Luka doesn’t want media following him around or being on camera. He says that- some how it’s “lost in translation” Seriously, even if they just heard the first part- why on earth would they film him anyway- just common sense, decency, and respect for someone who lost someone. I find it hard to believe that was a misunderstanding.
Seans obsession with “getting back to normal” is borderline disrespectful. It’s not about how fast we can get past this it’s about it being handled appropriately and respect and justice being given to Lazar’s family.
I think “I don’t want media following me around” implies “I don’t want to be on camera”. That feels like basic common sense. Also, I feel like human decency would dictate not pushing a camera in someone’s face who’s brother just died 24 hours prior
I think we learned everything we need to know about Castro when he self servingly passed the message around that the Games were continuing with the "family's blessing".
Even if Luka said multiple different things that don't fully align with each other, it should have been clear to Castro and Carol that he was in shock and unable to make a judgment call. It was ten minutes after he arrived in the hotel ffs. Willfully misleading all other athletes and the public after that is just mind-blowing.
My humble opinion (coming from a past firefighter/lifeguard) … the 2024 CF GAMES WERE NOT FULLY PREPARED FOR EVERYTHING! A single paddle boarder with absolutely NO lifeguard saving rescue tube (the red 40 in long 6 in wide tube to help aid in rescue) wasn’t even present. I have a hunch the lifeguard probably wouldn’t even been able to pull a 200lb man (guesstimate on average weight) out of the water efficiently to help provide aid. Proper life guard procedures would’ve given them a chance to practice for a scenario like this. THE CROSSFIT GAMES WERE NEVER PREPARED FOR A RESCUE!!
I heard someone who volunteered as an active paramedic state that they were turned down as they weren’t needed, but knew an inactive EMT that was a volunteer,
The sad thing is Fort Worth FD has an impressive dive team that you can request be on site for stuff like this (it does cost $$$$ though so I'm assuming that's why CF opted not to use them).
Luka's statement swayed me. I was on the side of waiting for the investigation before people are fired. Now I understand the PFAA asking for Dave's removal because he has irrevocably blown his trust with the athletes.
CrossFit had decided prior to ANY talks with Luka or athletes that the games would continue. It was a farce. Now we have all the RUclipsrs getting in line to support CrossFit as they make their money from the games.
Glad Tommy came in firmly on this one and pushed back on some of the benefit of the doubt being given. LawTube has gotten wind of this, and the prevalent thought I'm seeing is gross negligence and grounds for a wrongful death suit. That all tells me that even outsiders can see how messed up this whole thing is, and they put it in stark black and white over the organization's failings. My heart breaks for Luka right now, and i hope people stop defending Crossfit and start defending Luka. As a reminder, two other athletes have come close drowning in past games, and no changes were made.
What exactly did he say apart from pretending to come across as some expert when simply discussing his opinion. He talks about snowball of bad issues. When after the event Dave and CF acted way above any capability than Tommy can even dream about. While he arm chair quarterbacks this with a clear bias . It's disgusting.
Castro knew he was negligent and that’s why he lied to Lukas face on multiple instances, including immediately at his brother’s death by telling him his timer had crossed the finish line.
A court will absolutely see things differently and Sean and Lauren are severely misunderstanding the U.S. legal system. There’s no “both sides” when someone lost their life. Huge props to Tommy for coming in with the facts.
Regarding the media team thing, obviously it’s not the teams fault. But it’s still Dave’s fault even if it was an accident. He was IN CHARGE, Luka made a request while in shock and not knowing the intricacies of how to explain in English exactly what he wanted on top of just how media works for explicitly what needs to be said. Dave DOES know that. He’s worked with media in this capacity for years. He should know what follow up to ask Luka to make sure her was crystal clear on how to respect Luke and his wishes.
I mean.. Crossfit is still a baby compared to all other sports around. It has grown exponentially since its inception. People are so short sighted who thinks this should be on level with the NFL or NBA
@@Ehhhhhsureeeethe fact that they haven’t been around as long as other sports doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to keep track of 80 athletes for an event. If they aren’t up to that cause they’re just such a baby sport. They don’t deserve to be able to put on any event.
In healthcare we call it the swiss cheese effect: multiple holes in layers align to create the opening for a major error to occur. By shoring up each layer, each segment of the whole, each process, you eliminate holes. This was a catastrophic event because of major holes in the entire process.
Thank you for confirming what I thought was true. Luka's post is heartbreaking for the entire community💔. I hope we realize it is not Dave alone to be held accountable. This will be painful to watch as we learn more even without the investigation results. I hope justice is served and Luka and his family get the justice and peace of mind they deserve ❤🕊
15:02 Appreciate Tommy having the guts to keep it real. And he's absolutely correct when he says at 18:09 about the importance of not letting a single mistake snowball into other mistakes. There were mistakes that led to Lazar being in distress. There were mistakes regarding an inadequate response for rescue. And there were mistakes from those who were responsible to communicate (accurately) what was happening as the information of Lazar's death came to be known (including accurate account of what transpired with Luka and his family). Just because there were MULTIPLE mistakes made, doesn't lessen or absolve anyone who may be accountable for the mistakes.
I personally don't like the "lost in the translation comment" Luka can speak solid English. He was in shock and grieving, it should have been crossfit responsibility to ask is there anything we can do for you and double check his wishes. That obviously did not happen. The chances that two pople at the top misunderstood the same thing ... I don't think so.
Tommy, I really appreciate you addressing what needed to be said. With all the issues surrounding who is conducting the third-party investigation and the trust issues we already have with CrossFit, I’m not sure we can trust what they release.
“Getting back to normal” will not happen. Criminal level negligence coupled with misleading athletes and the public around the wishes of the family. Loved Tommy’s input in this. There is no benefit of the doubt to be given to CrossFit HQ. They cost a man his life.
Yes! We don’t want to “get back to normal” we want to support athletes and a sport we love but we now don’t trust hq to take care of the athletes we support. They have proven time and time again to be negligent. It’s time for an overhaul.
