. They never apologise sadly 😥
Right, the wolves posing as Christians and deceiving the flock.
This is why I believe narcissists (especially Christian covert ones) are demonic …. It’s impossible to live like that if you’ve received the spirit and are rooted in Gods love. That’s what helped me break the spell of confusion in my relationship with the “god loving “ preacher type domestic abuser. I realised he has no truth in him and I RAN quickly. He was the darkest eyed man I’ve ever met. Worse than any unbeliever as he masqueraded as an Angel of light 🤢 sickening and very traumatising!
I really appreciate your Christ centered and Scripturally accurate content for the furtherance of The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ 🙏❤️👊. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a fellow Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of macro Evolutionary biology whereas I accept micro Evolution like speciation and adaptation but not macro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Is this whole session someplace on utube❓I continue to see clips but would like the whole session to resend to someone. Thank you❗️
Enter marriage questions conference into the youtube search, it's an 8 part series, Mike hosts sessions 3,5, and 7.
Much of the issue is there are very real personality disorders in the clinical sense as well ad other mental illnesses. Where does the Bible address this in context of the scriptures particularly in the headship of a husband?
3:30 Good point.
So many of you are likening the marriage relationship to a manager-employee relationship in the comments and that is beyond frightening.
Those chairs look uncomfortable, especially when combined with the stands being so low... anyway
I know that the vast majority of abusers in the church are men. However, it is really a travesty when a wife uses her power in the relationship to be verbally and emotionally abusive because what I have found is that there is no accountability for women in the church. How does one address this situation. I have and would never raise a hand to another believer, also I would never misuse authority as a man.
"You are not responsible for the wicked behavior of others". How does that apply with lust when a woman is blamed for making others lust through not being modest. The bible blames her for the wicked behavior (lust) of others.
Shacking up with a man without marriage leaves a woman open for abuse too. Basically the formal status of the relationship should be marriage because sex is supposed to go with commitment but the formal status in itself cannot protect a woman from abuse. Only the man sincerely modeling Christ and the church, loving his wife and giving himself up for her, can do that. This is from the inside and cannot be assured with external law.
“Peace, justice, charity. These cannot be legislated into being. They are the result of Divine Grace.”
-Calvin Coolidge
Wrong question. It should be “how Christianity is the only ideological system that gives women a chance to be free of abuse.”
me and my mom are stuck in doors for 3 years now due to my narcissist dad he refuses to leave. what can we do?
Call the cops. They can stay with you while you back your stuff and leave. Do you have a safe place to go and a way to get there? Also is the house or lease in his name?
@@kayhamilton3947 no we have nowhere to go even if we went homeless he'd track us down like a lost dog and calling the cops would just make him mad and have repercussions
@@marcellofunhouse1234 you don't have anywhere to go? A church that could help? Shelters?
No matter what you do this isn't going to be easy. You have to have the courage to step up to the challenge.
@@getthegoons we tried contacting shelters they never replied back the near by church is no help.
are you a child?
Thank you Mike Winger!
"You're not as likely to pick a poor choice for a spouse." Oh, boy.
What a slap in the face to every wife silently suffering in the church or who has suffered in the church because she was manipulated into an abusive marriage.
@@LLopez-sx1jr are there more abusive marriages in the church than loving ones?
If not, then that is the point Mike is trying to make. Your chances of finding a good spouse increases when you look in the Church.
If so, then the "church" is not following the teachings of the law of God and shouldn't be considered a Church.
@@LLopez-sx1jr It's really not. Thats just personalizing it. If he's wrong, then you have to be saying knowing the Bible makes no difference or negative impact on who one chooses as a spouse, which is wrong. Even if you DO have an abusive spouse, if you are guided by biblical principles, you are LESS LIKELY to. He's not saying it's the fault of the victim, he's just pointing out how looking in the church decreases the odds.
That statement kinda blew my mind, too, even though I really like Mike Winger very much. A very young Christian may be so naive as to the ways of the world that she is blind to the signs there may be a problem with her intended, even if he is a Christian raised in a good Christian family and even if he knows the Bible like a preacher. Unfortunately there are all too many people who approach the Bible like a smorgasbord. They pass up many nutritious ‘foods’ and select only dessert. In other words, Biblical knowledge is very much in their heads but it has not reached their hearts in a manner that would cause them to live accordingly. The one who marries this person finds, after a short time in marriage, that her new spouse is actually quite worldly and even narcissistic. This newly discovered behavior of her spouse baffles, disillusions and confuses her, as his unkind actions are scarcely affected by his biblical knowledge except for the fact that he uses his biblical prowess as a weapon and an excuse. (I’m sure this happens to young men, too.) In some ways these young people are even more vulnerable to abusers because they expect those who profess to be Christians to live according to what they supposedly believe. They are not prepared for the shock of someday realizing that this ‘wonderful Christian from a fine family’ is really a self-centered, domineering tyrant who would not know the meaning of love if it were explained and demonstrated repeatedly a multitude of times every day for the rest of his life.
When interpretation caters to my needs it’s selfish not selfless, definitely not Christ-like!!
I would say it definitely goes both ways.
women are more apt to emotionally abuse their husbands/ family than physically... Which definitely can cause harm, but that emotional harm is not apparent as bruises wounds would be.
Whereas the man acts out physicality as society teaches men to react with violence to gain control the situation to preserve life, property and maintain long term peace by mitigation of the threat.
On the other hand women are taught to fight with words and manipulate as Esther did...... Both are wrong ways of being Christ like.
When we truly follow Jesus those incidents and possibilities of violence whether they be physical/emotional or both become less of a possibility and more a impossibility.
Hurting people hurt other people and the cycle continues...
Jesus is the answer, a change from within, a circumcised heart is gentle longsuffering forgiving peaceful full of love and grace.
Proper expectations go a long way at not causing the suffering/disappointment of self and others.
We are all sinners saved thru grace, humility and forgiveness in heaps is needed for healing by the holy spirit.
Conjoined twins with two heads that can control one body, one head wants to be a missionary the other a mercenary or what about a pastor and prostitute or gay and hetro. How do the god christians believe in judge them for there doings?