I dont think I've ever listened to such a literate,intelligent, compassionate,brave human being as Christopher Hitchens. My big regret is that I did not know of his existence sooner than I did. A truly remarkable human being!!!
I totally agree. I became aware of him when he was on the news absolutely roasting Jerry Falwell on the occasion of his death. What a wonderful wake up call that was.
This is action-packed. RUclips has done wonders for entertainment and education. Watching videos like this has become one of my favorite pastimes in the past several years.
That man had long since forgotten more about this topic than his opposition, combined, had ever learned. He didn't need notes. To expect them to hold their own against him would be like handing a toddler a pair of boxing gloves and telling them to knock out Mike Tyson.
All the issues that both Christopher and Stephen brought up back then have not been addressed by the said catholic church. Infact they have been ignored. Not good enough I say. As a former catholic I fully concur with every thing both gentle men say.
@@tatsumaru1970 sounds just like the Catholic Church, you can condemn someone for doing something such as spelling his name wrong, which is part of grammar, but can't take it when pointed out that you are doing the same thing.
1) I thought Stephen Fry's comment (ending with "What are you for?!?!", just shy of 47 minutes) was extraordinarily powerful and powerfully put. He's exceptional. 2) I'm always amazed that with so much time to prepare a question, audience members are ALWAYS so long-winded.
I loved Stephen Fry's speach, it was not full of propaganda and he wasn't trying to force me to believe anything and at the same time he took time to say that he wasn't hating solely on the catholic church. He also showed respect of people who believe and are spiritual in some way. He is genuinely intelligent and very well spoken. He deserved a standing ovation
Wow that was like watching Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen playing two-on-two against Jared from Subway and my grandmother. I haven't seen an ass-kicking like that since Rocky IV.
This debate never gets old. What devastation of the believers in the supernatural. This video is valuable lesson for everyone. Everyone should hear it.
Imagine having Stephen Fry as a babysitter. If I get cancer, having an extended conversation with him would be on my bucket list (it is anyway). I really miss Hitchens. Watching his brother on The Big Questions really makes me despair of our society.
The closest thing to a verbal knockout you are ever going to see - if the Catholic faith was a boxer it would have to announce its retirement after being rushed to hospital !
My love of Stephen Fry brought me here and this introduced me to Christopher Hitchens,someone i admire now very much.Very grateful, Thank you to the uploader.
its sexual frustration . She doesnt "lie back and think of England" She lies back and thinks of hell-fire and brimstone . Anyone ever seen The Ecstasy of Saint Theresa ? ( "pierced by an angels Fiery DART " ??? ) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_of_Saint_Teresa Get the close up of her
Ironically , If this was 500 years ago , the very church shes defending would burn her as a witch (simply for having views ) (sorry , the last "witch" was burnt in Scotland in - i think - 1770 )
Intelligence2: Hey, Catholic Church, would you like to participate in an interesting debate, essentially defending your entire ideology? Catholic Church: Sure, sounds fun! This should be easy I2: Great! CC: Where is it being held? I2: London... any concerns? CC: Nope! I2: You can send two representatives. CC: Great. To show our vast diversity, we will send an unintelligible black Bishop from Africa, and a raving, senile, ancient white woman. Should be easy! CC: Oh, btw, who are they debating? I2: Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry CC: Shit.
47:30 Moderator: ''Did Jesus actually say anything about homosexuality?" Bisschop: ''That's a wrong question in this regard'' Audience: ''BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO". What an _excellent audience_! Dodging questions in a debate should always be met with loud ''BOO's''! Jesus either did or he did not, it's a simple question really.
the law states that its an abomination punishable by death - Jesus himself said he had not come to change the OT laws but to fulfil them and that not one jot or iota should be changed....so by extension he's approves of the stoning of homosexuals otherwise he would have said - that law is wrong - they love each other and I approve....but he didn't.
haiggoh most Christian cant name them . Most christians think "thou shall not kill" is number one . Commandments about Art were more important to moses . Killing ......is way down the list at number 6
Oliver Phelan The lame excuse I usually hear for that is "they're in no particular order and all equally important". Yeah sure. Even if that were the case, not working on the seventh day of the week and not speaking out his name was apparently more important than slavery and rape. And the graven image thing... Just take a look at the gigantic Jesus statue in Rio and you see the typical Christian hypocrisy. Nuff said.
