My Thoughts on the Biggest PuG Mythic+ Changes to EVER happen..?
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
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Also, the 12 key depletion thing. I can't wait for the new meta to be "We're behind where we should be by about a minute. Lets reset it." "Tank why did you pull that pack that other tanks dont pull? Kick this tank and reset it" "[Key owner] Group sucks /leave"
Yuppp that's my exact thoughts. I feel like this may make pugging even worse especially if you are behind the curve a bit.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Could blizzard punish that behavior the same way excessive mythic leavers are banned
You cannot infinitely reset a key you need. So im not sure what you are talking about here
If you have timed all 13s and you start 14 progression you play your 14 it depletets back to 13 you cannot infinitely farm keys that you need only those you dont need
I mean this already happens except currently the group just disbands if they are behind on time. With these changes it at least allows people to learn from their mistakes and try again
the problem in pugs was never the dungeons. the problem in pugs is the people. always has been and always will be.
100%
100%, can't fix basic human toxic psychology, always gonna be some people who are like that, can't be fixed really.
It’s the bad player with an ego. Good players are always the first to say “mb I could have done that and that”
@@gooseg3822 yep
I'm hopeful that the "No key depletions below the highest level you've completed every dungeon" becomes universal and this is just essentially a "test" of the system. If it works out I could easily see a world where this happens for all key levels.
Hmm maybe. I think its meant for pushing only.
I feel like the best thing about the last couple of weeks is the communication. The way they actually address things in written form. A lot better for feedback
@@gooseg3822 oh ya 100 percent that has improved for sure.
I did the math on stream. This was factoring in the 25% increase to mob hp and damage at M0.
Current 10 is at ~236% (136%) increase. New 10 is at ~184% (84% increase)
On live A mob has 100 hp at M0. At a 10 they have 236 hp.
On Ptr a mob has 125 hp at M0. At a 10 they have 230 hp. Slighlty easier than live but realisticslly its about the same.
thanks for putting this way man. Many people thinks +10 will be a peace of cake şn season 2 and this will cause another set of problems
Great response yet again!
@@flyingraijin5867 yeah. Everyone was overlooking the M0 increase (my self included at the start). Granted if you don't factor that in then a 10 on PTR would be between a 7-8 on live.
An arguement I see a lot in regards to rewards is that for heroic gear.
Mythic+ (in this case 7) actually requires some player effort
While you can easily get through HC without doing anything.
I'm personally still under the impression that there should be a way to get myth gear from m+
But I guess that would remove the need for mythic raid completely
@@damkina_ina I'd like to see a way to turn a hero track items into a mythic one. I've been floating the idea of using crests, just like crafting.
You've hit the nail in the head Metro. Being a healer main there are so many players that don't know how to play the game in m+. I love my role as the healer and I'm able to 'save' the key by healing up the mistakes. Some days though it's tiring to see the same o' player type jump into m+ and not know what the heck is going on, hence you receive my m+ fail videos for your review and some form part of your channel content. ☺
Haha well I am certainly grateful for that!
You should get 1 retry, you brick the key, you get to try again at that same level, you brick again, it depletes
So you'd rather see them scrap all this and just do that instead?
I assume that Blizzard wants to increase the difficulty in the lower key levels (and increase rewards) compared to season 1 while not affecting 10s. This makes sense since participation in this key range is low. That is the goal and motivation for this change.
Ya I suppose that's a good way to look at this.
The change to the overall scaling is that with these changes in season 2 there isn't an additional 10% multiplier on health and damage on the step from 11 to 12 (replaced by Challenger's peril -15s lost on death thingy). The difficulty of obtaining 2850 rating (4x12 and 4x11) in season 1 when we have Challenger's Peril would thus be roughly equivalent to 3000 rating in season 2 (4x13 and 4x12), since the gap in scaling between keys at 11+ is 10%.
Thanks for trying to help me understand that haha
Just to explain the guile change since you asked.
Easiest way to think of it is just Guile == Peril in season 2. All additional scaling from that affix is just gone now.
Would’ve been less confusing to just keep the challengers peril name and remove guile instead of swapping the affix and remove the name peril.
