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I rarely leave comments on youtube, but I always enjoy your videos and look forward to more! keep up the great work and I wish you success going forward!
I am from India and it is remarkable how similar these were to ancient Indian guilds. Unfortunately they dissapperead after the Turkic invasions of the 12th Century. I'd guess these Guilds eventually gave rise to the modern companies.
11:44 I don't think that modern unions are like guilds. Usually everyone who works in a field covered by some union can join immediatly, even apprentices, and get full membership. This is very different from guilds, where power lay mainly within the masters. Also the only requirement to join a union is usuallyto pay the due, you don't need an approval by all the other members.
@@worganyos everyone who has the right job can join. You don't need a recommendation from a member or a vote where everyone of your branch has to agree. I think that's a big difference.
@@worganyos Unions can end up being a lot of things but they are not really similar to guilds except in the broadest terms. A big point of guilds is their exclusivity and control of trades. This is not the case for unions. They generally have the opposite goal and effect. Unions are primarily about lobbying for their members and getting them what they're owed (an employer can easily screw over an individual even in the age of workers rights, so organisation of some sort is necessary on this point), and because anyone can join without restriction members means for workers generally. Now consider guilds, where a large underclass of workers have to ply their trade illegally and for those who are members it is members of the guild employing them with no recourse for exploitation and no other options for employment. Even needing certification or licence of some sort to work is not comparable to guilds because there's no exclusivity (there can't be by law). Guilds are much much broader in scope.
@gundarvarr1024 1. You repeat yourself. 2. Most eastern European guilds had no guild wide price fixing, most of the time, especially if the craftsmen were of German descent. Guild were a system for the medieval version of the bourgeoisie to get their share of the pie. They were not an institution to help the peasantry. Florence for instance was ruled by its guildmasters (of its major guilds, which included such ordinary workers as Bankers, Lawyers, Notaries, Merchants and Silk Weavers) before the Medici took over. Most guilds could only be entered by being born to a parents who were already members (one of the reasons that the black death was such a gamechanger in european economics, as German, French and English guilds had to repopulate by allowing non descendants to become apprentices) Guilds existed to protect the mercantile and artisan classes, not for the advancement of ordinary people.
I would assume free means a member of the guild in this context. Its a bit vague but thats the only explanation I can think of because slavery wasn't a thing in europe when guilds become popular.
My ameture knowledge leads me to think that they are referring to indentured servants and serfs. It makes me think of freemen, which were workers who owned land and worked for themselves (paying taxes rather than serfs who didn't own most of the grain they were farming) rather than being in the service of a lord. I know in the Holy Roman Empire there were a number of cities that gained the position of "Free Cities", meaning that while they were part of the state like everyone else, they could govern their own internal affairs within the laws of the empire and did not directly serve a lord. So I imagine being "free" could mean that they were citizens of a free city, "freemen", or otherwise not indentured to someone. Like the guy above said slavery wasn't common at the time (idk enough to comment but seems legit), but I imagine serfdom and other limitations of personal autonomy still existed at the time. But again, that's all a huge generalization, and will almost certainly not represent the truth as it was in any given time and place.
@@aaanawaleh Another important distinction was citizen of a city or not. But this very much sounds like member of the guild, not sure why it says free, I agree.
This makes me really appreciate the attention to detail and blurring of the time setting of Gene Wolfe's absolutely brilliant and highly recommended book "A Book of the New Sun" and by extension the first book in the series "Shadow of the Torturer" in which the protagonist, Severian, is an apprentice in the torturers guild. I cannot recommend the books enough, I am generally speaking, not someone who has a top ranking for my favourites, but if I were you could be certain that Shadow would be very close to the top.
I find guilds to be really interesting. It makes me want to go to london or ampsterdam or any one of the hansa cities back in the 1200s, and just see what things were like
You really missed out with the craftsmens guilds how arbitrarily specialized they were and the competitions between for monopolies. When a cart maker, barrel maker, furniture maker, and wood turner all have the knowledge and skills to make a chair, who get's the monopoly on chair making?
@@chrisandbrennacatania5864 But what if the chair is made only with turned wood, a technique the wood turner's guild has a monopoly on? What if the chair is done in the style of a cart seat, which the cart maker guild has a monopoly on? Guild monopolies can be extremely specific and can cover specific types of products, and products made with specific materials/techniques. There were fierce rivalries, because many guilds were hyper specific, they often had the skillsets to make goods that another guild had a monopoly on. I've seen research where there was a 3 way dispute over making a specific kind of girdle happening between the tailors, purse makers, and leather workers guilds. This is an area where guild rivalries can flare. Lawsuits happen, and gang warfare can occur.
The thing is: Whereas Guilds had members all doing the same job, Companies nowadays don't. And they require people to search out for people with skills that can serve the company's purposes.
