Why no one wants to paint carbon fiber
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Learn how to make your own high-quality carbon fiber parts: darkaero.com/c...
Many questions have been asked about whether the DarkAero 1 prototype would be painted or if the raw carbon fiber look would remain. We chose to paint the prototype for several reasons. Find out why in this video!
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Paint Equipment Used:
GORILLASPRO Inflatable Paint Booth 26x15x10Ft: amzn.to/3VntnfD
DeVilbiss HVLP Spray Gun, Gravity amzn.to/3Vq5m7W
DeVilbiss DeKups Demo Kit amzn.to/3Ovs2S1
DeVilbiss DeKups Disposable Cup and Lid, White (24 oz) amzn.to/3Ovs2S1
DeVilbiss DeKups Disk Filter - 24/34 oz. Capacity amzn.to/3OB2EtX
DeVilbiss DC101 Paint Prep Wipe, (Box of 300) amzn.to/3EZLvqQ
DeVilbiss Digital Gauge with Air Adjusting Valve amzn.to/3OAr46X
DeVilbiss DAD500 3-Stage Desiccant Dryer Unit amzn.to/3EA1af0
Quincy QT-54 Splash Lubricated Reciprocating Air Compressor: amzn.to/3EuLLfU
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My inner child says if you add racing stripes and flame decals, it will absolutely go at least 1% faster
You are giving away all our engineering secrets! XD
Red definitely helps
Experiments prove more like 2-3%
Add Skulls & Crossbones to get at least 3% 🏴☠️
I understand a shark mouth usually gets you 1-2% higher speeds
Place the fuselage in a rotisserie, which will allow you to rotate the fuselage 360 degrees. Then you wouldn't be cramping your body when trying to paint various areas of the fuselage. A rotisserie is also used to hold a welded tube fuselage to be able to apply the fabric covering. Keep up the good work ! 🙂
Kinda tough with that long horizontal stabilizer in place.
@@lamberto6405 Not really. The height of the rotisserie is very adjustable, on pre-made units. This would need to be a custom built rotisserie to accomplish a full rotation - but - it can be done.
We considered something like this initially, but decided that for the minimal amount of time we’ll be spending to paint the fuselage it was a decent trade off to just do some painting in awkward positions compared with implementing a rotating jig. A nice side effect of having a light fuselage is that two of us can easily rotate it when we have to.
Or you can just use a pot gun instead of a gravity fed one.
I'm not a professional painter. I am a fabricator. But I need to paint everything. And when I say everything, it includes a lot of sizes and shapes. I built myself a universal Rotisserie that holds pretty much anything. Including a lead clocktower from the top of a college. If you have more projects coming, it might be a good idea. The one I built breaks down and stores easily. Also transportable and easily moved around and set up by one person.
Paint will only make it go faster if you paint it RED!
Great to see you are this far with the DarkAero. I think it is probably the best thought out light plane in history.
It is a beautiful plane. It looks fast.
WTH? DarkAero becomes white?
😉
Did you consider wrapping it? It has been done for fixed wing UAVs to give a smoother surface than paint at a lower weight.
He would have to at least prime it first to seal the carbon fiber or use a clear epoxy! But it is a good idea if the wrap will hold up to high speeds constantly!
I dont think it would have to be sealed if the finish is allready 800grit smooth ...
Paints are aerospace-proven. Wraps are not, sadly.
Will you weigh the parts before and after the paint is applied to determine how much weight is being added by the painting process?
Based on the process I'd guess about 1000 gsm. Maybe 40 kg for the whole aircraft?
@@appa609 40kg would be a pretty heavy paint-job on a plane this small. Hopefully its closer to 30-40 pounds.
(I just finished painting my kit airplane, also a small 2-seater, and the paint job was around 30-35 pounds; though I used a different primer & paint system so its not exactly apples-to-apples)
We will definitely get a weight total on the airframe after painting to check how much was added and assess our process. The total amount of primer that was mixed and prepared to paint both the wing and fuselage was ~8.5lbs. This gives us an upper limit on how much paint is currently on the airframe since we sanded a lot of this off on the wing and not all of it was applied to the airframe either because of overspray or leftovers in the cup. The true amount on the airframe is probably closer to 5-6 lbs presently, but we will come back to this topic once we have completed the priming and have done a final weight check.
