@@chend2217 I mean ideally you get 3 slots filled in the vault so the odds of getting an upgrade is better but what are you thinking? Like having a lvl of M+ drop myth track gear from the chest? I think that could be cool but what key level should it be at?
Yeah, that would be cool. That's just a tricky one to balance in terms of gear progression, the drops should only be very high up in key levels and maybe capped weekly. Otherwise you'd have people in gear cap week one. But I do agree the very upper scale of dungeons could have more rewards. Arguably the myth vault is already too easy but also just once per week feels a bit shit as a mainly m+ player
@@teemukarppinen9462 I never understood how capping people at every corner is good. Let people play how much they want... its implemented to extend our time in game but its definitely not to extend the fun from game. On top of that they drop caps in like last 2 months of season when everyone is already done with it anyways
@@BulkersRuleZ the bread and butter of wow has usually been bear and content progression and completely uncapping it would really make people bored after they've exhausted the progression paths I feel. There's 2 sides to it ofc but I feel generally when I stop getting gear I also lose interest faster.
On one hand I think it is within our right as a consumer to complain about a product we believe isn’t meeting our standard. On the other hand, the community is going to complain no matter what blizzard does and it gets tiresome
I dont see how this changes anything. If you dont have gilded crests then champion gear is getting you to the same item level as heroic, if you do have gilded crests its better to spend them on crafted pieces than to invest them into heroic pieces. You are left with the same gear wall as before, you dont need the heroic gear from M+, you need the crests, so you are still required to do 7+. They claim they are slightly easier due to scaling changes, but this scaling is not comparable between seasons since player power changes. I feel that the real problem could be with the strength of champion gear, maybe it should be reduced to 6/6 to incentivize going for hero upgrades rather than trying to skip from champion to mythic.
Now if they also did some class balancing I'd maybe even engage with the system instead of just doing a 10 for the weekly vault. When I go full ham and use all CDs and get lucky procs and ... The Ret pally that is 15 ilvls below me presses divine blender and doubles my burst. Yeah that feels bad. Looking at the patch notes tho, this will get even worse.
You get more crests and valorstones from the higher levels, so it is not a waste of time, like it used to be with constant currency rewards independent of keystone level.
You missed small detail, if you already did all keys on lvl 12, and you do lvl 12 key, you probably don’t need it and only need it to go to 13 + to keep pushing. It happens often that you mess up the level you already cleared before and don’t want to start from lower, and you cannot discard key like in the past and do + 13 to get another +12 key.
Well the changes is super nice I do appreciate it a lot , tho the changes on the interruptions has to be addressed in order for the balance team to have easier time on balancing classes since each class CC kit is different and on the higher keys it’s gonna be tough for those classes with less CC kit to join which makes the meta stale with 1 meta comp.
I feel like they’re trying to better normalize gearing and giving better prestige type rewards that will last forever in the hardest content instead of giving higher level gear that you’ll just replace next season.
honestly they should just force you to clear, Mythic 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and so forth before you try the next. That removes this moronic, Ima jump into a higher key because it gives me better rewards hur dur.
Guess what - that is what happens in Delves +9/10/11. But over the course, since lots and lots of players hate to redo it over and over again, they leave after 2 - 3 failed attempts. I see NO issue with that, if Keys would never deplet!
Blizzard is listening to the people that can't play high keys. Yes, 10+ or higher is not made for everyone, get over it! If people don't want to spend time in improving their own gameplay or learn the dungeons and still need to be carried, they should not do high keys, it isn't made for you.
Sounds like good changes to me, but until I can queue for the lower M+ and have a mostly stress-free time with randoms, I'm going to stick to solo Delves + Guild runs. M+ still seems very pug-unfriendly.
