My impression is that he is by far the most critical guest which makes perfect sense with his position as General and Artistic Director. I imagine his entire life revolves around listening and judging music critically for inclusion into an orchestra's program. And if video game music is to be great it doesn't need just good cheerleaders but also good critics.
it is pretty refreshing! I'd love to hear more of Kostis' opinions. it does leave me with the desire to delve a bit more into his thought process. feels like I lack the knowledge framework to properly and fully appreciate his critique. would also be nice to eventually figure out what would be ground-breaking for him :) easier said than done, though!
@@DesertWooder Agreed. If I was putting together a soundtrack he would be high on the list of people to critique it. And If I had to pick a piece he might enjoy it would be "Curse of the Sad Mummy" All live instruments and the violin and cello especially are some phenomenal performances.
He starts by saying he likes angry birds music. He was looking for weird and unusual kind of soundtracks. He got the most generic stuff you can get. Chip tune and synth something would have probably left more of an impact.
@@ryumajin3 Since Fromsoft uses alot orchestic stuff, it be the type of thing that he's very familiar with. Like you said, he mentioned liking Angry Birds, and its very likely due to it being something that he has never really been exposed to before. If Marco has a second shot with him, it might be better to pick things outside orchestra, or that orchestra being used sparingly/in complement to other non-classic instruments.
This guy was so critical about everything and I felt its very refreshing seeing a more conservative point of view about our favorite songs! Also being a fellow Greek i couldn't hate the guy especially after his take on what is good music or not! Anyways the most important thing is that Marco you keep making great content and your originality is what makes you genuine and special! Keep up the hard work and thank you for making our days so much better 🙏❤
He was critical, but it is not like it was baseless. Imo he was very objective the whole time and gave praise where it was warranted and critique where it was needed. Excellent stream.
I think for a guest like this who is familiar with the tropes of soundtrack music you'd want music that's more bold and unique to video games rather than music that draws from the cinematic style. Something like Undertale, Doom, Cuphead, or early Final Fantasy might be more interesting to him. Perhaps he'd even enjoy some of the jazzier stuff from modern Mario Kart or even the ambient music of Minecraft. This is all with hindsight of course, I appreciate the difficulty of trying to adapt to your guest on the fly.
@@MarcoMeatballPlays Something unconventional huh? Maybe something from League of Legends like "Fiddlesticks Champion Theme" could catch him surprise? At least i'm sure that there's not many song use human scream. Or "Aphelios Champion Theme" with it vocal play?
Yeah, I was just going to comment the same thing, he seems to enjoy unique sounds only present in video games. Like I think he would appreciate synthetic sounds more when they don't try to replicate real life instruments, but do their thing. Like how Mick Gordon made the crazy synth thing he used as an instrument in Doom or chiptune stuff, only possible on the computer. Maybe get him over for round two sometime?
Really enjoy it. Mr Kostis is very critical with clear reasoning for his likes and dislikes in each piece without being malicious and elitist so I found that very refreshing. Pretty sure most comments here would show that people like his straightforward critical takes and tried to come up with music that can suprise him so is all good Marco. Must be pretty tough to to pivot on the spot for you though :)) Mr Kostic critics based on his long years on the job is the kind of experience that nearly impossible to come by for us music fans and video gamers so I really enjoyed this. Marco If you feel that this makes you too passive and blindsided then maybe a short survey for the guess before-hand might help: like what music they enjoy now and then, what do they look for in music now and then and which pieces or artists they think can really showcase that or fulfill that need and want? Which art direction they like etc? Your guess's and yours experience is the priority and I'm sure us mature fans wish for that too.
I appreciate this very much and I think a survey might be worth doing from now on. It wasn’t bad but I found myself scrambling simply because I expected a different experience!
@@MarcoMeatballPlays Ayy tough crowd :)) You will increase your repertoire for sure which is totally worth it. You have quality content thats for sure but different audience, different night ay.
Kostis Protopapas is clearly a man of acquired tastes and solid views. I have great appreciation for this kind of critique. It is also a great point that people really aren't hearing stuff without electronic amplification and really should experience it more. No matter your setup, it can't compete with a proper live orchestra.
I'd like to see what music does he praise. It's wrong to assume that he's a man of taste because he's grumpy about what he hears. It may very well be that his taste is different, or simply shit. And no, live orchestra isn't always better. the variety and creativity that modern electronic and synth music can lend to a piece of music can elevate it to a new level. It's not like art and human ingenuity stopped at the start of the 20th century. I have been to a decent number of live orchestral concerts and quality-wise, they can't hold a candle to studio recordings.
The fact that everything has to go through a mastering phase already changes the experience drastically. It's the interpretation of the person doing the mastering at that point,.
@@factdispenser5829 >I have been to a decent number of live orchestral concerts and quality-wise, they can't hold a candle to studio recordings. It's not about 'quality'. It's about authenticity.
@@factdispenser5829 Quality-wise ? Are you talking about sound quality ? You're basically saying here that quality-wise, an Imagine Dragons live concert can't hold a candle to one of their songs being broadcasted at home on your stereo speakers. I mean... yeah ? Does that mean an Imagine Dragons fan won't want to go to one of their live concerts ? Of course not ! Hearing the voice and seeing the person perform in front of you is still the Grail. Well, as an EDM enjoyer and lyrical choir singer, i can tell you that that's true for any kind of music. Live performances are just a different kind of experience. Now, if you just dislike the sound of traditional instruments (whether it be violins or drums), which i don't have an issue with, just avoid them. But never have I ever in my life met someone who couldn't appreciate the beauty, and most importantly the skill, of a musician playing an instrument that they spent 15, 20, 30 years practicing on. That is a exceptional human prowess to witness. It seems to me that you are simply reacting to people who hate on modern music by hating on classical, as if showing appreciation for one necessarily meant degrading the other. It doesn't. There are millions of us who can see the art, entertainment and beauty in both.
I love that during his critique of Risk of Rain he just leans over to a piano or keyboard to complement his point. I really appreciate him being able to just drop knowledge in the moment like that.
I loved his perspective He was not saying that the music was bad. He was just saying it was "normal" "standard", not extraordinary and that he lacked the context the others probably had. And that is okay, if he thinks of it more like workmens music than artists music then that is his perogative however, I think he just need to exposed to other examples and that is okay. I almost think Doom and Ultrakill or even breadth of the wild would work better.
Man calling the games Breadth of the Wild (because the map is so big) and Tiers of the Kingdom (because the map now has three vertical layers) is so funny to me
I do that with many "top music", only when the music is simplistic, when it lacks variety in instruments, chords, speed and shifts in rhythm. That's why I like progressive and post rock.
29:02 As an adhd pianist who wears glasses, the fact that he held his glasses with his mouth in order to demonstrate the Chopin excerpt instead of putting them back on or tucking them into his shirt or something won me over. 😂❤
Tough crowd, but very interesting to listen to! It's nice to see someone be genuinely critical about stuff, even in front of an audience. I feel like the selection of songs could've been a bit better but I like how varied it was regardless to give him a view of multiple different songs. Definitely one of the more unique visitors so far!
I like how when Kostis starts listening, there are a lot of mannerisms he starts doing, it looks like there are a LOT of thoughts crossing his mind while he really pays attention.
I love it how you can see something lights up in Kostis mind when the glasses either go on or off 😂 Also i must say i absolutely love this series, great job as usual!
This guy is great lol I like how critical he is and I wanna see if we can find something that would genuinely blow his socks off or hear what he’s heard in his life that he thinks is amazing
I really appreciate you putting chapters in this video! Ive got the attention span of a goldfish so I usually listen to the tracks that I favor before going back to the others and this makes it much easier
So, on the topic of Halo, I think it's interesting that he commented on the "down to Earth"-iness of it. The first Halo game centers around a ring world (the titular Halo). It's entirely artificial, but it _does_ have a thriving ecosystem and impressive landmarks. It's easy to forget you're on an artificial construct in space until you look up and see the other side of the ring arching overhead, or find one of the unnatural tunnel formations that serve as maintenance shafts. With the Halo lid open, I can't recommend the soundtrack of Halo 3: ODST enough. It contributes a lot to the game's incredible atmosphere. Lots of soulful, blues-y pieces and driving rock arrangements. I think it would be a great source for slightly different tracks.
This is amazing. I always get the feeling that the premise of these videos is based on the idea that serious people don’t take video games seriously and are positively surprised if the music is decent. The fact that he, as somebody who isn’t involved in gaming, treats the genre as fundamentally serious and reviews it as such ia much more flattering.
I really appreciate, that Mr. Protopapas is actually critical of the music presented to him, I think that elevates this already great format even more.
Definitely need a round two! Mr. Protopapas' commentary and criticism felt so insightful and deserve; great works should be held against even greater standards and Mr. Protopapas' absolutely has them! Awesome video!