@@DarkAeroInc a lot of that is the solvents that will evaporate as well! Excellent progress!
for your paint problems, the 3m pps solution is one of the most suitable.
the flexible vacuum pocket system allows the spray gun to be painted in any position. I personally painted a p300 pioneer, concerning the lower part of the fuselage the most practical remains" the mechanic's horizontal wheeled trolley".
nice project,
do you have any particular feedback on the inflatable paint booth?
The 3M PPS system is similar to what we used in the video, which was the DeKups system by Devilbiss. We like it a lot! The inflatable booth works well for our requirements where we’ll just be painting our plane and storing the tent for production. We’d recommend it for anyone that just needs a semi-temporary clean space for painting. The link to the tent we used can be found above in the description of the video.
@@DarkAeroInc Did you hold the gun upside down at the start and pull the trigger? that sucks all the air out of the paint cup and you should be able to spray on any angle including upside down.
It’s probably already been asked, but isn’t their a UV blocking clear coat that you could use? I think I’m just too in love with the carbon fiber look
Yes but they wear down over time, and rather quickly. You see it often on cars that have exposed carbon on them. The clear coat starts to flake and yellow.
have sunlight directly hit on carbon fibre is just slow burning money
Prime, no problem splitting operations. However, when painting you will need to get it all in one go or you will have some dry spot issues and will need to prep the airplane a certain way for round 2. I’m sure you know this already just wanted to make sure! Thing looks sick all white!!!
Just needs a rolling jig that allows the fuselage to be rolled 45° or so each direction. Crack out that extrusion and get bolting!
"Thing looks sick all white!!!" Of course Mr. Swing would say this! Kinda like a Velocity, huh? ;-)
Does this mean you'll be changing the name to light aero? :P
I have been building composites and the molds for them for over ten years, I worked building mid-size drones for six years. If you haven't already, you may want to consider;
First, waxing/seasoning your mold surface I can't remember if we could use the TR 104 for painted surfaces, or the Partial Paste #2 (we waxed/seasoned new molds five times, less is needed after you start pulling parts, and you will want to play around with different types of wax, my preferred was TR 104, but I did both painted and unpainted parts, as well as different mold and mandrel materials and cloths carbon, kevlar, and glass). After you pull a part from the mold, wash both the mold and the part with dawn soap and warm water.
Second, DO NOT USE the PVA. The painter and I spent a couple of days playing with different combinations of wax as well as PVA/no PVA. You do not gain anything from it beyond potential runs on the mold surface, which result in low spots in the paint which need filling, and consequently adding an uneven distribution of mass via filler to the surface as well as changing it's shape. Yes, these small variations can be taken care of with trim, but that is additional drag.
Third, just paint the waxed/waxed and PVA'd mold surface. You will want to play around with WHEN you start your layup on the painted mold surface to get a feel for your paint/resin finish and bond. When you paint the mold surface, you end up with no pinholes. When you paint the wings/fuselage/cowls/spinner cones et cetera, you DO end up with pinholes.
Fourth, when you paint the mold surfaces, you skip then entire priming process, and that saves a significant amount of mass.
Fifth, you may consider a temperature stepping post-cure, to toughen your parts. You will need a large oven with a good blower to circulate that air for your wings and fuselage, but easy enough to make with cinderblocks. I am sure you are aware that it is pretty easy to damage sharp/thin areas, and carbon is soft. That post cure helps a lot, and makes working/repairing go a little better. Talk with your resin supplier about this.
Sixth, you may want to think VERY HARD about a surface layer of 1oz glass or to provide a tougher surface than carbon. It also eliminates the issue of the cloth pattern printing through the paint.
I love seeing this thing progress, excellent work, have you guys ever tried slicksand? Basically a polyester high build primer, it's been one of the best things I've found to get my composite stuff optically flat for paint, you can build it up so easily and quickly that I never even bother with filler nowadays, not on composite stuff anyway which is already so close to right.
Thank you for checking out the video and for the product recommendation! We haven’t used slicksand but we will look it up.
There is a range of in-mold vinylester sprayable primers offered by Hawkeye Industries. I believe it's called Duratek.
Duratek sands great but isocyanate polyurethane paints dont stick to it very well. Best is to use female tooling anx pull a painted part.
@@kwittnebel Yes. We spray it in our tools and let it cure/dry then infuse the parts inside the coating. It's recommended to scuff the part and primer before paint. Many customers use epoxy primer .
Are you going to top coat it black ?