haiggoh Did he mention that the graven image ban ....has an extra little clause ? It adds , almost as an afterthought , that " No graven images on Earth .....aaaannnnddddd ,,,,,,NONE UNDER WATER EITHER !!! The "graven image" thing actually persisted (in a form) right up through the renaissance . Thats the ban on Icons . Icons (probably the best religious art) were considered holy in themselves , so people worshiped the object as much as what it represented . So they became "heresy" But Poussin , in the Judgement of Solomon (google images) very cleverly defied it and created an icon right under their noses
Two brilliant people have taught me some of the greatest lessons and values. Christopher hitchens; stand up for truth, question everything, the great grasp of the English language and how to argue most efficiently. George Carlin: For, again, speaking the absolute truth, finding tranquility in disconnecting oneself from the world and keeping a sense of humour everywhere you go. Their teachings will live on throughout my life! RIP
+rufi saballa If witches existed, and if they looked like her and sounded like her, I'd easily fall madly and instantly in love with one. That is if, by the lady, you mean Zeinab Badawi who chaired this event. On the other hand, if you mean Ann Widdecombe....well....enough said ;)
I have a little wry smile when you hear the "evil" atheist talking about love for all humanity and the so called "angelic" church people spitting hatred and always defending themselves, never preaching love.
I was raised as a Catholic and was an alter boy. Realizing these things about everything you believed in and were taught was true and right is absolutely destroying, If you weren't raised like that you have no idea how it feels. I've questioned things for the past few years and Fry and Hitchens articulate my sentiments more or less exactly. I can only apologize for the myriad awful things done by this institution but most Catholics around the world are good people. Blame those at the top.
Adultery was a sin because it was thought of as theft. A woman was property, and someone else was using it. There's still a lot of that notion about, sadly.
+The Mudpit so, how does your explanation count for the fact that adultery was equally be regarded as being committed by a cheating husband? A nice theory....but one that breaks down on cursory examination.
@@klynch5156 I think you'll find that in biblical times no woman would have been a position to prosecute her husband for adultery. For things to be fair both sexes would have to have equal standing, whether in court or in society and in those days women had no such standing.
If it's a criminal offence, the state brings the prosecution, not the individual. Individuals generally sue for civil redress, if they want to go down the legal route (and there are very good reasons not to bother, sadly) There is such a thing as a private prosecution, but they are rare. But yeah, in general terms, you make a very good point - what woman would have reported her husband in the first place...fearing retribution and all that. Yep.
this, "debate" was horrible. it was like 20 questions, and no answers to those questions. no one got a chance to answer the questions. that moderator was horrible.
This was the first debate I watched while still a Christian(not Catholic, but Christian). The second debate I ever watched was in full support of Hitchens and others on the secular side of the argument.
I love how they had a metric to show the change in public opinion during the debate. I think the US should hold more debates and have a similar system of measurement.
Better if two of the speakers had more time, perhaps. Widdecoombe and her sidekick shouldn’t be ‘speaking’ anyway. Who needs more of that ludicrous drivel?
An incredibly interesting debate, but the time frame was waaay too short, forcing the mediator to stunt the debate at the end there, just as it was getting really interesting. They should have had twice as much time - at the very least.
voslyn That still wouldn't change that the moderator was having to cut the speakers short. Even if the actual event WAS longer than what is shown in this video.
voslyn Thanks for the tip, just found it! I didn't realize there was a longer version out there! =) Like Cyllid mentioned the time frame was still too short, but the fact that they gave them two instead of a measly one hour does make a difference.
Is this the way Intelligence Squared events typically go? The moderator took like a dozen or so comments and questions and then was like "okay, now incorporate your answers into your closing statements".
What astonished me - even taking into account the quality of argumentation of Fry and Hitchens - is that so many audience members changed their minds in the space of an hour. If they were honest in their opinion at the start and at the end it raises the question of how they hadn't formed a more solid opinion themselves outside of the debate - the arguments from either side are, after all, nothing spectacularly new.
