The Economy of Westeros
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- Опубликовано: 30 окт 2019
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This is Westeros: the fictional nation that is home to a majority of the story of Game of Thrones, an ongoing book series, and wildly popular TV show.
For the sake of this video, we'll attempt to put to the side that Westeros is very obviously middle ages England and Essos (the other land featured prominently in the story) is based on Europe and Mediterranean nations around the turn of the renascence.
This was obviously an inspiration for George RR Martin, but the writer has gone beyond that and interlaced curiosities from many historic economies into a world that adds a layer of complexity and realism that isn’t present in typical fantasy stories of the genre.
So, let's explore how they work together and add to the narrative that drives The Game of Thrones.
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#Westeros #GameOfThrones #Economics
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Sources & Citations -
Larrington, C., 2017. Winter is coming: The medieval world of Game of Thrones. Bloomsbury Publishing.
Kar, D., Fang, F., Delle Fave, F., Sintov, N., and Tambe, M., 2015, May. A game of thrones: when human behavior models compete in repeated stackelberg security games. In Proceedings of the 2015 International Conference on Autonomous Agents and Multiagent Systems (pp. 1381-1390). International Foundation for Autonomous Agents and Multiagent Systems.
Postan, M.M., 1973. The medieval economy and society: an economic history of Britain. Univ of California Press.
Greif, A., 2006. Institutions and the path to the modern economy: Lessons from medieval trade. Cambridge University Press.
Music - Game of Thrones Theme (Piano Cover)
Music Link - • Game of Thrones - Main...
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While Cercei invested poorly in thousands of ballistas, Daenerys invested in some plot armour.
Wait but she got stabbed to death, how so does she have plot armour?
@@r.p.4756 Her plot armour stopped working after she burned down kings landing
her investment fell through at the last moment
Cersei invested in plot Armor as well in Season 7. We still don't know how did she manage to win against The Tyrells. The whole excuse was something like: Fighting was never our forte, xD.
@@G_Kchrst While wasting like 2 seasons of explaining why the Tyrells are so damn important as an ally to the Lannisters.
Daenerys starts burning down Kings Landing.
EE: No! What are you doing?!? The people are the primary drivers to the economy!
Yep my thoughts exactly, you are incinerating your consumer base!!
@@EconomicsExplained and workforce.
@@EconomicsExplained 4-Year Plan for Targaryen Autarky confirmed
The star wars Thrawn book has a good version of this (vage to exclude spoilers) after the destruction of a city where hundreds of thousands of people died Trawn goes into a tyraid about how he ordered them not to kill the population. The person replies with a "the empire have plenty of people" and thrawn just says "I do not waste imperial assets for no reason"
Violent2aShadow it’s a tragedy
No one:
Economics Explained: But what about the tables????
They're made from mahogany
Will someone please think about the tables?!
Having always been that guy who did. I found I could generally both write and deal with TTRPG issues through such thinking to great advantage. But what everything, such as a table, that shows up in a show, game, or any other story says is that somewhere that object also has a story. Someone made that dodad, someone made the tools needed to do so, there is a space that was used, resources were collected, transport was likely used, and many of those things would have been done by different people. And all those people would need to be fed, clothed, sheltered, and protected. It is the same as in real life realizing that the existence of your shoe implies that somewhere there exists a person who has to drive a truck of adhesive from the adhesive chemical plant to the shoe factory and is reliant on a repair guy, a tyre maker, rice farmers (odds on at least), and a petrol plant himself. By understanding that those secondary stories exist and can be used to help tell the main story the main story itself can be deeply strengthened. . . and if poorly done will weaken a story.
SO yeah...I too have always been looking at the table in the background.
@@merlinthelemurian3197 I want a Goldenheart table.
As far as I know, the Lannisters never owed the iron bank any money. The Crown did. And the crown owed money to the Lannisters. The problems of the Lannisters was, that although the crown was in deep dept to them, so they were rich as hell on paper, their gold mines were depleted and their reserves were rapidly declining. And after the Lannisters took over the throne, they owed all that dept to themselves, which didn't really make them any richer.
I guess that will be a huge thing in book 6 and/or 7. Looking forward for 2049.