@@dylanlonglands ya that's what confused me. Thanks!
The mount is out of my skill range now , see if i can get it after i max out my gear but i never got over 2900 before.
Mythic raid mount is out of my range to. I dont have the time to raid. I dont care about it.
If you have any questions or need any help just let me know. I'm happy to do what I can.
They have made it much easier to hit 3k. Keys 12 and up are about 1 key easier than on live. So if you can do a 12 now you should be able to do a 13 next season
if you get 2900 in S1 I'm sure you can get 3000, the step from 12s to 13s is tiny compared with 11 to 12.
i just hope that mid range key groups kinda come back. Felt more difficult for me to try and get into 12-ish keys, and I know a lot of that falls on me but still I hope there is more opportunity. This season before patch 11.05 it was actually a bit harder for my rdruid to get into a 12.
Ya sadly I think this will actually make it worse. I'll be making a followup on this specific topic this weekend.
I tried restoration druid, but did not feel it as fun or as impactful as Mistweaver Monk or Restoration shaman. I think Restoration druid needs a re work and new spells since the design does not feel any different than It was back in Battle for Azeroth. I love how shamans have so many different totems for a variety of encounters. But restoration druids just do not seem to have much innovation. HoTs are still a lot of fun, but something is missing.
In regards to players jumping into 7s after gearing up in delves, WoW has been designed from the beginning where a player's content and difficulty progression is part-and-parcel with their reward progression. The fact that completing Tier 8 delves would lead to participation in M+ 7s is a design flaw, not a player-base flaw. I disagree that the onus is on players to drop down key levels below meaningful reward progression and then "get good". The current gearing system unambiguously communicates to the player that Tier 8 delves >>> M+ 7s is the correct path.
As a fellow experienced M+ player I understand that getting good in M+ requires practice by starting at easier keys then working up slowly into higher key levels. However, I would argue that the game used to have a reward structure that better incentivized this progression path. This path is now disrupted by gearing in Delves. If max delve gear continues to be better than gear from lower M+ keys, this problem will persist. I understand that a similar problem exists between gearing in Raids vs gearing in M+, but the difference between these two game modes and Delves is striking: delves are as easy/easier than normal raiding yet reward gear equivalent to heroic raiding.
This blue post implies that a lot of players are using Delves to gear up before they do M+. It was easy to predict that this would happen. However, Delves were originally advertised as the "third pillar" of PvE content, where Delvers/"open world" players were separate from M+ players. Blizzard seems to be course-correcting after an incorrect prediction, that open world players would gear up in Delves and M+ players/raiders would gear up in M+/raid (i.e., causal vs competitive PvE players). These changes strike me as Blizzard changing Delve rewards to a track closer to the old M0-10 gear track, before the squish. In TWW season 2, M0 and lower keys will be harder, with scaling across keys levels that is less punishing. Hero-track M+ vault rewards will start at +2 rather than +3. Runed crests will start dropping from +2 rather than +4. Blizzard is restructuring rewards so Delve gearing leads into M+ gearing, rather than replacing it. (With exceptions, of course: for example, players will be able to get some gilded crests in delves next season.)
Well I see your point here:
"The current gearing system unambiguously communicates to the player that Tier 8 delves >>> M+ 7s is the correct path."
But after you follow that path and keep failing, you should be able to recognize that there are ways for YOU to fix this, before the COMPANY fixes it for you. The fact that people are refusing to do so, is unacceptable in my eyes as a player, and I personally would recommend they do NOT allow players to do this or encourage doing higher keys than their EXPERIENCE dictates they should do, only for gear.
But I can see why the company does not want to allow that to be a thought on the minds of players in the first place.
I just know its a lazy fix that will not truly fix the issues that are presented.
I'm generally against pushing bargain to +4 and fort/Tyr to +7. I feel like this is just going to create jarring jumps in difficulty when having all of them active from the beginning (i.e., +2s) would create a smoother and more gradual difficulty curve.
With that said, I don't think there is that much danger in making dungeons more rewarding loot wise. Looking back to season 4 of DF, which had the same key level squish as TWW, m+ across the board was much more rewarding in general, with +6s giving gilded crests, and 0s giving champion gear, etc. Nobody really complained, and I personally found entering dungeons with a few champion pieces to make tanking altogether more comfortable.