Three hours to recover the body, pretty much says everything. Where were the rescue divers? Where were the paramedics? Why were the volunteers asleep at the wheel? Where was the fire department at the event? Where were the EMS at the event? From the poor camera shots, none of those were there at the time.
I’m so glad Luka spoke out. Lazar and his family were failed multiple times. There has to be accountability. Dave and Don and CFHQ really need to own up to responsibility. It may take time, but it must happen. May it be just and swift. The trust is destroyed currently. Thanks for having this discussion episode.
Same, a breath of fresh air, rather than all the other CrossFit personalities doing CYA, promoting Dave and CFHQ just because they want the current format to continue. Weak people leaving their morals and integrity at home.
You Can't compare this to a funeral Tommy, this was the day after. The family are beside themselves. That is unforgivable to betray the family's privacy
I think that there is a consideration that is being missed here…. and that is the likelihood of criminal charges being brought to executives within CrossFit. Regardless of an athlete signing a waiver to take on responsibility for and to not hold CrossFit liable for their own injury or death, waivers such as this do not remove liability from the competition organisers for ‘reckless negligence’ or ‘reckless endangerment’. If charged and found guilty of either, you could see an individual or individuals do jail time. There is numerous case law and precedent for this.
CrossFit HQ had an agenda in regards to continuing the games. It was already decided, and they knew how to manage the dialogue. Just like many CrossFit social influencers are now ganging together to promote a more positive viewpoint of CrossFit HQ, so they don’t cancel sporting events. It’s all manipulation and very evident.
It is beyond despicable that Lazar died out of negligence & there’s no 2 ways about it. & Castro leading the Games with his team & the snowball of his interactions & decisions. Lost in translation is the most American out you can make no matter if it was said in Serbian in Russian or Swahili “no cameras”, “I don’t care about the Games” is clear and simple. What Castro & his team did is scary & sad
The convo on the lifeguards maybe not being prepared to save a grown man while their literal job is to be a life saver…. The only one worth their salt in this conversation is Tommy. So disappointing.
I think she said that from the perspective of a “volunteer” who was unprepared and unequipped, not that a properly trained lifeguard with a floatation device shouldn’t intervene. Basically Lauren says if she was the untrained volunteer slapped on a paddleboard with no aides she wouldn’t know what to do either. The fault lies with whoever put her there to begin with.
CrossfitHQ and Castro do not get any benefit of the doubt here. They screwed up. A man lost his life because safety precautions were not taken seriously and there were not enough people in the water to monitor swimmers and pull them to safety in the event of an emergency. That's the bottom line. I cannot understand how or why there is even discourse around this. As a human being, I feel for Dave, Luka, the athletes and everyone involved with this because I know they didn't wake up that day wanting things to play out like they did. But as an organization, that is why you go out of your way to protect your athletes and keep them safe. Crossfit didn't do that and those in charge at minimum lose their jobs. Crossfit can and will move forward from this but it cannot be done with the same people in charge that brought it to this point.
There are literally Thousands of surf life savers in Australia that patrol our beaches every weekend and they are all Volunteers. They are also some of the best highly trained life savers in the world. Volunteer does not mean un qualified That being said it does not matter how well trained or highly skilled you are as a life saver if you are not paying attention and become complacent which seems to have been case here. It doesn't seem to be poor programming or lack of safety. Unfortunately for those lifeguards who were right there, they dropped the ball and as a result someone drowned.
I'm in Australia. If you went to a beach that only had 2 lifeguards on paddleboards with no equipment whatsoever, do you think that would suffice? If there's 80 people in the water? Even if they were trained volunteers, they had no gear. I suspect they weren't trained because, as you say, they weren't paying attention and you would hope a trained lifeguard would be doing their job, volunteer or not.
Known and Knowable wrote a comprehensive timeline of the day. He said that the person on the paddleboard, closest to Lazar, was actually watching Tia cross the finish line. Their attention was NOT on the athletes still swimming.
28:24 Sean isn't just playing "devil's advocate" here, he's playing dumb. Once again Tommy speaking truth and keeping it real. For Sean (or anyone questioning like this), why is it so hard for you to understand? Luka, nor any person affected by this, isn't obligated to speak to anyone. Period. How are you unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone who just lost his brother, while simultaneously not having trust in the person running the event. Luka's statements clearly speak to him not trusting Crossfit HQ, Dave in particular. (and there are other athletes that have stated they've felt a breach of trust as well). Please explain how you, if in a similar position, would willingly continue to engage with someone whom you do not trust as you're mourning the sudden, careless death of your brother. WTF man, this isn't rocket science.
Curious…do you really think a major sponsor will attach their brand name and put down cash for the Games if no change happens? Regardless if some athletes continue and some leave, no sponsor…no games…. Just a thought.
Craig and Jas are english. They are also content creators. Let’s rule out the language barrier guys. Castro has proven multiple times that he’s not trustworthy.
I mean I’ve heard people in the CrossFit podcast space saying they are pretty sure that he had a heart attack and until Luka posted that no one had any confirmation on his actual cause of death. So, I think his post did provide clarity to those people and to everyone wondering what actually happened to Lazar.
This was a horrible situation and should have never happened. Crossfit higher ups seem to be doing everything they can to show that they’re not to blame, but they are to blame. Period.
Do we really want things to go back to normal? If normal means that Dave Castro is still in charge then that would be a firm no. Dave needs to go. Dave just issued an apology on instagram - which is something he never does. And there have been numerous cases over the years where he should have apologized. So he probably knows the ground is burning beneath him.
I regards to the heart attack comments If the cause of death was a heart attack then drowning there will be a strong argument that it didn’t matter what CrossFit did there was not necessarily a good chance of survival. Now it is clear that if he was given assistance from an equipped life guard he would not have drowned. That is now an absolute. Is it not? I believe you also skipped over Luka’s point that Lazar was not in a pack of swimmers he was one of the race leaders which made him one of the easiest swimmers to observe on the whole course. I think some of Lukas points may have been missed here.