In the Show, Tywin told Cercei that the mines had been empty for at LEAST a year already, and that they had borrowed a large portion of the money they loaned to the crown, and spent on the war from the Iron Bank.
Not sure if the situation is the same in the books though.
@@alexanderbarkle5040 thats a show only thing in the books the lannisters mines are far from empty
@@MassielRoss Yeah there is no way those huge gold mines just depletes in years. We do not talk about one gold mine after all.
@@exosproudmamabear558 In all fairness Casterly Rock had been continuously mined for literally thousands of years, since the Age of Heroes before the Andal invasion to Westeros. In reality, it's surprising they haven't managed to deplete the mine yet after such a long time.
Retotion yea if gold was being mined efficiently for that long then why is gold as cherished as it is?
"...Game of Thrones, an ongoing book series..."
Me:
*cries in winds of winter*
Any day now
Fans together cry with you
laments in a dream of spring
Matt Johnson it would be better to give up on that book my friend
*Cries as well*
The North pulls off a “Brexit” at the end of the show. I wonder how that affects trade between the North and the Westeros Union.
The North was already an autonomous region that had its own taxes and laws. As long as they remain on friendly terms, trade between the two nations should remain the same. The biggest economic factor is going to be the ability to rebuild after the wars. The North lost a lot of its already small population and its closed trading partner, the Riverlands was devastated economically during the war. The Reach and Dorne were the least damaged by the wars and they already had strong economies so they will be dominating the Westeros trade for decades to come.
I think this was only possible because the new King was the brother of the new Queen in the North. And I think Bran hasn't a real interest in beeing king. Notwithstanding that his election as king needs a huge part of suspension of disbelieve from the viewer ...
Przemek Kozlowski The North was devastated by the Night King and his army. Even Winterfell was destroyed. Bran the Broken never authorized a Marshall plan for the North so they’re not likely to rebuild their crippled infrastructure. With a long winter ahead, the North’s economy is going to collapse. They’ll run out of resources and will enter a prolonged economic depression. The citizens of the North who don’t starve to death are going to witness a huge devaluation of their currency. A lot of northerners will immigrate to the South in search of a better life. The mass illegal immigration to the South will create social unrest which in turn will lead to a Trump type of idiot taking over the Iron Throne. A wall will be built between the North and the Six Kingdoms in order to prevent further illegal immigration into the Six Kingdoms. In retrospect Sansa Stark was really stupid to declare independence without having the financial means to run the North as a sovereign country. Her father Ned Stark never declared independence, because he knew that the North couldn’t survive without the financial support of the Iron Throne.
It was insane how Bran just 'let the north go' what a horrible king already. What's to stop the other lords from thinking 'I don't want to take shit from some kid, I'll declare independence too!'...
Marin Angelov, everything you where saying made sense until you mentioned President Trump and then it just went of the rails, however your original point was an quite realistic analysis of the future of the North.
Can we please get more of these? Love these fantasy fiction economys
Certainly the plan. I find economies like this just as interesting as the real deal :)
@@EconomicsExplained Hope you can review the economies of Anime series as well; anime with a focus on economies like Escha and Logy no Atelier, Spice and Wolf. Or fantasy ones like Overlord!
@@EconomicsExplained do the economy of Middle Earth
@@EconomicsExplained The economics of Dune. You could talk about the monopoly of the guild and of course the spice of arrakis.
40k?
The thing most people hated about the finale was that i went into a cliche high fantasy ending and forgot about the grounded political intrigue, economic woes and social struggles that made the show feel real.
As you say, people who never cared about dragons or sex watched the show for the political intrigue, cunning characters and even just to admire the settings!!
I never liked fantasy because its not consistent and everything is either explained by saying 'magic' or not at all. Game of thrones on the other hand felt like a live documentory of some medieval european war. And that was the exciting factor. In the last seasons though all of that collapsed into mass produced garbage
@@SimplifiedFinanceSiFi what fantasy have you watched? There are hundreds of great fantasy stories out there with internal consistency, logic, and explanations that are not just "magic". LOTR, The Chronicles of Fantasy Land, and The Witcher being good examples
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 I like none of the movies you mentioned as well as harry potter and that shit haha
@@SimplifiedFinanceSiFi movies? I am talking about the books
@@SimplifiedFinanceSiFi A guy here on RUclips actually equated Daenerys' dragons with gun powder artillery.
