I remember trying to learn the game through blind pick. Half the time I’d call a role and someone would go that role anyway. The moment I unlocked draft I never looked back.
Yea but we're talking about ranked League here. A mode where at least most of the time people are trying to win. Blind pick doesn't work like pick order either. Blind pick people just pick at the same time, pick order draft was one at a time people picked in descending order.
My personal grievance with autofill is that it's rarely equal, i.e. it doesn't try hard enough to keep autofills on a role for both teams, which almost always leads to the autofilled player having a bad time and possibly costing their team the game. If one side has an autofilled jungler, the other team should, too; no exception. If one side has a filled teammate and the other does not, guess which team is more likely to win the match
I mean that's just not true; their matchmaking system highly prioritizes having equal numbers and even positions of auto filled players. It does happen at times that those standards aren't met, but at the same time you are explicitly expected to be able to play every role. If you being autofilled support is so heinously atrocious that you lose every time the enemy support isn't autofilled, you need to practice support more.
@@kinggrantking 1) support gap is nowhere near as impactful as a jungle gap 2) if I'm expected to play well in every role, how about Riot actually makes a competent tutorial for each role instead of relying on community-made resources while printing endless amount of skins and *maybe* something more once a year. It's a joke that they're worth millions of dollars and can't put together a team that would make the game actually approachable
@@dtstar331 1. Which is why August (and other rioters) have explicitly said before that they try their best to ensure there are as few main vs autofill junglers as possible. I don't know where the idea that they don't care comes from. 2. Your opponents also don't have access to a tutorial, so while I agree the new player experience sucks it is at least completely consistent between players and thus not the reason one player is better than another. The opposing support also did not get a 12 disc instructional dvd set from Riot when they made their account.
Which is a problem of the autofilled person sucking in the filled role, not the problem of the system directly. I have no problem getting filled because I know I can play most roles well enough for my elo. It is pretty much what he said, role selection is so good in giving you your main role that people stopped playing other roles frequently enough, when it is just a normal part of the game.
i remember playing ranked with my scuffed laptop and always getting stuck with jungle because i always joined the match after everyone else called their roles and now im a jungle main
Yup ahaha. Bad net, or bad pc... or both. Both of those made you join late and that's one main reason that pick order can cause tons of problems in locations with less access to good internet or hardware.
i don't know if that would be a thing if I am honest, but i at least FELT like playing was smoother because everybody had at least a baseline understanding about what everyone else was doing. Not so much "WTF why you not helping?!" "My dude, there is literally nothing i can do"
@@nathanielmohr9622 This is true there were trolls. But is there much difference between someone saying "Mid or feed" and a mid laner getting autofilled and feeding under the new system?
@@paradajzisnicla with autofill, you can make up the difference in skill and try for a win. "Mid or feed" was basically a guaranteed loss with someone sprinting it down. Autofill also doesn't fester more toxicity in the community the same way "mid or feed" did. What's the difference between an autofill feeding and a main role feeding?
@@zachearyvang1189 I don't remember being trolled by these people very often. Most people had secondary roles that they'd prefer. Don't get me wrong, trolling did happen, but I get more screwed by autofills today than I ever did by "mid or feed" people.
Can't unfortunately, in order to get content out every day i need to format it for both longform and shortform content. But who know's, maybe one day i'll give it a go if I manage to get enough time :)
If there is no autofill it will cause AN INFINATE BACKLOG in anything above like platinum. There is not enough junglers to make the games. So you would literally have days long queue times
Yeah but if i get autofilled jungle, i HAVE to dodge. its not a choice i can make, me in jungle would just mean 100% grief and 100% certain autolose cause i cant jungle for shit. So the result is: same people are back in the queue just like if i couldn't be autofilled to jungle and the queue times are a bit longer. Edit: It would maybe be a different story if as soon as i get autofilled to jungle, I get put in bronze games instead of my normal rank lol.
@@darealrulezbreaker9493 terrible idea. I'll tell you more - Riot already did this once, when each role had own elo, and it went terrible, cause SURPRISE, challenger player on another role is still challenger player with his knowledges, reaction and he has the same hands, so autofill players were just smurfing on noobs. And even more, it still didn't fix queue time, cause if you autofill sup to lower rank, there's still no sup in higher rank. So yeah, your idea is just one of the biggest Riot failure.
@@homyachock i mean yeah i completely agree with you, it is not doable in practice simply because not everybody is as shit in his autofill role as i am in jungle.. so if the same system puts someone 2 ranks lower that does not have as big as a skill disparity in the roles as i do it obviously gonna be a disaster. That wasnt a serious suggestion on my part anyway but good point.
@@darealrulezbreaker9493 just play some jg games in normal. Jg is easy now, it's not old days when you could die from camps if you don't kite. Plus jungle is counterpick-proof, so you can pick 1 champion and stick to him.
would rather wait 20 min for a game thats fucking fair than waste 30-40 min with either me being autofilled or a team mate being autofilled making the LUCK based game even more LUCK BASED
Then that is what will happen lol. You will get 20 minute queues in gold mmr because no one wants to queue for support or jungle. I was there for pre autofill league of legends, when it was just role select, it took a minimum of 8 minutes just to get into a draft pick normal game. It turns out when you don't play 6 hours of video games every day you might prefer to get into a match faster and sometimes play a role you don't want, over only playing one match because the queue took up half of your free time
@@mpfree325 They nerfed dodging, they also added anonymous lobbies (becouse why would you get the option to dodge the guy running it down, or the autofill jungler locking his 30% winrate graves). Riot has constantly removed autonomy from the players and the choices you can make as an individual to decide if you want to play a match or not. Dodging is just either a hunch choice or something you use if someone is hostaging or dodge baiting instead of being a tool for getting good quality matches. Now you're stuck with horrible match quality in every elo besides high grandmaster/challenger, a sistem that prevents you from seeing if someone on your team is gonna be a dead weight, that also prevents you to check ping, that also prevents you from seeing who starts surrender votes or spams surrender. On top of EVERYTHING else that i just mentioned, you still get autofilled, which highly reduces your win cons.
@@santir2396 Anonymous lobbies prevent people from being targeted by stream snipers in queue, and it prevents people from looking you up, seeing that you're on a loss streak, and dodging you. That was very common before anonymous lobbies. You have clearly never played before anonymous lobbies were a thing, and it was much, much, MUCH worse before they were added. Random trolls are always gonna be a thing, but specific trolls targeting you will always be way worse, because it affects the people you queue with. You might not be getting targeted by stream snipers because you don't stream. but what about the other people in your lobby? The support might be a streamer, getting stream sniped by an inting Nunu ADC, but that means you also get the inting Nunu, just for being on the same team as the support streamer. Anonymous lobbies hide players from targeted harassment, which reduces the number of blatant trolls. There is no other angle to this that makes anonymous lobbies bad. You are coping, you are stupid, you don't know what you're talking about.
@@santir2396 When you press accept and go to champ select, you've chosen to play the game. Once you're in champ select you're already in game. You choose whether or not you want to play before you queue up
Same here. Though It's funny people bitch about everything like this while needing to be handled like toddlers in game while they insult you to the core. Indeed funny.
i like the way dota has it. you basically autofill, (select all roles) and every autofill game you get a +4 tokens, then you can choose not to autofill and select the role you want but it consumes 1 token. so from 1 'autofill' game (when you select all roles) you get 4 tokens to play 4 games with your preferred role.
no role select: general toxicity/trolling at champ select but everyone had a higher over skill floor in every role role select: players get their main role more often which should be more fun but now teams with autofill's literally have a player(s) who will be little to no help drastically dropping their odds of winning in a competitive game. Sucking especially in roles with higher impact that game. (supp/jungle early game or adc late game) no one is saying there are no downsides to removing autofill. it's just dumb as hell that there feels like there are solutions to the issues that come with auto fill that dont get used. mirrored auto-fills, lp/mmr loss reduction(most likely based on performance to minimize throwing), GOING BACK TO NO ROLE SELLECT, not giving one sided auto-fill teams (especially teams with auto-fill top) blue side, disabling auto-fill in elos where que times are shorter, etc, etc. At this point its quality over quantity. We'd rather have more fair games but less games overall than more shittier games but more games overall.
The unfortunate truth is that role select and autofill are completely different in terms of manageability depending on what your main role is, at least in general, and we do see a little more variance nowadays. Top and jungle can easily flex with each other, mid mages can go bot or support or even jungle sometimes, mid assassins can jungle (if not on the main champ, on another assassin built more for jungle), ADCs are kind of SOL aside from like Kindred jungle and the occasional time we find a marksman who makes an OP mid flex pick (which Riot really doesn't seem to like), then supports are all over the place since there's such a massive variety in which champs can effectively support. I'd guess the goal nowadays is find 2-3 champs in your main role that you're really good at, then 1-3 for the off-role and another 1-2 as flex picks in case you do get hard autofilled instead of just secondary role.
Honestly I think the problem is less autofill and more that the games meta has been reinforced time and time again by Riot and is rarely allowed to organically move and develop outside of extremely niche scenarios, to where if you get a game without a jungler or without a support, you can't make that work because the game disallows these strategies. It's very stringent on how flexible you can be where as back in the day it wasn't like this. You picked your champ and selected lanes basically after you got into a match and you played the game. You could even jungle without smite. So with a strictly enforced meta, you have to make sacrifices and that means if you want to get into a game in any reasonable amount of time, the enforced positions have to be present, and you may end up having to play one of them.
Kinda wish they would expand on autofill and role select a LOT more than it is currently 1. Allow for 3 roles to be selected instead of 2 roles 2. Add clarity by adding a visual slider that shows which distribution of autofill you are at (For those who don't understand. Think of auto fill as a slider of -2, -1, 0 , +1, +2 and if you get on your selected role, you go closer to -2 and if you pick a riot requested role or self fill you get closer to +2. the closer to -2 you are, the more likely you are to be autofilled, and then garenteed at -2 and the closer you are to +2 the closer you get to being Autofill protected, until at near absolute protection at +2. This is explained in more detail in a blog post riot posted when role select and auto fill came out. Too lazy to link it, maybe I'll do it later) 3. add a speed test to test for internet speed strength and internet speed consistency to weed out players (Like me and my friends) who have unstable internet (Jumps around from 40 to 4000) or weak internet strength (steady 130 connection :: More than a .3 second delay from input to action) 4. when autofilled, make sure the autofilled player is at the BOTTOM of the team select screen. This might sound odd, but the players who know they role they are on should be the ones who decide the meta in the match. Someone who is autofilled jungle should not be able to dictate the teams playstyle. however, someone who is autofilled should be able to follow up and support the play style of whatever the on role players lock in. 5. champion selection guidance for those who are auto-filled or volunteer filled/riot requested role. instead of being shown all 30+ characters you own, of the champions you own, and algorithm will show you 3 choices based on the the champions your teammates have picked. This allows for less failure in picking champions who work together, but also removes one element of a possible game loss from any auto filled players hands. I mean seriously, it's hard enough as is to deal with the mental anguish of knowing you're going to lose the game for your team on support. It would just make it worse to be on a support with ZERO synergy with the ADC. These are just wishes tho... If only I could work at riot. I wouldn't be pitching my ideas in a youtube video comment section XD Wait.. If I can spend all this time typing it out here... I could just type out an application form...huh
Are people really complaining about autofill? I get my role like 95% of the time. Do people not remeber how awful everything was before role select and auto fill?
Mean there's people who don't get their role 95 percent of the time it depends on timed popularity ... And there's some roles people loathe playing and will int and dodge just to not deal with it.
The point isn't about YOU specifically. The point is about team balance and matchmaking. . Let's say it's a diamond 1 lobby. One team gets all diamond 1 players on their main roles. Let's say the other team get's all diamond 1 players, but two of the players are auto-filled. . Now let's say you are on the team with the two auto-filled players... You did NOT get auto-filled, but two of your teammates did... and none of the enemies players are auto-filled... . That game is statistically probably an auto-loss for you. . This is where people's issues lie.
It's not that role select was a bad idea, it was a different idea. It allowed people to specialize in what they wanted to play at the expense of their flexibility. I don't believe either is actually better but I know that I prefer League with role select because I'm a specialized player, I'm fundamentally a support whenever the role exists within a game so I'd rather queue support and get into a game where I can do that without any complaints rather than force it on a role where it's not as optimal, or worse, force me to play something I don't want and don't care to play, so basically keep me as far away as possible from the hell hole that is toplane.
