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"Reel" Frippertronics with Reel to Reel Tape Decks! (Ambient Guitar Techniques)
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- Опубликовано: 4 апр 2017
- Frippertronics - an ambient guitar delay technique popularized by Robert Fripp of King Crimson fame. Learn how to use a pair of reel to reel tape decks to create his signature tape loop delay sounds!
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Equipment used:
Carvin HF2 Allan Holdsworth Signature guitar
Wampler Ego Compressor amzn.to/2oY6z77
Strymon Riverside Overdrive
Morley Little Alligator Volume Pedal amzn.to/2oXZzqX
Teac A340 Tape Deck
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 firewire audio interface
Apple Logic Pro X
chords of orion - ambient/post-rock guitar music for the mind and heart.
bill vencil - guitars
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I've always found it amusing that Fripp - an absolute monster of a guitarist who has the most outstanding command of the instrument (I mean, Fracture...) also implemented this system, which - if we remove the technical aspects of the equipment - is a means by which a fairly average guitarist like myself (or, actually in my case a distinctly less-than-average guitarist...) can create beautiful music.
It really shows that Fripp really is about the sounds that he creates, not about the espousing his virtuosity.
For really long sustains, certain frequencies tend to cause feedback, and the schematic shown on Eno's "Discreet Music" album shows an equalizer in the feedback loop to cut those frequencies. A crazy version, which I've tried, stretches the tape across a room. Lots of flutter!
Nicely explained. At college in the 70s we had two Teacs in the music department and used to do this with them across the room from each other. Around '81 there was a guy in the village in NYC (forgot his name) who took the tape between the two recorders and passed it through a ring on a helium balloon. He did pitch and delay changes by raising and lowering the ring. Cool stuff.
Whoa, I would have liked to see the helium ballon technique!
Wow
Bob Ostertag is the artist you are thinking of… he inspired my sonic explorations with this tape system in the early 80s.
I recommend Bobs record with Fred Frith “getting a head”
@@brianfergus839 ...on the fine Rift Records label, also responsible for 'Cargo Cult Revival' LP, a Tom Cora/ David Moss collaboration.
@@whatevershebrings yeah I still have that LP, too 👍 wow… what a reference! The David Moss/Fred Frith concert I attended in 1980 was a huge “ear opener” for me, and inspired my move to a more alternative approach to musical performance.
Holy crap, I've been waiting for a GOOD tutorial on using Frippertronics forever. I just found this channel a month ago, this is awesome to see!
So glad you like it!!
Frippertronics and Holdsworth guitar! Thank you so much for connecting these two! Wow!
This is blowing my mind...I absolutely loved Fripp and Eno as an impressionable yoot. This is wonderful stuff and I'm feeling super nostalgic. Now I need to get a second reel to reel! Thanks!
highly appreciated your efforts. The Eno/Fripp sound is still unrivaled. Eno once stated that he digitally wanted to recreate the (tape loop based) sound of "Discreet Music" digitally and could not get to the sound, eventually giving up on the digital recreation.
Agreed! I love creating Frippertronics style effects with digital pedals, however, I have not yet heard one that sounds exactly like tape.
Probably foiled by the consistency of digital. Tape doesn't run very smoothly, there are little fluctuations in timing that make it not sync up with other tapes. Using digital looping, you couldn't get the inevitable variances of two tape machines working against each other like on Discreet Music.
@@noesunyoutuber7680 you can do that digitally with variations and randomizers. Tape has a certain sound and it not wow an flutter. It's like a natural compression when you hit it a tad harder than normal.
Super cool! Thank you You Tube for putting this in my Recommended and thank you for sharing Chords of Orion.
That tone on just the distortion and compresser wowzers beautiful in and of its self.
What a top chap. Really enjoy your channel/vids. Thanks
thanks for this vid!!! great explanation of this! really eye (and ear) opening!!! love your insights and have been watching for a while now. very inspiring.
That was an awesome demonstration. Its lots of fun seeing how the older technology works and always a lot of fun rigging together a project based on old technology. Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
I love your work. Thanks for sharing and teaching.
Brilliant, so interesting, great sound from the tape decks!
Very cool! You’ve inspired me to dig out my old reel to reels and give this a try.