I guess the zombies could be seen as a disease of some sort, or, global warming. An extinction event in any case*.
I do love how tables and furnitures can represent a country's economic situtation. Its like judging someone's wealth through their manners and clothings
This is actually the most used way how they describe it in a book.
Clothing: if they look like shit, they are either REALLY important, or really not.
In the feudal system this was how you can discern peasantry and lordship.
Last time i was this early, the show was still amazing.
ooft
@@EconomicsExplained love your vids, man
@@biggiec8224heard they got fired from star wars LMAO
JC Denton. Deus X was pretty good.
@@smaronboruah1921 because of netflix's $200 mil
I always thought of the Iron Bank of Braavos being based on the Medici Bank of Florence, since it fits in more with the “time setting”.
The Lannisters always pay their debt - which is equivalent of a strong credit score I guess. ROFL.
I never even thought about how paying back the crown's debts to the Iron Bank could be a huge mistake.
Westeros is bankrupt, defaulted on a loan to buy all of the jetpacks for season 8.
Season what? I thought this show ended in season 6?
Haha and also the jetpacks can't explain the horses
Season what? I thought the show ended in season 4?
@@aloadofbollocks988 nah, they had a pretty sloppy final season 5, maybe that's what he's talking about.
I found the banks more reminiscent of the Italian banks in Florence around 15,16th century. The financial situations of the 100 years war saw so much money being lent and changing sides it was crazy.
Can you explain the economics of the horrible ending?🤷♀️😆
he said he watched season 1 to 5 for so and so often... I think that was a subtle clue about what he thinks about the rest ;)
@@rygerrivers3598
I agree, I was just making a joke about how bad the ending was 😊
You're so cool
@@mrjavk2634
Thanks I try xx
Ryger Rivers You can’t even mention got without people blabbing about s8.
The economics of ww2 germany
Yes it intrigued me. I read something that say in the rule of Hitler. Germany came out and lift its wreck economy after loses in ww1 and make it have capacity to war again. I wonder who came with the idea and how they do it.
Extra credit make a video about it
If you have like an extra 10 hours to burn, Adam Tooze's book the Wages of Destruction is quite a read.
@@raifikarj6698 yes because like 40% of the population was working in the rearmament/military industry. Kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy...
RAI F hjalmar schlacht fixed the economy. Go look it up. Vampire economy is a good book on itZ
One thing that I think the books (and the show to some extent) did well was to show the devasting impact of war on a society reliant on subsistence agriculture. The threat of mass starvation was very real and was part of what forced the Lannisters into an alliance with the Tyrells.
Hmm you thought Westeros was great britain and Essos was mainland europe? Reading the books always got the vibe the inspiration for the asoiaf world was sorta:
The north: scotland/all of great britain
Far north Iceland/norther scandinavia
Kings landing: Vatican city
Iron islands: Denmark, but ireland location wise
Stormlands: Germanic
Dorne: Spain/Morocco
The reach: France
Westerlands: Holy Roman empire region? Or Switzerland cuz they have all the money.
Or Reach/westerlands could be west and east france?
Riverlands: Wales, or maybe central mainland europe
The vale: Slavic region or southern scandinavian
Pentos: Alexandria, maybe greece
Braavos: Venice
Valyrian freehold: Roman empire
Free cities: Middle East, ottoman/Persian area
Dothraki: Mongols
Qarth to Slavers bay: India and surrounds
Yi ti empire: China
Sothoryos: central africa
Great video. I love it when people use deduction on fictional worlds to explore their economies. I have two thoughts on your video.
1) I think you are dead wrong that the most efficient way to produce things in Westeros is with centralize industry. You are clearly forgetting transportation costs. Even if Westros magically gained all our technology, it would not make sense. Transportation costs are the biggest inhibitor to all forms of centralization. It is farm more efficient to scatter craftsmen over Westeros and utilize local resources.