Oriana or Karma mid Ivern jungle (or any tank really) Karma top (or literally any tank is a good support for the team) Ashe ADC Support . You learn to adapt my friend. There are support style champs for every role.
im a season 3 player and while i agree that exectation of being able to multi role to some degree was better i also see how much harder the game has become since back then. i remember hitting diamond elo whilst having fun and still not knowing what half the items do, now its a grind to get out of emerald every split not being able to chill in ranked games like i use to, so i think its better that we allow people to focus more on one role than rolling the dice every game now that the stakes have risen
Actually i remember very well that there wasn't much to any complaint between team mates when someone wasn't on their main rhole. Usually it was just the autofilled who was complaining a lot, but also manu times 4 of 5 people weren't on their favorite rhole and "Main rhole" wasn't much of a thing back then (s3-5).
Rules are rules, and one of the rules of solo queue is that you must be capable of playing every role, and sometimes the difference between you getting your desired rank vs not is whether you can be a better autofilled jg than your autofill jg opponent. No one at any point ever promised that you could play adc every game or play Jinx every game or whatever. Morons in comment section have absolutely zero zero zero basis for thinking that they are in any way entitled to not play certain roles. You DO have to. It's explicitly part of the game. I don't know how this is at all complicated.
role queue is a privilege not a right. a diamond on his main role is lower on his off-role. that's just a fact. and it SHOULD show on the rank ladder when someone is able to play multiple roles vs someone who can't. autofill expresses that. someone who cant autofill will be behind on the rank ladder. without role queue, the difference between the 2 shows up more, on the rank ladder. the more roles a player is tested on, the closer we are to finding out his TRUE rank. the only solution that does not lengthen queue time, is to abolish role queue. if everyone is autofilled no one 'is'. it also alleviates conflict in shotcalls due to different knowledge of a given role. like when people disagree with jungler over which objective to prioritize...or disagree which player a support should pivot towards helping more, etc. the problem stated with pick order can easily be solved by having riot assign the roles randomly the moment players enter champ select
@@GrammeStudioit doesn't alleviate shot calls at all. Like before and like now people that aren't the jungler view the game from their selfish perspective of which move will benefit me the most at any given moment. While junglers don't. Plus people have no context about any other enemy player other than their laner and maybe the enemy jungler. While the jungler has about most of them in a good rounded way. That's why you never make calls when jung is around. If hes dead or on the opposite side of the map or absorbing pressure away from obj, then maybe. Else just don't.
because jungling sucks ass, and everyone blames you for everything going wrong in the match, and nobody gives you props when merit is granted. this is why jungling is the least popular role and why youll never have to autofill.
I feel like you should take notes in how Wild Rift makes it's system, where instead of picking two roles, you order them in how you want them to find a match. For example, I don't like Support and my Mid champion pool is filled with Battle Mages and Magic Vanguards, so I rather not subject my team to my inting because I play weak and off meta champions. I am also kind of not in the mood to Play ADC without a Support Duo. So I Queue Jungle and Top, putting them either one in first or second. Then, the game launches and I'm at least 70% of the time just in the first three roles and I know WHEN I'm AutoFilled when I land on Mid or Support. If I do reaaaally good on AutoFill or the game finishes, next game I am not AutoFill and I'm 100% confirmed to have my first picked role. If I do remarkably well on that role, I get one more chance at it. After that, I'm back to the roullette. I feel THIS SYSTEM is the best one, since I am not at the mercy of getting autofilled every game and, if I perform, I can get another chance to keep climbing and playing my prefered roles.
Exception: Sup mains should be able to opt out of autofill JG. I've queued X/Support every single time since the system went into place, for thousands of games over the years. I like sup. I usually get sup. Very rarely, there's another sup in the que and I get the X (adc or top). Very, VERY rarely I get autofilled - but when I do, it's *always* jungle, the one role I don't (and can't) play at least reasonably well. I've *more* than done my part to keep the match making moving, I shouldn't ever have to screw my team by getting jungle lol
Note that, in WoW pve, the roles are not used in equal numbers. In dungeons, it's one tank, one healer, and 3 dps. Dps are needed in triple the numbers of other roles, and they're still the role that gets kept waiting. In raids, it's even more extreme. A raid finder group has... It's been a while, I think it's two tanks, five healers, and *eighteen* dps. Dps are used a little over three times as much as healers, similar to dungeons, but outnumber tanks *nine to one* And dps is still the role with too many to field them all. I can't speak for the ratios in ff14, I haven't played it, but I expect there is a similar phenomenon. Whereas League has equal numbers of every role, so it doesn't get to soak those extra players on the more popular one.
Eh yes, and no. I kinda do actually see your point. . But I would make the argument that ADC, Mid, and Top are "dps roles" Support is "healer" and jungle is "tank." Or at least it's treated similarly, with league players avoiding support and jungle like the plague.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 I think your explanation works very well actually. Everyone knows that jung and support are the least mained roles so it works out the same way. It doesn't matter that the class or champ archetype aren't matching up 1 to 1. You still have 3 desired options and 2 undesirable ones.
@@anthonyfaiell3263that depends on the meta. Some time ago support rhole was the DPS while mid was supporting. Toplane usually is tank except this season where most were adc. In jungle you can find anything really.
So to summary the first 5min : Autofill exist cuz otherwise people stack up, we could give cool stuff to make people want to play the other roles, but they would end up playing something they don't want to play People don't want to be autofilled either it's the same result minus cool stuff, just give cool shit instead of giving LP loss for free
5:09 auto fill is also making players play roles they don’t want but at least the new method you’re explaining the player would have a choice. Autofill gives you no choice and forces you without any lp bonus,skin etc
Id still really like some improvements to role selection. I understand that you cannot give people an option to never get a role, even if auto-filled. That just defeats the purpose of auto-fill. But the system would definitely improve in a number of ways if you could select any number of roles, not just 2 or 5. For example: I play all roles decently well, but my worst ones are mid and support. Why cant I Q top+jungle+ADC then? At least I can, voluntarily, fill more roles like this. Another big issue with role selection, in my opinion, is how the concept of primary and secondary roles feels absolutely meaningless. I Q top primary and jungle secondary? Ill get jungle like 80% of the time. I Q jungle primary and top secondary? 95%+ of the time, I'll jungle. This system heavily disincentivizes putting unpopular roles as your secondary. If I mainly want to play top and some jungle... Well, I cant do that. I need to go something like top+mid if I wanna primarily play top - despite mid being a bad role of mine. If this whole system would just be a little bit more sophisticated, the result would be more people voluntarily picking unpopular roles, at least as their secondary. People would also pick fill more often if fill wouldnt be jungle or support 90% of the time, but actually a varied experience, which is what players that pick "fill" want. This isnt a solve to autofill or anything, but it would improve the experience of many players and would also at least help reducing the amount of times people are auto-filled.
why not implement what dota did?create a system where players are rewarded for playing unpopular roles which allow them to play more popular roles at a faster queue time. it would basically be autofill but you actually have control over when you get filled.
Probably because it's overwhelming the amount of players who will only play top mid adc and maybe supp while never touching jungle. No wonder i never get filled and my queue times are on average 50 sec in em - dia elo.
Idk why we have role select tbh. I was welcome to it initially but there's a certain charm of having a diverse skillset. I feel like the understanding of the game was better before it
Anyone who disagree with August here is delusional and wouldn't like their own ideas if they'd actually try it for few months. And I say it as the one who often disagree with Riot, but he is 100% right here. The only thing they should make is to let players choose all 5 roles priority (like widrift) so for example if sup and jg are needed, I would be autofilled as a jg cause I put jg 3 place and sup 4 place.
There is always going to be a role that players would play less. Sometimes is not even the role being weak, sometimes is just how players play and how the climb, what rank they are and more. Not to mention, public perception of the role.
is impossible for every role to have an equal amount of players. There will always be an unpopular role as long as humans have the free will to choose
no game in history made the Sup role a desirable thing to play (closest was Overwatch, but tanks suffered) no matter the game Sup/ Tanks are typically always the lowest population in a game's player base. Most people want to be the main character and DPS typically allows you to live that fantasy because you get immediate feedback of dmg dealt and kills which directly contributes to winning the game in 90% of cases. indirect ways of impact on games will inherently lower the population of people that want to play sup because you unironically have to be smarter to understand your impact on a match via healing or repositioning or tanking all things that can help contribute to winning but typically killing the enemy is universally accepted as contribution that wins the game. another thing is that good sups rarely feel that they are impactful but Dps will feel the impact that sups provide more than sups lmao. so all these reasons is why this issue will almost never change with very few and rare exceptions, because JG should technically be the most popular role but its too high maintenance and toxic.
Just make it an option that you can tick, i would rather wait 10 min to get one of my two roles than to get some random role i dont want. You might think that it would make the whole system suffer, but id say that more people would end up maining support if they dont want long wait times and dont want to autofill. Also if i get autofilled i 100% of the time dont try to actually win, i just pick some champ that seems fun. For example choose a top champ as support and then just try to have fun with it, most times it doesnt work and we lose, and you might blame me for it, but i play a game to have fun, not to be tortured to play something i dont want to play for 30 minutes.
in overwatch before double tank removal and other things i remember in gm queue in a really dead meta on a weekday at 3 am at one of overwatches worst player counts I queued for dps and didnt get into a game after 214 minutes of queueing and the servers werent down LOL
I find it funny that augest uses ff14 and wow as examples for long que times for popular roles. You know what square enix and blizzard did to fix this issue, and reduce que times for dps to be generally under 3-7 minutes in ff14, and under 8 in wow? THEY MADE EVERY ROLE FEEL GOOD TO PLAY NOT JUST THE DPS, and didnt just fucking abandon 2 of their roles and say "eh auto fill will fix it for us" like riot did. Riot refuses to fix the problems of "why does no one want to play adc or jungle right now"? and instead just said "Fuck those roles, lets just force up to 4 schmucks to suck it up and be the meg for the team."
@@Aryzo I dont personally find the themes to be lacking too hard. although supermodel with a gun is pretty overdone so far i admit. ADC i think the issue stems down to their gameplay feels genuinly awful. I compare to feeling like you are playing commander in Magic the gathering against 3 mono blue control decks. You do nothing but ask for permission to do anything all game.
@@existentiallamp thats a blatant lie. XD we have an entire role who has been screaming their role feels like dogshit since season 8, and the entire playebase just tells them to shut up. Its the role thats been on the auto fill list with jungle since season 8.
MMO’s are in general a terrible comparison as it’s far from the majority that actually queue for PvE (especially past the first month). You’ll know this if you ever go on FF14 and travel to Limsa. That’s not even mentioning the server issues when new expansions are released
I know idc about timers if everyone is where they are supposed to be. Another reason why gamers are unhappy with auto fill. Ruins game integrity imo. Not to mention dodging these games is looked down on. And punished. Oof.
it does. the "priority roles" are the 2 roles currently the least ppl are queuing for. (when you select your main/secondary roles, you see the priority roles being marked, i'm sure you recognized it already, at least subconciously)
8:40 I actually agree with this take, I remember playing before role select was a thing, and tbh, it created an expectation among the playerbase that you need to be flexible and be able to play something in other roles and that you shouldn't assume you'll get the position you want when you queue up and it also made sure that people had to work on all 5 roles at least somewhat if they wanted consistent results. People that wanted to 1-trick back in that era where the ones most vocal about wanting role select so that could end up a role where their main champion was good, and I get why they wanted it. There was also the issue since no one was actually assigned a role, people would fight over the role they wanted (this could've been solved by the system simply assigning role in champ select).
that's because if you queue for at least one of the 2 roles, that are "priority" rn, you get autofill protection. for example: im queuing jgl main and supp 2nd, in lowelo the 2 two priority roles alternate between any combination of jgl, adc & supp 95% of the time. so 99% of the time at least one of my 2 roles is priority, if not both even. and that means that im 99% of the time autofill-protected (that's example numbers, actually i cant remember ever not being autofill-protected), and for you it's probably similar, since your 2 roles are also 2 of the 3 lesser popular ones in lowelo.
I don't care if I have to wait longer, as long as it improves the game quality. The entire goal of ranked should NOT be "create an environment where players can spam games back to back with little downtime." It SHOULD be "create games that are as balanced as possible." . The whole idea of ranked solo queue is using a team based system to facilitate personal progression. So ideally, each player should be able to say that their teammates are pretty much equal to themselves and the other teams players... and that makes it so that each and every player can essentially "be the difference." And in a perfect world, this is what climbing ranked would look like. To progress from diamond 2 to diamond 1 SHOULD require competing with and against diamond 2 players all on their main roles that they used to earn that rank in the first place... but that's rarely the case. . Most matches end up coming down to who has more autofilled players. Or which team got the player that did not belong in that elo, and was just put in that match to create a quicker queue time. These are factors that the individual solo q player has zero control over, and kind of destroy the integrity of ranked LP ratings. This is essentially what turns it into a grind, because games are oftentimes literal coinflips. . Ranked systems should absolutely do their best to create fair matches... I genuinely do not care if we have to wait longer for those fair matches to occur. I want my rank to most accurately represent my skill, not my luck. And I believe quite a few other people would agree with that.