+Daniel Kirby perhaps hearing these dolts bumble about, not being able to answer any single question with a straight forward answer and refused to even acknowledge any sort of wrongdoing. It was despicable and shameful. Listening to these articulate men (Hitchens and Fry) present these arguments in such coherent and brilliant ways certainly have the ability to reach people who haven't bothered to think critically about the church. Keep in mind that those who voted "for" the motion were not necessarily Catholics, or even Christians.
Fry and Hitch absolutely trounced the hapless Bishop and Miss Widdecombe. Absolutely nothing of substance whatsoever from the Catholic side. Right from the start the Bishop was clearly way out of his depth and thought he was lecturing the sheep who fawn over him every Sunday. Whereas, the opposition and audience were clearly well informed, intelligent and capable of distinguishing dogma from reason.
We all die and stay dead. No exceptions. That's why it would be such a terrible waste to live your life in service to bigots, afraid of ticking them off. Live your life as a happy, productive and loving human being, and it won't be wasted. We are guests at a wonderful party, but we will be eventually asked to leave, and the party will continue without us. How pathetic and greedy must one be to insist that that's not enough? There are good people and there are bad ones. For good people to turn bad they need religion. Facts are what we know, not what we don't know. Science is about what we know. It is accepted as the best available truth we have, based on evidence, not faith.
I believe that God is now leading his people beyond formalised religions though this will unfold gradually. I know my elderly relatives who lived in great poverty and lack of education got great comfort from their catholic religion. When tragedy struck they turned to the church for comfort and it got them through. Everyone needs a portal to connect to their spirituality and in those times this was the only one they knew. These simple devout people have brought us to where we are today ready to spiritually evolve to a higher wisdom.
Wow the lady looks so strict... She's scary... Basically all 4 people in the panel worked torwards the point of hitchens and fry, with the main difference being that the priest and the lady actually showed it in practice with their speaches. They sabotaged their own point :)
And dear Archbishop, I have been on a citytrip to Rome and Vatican. What do they need a Egyptian collection for? What do they need so many ancient greek statues for? What in the hell do they need gift shops for? Money Archbishop. Money.
It annoys me that Widdecombe, quickly gliding over the issues of condoms and child abuse, is so happy to talk about the Catholic Church being 'charitable', pouring money into overseas aid and so on. Is that what a Church is really for? Do we not have purposely-founded charities and dedicated philanthropists with the exact same agenda in mind? As Hitchens points out, It's a weak attempt to compensate for the evils of the Church over the years.
World's WORST moderator. Waving her arms around like she's doing a Richard Simmons exercise routine; insisting on taking all the audience's question at once but refusing to allow them to be answered; then instructing the debaters to "try to incorporate their answers to the audience's questions" into their final statements. Not to mention that she allowed audience members to "comment" ad nauseum (for their 15 seconds of fame, I guess) instead of acting as moderator and telling the audience at the outset that this was a Q & A only. Shame on Intelligence Squared for enlisting this clown.
The amount of self hatred and cognitive dissonance must be astonishing in that woman xD To leave the church in protest over letting her own gender be priests, and join an even more misogynistic institution is a simply breathtaking xD
bahahahaha at 35:00 or so she claims "there's no sex in the creed", then a moment later goes on to list the 10 commandments, including the "no adultery" one. What a fail. Catholic Church is NOT a force for good.
If you actually seriously look at what Catholics MUST believe in order to follow their religion you would have to be absolutely bat shit nuts. I don't know why people feel this need to show respect to priests and clergy and religiousness. I think its all flat out total nonsense and it has nothing to do with being a good person.
Oh dear.. this was a slaughter. The Archbishop was unfortunately nowhere near the same level as the 3 other speakers. I was happily surprised by Stephen Fry though. What a spot on, intelligent, rethorical and well argumentet debate from his side. And Hitchens was of course bad ass as usual ;)
Oh my, the English politician starts out by not defending her faith, (recent convert) but by attacking the other speaker, I have nothing but respect for those who believe in any religion,but when you are talking about an organisation that knew about Kristalnacht and has proven links to bankers involved with the Mafia, only last year were bank accounts found, The Gospels from which the church preach at there earliest where written 600 years after Christ was born. The King James Bible was written between 1604 -1611. people I would advocate live you life be good to your fellow humans, have fun be nice what else is there?
Completely agree.. She interrupts while the speaker is delving deeply into the subject.. You have to tactfully transition between speakers instead of jarringly disrupting them.