And Dave should have been the one who asked the specific questions, does that mean not on camera or not followed around? That was on Dave to ensure Luka was being heard and respected. Putting that on Luka in terms of list in translation is just rude.
As for someone who has worked in media for 30 plus years. And may fallen first responders. We do follow as best we can to give families there time. If there is requests from family we do follow what is requested. If were not told and in specific detail it can fall short. And things do get lost in translation.
WOW! Off topic, but you can tell (in your voices) what a sacrifice you guys give for a LONG weekend in B-Ham. Thanks for all you do for the sport and handling this sensitive situation with Grace.
Were the paddleboarders lifeguards or not? Tommy was interrupted when he was speaking about this. Was the water safety protocol followed? We know there were major errors. Paddleboarders watching Tia finish instead of scanning water. Announcing Lazar finishing when it was Luka. We are still making inferences based on partial information.
I don't think this is public knowledge yet. I guess we will need to wait for the investigation to end before we find out. This is the question though, and I hope for their sake they were not trained. Can't imagine how terrible they must feel.
Thanks Tommy for the compassion, logic and realness. CF’s rich history of arrogance and capitalistic-driven narcissism, demonstrated time and time again by DC is obvious to anyone who’s been following along for more than a minute but yet you’re the only one calling it how it is. Not sure how Sean missed all the memos.
Dave Castro has developed a cult of personality. There should absolutely be a way for these "two sides" to find common ground because at the end of the day, someone died. Like... the consequences don't get more dire than that. But, unfortunately, there are a lot of willingly ignorant factions of this community that can't let go of their deified TDC. That dude has proven time and again that he's not as smart as he thinks he is, he can't admit when he's wrong, and doesn't understand the gravity of the consequences of his actions.
No one want to get back to normal. If you do please take a good look at yourself. Change is needed. Better is needed and people need to be held responsible.
At the end of the day a Captain goes down with the ship. Part of having a role with that pay, influence and visibility is that YOU take accountability for mistakes, accidents etc. You can't use the excuse of "he didnt know" or "its not on him" because it is. If you don't know what is going on or if your teams haven't sufficiently planned for safety then that is on YOU. As the overall leader your whole job is to oversee what is going on and if there are problems then clearly the job of the most senior manager hasn't been done properly. If you seek out or accept a role of that level you accept the responsibility to match.
There was nothing “lost in translation “ Dave Castro gives a sh*t about peoples feelings!!!He wanted to continue the competition and disrespect Lazar’s family.Point blank
The convo on the lifeguards maybe not being prepared to save a man while their literal job is to be a life saver…. The only one worth their salt in this conversation is Tommy. So disappointing.
One more point - in the newly released IG post, D Castro says: "I've never been in the situation like that before (...)" Come on! You are in a certain position that come not only with a certain spotlight and pay, but also with responsibilities and expectations. You should know how what to do, and if you don't know - refer to your moral compass. If you have one. And as for the future of the sport - I think that the athletes who considered leaving / retiring will leave, move to Hyrox or do other things. You can see that the majority of the voices come from the "senior" athletes (Pat, Kara etc), while the younger stay rather silent (Gabi, Pepper, Sprague etc). Not to mention a terrible loss for the European CF, where 2 Games athletes are gone (I cannot believe Luka comes back), and many other struggle with trauma.
Absolutely NO ONE even thought it was possible for one of the fitness on Earth,a former water polo player, to drown…..that’s why there were volunteers, that’s why there weren’t dive teams…..no one ever thought this was a possibility. That’s why this tragedy happened.
I would have loved to have the referenced other media (articles, videos...) in the description. I´m not really deep into the crossfit social media world and would like to look those up, but I´m a bit lost.
I still have so many questions! I guess I would like Daves role completely outlined. Who exactly is in charge of how many persons to be on the lake, etc… Reading Lukas statement that he did not give permission to continue, how many athletes are upset thinking they competed with the families wishes? With that being said, we don’t know that Dave made that decision or HQ did and Dave just had to deliver the news. All things aside and not thinking of safety but due to heat, was it wrong to move it to Texas from Madison? We will never get the full story unfortunately. I wish nothing but peace for Luka and family.
As for someone who has worked in media for 30 plus years. And many fallen first responders. We do follow as best we can to give families there time. If there is requests from family we do follow what is requested. If were not told and in specific detail it can fall short. And things do get lost in translation.
When the same person is responsible for a compounding series of mistakes, its entirely reasonable to hold that person directly liable. The scramble to describe specific lies as miscommunication is ridiculous.
I really appreciated Tommy and Lauren's heartfelt response and it is hard to see them hurting. I'm a devils advocate type of person but in this situation it takes away from the fact that Lazar died. Things will never go back to normal and sean seemed to express a few times that he just wanted it all to go away and get back to normal. For all who loved him Lazar things will never go back to normal.
To me, Luca’s post, he is clearly angry, and rightly so, and it’s clearly a post initiating legal procedures, investigating gross negligence - The lawyers involved in the legal proceeding, are very un-emotional, they are just searching for facts… They will one by one turnover every stone to see if there is negligence in any area. Possibly drawing parallels with any international regulation on exercise, for example, water temperature, outside temperature, ratio of lifeguards to competitors, equipment of lifeguards, water clarity, training of lifeguard/volunteers etc. from his post, and just visually watching on the day, it sounds like Crossfit is going to fall short in a lot of these areas, and I think they’re going to be in a lot of trouble. Plus they will probably seek further compensation, for injury to feeling, as it does sound like it was very poorly handled as well post ins incident. I don’t feel that strongly either way about Dave, I’ve always thought he’s been a bit of an odd character, from Crossfit over the years, but he’s the director of the games, and someone died on his watch, he has to be sacked, I can’t see any other way around it. Lastly though, I think there will still be a 2025 CrossFit games, but I think it will be much better than what has been before, we may see a much more professional outfit, - More clarity of information, much improved health and safety/common sense, and it will be better for it, so nothing this terrible ever happens again, it’s just such a shame for Lazar’s family, that it took this, to initiate change in what is such a great sport. To say it’s lots of small mistakes that added up to a catastrophic failure… Is the worst defence ever, look at air travel, that is a shining example of how safe you can make something, with good procedure, health and safety, and box ticking. This is what I think we will see in the 2025 CrossFit games.