Thats you, but what about the millions of people who have exactly 30 mins ? You have to realize majority of the people think opposite of you. And the game was a lot better back before positional que, i agree with August, I will add on top of that, back then players were not elo inflated, a diamond 1 in season 5-8 could play every role at that level now people are diamond on main role and when they get secondary they are a silver( this also is for me personally im 70% winrate mid 23% jg, if i played mid only I would be d1 and not emerald 1) Also ranking up im league is never about luck,if you are better than your rank you will always climb, people who can’t climb is because they belong right there where they are stuck. I thought the same as you in Season 5, then i created 9 different accounts and they all ended up at the same elo(plat1-d4 )with similar stats , then i realized its a me problem. I did some extensive research about meta and where to improve and once i realized what i need to do i climbed to d1 in a week. Same now, I didnt play league for 3 years, I came back and got Emerald 1 jn a week and been hard stuck for 2 months now. Its 100% the way i play. This is also how challenger players get to Master in 2 days on fresh accounts.
@@bv1782I can agree and not. I'm jung main currently former top riven otp. I've never been able to hit diamond on my main account while plenty of time hit up to d1 on smurfs or alternatives. And the same goes for most high profile players. When they start losing games on one account they just drop it and start another one from scratch to hit rank 1. It happens now like it happened in s3 when i started playing.
Take whatever number of support players, make that many games. The rest of the player base will get a pop-up "Today you are not allowed to play. Touch grass." and this time will reach the maximum average duration someone is willing to wait to play non autofill. Few days maybe
They have no reason to incentivize you to stop playing the game lmao. They’re never going to add a “log off and try again later” feature over making the matchmaking faster
@@Aemulator. But that's what people want, no autofill. I think having a 15 hour queue is worse than getting a message "come back in 15 hours " I was also mocking the guys that want no autofill no matter what
I cant help but feel the topics addressed in this video are issues riot needs to fix but puts the issue on the player base to solve. (without achieving any goal or fixing any issue.)
okay but how you do explain 4 autofills on one team and 0 on the other? mathematically that doesnt make much sense if it was just for queue time, thats because it isnt and hes intentionally not talking about the real reason why autofil has to exist.
I feel like it should be different in master+. Laners can get autofilled in other lanes and do "fine" on average but support and jungle players should never be autofilled into other lanes. Laners are at least in master+ better mechanically than support and jungle players so the gap when they get filled is so big its unplayable.
As a Jungle main I just learned a few champs I can lane on. I play Ziggs since I can flex him mid and bot and can shove waves in an unfavorable situation if needed or when support is roaming if I have to temporarily lane 1v2. Also as a Talon jungle main he can work fine mid. I also play some Vlad who can flex mid and top.
A main jungle / support that gets autofilled almost never happens. They tell you they are fill but in reality they are just exhausted with the rhole and want to take a mental brake from it on something more chill and relaxing like pve farm simulator toplane or nuking stuff from midlane and roaming around mindlessly picking up kills and ofc flaming the jungler.
Ranking the roles sounds like the best move. So if i get cucked and get jungle at least I know it’s cuz junglers literally weren’t existing in that moment
@@OnlyTidus you didn't understand him. He meant rank every role in terms of priority. Like, my first 1 role is jg, then mid, then bot, then sup, then top. So if I'm autofill, there's more chances that I would play bot, not top.
People seem to struggle to understand this. In Overwatch there was a time when high elo games had a queue time of about 20 secs for Supp, and about 12 - 15 minutes for DPS. The average overwatch game is about 10 - 15 minutes. This means that Supp players played every game and DPS players had to wait the duration of one game before they could play. This is not the worst if it's 15 minutes... but league games are like 30 minutes long.
yea the thing with autofill is game quality you get fucked in the ass by whoever has more autofill making this shit game MORE LUCK BASED than it already is
one possibly overlooked benefit of the old system is that having to discuss who gets what role is a conversation starter. I strongly believe removing the necessity of talking to your teammates was a major contributing factor to the increased toxicity the game is seeing
Yes and no. While it's true that people interacted more back then. But it's also true that the interactions where much more toxin and lots more of them compared to now. Especially after they removed the names in lobby, almost always i join a lobby where nobody sais anything and the game starts...
Been saying this as an outsider. Imagine going to the park for a pick up game of any kind and throwing an int feed tantrum that you didnt get your role or the game isnt going your way
@TheHYDROrooster that's a pro league solo que has more in common with a pick up game at the park. For those times where you have the 6 ft 13 year old that's obviously playing center that has more in common with a role preference. Play 3 or four games move up in priority for top pick on the team. Voice comms help in putting a team together too.
Yeah but you can bypass this if you just always leave que if you didnt find a game in under 2minutes. Im doing this as a midlaner. Played over 200games this season only got filled to my second role 2 times. 0 times autofilled to a role i didnt choose.
"Unless you want queue times to be very long, it's not going anywhere" - this seems like a non-answer, I think you'd find a majority of ranked players would deeply prefer long queue times where they're guaranteed their role over the current system. I think what the person is asking you is closer to "Why does Riot need the queue times to be so much shorter when players would not prefer that?" - which is a valid question that I also have. Does Riot have survey data from recent years about what the player base would prefer re: Auto-fill? If not, how are they making their decision to keep it? On what basis?
I just made a comment like this. 100%. But unfortunately our argument here is often shoved under the rug. . To me, it's simple though. Saying "unless you want long queue times" as a main argument implies that spamming games with little downtime is their goal for players... The only world that is a goal is a world where Riot wants to create an artificial grind to lengthen play time and encourage microtransaction purchases. . Purely speaking from a ranked integrity standpoint... "fair matches" trump literally everything else. There is nothing else that affects ranked quality more than fair/balanced matchmaking. And perhaps long queue times would dissuade the brainless ranked spammers. Encouraging mostly only people who actually gave a shit about LP and winning games to queue specifically for ranked.
How about we remove autofill and continue with role select. Ironicly your matchmaking is much more balanced in quickplay than it is in ranked. and there is no autofill there. but you do have role select.
I think there are two big issues with autofill. First is that it happens randomly, which means that to opt out you have to dodge. I think it would be better if you were forced in role select to pick a role that needs filling. Sure, some people wouldn't queue at all, but that's better than having people dodge or be toxic all game because they were forced into a shitty situation. Second is that you can lose LP while autofilled. The solution is simple, while autofilled your LP doesn't change (unless reported), instead if you win you get bonus LP gains for the next few games, and if you lose then the bonus disappears. That effectively makes losing while autofilled less punishing since it can never reduce your LP, but wins can increase it. The actual bonus you get should depend on how far you are from your "true" rank, so basically you get a lot while climbing but very little if you're sitting at a 50% WR, preventing LP inflation.
riot is primarily trying to avoid long queue time. allowing players to sit out is going to worsen that problem. i dont see how losing 25 LP during autofill is that much different from losing 12 LP during autofill with potential to win +12 bonus LP in next few matches. seems like more work to get to where we started. worse: while the incentive to work for bonus LP might exist, most players are more interested in playing desired role, caring less about LP. the most powerful role being the least popular is the proof of that. meaning: they would just soft int to end the match faster so they can move onto match where they can play their main. dont even bother with the reporting implementation, it's just an unreliable system unless you're willing to embrace false positives. 1) players are trigger happy with reports 2) reports on soft int rarely even brings punishment.
Maybe reduce LP loss while autofill and increase if win? I mean marginally. So if i usually lose 20, when fill i lose 18. And if usually i win 22, when fill i ll win 24. A little bonus like that would be neat.
10:14 im not sure how good this idea would work but there was a system in a different game where you were ranked based on the role you are playing aka if im a Diamond Mid but get my secondary role of top i would play in platin or emerald because thats my rank with that other role. Now that i wrote that out i dont think it would work cuz you have more knowledge and understanding of the game than the others.... a different idea could be that players cant queue their most played ranked role in normals and quickplay. third idea which is probably the worst: make it so every 4th game doesnt give LP and every player is autofilled (in ranked) but that would mean the system needs to find 10 players on their 4th game...(this is always tracked so if you play 2 games on Monday then 1 game on tuesday and the 4th game on wednesday its still your 4th game)
People think the game is about grinding and climbing and mald about this For riot its about having as many players actually playing as they can. Its a no brainer to have autofill 75% of the game population is plat or below if not more it really only matters in high elo especially with all the flex champs these days
The game is most definitely about grinding because of autofill. Most games are coinflips. Autofill makes LP goals essentially a series of gambles and extends the time in which it takes. In World of Warcraft, when people beat the content of the expansion, they often quit. In league it's the same. People often quit when they reach their goals. Riot doesn't want that though, they want players playing as much as possible, for as long as possible. This drives engagement, and keeps their community full for all the whales dropping $300 on some "legendary skin" to show off to.
"league of legends has tightness to its match making" i have been B1 trying to climb into silver and been matched with golds on enemy team... I have been S4 and enemy team had a plat... the match making system is just throwing players into games using the auto-fill system. It is not tight...
@@homyachock Yes fully aware but that in itself is broken too. Why the fuck would you go off MMR - It takes way too long for MMR to update. Match based off rank and you will have no need for MMR. If you are better than bronze you will climb right? cant do that when your MMR is silver and youre not better than Silvers...... The whole matchmaking system is a joke. Re-do the whole game. League 2, new client, new match making, new ranked system. Undo all the fuck ups they have made over the years. oh yeah and dont balance champs around items and then completely change the item system...
There are a few reasons why someone might see higher ranked accounts than them in a game. 1) They are playing really well and their MMR is way above their current visual rank 2) The higher ranked player is duoed with a much lower ranked player 3) the higher ranked player is actually boosted and their MMR is much lower than their visual rank The game is designed to balance around MMR because it helps weed out smurfs and boosted players way faster, and they've found that MMR is a better indicator of true skill relative to the entire player base than the visual rank. Yes, if you play a fair match against people who all similar in MMR or people with even more MMR, the game will be harder to win, but because of that, you'll get more LP every win and lose less LP. Over time, if you truly deserved to be in a higher rank, you'll win games against games against people in that MMR range more than 50% of the time. Just because someone has a higher rank, doesn't mean they are actually that much better if they are in the same lobby. A plat in a silver game usually means that plat is probably really bad at being a plat player and has a silver level MMR. If you look at all of your games, a random player being much higher rank than everyone else in the lobby happens very rarely and often only when there are very few players in queue as most people have MMRs and ranks that are pretty close to each other.
@@coolbrotherf127 You are correct. The issue with all of this is that it takes far too many games to climb past ant MMR "sticking point" If your MMR is higher than your rank you should be receiving significantly higher LP gains to ensure you reach the rank your current MMR reflects. The issue i find is being bronze with a silver MMR means i need to VS silver players to climb out of bronze. Regardless of the other players MMR's i should not have to play against a brick wall. Keep in mind that if i do climb into silver, my MMR is now started to attract gold players and here in is my problem. Nobody should have to VS players of a higher skill bracket to climb. You should only ever VS players of a higher skill bracket when you have reached the peak of the previous. Regardless of how the MMR system works, if you are trying to climb you will be matched with people better than you. A silver player can have some bad games, be placed in bronze games and stomp. While the MMR system appears to work, it does have a large grey area that prevents players from climbing.
@@Artemis0567 The only thing preventing you from climbing is your own skill level. If silver players are your wall, then you don't belong in silver yet. Playing against people slightly better than you is also a benefit not a hindrance. It means that it gives you a benchmark aim for, and players to learn from. If they are doing things better than you, figure out what that is. If you can't figure it out, ask a coach who can. Everyone who climbs the ladder has to continuously face players of a higher skill bracket to keep climbing. Otherwise there would be no reason to keep improving. Wanting to climb, and actually improving to climb are very different. Plus you have to be intentional and consistent with your improvement. Randomly playing ranked every now and then will never give you enough experience to learn anything very quickly.
At high elos, common roles would have multi-hour queue times most likely, or you would get bigger elo discrepancies (like low diamonds playing vs challenger)
3 problems : - that's what you want but not what the majority wants. But it would impact to everyone - you probably would stop playing at some point. It sounds ok for the first few games but once you play your fourth game with 40+min queue you would regret it probably. - higher queue time probably means less players playing and less revenue for riot so it would probably impact their income negativly.