Or is it the WhiteAero now ? :D
We will top coat it eventually, but we will probably fly it in primer first. Still deciding on the final color scheme. Thanks for checking out the video!
It's going to take some getting used to the new look. Maybe Light Aero or White Aero now instead of Dark Aero?
Anyway, I love following this project. Happy Thanksgiving!
I'm from the Auto Body Painting world. Some advice would be to build a jig that has a base on the ground with wheels and then connects to the fuselage to it on the engine mount points and the tail section (viticle stabilizer area) The mounts must be on a bearing system at both ends to allow you to roll it when painting.
I thought about this too and that's what we use into manufacturing bigger vehicles, but their market is a guy like us doing that in their garage, so building a whole rotisserie fixture might be too much. I think putting the aircraft up 1-2 feet more would help in painting the bottom part and then using a ladder for the top.
@@TheBarzook There are home auto enthusiasts that use rotisseries. It seems extreme at first, but it's not unreasonable.
I remember as child (years 1970's) I was "allowed" to polish with waterproof sandpaper repair spots on gliders. They were painted with a coat of what they called "Schwabbellack" and polished afterwards . A lot of work but with perfect smooth result. The new ones produced by for example Schleicher, Glasflugel and others were 'prepainted' in the molds. the molds were first sprayed with this Schwabbellack befor the glass or carbon fibers were placed.
Nice to see the plane painted white for the reasons you mentioned (and to prevent the sun warming up the epoxy) and not showing the carbon despite how nice carbon may look.
The early composite gliders used gelcoat as their surface finish and this was applied in the molds. Gelcoat is a polyester resin with pigment. Repairs on gelcoat use flowcoat which is the same as gelcoat but with added wax solution so the surface can cure properly and can be refinished.
Unfortunately polyester gelcoats do not weather well and will craze, blister or crack over time. It is desirable in the secondhand glider market to purchase an older glider that has been refinished with a polyurethane paint, as this is much longer lasting and easier to repair.
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A rotisserie would help a lot with both fuselage and wing.
DarkAero just turned into LightAero! Marketing will be pissed! ;)
Gotta work both angles 😎
I am a 45 year ( Just retired ) PPG Automotive Paint Refinish Technician and you will have better results if you go with 2 quart pressure Pot paint spray system, many manufacturers still make them , Anest Iwatta, DeVilbiss, Binks.
Its a very easy to use spray gun , as all you have is the gun and a couple hoses in your hand , and with a pressure filled system the paint sprays in any position with no spitting or sputtering.
But the real bitch of this system is making sure you take off the FLUID HOSE and CLEAN IT VERY VERY well, this is the BANE of a pressure pot system, but works so well on big spray projects, I used mine when I had to spray complete Box Vans and Suburbans and the like .
Try this and I think you will like the ease of spraying. Cool ass airplane too by the way 👍😎
Too late now but there’s a product called xcr coating which has uv protection and a shiny clear surface it also self levels it’s used a lot in carbon manufacturing I run my own carbon company so thats how I know. If you ever make spare parts or new/updated parts maybe consider it as it would look awesome in visual carbon.
Your dual cartridge face mask will not protect you as well as a external air supplied face mask. The cartridges are limited to the ppm they can handle and become saturated as you use them. You seem to be very knowledgeable in the aircraft design and manufacturing but you might want to invest some time for the use of proper and best PPE . I am sure if you do not want to invest the $1,000 or $2,000 to purchase one you could probably modify that dual cartridge respirator with a 1/4 “ bulk head fitting with a needle valve and small diameter air line to a cheap diaphragm air pump located outside or in clean atmosphere for a $100 or $200 ! Good luck and stay safe you cannot buy your good health back .
Hey, any chance you could post a high resolution version of the picture in 0:37? I'd love to make it my new wallpaper :)
Would it be possible to set the fuselage on a jig that allowed it to rotate (bank) 90' to make it easier to do the top and bottom?
Looking great and thanks for the update!
That's what I was thinking too (also for the wing)
On a rotisserie.
you need a "rotisserie" my friend! like car pros 😉
I know that in boats, they sometimes paint the mold before adding the laminates. Not sure if that process could work for you. It might slow down production too much.
This is Gelcoat technology and its great for boats and it would also work for aircraft. But, gelcoat has long term issues as it degrades over time and is difficult to repair.
Laying up quality composite materials in smooth molds under vacuum should produce a smooth and pinhole free surface thats as easy to paint as a scale plastic model.