Sounds great!!! The sustain alone from your guitar and drive before the delays were great too!
the look of joy on your face when you start to play is wonderful . loving your work Bill , keep inspiring .
I must admit to a certain amount of happiness when I am playing music. :-) Thanks so much for the encouragement!!!
Really cool Frippertronics demo, thanks!
Thank you for your investments and story. Good sound, fine musician.
So cool. Thanks for keeping Frippertrics alive bro!
Frippertronics*
I owned two TEAC reel-to-reel tape decks in the late 70's and discovered this technique then, but discovered soon after that Brian Eno had already used in on his Discreet Music release! No glory for me, except that I had an incredible time creating complex soundscapes and doing real "flanging". It was a hassle, though, so I'm glad to have entered the digital world!
Same here 🤛
Awesome video. Such a soaring sound.
This is exactly what RUclips is for. Brilliant stuff.
Very sweet, Mr. Chords of Origon :)
Nice! I saw Mr. Fripp do this LIVE, about 5 feet away in a record store in Albany NY.
Amazing sounds.
Sounds amazing!
It amazes me how many people don't realise that "tape delay" had anything to do with tape.
Oh man!!! That was AWESOME!!!
Thanks!
That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen
Guys were using sound on sound rtr decks for preamp boost and echo (Ritchie Blackmore). Fripp took it to studio scale for guitar. Very nice!
I can listen to this sound for eternity.
Thanks....really appreciate your videos. I learn a lot in just a short time
Glad it was useful for you!
It's amazing experiment!
This is excellent!
that is a very cool setup you have built there
NOTHING BEATS reel-to-reel. The music is textured you can almost feel it.
Great! I just did a fan with an old record player, in a hot summer: D
This tells me what I've been listening to for the past 47 years. Cool video.
Excellent!!
Very good.Thanks.
Totally dig your H2 Holdsworth. I had a pin stripe one and really liked it. Carvins were awesome/
Drooooool. Those tones.
This was awesome Bill. I've wanted to build one of these since I saw the tape delay diagram on the back of Brian Eno's Discrete Music. Thanks for doing this. - Harry
Glad you like it Harry!
Love it!!
Amazin' tones! Can't wait fer yer next video. I do hope to one day acquire the Strymon El Capistan to emulate that tone. And I did just acquire the TC Electronics Mimiq. It really makes my acoustic-electric guitars sound bigger. I really like that bigger sound a lot. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Really interesting video. I experimented with Frippertronics in the early 80s (using a keyboard). Unlike your setup, I merely used a looped tape between the 2 decks. I've always considered experimenting with this again, but alas I don't play anymore nor do I have easy access to reel-to-reel decks.
Grande Bill!
This is awesome. I'm going to run down to Guitar Center and pick up a couple of those reel to reel machines today!
:-)
This is awesome
My early eighties setup! Except I had mismatched reel to reels. Hauling to a gig was such fun!
Bravo. Grazie!
Amazing!
Beautiful
Oh me God! Tapes.... It's been a looong time since I used any tape recorder) Thanks Bill for that excursion to the past! Seems like there's some Frippertronics fever this year within Ambient Guitar RUclipsrs))) at least I'm getting deep with it
Awesome 👍 Its really impressive, and sound different, not like digital delay
Wow - I cannot imagine how long it took to attain these machines!
I've had both of these machines for many years, however, it's pretty easy to get a Teac A3440. I see them on eeay all the time.
Thanks Bill! This is quite interesting. I remember and liked King Crimson well, but at the time, the Frippertronics thing didn't grab me. You cleared up a hazy area in my understanding of "tape delays". I got the part about 2 decks, the first to record, the second to play, but I didn't realize about putting it back through an effects loop to keep re-recording the original delay. That makes a lot of sense now. We are lucky to be living in the time of "digital" tape delay.
It is a lot easier with newer delays for sure! But there is something visceral about tape spinning.
Good stuff.
Thanks for the tutorial. I saw/heard Robert Fripp with the latter incarnation of King Crimson at a medium size nightclub in Boston in the mid 1980's. It was a bit of a religious experience! My memory is foggy enough to prevent me from knowing if he was using a couple of R2R decks in his setup, but they may have been hidden from view, I look forward to trying this setup with electric bass . . . but I will need to convince a friend if I can borrow one of his R2R decks for the fun! Peace . . . keep making great tones.
nice, very nice.. I'm going to try this albeit with a teac x-3 and 2240.. should still produce a similar result.. also using synths and drums.. gotta love that fripp sound though
VERY interesting! Thanks very much!!!!