It doesn't address the root problem, which is gameplay. I'm a DPS guy, for starters, but when they turned Tanks into paper, they killed M+. Tanks should be strong meat walls and threat monsters. Currently, tanks can fall over just trying to get a pack grouped up. Mixing that with the changes to spell queuing and M+ S1 would likely be considered a failure in all aspects. It's like they learned nothing from DF. When we all quit Shadowlands and hit them in the pocketbook, they fixed it and listened and made Dragon Flight. Now that the subs have returned, they are going back to their old ways of making the game have friction when none is required. Just go back to S4 DF, and everything will be fixed.
@@Hulkaholic87 I'm clearing +13s timed and still have tanks charged or leaping into a pack, and they are dead within the global. So, no, tanks are not strong. They do more DPS than they should, but they are not strong in terms of their primary job. If tanks are not fun, fewer people play tanks, and if there are fewer tanks, there are fewer dungeons being run. It is really that simple.
Nah im actually enjoying tanking. I dont miss the baby easy mode s4 of DF. But sadly the challenge of s1 has mostly dissolved now that we're geared and will probably eventually feel like your beloved s4.
"This doesn't address the root of the problem, tanks are made of paper" me when I don't read. They're reducing the threat to tanks in dungeons lol it says it in the post
I remember having a quarrel with another youtuber when I said, from experience, that the new revamped M+ could break progression, and the guy became mad at me. Well, I'm glad the season, and the devs, proved me right, and sad to have been right, because S1 has been a total boring ... mess (not only because of that ofc, but that's in the core of all the other things)
This makes me so happy! I've waited for so long! This has been going on forever it seams, and finally a content creator has properly used the word "fewer"! Sorry. I actually celebrated when he said it, so I had to comment.
Sounds good ngl. My only question is why not adjust the scaling RIGHT NOW and entice players back for end of season on the promise we'll all go up 2-3 key levels? So many people on breaks because M+ just hasn't been fun for them, I'd have thought Blizzard would be scrambling to bring them back.
@@teemukarppinen9462 I mean, the entire game is number go up = good... idk, maybe it would do nothing, but I bet many would jump in simply because they miss pushing keys and getting the scaling back down would make them want to do that again.
This might explain why Blizz just moved M+ reward mount req up to timed all +12s Maybe they wanted +10s more easier to access portals more before mount as a reward, making +12 less harder so ppl can have a go at guile difficulty Its still up to players how pug M+ will behave though, toxic and elitism won't help those who are disappointed in M+ environment
Good. You can do +12s with your eyes closed. Stop wanting free handouts and calling people who request the bare minimum from you (to do M0 mechanics) "elitist and toxic".
When I saw changes to scaling I was like "damn I think i can pug 2850 now" and then I saw they increase it to 3000 XD guess Ill just do 10s for portals
Just let people raid and maybe have also a lockout on M+ track gear dropping every week. It would encourage timing all keys during the week. Sounds fair to me and it isn’t just buff myth raiding.
i like the changes they made, i do not agree with your take on "bad pull resetting it and trying it again" you already do that right now... the only difference now it's that is making you waste your time by having to upgrade it again and of course when you do it will take you to another key.... NOW THAT IS AWFUL, timers should be a challenge thing, maybe for more loot but it's breaking more gameplay right now as you have people leaving in the first wipe anyway..even if somebody doesn't leave but something happens at home and loses internet THERE GOES YOUR KEY! while no timer would be like "ah, what a shame.. well let's re make it and big deal"
So.... less challenge and just run against time. M+ becoming more and more interesting.. now just remove timer or increase it to KSM is reached. Then make it harder. I want the mounts but i dont want the raging i m gonna burn your house down. Type of people who come with the pressure of timer 😅
Peril affix should be gone and we should have more access to myth track gear, a lot more than once a week for M+. It’s not enough for me to sub back in sorry blizz!
They’re going to dumb it down so much it won’t be fun. As a lowly bm hunter I still hit 2k in the second week and mind you all pugged. I’m about 2750 or so and haven’t played in weeks.