I do definitely agree that the problem with current m+, a lot of the time, is the players. It is really disheartening to do everything right only to watch a dps farm deaths to random ground swirlies, which is why I think challengers peril being removed from the "gearing" range entirely is a good change.
Ya the peril removal will help a lot. We had a great example of the players in low keys published yesterday if you haven't seen it. Really clears a lot of this up tbh.
Eh, I’m a reward player sometimes. I hit my 10s pretty fast to get my portals, my mythic gear, and then I usually just vault log for the season.
That being said I never found a problem with mythic + because of that lol. THOUGH 3k reward will get me to actually try and push.
Glad to hear you are considering it!
You're gonna (rightfully) blast me for not recording my runs but I actually played M+ progression on my alt shaman as intended, starting around 480 ilvl after leveling and doing a couple world quests. My main reason for not gearing through delves is f*** delves I hate the content and I will not do it even if it's easy gear. I play the game for M+. I wanted to learn healing in M+ so I did so starting at M2, and the inconsistency from group to group was insane. If you had players that knew what's going on, 2-4 is peanuts. Easily healable even severely undergeared. I got into a SoB 4 which turned into a 6 because the key holder had mis-listed, and we decided to run the 6 with me at 485 or so ilvl - this felt challenging but doable - I was resource starved but nobody died because they played as the dungeon mechanics were intended. And then I ran a CoT 2 and it was actually unhealable because the group was just 4 complete muppets that could not do 1st boss even on a 2. The inconsistency is wild. It's all player based - and some people then are just not willing or able to take constructive criticism and try to improve. What the delve system does is make people make bad decisions for the wrong motives: I want gear, so I'm gonna go into 7s directly. And then the question becomes: What is the player base of low keys? Is it people ethically trying to learn a new role or spec, or is it people that... have no sense of the game to the point where they don't even know their most efficient progression lies in delves? I don't know what the optimal system is. It's this weird thing of managing different peoples' psychology with the game design
Ya well there will always be that mismatch of expectations in a pug setting. But the game doesn't have much to manage if you draw the lines properly. The problem is they try to keep them blurry. It should be well understood that just like normal raid, even if the incentives aren't there for gear it has its value for learning.
I don't think people are going to really learn dungeon mechanics by starting at lower key levels UNLESS certain mechanics remain as dangerous at lower keys as they are at higher keys. Like literally just make it impossible to finish the key unless you deal with these important and avoidable mechanics. If they are dealt with then it's not even a DPS or a heel check for a lot of these things. Then you can make it so that just finishing the key is an actual indicator that you didn't ignore mechanics that will 100% get you or your group killed. Just timing a key doesn't seem like a good indicator of actual success or that you learned the dungeon. You can get all the way up to a seven and not even know that certain that certain important mechanics exist. Learn the mechanics first and then worry about topping the DPS meters later when mechanics are mastered and the real challenge is the timer.
@@Artivle to be fair that is a big part of the reality here and why people are complaining about difficulty. It could be even more that way, but it's still way way better than it was in the past where you'd have 13-15 levels between trivial and actual mechanics mattering.
There will always be a best/meta comp for high keys. This will always trickle down through the community to below where its actually needed. I think the only thing blizzard could do to reduce the impact of this is some sort of solo queue system which caps out at 10s or something. Means non meta specs could get into dungeons, and as people play with non meta specs people might realise that the meta isnt essential for lower keys.
I do think a solo queue is coming!
Part of the problem with non meta specs tho is that the spec is actually bad. Like why bring a DPS warrior when you could bring an Rpally or DK? Those other two have powerful immunities and self-sustain. Warrior is just there.
Why would you bring a boomkin with a long ass kick and slow ramp time when you could bring any mage?
It’s not just that “MDI doesn’t play boomkin so I’m not taking them in my weekly vault key” I think it’s more like “hmmm this group needs more kicks, let’s grab the ele sham.”
I don’t blame pugs for not taking druids and priests in a kick heavy dungeon.