You are welcome!
Terry Riley.
A long time before Fripp.
(Fripp is erroneously credited with the 'invention' of this technique - in fact, it was developed - at Riley's behest - by a sound engineer working on a project with him in 1963. They dubbed it: 'Time-Lag Accumulator". Curved Air/Poppy Nogood came out in 1969 and was an epiphany for many musicians/composers of the time (Pete Townshend, Mike Oldfield etc.), particularly Eno who subsequently developed "Frippertronics" for Fripp.)
Thank you! I’m a huge Fripp fan, but I was about to post a similar correction … then I thought I’d scroll through the comments to see whether anyone else already done so, and I saw that you had.
It should also be noted that Mr. Fripp is quite generous, and very much a straight-shooter, and in the relative present I’ve seen him unselfishly credit Mr. Riley with the invention of this delay system many times.
Thank you for having posted your credit to Mr. Riley!!
You might lament that you don't have Revoxes to use but what you have allows for, now get this, *multi-tap delays*!!! On deck #1, take out 1 to in 2, out 2 to in 3, out 3 to in 4 and out 4 to in 1 of deck #2. Then do it all again on deck #2. If you "Y" your outputs, even if you select only some of them, you can send these extra outs to the PA mixer for your multi-taps. With aux sends on each PA channel, you can go crazy with selecting which track(s) get fed back (at varying intensities) to in 1 of deck 1. Now go nuts! :-)
Hey Bill - that would indeed be nuts!
Simple technology yet wonderfully weird. I have been a fan of Fripp since 1969. Brian Eno introduced the technique to Fripp in the spontaneous creation of The Heavenly Music Corporation on No Pussy Footing. The composer Terry Riley pioneered the technique with pieces like 'Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band' from the seminal album A Rainbow in Curved Air. I think it dates back to LeMont Young. Eno invited Fripp around to his apartment and simply plugged him in to the system with a minimum explanation of how it worked. A wonderful moment of spontaneous creation captured for posterity.
I learned about Robert Fripp and his tape delay style via David Sylvian and yeah its a cool thing.
Some information: Recently Audio Damage released Enso. A 4 section looper which functions as a Frippertronic device as well. Yesterday Valhalla DSP released a fantastic Delay plugin which also has a Frippertronic emulation on board besides a lot of other delay functions. I don't know if you use plugins but I thought it could be of some interest. Have a great time.
Thanks for the tips on the plugins. I was aware of the new Valhalla delay, but was not aware of the audio damage. will check it out!
I think one way to simulate using a pair of open reels using digital delays and a looper, is to use a stereo tube preamp in between the delay and the looper and a stereo parametric to filter the highs a bit. Open Reels usually had some preamp tubes in side. Many digital delays will have an analog type setting that allows you to filter the highs. Use a smaller mixer to do the feedback loop into the looper. I have a Teac 4 track and Teac 2 track. However they need some work before I could experiment with them. I really liked this video!
I like your idea. Definitely worth a try if you are looking for analog vibe in your looping!
Actually a top explnation .
Thanks a lot
You are welcome!
@@chordsoforion What about tyng to explain how Eno's"Discreet music" has been composed..I think you're one of the few that can do it..Thanks again!!
Nice 😎
Dope!
Wow Bill thanks for show us how this was at the bigginings
Cool video, Fripp, was a mad genius.
You can do this on an Electroharmonix Canyon Delay pedal. It has a tape delay on it that you can get close to that sound with the tape decaying ECT.
Fripp was ? He IS! He's still around.
Frippertronics started post King Crimson, *after* his intended retirement following his awakening experience and his ten months at Sherborne house, under the tutelage of J.G. Bennet, who had studied with Gurdjieff. According to Fripp, it started quite accidentally from a spontaneous invitation from Brian Eno to come visit him at his house. So, Frippertronics began approximately in 1975. Fripp details its origins in several interviews found in the King Crimson wiki aka Elephant Talk for those interested.