2. I am surprised you did not comment on the cash hoard of the Tyrells. It stuck me as VERY odd. First, even "rich" governments are prone to realitively small treasuries. About the only times they seem to occur is after conquests or years of peaceful rule by skillful misers. Second, the Middle ages on which Westros was based were notorious for their lack of specie. The steady flow of specie out Europe for Eastern luxuries had been happening since Rome and was a factor in the length of the Dark Ages. Next, what were the Tyrells doing sitting on such a hoard at war time? They had access to largest freelance mercenary pool in Westros (Old Town) and time bulk up their forces. Finally why didn't the clever Olena have her most trusted servants just spitefully dump the treasury in the Mander River? The whole thing stunk contrived brilliance for the sake of the plot.
If westros had improved infrastructure an safety, then specialising is the way forward. English wool was a cornerstone export to Europe, and it's extensive sale in Italy was a key market during much of the mediaeval era.
Specialisation improves quality and efficiency of volume, these offset transport costs. Even in "equal economies". In non perishable goods speed of shipping is less important over consistent and regular flow.
Think you can say this again and not sound like a total douchebag lol
Shipping costs were fairly low in medieval times, the point is just that specialisation couldn't occur except in large population centres because most people were peasants required to farm. For widespread craftsmen to exist farming technology would have to reach a point where less than a vast majority of the population could produce all of the food so that the others could do crafts. This change did happen in the real world and is the key to a feudal economy developing into a modern economy.
Y’all should do economics of Panem from Hunger Games, considering its one consumer region supplied by twelve producer regions. Sounds potentially efficient.
Best rising RUclips channel. You made me interested in Economics. Love all the videos so far! Keep going.
Thanks mate that's so nice to hear :)
You should cover Spice and Wolf, an anime literally about early Renaissance economics
sadly the only economics anime out there :'(
"Sadly it's the only economics anime out there."
Log Horizon and That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: "Am I a joke to you?"
@@MogofWar well yes they do have their funny parts
I really like your videos! This one was very interesting because I hadn’t thought about the show like this before
Just found your channel, binged watched your videos..this way my favorite one. Thanks for making it
"who watches this show and thinks about how that table was made" ...wow, I always thought I was the only one! 😍
Your best video yet IMO. Glad I subbed
Loving these videos mate
A good insight in a dimension very few would think of. Nice one. 👍
I love the long silent and black breaks in the video. Makes for a comfy pace
Hands down one of the best GoT analysis video on RUclips. One word Moreeeeee!
Haha may do a follow up video we will see. I was afraid people may be a little bit over GOT these days.
@@EconomicsExplained People will never get over GOT now. We don't know if George will ever finish the books and the TV finale left in such an unsatisfactory way it will stay in our minds foreva. In fact if it had a good ending we would have an easier time because of the sense of completion
Thank you, you made me realize I need to rethink how I see reality and how I need to look deep down into the details. Cheers!
As always, Great Vid mate!!
Could I request video/s (series) explaining:
1. The history of the paper money (All the barter, GS, Representative, etc)
2. How forEx works
- Thanks
I am Loving this channel Its a engaging and a simple channel :D
Thanks mate always lovely to hear :)
7:44 Since it's from season 5, I'd guess the Iron Bank being opened up to support Dany was Martin's idea, not D&D.
This is exactly the kind of content I subbed this channel for
Facinating breakdown. Love it!
Even though I usually gravitate towards Austrian Economics I still love this channel.....I can learn more from seeing an opposing view than from keeping in my own bubble....glad I started playing EVE online and got recommended to this channel
Awesome video! Would love to see more of these! Wish it was longer though haha! Also, the gold the Lannisters stole got taken by Daenarys though!
Really do appreciate this video. I have been fascinated with the World Of Ice and Fire since I started reading about it in 2014. George RR Martin wrote himself into a corner trying to to off-branch from the simplicity of JRR Tolkien with Lord of the Rings, but I love it all the same.
So I definitely thought about economics during this a lot and appreciated how much was communicated about the world via subtle details. In fact the scene that upset me most is probably when late in the series a navy of 1000 warships is constructed by a poor area of the world that survived only by raiding richer neighbors. The fact that this group shouldn't have the money or productive capacity to produce anything like such a fleet really was jarring for me and seemed to be a departure from the more realistic economy of earlier seasons
Nice video, dude! I love Got and your videos! Best regards...
Your pedantic economic breakdowns of something as obscure as to how the local economy affects the furniture made is supremely interesting.