I don't think there was any DMP in place, let alone any table top testing. When there's nothing in place, whatever the events (how it's handled, communication etc) that follow the disaster, will not go well.
The move to Texas and the loss of No Bulls money. Can they run a cheaper games in Texas as compared to Wisconsin? Are state regulations for first aid and lifesaving procedures different? Would Wisconsin have required life-saving teams be on site? Did they even have to notify local authorities in Texas? States rights? Freedom.
Yeah I had to stop watching after 11 minutes. You are giving Castro WAY too much benefit of doubt regarding the camera situation. The fact is that THIS MAN DOESN'T CARE. All he (and CF HQ) cares about is getting the money shot, getting the views. They don't care about anything else than getting views and getting money, doesn't matter who they have to screw over (or kill) in the meantime. You guys have a platform in this community, you should be speaking out on the atrocious behaviour of this man. Not patting him on the shoulder because you're scared you media pass will be revoked.
Dave Castro has been a problem for a while. athletes have had issues with his management of the games. it's contributed to the death of an athlete he should be suspended immediately pending investigation and also now with this statement fired all together.
I’ve been a die-hard fan of CrossFit for a really long time. Following every little morsel of media about the athletes the sport etc. this situation has been absolutely gut-wrenching. I feel so much sadness for the Djukic family and the athletes, and so much anger at CF HQ!! I feel so let down, and things have to change! Thank you so much for sharing these inside insights, and keeping us informed with a very open perspective. I feel that we’re all a little broken over this as a community. We have to force change to recover
I don’t hate Castro, however the games are his baby and responsibility. He will need to go. In addition, I think the Games are done at least under the HQ flag. CrossFit as an organization is barely solvent.
Sorry I’m confused please clean this up… Who said what about the blessings? And were they lifeguards volunteering Or not lifeguards at all and they were just volunteers?
Good people can get complacent, have ego conflicts, and make bad decisions that have catastrophic consequences. So your personal opinion of Dave, the camera crew who filmed Luka, or the other Crossfit personnel that failed, are completely irrelevant when discussing their mistakes. Lazar's death has revealed that here is such an obvious lack of accountability throughout Crossfit HQ and the Crossfit community. Everyone is explaining away the failures of that day and what followed, instead of taking accountability for their individual respective failures that each contributed to the horrible tragedy and the failures afterword. From the failures of safe event planning, emergency response, communication with the family, communication with the athletes, the media team filming a grieving family member...it seems like all we get is excuses and that we should suspend judgement for the release of the investigation, as if we cant discuss the obvious problems that have permeated the community for years. So many thoughtless responses that diffuse blame from people in positions of responsibility, its disappointing. Lazar's death could have easily been prevented by several different layers of the Crossfit organization. Good communities in times of massive tragedy, recognize their failures, take accountability, make thoughtful changes, and move on. Its remarkable how members of this community lack the basic integrity to do right by their friend and admit that there are problems of leadership that have led to this tragedy. Just because it is an accident, and physical competition involves some negligible risk to the competitor, doesn't mean Crossfit HQ didn't act negligently and cause Lazar's death.
Luka doesn’t want media following him around or being on camera. He says that- some how it’s “lost in translation”
Seriously, even if they just heard the first part- why on earth would they film him anyway- just common sense, decency, and respect for someone who lost someone. I find it hard to believe that was a misunderstanding.
1000% its so rude and inconsiderate anyway🙃
Exactly.
Seans obsession with “getting back to normal” is borderline disrespectful. It’s not about how fast we can get past this it’s about it being handled appropriately and respect and justice being given to Lazar’s family.
I think “I don’t want media following me around” implies “I don’t want to be on camera”. That feels like basic common sense. Also, I feel like human decency would dictate not pushing a camera in someone’s face who’s brother just died 24 hours prior
Agree
Totally agree and cannot actually believe they are trying to justify that.
AGREE!
This is unbelievable.
Tommy came with the heat and it needed to be said.
Thank god someone is calling the bullshit, rather than all these social media people looking only to their own wallet.
I think we learned everything we need to know about Castro when he self servingly passed the message around that the Games were continuing with the "family's blessing".
And told Luka it wasn’t up to him. While it wasn’t, it will be in the forthcoming legal action. This was gross negligence.
Shameful. And so sad
Even if Luka said multiple different things that don't fully align with each other, it should have been clear to Castro and Carol that he was in shock and unable to make a judgment call. It was ten minutes after he arrived in the hotel ffs. Willfully misleading all other athletes and the public after that is just mind-blowing.
My humble opinion (coming from a past firefighter/lifeguard) …
the 2024 CF GAMES WERE NOT FULLY PREPARED FOR EVERYTHING!
A single paddle boarder with absolutely NO lifeguard saving rescue tube (the red 40 in long 6 in wide tube to help aid in rescue) wasn’t even present.
I have a hunch the lifeguard probably wouldn’t even been able to pull a 200lb man (guesstimate on average weight) out of the water efficiently to help provide aid. Proper life guard procedures would’ve given them a chance to practice for a scenario like this.
THE CROSSFIT GAMES WERE NEVER PREPARED FOR A RESCUE!!
I heard someone who volunteered as an active paramedic state that they were turned down as they weren’t needed, but knew an inactive EMT that was a volunteer,
The sad thing is Fort Worth FD has an impressive dive team that you can request be on site for stuff like this (it does cost $$$$ though so I'm assuming that's why CF opted not to use them).
@@danielbenavidezjr.4178 I heard that from the Diver, he seemed surprised they werent on site for the event.
Luka's statement swayed me. I was on the side of waiting for the investigation before people are fired. Now I understand the PFAA asking for Dave's removal because he has irrevocably blown his trust with the athletes.
Sounds like Sean is giving CF a HUGE "benefit of the doubt"
Agree.