That would work okay if there was a relatively even assortment of mained roles but even a 1% difference in roles being popular means that the wait builds up over time. So if 1% less people play jungle than any other role, for example, the games are limited by the amount of junglers in queue and then while junglers get games very fast to almost instantly, the wait time builds up for the other roles, getting endlessly longer until people start leaving queue because they can't be bothered anymore. And at that point, I think the system is even more flawed than it is currently, basically relying on people dequeueing for things to level out and at the point where people aren't queueing anymore because it's too long, that is a worse system than we have now.
@@sneakysunset1765 3 answers 1. that IS what the majority wants. no one wants auto fill in the game, except the lazy riot devs who dont want to put the time in to actually balance the game. 2. maybe we shouldn't have roles that feel so dogshit to play no one wants to play them. 3. see number 2
I find it absolutely impossible that ranked players would rather wait for like 5-10 minutes per game for their role instead of 2.5 to be autofilled and that league of legends doesn't have enough players. If you want an example just look at WoW and FF14. The thing is "tight knit" matchmaking actually means the matches are fixed.
@@blueicer101it doesn't matter how many players league have. It's proportion. If you have 1 billion supports and 2 billions midlaners, than it's still 2 times more midlaners that couldn't find the match without autofill.
Yeah, but its probably not a 2 min difference, its probably closer to 30 min difference. So you either get 5 min queue with autofill or 30 min queue without it. And let me tell you, most players are not willing to wait 30 minutes for a single game, or 1 hour for 2 games.
depends on how bad ppl are at their off roles or how much they hate the role. Ideally you play all roles on ranked to get a grasp of your "real" rank but a good amount of people will just dodge if they don't get main role because they would lose mmr and only want the rank to flex or whatever. if they are gonna dodge all fill games anyway they might as well just wait in a longer queue.
You should be told during the match found screen what role it has found you and you should be allowed to decide if you are fine with proceeding. I would rather not play then be put into a certain Lane. The rest I'm fine with generally. I'm pretty certain other games have similar things. Dota even tells you about the general skill discrepancy in the match it has found and gives you an option right next to accept match to stay in queue.
That point is legit addresed in the video though. People will just always reject playing when filled as support, and we're back to square 1, 40 minutes queue times
riot specifically removes the ability to look others up on opgg, via hidden champ select name, to reduce dodging. i dont see your idea getting into riot's try list at all unfortunately
People in good queue time elos would rather wait the extra few minutes for the role they want. People in elos with 30 minute queue times would rather get the role they queued for after WAITING 30 MINUTES. There is no scenario the majority would prefer to be autofilled. There is no argument. Only delusion. If people are ok with being autofilled. Let them opt-in. "Fill" is also a role option.
You're making assumptions here. That getting the missing support will "only be a few extra minutes" (wishful thinking), and that waiting means you "deserve" your role. Okay so after you wait 30 minutes, Riot games will spawn a support player into existence to be in your game.
"Extra few minutes" It wasn't an extra few minutes. Challenger players played 2nd games during queue because it took over an hour to get into a match during prime time. You must be a zoomer new season player because you speak like someone that started way after autofill was a thing
@@TheCosmicAstro-1 hour is two times 30 minutes. So it's apparent you can't read and you aren't good at math. You are insane if you think waiting that long for a game is preferable to just playing the game while waiting for a shorter time period.
In a healthier game, they wouldn't need autofill because there would be players wanting to play those roles. But this game isn't in a healthy state, so idc about autofill because its shit and forces a lot of dodges in any queue I play.
It doesn't have anything to do with the game being healthy. it has to do with the fact that support is the most uncool thing to gamers. People play video games to shoot lasers and fly, like Superman. No one wants to play Princess Peach, they want to play Superman. Main character syndrome makes support seem lame compared to mid lane. Would you rather one-shot people as Talon or would you rather play a gay little fairy who sprinkles water on her friends every so often? That's the question gamers ask themselves when they choose a role to play. It doesn't matter that support is easy or elo-inflated, or that Talon is weak right now. it's about what's cool, not if the game is healthy.
@@loudwhispre9406 My spicy take: 90% of players don't want to be responsible for anyone but themselves. This is why DPS roles are so popular: Supports and Tanks have to worry about what their teammates are doing, they have a responsibility to enable the rest of their team. All a DPS has to do is damage, they exist to be enabled by everyone else. Jungler and Support have responsibilities beyond get fed and carry. It just so happens that these roles tend to catch everyone's shit when things go wrong. It isn't about the role not being fun, it's simply a more stressful, thankless role. You could play the game 100% perfectly as a jungler but still your team will scream jungle diff if you lose. Tank runs off on his own and dies, he flames the healer. Tank lands a great engage but a flanker kills a healer? "Where's the peel, tank?"
@@loudwhispre9406 isn't that intentionally part of the design and not just because it's support for gamers in general though? not every moba has this boxed in system for supports(espc repeated class styles). depending on the moba sometimes it's the hardest role in the game(with the deserving impact) and has plentiful variance and char diversity paired with having extremely good dopamine ult design. sometimes it ends up identical to league with supports just being relatively more boxed in. it depends on how the game designs it and how it falls into place.
@@krejman I mean it has its upsides. When ppl like playing a certain class they usually have plenty of options. Can't just ban one or two enchanters to make enchanter players not have picks but for ppl who don't like the classes in a role it shows the weaknesses of the system for sure.
Lol, you would create a monster, cause no honor 5 autofill=more autofill for players without honor 5, so you'd put already toxic players into autofill simulator or players who didn't play this season much, imagine you start your climb and got autofilled often, while your opponent who alrwady played a lot will be guaranteed to play his role.
Am I stupid or is that graph completely different from what actually happens? No way the amount of adc players doubles every hour. Its like 90% the same adc players that are still in the queue, so the graph only goes up by a little bit. Not saying its not a problem, but the graph blows the problem way out of proportion.
People start playing at different times depending on when they finish school/work etc. and the ratio of adcs to supports is remains the same, so aside from the adc's quitting due to 30 min queue times, the problem does just continue to grow. Supports get instant queues, adc queue's grow until late hours when people start going to sleep.
The adc graph would only go up a little bit if you assume that no new adc players are queuing up. While adcs might not double every hour, it does demonstrate that the adc queue will completely outpace the support one as time continues.
That's if you assume the ADCs only play 1 game and never queue up again for the rest of the night. They'll keep cycling in and out as the baseline while more players join the pool over time
cant you just get a loss mitigation if you lose as autofill? it would fix the frustration somewhat and it would make a disadvantageous game worth trying
Ok, dont remove autofill. ¿But can we remove anonymous lobbies? this has been singlehandely the worst implementation in modern league. You're locked out of the choice of logical dodging while simultaneously being forced to play every game, regardless of the ammount of autofills on your team vs the enemy team, regardless of not being able to dodge players that will intentionally ruin the game. Anonymous lobbies have caused match quality to severely drop in 99.9% of all elos, save for high challenger/grandmaster.
Anonymous lobbies actually make the quality of matches BETTER, not worse. You're not in high elo, so you don't understand. There are a tiny amount of people in Masters or above. If you play in those ranks, you will play with the same people, over and over and over. If one of them is a troll, or one of them is a stream sniper, you literally cannot avoid that person. Its like trying to avoid a roommate who lives in the same room as you, except the roommate hates you and tries to ruin your life every time they see you. Anonymous lobbies are the only reason the game is playable at high elo. Anonymous lobbies do not do anything to make the game worse, I'm not sure what kind of cope you're on that makes you think that.
@@loudwhispre9406 With non anonymous lobbies you could actually check op.ggs before going into a game and decide if you wanted to play it or not. It definitely improved game quality, since you could actually read a lobby and determine if it was worth spending time on the game or not based on the players. Snipers don't actually get dissuaded by anonymous lobbies since you could just match the queue accept button and hover champions to see if you are on the same game or not (this is under the impression that the streamer/high elo player is playing without delay and without queue cover, for some reason). Anonymous lobbies remove player accountability and their entire purpose is just to artificially deflate the dodging issue without actually solving the reason people used to dodge spam (which was awful lobbies). Essentially, Riot is saying "you have to play EVERY game you queued up for, no the games will not be better, yeah the trolls are still there, no, you aren't allowed to see it till the game goes into loading screen". It also makes league players even more irresponsible than they already are. Its basically saying "no, you can't single out this one player during lobbies now, you're stuck with him unless you afk and force your team to remake AND get penalized for saving the other 3 players time and lp".
@@loudwhispre9406 no way you're high elo. even IF you are, you're definitely not high ìQ so you dont understand. if the problem is running into the same trolls repeatedly, then KNOWING who you are playing, allows you to dodge/avoid that person. you think a player cannot change his decision to then start grieving you once he recognizes you in game?
Why cant we just have different wait times for each role? I'd happily wait 20mins to play if I get my role every game. I'd even queue for an hour and play another game while I wait. If there are half the support players than adc, surely we'd just need to wait twice as long? Even if we had to wait for a full game plus wait time for our turn to have a support, thats still like 30-40mins and I'm down. At least trial it, I think heaps of people feel this way.
I remember trying to learn the game through blind pick. Half the time I’d call a role and someone would go that role anyway. The moment I unlocked draft I never looked back.
Yea, blind was a nightmare. Way more griefers
Yea but we're talking about ranked League here. A mode where at least most of the time people are trying to win. Blind pick doesn't work like pick order either. Blind pick people just pick at the same time, pick order draft was one at a time people picked in descending order.
My personal grievance with autofill is that it's rarely equal, i.e. it doesn't try hard enough to keep autofills on a role for both teams, which almost always leads to the autofilled player having a bad time and possibly costing their team the game. If one side has an autofilled jungler, the other team should, too; no exception. If one side has a filled teammate and the other does not, guess which team is more likely to win the match
I mean that's just not true; their matchmaking system highly prioritizes having equal numbers and even positions of auto filled players. It does happen at times that those standards aren't met, but at the same time you are explicitly expected to be able to play every role.
If you being autofilled support is so heinously atrocious that you lose every time the enemy support isn't autofilled, you need to practice support more.
@@kinggrantking
1) support gap is nowhere near as impactful as a jungle gap
2) if I'm expected to play well in every role, how about Riot actually makes a competent tutorial for each role instead of relying on community-made resources while printing endless amount of skins and *maybe* something more once a year. It's a joke that they're worth millions of dollars and can't put together a team that would make the game actually approachable
@@dtstar331 1. Which is why August (and other rioters) have explicitly said before that they try their best to ensure there are as few main vs autofill junglers as possible. I don't know where the idea that they don't care comes from.
2. Your opponents also don't have access to a tutorial, so while I agree the new player experience sucks it is at least completely consistent between players and thus not the reason one player is better than another. The opposing support also did not get a 12 disc instructional dvd set from Riot when they made their account.
Which is a problem of the autofilled person sucking in the filled role, not the problem of the system directly. I have no problem getting filled because I know I can play most roles well enough for my elo. It is pretty much what he said, role selection is so good in giving you your main role that people stopped playing other roles frequently enough, when it is just a normal part of the game.
i remember playing ranked with my scuffed laptop and always getting stuck with jungle because i always joined the match after everyone else called their roles and now im a jungle main
Yup ahaha. Bad net, or bad pc... or both. Both of those made you join late and that's one main reason that pick order can cause tons of problems in locations with less access to good internet or hardware.
I liked the times when every player was expected to know every role at a decent level more
i don't know if that would be a thing if I am honest, but i at least FELT like playing was smoother because everybody had at least a baseline understanding about what everyone else was doing. Not so much "WTF why you not helping?!" "My dude, there is literally nothing i can do"
"Mid or feed"
@@nathanielmohr9622 This is true there were trolls. But is there much difference between someone saying "Mid or feed" and a mid laner getting autofilled and feeding under the new system?
@@paradajzisnicla with autofill, you can make up the difference in skill and try for a win. "Mid or feed" was basically a guaranteed loss with someone sprinting it down. Autofill also doesn't fester more toxicity in the community the same way "mid or feed" did.
What's the difference between an autofill feeding and a main role feeding?
@@zachearyvang1189 I don't remember being trolled by these people very often. Most people had secondary roles that they'd prefer. Don't get me wrong, trolling did happen, but I get more screwed by autofills today than I ever did by "mid or feed" people.
Role select is the best thing ever. When I started playing I was always bullied to be support. Now I get to play mid and I enjoy it
brother can we get a full screen PLZ
Can't unfortunately, in order to get content out every day i need to format it for both longform and shortform content.
But who know's, maybe one day i'll give it a go if I manage to get enough time :)
@@HeWhoQuacksss perfect the way it is if it helps w daily content, preciate what you do, keep it up :)
@@subek1205 Ty Ty, I appreciate ya!
@@HeWhoQuacksss This format is great, love the videos man
@@HeWhoQuacksss Just sharing a voice of reason in this clusterfuck of a game is admirable. Thank you for making Riot August's content digestible.