The Economy of Westeros in the book can best be explained as,”Plantkon’s knowledge of the Krabby Patty”
Hi Guys, I hope you enjoy the latest video. As always I do my best to respond to all serious questions in the comment section.
The inspiration for this weeks video actually came from the boo (Greif, A., 2006. Institutions and the path to the modern economy: Lessons from medieval trade. Cambridge University Press.) which is free to read online and definitely worth your while for anybody interested in this kind of stuff.
Otherwise come and chat with me and the team on Discord - discord.gg/rtSJkWM
Thanks guys :)
Yeah dude, I don't know anything about economics, I clicked as a GoT fan and you kept me engaged the whole way through and I learnt things about economics and Game of Thrones! Fucking well done man!
0:22 "it wasnt even Emilia Clarc that kept me interested in the show", liar
"When you go to rewatch seasons 1 to 5." Ah back when the seasons got progressively better not worse.
@@EresirThe1st I tend to think seasons 3 and 4 were easily the best seasons. I also really enjoyed season 6.
Season 4 was the best. The decline started with season 5 but honestly I don’t think the show got nearly as bad as everyone else thinks.
Meh, 1-3 were definitely the best. 4 and 5 starts to show a couple cracks and changes made by the writers, but still good. At least everyone’s in agreement on the drop off later on
It's funny how the show tended to be better when it stuck close to the books (excluding Dany in Meereen, that was way too slow in the books imo). Almost like the writing team needed a lot of help to stay good...
I actually thought about the economics of the situation too when I saw GOT. You might consider doing an episode on the economics of “The Expanse” book/tv series.
woo!! love this, can we have a part II and part III please?
Great video
Hi! Being the author of The Witcher an economist, I wonder if that universe has a nice economy to analyze.
Nice video!
btw, December 20th The Witcher series comes out, so it would probably gather a lot of views
I love this channel! Now I know I’m not alone
Really interesting!! Give us more fictional economy stuff
Great videos! You could have gone a bit more in details (Gold driven Casterly Rock economy, agriculture based economy of Highgarden).Could you suggest some books on economics (macroeconomics). -Joel
woooooow been waiting for this
Glad I could deliver :)
Please do a video of each of the kingdoms economic situation and resource availablilty. Also do it in a way that shows ways to grow a kingdoms economic base.
I think for a future video you might be interested in checking out the economics of path of exile. It has a very active economy with no central exchange and which includes several different agreed upon currencies, all of which are also valuable commodities.
I love thinking about the economics in fantasy or games. ... sometimes I get annoyed at some conclusions though, like when prices are off or over/understated.
7:09 perfect timing with showing Deutsche Bank haha
Honestly this was the best thing I've heard about Game of Thrones since it finished.
Great video! Given the material..have you ever played warband? or the recent bannerlord 2? interesting economy in those games
That was actually really interesting
SMASHED the Like Button so hard on this one!
Eww
Very interesting video! I will subscribe in a minute.
A small correction though - the banking family in 5:03 is not pronounced Rots-child but Rot-schild, meaning 'Red shield".
I cannot believe anyone shared my love for dull, dismissive meetings with high ranking pencil pushers. That was my favorite scene also! Would love you to expand on the subject even more
Thought you might of also focused on the regional industries e.g. the reaches agriculture, the Westerlands minerals, Dornes fruit, the iron islands lack of wood resources and how it motivated a raiding culture and the large supply of the norths wood, such as ironwood, and how the norths vaste makes centralised governing difficult, but also has the unifying effect since all northmen need to defend their region to protect themselves from the populous south. Also you could of focused more on boundaries ans centres of trade e.g. the trading towns of the riverlands, the locations of the big ports, mountain passes e.g. in the vale and dorne, river passes in the riverlands such as the Twins. Where the major roads are, how the neck cuts off the north, how kings landing benefitted from narrow see trade.
I think I literally want this economic breakdown serious now🙈
Can you do The Economics of Negative Interest rates? This concept has me so confused.
Hitted like button after hearing GOT BGM...😍😎
Fun idea for a video. Could you do more economies of fictional movies, TV/Streaming Series, etc. Being a fan of animation, could you do something like Monty Burns' wealth from the Simpsons for example?
I love your videos! Can you make one about the economic system in Chile?