Seems like CrossFit willingly misunderstood Luka and painted the picture the way that suited them.
CrossFit had decided prior to ANY talks with Luka or athletes that the games would continue. It was a farce. Now we have all the RUclipsrs getting in line to support CrossFit as they make their money from the games.
Sean you're living in the past. CF is done. The board is 10 steps past Dave.
@@BananaDanceMan I found you
Agree, and it's incredibly disappointing
Glad Tommy came in firmly on this one and pushed back on some of the benefit of the doubt being given. LawTube has gotten wind of this, and the prevalent thought I'm seeing is gross negligence and grounds for a wrongful death suit. That all tells me that even outsiders can see how messed up this whole thing is, and they put it in stark black and white over the organization's failings. My heart breaks for Luka right now, and i hope people stop defending Crossfit and start defending Luka.
As a reminder, two other athletes have come close drowning in past games, and no changes were made.
My heart is broken for Luka, Anja, and the Dukić family. This is devastating
CrossFit HQ failed the athletes and it cost Lazar his life.
Thank you Tommy for saying what needed to be said.
19 minutes. Let Tommy cook. I respect these three for having such a tough conversation with openess and asking the questions that need to be asked
What exactly did he say apart from pretending to come across as some expert when simply discussing his opinion.
He talks about snowball of bad issues. When after the event Dave and CF acted way above any capability than Tommy can even dream about. While he arm chair quarterbacks this with a clear bias . It's disgusting.
Castro knew he was negligent and that’s why he lied to Lukas face on multiple instances, including immediately at his brother’s death by telling him his timer had crossed the finish line.
A court will absolutely see things differently and Sean and Lauren are severely misunderstanding the U.S. legal system. There’s no “both sides” when someone lost their life. Huge props to Tommy for coming in with the facts.
Regarding the media team thing, obviously it’s not the teams fault. But it’s still Dave’s fault even if it was an accident. He was IN CHARGE, Luka made a request while in shock and not knowing the intricacies of how to explain in English exactly what he wanted on top of just how media works for explicitly what needs to be said. Dave DOES know that. He’s worked with media in this capacity for years. He should know what follow up to ask Luka to make sure her was crystal clear on how to respect Luke and his wishes.
The fact that people thought Lazar’s chip had crossed the line goes to how poorly organised the event was.
I mean.. Crossfit is still a baby compared to all other sports around. It has grown exponentially since its inception. People are so short sighted who thinks this should be on level with the NFL or NBA
But people are also expecting the PFAA to be right on all the time and the same is true for them-- new organization
@@Ehhhhhsureeeethe fact that they haven’t been around as long as other sports doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to keep track of 80 athletes for an event. If they aren’t up to that cause they’re just such a baby sport. They don’t deserve to be able to put on any event.
@@Ehhhhhsureeeeit’s been running games events since 2009. No excuses.
@@jessiegoodrich6799 PFAA is driven by the athletes. Who know better about competing than people who compete?
In healthcare we call it the swiss cheese effect: multiple holes in layers align to create the opening for a major error to occur. By shoring up each layer, each segment of the whole, each process, you eliminate holes. This was a catastrophic event because of major holes in the entire process.
Great analogy!
Thank you for confirming what I thought was true. Luka's post is heartbreaking for the entire community💔. I hope we realize it is not Dave alone to be held accountable. This will be painful to watch as we learn more even without the investigation results. I hope justice is served and Luka and his family get the justice and peace of mind they deserve ❤🕊
Yes Dave should go, the fact he hasn’t already resigned speaks volumes about his lack of integrity
15:02 Appreciate Tommy having the guts to keep it real. And he's absolutely correct when he says at 18:09 about the importance of not letting a single mistake snowball into other mistakes. There were mistakes that led to Lazar being in distress. There were mistakes regarding an inadequate response for rescue. And there were mistakes from those who were responsible to communicate (accurately) what was happening as the information of Lazar's death came to be known (including accurate account of what transpired with Luka and his family). Just because there were MULTIPLE mistakes made, doesn't lessen or absolve anyone who may be accountable for the mistakes.
I cannot believe the first comments are to put the failings of the broadcast on the victims brother's fluency in English. Pathetic
I personally don't like the "lost in the translation comment" Luka can speak solid English. He was in shock and grieving, it should have been crossfit responsibility to ask is there anything we can do for you and double check his wishes. That obviously did not happen. The chances that two pople at the top misunderstood the same thing ... I don't think so.
Exactly. It was on them to confirm and understand unequivocally what he needed.
Tommy, I really appreciate you addressing what needed to be said. With all the issues surrounding who is conducting the third-party investigation and the trust issues we already have with CrossFit, I’m not sure we can trust what they release.
“Getting back to normal” will not happen. Criminal level negligence coupled with misleading athletes and the public around the wishes of the family. Loved Tommy’s input in this. There is no benefit of the doubt to be given to CrossFit HQ. They cost a man his life.
Breach of Duty is what they call it in legal circles. Which when proven is gross negligence. Their cost cutting was very evident.
Yes! We don’t want to “get back to normal” we want to support athletes and a sport we love but we now don’t trust hq to take care of the athletes we support. They have proven time and time again to be negligent. It’s time for an overhaul.
Three hours to recover the body, pretty much says everything. Where were the rescue divers? Where were the paramedics? Why were the volunteers asleep at the wheel? Where was the fire department at the event? Where were the EMS at the event? From the poor camera shots, none of those were there at the time.
I’m so glad Luka spoke out.
Lazar and his family were failed multiple times.
There has to be accountability. Dave and Don and CFHQ really need to own up to responsibility. It may take time, but it must happen. May it be just and swift. The trust is destroyed currently.
Thanks for having this discussion episode.
100%. This was preventable. It was a failure of care of duty, and negligence. Cost savings were clear.
I couldn't be more aligned with Tommy.
Same, a breath of fresh air, rather than all the other CrossFit personalities doing CYA, promoting Dave and CFHQ just because they want the current format to continue. Weak people leaving their morals and integrity at home.
You Can't compare this to a funeral Tommy, this was the day after. The family are beside themselves.