I believe there is a wide discrepancy in builder hours to fill, sand and paint Rutan style mold-less composite aircraft. First, RAF prototypes were often built and flown with fewer man-hours start to finish than some people claim to have spent just on sanding filler on their projects. There is a wide variance in not only skillset and productive ability, but also in mental concepts about what the task actually entails. And what level of finish can be archived with a certain process. People don't know whats involved, and the EAA is full of "expert" builders offering advice like how to sand and finish composites who also believe it takes 2,000hrs to do it right. But their claim to fame is taking 20 years to build a grand champion that deviated from the instructions in two hundred places and required re-building and fixing and fitting. And then there are absolute masters of finishing who can make a true laminar surface award winning Velocity or LongEZ and they claim they have leas than two weeks of sanding on the whole airplane to get there. True experts who are highly
Productive generally dont waste their time trying to teach people of mediocre ability who lack potential. They work fast alone. And cant convey the nuance of what they do verbally. And teaching hands on takes ten times as long to demonstrate.
@@TheJustinJ the vast majority of boats use gelcoat. But sometimes for epoxy/fiberglass boats, they spray the mold with 2 component polyurethane paint before putting down the laminates. Gelcoat would be terrible for dark aero. But taking the time to have a perfect mold, and then spraying it with paint prior to placing the laminate, that could be a huge long-term time saver.
Looking very good! Waiting for flight testing! Are you going to use a pro test pilot???
Why not use gelcoat when you mold the wing skins, as they do on boats? If the gelcoat is heavier than paint, WHY is it heavier? Is there some reason the gelcoat has to be thicker than paint and primer would be?
You succeeded in removing a great deal of the Suck in painting composites in your crafting the high-precision molds.
A front line finish is still going to swallow many hours, but Dark Aero’s construction methodology will save many more hours.
It’s a big Win, overall.
DarkAero creates white plane???? Paint it matte black, like the way it was as carbon fiber!!!
I noticed while getting back in to doing some body work that there's new primer fillers on the market that seem to be the new "thing". Basically it's a lightweight primer with more filling. Not sure if there's such a product that's good for aviation, but it looks like you're not using that zinc phosphate primer, so maybe automotive primer is OK? If so, I could see it being very useful in QC during production for the first coat.
I have a question what about clear coating it? Couldn’t that’s leave the naked finish but keep the carbon epoxy protected?
We are experimenting with some clear coat options, but we haven’t tested it enough to be confident using it to protect flight critical structures.
Keep it up guys.
I mailed you wrt working together.
Got it.
Maybe a custom rotisserie would speed up and simplify the painting.
I remember listening to a radio interview with a late war spitfire pilot - flying a griffon engine with clipped wings.
He was obsessive about aerodynamic cleanness. He filed down the rivets on his plane and filled in all of the rivets an smoothed over joints. After every flight he would clean and polish his plane etc. The result was that his plane was something like 40 mph faster than other Spitfires. (I'm stretching my recollection here, I reckon this interview was in the 90s)
He shot down a few Me-262s. They just didn't appreciate that he was almost as fast as them.
Anyway, moral of the story... I can totally see where you are coming from. Obsessing about aerodynamic cleanness can have huge payoffs.
I would love to build a scaled R/C version of this.
What about galvanic issues with the conductivity of carbon fibre ? We saw recently the feud between Emirates and Airbus because of the paint cracking, owing to the electrostatic characteristics of the carbon fibres.
An option for a UV resistant clear finish would probably sell well. Carbon fiber is pretty cool.
Just like many car roofs are done. I don't see any aging in my six year old BMW carbon roof.
It seems like insurance would be the main limiting factor on this plane. Most insurance companies won't touch the Lancair....why would they insure this?
5:55 The fuselage contour looks excellent!
You should commit to painting now rather leaving it primer. It will require more sanding and priming work later.
Would a fake carbon fibre wrap or some sort be possible to put over top of the real carbon fibre?
More weight would be bad.
Ten years ago, painting was completed on the first Boeing 787 in Everett, WA and it came out looking really slick. Little did Boeing or Airbus know at the time that the paint would at some point peel off from composite surfaces. Emirates got really mad at Airbus for their peeling paint and Boeing has also had its issues with peeling paint. 🤠
Considering both decreasing the air resistance and increasing weight, what integral effect does painting have in terms of range capability?