If there is no autofill it will cause AN INFINATE BACKLOG in anything above like platinum. There is not enough junglers to make the games. So you would literally have days long queue times
Yeah but if i get autofilled jungle, i HAVE to dodge. its not a choice i can make, me in jungle would just mean 100% grief and 100% certain autolose cause i cant jungle for shit. So the result is: same people are back in the queue just like if i couldn't be autofilled to jungle and the queue times are a bit longer.
Edit: It would maybe be a different story if as soon as i get autofilled to jungle, I get put in bronze games instead of my normal rank lol.
@@darealrulezbreaker9493 terrible idea. I'll tell you more - Riot already did this once, when each role had own elo, and it went terrible, cause SURPRISE, challenger player on another role is still challenger player with his knowledges, reaction and he has the same hands, so autofill players were just smurfing on noobs. And even more, it still didn't fix queue time, cause if you autofill sup to lower rank, there's still no sup in higher rank. So yeah, your idea is just one of the biggest Riot failure.
@@homyachock i mean yeah i completely agree with you, it is not doable in practice simply because not everybody is as shit in his autofill role as i am in jungle.. so if the same system puts someone 2 ranks lower that does not have as big as a skill disparity in the roles as i do it obviously gonna be a disaster. That wasnt a serious suggestion on my part anyway but good point.
@@darealrulezbreaker9493 just play some jg games in normal. Jg is easy now, it's not old days when you could die from camps if you don't kite. Plus jungle is counterpick-proof, so you can pick 1 champion and stick to him.
would rather wait 20 min for a game thats fucking fair than waste 30-40 min with either me being autofilled or a team mate being autofilled making the LUCK based game even more LUCK BASED
I would rather not play, then get into a match quickly for a role I don't want to play
Then dodge.
Then that is what will happen lol. You will get 20 minute queues in gold mmr because no one wants to queue for support or jungle. I was there for pre autofill league of legends, when it was just role select, it took a minimum of 8 minutes just to get into a draft pick normal game. It turns out when you don't play 6 hours of video games every day you might prefer to get into a match faster and sometimes play a role you don't want, over only playing one match because the queue took up half of your free time
@@mpfree325 They nerfed dodging, they also added anonymous lobbies (becouse why would you get the option to dodge the guy running it down, or the autofill jungler locking his 30% winrate graves). Riot has constantly removed autonomy from the players and the choices you can make as an individual to decide if you want to play a match or not.
Dodging is just either a hunch choice or something you use if someone is hostaging or dodge baiting instead of being a tool for getting good quality matches. Now you're stuck with horrible match quality in every elo besides high grandmaster/challenger, a sistem that prevents you from seeing if someone on your team is gonna be a dead weight, that also prevents you to check ping, that also prevents you from seeing who starts surrender votes or spams surrender.
On top of EVERYTHING else that i just mentioned, you still get autofilled, which highly reduces your win cons.
@@santir2396 Anonymous lobbies prevent people from being targeted by stream snipers in queue, and it prevents people from looking you up, seeing that you're on a loss streak, and dodging you. That was very common before anonymous lobbies. You have clearly never played before anonymous lobbies were a thing, and it was much, much, MUCH worse before they were added. Random trolls are always gonna be a thing, but specific trolls targeting you will always be way worse, because it affects the people you queue with. You might not be getting targeted by stream snipers because you don't stream. but what about the other people in your lobby? The support might be a streamer, getting stream sniped by an inting Nunu ADC, but that means you also get the inting Nunu, just for being on the same team as the support streamer.
Anonymous lobbies hide players from targeted harassment, which reduces the number of blatant trolls. There is no other angle to this that makes anonymous lobbies bad. You are coping, you are stupid, you don't know what you're talking about.
@@santir2396 When you press accept and go to champ select, you've chosen to play the game. Once you're in champ select you're already in game. You choose whether or not you want to play before you queue up
im with August Here, played League since 2012ish and was way more fun and Had way more Stories without role select
100% solves the problem if they make the same role autofilled on both teams every time there is a autofill.
This would make q times super long tho and force the system to do higher elo differences to make up for it which then lowers the quality of the games
Nah just make jungle not autofillable
@@A7TGzedThat'd be implementing a solution to a problem then removing the solution part of your implementation.
@@jobliar937You would just have to increase the frequency of autofilling to make up for the change. Probably would be for the best, honestly.
i absolutely loathe it when my jg is autofill, but enemy jg is on role and on main/onetrick
I feel like I don't have a word in this debate because it doesn't really ever affect me. I main jg/supp
Same here.
Though It's funny people bitch about everything like this while needing to be handled like toddlers in game while they insult you to the core.
Indeed funny.
i like the way dota has it. you basically autofill, (select all roles) and every autofill game you get a +4 tokens, then you can choose not to autofill and select the role you want but it consumes 1 token. so from 1 'autofill' game (when you select all roles) you get 4 tokens to play 4 games with your preferred role.
no role select: general toxicity/trolling at champ select but everyone had a higher over skill floor in every role
role select: players get their main role more often which should be more fun but now teams with autofill's literally have a player(s) who will be little to no help drastically dropping their odds of winning in a competitive game. Sucking especially in roles with higher impact that game. (supp/jungle early game or adc late game)
no one is saying there are no downsides to removing autofill. it's just dumb as hell that there feels like there are solutions to the issues that come with auto fill that dont get used. mirrored auto-fills, lp/mmr loss reduction(most likely based on performance to minimize throwing), GOING BACK TO NO ROLE SELLECT, not giving one sided auto-fill teams (especially teams with auto-fill top) blue side, disabling auto-fill in elos where que times are shorter, etc, etc. At this point its quality over quantity. We'd rather have more fair games but less games overall than more shittier games but more games overall.
The unfortunate truth is that role select and autofill are completely different in terms of manageability depending on what your main role is, at least in general, and we do see a little more variance nowadays.
Top and jungle can easily flex with each other, mid mages can go bot or support or even jungle sometimes, mid assassins can jungle (if not on the main champ, on another assassin built more for jungle), ADCs are kind of SOL aside from like Kindred jungle and the occasional time we find a marksman who makes an OP mid flex pick (which Riot really doesn't seem to like), then supports are all over the place since there's such a massive variety in which champs can effectively support.
I'd guess the goal nowadays is find 2-3 champs in your main role that you're really good at, then 1-3 for the off-role and another 1-2 as flex picks in case you do get hard autofilled instead of just secondary role.
Honestly I think the problem is less autofill and more that the games meta has been reinforced time and time again by Riot and is rarely allowed to organically move and develop outside of extremely niche scenarios, to where if you get a game without a jungler or without a support, you can't make that work because the game disallows these strategies. It's very stringent on how flexible you can be where as back in the day it wasn't like this. You picked your champ and selected lanes basically after you got into a match and you played the game. You could even jungle without smite. So with a strictly enforced meta, you have to make sacrifices and that means if you want to get into a game in any reasonable amount of time, the enforced positions have to be present, and you may end up having to play one of them.
Kinda wish they would expand on autofill and role select a LOT more than it is currently
1. Allow for 3 roles to be selected instead of 2 roles
2. Add clarity by adding a visual slider that shows which distribution of autofill you are at (For those who don't understand. Think of auto fill as a slider of -2, -1, 0 , +1, +2 and if you get on your selected role, you go closer to -2 and if you pick a riot requested role or self fill you get closer to +2. the closer to -2 you are, the more likely you are to be autofilled, and then garenteed at -2 and the closer you are to +2 the closer you get to being Autofill protected, until at near absolute protection at +2. This is explained in more detail in a blog post riot posted when role select and auto fill came out. Too lazy to link it, maybe I'll do it later)
3. add a speed test to test for internet speed strength and internet speed consistency to weed out players (Like me and my friends) who have unstable internet (Jumps around from 40 to 4000) or weak internet strength (steady 130 connection :: More than a .3 second delay from input to action)
4. when autofilled, make sure the autofilled player is at the BOTTOM of the team select screen. This might sound odd, but the players who know they role they are on should be the ones who decide the meta in the match. Someone who is autofilled jungle should not be able to dictate the teams playstyle. however, someone who is autofilled should be able to follow up and support the play style of whatever the on role players lock in.
5. champion selection guidance for those who are auto-filled or volunteer filled/riot requested role. instead of being shown all 30+ characters you own, of the champions you own, and algorithm will show you 3 choices based on the the champions your teammates have picked. This allows for less failure in picking champions who work together, but also removes one element of a possible game loss from any auto filled players hands. I mean seriously, it's hard enough as is to deal with the mental anguish of knowing you're going to lose the game for your team on support. It would just make it worse to be on a support with ZERO synergy with the ADC.
These are just wishes tho... If only I could work at riot. I wouldn't be pitching my ideas in a youtube video comment section XD
Wait.. If I can spend all this time typing it out here... I could just type out an application form...huh
Are people really complaining about autofill? I get my role like 95% of the time.
Do people not remeber how awful everything was before role select and auto fill?
Mean there's people who don't get their role 95 percent of the time it depends on timed popularity ... And there's some roles people loathe playing and will int and dodge just to not deal with it.
@@ja0062734every time you get autofilled you get protection for 2 games so it's imposible to not get chosen roles most of the time
"Do people not remeber how awful everything was before role select and auto fill?"
I mean it was added eight years ago, so probably not
The point isn't about YOU specifically. The point is about team balance and matchmaking.
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Let's say it's a diamond 1 lobby. One team gets all diamond 1 players on their main roles. Let's say the other team get's all diamond 1 players, but two of the players are auto-filled.
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Now let's say you are on the team with the two auto-filled players... You did NOT get auto-filled, but two of your teammates did... and none of the enemies players are auto-filled...
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That game is statistically probably an auto-loss for you.
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This is where people's issues lie.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 you know matchmaking tries to balance auto fills among teams right?
People that dont like autofill didnt know that before you had a call it first in the chat and even then, if you were last pick, you were last pick
It's not that role select was a bad idea, it was a different idea. It allowed people to specialize in what they wanted to play at the expense of their flexibility.
I don't believe either is actually better but I know that I prefer League with role select because I'm a specialized player, I'm fundamentally a support whenever the role exists within a game so I'd rather queue support and get into a game where I can do that without any complaints rather than force it on a role where it's not as optimal, or worse, force me to play something I don't want and don't care to play, so basically keep me as far away as possible from the hell hole that is toplane.
Oriana or Karma mid
Ivern jungle (or any tank really)
Karma top (or literally any tank is a good support for the team)
Ashe ADC
Support
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You learn to adapt my friend. There are support style champs for every role.
As a season 1 player I agree.
Expectation of skill was higher when you couldnt play one role.
im a season 3 player and while i agree that exectation of being able to multi role to some degree was better i also see how much harder the game has become since back then. i remember hitting diamond elo whilst having fun and still not knowing what half the items do, now its a grind to get out of emerald every split not being able to chill in ranked games like i use to, so i think its better that we allow people to focus more on one role than rolling the dice every game now that the stakes have risen
Actually i remember very well that there wasn't much to any complaint between team mates when someone wasn't on their main rhole.
Usually it was just the autofilled who was complaining a lot, but also manu times 4 of 5 people weren't on their favorite rhole and "Main rhole" wasn't much of a thing back then (s3-5).
We should just be able to queue up with which 5 roles we want to play in order.
Like in wild rift?
@@OG_ALviK If that's a feature in WIld Rift, then I'm staring to think Wild Rift is on to something more than just early visual updates😂
I've seen a single digit amount of "mid or feeds" since role select was invented. Before role select that happened like every fourth game
25%? I feel like it was closer to 100%. But maybe I'm misremembering things.
Rules are rules, and one of the rules of solo queue is that you must be capable of playing every role, and sometimes the difference between you getting your desired rank vs not is whether you can be a better autofilled jg than your autofill jg opponent.
No one at any point ever promised that you could play adc every game or play Jinx every game or whatever. Morons in comment section have absolutely zero zero zero basis for thinking that they are in any way entitled to not play certain roles. You DO have to. It's explicitly part of the game. I don't know how this is at all complicated.
role queue is a privilege not a right. a diamond on his main role is lower on his off-role. that's just a fact. and it SHOULD show on the rank ladder when someone is able to play multiple roles vs someone who can't. autofill expresses that. someone who cant autofill will be behind on the rank ladder. without role queue, the difference between the 2 shows up more, on the rank ladder. the more roles a player is tested on, the closer we are to finding out his TRUE rank.
the only solution that does not lengthen queue time, is to abolish role queue. if everyone is autofilled no one 'is'.
it also alleviates conflict in shotcalls due to different knowledge of a given role. like when people disagree with jungler over which objective to prioritize...or disagree which player a support should pivot towards helping more, etc.
the problem stated with pick order can easily be solved by having riot assign the roles randomly the moment players enter champ select
Feel like role based rank had a future, but the community ruined it within weeks.