That is unforgivable to betray the family's privacy
I think that there is a consideration that is being missed here…. and that is the likelihood of criminal charges being brought to executives within CrossFit. Regardless of an athlete signing a waiver to take on responsibility for and to not hold CrossFit liable for their own injury or death, waivers such as this do not remove liability from the competition organisers for ‘reckless negligence’ or ‘reckless endangerment’. If charged and found guilty of either, you could see an individual or individuals do jail time. There is numerous case law and precedent for this.
Completely agree, that's how I see it unfold and a massive civil lawsuit to follow.
Tommy being the only based one on this podcast
Kind of disappointed in Sean and also Lauren a little. Thankful for Tommy for speaking up!
Same. While I understand that objectivity is necessary in journalism, things are too glaring to not call a spade a spade
CrossFit HQ had an agenda in regards to continuing the games. It was already decided, and they knew how to manage the dialogue.
Just like many CrossFit social influencers are now ganging together to promote a more positive viewpoint of CrossFit HQ, so they don’t cancel sporting events. It’s all manipulation and very evident.
Lost in translation is not an acceptable explanation. DC should have made absolutely clear he got the family wishes right.
It is beyond despicable that Lazar died out of negligence & there’s no 2 ways about it. & Castro leading the Games with his team & the snowball of his interactions & decisions. Lost in translation is the most American out you can make no matter if it was said in Serbian in Russian or Swahili “no cameras”, “I don’t care about the Games” is clear and simple. What Castro & his team did is scary & sad
The convo on the lifeguards maybe not being prepared to save a grown man while their literal job is to be a life saver…. The only one worth their salt in this conversation is Tommy. So disappointing.
I think she said that from the perspective of a “volunteer” who was unprepared and unequipped, not that a properly trained lifeguard with a floatation device shouldn’t intervene. Basically Lauren says if she was the untrained volunteer slapped on a paddleboard with no aides she wouldn’t know what to do either. The fault lies with whoever put her there to begin with.
CrossfitHQ and Castro do not get any benefit of the doubt here. They screwed up. A man lost his life because safety precautions were not taken seriously and there were not enough people in the water to monitor swimmers and pull them to safety in the event of an emergency. That's the bottom line. I cannot understand how or why there is even discourse around this. As a human being, I feel for Dave, Luka, the athletes and everyone involved with this because I know they didn't wake up that day wanting things to play out like they did. But as an organization, that is why you go out of your way to protect your athletes and keep them safe. Crossfit didn't do that and those in charge at minimum lose their jobs. Crossfit can and will move forward from this but it cannot be done with the same people in charge that brought it to this point.
There are literally Thousands of surf life savers in Australia that patrol our beaches every weekend and they are all Volunteers. They are also some of the best highly trained life savers in the world.
Volunteer does not mean un qualified
That being said it does not matter how well trained or highly skilled you are as a life saver if you are not paying attention and become complacent which seems to have been case here.
It doesn't seem to be poor programming or lack of safety. Unfortunately for those lifeguards who were right there, they dropped the ball and as a result someone drowned.
I'm in Australia. If you went to a beach that only had 2 lifeguards on paddleboards with no equipment whatsoever, do you think that would suffice? If there's 80 people in the water?
Even if they were trained volunteers, they had no gear. I suspect they weren't trained because, as you say, they weren't paying attention and you would hope a trained lifeguard would be doing their job, volunteer or not.
Known and Knowable wrote a comprehensive timeline of the day. He said that the person on the paddleboard, closest to Lazar, was actually watching Tia cross the finish line. Their attention was NOT on the athletes still swimming.
28:24 Sean isn't just playing "devil's advocate" here, he's playing dumb. Once again Tommy speaking truth and keeping it real. For Sean (or anyone questioning like this), why is it so hard for you to understand? Luka, nor any person affected by this, isn't obligated to speak to anyone. Period. How are you unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone who just lost his brother, while simultaneously not having trust in the person running the event. Luka's statements clearly speak to him not trusting Crossfit HQ, Dave in particular. (and there are other athletes that have stated they've felt a breach of trust as well). Please explain how you, if in a similar position, would willingly continue to engage with someone whom you do not trust as you're mourning the sudden, careless death of your brother. WTF man, this isn't rocket science.
Tommy keeping it 1000% real in this episode. I appreciate your guys dynamic and conversation. Able to see all sides but standing your ground.
Curious…do you really think a major sponsor will attach their brand name and put down cash for the Games if no change happens? Regardless if some athletes continue and some leave, no sponsor…no games…. Just a thought.
It’s obvious SEAN is on CrossFit side.
Lost respect for Sean.
When you work for crossfit, its hard not to be 9n their side
Stockholm syndrome
its not 'overshadow' ... ffs... this event is going to and should IMPACT CF for ever more
Craig and Jas are english. They are also content creators. Let’s rule out the language barrier guys. Castro has proven multiple times that he’s not trustworthy.
I mean I’ve heard people in the CrossFit podcast space saying they are pretty sure that he had a heart attack and until Luka posted that no one had any confirmation on his actual cause of death. So, I think his post did provide clarity to those people and to everyone wondering what actually happened to Lazar.
So dave twice made incorrect announcements. First that they had the blessing of the family and then that they had the athletes blessing.
This was a horrible situation and should have never happened. Crossfit higher ups seem to be doing everything they can to show that they’re not to blame, but they are to blame. Period.
Imagine registration to the Open drops by 50% or more.
Do we really want things to go back to normal?
If normal means that Dave Castro is still in charge then that would be a firm no. Dave needs to go.
Dave just issued an apology on instagram - which is something he never does. And there have been numerous cases over the years where he should have apologized. So he probably knows the ground is burning beneath him.
Obfuscating or lie vs a mourning family member. Cmon
Sounds like Dave had a path forward decided and listened to Luka to justify his decision rather than to learn and truly hear. Tragic.
The faster Crossfit HQ comes forth with honesty and integrity the faster issues can be addressed and changes and normalcy will return.