Very fun watch, with trying to win Mr. Kostis over 😅😅 I see why in weeks past you had a survey about whether you should be posting footage if your guests are more critical of the music being shown. Coming from a family who is very critical of music overall (a memory of mine is making a regional band in high school to which my brother critiqued me for not being placed higher on my chair despite him never playing an instrument), it was very refreshing hahaha!! Please do not be discouraged from posting more of this sort of content if your guests react in this way.
The Halo theme being down to earth is quite appropriate imo, since that's the music of humanity fighting for its survival against the alien forces of the Covevant. On a fun note, when they remade the entire soundtrack for Halo CE Anniversary, they too spoke about the Irish flare of this melody.
Also most of the first game is on an alien ring world which has artificial gravity, so that also is a point for why it's bound to earth. Part of the main theme is being played at the start of Silent Cartographer which is an island of the ring.
I really loved the conversations on live vs. synthetic music, as that is a big part of why a lot of this music does not work for me out of context. If I am already familiar with the piece, I know what it is evoking. Outside of that context, the music has to work harder to reach me, and the predictability of synthetic instruments lessens the blow (even if the composition can surprise). Whereas pieces like Civilizations or I am the Sea from Final Fantasy XIV work for me entirely because I can connect them with places and characters and know what the music represents. I don't doubt that I could identify the context simply from listening to some pieces (I am the Sea is achingly obvious in its seaside atmosphere), but I'm inferring instead of experiencing it firsthand.
Judging from the comments I was expecting him to really dislike these tracks, so I was surprised to see he was just mildly unenthusiastic lol. This was a treat.
Great Video! As others have said, very much the most critical guest to come forth until now, which was refreshing. Also his demeanor reminds me of many teachers I had at uni, that jolly wise jokester vibe is unmatched.
I'm actually glad he was critical of them and was willing to talk about it, we don't get that alot and though most people prefer to hear their favorites praised I'm glad he could be honest. It does make me hope we can find him something that can impress him.
Halo since the first game has always focused on the more military/soldier aspect. The games primarily focus on a super beefed up foot solder. I enjoyed hearing the explanation of the halo theme, because funnily enough, when I think of halo, I don't think of star wars, destiny, or some kind of space exploration game. The game is mostly a first person shooter, and even the vehicles, while futuristic, are nearly always to dominate the opposing grounded troops.
I actually completely disagree with this. To me Halo is defined by it's worldbuilding with different political alien and otherworldly alien superstructures. But Halo 2 is my favorite game in the series, where the focus is much more on the Covenant's politics and society, so that makes sense.
@MajoraZ yeah, now that you mention it Halo can mean a lot of things. Halo 1 really focused on the Marine aspect. Then, it turned into a zombie horror game. Halo 2 then focuses on the politics of your enemy, and your own relationship with them. Cool stuff.
@NeeoAnt just cause it's overated doesn't mean somebody can't like it. I've personally stopped liking the core of the series after Halo Reach but I don't dis on people who do like it. I would actually agree though, the halo main theme is a bit over rated
the way he plays the piano with that mirth in his eyes while holding his glasses in his mouth tho. that's so fun. just a little bit of joy-sharing to be had here. as usual it's great to hear how music professionals think about video game music, because there's always bits of technicality involved and it's always fun to learn something new. learning about chopin from a video about game music sure isn't what i think i would do but here we are, and i'm happy for it. i may know very little about music but i sure do like knowing things other people don't know.
Many of the pieces are a bit stereotypical "epic music".. so I'm with Kostis =) As someone who also dislikes the synth string sounds I wonder if he'd still like something that's entirely synthetic that doesn't try to imitate any real instruments (EDIT: well he kinda answered that in the end). Anyway, great video as always :)
I don’t think you’d need to put forward the more experimental tracks? Answers Heavensward Dragonsong Tomorrow and Tomorrow Flow Black Steel, Cold Embers Unbending Steel Endcaller Pilgrimage Maybe a bunch of the more unexpected tracks could be thrown in at the end to show the sheer variety with stuff like Close in the Distance Fiend Dedicated to Moonlight In the Balance Twice Stricken Etc
I agree but I think FFXIV you need to put gameplay. There were PSAs warning the community on RUclips and Reddit (I think) to put gameplay of FFxiv or it will get copyright-striked.
Honestly I really liked this one. I'm often skeptical of these types of videos (classical musician/singer/vocal coach listens to a new genre for the first time), as there often seems to be an incentive to only say positive things, so it's great to see someone who actually challenges our musical tastes. Also really enjoyed Kostis' insights, really thoughtful responses, and never came across as dismissive or snobby, even when he obviously was not too impressed with some of the tracks. I realize that it might not have been the experience you expected or hoped for, but it was really interesting to listen to. Would love to see him return for a second round if you're both willing.
If you can get Mr. Protopapas on again some time, I think you definitely deserve a round two with him. With hindsight and not having to scramble to try and find something he might REALLY like, I think you could definitely pick out some great and less by-the-numbers game tracks to get his critique of.
I have never been wanted to go a live concert than now. What he said is 100% true, The no. of times I've listened to music without a device is so low and it's true for most people. Thank Kostis Protopapas for being here
Baba Yetu was the first game soundtrack that made me sit up and listen. It was so far beyond anything else at the time and even today it's one of my favourite pieces of music.
@@RoxxSermIt was later included into album Calling all Dawns which had all kinds of songs, from polish hymn to Japanese haiku and all brilliant. Btw Baba Yetu is essentially Lords prayer in swahili.
I FORGOT THAT BABA YETU WAS FROM A GAME!!! my choir class in high school sang it TWICE and it seemed to be one of everyone's favorites 🤣 it was one of the few songs continuously sang when class was over and we were packing up
He has such an intense and passionate listening. He’s critical in the way that you want to impress him. He doesn’t give anything less than his true feelings. But he’s extremely humble and there’s no sense of elitism, just fact and his honest preference. It’s awesome to see someone like this exposed to new music and really listening to it as deeply and loving as they possibly can. Such a great time
This man is hard to please, and that's great. I really enjoyed listening to his criticisms and insights. We need more people like him in order to make game music all it can be.
Idk if these people you interview are listening with their pc's studio audio or not. But if so, you should REALLY recommend them to get headphones! They change EVERYTHING when it comes to hearing sound.
If anyone is wondering, Halo's theme has monks and ancient, or tribal aspects, because the story involves ancient alien artifacts from when humans were hunters and gatherers, and earlier. The composer, Marty O'Donnell specifically mentioned using monk style chants to reference that aspect of the lore. So it's cool they picked up on that immediatedly.
I agree with pretty much all he said, but there's this "elitism"(in lack of a better word) with live performances that I don't fully agree with. I do think being there and hearing the music first hand it's a beautiful experience, but i also think hearing well mixed music it's as beautiful (well mixed being the important part here) and some times it allows composers to strive for more wild and creative sounds wich in my experience it's the music i tend to enjoy the most. Anyways great video as always, loved the more critical way of viewing the music and excited for the next edition.
Well I think he said for operas and orchestras he prefers to hear the “live recording” of performances over the “studio recording”. Meaning he listens at home or at work live recordings as a personal preference. Not to pay money and be present in front of or orchestra or opera to fully appreciate the music. So I would say it’s not elitism just different taste of music recording or sound mixing .
I think I sort of get his perspective; there's something of a "I've listened to too much" in video game music too. While I would never find good music bad because of it, I sometimes just tune out of new music because it feels very familiar; that's why weird (e.g. buying goods at palmira) and fresh (jolts in the forest) make for such memorable songs for me. Naturally, the setting of how one listens to it matters too; and I get the live experience being different, too. The idea that there's basically no equalization in a live performance is an interesting point, that's definitely true.
I actually think this one turned out really well! I absolutely understand what he means when something is "basic" and like a lot of classic pieces that are currently available. That's the equivalent of us hearing typical pop songs and sighing because they all sound similar and there's nothing "unique" that stands out to us. To him, particularly for Bloodbourne, there was nothing memorable or noteworthy which I appreciate. Certain pieces of game music feel very different when experienced in the moment they're designed for e.g. Final Fantasy XIV's "Answers" when you face Bahamut. His entire battle is synchronised to that song and when certain moves hit, the lyrics hit different. Without that context some video game music may lose its impact and since he lacks exposure to that context, I can appreciate the "It's mediocre" or "there's nothing special" in that respect. I also understand the view of live vs synth versions of instruments, I've seen Halo/Civ VIs/FF/Zelda pieces etc performed by live orchestras and they really do sound phenomenal against their video game version. I still love the video game versions, but there's something magical about hearing the live instruments as well as watching the musicians (and the singers) as they feel each note too. There's a place for both types of music and it'd be cool to provide some of those real orchestral pieces e.g. Distant Worlds or Video Game Orchestra versions so that you can introduce them to the 'real' version too! (Appreciate that may not be possible with copyright claims but things like Dancing Mad have real organs in those performances which they may prefer to hear.)
It was a real challenge this particular episode but I appreciate how genuine and honest kostis was. I’m doing my best to provide them with interesting stuff and he was the first to sort of push back.