God awful take
@@GrammeStudioit doesn't alleviate shot calls at all.
Like before and like now people that aren't the jungler view the game from their selfish perspective of which move will benefit me the most at any given moment. While junglers don't.
Plus people have no context about any other enemy player other than their laner and maybe the enemy jungler. While the jungler has about most of them in a good rounded way.
That's why you never make calls when jung is around. If hes dead or on the opposite side of the map or absorbing pressure away from obj, then maybe.
Else just don't.
@@RobotboyX2 So what happened when they tried? I did not know role based rank was actually ever a thing.
Am jungler and have never autofilled.
because jungling sucks ass, and everyone blames you for everything going wrong in the match, and nobody gives you props when merit is granted. this is why jungling is the least popular role and why youll never have to autofill.
Same here.
And often (1 every 30 games or so) times i get filled in my ex main rholes (mid and unfortunately top)
Waiting for the first pie graph themed champ
I feel like you should take notes in how Wild Rift makes it's system, where instead of picking two roles, you order them in how you want them to find a match. For example, I don't like Support and my Mid champion pool is filled with Battle Mages and Magic Vanguards, so I rather not subject my team to my inting because I play weak and off meta champions. I am also kind of not in the mood to Play ADC without a Support Duo. So I Queue Jungle and Top, putting them either one in first or second. Then, the game launches and I'm at least 70% of the time just in the first three roles and I know WHEN I'm AutoFilled when I land on Mid or Support.
If I do reaaaally good on AutoFill or the game finishes, next game I am not AutoFill and I'm 100% confirmed to have my first picked role. If I do remarkably well on that role, I get one more chance at it. After that, I'm back to the roullette. I feel THIS SYSTEM is the best one, since I am not at the mercy of getting autofilled every game and, if I perform, I can get another chance to keep climbing and playing my prefered roles.
Exception: Sup mains should be able to opt out of autofill JG.
I've queued X/Support every single time since the system went into place, for thousands of games over the years. I like sup. I usually get sup.
Very rarely, there's another sup in the que and I get the X (adc or top).
Very, VERY rarely I get autofilled - but when I do, it's *always* jungle, the one role I don't (and can't) play at least reasonably well.
I've *more* than done my part to keep the match making moving, I shouldn't ever have to screw my team by getting jungle lol
Note that, in WoW pve, the roles are not used in equal numbers. In dungeons, it's one tank, one healer, and 3 dps. Dps are needed in triple the numbers of other roles, and they're still the role that gets kept waiting.
In raids, it's even more extreme. A raid finder group has... It's been a while, I think it's two tanks, five healers, and *eighteen* dps. Dps are used a little over three times as much as healers, similar to dungeons, but outnumber tanks *nine to one*
And dps is still the role with too many to field them all.
I can't speak for the ratios in ff14, I haven't played it, but I expect there is a similar phenomenon.
Whereas League has equal numbers of every role, so it doesn't get to soak those extra players on the more popular one.
Eh yes, and no. I kinda do actually see your point.
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But I would make the argument that ADC, Mid, and Top are "dps roles" Support is "healer" and jungle is "tank." Or at least it's treated similarly, with league players avoiding support and jungle like the plague.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 I think your explanation works very well actually. Everyone knows that jung and support are the least mained roles so it works out the same way. It doesn't matter that the class or champ archetype aren't matching up 1 to 1. You still have 3 desired options and 2 undesirable ones.
@@anthonyfaiell3263that depends on the meta.
Some time ago support rhole was the DPS while mid was supporting. Toplane usually is tank except this season where most were adc.
In jungle you can find anything really.
@@96Logan Exactly! Thanks for summing it up nicely lol
@@anthonyfaiell3263 Got u fam. I'm a support main. It's what we do ❤️
Fun fact: if you pick mid as secondary you are never going to play mid, you go straight to jng/supp
Me picking always jung main and mid second; truuuu
So to summary the first 5min : Autofill exist cuz otherwise people stack up, we could give cool stuff to make people want to play the other roles, but they would end up playing something they don't want to play
People don't want to be autofilled either it's the same result minus cool stuff, just give cool shit instead of giving LP loss for free
I just wanna thank august for talking to the community the way he does, has honestly given me a whole new appreciation for the dev side of league!
5:09 auto fill is also making players play roles they don’t want but at least the new method you’re explaining the player would have a choice. Autofill gives you no choice and forces you without any lp bonus,skin etc
Id still really like some improvements to role selection.
I understand that you cannot give people an option to never get a role, even if auto-filled. That just defeats the purpose of auto-fill.
But the system would definitely improve in a number of ways if you could select any number of roles, not just 2 or 5.
For example: I play all roles decently well, but my worst ones are mid and support. Why cant I Q top+jungle+ADC then? At least I can, voluntarily, fill more roles like this.
Another big issue with role selection, in my opinion, is how the concept of primary and secondary roles feels absolutely meaningless. I Q top primary and jungle secondary? Ill get jungle like 80% of the time. I Q jungle primary and top secondary? 95%+ of the time, I'll jungle.
This system heavily disincentivizes putting unpopular roles as your secondary. If I mainly want to play top and some jungle... Well, I cant do that. I need to go something like top+mid if I wanna primarily play top - despite mid being a bad role of mine.
If this whole system would just be a little bit more sophisticated, the result would be more people voluntarily picking unpopular roles, at least as their secondary. People would also pick fill more often if fill wouldnt be jungle or support 90% of the time, but actually a varied experience, which is what players that pick "fill" want.
This isnt a solve to autofill or anything, but it would improve the experience of many players and would also at least help reducing the amount of times people are auto-filled.
why not implement what dota did?create a system where players are rewarded for playing unpopular roles which allow them to play more popular roles at a faster queue time. it would basically be autofill but you actually have control over when you get filled.
Probably because it's overwhelming the amount of players who will only play top mid adc and maybe supp while never touching jungle.
No wonder i never get filled and my queue times are on average 50 sec in em - dia elo.
Idk why we have role select tbh. I was welcome to it initially but there's a certain charm of having a diverse skillset. I feel like the understanding of the game was better before it
Anyone who disagree with August here is delusional and wouldn't like their own ideas if they'd actually try it for few months. And I say it as the one who often disagree with Riot, but he is 100% right here. The only thing they should make is to let players choose all 5 roles priority (like widrift) so for example if sup and jg are needed, I would be autofilled as a jg cause I put jg 3 place and sup 4 place.
Wouldn't a role being unpopular in the first place be the core issue
You can't just revamp the role system, backlash would be huge so Riot is stuck with 2 roles that are inherently toxic to play with
There is always going to be a role that players would play less. Sometimes is not even the role being weak, sometimes is just how players play and how the climb, what rank they are and more. Not to mention, public perception of the role.
is impossible for every role to have an equal amount of players. There will always be an unpopular role as long as humans have the free will to choose
no game in history made the Sup role a desirable thing to play (closest was Overwatch, but tanks suffered) no matter the game Sup/ Tanks are typically always the lowest population in a game's player base. Most people want to be the main character and DPS typically allows you to live that fantasy because you get immediate feedback of dmg dealt and kills which directly contributes to winning the game in 90% of cases. indirect ways of impact on games will inherently lower the population of people that want to play sup because you unironically have to be smarter to understand your impact on a match via healing or repositioning or tanking all things that can help contribute to winning but typically killing the enemy is universally accepted as contribution that wins the game. another thing is that good sups rarely feel that they are impactful but Dps will feel the impact that sups provide more than sups lmao. so all these reasons is why this issue will almost never change with very few and rare exceptions, because JG should technically be the most popular role but its too high maintenance and toxic.
honestly they should make me pick 2 roles I DONT WANNA play and be done with.
thats 3 roles then I can play
Yall need to get this guy to stream on YT.
Just make it an option that you can tick, i would rather wait 10 min to get one of my two roles than to get some random role i dont want. You might think that it would make the whole system suffer, but id say that more people would end up maining support if they dont want long wait times and dont want to autofill. Also if i get autofilled i 100% of the time dont try to actually win, i just pick some champ that seems fun. For example choose a top champ as support and then just try to have fun with it, most times it doesnt work and we lose, and you might blame me for it, but i play a game to have fun, not to be tortured to play something i dont want to play for 30 minutes.
to this day i just play ranked queues on support/fill cause i was raised on old ranked and just playing what i got
Pick order queue actually gives a reason to first pick lol
back then there were barely main roles. it improoved league by alot.
in overwatch before double tank removal and other things i remember in gm queue in a really dead meta on a weekday at 3 am at one of overwatches worst player counts I queued for dps and didnt get into a game after 214 minutes of queueing and the servers werent down LOL
I find it funny that augest uses ff14 and wow as examples for long que times for popular roles. You know what square enix and blizzard did to fix this issue, and reduce que times for dps to be generally under 3-7 minutes in ff14, and under 8 in wow? THEY MADE EVERY ROLE FEEL GOOD TO PLAY NOT JUST THE DPS, and didnt just fucking abandon 2 of their roles and say "eh auto fill will fix it for us" like riot did.
Riot refuses to fix the problems of "why does no one want to play adc or jungle right now"? and instead just said "Fuck those roles, lets just force up to 4 schmucks to suck it up and be the meg for the team."
@@Aryzo I dont personally find the themes to be lacking too hard. although supermodel with a gun is pretty overdone so far i admit.
ADC i think the issue stems down to their gameplay feels genuinly awful. I compare to feeling like you are playing commander in Magic the gathering against 3 mono blue control decks. You do nothing but ask for permission to do anything all game.
every role in league does feel good to play though. you just dont want to play all of the roles in league
@@existentiallamp thats a blatant lie. XD we have an entire role who has been screaming their role feels like dogshit since season 8, and the entire playebase just tells them to shut up. Its the role thats been on the auto fill list with jungle since season 8.
@@existentiallampyou seem to be able to enjoy watching paint dry. Unfortunately for the rest of us we’re not simpletons. 👍
MMO’s are in general a terrible comparison as it’s far from the majority that actually queue for PvE (especially past the first month). You’ll know this if you ever go on FF14 and travel to Limsa. That’s not even mentioning the server issues when new expansions are released
COLDEST TAKE OF 2024
If league went back to the old pick style I'd just not play league again that shit was dumb.
I know idc about timers if everyone is where they are supposed to be. Another reason why gamers are unhappy with auto fill. Ruins game integrity imo. Not to mention dodging these games is looked down on. And punished. Oof.
So why on earth does the UI not tell you which roles are currently least popular
it does. the "priority roles" are the 2 roles currently the least ppl are queuing for.
(when you select your main/secondary roles, you see the priority roles being marked, i'm sure you recognized it already, at least subconciously)
problems not autofil. problems that one team has 2 and the other has all roles.
Im literally soft inting auto filled jungle while watching this. I don't mind auto fill too much just accept it as an lp tax and go next.
8:40 I actually agree with this take, I remember playing before role select was a thing, and tbh, it created an expectation among the playerbase that you need to be flexible and be able to play something in other roles and that you shouldn't assume you'll get the position you want when you queue up and it also made sure that people had to work on all 5 roles at least somewhat if they wanted consistent results. People that wanted to 1-trick back in that era where the ones most vocal about wanting role select so that could end up a role where their main champion was good, and I get why they wanted it. There was also the issue since no one was actually assigned a role, people would fight over the role they wanted (this could've been solved by the system simply assigning role in champ select).
I call bullshit I was forced to play support every game or have some loser hard run it and whine the entire fucking game.
Tbh i never got autofilled ...
I play adc and support ... i dont care what of these 2 i get ...
that's because if you queue for at least one of the 2 roles, that are "priority" rn, you get autofill protection.
for example: im queuing jgl main and supp 2nd, in lowelo the 2 two priority roles alternate between any combination of jgl, adc & supp 95% of the time. so 99% of the time at least one of my 2 roles is priority, if not both even. and that means that im 99% of the time autofill-protected (that's example numbers, actually i cant remember ever not being autofill-protected), and for you it's probably similar, since your 2 roles are also 2 of the 3 lesser popular ones in lowelo.
I don't care if I have to wait longer, as long as it improves the game quality. The entire goal of ranked should NOT be "create an environment where players can spam games back to back with little downtime." It SHOULD be "create games that are as balanced as possible."
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The whole idea of ranked solo queue is using a team based system to facilitate personal progression. So ideally, each player should be able to say that their teammates are pretty much equal to themselves and the other teams players... and that makes it so that each and every player can essentially "be the difference." And in a perfect world, this is what climbing ranked would look like. To progress from diamond 2 to diamond 1 SHOULD require competing with and against diamond 2 players all on their main roles that they used to earn that rank in the first place... but that's rarely the case.