It’s not going to happen. That much was evident from the attitude at the games, and the lockdown on their social channels since.
I regards to the heart attack comments If the cause of death was a heart attack then drowning there will be a strong argument that it didn’t matter what CrossFit did there was not necessarily a good chance of survival. Now it is clear that if he was given assistance from an equipped life guard he would not have drowned. That is now an absolute. Is it not?
I believe you also skipped over Luka’s point that Lazar was not in a pack of swimmers he was one of the race leaders which made him one of the easiest swimmers to observe on the whole course. I think some of Lukas points may have been missed here.
Luka stated that it was not a heart attack according to the doctor that did the autopsy. The doctor said he/Lazar was in great physical shape.
Minute 11... It sounds like you're making excuses. Because Luka was explicit to Dave, and Dave was not explicit to the media team.
And Dave should have been the one who asked the specific questions, does that mean not on camera or not followed around? That was on Dave to ensure Luka was being heard and respected. Putting that on Luka in terms of list in translation is just rude.
As for someone who has worked in media for 30 plus years. And may fallen first responders. We do follow as best we can to give families there time. If there is requests from family we do follow what is requested. If were not told and in specific detail it can fall short. And things do get lost in translation.
Yes Tommy 👏👏👏 the title and pay come with responsibility. Full stop.
WOW! Off topic, but you can tell (in your voices) what a sacrifice you guys give for a LONG weekend in B-Ham. Thanks for all you do for the sport and handling this sensitive situation with Grace.
Were the paddleboarders lifeguards or not? Tommy was interrupted when he was speaking about this. Was the water safety protocol followed? We know there were major errors. Paddleboarders watching Tia finish instead of scanning water. Announcing Lazar finishing when it was Luka. We are still making inferences based on partial information.
I don't think this is public knowledge yet. I guess we will need to wait for the investigation to end before we find out. This is the question though, and I hope for their sake they were not trained. Can't imagine how terrible they must feel.
Thanks Tommy for the compassion, logic and realness. CF’s rich history of arrogance and capitalistic-driven narcissism, demonstrated time and time again by DC is obvious to anyone who’s been following along for more than a minute but yet you’re the only one calling it how it is. Not sure how Sean missed all the memos.
Dave Castro has developed a cult of personality. There should absolutely be a way for these "two sides" to find common ground because at the end of the day, someone died. Like... the consequences don't get more dire than that. But, unfortunately, there are a lot of willingly ignorant factions of this community that can't let go of their deified TDC. That dude has proven time and again that he's not as smart as he thinks he is, he can't admit when he's wrong, and doesn't understand the gravity of the consequences of his actions.
No one want to get back to normal. If you do please take a good look at yourself. Change is needed. Better is needed and people need to be held responsible.
At the end of the day a Captain goes down with the ship. Part of having a role with that pay, influence and visibility is that YOU take accountability for mistakes, accidents etc. You can't use the excuse of "he didnt know" or "its not on him" because it is. If you don't know what is going on or if your teams haven't sufficiently planned for safety then that is on YOU. As the overall leader your whole job is to oversee what is going on and if there are problems then clearly the job of the most senior manager hasn't been done properly. If you seek out or accept a role of that level you accept the responsibility to match.
There was nothing “lost in translation “ Dave Castro gives a sh*t about peoples feelings!!!He wanted to continue the competition and disrespect Lazar’s family.Point blank
Dave Castro needs to be held accountable and definitely needs to be gone from the world of CrossFit
The convo on the lifeguards maybe not being prepared to save a man while their literal job is to be a life saver…. The only one worth their salt in this conversation is Tommy. So disappointing.
On a lighter note . “So I don’t wither up like SpongeBob” was a hilarious Simile :) 🎉
One more point - in the newly released IG post, D Castro says: "I've never been in the situation like that before (...)" Come on! You are in a certain position that come not only with a certain spotlight and pay, but also with responsibilities and expectations. You should know how what to do, and if you don't know - refer to your moral compass. If you have one.
And as for the future of the sport - I think that the athletes who considered leaving / retiring will leave, move to Hyrox or do other things. You can see that the majority of the voices come from the "senior" athletes (Pat, Kara etc), while the younger stay rather silent (Gabi, Pepper, Sprague etc). Not to mention a terrible loss for the European CF, where 2 Games athletes are gone (I cannot believe Luka comes back), and many other struggle with trauma.
I want to hear from those 2 lifeguards!! Im sure the guilt of this tragedy is weighing heavily on them....
I can’t even imagine how they feel
Thanks for talking about this❤
Absolutely NO ONE even thought it was possible for one of the fitness on Earth,a former water polo player, to drown…..that’s why there were volunteers, that’s why there weren’t dive teams…..no one ever thought this was a possibility. That’s why this tragedy happened.
Tommy maintaining the rage. Love it.
I would have loved to have the referenced other media (articles, videos...) in the description. I´m not really deep into the crossfit social media world and would like to look those up, but I´m a bit lost.
I still have so many questions! I guess I would like Daves role completely outlined. Who exactly is in charge of how many persons to be on the lake, etc…
Reading Lukas statement that he did not give permission to continue, how many athletes are upset thinking they competed with the families wishes?
With that being said, we don’t know that Dave made that decision or HQ did and Dave just had to deliver the news.
All things aside and not thinking of safety but due to heat, was it wrong to move it to Texas from Madison?
We will never get the full story unfortunately. I wish nothing but peace for Luka and family.
Thank you, Tommy.
at min 29:13 of this video Tommy takes a direct shot to the bow of Sevan Matossian. Would love for those 2 to hash this out in the same space
As for someone who has worked in media for 30 plus years. And many fallen first responders. We do follow as best we can to give families there time. If there is requests from family we do follow what is requested. If were not told and in specific detail it can fall short. And things do get lost in translation.
When the same person is responsible for a compounding series of mistakes, its entirely reasonable to hold that person directly liable. The scramble to describe specific lies as miscommunication is ridiculous.