Net neutral resultant.
Is it possible to put the fuselage at 45 degrees? to get all the surfaces accessible at ±45° maybe that way will be easier
Yeah, talk to Airbus and Saudi Air about paint. It cost them about sixty airliners.
I love following this project, the dark aero is looking more like a light arrow now! Hoping to see a cool paint scheme, keep up the good work!
And of course, the gel coat colour chosen, "white", helps to reflect the sunlight which would also contribute to keep the temperature lower inside the airplane, while on ground! The resin used on the skins, could also "suffer", just in case the gel coat was pigmented black, for instance... It could "melt" a little bit!
If you are going for laminar flow, I’m guessing you will be avoiding any spanwise stripes or color changes? Love the inflatable paint booth!
I'm fairly certain that flow becomes turbulent quite quickly at those Reynold's numbers.
@@acruzp there are laminar flow airfoils for RC airplanes with chords of just 20cm ...
@@marc_frank yes because the scale is smaller* and the* speed is lower*. Hence my use of the term Reynold's Number
edit: fixed spelling and grammar
@@acruzp and here comes the fix for the content:
Precicely because the Reynolds numbers of model airplanes are so small, combined with the fact that there are laminar flow airfoils for them, means that full scale planes must be able to have large sections of laminar flow, whose Reynolds numbers are gigantic, compared to those of model airplanes.
@@acruzp : that is very true - laminar flow is maintainable during the "positive pressure gradient" sections of a wing - it breaks down on the back end of the pressure gradients. (Often the "laminar aspects" of aerodynamics are moderately overstated. Many laminar flow wings tend to have very narrow AOA windows and rather unsafe behaviour - they rarely stall progressively)
Hi guys thanks for your effort in revealing so much of your build. Thought...to paint fuselage a 'skewer' rig and rotate as you paint. Not a lot more work considering what you have already done.
I cannot wait to someday order one of these kits. I've got a WHOLE LOT of saving up to do before then, though
Would it put too much stress on the engine mounts if you used them to mount the fuselage on a rig that would allow it to rotate on it's longitudinal axis kinda like being on a rotisserie?
"No one."
Not something I've ever heard from my auto body friends or my airplane friends or my boat friends. Pretty sure its a clickbait tile as ALL of them are willing or the majority of us have painted carbon. From cheap ass wet all the way to airplane use carbon. (which isn't any different than dry carbon for a racecar or the mast of a sailing boat.)
Bondo Brand Polyester on Epoxy. Now your talking like Stockton Rush. Not a good Representative of Carbon Fiber Composites.
Are there any paint guns available that can spray upwards? Even if the nozzle was tilted up at 45* that might be enough to reach the underside of the wing better and that corner under the horizontal stab would be a piece of cake.
The gun and cup system we used can spray while tilted upward. This is how we were able to paint the inverted surfaces. My complaint about the setup was that it isn’t ideal to crouch under the airplane to paint the underside.
Love the thought and engineering behind everything. But you can tell you haven’t had much experience painting before. For painting upside down try using a paint cup system, it’s what the auto fab world uses to paint interiors and role cages which allows you to paint at almost any angle
Thank you for checking out the video, agreed that we aren’t paint experts! 😁 We did use a paint cup system on this project. That is how we were able to paint the inverted faces like the bottom of the HS and bottom of the fuselage. Even with the paint cup system, it was still unpleasant crouching under the airplane while trying to point the gun up.
Did you go with a 1.1 nozzle tip and increase pressure to get the pattern right? The spray looked good but I would have gone thinner with more passes around the tail. You would have wanted to base coat that from the elevator tip to the rudder tip1st then came back with a horizontal top coat.
Fantastic surface finish @5:53. If that is just two coats, your molding was really great.
It amazes me how few people understand paints primary purpose is as a protective coating for the building materials. 🤦♂️...
Yes it can be pretty but that's not why we do it ffs...
Your soooooo slow, its not even production......or new I think. But good job trying I suppose. Ive develped a new type of turbine (news this week) in the time its taken you to redesign a carbon body I guess which has been done in the past like 200,000 times..
No one wants to paint carbon fiber because most people who get something in carbon are just trying to flex. Thats why most "carbon" car hoods are fiberglass with a carbon skin
Awesome project. How did your Sherwin Williams fill bond filler at the stabilizers work out after painting. Ever see any cracks yet? In marine use, we tend to apply g-flex from west system. I guess the stuff you used is much lighter.