Hey, I discovered your chanel a few days ago, and i'm watching all those "classical musician discover video game's music", they are amazing. I higly suggest the music from League of Legend, Lulu and Shaco. It got an AMAZING violin "concerto" part that is incredible, and really feel like the guy who wrote it understand the instrument. And for personal discovery, there is a good documentary "Frequencies - The Music of League of Legends" which allow to understand that world of video game music compostion. Keep the good work, you are amazing.
I think the best recent example of space music was Interstellar. The inclusion of the organ moved it just outside of the orchestral “comfort zone” while adding an almost reverent and religious tone.
"there experience more complete" he is critical. but he understands. for real. bring him again! he is not critical just for the sake of it. i would love to hear what he listen to
AHA First one here! It's always lovely to see you do these things, it opens the minds of others who have either have never heard of these master pieces or closed off their journey to the world of videogame music... Thank you for doing these videos, they always make me excited and happy when I see them come up in my recommended sections! Much love from Cephalon! 💖💖💖💖💖💖 I'd love to see more of these videos continue on and open others' minds up to a larger variety of master pieces!
It's worth noting that the scores that are recorded live are usually not rehearsed or rehearsed for mere hours before it's recorded. Hence it's very unlikely to ever see anything, even if it's live recorded, approach a piece put on by an actual symphony orchestra as anything played during a public performance is far better prepared.
I love these! They have quickly become some of my favorite content on youtube (and my only request besides more of these, is that the next bloodborne song you use is Lady Maria's song!) Thank you for showing video game music to others and introducing us to these great minds in the world of music!
When I talk to fans, i like to hear what they enjoy, since its pure and immediate. When i listen to connoisseurs, we both know what we already like, so their direction and critique is way more interesting involving their expertise. Like how a chef would prepare a dish in a different way to make the flavor different.
Gacha technically isn't gamble, because pity system exist. Yeah, that's the only way it could go pass the legal hurdles. Yeah, it was a big case once, in Japan, back when "digital pachinko" aka gacha was still in its early infancy.
I do think with some context of how this music is fitting the visuals on screen, he would be a bit more impressed. As I dont think it's just about putting it on the same standards as a classical song and then calling it effectively "mid" because it does nothing new. It is doing something new because it is held to the constraints of the story the game is telling on screen. I'm no expert on classical music, but I did almost listen to it exclusively for a good portion of my life, and I can 100% without a doubt say that video game music has been more impactful to me from an emotional perspective. The very fact that he says he enjoys the music of the ONE game he owns, I feel like he should be a bit more sympathetic as to the impact these songs can have on the gamer.
I am enjoying these videos immensely. There are so many references to things i've both grown up with and learned to love as an adult. Thank you so much.
"new alexandria" by martin o'donnel is a very powerful piece, but maybe less so if you have not played halo reach. To me, it evokes a sense of hopelessness and i feel melancholic listening to it.
What I got from this video and his love for Angry Birds, I really do feel like Kostis would have a special appreciation for the Fall Guys main theme hahaah, its a quirky banger. But also, yeah, I think generally a bit more of a diverse library of music from videogames. I think something from Danganronpa or Undertale for example would tickle his fancy.
You should look into some Kingdom Hearts music. Yoko Shimomura is one great composer, you will love her stuff. Hard to choose where to start, possibly Master of Masters theme, or Vector to the Heavens. Or any other one is just as good!
It would be interesting to get someone like Geebz on here who is a composer now already kind of familiar with video game music and has now begun his own journey into the world of playing video games and maybe showing him some more out there stuff he hasn't heard before or simply having a conversation about some pieces. There's definitely a completely different atmosphere that playing a game brings to some of these tracks, it's like club music, I would never listen to that kind of music normally but when in a club it's some of the greatest music I've ever heard. There's plenty of game music that I don't really care about, but in the moment while playing the game, it opens up a whole new experience
this my second video. i just watched the opera pianist video. it was great but dude... seriously if possible i wanna see this guy again. he is honest with his opinion. and funny. i hope u see the comment and hope he comes again. since u said u like to meet ppl from around the world. hello from saudi arabia
I am loving the format. This us great stuff. A word to help with the craft of an interview, this is basically Larry King's advice: Try to keep questions and follow ups brief! If you want to provoke more talking, you can even just repeat the most interesting phrase of something they just said.
Sir just exudes experience and has some insane standards. We all love this music but everything can fit into a spectrum. This is a nice perspective because it really ephasises that truly great music cannot exist in a void. And even though i felt appalled to hear the bloodborne track be called "mid" (lol) it shows how important is for good music to be experienced rather than just heard, either in a game as a player or as a listener to the vibrant strings in a concert. A true learning experience in this video Marco and thank you Kostis!
By insane standards you mean mostly objective ones. It magically becoming the greatest thing ever just because you "experienced" it is also quite a stretch.
I find that the majority of our love for something comes from linking it with a personal experience, whether that be a moment we experienced, a feeling, or feelings that we've felt, or some scene that we've witnessed. These tend to be the most impactful impressions as they trigger what we felt at the time and that, in combination with the music, it is almost always more impactful than what we felt with the event/feeling alone. It also tends to be why we have such different views when experiencing the same thing. We all have different experiences and things to link them to.
@@belaf1329 bro just casually throws out “experience” as if it doesn’t have a huge impact on your perception. The hill I will die on is that most songs from musicals, plays and even operas can be pretty mid without the visuals from the actors and stage. Art that is designed to be apart of something greater is not to be judged solely based on how it is in vacuum.
That specific song was rather boring and safe. Nice and epic in the moment of playing when you are immersed but not really playlist material outside of it, without any attachment to the game itself.
It's so interesting to get these different points of view on something that has just always been around for me. thanks!! this is super cool to hear and see.
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When Kostis glasses come off, you know he has entered his second stage! 😅
Damn yeah this guy's got a good ear, the Halo theme is inspired by Irish folk music. One of the directors Martin O'Donell is Irish and drew on some of that for inspo
I know he's probably a very occupied person, but I would love to see him reacting to more musics in the future if possible, hearing the opinions of someone who deeply knows what he's talking about and learning more about these songs is amazing ❤ seeing his reactions to some musics like Tenebre Rosso Sangue Empty Tones Fleeting Words etc.
Glad to see Halo here, but I gotta say I think the main Halo theme often overshadows all the other amazing Halo music that's out there (Also, I think the MJOLNIR mix version of the main theme from Halo 2 is better!): There's a lot of other tracks across the franchise of a similar caliber, and often in very different styles and genres. My personal favorite track is the opening "Rain" portion of "Deference for Darkness" in Halo ODST, which is an extremely moody noire influenced piece with some jazzy elements sprinkled in, like a breathtaking slow sax solo. Perfectly encapsulates the melancholy that is roaming an abandoned city at night as your way is only lit up by glowing futuristic neon signs and burning wreckage. I actually originally commented a full list of 25 other Halo tracks I think are as good as the main theme and what I like about them, but the comment was getting automatically withheld from public view, sadly. I will say some other favorites are "In Amber Clad", "Under the Cover of Night", and "Heavy Price Paid". My bias for sadder, more emotional pieces (In Amber Clad aside) and Halo 2 is showing, but alas I can't post the full list with more game and stylistic variety. Also, on the full VoD version, I saw somebody else comment that "Halo since the first game has always focused on the more military/soldier aspect. The games primarily focus on a super beefed up foot solder. I enjoyed hearing the explanation of the halo theme, because funnily enough, when I think of halo, I don't think of star wars, destiny, or some kind of space exploration game", and I have to say I personally disagree. To me, Halo is defined by it's devotion to otherworldly alien superstructures often contrasted against naturalistic environments; and it's worldbuilding and setting with different humand and alien factions and civilizations and their political and ideological struggles, very much in line with those other sci-fi franchises. Mind you, that makes sense, since Halo 2 is my favorite game in the series and it's very much focused on the internal political and religious structure of the alien Covenant forces, and the emotional/character arc of a specific alien within it and his ideological journey and struggles.
I enjoyed this vid. There's absolutely nothing wrong with honest crticism. Kostis clearly recognised the quality and competence of the production of most of it even if he wasnt blown away in terms of the themes or perhaps innovation and originality. He isnt a gamer so he doesnt have the same link to the music that a person who has played the game can achieve. The Fromsoft one about the vicar is well produced. It thematically fits the game and if I was playing the game i would probably find it much more engaging (i played it so long ago i cant remember if ive heard it before). Here it just didnt hook me as a piece of music at this listening though and maybe even felt a tad generic. That doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it or that it wouldnt hook me if i sat down and had to do the fight.
It was an interesting experience to have a more critic view on the songs, in this case maybe orchestral or live versions could have been a better match
I would've loved to hear his thoughts on Godrick's ost. For someone who listens to classical music casually, that track sounds absurd(and hella cool) to me, so it'd be interesting to know what a professional thinks!
This guy is amazing. I don't know if you can manage to bring him back with hopes of really impressing him. But I love him. Regardless, based on the comments, it seemed like a nice learning experience for you.