Here is what the Bible says about women becoming priests in the Church: "Orderly Worship …33for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…(1 Corinthians 14:34...)"
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hitchslapped, then deepFryed.
+Hypogonadism Brillant!
+Hypogonadism underrated comment
damn... that's a bit of genius
Hypogonadism i like that
hahahaha I was going to comment on his name as well.
Very punny, good job.
I dont think I've ever listened to such a literate,intelligent, compassionate,brave human being as Christopher Hitchens. My big regret is that I did not know of his existence sooner than I did. A truly remarkable human being!!!
1wannabee1 you said it all.
I totally agree. I became aware of him when he was on the news absolutely roasting Jerry Falwell on the occasion of his death. What a wonderful wake up call that was.
This is action-packed. RUclips has done wonders for entertainment and education. Watching videos like this has become one of my favorite pastimes in the past several years.
Christopher Hitchens wasn't writing down notes, he was just doing a crossword and tic tac toe
// Scarlet
Fuwa ./. Q
That man had long since forgotten more about this topic than his opposition, combined, had ever learned. He didn't need notes. To expect them to hold their own against him would be like handing a toddler a pair of boxing gloves and telling them to knock out Mike Tyson.
I tear up every time I listen to Christopher's closing statement. What a brilliant man he was.
I love that Hitchens is bold enough to demand apologies from people
Anne Widdecombe sounds like a Monty Python cast member masquerading as a woman.
collinm1342 “he’s not the messiah he’s a very naughty boy!!!!!”
Asshole. I missed a good 5-minutes of the debate laughing at that.
😂😂😂😂😂
"The admission Galileo was right" hahaha losing my shit already. Christopher Hitchens, the toppest of top blokes.
A truly brutal intellectual curb-stomping by Fry and Hitch. Outstanding!
the church was slaughtered so violently the moderator felt she had to apologize, brilliant.
One of the greatest Hitchslaps of all times, with a side of Fry.
Stephen Fry you majestic human being. There is no way you will ever say anything stupid or irrational. I fucking love this man.
I'm fairly certain Steven Fry could convince me that I'm actually an elephant if he really wanted to
JD21 But he doesn't. And that's the point!
Chuck Norris and Steven Fry agreed to fight. Norris with kicks and punches, Fry with words. It is said that the fight is still going on.
All the issues that both Christopher and Stephen brought up back then have not been addressed by the said catholic church. Infact they have been ignored. Not good enough I say. As a former catholic I fully concur with every thing both gentle men say.
Such a beautiful argued debate, it should be repeated regularly on television to keep people thinking
I wish i was half as good as Steven Fry at articulating words.
you should start at learning how his name is spelled
taulant morina or even better, start by... or start with...
taulant morina fucking grammar police. Get a grip
Spelling =/= Grammar.
@@tatsumaru1970 sounds just like the Catholic Church, you can condemn someone for doing something such as spelling his name wrong, which is part of grammar, but can't take it when pointed out that you are doing the same thing.
1) I thought Stephen Fry's comment (ending with "What are you for?!?!", just shy of 47 minutes) was extraordinarily powerful and powerfully put. He's exceptional.
2) I'm always amazed that with so much time to prepare a question, audience members are ALWAYS so long-winded.
I loved Stephen Fry's speach, it was not full of propaganda and he wasn't trying to force me to believe anything and at the same time he took time to say that he wasn't hating solely on the catholic church. He also showed respect of people who believe and are spiritual in some way. He is genuinely intelligent and very well spoken. He deserved a standing ovation
Wow that was like watching Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen playing two-on-two against Jared from Subway and my grandmother. I haven't seen an ass-kicking like that since Rocky IV.
This debate never gets old. What devastation of the believers in the supernatural. This video is valuable lesson for everyone. Everyone should hear it.
I'll never get tired of seeing Anne Widdecombe's face when they read out the result.
This wasn't a debate, this was carnage! Hitchens and Fry have have such ferocity that lions and tigers would envy them. :)
Imagine having Stephen Fry as a babysitter. If I get cancer, having an extended conversation with him would be on my bucket list (it is anyway).
I really miss Hitchens. Watching his brother on The Big Questions really makes me despair of our society.