Try putting the fuselage on a spit by mounting the firewall so that you can turn the fuselage simply by rotating the handle on the spit. Like the way you roast a whole pig.
ruclips.net/video/77sfq_E2c8s/видео.html
Perhaps use a jig that allows you to rotate fuselage during painting.
Such a waste of time to spray two coats of primer, then spray two more coats. Just lay down 3 or 4 coats. Grab a long block soft. Slap some 320 on it give it a quick once over, DA 400. Seal, base, clear.
You should look at the guys building model airplanes.
If you have the mold yourself.. paint it in the mold. So first PVA, then clearcoat, then paint, then carbon and so forth. You'll still have to do touchups on the seams, but still.
Your aguments to paint are bullcrap. THe resin does NOT degrade in UV. It colors, which you won't be able to see. Also carbo is NOT sensitive for fluids. Paint does NOTHING against abrasion.
Also, if those are the issues, you could just apply a single layer of clearcoat.
OOooo, vacuum infusion. I did some composite fab work a couple years ago on some fancy new Q/V band satellite antennae, and we used vacuum infusion for all our parts. I wasn't involved in quality control for the actual reflector surface, but I believe our tolerances were something like 50 microns, and as far as I know rework was basically never needed outside of issues caused by leaky bags, wrinkled layups, and thermal runaway. Now that i've done it that way, I don't think I'd ever use wet lay ups for anything but repairs and the quick-and-dirtiest of projects.
It is very difficult to put anything on top of a poly-ester, vinyl-ester or phenol. They are "thermo- set plastics, and produce a waxy layer once set and cured. You should always do one lay-up. Putting a gel coat on a cured surface is tricky, along with any paint. Unless you use a premium UV stablised resin, or block sunlight some how, some of your carbon fiber will turn into CO2 gas. No kidding.
I know very little about body fillers, but about thirty years ago I was repairing some damage on my Chevy van and found out that glazing compound is less durable and does not adhere as well as regular body filler. The seam that you filled with glazing compound will be subject to attack by high-velocity air, rain and possibly ice and/or particulate matter.. Time will tell. But I'm thinking you'd have been better off using regular body filler.
This video got me curious about a couple of things. I looked them up on line and it is evidently possible to powder coat carbon fiber which makes sense because carbon fiber is electrically conductive. Was powder coating a consideration among the painting options?
The second thing was lightning protection which led me to a website that said composite materials are poor conductors of electricity and they build airplane parts with an integrated conductive mesh to address this issue. What kind of lightning protection does your plane have?
Ailerons. They’re very handy for turning away from thunderstorms! 😂
They probably don't want to modify the structural integrity of the carbon as any for of electrolysis would do.
@@RobertsonDCCD yeah proly feels pretty dumb to experience death by misadventure.
I'm sure you're busy, but if you're looking to hire a student for pretty cheap, send me a message, I'm looking for employment in engineering, studying mechanical engineering, with emphasis in small business management. Would love to help with some labor, I've painted a few cars now, learning how to build my own aircraft! Thanks if you read this!
Instead of painting...
...Check Scrappy making process.
Also... Why do you want to have the surface smoothed out ?
Why don't you try to mimic a shark skin for the fuselage and try to have an air to air contact ?
No one? Well, those who don't know the reality of the matrix - they don't want to paint carbon fiber, they want to clear coat it.
Those who know will always paint it white.
Unless this thing is going mach 2 or more... 0.02 is overkill, and 0.002 is ludacris. You'll have more trouble with the angular geometry of the frame itself than the couple hundredth's of paint layers.
Nice job guys! I'm sure you know already, and just didn't mention it. One of the main reasons plastic airplanes are painted white or a light color is because of heat. The difference between black and white in the sun is huge. Heat (oil and UV light) is an enemy of anything composite. ...composites don't work harden like aluminum, they just snap. Incidentally, you should put a coat of paint on the inside of the engine cowling for oil protection. It's not structural but it will prevent delamination and make it easier for repairs later. Cheers!
Hey those inflatable paint booths are a nightmare for a job if they deflate for some reason during the process, I’d tie it to the cieling somehow
We didn’t run into that issue, but it was definitely a “what-if” scenario we were worried about. Attaching it to the ceiling is a good idea!
@@DarkAeroInc y’all are doing great, I genuinely believe in y’all’s success!