@@Lyscian420 Yeah, completely agree with this as well. Imo things like warriors with really low utility should be tuned higher in damage, but this rarely seems to be the case.
@@Lyscian420 you are right to THINK people are concerned with that but they actually aren't. We constantly battle this in our keys. People play specs and builds that are simply not good in the pug keys we do, but because players play them at the highest level people assume everything would be identical.
Big issue now.
i mean blame the ppl who thought it was a good idea from going from Delves in week 1-2 and jump into M+ 7s. I absolutely geared to like 619 or whatever it was in delves, but then I started doing keys @ 2 to learn the mechanics. Doing dungeons on N/H dont prep for M+. This problem is squarely on the lazy ppl who didnt want to take the time to lean mechanics
Ya it's really not an acceptable thing to do. Skip progression, fail, then blame the system? Not how it should be.
Haven’t played mythic plus since df season 1. What do yall think the rough equivalent from df 13 to twwe season 1?
@@Skiddzyy way too many things have changed since then to compare them sorry. Give it a try and see for yourself is the best I can offer.
With a simple math , a +10 in next season will feel around 3 % easier than a +10 season 1
nop, increment of 7 % from 2+ to 10+ instead of 10% is not just 3% easier
That's with the zero scaling buff factored in?
Regarding the scaling (as far as I understand how the maths work out):
+12 keys with current s1 scaling would be +185% without Guile, and then Guile adds another 10% scaling - essentially another key level - totalling around +213%.
The way I’m understanding these changes is that Challenger’s Peril's effect is now put on Xalatath's Guile instead, and the scaling that Guile used to add is removed.
So Xalatath’s Guile now increases death timer penalty, there is no "Challenger’s Peril" anymore, and the added 10% scaling from Guile is gone.
For the PTR changes, with the 7% scaling up to +10 (and then 10% scaling from there), a +12 would only get up to +122%, as shown in the chart they posted. So to account for that, the base health/damage has been increased by 25%, after which the +12 instead ends up at around +178% health/damage scaling.
Now however, we’re not adding Guile’s 10% scaling on top of it since that effect will be removed, so it did get significantly easier: 178% health/damage versus the current 213% in S1 at the +12 level.
Therefore, they’re moving the Keystone Legend up another key to +13, for which the scaling will be around +205%. That's still easier than a current S1 +12 by ~8%.
(I don’t know how they’re managing the decimals, so give/take a percentage point here or there.)
Yes, the chart they posted is very misleading.
Actually well written. I understood some of that haha
Don't forget that they are increasing the Difficutly of M0. We have no numbers but checking ptr it seems to be 25% increased scaling at M0. This still makes 12's easier but only by ~6%.
@@deseanroot75 I took the 25% increase as a base for the s2 scaling yes. That still only equates to +178% at +12 for s2 without Guile, no? Which would make 12s have 36% less hp/damage compared to s1's +214% with Guile.
base * scaling^(keylevel-1)
S1 +12 ->
100 * 1.1^(12-1) = 285.31%
With Guile ->
285.31 * 1.1 = 313.84%
S2 +10, scaling is 7%, base is 125% ->
125 * 1.07^(10-1) = 229.80%
From this poiint scaling is 10%, to +12 ->
229 * 1.1^(3-1) = 278.05%
So 314% versus 278% is 36% difference. Hence why they're moving Keystone Legend up to 13s because that'd be 306% scaling. Still easier than even a current +12 by 8%, but of course much more comparable.
@@sodasodahero you are right, my brain was in another convo on the topic of +10 lol. Been a lot of mathing so I am tired.
@@deseanroot75 Oh hey, I know the feeling haha. Yeah fair enough.
One interesting thing to calculate is what the comparable scaling would be for bosses and trash mobs now that they've moved Fort/Tyrannical higher to +7 too 😄Though I haven't gotten to that yet. The base scaling for lower keys (i.e. lower than 7 in this case) is much higher in S2 because of the 125% start, so it'd be interesting to see how with Fort/Tyrannical it then compares.
I guess we can say that in lower keys overall it's slightly harder since both trash and bosses are equally scaled higher?