The closest thing to a verbal knockout you are ever going to see - if the Catholic faith was a boxer it would have to announce its retirement after being rushed to hospital !
I love how Fry and Hitchens walked off without shaking their opponents hands lol
That woman's voice should be ilegal
seriously, we had to skip her speaking for the most part 🤢
how can anyone denie what hitchens and fry just said.
My love of Stephen Fry brought me here and this introduced me to Christopher Hitchens,someone i admire now very much.Very grateful, Thank you to the uploader.
Could someone PLEASE shut her up! I can't stand voices that high!
its sexual frustration .
She doesnt "lie back and think of England"
She lies back and thinks of hell-fire and brimstone
.
Anyone ever seen The Ecstasy of Saint Theresa ? ( "pierced by an angels Fiery DART " ??? )
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_of_Saint_Teresa
Get the close up of her
Ironically , If this was 500 years ago , the very church shes defending would burn her as a witch (simply for having views )
(sorry , the last "witch" was burnt in Scotland in - i think - 1770 )
It isn't just the pitch it's that she sounds like nails on a chalkboard. That or a cat in a blender. Not quite sure yet.
Nineball WoT
its a castrato
Nineball WoT
some people call it bile .
Shakespeare called it spleen ( i think )
Intelligence2: Hey, Catholic Church, would you like to participate in an interesting debate, essentially defending your entire ideology? Catholic Church: Sure, sounds fun! This should be easy I2: Great! CC: Where is it being held? I2: London... any concerns? CC: Nope! I2: You can send two representatives. CC: Great. To show our vast diversity, we will send an unintelligible black Bishop from Africa, and a raving, senile, ancient white woman. Should be easy! CC: Oh, btw, who are they debating? I2: Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry CC: Shit.
Morgan B hahaha brilliant!
47:30
Moderator: ''Did Jesus actually say anything about homosexuality?"
Bisschop: ''That's a wrong question in this regard''
Audience: ''BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO".
What an _excellent audience_! Dodging questions in a debate should always be met with loud ''BOO's''! Jesus either did or he did not, it's a simple question really.
"uhh, uhh, uhhh this is the wrong question.."
He answered by not answering .
From what I remember Jesus said that they will not inherit the kingdom of God .
the law states that its an abomination punishable by death - Jesus himself said he had not come to change the OT laws but to fulfil them and that not one jot or iota should be changed....so by extension he's approves of the stoning of homosexuals otherwise he would have said - that law is wrong - they love each other and I approve....but he didn't.
not for or against it I dont believe
Richard Voyer But... where you actually there to prove it? :000
😂😂
11years later & still puts a smile on my face!
"and against the motion, it's now 1876."
Faith in Humanity: RESTORED!
TheShockmaster yep, it's the most assured I've felt in recent years...
Hitchens was a sharp and bright mind. Rest in peace..
Christopher Hitchens is enjoying himself more than a child at christmas during the q and a
would have loved to hear more about the 10 commandments though, too bad she didn't let him finish
haiggoh
most Christian cant name them .
Most christians think "thou shall not kill" is number one .
Commandments about Art were more important to moses .
Killing ......is way down the list at number 6
Oliver Phelan The lame excuse I usually hear for that is "they're in no particular order and all equally important". Yeah sure. Even if that were the case, not working on the seventh day of the week and not speaking out his name was apparently more important than slavery and rape. And the graven image thing... Just take a look at the gigantic Jesus statue in Rio and you see the typical Christian hypocrisy. Nuff said.
haiggoh
Did he mention that the graven image ban ....has an extra little clause ?
It adds , almost as an afterthought , that " No graven images on Earth .....aaaannnnddddd ,,,,,,NONE UNDER WATER EITHER !!!
The "graven image" thing actually persisted (in a form) right up through the renaissance .
Thats the ban on Icons .
Icons (probably the best religious art) were considered holy in themselves , so people worshiped the object as much as what it represented .
So they became "heresy"
But Poussin , in the Judgement of Solomon (google images) very cleverly defied it and created an icon right under their noses
Oliver Phelan
Don't ask that christians be consistent, you may as well ask them to intellectually honest. Never going to happen.
you're totally right there. They re the titans of argument and literacy- heroes in a way.
Long remember Christopher Hitchens!