It's infinitely scaling... they just smoothed the difficulty curve out and increased telegraphs. Not sure how you're interpreting these to be negative changes
@@moonchild1873 - It's not "higher" if they just move goal post. already do the fun keys; just worried about the culture change when keys cant be depleted after all 12s are done. I agree with Soul that it may create moments where key resetting becomes routine. I dunno. we will see I suppose.
so its going back to the way it was. How many of us told them that S4 of DF was fine and all the changes were only going to make things worse?
One myth track item per week that isn’t an necessary an upgrade doesn’t do it for me
@@chend2217 I mean ideally you get 3 slots filled in the vault so the odds of getting an upgrade is better but what are you thinking? Like having a lvl of M+ drop myth track gear from the chest? I think that could be cool but what key level should it be at?
Super awesome changes that I’m happy to see. I hope at some point they allow mythic gear from high dungeon chests, but this is a great start.
Yeah, that would be cool. That's just a tricky one to balance in terms of gear progression, the drops should only be very high up in key levels and maybe capped weekly. Otherwise you'd have people in gear cap week one.
But I do agree the very upper scale of dungeons could have more rewards. Arguably the myth vault is already too easy but also just once per week feels a bit shit as a mainly m+ player
@@teemukarppinen9462 I never understood how capping people at every corner is good. Let people play how much they want... its implemented to extend our time in game but its definitely not to extend the fun from game. On top of that they drop caps in like last 2 months of season when everyone is already done with it anyways
@@BulkersRuleZ the bread and butter of wow has usually been bear and content progression and completely uncapping it would really make people bored after they've exhausted the progression paths I feel. There's 2 sides to it ofc but I feel generally when I stop getting gear I also lose interest faster.
@@BulkersRuleZ people will play first month and all will unsub.
That’s absolutely the worst thing lacking for me from m+, I’d literally take all the other changes they’ve made on PTR just for that lol
All good, I'm just tired of hearing the community complain.
as long as tanks and healers don´t get addressed better prepare for the complains to pick up fast once the saison starts.
God fr everyone is just crying non stop. I have no issues talking at all
On one hand I think it is within our right as a consumer to complain about a product we believe isn’t meeting our standard. On the other hand, the community is going to complain no matter what blizzard does and it gets tiresome
Nope. Didn’t hear any reason to pick it back up again. Tiny incremental changes aren’t going to do it.
These are big changes lmao
I dont see how this changes anything. If you dont have gilded crests then champion gear is getting you to the same item level as heroic, if you do have gilded crests its better to spend them on crafted pieces than to invest them into heroic pieces. You are left with the same gear wall as before, you dont need the heroic gear from M+, you need the crests, so you are still required to do 7+. They claim they are slightly easier due to scaling changes, but this scaling is not comparable between seasons since player power changes. I feel that the real problem could be with the strength of champion gear, maybe it should be reduced to 6/6 to incentivize going for hero upgrades rather than trying to skip from champion to mythic.
Now if they also did some class balancing I'd maybe even engage with the system instead of just doing a 10 for the weekly vault.
When I go full ham and use all CDs and get lucky procs and ... The Ret pally that is 15 ilvls below me presses divine blender and doubles my burst. Yeah that feels bad.
Looking at the patch notes tho, this will get even worse.
So doing +9 is still a waste of time. But we will add +8 to that list aswell.
You get more crests and valorstones from the higher levels, so it is not a waste of time, like it used to be with constant currency rewards independent of keystone level.
If you're good at the game you don't feel that much of a diff lol it's worth it for the extra shit that drops.
You missed small detail, if you already did all keys on lvl 12, and you do lvl 12 key, you probably don’t need it and only need it to go to 13 + to keep pushing. It happens often that you mess up the level you already cleared before and don’t want to start from lower, and you cannot discard key like in the past and do + 13 to get another +12 key.