This sounds similar to what they did with crests. Once you “gear out” of … crest, you can now transmute/transfer old unneeded ones. M+ wise, once you “experience out” of +12, you don’t go below that because you don’t need it. As an altoholic, I try to complete (timed) every dungeon & level before moving on, ie all 8 dungeons timed at +6, then I can start doing +7’s and so on. I wish there was a way to encourage that behavior in all players.
Ya that behavior would be beneficial for everyone for sure.
Also from +12 onward all keys will feel 9% easier than what they are in this season
Gotcha.
napkin math says that the level scaling was reduced by 30% and the baseline scaling was increased by 25%. a 5% decrease in the difficulty of the keys. while not significant, it is better than nothing.
edit: to add to this: 5% of 2850 rating is 143. so it is a comparable increase in rating requirement to achieve keystone legend relative to the difficulty of the dungeons. 5% easier, you need 5% more rio.
@@steiige ya I just don't think anyone would truly notice it.
For players who are Veterans to Experts these changes will not likely affect them, however for players trying to get back into mythic+ and lockouts being weekly for Mythic 0 versus daily in the current season I believe this might setup a lot of returning players for failure. Practice is pretty much everything in Mythic+, and to reduce the available amount of practice could have significant consequences. I would say that there might be more people leaving lower keys than even in Season 1 if this goes live.
Hmm why's that? I dont think anyone actually does zero that often do they?
@@heythereguysitsMetro At the start of a new Season, where practice and gearing is essential I would say so. I was personally worried Mythic dungeons would be too hard because of the higher tuning, and being able to practice them on a daily reset was really helpful.
@@beang7045 ya well we may both be right here. Possibly people WOULD do them a bunch week one but now they are only going to do them once ever. Good point.
wow. I have a few thoughts.
1: I think nerfing overlapping mechanics is a good thing. While it does come down to user skill, this is a blanket statement that could be applied to nearly anything.
At some point we have to look at it from the stand point of a developer trying to get more people to play their game, not quit it, and maybe have others return. Which, is all about money as we know. Players being the highest point of difficulty in the game imo (lol) I welcome that change, perhaps it'll smooth out a few runs with less knowledgeable individuals.
2:removing the Challengers Peril was brilliant, and I think and always thought that mechanic would make more sense at the higher end for those pushing beyond the ilvl gear cap.
And, just like the previous statement I believe this will also contribute to smoothing out the failure rates, which will only be healthy for everyone's sanity, and the game.
3:great video, and I agree with just about everything you said as well. I logged onto PTR and it felt really good, allot better actually.
Glad to hear!
@@heythereguysitsMetro haha!!
Here's to hoping for a smooth season!
Well, for the most part, I agree with you. Most of these issues are player problems at the end of the day. Blizzard has to make the game as available to as many people as possible even if they suck or don’t respect the game mechanics unfortunately (at the risk of sounding cynical and mean) stupid players pay to play and the changes being made are trying to fix stupid.
Ya it's trying to avoid creating these traps for the players in those shoes. It's a smart move by the company. But sadly it only reenforces the idea that it's okay to be that way in the first place.
I knew scaling was off today you were fighting stuff with WAY to much Hp today .. blizz just posted this We have discovered an issue where the expected health values of creatures in Season 2 Mythic dungeons are not properly reflected in Mythic Keystones. To address this, we are submitting a hotfix to update creature health values to align with increased player damage output, but creature damage dealt to players will not be affected by this change. We will continue to monitor Season 2 tuning and make adjustments as necessary throughout the remainder of the PTR testing cycle.
Additionally in this hotfix, players in +12 keystones will be scaled to item level 678 to better reflect the anticipated player power for later keystone levels.
@@faxxie9964 oh ya? I read that as the mobs didn't have enough health. Kinda felt that way at times tbh. We will see tomorrow haha. A lot up in the air ATM.
From the perspective of a portal range healer, I love all of these changes. But I know that other brackets can and will feel some pain as a direct result of these changes, and if you asked me point blank what the solution is, I don't know the answer.
Ya sadly the solution is just recognizing it's meant to be difficult content and work on improving.
Glad that blizzard is listening to feedback and making positive changes to the game . This last season has been terrible for so many reasons.
I hope you will get what you want this time!