Wow! This is Christopher Hitchens at his best! I can't believe I haven't seen this debate before.
The moderator is beyond frustrating. And I completely agree with Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens.
Worst moderator ever. Stop taking a thousand questions and allow for back and forth. This was hardly a debate.
Two brilliant people have taught me some of the greatest lessons and values. Christopher hitchens; stand up for truth, question everything, the great grasp of the English language and how to argue most efficiently. George Carlin: For, again, speaking the absolute truth, finding tranquility in disconnecting oneself from the world and keeping a sense of humour everywhere you go. Their teachings will live on throughout my life! RIP
This "moderator" was one of the worst I've ever heard.
The voice of the lady sounds like that of a witch's.
+rufi saballa The "lady" is one of Britain's most highly respected journalists and TV presenters - look her up on Wikipedia.
+rufi saballa If witches existed, and if they looked like her and sounded like her, I'd easily fall madly and instantly in love with one. That is if, by the lady, you mean Zeinab Badawi who chaired this event. On the other hand, if you mean Ann Widdecombe....well....enough said ;)
BlueBaron3339 Im referring to the old lady in the thumbnail.
+rufi saballa learn how to understand when a comment is made rhetorically
+rufi saballa I heard she speaks with a witches broom up her ass when she must defend religion.
Its like watching a higher intelegence alien life form who mastered the manipulation of space and time, speak to a neanderthal
bravo ......that is exactly whats going on
That is incredibly insulting to the neanderthals!
+Pedro Silva oh man...my friend...you described astonishingly well ... indeed it is.!!!
Neanderthals are our kindred. We certainly are not among the ones that have mastered the manipulation of space and time.
I absolutely love the way Hitchens says "MY FRIEND, Stephen Fry." every time.
the results were epic own age!!!
Christopher Hitchens is truly is an intellectual force to be reckoned with
Epic pwnage. Fantastic crowd.
I have a little wry smile when you hear the "evil" atheist talking about love for all humanity and the so called "angelic" church people spitting hatred and always defending themselves, never preaching love.
Hitchens is missed....his voice is as powerful after his death as it was in life
When I read your comment I couldn't wait to hear her voice.
I almost died laughing when she spoke her first words! :D
So spot on.
Hitchens would have got a standing ovation from me. What a legend. R.I.P Christopher.
"Condoms, they came in the end". Thank you Anne Widdecombe for my new favorite quote. 19:18
Worst moderator ever.
Even if God himself moderated this debate, the side for the Catholic Church would still lose.
Foo Yang
lol, agreed.
She had a hard job.
The chairman of this debate should never be allowed to do this again.
I was raised as a Catholic and was an alter boy. Realizing these things about everything you believed in and were taught was true and right is absolutely destroying, If you weren't raised like that you have no idea how it feels. I've questioned things for the past few years and Fry and Hitchens articulate my sentiments more or less exactly. I can only apologize for the myriad awful things done by this institution but most Catholics around the world are good people. Blame those at the top.
Adultery was a sin because it was thought of as theft. A woman was property, and someone else was using it. There's still a lot of that notion about, sadly.
+The Mudpit so, how does your explanation count for the fact that adultery was equally be regarded as being committed by a cheating husband? A nice theory....but one that breaks down on cursory examination.
Kevin J. Lynch Good point.
@@klynch5156 I think you'll find that in biblical times no woman would have been a position to prosecute her husband for adultery. For things to be fair both sexes would have to have equal standing, whether in court or in society and in those days women had no such standing.
If it's a criminal offence, the state brings the prosecution, not the individual. Individuals generally sue for civil redress, if they want to go down the legal route (and there are very good reasons not to bother, sadly) There is such a thing as a private prosecution, but they are rare. But yeah, in general terms, you make a very good point - what woman would have reported her husband in the first place...fearing retribution and all that. Yep.
this, "debate" was horrible. it was like 20 questions, and no answers to those questions. no one got a chance to answer the questions. that moderator was horrible.
This was the first debate I watched while still a Christian(not Catholic, but Christian). The second debate I ever watched was in full support of Hitchens and others on the secular side of the argument.