Well the changes is super nice I do appreciate it a lot , tho the changes on the interruptions has to be addressed in order for the balance team to have easier time on balancing classes since each class CC kit is different and on the higher keys it’s gonna be tough for those classes with less CC kit to join which makes the meta stale with 1 meta comp.
I just dont want to play with the increased death timer, its anti-fun
Fortified tyrannical every week is anti-fun lol
I feel like they’re trying to better normalize gearing and giving better prestige type rewards that will last forever in the hardest content instead of giving higher level gear that you’ll just replace next season.
Thanks! Your comments helped me understand this better! Now if the professions team will adopt this new time saving philosophy?
Actually they didn’t lower the difficulty because they raised the the base difficulty of mythic 0
honestly they should just force you to clear, Mythic 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and so forth before you try the next. That removes this moronic, Ima jump into a higher key because it gives me better rewards hur dur.
Yeah but I skip to 6s on my alts and then to 10s and I do just fine
Not a bad idea. Like Pit difficulty check in D4 to reach higher torment difficulty!!
This is great if you're a bad player lol. My group will be starting way above 0s next tier
Guess what - that is what happens in Delves +9/10/11. But over the course, since lots and lots of players hate to redo it over and over again, they leave after 2 - 3 failed attempts. I see NO issue with that, if Keys would never deplet!
All of the npc spells that disregard line of sight kind of are messed up
Blizzard is listening to the people that can't play high keys. Yes, 10+ or higher is not made for everyone, get over it!
If people don't want to spend time in improving their own gameplay or learn the dungeons and still need to be carried, they should not do high keys, it isn't made for you.
Sounds like good changes to me, but until I can queue for the lower M+ and have a mostly stress-free time with randoms, I'm going to stick to solo Delves + Guild runs.
M+ still seems very pug-unfriendly.
It doesn't address the root problem, which is gameplay. I'm a DPS guy, for starters, but when they turned Tanks into paper, they killed M+. Tanks should be strong meat walls and threat monsters. Currently, tanks can fall over just trying to get a pack grouped up. Mixing that with the changes to spell queuing and M+ S1 would likely be considered a failure in all aspects. It's like they learned nothing from DF. When we all quit Shadowlands and hit them in the pocketbook, they fixed it and listened and made Dragon Flight. Now that the subs have returned, they are going back to their old ways of making the game have friction when none is required. Just go back to S4 DF, and everything will be fixed.
tanks are strong now and dungeons are less shitting on tanks. This is a different change for gearing.
@@Hulkaholic87 I'm clearing +13s timed and still have tanks charged or leaping into a pack, and they are dead within the global. So, no, tanks are not strong. They do more DPS than they should, but they are not strong in terms of their primary job. If tanks are not fun, fewer people play tanks, and if there are fewer tanks, there are fewer dungeons being run. It is really that simple.
@ PTR bro, this post is also PTR
Nah im actually enjoying tanking. I dont miss the baby easy mode s4 of DF. But sadly the challenge of s1 has mostly dissolved now that we're geared and will probably eventually feel like your beloved s4.
"This doesn't address the root of the problem, tanks are made of paper" me when I don't read. They're reducing the threat to tanks in dungeons lol it says it in the post
I remember having a quarrel with another youtuber when I said, from experience, that the new revamped M+ could break progression, and the guy became mad at me. Well, I'm glad the season, and the devs, proved me right, and sad to have been right, because S1 has been a total boring ... mess (not only because of that ofc, but that's in the core of all the other things)
Very Breezy Mythic+ Updates! 😊
This makes me so happy! I've waited for so long! This has been going on forever it seams, and finally a content creator has properly used the word "fewer"! Sorry. I actually celebrated when he said it, so I had to comment.
so basically for anyone who was already at the 3k and above bracket, nothing changes.
Idk..Im going to try to stick with delves and try to do tier 9-11..
Sounds good ngl. My only question is why not adjust the scaling RIGHT NOW and entice players back for end of season on the promise we'll all go up 2-3 key levels? So many people on breaks because M+ just hasn't been fun for them, I'd have thought Blizzard would be scrambling to bring them back.