I built a temporary wood frame for it to rest on just in case.
@UC65xgG7TJQdJq6kyFaiwn7w yah I wonder if you could just reverse mount the fuselage to the engine mounts an make some sort of cart to rotate it about, the fuselage with out wings can’t weigh more than like 200lbs or something… probably lighter than the engine actually
lol I’m sure the comment section turns into good idea Central when it comes to doing anything with a project like this.
Paint it a boring champaign color. Anything too flashy and you'll keep getting busted doing over 250kts under 10k. 👮
just a thought.......for the Carbon look wouldn't a quality clear coat with uv protection... ie automotive paint, work ?
I’m a material scientist, specialising in aerospace, specifically in carbon fibre, everything he said, isn't true. we paint things to make them look pretty UV can’t pierce the first layer of carbon. You can only affect the outer skin of epoxy and that can be stabilised with fillers. The biggest reason to paint is to cover up mistakes in your carbon fibre /epoxy
As somebody who uses epoxy to build boats I can agree that Epoxy is not very UV safe. It degrades over time, getting more brittle as it goes. It also reacts poorly to high heat, the black carbon finish could weaken the epoxy through overheating. Two things you do not want when flying.
what about using colored epoxy for a covering like diamond aircraft does
You should have just applied several water based clear coat paint like on a car & put a quality 3M clear wrap that is UV proof as you can get vinyl wraps for cars, trucks, boats, venues, pretty much everything. If you can offer that finish to some customers I bet you will sell more of that style as more ppl would prefer the carbon look type of finish.
I noticed that you didn't mention *heat buildup* from *sunlight* as a problem for carbon fiber parts.
Back in the days of glass-fiber-on-polyurethan-foam, that was a reason to paint parts white.
Is heat not a problem for a carbon fiber composite?
The fusalage must be fairly light, under 300lbs? Insert male holding member into the front end attached to a rotational wheel. This rotissarie should solve all your spray angle propblems. Or you could hire Chip Foose as a consultant.
STIR the paint, never shake 2 part epoxies or polyurethanes!
You didn't show a Primer Coat being applied before the final paint. W/O a Primer Coat & sanding & prepping that Primer Coat for the Final Painting you have not done a Proper Painting of your plane. Did you just not choose to show this step?
happy I found this, I love experimental Aircraft, inspiring me to build my own from carbon fiber.
B17s were painted [70ishlbs extra weight] they did a paint, unpaint test to evaluate the weight saving and found that fuel consumption went up by 3% on unpainted airframes, the extra fuel to recoup the 100mile range loss was heavier than the paint.
Imperfections is a better word. Good job guys.
Why name it the "DARK AERO" if you're gonna paint it WHITE????
Couldn't you also just paint it with 2k clear coat so that it is protected from uv, and you can still see the carbon?
Now, just hear me out…now that you’ve got a good primer base…Pepto Bismol pink would be a unique and eye catching option.
Painting in two separate operations won't go as well as you think.
Over spray from the second op will land on the dry surface of the first op without wetting and, because both ops are identical in color, you wont be able to tell until it's all dry. At that point you'll find a "dusty" area near the boundary of the two ops, sand it all down and respray in one shot. Ask me how I know ... 🙄
Raise the bird up a few inches and keep the pot full for working underneath.
When you say basically went to straight to paint is basically the three primer coats?
Also,for next time it's worth remembering that we're all watching on screens so it's not very hyperbolic to tell us we can feel how smooth it is through the camera. That's grade A production value. Your welcome.
My friend made a straw bale house, a building where walls are straw bales coated with a plaster concrete. For marketing to show the interior of walls were actually made of compressed straw he put a small window in the plaster of one wall in a high traffic area. Can you leave a small area unpainted or coated with clear UV coating to show your plane is made of CF? I know this is just window dressing so to speak but it could change perception of the vehicle even slightly.
You go with paint for anything composite that is exposed to extended periods of UV. You get UV-resistand epoxy, but it's still gonna degrade over time.
The fuselage surface quality is not really aerodynamically relevant. Nor is the Wing root or tailplanes. Anything in the prop wash is going to be fully turbulated.
Carbon fiber is light, I wouldn't paint it. Maybe a transparent layer of UV protection, but I love the look.
The 3M PPS H/O system, provides a pressurised paint supply and is excellent for painting out of position.
So that's why no one wants to paint carbon fiber. Ummm, thanks for the clickbait.