I think Fripp was under the tutelage of an intermediary who had himself been under the tutelage of J.G. Bennett, because while Bennett was a huge inspiration to Fripp (and Fripp cites him as such), I’m pretty sure Bennett had already died by the time Fripp got to Sherborne House, although only quite recently before. But yes to everything else you’ve written!
Bill that looks so fun! Thanks for the post. I especially like how you call out the "crunch distortion" on the loop decay. Curious how to recreate the "Let the Power Fall" sound with TC Electronic Ditto 4 (PS loved your Ditto 4 part 2 when you did Frippetronics there )or a Strymon El Capistan?
I remember that fateful day I got "Let the Power Fall" in high school after reading the Guitar Player interview and trying to get that insert to play on my turn table. I think Fripp was doing the Crafty Guitarist in NC. All the Cybernetic principles on the sleeve confused and confounded me in the most wonderful ways. That album One if not THE guitar mind melting moment of my life; Along with Evening Star of course but that came later for me :-)
I've got some ideas for the "Let the Power Fall" sound. To me, it sounds like Fripp used 2 channels of of the tape deck to achieve the left/right stereo slap. Will play around with the X4 and some delays to see if that can be reproduced.
interesting and fun to watch! Im also a fan of Fripp through Crimson as well as his work with Eno. Im suprised when people discuss this technique/method no one discusses Brian Mays work with Queen back in 73-74 on "Brighton Rock" and his live guitar solos since to me they are very similar but Fripp seems to get sole credit
Did he use the 2 tape deck method to create extended looped layers of delays? I went back and listened to Brighton Rock and it sounded like an he was using an Echoplex in the latter part of the song during the extended solo. Maybe I am incorrect on that?
Chords Of Orion yes absolutely..he did use an Echoplex youre correct...i guess i was just making reference to both of their unique approaches with multitracking/looping with surprise that they were never discussed together. Different approaches,but great creative players for sure!! two of my faves for sure!! thanks for the response and love your videos!
Makes me really appreciate my looper pedals
Definitely a little easier!
What a pleasure to watch those reels turn round and round and hear music. Hey man can I achieve echo with only 1 tape recorder? With a mixer
I wish Carvin still had their warehouse in San Diego. I should have bought a couple of their guitars back in the day.. they're like 10 times the price.. they made the best guitars what was I thinking
Hi,
I just so happen to have 2 teacs as well and would like to know how to connect the third channel to feedback the delay.
Thanks!
Could you try the Amulets method with Sony walkmans and a portastudio ?
Hi, I have a Teac A3340s tape deck like yours. What I would like to know is how could I connect just one deck up to a Vox AC30 guitar amp to get tape delay. The problem as you know is there are RCA jacks on the back of these Teac A3340s tape decks. Any advice on what to do here. I have a Yamaha 8 channel mixer , but the outputs are all +4db. Too hot to go directly into a Vox AC30 guitar amp. Thanks Michael Newell from Niagara Falls ,Ontario, Canada
So how do I get this from my mixer to my Marshall amp for a live setting. Cheers
This is your best video yet. Thanks soo much. I would love those reel to reels. Any where u. Could recommend me searching?
Glad you like the vid. As far as getting a tape deck, I have no specific suggestions, but if I were in the market, I would start with Ebay.
Chords Of Orion Don't ya mean eVILbay.....lol
But getting back to the Flippertronics, I way b4 this RUclips in the late 80s hooked up 2 teak deck, from memory the 2300 something 7" & a 3300 10" that I replaced the 240 vlt 2 speed capstain motor with a 18 v video motor with tacco feedback run off a modified driver board to allow variable speed from almost 30 ips down to 0 ips and reversible for the artists like John Michealle Jarre and Gorgio Morodar who with the track CHASE it through slowing down and 1-2 octaves plus reversing realised the amount of work put into just the VERY unique sounding backwards bell and twinkley sound when sped up and reversed to make it how the "norm" without much thought would hear it, no offense intended to anyone. I also used a graphic eq between the recording and fed back played signal from the 2nd deck with the variable to prevent harsh feedback when seeking a (at the time) thought was quite humble but affective echo. I nearly fell over when I came across your vid realizing I WASN'T ALONE. So owesome to go back down memory lane, cheers to you.