I like the brief shot of the suk in the old city of Jerusalem towards the end :-)
Do Star Trek next! Talk about the ferengi, the Nagus, Rules of Acquisition, etc.!
I wish you covered the Wealth of High Garden more.
Just watching cuz i miss the series. its too good i want more.
You should really take a look at The Dagger and the Coin series by Daniel Abraham! Great depiction of economic forces, it's litteraly in the name :)
May I ask, what is the map you use at 0:39?
I have a suggestion for an anime series for you to watch an analyze: Spice and Wolf. It's essentially medieval economics from the perspective of a trader.
stock footage at 8:03 is 👌
interesting stuff
The transport problem was very real in pre-industrial societies. Adam Smith estimated that the cost of moving goods over land, for example, was fifty times more than by sea. And sea transport was vastly more expensive then today.
I didn’t realize the catastrophic mistake Cersei made when she paid the crowns debt..
That's some good teaching.
*_Pay your debts as you promised_*
My man is pumping videos like there is no tomorrow, don't spoil us
Hahaha well while I have interesting stuff to talk about :)
Best game of thrones video ever
CK2 AGOT: *is still a great game*
Me after this video: "Ah shit, here we go again"
Or winning the North as Robb, defeating Lannisters, Stannis, and the most bold even fight off Dany's dragons i.redd.it/jrkl7r36xnc41.png
@Somali Kid why would that be better when he's an idiotic thug
I too appreciated the many times the show created a sense of economic reality. This only made me more furious when late in the shows run, they did something staggeringly unrealistic. The leader of the Ironborn orders his people to build him 100 warships, and they just...do. These are clearly massive ships roughly equivalent to a galleon. The Ironborn are previously shown to be a relatively poor tribe of raiders and warriors, so why they suddenly have the skills and capital to construct these mighty ships (which don't appear to resemble the smaller longships they've been using up to this point) is left without an explanation. By contrast, the mighty Spanish Armada, funded by an intercontinental empire flush with gold, consisted of approximately 130 ships.
If you read Johnathon Sumptions series of books on the hundreds years war you will see that bankers especially the Italian banking houses have always played a huge part in the financing of war
Happy Halloween!
I actually found myself wondering about the economics of Westeros as the TV series dragged on, because I was thinking, wait, what percentage of the population is dying in these wars? You need to have a certain number of people fueling the economy by being, for example, farmers and blacksmiths and stonemasons and the like, and if all those people are dead, it takes time to produce and train new ones. So my thinking was, well, yeah, okay, they've beaten the Night's King and the White Walkers and whoever else but economically they're up the creek without a paddle because the creek is stuffed with dead bodies and all the woodworkers are dead, thus no paddles.
Anyway, putting all that to one side, I enjoyed both this video and the central concept of your channel. You have a new subscriber.
The Iron Bank had made me think of the banks in the Italian city states of the middle age, some of the first banks ever. Since that's what the free cities of Essos was inspired from. But indeed, they were maybe not powerful enough to fund entire states back in the days.
EE : thinks he over analysised
Preston Jacobs : am l a joke to you
Cries in winds of winter
Hey did you steal this from somewhere? I remember seeing this exact point on another video
If different kingdoms specialized in different markets the nation wouldn't be in constant warfare because each kingdom would be dependant on cooperation.
I mean its more fleshed out in the books and definitely a thing:
The North: the fur trade
The Vale: various winter fruits, pumpkins and wax
The Reach: agriculture
Dorne: citrus fruits
Except then the carpenters guild of the realm, having its tablemaking industry outsourced elsewhere, would rebel against their liege lord and instate a populist usurper, who would promise to MAKE [INSERT KINGDOM NAME] GREAT AGAIN by resorting to extreme protectionist measures to shelter the domestic woodworking industry from competition: import bans and trade embargos. Then trade war, political secession, and finally active militarized warfare ensues in quick succession.
So basically the EU
Can you do a video on the economy of Panem in the Hunger Games?
Alright I'm ready to start contributing back for this content where's your patreon at
Loved the visual clue when you said Rothschild
Could you do an examination of Team Fortress 2's economy when it was still strong?
Here's an idea for a future video, what if you were Brans Master of Coin? What things would you do to make the economy take off.