I love how they had a metric to show the change in public opinion during the debate. I think the US should hold more debates and have a similar system of measurement.
it would have been a much better debate, if the four speakers had more time to talk, instead of the audience
they did, this is half the event! here is the whole thingruclips.net/video/JZRcYaAYWg4/видео.html
Thanks jon fromtheUK, I wish I'd known that earlier. I had to go and watch that (the atheist bits, that is) to see what I'd missed.
Better if two of the speakers had more time, perhaps. Widdecoombe and her sidekick shouldn’t be ‘speaking’ anyway. Who needs more of that ludicrous drivel?
An incredibly interesting debate, but the time frame was waaay too short, forcing the mediator to stunt the debate at the end there, just as it was getting really interesting. They should have had twice as much time - at the very least.
There is a video of this debate on youtube that is 2 hours
voslyn That still wouldn't change that the moderator was having to cut the speakers short. Even if the actual event WAS longer than what is shown in this video.
Righto - I just wasn't sure if you'd seen the 2 hour version so I wanted to spread the good news as it were.
I'm not the person you were responding to, just pointing out a problem with your solution.
voslyn Thanks for the tip, just found it! I didn't realize there was a longer version out there! =) Like Cyllid mentioned the time frame was still too short, but the fact that they gave them two instead of a measly one hour does make a difference.
The world is a much poorer place without Christopher Hitchens in it.
To skip the logical fallacies and bullshit,
7:44 hitchens
21:05 fry
Zeinab Badawi should be bitterly, bitterly ashamed with how poorly she chaired this debate. Absolutely shocking.
There was no 'debate' here, just a one hour, three minute and thirty six second arse smacking of almighty proportions.
Why the debate even continued after Hitch's opening statements is beyond me. How do you come back from that?
Is this the way Intelligence Squared events typically go? The moderator took like a dozen or so comments and questions and then was like "okay, now incorporate your answers into your closing statements".
What an infuriating mediator
yeah i think we know which team she is on.
***** ikr
She was great , can’t stand people waffling on , get to the fuckin point !
Stephen Fry is a legend!!!
please put subtitles under this video! in EVERY language. This should be discussed in schools
What astonished me - even taking into account the quality of argumentation of Fry and Hitchens - is that so many audience members changed their minds in the space of an hour. If they were honest in their opinion at the start and at the end it raises the question of how they hadn't formed a more solid opinion themselves outside of the debate - the arguments from either side are, after all, nothing spectacularly new.
+Daniel Kirby perhaps hearing these dolts bumble about, not being able to answer any single question with a straight forward answer and refused to even acknowledge any sort of wrongdoing. It was despicable and shameful. Listening to these articulate men (Hitchens and Fry) present these arguments in such coherent and brilliant ways certainly have the ability to reach people who haven't bothered to think critically about the church. Keep in mind that those who voted "for" the motion were not necessarily Catholics, or even Christians.
Fry and Hitch absolutely trounced the hapless Bishop and Miss Widdecombe. Absolutely nothing of substance whatsoever from the Catholic side. Right from the start the Bishop was clearly way out of his depth and thought he was lecturing the sheep who fawn over him every Sunday. Whereas, the opposition and audience were clearly well informed, intelligent and capable of distinguishing dogma from reason.
27:03 It looks like Richard Dawkins closest to the camera! Awesome!
The Bishop was a fool and Witless well nuff said.
We all die and stay dead. No exceptions. That's why it would be such a terrible waste to live your life in service to bigots, afraid of ticking them off. Live your life as a happy, productive and loving human being, and it won't be wasted. We are guests at a wonderful party, but we will be eventually asked to leave, and the party will continue without us. How pathetic and greedy must one be to insist that that's not enough? There are good people and there are bad ones. For good people to turn bad they need religion. Facts are what we know, not what we don't know. Science is about what we know. It is accepted as the best available truth we have, based on evidence, not faith.
😀 i like you haha
Another interesting debate ruined, as usual, by an incompetent chair who thinks the audience came to hear her rather than the speakers.
Oh my god I could barely listen to that woman speak, her voice was so grating.
I believe that God is now leading his people beyond formalised religions though this will unfold gradually. I know my elderly relatives who lived in great poverty and lack of education got great comfort from their catholic religion. When tragedy struck they turned to the church for comfort and it got them through. Everyone needs a portal to connect to their spirituality and in those times this was the only one they knew.