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Most matches end up coming down to who has more autofilled players. Or which team got the player that did not belong in that elo, and was just put in that match to create a quicker queue time. These are factors that the individual solo q player has zero control over, and kind of destroy the integrity of ranked LP ratings. This is essentially what turns it into a grind, because games are oftentimes literal coinflips.
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Ranked systems should absolutely do their best to create fair matches... I genuinely do not care if we have to wait longer for those fair matches to occur. I want my rank to most accurately represent my skill, not my luck. And I believe quite a few other people would agree with that.
Thats you, but what about the millions of people who have exactly 30 mins ? You have to realize majority of the people think opposite of you. And the game was a lot better back before positional que, i agree with August, I will add on top of that, back then players were not elo inflated, a diamond 1 in season 5-8 could play every role at that level now people are diamond on main role and when they get secondary they are a silver( this also is for me personally im 70% winrate mid 23% jg, if i played mid only I would be d1 and not emerald 1)
Also ranking up im league is never about luck,if you are better than your rank you will always climb, people who can’t climb is because they belong right there where they are stuck. I thought the same as you in Season 5, then i created 9 different accounts and they all ended up at the same elo(plat1-d4 )with similar stats , then i realized its a me problem. I did some extensive research about meta and where to improve and once i realized what i need to do i climbed to d1 in a week. Same now, I didnt play league for 3 years, I came back and got Emerald 1 jn a week and been hard stuck for 2 months now. Its 100% the way i play. This is also how challenger players get to Master in 2 days on fresh accounts.
@@bv1782"mid of feed" and ctrl v spam made old mm so enjoyable
@@bv1782I can agree and not.
I'm jung main currently former top riven otp.
I've never been able to hit diamond on my main account while plenty of time hit up to d1 on smurfs or alternatives.
And the same goes for most high profile players. When they start losing games on one account they just drop it and start another one from scratch to hit rank 1. It happens now like it happened in s3 when i started playing.
Just have an enable autofill option ffs
Take whatever number of support players, make that many games. The rest of the player base will get a pop-up "Today you are not allowed to play. Touch grass." and this time will reach the maximum average duration someone is willing to wait to play non autofill. Few days maybe
They have no reason to incentivize you to stop playing the game lmao. They’re never going to add a “log off and try again later” feature over making the matchmaking faster
Jungle is usually less popular than support?
How to kill a game 101
@@Aemulator. But that's what people want, no autofill. I think having a 15 hour queue is worse than getting a message "come back in 15 hours "
I was also mocking the guys that want no autofill no matter what
@@WoodsRunnerjg is never less popular than support, maybe in Iron only?
I cant help but feel the topics addressed in this video are issues riot needs to fix but puts the issue on the player base to solve. (without achieving any goal or fixing any issue.)
okay but how you do explain 4 autofills on one team and 0 on the other? mathematically that doesnt make much sense if it was just for queue time, thats because it isnt and hes intentionally not talking about the real reason why autofil has to exist.
idk about autofill, i'm a jg main
I think everone would be way better at the game with the old system since they actually get to learn what the other roles do
I feel like it should be different in master+. Laners can get autofilled in other lanes and do "fine" on average but support and jungle players should never be autofilled into other lanes. Laners are at least in master+ better mechanically than support and jungle players so the gap when they get filled is so big its unplayable.
Then jg and sup players should learn how to play the game. If they can't lane
As a Jungle main I just learned a few champs I can lane on. I play Ziggs since I can flex him mid and bot and can shove waves in an unfavorable situation if needed or when support is roaming if I have to temporarily lane 1v2. Also as a Talon jungle main he can work fine mid. I also play some Vlad who can flex mid and top.
A main jungle / support that gets autofilled almost never happens.
They tell you they are fill but in reality they are just exhausted with the rhole and want to take a mental brake from it on something more chill and relaxing like pve farm simulator toplane or nuking stuff from midlane and roaming around mindlessly picking up kills and ofc flaming the jungler.
I would like it if we could rank the roles like i main mid/adc but my support isnt too bad but i autolose top lane and jungle
Ranking the roles sounds like the best move. So if i get cucked and get jungle at least I know it’s cuz junglers literally weren’t existing in that moment
They tried this already and people just ran it down on roles they didn't care about
@@OnlyTidus you didn't understand him. He meant rank every role in terms of priority. Like, my first 1 role is jg, then mid, then bot, then sup, then top. So if I'm autofill, there's more chances that I would play bot, not top.
People seem to struggle to understand this.
In Overwatch there was a time when high elo games had a queue time of about 20 secs for Supp, and about 12 - 15 minutes for DPS. The average overwatch game is about 10 - 15 minutes. This means that Supp players played every game and DPS players had to wait the duration of one game before they could play.
This is not the worst if it's 15 minutes... but league games are like 30 minutes long.
and? DPS players dont want to play anything but DPSm if they dont want to wait they can change roles
he's bald
(
yea the thing with autofill is game quality you get fucked in the ass by whoever has more autofill making this shit game MORE LUCK BASED than it already is
one possibly overlooked benefit of the old system is that having to discuss who gets what role is a conversation starter. I strongly believe removing the necessity of talking to your teammates was a major contributing factor to the increased toxicity the game is seeing
Weird, I remember those times the opposite way.
People fighted for roles and if they don't win it's a dodge or a troll 😅
Yes and no.
While it's true that people interacted more back then. But it's also true that the interactions where much more toxin and lots more of them compared to now.
Especially after they removed the names in lobby, almost always i join a lobby where nobody sais anything and the game starts...
couldnt agree more
Id rather sit in queue for 20mins than have to play out a 20-30min game thats an autoloss cause im in a role I have no idea how to play
If everybody could do that, you and everybody else would be sitting at 40, 60 80 min queues and people would quit the game out of boredom.
Been saying this as an outsider. Imagine going to the park for a pick up game of any kind and throwing an int feed tantrum that you didnt get your role or the game isnt going your way
Ok, auto fill Kyrie as a Center vs Shaq and see what happens
@TheHYDROrooster that's a pro league solo que has more in common with a pick up game at the park. For those times where you have the 6 ft 13 year old that's obviously playing center that has more in common with a role preference. Play 3 or four games move up in priority for top pick on the team. Voice comms help in putting a team together too.
Yeah but you can bypass this if you just always leave que if you didnt find a game in under 2minutes. Im doing this as a midlaner. Played over 200games this season only got filled to my second role 2 times. 0 times autofilled to a role i didnt choose.
Auto fill is a requirement because you pigeon holed the game design to stick to a meta. Remove the meta, stop enforcing it, remove roles.
"Unless you want queue times to be very long, it's not going anywhere" - this seems like a non-answer, I think you'd find a majority of ranked players would deeply prefer long queue times where they're guaranteed their role over the current system.
I think what the person is asking you is closer to "Why does Riot need the queue times to be so much shorter when players would not prefer that?" - which is a valid question that I also have. Does Riot have survey data from recent years about what the player base would prefer re: Auto-fill? If not, how are they making their decision to keep it? On what basis?
I just made a comment like this. 100%. But unfortunately our argument here is often shoved under the rug.
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To me, it's simple though. Saying "unless you want long queue times" as a main argument implies that spamming games with little downtime is their goal for players... The only world that is a goal is a world where Riot wants to create an artificial grind to lengthen play time and encourage microtransaction purchases.
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Purely speaking from a ranked integrity standpoint... "fair matches" trump literally everything else. There is nothing else that affects ranked quality more than fair/balanced matchmaking. And perhaps long queue times would dissuade the brainless ranked spammers. Encouraging mostly only people who actually gave a shit about LP and winning games to queue specifically for ranked.
Can you just try it for like a week please
Just keep it as is… role queue is the one of the biggest reasons I stayed
But, more variety in botlane sounds enticing…
Who tf needed to ask this question?
old league was a superior game ill stand on that any day. Modern game blows so much ass its unreal
Why don't you show the paint D: so sad
Someone didn't watch the full video
How about we remove autofill and continue with role select. Ironicly your matchmaking is much more balanced in quickplay than it is in ranked. and there is no autofill there. but you do have role select.
I think there are two big issues with autofill.
First is that it happens randomly, which means that to opt out you have to dodge. I think it would be better if you were forced in role select to pick a role that needs filling. Sure, some people wouldn't queue at all, but that's better than having people dodge or be toxic all game because they were forced into a shitty situation.
Second is that you can lose LP while autofilled. The solution is simple, while autofilled your LP doesn't change (unless reported), instead if you win you get bonus LP gains for the next few games, and if you lose then the bonus disappears. That effectively makes losing while autofilled less punishing since it can never reduce your LP, but wins can increase it. The actual bonus you get should depend on how far you are from your "true" rank, so basically you get a lot while climbing but very little if you're sitting at a 50% WR, preventing LP inflation.
That's terrible udea, lol. People wouldn't tryhard if they can't lose LP, even now people can refuse to tryhard
riot is primarily trying to avoid long queue time. allowing players to sit out is going to worsen that problem.
i dont see how losing 25 LP during autofill is that much different from losing 12 LP during autofill with potential to win +12 bonus LP in next few matches. seems like more work to get to where we started.
worse: while the incentive to work for bonus LP might exist, most players are more interested in playing desired role, caring less about LP. the most powerful role being the least popular is the proof of that. meaning: they would just soft int to end the match faster so they can move onto match where they can play their main.
dont even bother with the reporting implementation, it's just an unreliable system unless you're willing to embrace false positives. 1) players are trigger happy with reports 2) reports on soft int rarely even brings punishment.
Maybe reduce LP loss while autofill and increase if win?
I mean marginally. So if i usually lose 20, when fill i lose 18. And if usually i win 22, when fill i ll win 24.
A little bonus like that would be neat.
but if every single person is willing to wait who gives a f about the wait time
10:14 im not sure how good this idea would work but there was a system in a different game where you were ranked based on the role you are playing aka if im a Diamond Mid but get my secondary role of top i would play in platin or emerald because thats my rank with that other role.
Now that i wrote that out i dont think it would work cuz you have more knowledge and understanding of the game than the others....
a different idea could be that players cant queue their most played ranked role in normals and quickplay.
third idea which is probably the worst: make it so every 4th game doesnt give LP and every player is autofilled (in ranked) but that would mean the system needs to find 10 players on their 4th game...(this is always tracked so if you play 2 games on Monday then 1 game on tuesday and the 4th game on wednesday its still your 4th game)
Let people choose to wait longer to not be autofilled. Everyone does that? Well, it's their decision
People think the game is about grinding and climbing and mald about this
For riot its about having as many players actually playing as they can. Its a no brainer to have autofill 75% of the game population is plat or below if not more it really only matters in high elo especially with all the flex champs these days
The game is most definitely about grinding because of autofill. Most games are coinflips. Autofill makes LP goals essentially a series of gambles and extends the time in which it takes. In World of Warcraft, when people beat the content of the expansion, they often quit. In league it's the same. People often quit when they reach their goals. Riot doesn't want that though, they want players playing as much as possible, for as long as possible. This drives engagement, and keeps their community full for all the whales dropping $300 on some "legendary skin" to show off to.
I miss blind queue
"league of legends has tightness to its match making" i have been B1 trying to climb into silver and been matched with golds on enemy team... I have been S4 and enemy team had a plat... the match making system is just throwing players into games using the auto-fill system. It is not tight...
@@Artemis0567 you know that matchmaker works mith MMR, not ranks, right?...
@@homyachock Yes fully aware but that in itself is broken too. Why the fuck would you go off MMR - It takes way too long for MMR to update. Match based off rank and you will have no need for MMR. If you are better than bronze you will climb right? cant do that when your MMR is silver and youre not better than Silvers...... The whole matchmaking system is a joke. Re-do the whole game. League 2, new client, new match making, new ranked system. Undo all the fuck ups they have made over the years. oh yeah and dont balance champs around items and then completely change the item system...
There are a few reasons why someone might see higher ranked accounts than them in a game.
1) They are playing really well and their MMR is way above their current visual rank
2) The higher ranked player is duoed with a much lower ranked player
3) the higher ranked player is actually boosted and their MMR is much lower than their visual rank
The game is designed to balance around MMR because it helps weed out smurfs and boosted players way faster, and they've found that MMR is a better indicator of true skill relative to the entire player base than the visual rank. Yes, if you play a fair match against people who all similar in MMR or people with even more MMR, the game will be harder to win, but because of that, you'll get more LP every win and lose less LP. Over time, if you truly deserved to be in a higher rank, you'll win games against games against people in that MMR range more than 50% of the time.