@@Nekozji how would the key number being higher make the dungeons any more fun for those people? It's still the same content, just different number
@@teemukarppinen9462 I mean, the entire game is number go up = good... idk, maybe it would do nothing, but I bet many would jump in simply because they miss pushing keys and getting the scaling back down would make them want to do that again.
This might explain why Blizz just moved M+ reward mount req up to timed all +12s
Maybe they wanted +10s more easier to access portals more before mount as a reward, making +12 less harder so ppl can have a go at guile difficulty
Its still up to players how pug M+ will behave though, toxic and elitism won't help those who are disappointed in M+ environment
Good. You can do +12s with your eyes closed. Stop wanting free handouts and calling people who request the bare minimum from you (to do M0 mechanics) "elitist and toxic".
mount is now +13
@@BulkersRuleZ Even better. It should be all +15s, because, realistically, even 15s are easier if you actually realize you have a keyboard.
@@ice360 link me your armory I wanna see those 0.1% titles
They didn't. There are two Shreddertank mounts, a red one at KSM and the unpainted one for KSL.
TRASH should NOT be more difficult then BOSS fights!!!!
When I saw changes to scaling I was like "damn I think i can pug 2850 now" and then I saw they increase it to 3000 XD guess Ill just do 10s for portals
Why will blizzard not let us get myth track gear from end of dungeon. Why is it so vault gated.
Probably because you can spam m+, while raid has lockouts
So you can pay more sub money... this is not rocket science
it would make mythic raids pointless
True, though hot take. Bis for mythic+ shouldn't come from raid and vice versa or atleast make gears accessible from both
Just let people raid and maybe have also a lockout on M+ track gear dropping every week. It would encourage timing all keys during the week. Sounds fair to me and it isn’t just buff myth raiding.
i like the changes they made, i do not agree with your take on "bad pull resetting it and trying it again" you already do that right now... the only difference now it's that is making you waste your time by having to upgrade it again and of course when you do it will take you to another key.... NOW THAT IS AWFUL, timers should be a challenge thing, maybe for more loot but it's breaking more gameplay right now as you have people leaving in the first wipe anyway..even if somebody doesn't leave but something happens at home and loses internet THERE GOES YOUR KEY! while no timer would be like "ah, what a shame.. well let's re make it and big deal"
avesome changes. Making gear irelevant just as is at PvP. Who want a casual/mid experience M+ will 10-12s and get their myth gear
So.... less challenge and just run against time. M+ becoming more and more interesting.. now just remove timer or increase it to KSM is reached. Then make it harder. I want the mounts but i dont want the raging i m gonna burn your house down. Type of people who come with the pressure of timer 😅
portals will be free
nice changes!!!!
Sounds good to me!
Peril affix should be gone and we should have more access to myth track gear, a lot more than once a week for M+. It’s not enough for me to sub back in sorry blizz!
Imagine if you could use valorstones to increase your keystone level. It wouldn't be used much early season, but later on when trying to push higher.
really what % of gamers play this crap Mythic really
Letsss gooo 🎉
They’re going to dumb it down so much it won’t be fun. As a lowly bm hunter I still hit 2k in the second week and mind you all pugged. I’m about 2750 or so and haven’t played in weeks.
It's infinitely scaling... they just smoothed the difficulty curve out and increased telegraphs. Not sure how you're interpreting these to be negative changes
Fourst
Lame. Now the game is too easy great.
Play higher keys then, what's the problem?
Mythic raid. There, solved the difficulty problem for you.
Do a higher key lmao
Lame comment
@@moonchild1873 - It's not "higher" if they just move goal post. already do the fun keys; just worried about the culture change when keys cant be depleted after all 12s are done. I agree with Soul that it may create moments where key resetting becomes routine. I dunno. we will see I suppose.