@@chordsoforion Try your local "craigs list"
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Don’t forget Brian Eno, who introduced Fripp to the technique. Haven’t you listened to Fripp and Zeno’s albums?
I wondered how this was done with tape decks. I nice example is on Fripps Exposure Album (Here comes the flood). Sounds bleak but really beautiful as well.
Saw Fripp on the original Frippertronics Soundscapes tour. Just him solo, in the old Bathurst St. church in Toronto. Yeah, mid-to-late 70's would be about right I guess. It was Eno who showed Fripp this setup though. A pair of geniuses at work.The Frippster used a pair of Studer-made Revoxes, but these TEACs are good machines. I'm sure a few 70's albums were probably self-producd on these home/semi-pro decks.
Just a suggestion, but instead of running the tape up and around four reels-why not just use the two outside ten-inchers, and simply separate the decks to vary the echo lengths? (I think that's how Bob did it- I have seen Eno do it that way.)
If you really wanna "Fripp-Out" get a guitar with a Fernandes sustainer built in like Fripp- or hos older method for unlimited sustain with an e-bow.
My reel-to-reel AKAI cost a fortune. I can't even begin to imagine the money you poured into your tape players. Wow.
A lot of comments about "why don't you just make a loop of tape?" One good reason not to do that is because of potential dropouts as the splice point passes the heads, especially if the splice is not made very carefully. A 2400' reel of tape that you reuse for the effect avoids that possibility. That gives you 32 minutes at 15 ips before you have to rewind.
The thing that occurred to me that you didn't really discuss was the idea of using both playback heads, not just the one on deck 2. If you feed the outputs of both decks into the mixer, you can create multiple delay times. Adding feedback from one deck or the other back into the signal, or feeding the record signal into both decks (disable the erase head on deck 2), different wet levels vs. dry, different EQ on different returns, panning the returns separately...SO much to play with here! Your Teac A-3440 decks, besides having two main speeds (7 1/2 ips and 15 ips) also have a pitch control. You'd have to adjust both machines to the same degree (rather tricky), and it will never be able to adjust delay times with the precision of a digital delay, but would give you some control along those lines as well.
One of the most impressive results I hear with this approach is that a guitar can be made to ring in a way that doesn't sound like a guitar; it sounds like some other-worldly bowed instrument, or an analog synthesizer, or -- I don't know what, but not a guitar. Amazing effects that even digital can't do. Tape saturation, wow & flutter, there's just a lot going on with an analog tape deck that gives it that unique sound. And you employ it very well. Thanks for a great demonstration!
I would imagine that as you are using 4 track machines you could actually record (but not erase) some short patterns to continually loop as well as doing delays?
Interesting demo many thanks, not a guitar player myself but imagining this with a nice old analogue synth👍
it would be possible if I was using an actual tape loop. In this case, I was taking up the tape on the right hand reel after recording and playing back.
Ah, of course, I missed that! I guess Mr Fripp had to factor in some rewind moments when performing!
But I guess you could pre record on a couple of tracks to enhance a performance, all academic now in the digital age but interesting to ponder.
Can someome explain me how he put the tape on the reels that way?
It really does remind me of the album 'The Essential Fripp & Eno'.
Cool!
Great Stuff! would you say that same tape machine is worth having if in good condition, to do a good production?
I guess it depends on the production. Many people would say that there are tape machines that are much better quality than the one in this video and will produce a better result.
You wouldn't happen to have a NOS set of Record and Playback heads you could part with for a 3440? Enjoyed your video!
Unfortunately no. There's a NOS record head on EBay right now!
Nice video! I used to do this over and over, with 2 cheap Sony Tape recorders. Probably ruined them because I went down on them reels with my fingers and started and stopped them, slowing down, speeding up, as the capstan and drive mechanism was sloppy and worn out. You know, like the DJ's did with vinyl records decades later, scrathing and so on. Only with reel.