I never wanted no affixes but wanted new ones to replace the ones we have mainly had for 10+ years was time for a change. the changes I am seeing I am happy with though
Glad to hear!
Everyone is calling for no key depletion and I used to agree but thinking about it, wouldn’t this mean not having any lower keys at all in group finder? I feel like that would be bad for the system
It would dramatically change the nature of pugging for sure. Hard to imagine anyone ever doing below a certain level again. There would be paid boosts to a certain range frequently.
Well its a statement from blizzard, just because current ptr doesnt reflect it, doesnt mean its not their goal..Ion also made a statement about them going to make changes in the coming weeks to improve the M+ experience. So my best guess is, there is more tuning to come and we take their statement at facevalue..
@@Brink-GnomeWorks well I was just saying don't get your hopes up if you want things to be significantly easier. The words they typed are just a bit confusing, but the reality matches what they are saying.
these changes are awesome! good job Blizz! this is what I was hoping for. I love all of these changes. I don't dislike a single part of any of it. A rare near perfect W from Blizzard. gj gj gj!!
I hope it will play out as you expect!
If only someone would have told them that the revamped M+ system was probably going to broke progression... Oh, wait, I did! and other someone got mad at me because I was 'always wrong'. Well, it broke progression, and the result have been the worst M+ season in M+ history. Glad to see devs have seen reason, the steps go in the right direction, and I hope they work, also sad to have been right because, as I said, S1 has been miserable for too many people. Keep having fun!
In what way did it break progression? I certainly haven't experienced that.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Yeah, but you are a seasoned player who have time enough each season to learn, teach and play in order to get most/all of what you want. Most of the M+ pug community cannot afford that privilege.
The squeeze did not only meant the reduction in the number of key levels (not bad in itself, as we were too thin spread at that moment) but also an increased jump in difficulty both as base and from level to level, and a concentration in the gear rewarded.
WoW community, from its beggining, has always tried to cut corners, and the pug community in M+, the most as far as I know. Because most of them are like me, they like dungeons, they have but a few hours to play each week, and not always the same days at the same time. I (and a few friends with me) would have stopped playing the game back in Legion if not because of the apparition of pug based M+. So, you have a community which likes to be rewarded for its time (as everyone else), and do not have much time to play/learn/teach, something which was already causing tensions, as you well know. And suddenly, the devs heavily increased the base and level to level difficulty, reducing even more the field to learn, and made the lower branch gear rewarded much easier to get from other sources, so people can cut a corner to get it, and that to a community full of people who barely had time to gear a single toon in a full season before.
And all of this even before they added some ... affixes, like the one which increases the time you lose from someone dying. They did a good system for pros and pug players with tons of time to play, but for the majority of the pug playerbase, with its lack of time, it was bad, very bad with the later changes to affixes, and it has shown.
@@elcanaldelargan8575 sounds like unreal expectations. If you have so little time that you can't learn or progress then you have to stick to lower keys. I get your point though. They added delves for this type of player but you don't want to be in a delve, you rather a dungeon.
But still progression is perfectly intact. It's just harder, so tackle it at your own pace and try not to compare yourself to everyone else out there.
Just look at it at getting a little better every time you can play. If that means it takes you a month to upgrade a 2, it's still progression.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Oh, that was not strictly my issue, I was good enough as to learn fast having little time. What I did not do was to change main to the 'meta' flavor class of the month, so I was not picked for parties enough times as to be able to progress and, at least, gear a char before the end of the season, plus the frustration with other players because of more depletions, more parties broken at the first issue... thats the moment I left. To keep going at that stage would have been having 'unreal expectations', but I did not suddenly have 'less time to learn and play' than I had before, the M+ got suddenly much harder, plus the other changes, and it broke progression for me, and for a huge amount of other people.
So that part of the community in which I was (and, as such, I know all their ways, even when I did not have all their issues), and which before was perfectly able to play and progress at its pace, now its not, because the changes totally broke progression for us.
@elcanaldelargan8575 I don't understand why you think you wouldn't have been able to gear before the end of the season. Are you aware the season is still currently going on?