I totally agree with what the guest said at the end, that there's no doubt that the context of the music can completely change the experience. For example, in regards to the piece from Bloodborne. From a musical perspective, he's correct in saying that the music is somewhat simplistic, and that it's forumulaic and something he's heard a lot of (which to me sounded more like a series of observations about the piece than critiqeus). But all of those things are intentional decisions by the composer to compliment the boss fight itself. For example, that piece very specifically evokes a very religious sound and feeling through "formula" that we have been conditioned to recognize over hundred of years (the use of choir, the organ, etc) in order to help give context to the fight itself, which is against the first vicar of the Healing Church. And the simplicity of the piece a) helps make the fight unique as it is not a very intense or fast paced piece that by default tends to accompany boss fights (similar to why the elden beast fight stands out in terms of music), and b) imo is composed in a simple manner due to the nature of the opponent, a Cleric Beast, who has loud high pitched screams that would either be lost in the midst of a complex music piece or would detract from the piece by nature of being distracting. In addition, there's the added fact that the piece itself is building upon/referencing a piece from much earlier in the same game, the Cleric Beast theme, which is context you don't get from just listening to the piece on it's own. Which is why it's interesting to have someone react to the piece without that context, as a lot of the contributing factors that help make that song impactful despite it's simplicity and familiarity aren't something that influences them. And for some pieces that might make them less impactful, whereas other pieces rely less on the context of the experience to drive their impact and might seem more "impressive" or "interesting" to a person who listens to a lot of classical music.
Kostis reminds me of many of my Greek relatives with his mannerisms 😄 It's nice ofc to hear praise for OSTs but I think it's also very important to have people who are more critical of the pieces. It's nice that he didn't really seem to hold music in any higher or lower esteem because of where it came from, but that his concerns were more about connecting to the heart of the music itself, apart from the narrative it accompanies. It might be an idea to start throwing in some recordings of live orchestra performances? Like I know FFXIV does them but I'm not sure about other video games. Though I do wish there had been more comment on Tartaglia's theme(s) because the two phases played back to back are quite long and there are a lot of different sounds to it. I love it's accordion (?) parts and the almost aggressive "whalesong" in the second phase.
Great discussion, this guest had very interesting insight ! His expertise was enjoyable and I was intrigued some of his feedback. All in all, a good video yet again. On another note, there's a type of music I don't remember hearing yet in this series and it's rhythm game musics. I find this genre quite interesting and some artists that worked on such games stand out to me as able to merge orchestral and electronic in a very pleasant symbiosis. I often wondered what would people from the classical field think of songs from Cytus, Deemo or other rhythm games.
What's interesting about the comment on Halo is that the first installment feels very anthropocentric and as the games come out you learn that humanity kinda /is/ central to the game's trajectory, but also that there are so many more alien races that make up the backdrop and provide context for humanity's position and importance.
You should react to transformations of Final Fantasy music - from 8 bit, to Distant Worlds (full arrangements), to the official Piano Collection arrangements. Fascinating to see the themes evolve
I appreciated the previous videos where you included more variation in sound and time line (I mean chip tone and restricted non orchestral stuff.). While I do think it is great to get opinion on as he puts it perfectly "popular classical" classical isn't the only thing game music has on offer. But enough of me sitting on my butt telling you how to do your work. I appreciate you in general. You provide a good diversion for when I want to listen to music and be a bit more thoughtful.
As others have said I definitely got the impression Mr. Protopapas was expecting to hear something he hadn't heard before when venturing into what I suspect was (to him) a new medium. And I could feel you trying at the halfway point to find something that might grab him! It might be slightly at odds with your goal of showing industry professionals that video games are capable of producing music as grand and wonderful as what we expect from the classical and orchestral spheres, but for a guest like this I don't think it would be a bad idea to show off some of the broad variety of music that exists in video games. Games like Cuphead, Nier Automata, Mekazoo, Metal Hellsinger, and Silent Hill all have vastly different styles and genres so it might mess with the bread n' butter of "epic" music, but it might be something worth thinking about at least! I've also wondered how some of the guests would respond to "classical" video game themes being performed by symphonic orchestras like what they've done with Super Mario and Zelda music, but showing clips from those concerts might be a copyright nightmare even on the VOD channel. At any rate I think we'd all like you to get Protopapas back on to try and find something that can hook him in!
Marco, you should look into the work of Kota Hoshino, he's a composer and sound designer who works at Fromsoft and scored some of their earlier games, as well as being the principal composer for the Armored Core series. He's entirely self taught after basically falling into the composition role early in his career and as such writes music that is entirely outside convention. Its experimental, harsh and vibrant in a way I think guests like Kostis might respond more positively too, because its music coming from a space (mid budget games) that can allow for people like Hoshino to buck the more traditional styling that's somewhat required for mass appeal. He has incredible knack for building these really catchy rhythms out of parts that individually are super discordant and maybe even unpleasant. Like a functioning bridge made out of drift wood. In particular I really love the Evergrace 1 & 2 scores he did. (See: "Buying Goods At Palmira" and "Shop") Along similar lines, the soundtrack to Drakengard 1 (primarily composed by Nobuyoshi Sano) takes existing classical scores and chops & screws them into sometimes violent, sometimes disorienting tracks that end up providing an extremely intense atmosphere for the game (which is centered around showing the violence and horrors of war in a dark fantasy setting). I'm sure you're familiar with Keiichi Okabe who did the later Drakengard and Nier games, whose music is incredible in its own right, but the Sano stuff is just wild. (See "Chapter VII - In The Skies" and "Weapon Selection" [lol]) Loving this series, have a good one!
There's another way of sometimes getting unamplified performances outside of the opera - fingerstyle guitar. At tiny venues, they might not use amps. Got to see Don Ross and Andy McKee in a room with maybe 40 other people - was amazing!
When he mentioned Angry's birds OST seems like getting him reacting to some chiptune tracks would be kind of up his alley, it seems like he got interested in some chiptune stuff. Games like One shot (The one where you travel to replace the sun) and other similar stuff like the bullet hell ones I forgot the name of that one but it had Japanese characters in it (ah I remembered Tohou), would be more what he was looking for. Though seems like it will be hard finding music in video games for people that prefer live performance and classic instruments because classic instruments are not cheap and getting accoustic's and all of that prepared to record is really expensive which only AAA studios are able to pay for. Also Oxenfree is interesting game I have found, more choice based but still good and has pretty good soundtrack imo, I wonder what will be your opinions on that Marco. The game isn't popular though.
I thought watching this back to back from the Kathy episode 2 was very interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed both of their takes. Also thought you did well on your substitute entries for what he seemed to be addressing. Good stuff.
![CHILE vs. BRASIL [1-2] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ObJt_71AYc/mqdefault.jpg)
My impression is that he is by far the most critical guest which makes perfect sense with his position as General and Artistic Director.
I imagine his entire life revolves around listening and judging music critically for inclusion into an orchestra's program.
And if video game music is to be great it doesn't need just good cheerleaders but also good critics.
it is pretty refreshing! I'd love to hear more of Kostis' opinions.
it does leave me with the desire to delve a bit more into his thought process. feels like I lack the knowledge framework to properly and fully appreciate his critique.
would also be nice to eventually figure out what would be ground-breaking for him :) easier said than done, though!
@@DesertWooder Agreed. If I was putting together a soundtrack he would be high on the list of people to critique it.
And If I had to pick a piece he might enjoy it would be "Curse of the Sad Mummy"
All live instruments and the violin and cello especially are some phenomenal performances.
He starts by saying he likes angry birds music.
He was looking for weird and unusual kind of soundtracks.
He got the most generic stuff you can get.
Chip tune and synth something would have probably left more of an impact.
@@ryumajin3 Since Fromsoft uses alot orchestic stuff, it be the type of thing that he's very familiar with. Like you said, he mentioned liking Angry Birds, and its very likely due to it being something that he has never really been exposed to before. If Marco has a second shot with him, it might be better to pick things outside orchestra, or that orchestra being used sparingly/in complement to other non-classic instruments.
yes like his words alot, all of them good and bad. Good conversation.
This guy was so critical about everything and I felt its very refreshing seeing a more conservative point of view about our favorite songs! Also being a fellow Greek i couldn't hate the guy especially after his take on what is good music or not! Anyways the most important thing is that Marco you keep making great content and your originality is what makes you genuine and special! Keep up the hard work and thank you for making our days so much better 🙏❤
You know… Marco WOULD be a bard! Nice wordplay! 😂
@@fauxmahcloud1494 wow didnt notice the misclick hahaha
He was critical, but it is not like it was baseless. Imo he was very objective the whole time and gave praise where it was warranted and critique where it was needed. Excellent stream.