These simple devout people have brought us to where we are today ready to spiritually evolve to a higher wisdom.
Wow the lady looks so strict... She's scary...
Basically all 4 people in the panel worked torwards the point of hitchens and fry, with the main difference being that
the priest and the lady actually showed it in practice with their speaches.
They sabotaged their own point :)
And dear Archbishop, I have been on a citytrip to Rome and Vatican. What do they need a Egyptian collection for? What do they need so many ancient greek statues for? What in the hell do they need gift shops for?
Money Archbishop. Money.
Fucking bravo Fry and Hitchens
I just was giving this link to this vid here to a good friend of me, i am sure he is pleased with the outcome.
It annoys me that Widdecombe, quickly gliding over the issues of condoms and child abuse, is so happy to talk about the Catholic Church being 'charitable', pouring money into overseas aid and so on. Is that what a Church is really for? Do we not have purposely-founded charities and dedicated philanthropists with the exact same agenda in mind? As Hitchens points out, It's a weak attempt to compensate for the evils of the Church over the years.
The Catholics lost when Ann Widdecombe got up ... wait ... I mean, when she joined up.
World's WORST moderator. Waving her arms around like she's doing a Richard Simmons exercise routine; insisting on taking all the audience's question at once but refusing to allow them to be answered; then instructing the debaters to "try to incorporate their answers to the audience's questions" into their final statements.
Not to mention that she allowed audience members to "comment" ad nauseum (for their 15 seconds of fame, I guess) instead of acting as moderator and telling the audience at the outset that this was a Q & A only. Shame on Intelligence Squared for enlisting this clown.
Fry is bringing the house down!
As Ali G would say "Big up to me main man's Fay & Hitch"
what is Hyacinth bucket doing arguing with Hitchens? most annoying voice on record
The amount of self hatred and cognitive dissonance must be astonishing in that woman xD To leave the church in protest over letting her own gender be priests, and join an even more misogynistic institution is a simply breathtaking xD
This is not fair, two brilliant thinkers vs two religious fools.
I can't stand Ann Widdecombe. Such an irritating voice.
She's like that little dot of evil in a person's heart. :)
Her voice is probably the least offensive thing about her. Ghastly woman.
bahahahaha at 35:00 or so she claims "there's no sex in the creed", then a moment later goes on to list the 10 commandments, including the "no adultery" one. What a fail. Catholic Church is NOT a force for good.
sex is mentioned in the creed though. "conceived by the Holy Spirit"
If you actually seriously look at what Catholics MUST believe in order to follow their religion you would have to be absolutely bat shit nuts. I don't know why people feel this need to show respect to priests and clergy and religiousness. I think its all flat out total nonsense and it has nothing to do with being a good person.
Well, they get you young and scare you reeel good.
Dorothy Thrower and that's why me and many of my other friends that went to catholic religious education classes are now atheists
Oh dear.. this was a slaughter.
The Archbishop was unfortunately nowhere near the same level as the 3 other speakers. I was happily surprised by Stephen Fry though. What a spot on, intelligent, rethorical and well argumentet debate from his side. And Hitchens was of course bad ass as usual ;)
Thank God I'm an Atheist!
God is horrible... he made Ann Widdecombe..... and her voice......
bracken pops This is where God gets off the hook. A figment cannot be held responsible.
Namaste and care,
mhikl
Oh my, the English politician starts out by not defending her faith, (recent convert) but by attacking the other speaker, I have nothing but respect for those who believe in any religion,but when you are talking about an organisation that knew about Kristalnacht and has proven links to bankers involved with the Mafia, only last year were bank accounts found, The Gospels from which the church preach at there earliest where written 600 years after Christ was born. The King James Bible was written between 1604 -1611. people I would advocate live you life be good to your fellow humans, have fun be nice what else is there?
stephen fry and hitchens. probably the the most formidable debating team ever
This was a massacre... Atheism +1
Completely agree.. She interrupts while the speaker is delving deeply into the subject.. You have to tactfully transition between speakers instead of jarringly disrupting them.
The MP and the Archbishop were completely ouclassed in debate, and rightly so.
Here is what the Bible says about women becoming priests in the Church: "Orderly Worship
…33for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…(1 Corinthians 14:34...)"