Personally my feedback here would be to remove the depletion of keys entirely. Then personally I would remove loot entirely from mythic plus and I would put bad ass trans mugs so that you could show how high you climbed. You can play other avenues like delves to get your gear and then you would play mythic plus to get your flare once skiing was over
@@mrj5202 that's basically challenge mode, the system that came before mythic plus haha. Don't think they will be considering that.
I had 2850 when I had 5x 12s and a 3x 10s (yes, my dungeons were all over the place).
Not understanding the increased rating requirement if there's barely a differerence at M+12 and up.
I think it will be a bigger difference there because they are removing the double scaling component.
It says at the top of that chart that the BASE difficulty is 122%. Guile adds 10%, so I assume the total increased difficulty will be 132%
Gotcha.
yeah from 12 onwards its just increments of 10, 132, 142...
Nice video. I made a general numbers spreadhseet and i think it will be about the same dificulty at 10, then much easier compared to season 1 from 11 onward. I will send you the sheet
Thanks!
why would someone who doesn't feel like being competitive or play well need a myth track gear from doing m+ ? this is the thing, what drives people into m+ is gear and rewards but up to a certain point is no longer that. what we see today is players playing like at +2 but at +10s , why ? because there is no incentive for you to be good, you still get 'your gear' even if that key is depleted. as you said, even trying 10 times, if i dont feel like learning , i just wont simply learn mechanics, why would i when i have 4 other people that can carry me for my gear. Gear is something you get and upgrade to take you into the next step of the challenge, not to do world quests lol ( blizz shows mercy after all, imagine it has to be timed keys for filling vault? ) but well , im curious to try and feel this changes myself. im a bit upset about the keystone legend change cause it was hard for me to pug 12s, got 4 now but i should be honestly doing 13s /14s by now. but with no network or friends interested... yikes. we will see how our pug live goes this time around, i have hope ! 😆
Well glad to hear you have hope. We will have more videos on this topic this weekend too.
Your the only mythic plus content creator that isn't agreeing with the community just for views. All the rest of them are. Nerfing dungeon mechanics for the players who can't progress and who aren't having fun is ridiculous. If these players aren't having fun, then they really have to ask themselves is mythic plus the game mode for them. To be honest, I don't understand why anybody would force themselves to do something that they aren't enjoying
Ya that's exactly how I feel about it too. I'm not sure why they even want to do keys in the first place if they are failing single digits.
i agree with some of this but some of it is just people wanting things to be easy and they get loot. people doing dungeons that dont really want to do them because they "have" to.
Right, that's the problem. They shouldn't be expecting to interface with the system that way. I don't want to do mythic raiding but it has some of the best gear in the game each season. Should I petition blizzard to change it to accommodate my interests?
Pah-Pow?
@@kopitarrules I am honestly thinking so, ya.
Pa Pow!
Correct.
I really have to disagree on you calling players that fail 7s "not skilled" instead of them having a lack of experience. For you at this point of the season of course a 7 is gonna be piss easy, it is for me as well, but if you play lower geared alts with pugs you can see how players can actually struggle there because gear cannot make the content easier for them.
What specifically is the disagreement then?
lack of experience correlates to lack of skill in the specific area. there's no shame in being bad, learning new concepts and working to improve your skill. 2-6 level keys are there to hone your SKILLS for a 7.
M+ is endgame content, you need to know basic game mechanics by the time you get there.
and again he is attacking pugs. Again he is being stupid and this kind of streamers should be banned from the game forever (Note: Please stop thinking about yourself)
i mean hes the issue in 90% of pug bricks lol, never in my life have i come close to bricking that many keys hes just lazy and expects 0 mistakes and 110% from everyone and 50% from him lol, he cant even track CDs
@@manuelaidos I hate this guy too, but I still watch every one of his videos.
Don't start a sentence with and. You might come off a little smarter.
You definitely didn't even watch the video. (Note: Please stop thinking about yourself)
Who?
the rewards are not good. this is my biggest complaint.150 gold for a 10+ key. harder than raiding....it doesn't make sense..anditsheroic gear if it drops.....
Ya sadly given the repeatability of the system, the rewards will never be outstanding without a system attached like titanforging. They had it perfect at one point and have only gone backwards since.