Did not seem to critical, he seeme nice. I liked the input
I think for a guest like this who is familiar with the tropes of soundtrack music you'd want music that's more bold and unique to video games rather than music that draws from the cinematic style. Something like Undertale, Doom, Cuphead, or early Final Fantasy might be more interesting to him. Perhaps he'd even enjoy some of the jazzier stuff from modern Mario Kart or even the ambient music of Minecraft. This is all with hindsight of course, I appreciate the difficulty of trying to adapt to your guest on the fly.
Yea that was tough. I got caught off guard. I had like forty tabs open
@@MarcoMeatballPlays Something unconventional huh? Maybe something from League of Legends like "Fiddlesticks Champion Theme" could catch him surprise? At least i'm sure that there's not many song use human scream. Or "Aphelios Champion Theme" with it vocal play?
@@MarcoMeatballPlays we need a rematch! :D
Yeah, I was just going to comment the same thing, he seems to enjoy unique sounds only present in video games. Like I think he would appreciate synthetic sounds more when they don't try to replicate real life instruments, but do their thing. Like how Mick Gordon made the crazy synth thing he used as an instrument in Doom or chiptune stuff, only possible on the computer. Maybe get him over for round two sometime?
@@MarcoMeatballPlays I'd have loved his reaction to the Moebius battle theme frome Xenoblade Chronicles 3. 😂
Really enjoy it. Mr Kostis is very critical with clear reasoning for his likes and dislikes in each piece without being malicious and elitist so I found that very refreshing. Pretty sure most comments here would show that people like his straightforward critical takes and tried to come up with music that can suprise him so is all good Marco. Must be pretty tough to to pivot on the spot for you though :)) Mr Kostic critics based on his long years on the job is the kind of experience that nearly impossible to come by for us music fans and video gamers so I really enjoyed this. Marco If you feel that this makes you too passive and blindsided then maybe a short survey for the guess before-hand might help: like what music they enjoy now and then, what do they look for in music now and then and which pieces or artists they think can really showcase that or fulfill that need and want? Which art direction they like etc? Your guess's and yours experience is the priority and I'm sure us mature fans wish for that too.
I appreciate this very much and I think a survey might be worth doing from now on. It wasn’t bad but I found myself scrambling simply because I expected a different experience!
@@MarcoMeatballPlays Ayy tough crowd :)) You will increase your repertoire for sure which is totally worth it. You have quality content thats for sure but different audience, different night ay.
I for one would love to see a repeat of some of the guests after they take a survey.
Kostis Protopapas is clearly a man of acquired tastes and solid views. I have great appreciation for this kind of critique. It is also a great point that people really aren't hearing stuff without electronic amplification and really should experience it more. No matter your setup, it can't compete with a proper live orchestra.
I'd like to see what music does he praise. It's wrong to assume that he's a man of taste because he's grumpy about what he hears. It may very well be that his taste is different, or simply shit. And no, live orchestra isn't always better. the variety and creativity that modern electronic and synth music can lend to a piece of music can elevate it to a new level. It's not like art and human ingenuity stopped at the start of the 20th century.
I have been to a decent number of live orchestral concerts and quality-wise, they can't hold a candle to studio recordings.
The fact that everything has to go through a mastering phase already changes the experience drastically. It's the interpretation of the person doing the mastering at that point,.
@@factdispenser5829
>I have been to a decent number of live orchestral concerts and quality-wise, they can't hold a candle to studio recordings.
It's not about 'quality'. It's about authenticity.
@@factdispenser5829 Quality-wise ? Are you talking about sound quality ? You're basically saying here that quality-wise, an Imagine Dragons live concert can't hold a candle to one of their songs being broadcasted at home on your stereo speakers. I mean... yeah ? Does that mean an Imagine Dragons fan won't want to go to one of their live concerts ? Of course not ! Hearing the voice and seeing the person perform in front of you is still the Grail. Well, as an EDM enjoyer and lyrical choir singer, i can tell you that that's true for any kind of music. Live performances are just a different kind of experience. Now, if you just dislike the sound of traditional instruments (whether it be violins or drums), which i don't have an issue with, just avoid them. But never have I ever in my life met someone who couldn't appreciate the beauty, and most importantly the skill, of a musician playing an instrument that they spent 15, 20, 30 years practicing on. That is a exceptional human prowess to witness. It seems to me that you are simply reacting to people who hate on modern music by hating on classical, as if showing appreciation for one necessarily meant degrading the other. It doesn't. There are millions of us who can see the art, entertainment and beauty in both.
I love how he defined the Halo sound as "very human" because that's such the point of it, I love that he was able to pick up on that.
I love that during his critique of Risk of Rain he just leans over to a piano or keyboard to complement his point. I really appreciate him being able to just drop knowledge in the moment like that.
I loved his perspective
He was not saying that the music was bad.
He was just saying it was "normal" "standard", not extraordinary and that he lacked the context the others probably had.
And that is okay, if he thinks of it more like workmens music than artists music then that is his perogative however, I think he just need to exposed to other examples and that is okay.
I almost think Doom and Ultrakill or even breadth of the wild would work better.
Man calling the games Breadth of the Wild (because the map is so big) and Tiers of the Kingdom (because the map now has three vertical layers) is so funny to me
I do that with many "top music", only when the music is simplistic, when it lacks variety in instruments, chords, speed and shifts in rhythm. That's why I like progressive and post rock.
29:02 As an adhd pianist who wears glasses, the fact that he held his glasses with his mouth in order to demonstrate the Chopin excerpt instead of putting them back on or tucking them into his shirt or something won me over. 😂❤
Tough crowd, but very interesting to listen to! It's nice to see someone be genuinely critical about stuff, even in front of an audience. I feel like the selection of songs could've been a bit better but I like how varied it was regardless to give him a view of multiple different songs. Definitely one of the more unique visitors so far!
I like how when Kostis starts listening, there are a lot of mannerisms he starts doing, it looks like there are a LOT of thoughts crossing his mind while he really pays attention.
I love it how you can see something lights up in Kostis mind when the glasses either go on or off 😂
Also i must say i absolutely love this series, great job as usual!
I mean right off the bat at 3:11 in the Halo theme when the violins come in with the drop, Kostis immediately starts vibing.
This guy is great lol I like how critical he is and I wanna see if we can find something that would genuinely blow his socks off or hear what he’s heard in his life that he thinks is amazing
Maybe One Winged Angel?
I really appreciate you putting chapters in this video! Ive got the attention span of a goldfish so I usually listen to the tracks that I favor before going back to the others and this makes it much easier
So, on the topic of Halo, I think it's interesting that he commented on the "down to Earth"-iness of it. The first Halo game centers around a ring world (the titular Halo). It's entirely artificial, but it _does_ have a thriving ecosystem and impressive landmarks. It's easy to forget you're on an artificial construct in space until you look up and see the other side of the ring arching overhead, or find one of the unnatural tunnel formations that serve as maintenance shafts.
With the Halo lid open, I can't recommend the soundtrack of Halo 3: ODST enough. It contributes a lot to the game's incredible atmosphere. Lots of soulful, blues-y pieces and driving rock arrangements. I think it would be a great source for slightly different tracks.
This is a very good disection of things!
I still hear the sax and the rain
Deference for Darkness is always a fuckin banger
This is amazing. I always get the feeling that the premise of these videos is based on the idea that serious people don’t take video games seriously and are positively surprised if the music is decent. The fact that he, as somebody who isn’t involved in gaming, treats the genre as fundamentally serious and reviews it as such ia much more flattering.
Sounds like this needs a round 2!
I really appreciate, that Mr. Protopapas is actually critical of the music presented to him, I think that elevates this already great format even more.
Definitely need a round two! Mr. Protopapas' commentary and criticism felt so insightful and deserve; great works should be held against even greater standards and Mr. Protopapas' absolutely has them! Awesome video!
Very fun watch, with trying to win Mr. Kostis over 😅😅
I see why in weeks past you had a survey about whether you should be posting footage if your guests are more critical of the music being shown. Coming from a family who is very critical of music overall (a memory of mine is making a regional band in high school to which my brother critiqued me for not being placed higher on my chair despite him never playing an instrument), it was very refreshing hahaha!! Please do not be discouraged from posting more of this sort of content if your guests react in this way.
The Halo theme being down to earth is quite appropriate imo, since that's the music of humanity fighting for its survival against the alien forces of the Covevant.
On a fun note, when they remade the entire soundtrack for Halo CE Anniversary, they too spoke about the Irish flare of this melody.
Also most of the first game is on an alien ring world which has artificial gravity, so that also is a point for why it's bound to earth. Part of the main theme is being played at the start of Silent Cartographer which is an island of the ring.
"Things don't go particularly well" has to be the understatement of the year in this context^^
I really loved the conversations on live vs. synthetic music, as that is a big part of why a lot of this music does not work for me out of context. If I am already familiar with the piece, I know what it is evoking. Outside of that context, the music has to work harder to reach me, and the predictability of synthetic instruments lessens the blow (even if the composition can surprise). Whereas pieces like Civilizations or I am the Sea from Final Fantasy XIV work for me entirely because I can connect them with places and characters and know what the music represents. I don't doubt that I could identify the context simply from listening to some pieces (I am the Sea is achingly obvious in its seaside atmosphere), but I'm inferring instead of experiencing it firsthand.