CASTRO NEEDS TO GO, FOR GOOD THIS TIME
I really appreciated Tommy and Lauren's heartfelt response and it is hard to see them hurting. I'm a devils advocate type of person but in this situation it takes away from the fact that Lazar died. Things will never go back to normal and sean seemed to express a few times that he just wanted it all to go away and get back to normal. For all who loved him Lazar things will never go back to normal.
We need to hear from Nicole Carroll as she was the only other person in the room.
Of all the things to pick first from his post, to debate why he appeared on camera and defending the media team is disappointing.
This investigation needs to be thorough and complete before any other comps.. 💜
Tommy ❤ well spoken
To me, Luca’s post, he is clearly angry, and rightly so, and it’s clearly a post initiating legal procedures, investigating gross negligence - The lawyers involved in the legal proceeding, are very un-emotional, they are just searching for facts… They will one by one turnover every stone to see if there is negligence in any area. Possibly drawing parallels with any international regulation on exercise, for example, water temperature, outside temperature, ratio of lifeguards to competitors, equipment of lifeguards, water clarity, training of lifeguard/volunteers etc. from his post, and just visually watching on the day, it sounds like Crossfit is going to fall short in a lot of these areas, and I think they’re going to be in a lot of trouble.
Plus they will probably seek further compensation, for injury to feeling, as it does sound like it was very poorly handled as well post ins incident.
I don’t feel that strongly either way about Dave, I’ve always thought he’s been a bit of an odd character, from Crossfit over the years, but he’s the director of the games, and someone died on his watch, he has to be sacked, I can’t see any other way around it. Lastly though, I think there will still be a 2025 CrossFit games, but I think it will be much better than what has been before, we may see a much more professional outfit, - More clarity of information, much improved health and safety/common sense, and it will be better for it, so nothing this terrible ever happens again, it’s just such a shame for Lazar’s family, that it took this, to initiate change in what is such a great sport.
To say it’s lots of small mistakes that added up to a catastrophic failure… Is the worst defence ever, look at air travel, that is a shining example of how safe you can make something, with good procedure, health and safety, and box ticking. This is what I think we will see in the 2025 CrossFit games.
Tommy is the only one talking sense here
"blessing" should have been worded as "didn't object"
Castro as they say in charge. Its always been his role to take charge. So it all falls on him and the folks above and below him.
I don't think there was any DMP in place, let alone any table top testing. When there's nothing in place, whatever the events (how it's handled, communication etc) that follow the disaster, will not go well.
The move to Texas and the loss of No Bulls money. Can they run a cheaper games in Texas as compared to Wisconsin? Are state regulations for first aid and lifesaving procedures different? Would Wisconsin have required life-saving teams be on site? Did they even have to notify local authorities in Texas? States rights? Freedom.
Absolute lack of any discussion of culpability.
change change change. dont provide examples just keep saying changechange it never gets old
Yeah I had to stop watching after 11 minutes. You are giving Castro WAY too much benefit of doubt regarding the camera situation. The fact is that THIS MAN DOESN'T CARE. All he (and CF HQ) cares about is getting the money shot, getting the views. They don't care about anything else than getting views and getting money, doesn't matter who they have to screw over (or kill) in the meantime. You guys have a platform in this community, you should be speaking out on the atrocious behaviour of this man. Not patting him on the shoulder because you're scared you media pass will be revoked.
Dave Castro has been a problem for a while. athletes have had issues with his management of the games. it's contributed to the death of an athlete he should be suspended immediately pending investigation and also now with this statement fired all together.
He's going to end up in jail...
Sounds like you on Castro side ..... Very caring for a man greiving
can we (i.e., the pro athletes) all just move over to another competition like Rogue Invitational and boycott the Games?
I’ve been a die-hard fan of CrossFit for a really long time. Following every little morsel of media about the athletes the sport etc.
this situation has been absolutely gut-wrenching. I feel so much sadness for the Djukic family and the athletes, and so much anger at CF HQ!!
I feel so let down, and things have to change!
Thank you so much for sharing these inside insights, and keeping us informed with a very open perspective.
I feel that we’re all a little broken over this as a community. We have to force change to recover
Thank you Tommy, for keeping it real. Bottom line... CFHQ needs to explain why their response was inadequate
I don’t hate Castro, however the games are his baby and responsibility. He will need to go. In addition, I think the Games are done at least under the HQ flag. CrossFit as an organization is barely solvent.
Curious to hear how the paddle board persons explain what happened. Heartbreaking letter
Sorry I’m confused please clean this up…
Who said what about the blessings?
And were they lifeguards volunteering Or not lifeguards at all and they were just volunteers?
maybe everyone will now realize crossfit cooperate is a joke and will never be taken seriously by the masses other than the ones involved
My perception stays the same. Waiting for the result of the investigation.
Good people can get complacent, have ego conflicts, and make bad decisions that have catastrophic consequences. So your personal opinion of Dave, the camera crew who filmed Luka, or the other Crossfit personnel that failed, are completely irrelevant when discussing their mistakes.
Lazar's death has revealed that here is such an obvious lack of accountability throughout Crossfit HQ and the Crossfit community. Everyone is explaining away the failures of that day and what followed, instead of taking accountability for their individual respective failures that each contributed to the horrible tragedy and the failures afterword. From the failures of safe event planning, emergency response, communication with the family, communication with the athletes, the media team filming a grieving family member...it seems like all we get is excuses and that we should suspend judgement for the release of the investigation, as if we cant discuss the obvious problems that have permeated the community for years. So many thoughtless responses that diffuse blame from people in positions of responsibility, its disappointing. Lazar's death could have easily been prevented by several different layers of the Crossfit organization. Good communities in times of massive tragedy, recognize their failures, take accountability, make thoughtful changes, and move on. Its remarkable how members of this community lack the basic integrity to do right by their friend and admit that there are problems of leadership that have led to this tragedy. Just because it is an accident, and physical competition involves some negligible risk to the competitor, doesn't mean Crossfit HQ didn't act negligently and cause Lazar's death.
I wonder if paddle boarders eleven had a whistle
When you’re asleep at the wheel, nothing else matters.