What is forgotten (not that major gaffe though) is the short slapback delay of around 110 ms, that mr Fripp always produced with this two Revoxes. On the ONE tape deck, you have separate rec and playback head, and he used both the rec and playback head of the first unit too, to produce a very very short slapback delay that was totally dependent on the tape speed of the machine chosen. Now the playback head of the First machine did went into the mixer, but didn't produce any regenerations, so that one was just repeated once. But when it came back from the second unit, it went into the record head of the first unit again, and the playback head created the 110 ms slapback delay again. The "space" between the rec head, (direct signal) and the playback head is 110 ms depening on the machines speed. Double the speed and the "distance" between direct head, and playback head decreases. Like 55 ms. Halving the speed and you may end up with 220 ms short delay.
The signal going into the second tape unit with just the playback head didn't produce the slapback echo it was just heard on the "so called" direct signal. I e the short 110 ms slapback echo wasn't recorded/tracked. Later on when he played it all back and soloed over it, to some kind of backdrop to his improvisations, he soloed with a more direct sound sometimes, and sometimes - as when he played back, he only needed to use one machine - with the echo produced (the short 110 ms delay) on the first machine only. Using - of course - another reel of fresh virgin tape.
Tricky to understand, but the second unit never received any slapback of 110 ms delay. It was just heard to us and the player because of mixing it in to speaker/PA output or guitar amp. FWIW I don't know any digital delay pedal of today, or looper that are actually capable of this. You might have to buy two of them though...no problem.
Hmmm. I think the BOSS DD-500 might be able to do something like you describe. It can run 2 different delays in parallel. So D1 could be set to 110 ms and D2 set to 8-10 seconds and neither would interact with the other. Another pedal that comes to mind is the TC Electronic Flashback Triple Delay which can run up to 3 delay lines in parallel or series with times of up to 7 seconds - long enough for basic Frippertronics decaying loops. Let me know if that makes sense or if I misunderstood.
@@chordsoforion Great to hear! I wonder which of them are best for "frippertronics", the BOSS-DD500 or the TC Flashback Triple Delay? 7 seconds or 8-10 seconds delay with repeats is what is needed. Below 5 seconds and the "frippertronics" turns out a tad too short imho. 16 seconds, and 32 seconds, tends to get too long and only valid in looper mode. I like what you said "basic Frippertronic decaying loops". That's good enough for me. What I need, with all delay pedals, is that hold/infinite repeat function.
On a looper pedal the first rounds of overdubs doesn't detoriate, so you're just adding on top of something with the same volume over and over. I want the first rounds to sound faintly as far away as possible. With a detoriating treble and maybe a tape wobble, flutter added on top. So actual looper pedals aren't really suitable for these kind of things...
Oh BTW, while we're at it. Regarding the DD-500 and the "hold" function when using 10 second delay... it it possible to freeze, hold it, when removing the foot from the footswitch? is it possible to do this with upgraded firmware? I heard they had a new version firmware coming in a couple of months back.
MatsOrbation you are raising some interesting questions for sure. I am now officially in the mood to get the DD -500 back out. Give me a few weeks and I will try to post a vid exploring some of the things you have brought up.
@@chordsoforion No you didn't misunderstood, thank you, it makes very much sense. 7 seconds on TC Electronic Flashback Triple Delay? Hmmm.. can you lock it? Like press "HOLD" or "FREEZE" so the loops goes around without any new input in the loop? I mean, improv and jam on top of it...?
Thank you. Standout demo! The guitar tone is almost a clone ( Evening Star ). What compressor/ fuzz are you using for this sweet sound...
Glad you liked the vid! The compressor is the Wampler Ego and the overdrive is the Strymon Riverside.
What you should try is bypassing the erase head on your recording tape deck so that you can create infinite ambient loops. It can be super fun, and you can move the tape decks further apart to create longer loops.
I used to put tape over the erase head in the old days from time to time... and absolutely - moving the tape decks further apart work for longer loops.
...YEAH ... I play my frippertronics on a modern delay but I like to use my Revox A 77........greetings from 2 musicians (sitar & tanpura) from germany.........(maria&harald,the nectar of the night)...
Nice that you have a Revox! And greetings back to you from the USA!
this rules
Gde mogu nabaviti tako dobar uređaj za upotrebu
Imam 100 snimljeni traka na uheru koji je u kvaru.
Could you therotically use more tape machines to make longer delay?
Perhaps. If you could get a clean tape path. Also, you would have more playback heads to add to the mix, which might be cool.