Judging from the comments I was expecting him to really dislike these tracks, so I was surprised to see he was just mildly unenthusiastic lol. This was a treat.
Great Video! As others have said, very much the most critical guest to come forth until now, which was refreshing. Also his demeanor reminds me of many teachers I had at uni, that jolly wise jokester vibe is unmatched.
That’s for sure him
I'm actually glad he was critical of them and was willing to talk about it, we don't get that alot and though most people prefer to hear their favorites praised I'm glad he could be honest. It does make me hope we can find him something that can impress him.
Halo since the first game has always focused on the more military/soldier aspect. The games primarily focus on a super beefed up foot solder. I enjoyed hearing the explanation of the halo theme, because funnily enough, when I think of halo, I don't think of star wars, destiny, or some kind of space exploration game. The game is mostly a first person shooter, and even the vehicles, while futuristic, are nearly always to dominate the opposing grounded troops.
I actually completely disagree with this. To me Halo is defined by it's worldbuilding with different political alien and otherworldly alien superstructures. But Halo 2 is my favorite game in the series, where the focus is much more on the Covenant's politics and society, so that makes sense.
@MajoraZ yeah, now that you mention it Halo can mean a lot of things. Halo 1 really focused on the Marine aspect. Then, it turned into a zombie horror game. Halo 2 then focuses on the politics of your enemy, and your own relationship with them. Cool stuff.
Imagine caring about literally the single most overrated franchise in video game history.
@NeeoAnt just cause it's overated doesn't mean somebody can't like it. I've personally stopped liking the core of the series after Halo Reach but I don't dis on people who do like it. I would actually agree though, the halo main theme is a bit over rated
the way he plays the piano with that mirth in his eyes while holding his glasses in his mouth tho. that's so fun. just a little bit of joy-sharing to be had here.
as usual it's great to hear how music professionals think about video game music, because there's always bits of technicality involved and it's always fun to learn something new. learning about chopin from a video about game music sure isn't what i think i would do but here we are, and i'm happy for it. i may know very little about music but i sure do like knowing things other people don't know.
He liked Tartaglia’s boss themes, LET’S GO!
Many of the pieces are a bit stereotypical "epic music".. so I'm with Kostis =) As someone who also dislikes the synth string sounds I wonder if he'd still like something that's entirely synthetic that doesn't try to imitate any real instruments (EDIT: well he kinda answered that in the end). Anyway, great video as always :)
For someone as critical as he, I would be very curious to hear his thoughts on various experimental soundtracks like those in Ultrakill and FFXIV
I imagine he would be much more critical with them, especially ultrakill. Lol
I don’t think you’d need to put forward the more experimental tracks?
Answers
Heavensward
Dragonsong
Tomorrow and Tomorrow
Flow
Black Steel, Cold Embers
Unbending Steel
Endcaller
Pilgrimage
Maybe a bunch of the more unexpected tracks could be thrown in at the end to show the sheer variety with stuff like
Close in the Distance
Fiend
Dedicated to Moonlight
In the Balance
Twice Stricken
Etc
I agree but I think FFXIV you need to put gameplay. There were PSAs warning the community on RUclips and Reddit (I think) to put gameplay of FFxiv or it will get copyright-striked.
Why? He didn't offer much in the way of what was wrong with the tracks and what would make them better.
Honestly I really liked this one. I'm often skeptical of these types of videos (classical musician/singer/vocal coach listens to a new genre for the first time), as there often seems to be an incentive to only say positive things, so it's great to see someone who actually challenges our musical tastes. Also really enjoyed Kostis' insights, really thoughtful responses, and never came across as dismissive or snobby, even when he obviously was not too impressed with some of the tracks. I realize that it might not have been the experience you expected or hoped for, but it was really interesting to listen to. Would love to see him return for a second round if you're both willing.
If you can get Mr. Protopapas on again some time, I think you definitely deserve a round two with him. With hindsight and not having to scramble to try and find something he might REALLY like, I think you could definitely pick out some great and less by-the-numbers game tracks to get his critique of.
I have never been wanted to go a live concert than now. What he said is 100% true, The no. of times I've listened to music without a device is so low and it's true for most people. Thank Kostis Protopapas for being here
Baba Yetu was the first game soundtrack that made me sit up and listen. It was so far beyond anything else at the time and even today it's one of my favourite pieces of music.
Im hearing it here for the first time. That shit slaps! Im loving it.
@@RoxxSermIt was later included into album Calling all Dawns which had all kinds of songs, from polish hymn to Japanese haiku and all brilliant. Btw Baba Yetu is essentially Lords prayer in swahili.
I FORGOT THAT BABA YETU WAS FROM A GAME!!! my choir class in high school sang it TWICE and it seemed to be one of everyone's favorites 🤣 it was one of the few songs continuously sang when class was over and we were packing up
He has such an intense and passionate listening. He’s critical in the way that you want to impress him. He doesn’t give anything less than his true feelings. But he’s extremely humble and there’s no sense of elitism, just fact and his honest preference. It’s awesome to see someone like this exposed to new music and really listening to it as deeply and loving as they possibly can. Such a great time
This man is hard to please, and that's great. I really enjoyed listening to his criticisms and insights. We need more people like him in order to make game music all it can be.
Idk if these people you interview are listening with their pc's studio audio or not. But if so, you should REALLY recommend them to get headphones! They change EVERYTHING when it comes to hearing sound.
Thanks you just reminded me..done!
I really enjoyed the critique of this guy, he didn't sugar-coat it
If anyone is wondering, Halo's theme has monks and ancient, or tribal aspects, because the story involves ancient alien artifacts from when humans were hunters and gatherers, and earlier.
The composer, Marty O'Donnell specifically mentioned using monk style chants to reference that aspect of the lore. So it's cool they picked up on that immediatedly.
I agree with pretty much all he said, but there's this "elitism"(in lack of a better word) with live performances that I don't fully agree with.
I do think being there and hearing the music first hand it's a beautiful experience, but i also think hearing well mixed music it's as beautiful (well mixed being the important part here) and some times it allows composers to strive for more wild and creative sounds wich in my experience it's the music i tend to enjoy the most.
Anyways great video as always, loved the more critical way of viewing the music and excited for the next edition.
Well I think he said for operas and orchestras he prefers to hear the “live recording” of performances over the “studio recording”. Meaning he listens at home or at work live recordings as a personal preference.
Not to pay money and be present in front of or orchestra or opera to fully appreciate the music. So I would say it’s not elitism just different taste of music recording or sound mixing .
I think I sort of get his perspective; there's something of a "I've listened to too much" in video game music too. While I would never find good music bad because of it, I sometimes just tune out of new music because it feels very familiar; that's why weird (e.g. buying goods at palmira) and fresh (jolts in the forest) make for such memorable songs for me.
Naturally, the setting of how one listens to it matters too; and I get the live experience being different, too. The idea that there's basically no equalization in a live performance is an interesting point, that's definitely true.
I actually think this one turned out really well! I absolutely understand what he means when something is "basic" and like a lot of classic pieces that are currently available. That's the equivalent of us hearing typical pop songs and sighing because they all sound similar and there's nothing "unique" that stands out to us. To him, particularly for Bloodbourne, there was nothing memorable or noteworthy which I appreciate.
Certain pieces of game music feel very different when experienced in the moment they're designed for e.g. Final Fantasy XIV's "Answers" when you face Bahamut. His entire battle is synchronised to that song and when certain moves hit, the lyrics hit different. Without that context some video game music may lose its impact and since he lacks exposure to that context, I can appreciate the "It's mediocre" or "there's nothing special" in that respect.
I also understand the view of live vs synth versions of instruments, I've seen Halo/Civ VIs/FF/Zelda pieces etc performed by live orchestras and they really do sound phenomenal against their video game version. I still love the video game versions, but there's something magical about hearing the live instruments as well as watching the musicians (and the singers) as they feel each note too.
There's a place for both types of music and it'd be cool to provide some of those real orchestral pieces e.g. Distant Worlds or Video Game Orchestra versions so that you can introduce them to the 'real' version too! (Appreciate that may not be possible with copyright claims but things like Dancing Mad have real organs in those performances which they may prefer to hear.)
It was a real challenge this particular episode but I appreciate how genuine and honest kostis was. I’m doing my best to provide them with interesting stuff and he was the first to sort of push back.
Hey, I discovered your chanel a few days ago, and i'm watching all those "classical musician discover video game's music", they are amazing.
I higly suggest the music from League of Legend, Lulu and Shaco. It got an AMAZING violin "concerto" part that is incredible, and really feel like the guy who wrote it understand the instrument.
And for personal discovery, there is a good documentary "Frequencies - The Music of League of Legends" which allow to understand that world of video game music compostion.
Keep the good work, you are amazing.
I think the best recent example of space music was Interstellar. The inclusion of the organ moved it just outside of the orchestral “comfort zone” while adding an almost reverent and religious tone.