Just because someone has a higher rank, doesn't mean they are actually that much better if they are in the same lobby. A plat in a silver game usually means that plat is probably really bad at being a plat player and has a silver level MMR. If you look at all of your games, a random player being much higher rank than everyone else in the lobby happens very rarely and often only when there are very few players in queue as most people have MMRs and ranks that are pretty close to each other.
@@coolbrotherf127 You are correct. The issue with all of this is that it takes far too many games to climb past ant MMR "sticking point" If your MMR is higher than your rank you should be receiving significantly higher LP gains to ensure you reach the rank your current MMR reflects. The issue i find is being bronze with a silver MMR means i need to VS silver players to climb out of bronze. Regardless of the other players MMR's i should not have to play against a brick wall. Keep in mind that if i do climb into silver, my MMR is now started to attract gold players and here in is my problem. Nobody should have to VS players of a higher skill bracket to climb. You should only ever VS players of a higher skill bracket when you have reached the peak of the previous.
Regardless of how the MMR system works, if you are trying to climb you will be matched with people better than you. A silver player can have some bad games, be placed in bronze games and stomp. While the MMR system appears to work, it does have a large grey area that prevents players from climbing.
@@Artemis0567 The only thing preventing you from climbing is your own skill level. If silver players are your wall, then you don't belong in silver yet. Playing against people slightly better than you is also a benefit not a hindrance. It means that it gives you a benchmark aim for, and players to learn from. If they are doing things better than you, figure out what that is. If you can't figure it out, ask a coach who can. Everyone who climbs the ladder has to continuously face players of a higher skill bracket to keep climbing. Otherwise there would be no reason to keep improving. Wanting to climb, and actually improving to climb are very different.
Plus you have to be intentional and consistent with your improvement. Randomly playing ranked every now and then will never give you enough experience to learn anything very quickly.
I would much rather have much longer que times than have an auto filled player vs an not filled player especially at high elo.
At high elos, common roles would have multi-hour queue times most likely, or you would get bigger elo discrepancies (like low diamonds playing vs challenger)
3 problems :
- that's what you want but not what the majority wants. But it would impact to everyone
- you probably would stop playing at some point. It sounds ok for the first few games but once you play your fourth game with 40+min queue you would regret it probably.
- higher queue time probably means less players playing and less revenue for riot so it would probably impact their income negativly.
That would work okay if there was a relatively even assortment of mained roles but even a 1% difference in roles being popular means that the wait builds up over time. So if 1% less people play jungle than any other role, for example, the games are limited by the amount of junglers in queue and then while junglers get games very fast to almost instantly, the wait time builds up for the other roles, getting endlessly longer until people start leaving queue because they can't be bothered anymore. And at that point, I think the system is even more flawed than it is currently, basically relying on people dequeueing for things to level out and at the point where people aren't queueing anymore because it's too long, that is a worse system than we have now.
@@brubie7584 wow. maybe riot should make every role enjoyable to play, rather than leaving them in their dogshit states.
@@sneakysunset1765 3 answers
1. that IS what the majority wants. no one wants auto fill in the game, except the lazy riot devs who dont want to put the time in to actually balance the game.
2. maybe we shouldn't have roles that feel so dogshit to play no one wants to play them.
3. see number 2
What if you make it so you just can’t get autofilled for a game you would be promoting for
I find it absolutely impossible that ranked players would rather wait for like 5-10 minutes per game for their role instead of 2.5 to be autofilled and that league of legends doesn't have enough players. If you want an example just look at WoW and FF14. The thing is "tight knit" matchmaking actually means the matches are fixed.
@@blueicer101it doesn't matter how many players league have. It's proportion. If you have 1 billion supports and 2 billions midlaners, than it's still 2 times more midlaners that couldn't find the match without autofill.
Yeah, but its probably not a 2 min difference, its probably closer to 30 min difference. So you either get 5 min queue with autofill or 30 min queue without it. And let me tell you, most players are not willing to wait 30 minutes for a single game, or 1 hour for 2 games.
depends on how bad ppl are at their off roles or how much they hate the role. Ideally you play all roles on ranked to get a grasp of your "real" rank but a good amount of people will just dodge if they don't get main role because they would lose mmr and only want the rank to flex or whatever. if they are gonna dodge all fill games anyway they might as well just wait in a longer queue.
You should be told during the match found screen what role it has found you and you should be allowed to decide if you are fine with proceeding. I would rather not play then be put into a certain Lane. The rest I'm fine with generally. I'm pretty certain other games have similar things. Dota even tells you about the general skill discrepancy in the match it has found and gives you an option right next to accept match to stay in queue.
That point is legit addresed in the video though. People will just always reject playing when filled as support, and we're back to square 1, 40 minutes queue times
riot specifically removes the ability to look others up on opgg, via hidden champ select name, to reduce dodging. i dont see your idea getting into riot's try list at all unfortunately
Remove autofill and remove dodge
So make 9 other ppl lose 5 minutes for remake and dodger gets full lp loss?
Me getting autofilled jungle losing to jungle main getting reported as banned for sucking 😂 thanks riot
People in good queue time elos would rather wait the extra few minutes for the role they want.
People in elos with 30 minute queue times would rather get the role they queued for after WAITING 30 MINUTES.
There is no scenario the majority would prefer to be autofilled.
There is no argument. Only delusion.
If people are ok with being autofilled. Let them opt-in. "Fill" is also a role option.
You're making assumptions here. That getting the missing support will "only be a few extra minutes" (wishful thinking), and that waiting means you "deserve" your role. Okay so after you wait 30 minutes, Riot games will spawn a support player into existence to be in your game.
@paradajzisnicla the only relevant assumption is that most people don't like playing a role they didn't queue for
"Extra few minutes" It wasn't an extra few minutes. Challenger players played 2nd games during queue because it took over an hour to get into a match during prime time. You must be a zoomer new season player because you speak like someone that started way after autofill was a thing
@ISesseriI you clearly can't read.
Literally my second sentence.
moron
@@TheCosmicAstro-1 hour is two times 30 minutes. So it's apparent you can't read and you aren't good at math.
You are insane if you think waiting that long for a game is preferable to just playing the game while waiting for a shorter time period.
In a healthier game, they wouldn't need autofill because there would be players wanting to play those roles. But this game isn't in a healthy state, so idc about autofill because its shit and forces a lot of dodges in any queue I play.
It doesn't have anything to do with the game being healthy. it has to do with the fact that support is the most uncool thing to gamers. People play video games to shoot lasers and fly, like Superman. No one wants to play Princess Peach, they want to play Superman. Main character syndrome makes support seem lame compared to mid lane. Would you rather one-shot people as Talon or would you rather play a gay little fairy who sprinkles water on her friends every so often? That's the question gamers ask themselves when they choose a role to play. It doesn't matter that support is easy or elo-inflated, or that Talon is weak right now. it's about what's cool, not if the game is healthy.
@@loudwhispre9406 My spicy take: 90% of players don't want to be responsible for anyone but themselves. This is why DPS roles are so popular: Supports and Tanks have to worry about what their teammates are doing, they have a responsibility to enable the rest of their team. All a DPS has to do is damage, they exist to be enabled by everyone else. Jungler and Support have responsibilities beyond get fed and carry. It just so happens that these roles tend to catch everyone's shit when things go wrong.
It isn't about the role not being fun, it's simply a more stressful, thankless role. You could play the game 100% perfectly as a jungler but still your team will scream jungle diff if you lose. Tank runs off on his own and dies, he flames the healer. Tank lands a great engage but a flanker kills a healer? "Where's the peel, tank?"
@@loudwhispre9406 isn't that intentionally part of the design and not just because it's support for gamers in general though? not every moba has this boxed in system for supports(espc repeated class styles). depending on the moba sometimes it's the hardest role in the game(with the deserving impact) and has plentiful variance and char diversity paired with having extremely good dopamine ult design. sometimes it ends up identical to league with supports just being relatively more boxed in. it depends on how the game designs it and how it falls into place.
@@kf532Riot is so down the hole with current role system that there is coming back from it
@@krejman I mean it has its upsides. When ppl like playing a certain class they usually have plenty of options. Can't just ban one or two enchanters to make enchanter players not have picks but for ppl who don't like the classes in a role it shows the weaknesses of the system for sure.
I think it's funny even in his strawman fake world he says the queues will eventually solve itself but has to backtrack to make his point.
Maybe allow people to be autofill protected if they reach honor 5? I'd like to hear opinions about this
Lol, you would create a monster, cause no honor 5 autofill=more autofill for players without honor 5, so you'd put already toxic players into autofill simulator or players who didn't play this season much, imagine you start your climb and got autofilled often, while your opponent who alrwady played a lot will be guaranteed to play his role.
Am I stupid or is that graph completely different from what actually happens? No way the amount of adc players doubles every hour. Its like 90% the same adc players that are still in the queue, so the graph only goes up by a little bit. Not saying its not a problem, but the graph blows the problem way out of proportion.
People start playing at different times depending on when they finish school/work etc. and the ratio of adcs to supports is remains the same, so aside from the adc's quitting due to 30 min queue times, the problem does just continue to grow. Supports get instant queues, adc queue's grow until late hours when people start going to sleep.
The adc graph would only go up a little bit if you assume that no new adc players are queuing up. While adcs might not double every hour, it does demonstrate that the adc queue will completely outpace the support one as time continues.
That's if you assume the ADCs only play 1 game and never queue up again for the rest of the night. They'll keep cycling in and out as the baseline while more players join the pool over time
@@paradajzisnicla my guy, you are living in 2012. Support has been more popular to que up for than adc across all elos for 3-4 years now.
Even if you're right (which I don't think you are) the ratio of people queueing up for popular roles vs unpopular roles would stay the same.
cant you just get a loss mitigation if you lose as autofill? it would fix the frustration somewhat and it would make a disadvantageous game worth trying
They tried this with positional ranks. Players griefed while autofilled making the game experience miserable.
Ok, dont remove autofill. ¿But can we remove anonymous lobbies? this has been singlehandely the worst implementation in modern league. You're locked out of the choice of logical dodging while simultaneously being forced to play every game, regardless of the ammount of autofills on your team vs the enemy team, regardless of not being able to dodge players that will intentionally ruin the game.
Anonymous lobbies have caused match quality to severely drop in 99.9% of all elos, save for high challenger/grandmaster.
Anonymous lobbies actually make the quality of matches BETTER, not worse. You're not in high elo, so you don't understand. There are a tiny amount of people in Masters or above. If you play in those ranks, you will play with the same people, over and over and over. If one of them is a troll, or one of them is a stream sniper, you literally cannot avoid that person. Its like trying to avoid a roommate who lives in the same room as you, except the roommate hates you and tries to ruin your life every time they see you. Anonymous lobbies are the only reason the game is playable at high elo. Anonymous lobbies do not do anything to make the game worse, I'm not sure what kind of cope you're on that makes you think that.
@@loudwhispre9406 With non anonymous lobbies you could actually check op.ggs before going into a game and decide if you wanted to play it or not. It definitely improved game quality, since you could actually read a lobby and determine if it was worth spending time on the game or not based on the players.
Snipers don't actually get dissuaded by anonymous lobbies since you could just match the queue accept button and hover champions to see if you are on the same game or not (this is under the impression that the streamer/high elo player is playing without delay and without queue cover, for some reason).
Anonymous lobbies remove player accountability and their entire purpose is just to artificially deflate the dodging issue without actually solving the reason people used to dodge spam (which was awful lobbies). Essentially, Riot is saying "you have to play EVERY game you queued up for, no the games will not be better, yeah the trolls are still there, no, you aren't allowed to see it till the game goes into loading screen".
It also makes league players even more irresponsible than they already are. Its basically saying "no, you can't single out this one player during lobbies now, you're stuck with him unless you afk and force your team to remake AND get penalized for saving the other 3 players time and lp".
riot has zero reason to support dodging as a legitimate strategy, why do you think you get punished when you dodge?
You're locked out of logical dodging? Good
@@loudwhispre9406 no way you're high elo. even IF you are, you're definitely not high ìQ so you dont understand.
if the problem is running into the same trolls repeatedly, then KNOWING who you are playing, allows you to dodge/avoid that person. you think a player cannot change his decision to then start grieving you once he recognizes you in game?
Why cant we just have different wait times for each role? I'd happily wait 20mins to play if I get my role every game. I'd even queue for an hour and play another game while I wait. If there are half the support players than adc, surely we'd just need to wait twice as long? Even if we had to wait for a full game plus wait time for our turn to have a support, thats still like 30-40mins and I'm down. At least trial it, I think heaps of people feel this way.
I have never waited in a Que in overwatch for longer than the actual game??? hard cap there
You never experienced event X so nobody ever experienced it, what are you, sub 90 IQ?
When role lock was introduced on OW1, 20min dps queues were very real. That was the main reason I dropped the game.