"there experience more complete" he is critical. but he understands. for real. bring him again!
he is not critical just for the sake of it. i would love to hear what he listen to
Tartaglia theme hitting hard as always
My 3 years old nephew loves Baba Yetu. He plays it all day up and down on his little tune box.
Can't wait to show him Civ
AHA First one here!
It's always lovely to see you do these things, it opens the minds of others who have either have never heard of these master pieces or closed off their journey to the world of videogame music...
Thank you for doing these videos, they always make me excited and happy when I see them come up in my recommended sections!
Much love from Cephalon!
💖💖💖💖💖💖
I'd love to see more of these videos continue on and open others' minds up to a larger variety of master pieces!
second, actually. but i agree with you that these videos are really fun to watch, can't wait for more.
its always so interesting to see how people and especially professionals react to video game music
and it always blows them away lol
Not as much in this case, but I see he did like some
he is perhaps the most not-blown-away guest so far 😄
It's worth noting that the scores that are recorded live are usually not rehearsed or rehearsed for mere hours before it's recorded. Hence it's very unlikely to ever see anything, even if it's live recorded, approach a piece put on by an actual symphony orchestra as anything played during a public performance is far better prepared.
Always happy to see the Zero OST. He said it was good, Woohoo. Maybe a live version would've been better
I love these! They have quickly become some of my favorite content on youtube (and my only request besides more of these, is that the next bloodborne song you use is Lady Maria's song!) Thank you for showing video game music to others and introducing us to these great minds in the world of music!
Also, finishing the rest of the video Kostis Protopapas sir, REALLY KNOWS HIS STUFF, HIS EXPERIENCE AND CRITIQUE SHOW AND IM ALL HERE FOR IT!
When I talk to fans, i like to hear what they enjoy, since its pure and immediate. When i listen to connoisseurs, we both know what we already like, so their direction and critique is way more interesting involving their expertise. Like how a chef would prepare a dish in a different way to make the flavor different.
Gacha technically isn't gamble, because pity system exist.
Yeah, that's the only way it could go pass the legal hurdles. Yeah, it was a big case once, in Japan, back when "digital pachinko" aka gacha was still in its early infancy.
I do think with some context of how this music is fitting the visuals on screen, he would be a bit more impressed. As I dont think it's just about putting it on the same standards as a classical song and then calling it effectively "mid" because it does nothing new. It is doing something new because it is held to the constraints of the story the game is telling on screen.
I'm no expert on classical music, but I did almost listen to it exclusively for a good portion of my life, and I can 100% without a doubt say that video game music has been more impactful to me from an emotional perspective. The very fact that he says he enjoys the music of the ONE game he owns, I feel like he should be a bit more sympathetic as to the impact these songs can have on the gamer.
It’s hard to find clips etc. I agree that the context and visuals it would probably shift things a bit
@@MarcoMeatballPlayswith Baba Yetu, the visuals are pretty spectacular and fitting. It's the intro cinematic, after all!
@@MarcoMeatballPlays Yeah I agree. Although I think a lot of his issues were with these not being live performances with actual instruments.
I am enjoying these videos immensely. There are so many references to things i've both grown up with and learned to love as an adult.
Thank you so much.
"new alexandria" by martin o'donnel is a very powerful piece, but maybe less so if you have not played halo reach. To me, it evokes a sense of hopelessness and i feel melancholic listening to it.
What I got from this video and his love for Angry Birds, I really do feel like Kostis would have a special appreciation for the Fall Guys main theme hahaah, its a quirky banger.
But also, yeah, I think generally a bit more of a diverse library of music from videogames. I think something from Danganronpa or Undertale for example would tickle his fancy.
You should look into some Kingdom Hearts music. Yoko Shimomura is one great composer, you will love her stuff. Hard to choose where to start, possibly Master of Masters theme, or Vector to the Heavens. Or any other one is just as good!
1:00:26 YES! I was practically screaming "Morricone! That's SO Morricone!" at the screen when I heard that one :D.
It would be interesting to get someone like Geebz on here who is a composer now already kind of familiar with video game music and has now begun his own journey into the world of playing video games and maybe showing him some more out there stuff he hasn't heard before or simply having a conversation about some pieces. There's definitely a completely different atmosphere that playing a game brings to some of these tracks, it's like club music, I would never listen to that kind of music normally but when in a club it's some of the greatest music I've ever heard. There's plenty of game music that I don't really care about, but in the moment while playing the game, it opens up a whole new experience
It Rained With Powerful Slowness... This song truly makes my hair stand on end every time I hear it. Great video as always Marco!
this my second video. i just watched the opera pianist video. it was great but
dude... seriously if possible i wanna see this guy again. he is honest with his opinion. and funny.
i hope u see the comment and hope he comes again. since u said u like to meet ppl from around the world.
hello from saudi arabia
I am loving the format. This us great stuff.
A word to help with the craft of an interview, this is basically Larry King's advice: Try to keep questions and follow ups brief! If you want to provoke more talking, you can even just repeat the most interesting phrase of something they just said.
your love for the work of Chris on the RoR soundtracks is very relatable
16:35 - "things don't go especially well" - that's a bloody understatement in case of Bloodborne 😆
>Star Halo Main Theme
>Dog: "GIVE ME THE NEEDLER! I HAVE A SPLITLIP TO BLAST TO PIECES!"
Sir just exudes experience and has some insane standards. We all love this music but everything can fit into a spectrum. This is a nice perspective because it really ephasises that truly great music cannot exist in a void. And even though i felt appalled to hear the bloodborne track be called "mid" (lol) it shows how important is for good music to be experienced rather than just heard, either in a game as a player or as a listener to the vibrant strings in a concert. A true learning experience in this video Marco and thank you Kostis!
By insane standards you mean mostly objective ones. It magically becoming the greatest thing ever just because you "experienced" it is also quite a stretch.
I love VGM and I do find Bloodborne OST not that great.
I find that the majority of our love for something comes from linking it with a personal experience, whether that be a moment we experienced, a feeling, or feelings that we've felt, or some scene that we've witnessed. These tend to be the most impactful impressions as they trigger what we felt at the time and that, in combination with the music, it is almost always more impactful than what we felt with the event/feeling alone. It also tends to be why we have such different views when experiencing the same thing. We all have different experiences and things to link them to.
@@belaf1329 bro just casually throws out “experience” as if it doesn’t have a huge impact on your perception. The hill I will die on is that most songs from musicals, plays and even operas can be pretty mid without the visuals from the actors and stage. Art that is designed to be apart of something greater is not to be judged solely based on how it is in vacuum.
That specific song was rather boring and safe. Nice and epic in the moment of playing when you are immersed but not really playlist material outside of it, without any attachment to the game itself.
Genshins ost never fails to impress anyone.. Kostis really opened up with Tartaliglias theme..
interesting discussion for sure, wish he had even more time i really like the longer discussions you have had in this series
It's so interesting to get these different points of view on something that has just always been around for me. thanks!! this is super cool to hear and see.
When Kostis glasses come off, you know he has entered his second stage! 😅
Damn yeah this guy's got a good ear, the Halo theme is inspired by Irish folk music. One of the directors Martin O'Donell is Irish and drew on some of that for inspo
I know he's probably a very occupied person, but I would love to see him reacting to more musics in the future if possible, hearing the opinions of someone who deeply knows what he's talking about and learning more about these songs is amazing ❤
seeing his reactions to some musics like
Tenebre Rosso Sangue
Empty Tones
Fleeting Words
etc.
Glad to see Halo here, but I gotta say I think the main Halo theme often overshadows all the other amazing Halo music that's out there (Also, I think the MJOLNIR mix version of the main theme from Halo 2 is better!): There's a lot of other tracks across the franchise of a similar caliber, and often in very different styles and genres. My personal favorite track is the opening "Rain" portion of "Deference for Darkness" in Halo ODST, which is an extremely moody noire influenced piece with some jazzy elements sprinkled in, like a breathtaking slow sax solo. Perfectly encapsulates the melancholy that is roaming an abandoned city at night as your way is only lit up by glowing futuristic neon signs and burning wreckage.
I actually originally commented a full list of 25 other Halo tracks I think are as good as the main theme and what I like about them, but the comment was getting automatically withheld from public view, sadly. I will say some other favorites are "In Amber Clad", "Under the Cover of Night", and "Heavy Price Paid". My bias for sadder, more emotional pieces (In Amber Clad aside) and Halo 2 is showing, but alas I can't post the full list with more game and stylistic variety.
Also, on the full VoD version, I saw somebody else comment that "Halo since the first game has always focused on the more military/soldier aspect. The games primarily focus on a super beefed up foot solder. I enjoyed hearing the explanation of the halo theme, because funnily enough, when I think of halo, I don't think of star wars, destiny, or some kind of space exploration game", and I have to say I personally disagree. To me, Halo is defined by it's devotion to otherworldly alien superstructures often contrasted against naturalistic environments; and it's worldbuilding and setting with different humand and alien factions and civilizations and their political and ideological struggles, very much in line with those other sci-fi franchises. Mind you, that makes sense, since Halo 2 is my favorite game in the series and it's very much focused on the internal political and religious structure of the alien Covenant forces, and the emotional/character arc of a specific alien within it and his ideological journey and struggles.
The Halo theme came out in 2001, it's over 20 years old lol.
That offends me because now I remember exactly how old I am 😢
@@Sarina_DearSame here.
I enjoyed this vid. There's absolutely nothing wrong with honest crticism. Kostis clearly recognised the quality and competence of the production of most of it even if he wasnt blown away in terms of the themes or perhaps innovation and originality.
He isnt a gamer so he doesnt have the same link to the music that a person who has played the game can achieve.
The Fromsoft one about the vicar is well produced. It thematically fits the game and if I was playing the game i would probably find it much more engaging (i played it so long ago i cant remember if ive heard it before). Here it just didnt hook me as a piece of music at this listening though and maybe even felt a tad generic. That doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it or that it wouldnt hook me if i sat down and had to do the fight.
It was an interesting experience to have a more critic view on the songs, in this case maybe orchestral or live versions could have been a better match
I would've loved to hear his thoughts on Godrick's ost. For someone who listens to classical music casually, that track sounds absurd(and hella cool) to me, so it'd be interesting to know what a professional thinks!
This guy is amazing. I don't know if you can manage to bring him back with hopes of really impressing him. But I love him. Regardless, based on the comments, it seemed like a nice learning experience for you.
I totally agree with what the guest said at the end, that there's no doubt that the context of the music can completely change the experience. For example, in regards to the piece from Bloodborne. From a musical perspective, he's correct in saying that the music is somewhat simplistic, and that it's forumulaic and something he's heard a lot of (which to me sounded more like a series of observations about the piece than critiqeus). But all of those things are intentional decisions by the composer to compliment the boss fight itself. For example, that piece very specifically evokes a very religious sound and feeling through "formula" that we have been conditioned to recognize over hundred of years (the use of choir, the organ, etc) in order to help give context to the fight itself, which is against the first vicar of the Healing Church. And the simplicity of the piece a) helps make the fight unique as it is not a very intense or fast paced piece that by default tends to accompany boss fights (similar to why the elden beast fight stands out in terms of music), and b) imo is composed in a simple manner due to the nature of the opponent, a Cleric Beast, who has loud high pitched screams that would either be lost in the midst of a complex music piece or would detract from the piece by nature of being distracting. In addition, there's the added fact that the piece itself is building upon/referencing a piece from much earlier in the same game, the Cleric Beast theme, which is context you don't get from just listening to the piece on it's own. Which is why it's interesting to have someone react to the piece without that context, as a lot of the contributing factors that help make that song impactful despite it's simplicity and familiarity aren't something that influences them. And for some pieces that might make them less impactful, whereas other pieces rely less on the context of the experience to drive their impact and might seem more "impressive" or "interesting" to a person who listens to a lot of classical music.
Kostis reminds me of many of my Greek relatives with his mannerisms 😄
It's nice ofc to hear praise for OSTs but I think it's also very important to have people who are more critical of the pieces. It's nice that he didn't really seem to hold music in any higher or lower esteem because of where it came from, but that his concerns were more about connecting to the heart of the music itself, apart from the narrative it accompanies.
It might be an idea to start throwing in some recordings of live orchestra performances? Like I know FFXIV does them but I'm not sure about other video games.
Though I do wish there had been more comment on Tartaglia's theme(s) because the two phases played back to back are quite long and there are a lot of different sounds to it. I love it's accordion (?) parts and the almost aggressive "whalesong" in the second phase.
Oh my god starting with the halo theme just brought tears to my eyes.. Fucking damn that arrangement is just top notch.
Great discussion, this guest had very interesting insight ! His expertise was enjoyable and I was intrigued some of his feedback. All in all, a good video yet again.
On another note, there's a type of music I don't remember hearing yet in this series and it's rhythm game musics. I find this genre quite interesting and some artists that worked on such games stand out to me as able to merge orchestral and electronic in a very pleasant symbiosis. I often wondered what would people from the classical field think of songs from Cytus, Deemo or other rhythm games.
What's interesting about the comment on Halo is that the first installment feels very anthropocentric and as the games come out you learn that humanity kinda /is/ central to the game's trajectory, but also that there are so many more alien races that make up the backdrop and provide context for humanity's position and importance.
I still remember my first time hearing Bab Yetu when I was a kid, my eyes actually started tearing up
His comment of the down-to-earthness and "irishness" of the Halo theme reminded me of Firefly, with its country and folk motiffs in space.
You should react to transformations of Final Fantasy music - from 8 bit, to Distant Worlds (full arrangements), to the official Piano Collection arrangements. Fascinating to see the themes evolve
Very fun to watch.
Props for Never-Ending Performance!
I appreciated the previous videos where you included more variation in sound and time line (I mean chip tone and restricted non orchestral stuff.). While I do think it is great to get opinion on as he puts it perfectly "popular classical" classical isn't the only thing game music has on offer.
But enough of me sitting on my butt telling you how to do your work. I appreciate you in general. You provide a good diversion for when I want to listen to music and be a bit more thoughtful.
All I can say is Marco, PLAY HALO! 1, 2, and 3, anything else isn't necessary but you gotta play it at some point. Truly, you won't regret it.
As others have said I definitely got the impression Mr. Protopapas was expecting to hear something he hadn't heard before when venturing into what I suspect was (to him) a new medium. And I could feel you trying at the halfway point to find something that might grab him!
It might be slightly at odds with your goal of showing industry professionals that video games are capable of producing music as grand and wonderful as what we expect from the classical and orchestral spheres, but for a guest like this I don't think it would be a bad idea to show off some of the broad variety of music that exists in video games.
Games like Cuphead, Nier Automata, Mekazoo, Metal Hellsinger, and Silent Hill all have vastly different styles and genres so it might mess with the bread n' butter of "epic" music, but it might be something worth thinking about at least! I've also wondered how some of the guests would respond to "classical" video game themes being performed by symphonic orchestras like what they've done with Super Mario and Zelda music, but showing clips from those concerts might be a copyright nightmare even on the VOD channel.
At any rate I think we'd all like you to get Protopapas back on to try and find something that can hook him in!
His impression of halo sounding Irish is hilarious. Sounds Irish but I'm Greek so what do I know haha like the reverse of saying its all Greek to me!
Marco, you should look into the work of Kota Hoshino, he's a composer and sound designer who works at Fromsoft and scored some of their earlier games, as well as being the principal composer for the Armored Core series. He's entirely self taught after basically falling into the composition role early in his career and as such writes music that is entirely outside convention. Its experimental, harsh and vibrant in a way I think guests like Kostis might respond more positively too, because its music coming from a space (mid budget games) that can allow for people like Hoshino to buck the more traditional styling that's somewhat required for mass appeal. He has incredible knack for building these really catchy rhythms out of parts that individually are super discordant and maybe even unpleasant. Like a functioning bridge made out of drift wood. In particular I really love the Evergrace 1 & 2 scores he did. (See: "Buying Goods At Palmira" and "Shop")
Along similar lines, the soundtrack to Drakengard 1 (primarily composed by Nobuyoshi Sano) takes existing classical scores and chops & screws them into sometimes violent, sometimes disorienting tracks that end up providing an extremely intense atmosphere for the game (which is centered around showing the violence and horrors of war in a dark fantasy setting). I'm sure you're familiar with Keiichi Okabe who did the later Drakengard and Nier games, whose music is incredible in its own right, but the Sano stuff is just wild. (See "Chapter VII - In The Skies" and "Weapon Selection" [lol])
Loving this series, have a good one!
There's another way of sometimes getting unamplified performances outside of the opera - fingerstyle guitar. At tiny venues, they might not use amps.
Got to see Don Ross and Andy McKee in a room with maybe 40 other people - was amazing!
When he mentioned Angry's birds OST seems like getting him reacting to some chiptune tracks would be kind of up his alley, it seems like he got interested in some chiptune stuff.
Games like One shot (The one where you travel to replace the sun) and other similar stuff like the bullet hell ones I forgot the name of that one but it had Japanese characters in it (ah I remembered Tohou), would be more what he was looking for.
Though seems like it will be hard finding music in video games for people that prefer live performance and classic instruments because classic instruments are not cheap and getting accoustic's and all of that prepared to record is really expensive which only AAA studios are able to pay for.
Also Oxenfree is interesting game I have found, more choice based but still good and has pretty good soundtrack imo, I wonder what will be your opinions on that Marco.
The game isn't popular though.
Wow. Halo and Civ IV. Brilliant.
Edit: 48:11 Babs Yetu...and I almost got tears. It's so nostalgic!
I thought watching this back to back from the Kathy episode 2 was very interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed both of their takes. Also thought you did well on your substitute entries for what he seemed to be addressing. Good stuff.