Very good up to the last sentence about thinking of modern unions as guilds 😵💫 unions are fundamentally different from guilds in MANY WAYS and I think too many people are eager for a gross simplification and will continue conflating guilds with unions. There’s a reason why Carl Marx was anti-guild but pro-union…
Now that is something that is unfair , while still being fair…unfair to the individual & fair to the collective group I should have said : Hatters guild rule #3 : students who learn fast and gain exceptional skills quickly are basically F’d over & you could have apprentices more skilled then their masters after a short period and be forced to remain apprentice for years after you surpassed your master ! Nevermind the journeyman years on top of that ! As all rules are usually “written in blood” ; I would Imagine that particular rule was added after one 2 many young apprentices presented masterworks better then half their masters best work if not half the guilds masterpieces after a short time ! I guess I should have mentioned #2 because that is unfair and outright monopolization and anti competitive practices :
I think you underestimate the knowledge and skill that these crafts would have. How would an apprentice surpass their master? There were no books to read back then (besides personal notes, if you could even read or write) no online tutorials, you only knew what your master knew and will always have less experience. So, unless your master is old and their senses failing, you'd almost always be second. That's exactly my experience working in a practical/craft job.
@@TazPessle I acknowledge the possibility that what your saying is indeed true. However, I also think you yourself are underestimating the intelligence and ability/talent possessed by some humans and not others, Besides the fact that I said “all rules are written in blood” , I truly believe that humanity displays a wide variety or intelligence, ability, comprehension, & talent - from individual to individual ! ( whether this is based on nature or nurture is a whole other argument / conversation that has still yet to be proven beyond dispute ~ even if it is proven beyond dispute it will still be disputed because as the old saying goes - *The Truth HURTS !* ) I am not saying it wasn’t a great system because - for all its flaws - it was. It was a system meant to protect and enrich the organization and not the individual. As such the more talented individuals with greater ability then their elders were pushed down and suppressed in favour of the organization ! You can only learn as fast as your master / mentor / teacher can / will, or decides to teach you. In such professions “The Tricks of The Trade” may take time to discover, master, and perfect. However, some will learn faster then others, & some will obtain the tricks through their own efforts. One man may be smarter then another, but the other man may be more dedicated, interested, and involved. Hence : *The Tortoise Beats The Hare* ….I think I am rambling now…. Sorry. Bottom line is I do believe my statement holds true & that certain individual’s surpass the organization but the organization is organized in such a way as to democratize the craft - among the brotherhood alone of course - just contemplate for a second if you will : The wide range of intelligences,competitiveness, etc. among people - & than place them in a time where there was very few to absolutely no outlet for their abilities. Confined to narrow guilds & systems. Back then was absolute hell for those with superior abilities, talents, intelligence, competitiveness, and ambition. As a common man : ~~~ Unless you were born in China, where The Imperial Examinations had for over 1000 years allowed common men of ability, skill, intelligence, ambition, etc. to rise to the ranks & offices of leadership & bureaucracy. Where a scholar class of literati intelligencia was nurtured among the population of the common born & not the nepotism centric systems of office by birth ! This system is what made China the greatest nation on earth for a long time, and was almost singularity unique as a true meritocracy - while still being under an imperial regime ! - this meritocracy in fact solidified the emperors right to rule and legitimized his office by allowing the lowest born to rise to the highest offices !!! Some of Chinas greatest men in history - if not most or all - were common men who rose to their ranks by merit & ability & not by bribery, nepotism and corruption ! ( oh how the tables have turned, and it is indeed pitifully sad that it is so ! GuanXi was heavily implemented under Manchu rule & the corrupt boot licker Han traitors used it to rise in the ranks ! Then the illiterate peasant farmers - who seized control after the fall of the dynasty and the flight of the national party to Taiwan - being the illiterate & greedy fools that they were reall Y thought “GuanXi is a great system, of course I deserve to be bribed, of course my kids deserve to be in high office, of course….” Illiterate fools who murked not just their culture but their entire scholar class !!! ) ~~~ Now where was I… what were we talking about !? Lol sorry for the tangents ! Basically yes I respect your job, yes I respect the concept and implementation of these ancient - Master, Apprentice, Guild Organizations - Yes a I Acknowledge That Time on Top of Time May Abe a required to Master A Craft !!! ~~ However, I believe it holds true that some are just smarter and more talented if not more determined & pliable ! Once again, I am sorry for the rant and wild tangents…. FYI no I am not Chinese despite my username ( it is based off a popular Chinese Book by a renowned author from Hong Kong ) Sincerely - White As The Driven Snow - From Canada !
To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/TheGeneralistPapers/ . The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription.
Assassin Guild- Thou shall not punch through a man's spine to yell FATALITY as an acceptable method of assassination.
Well they're no fun
That’s when you find a new Assassins Guild, they’re clearly not professional enough for a man of my skills.
Ew boring
Are you a fan of Terry Pratchett?
4:56-5:51 apprentices also (at least sometimes) had to pay their master for room, board and food.
I rarely leave comments on youtube, but I always enjoy your videos and look forward to more! keep up the great work and I wish you success going forward!
Indeed
"You are in this Guild, but we do not grant you the rank of Master"
I am from India and it is remarkable how similar these were to ancient Indian guilds. Unfortunately they dissapperead after the Turkic invasions of the 12th Century. I'd guess these Guilds eventually gave rise to the modern companies.
11:44 I don't think that modern unions are like guilds. Usually everyone who works in a field covered by some union can join immediatly, even apprentices, and get full membership. This is very different from guilds, where power lay mainly within the masters. Also the only requirement to join a union is usuallyto pay the due, you don't need an approval by all the other members.
Except for who can join, they're basically the same thing.
@@worganyos everyone who has the right job can join. You don't need a recommendation from a member or a vote where everyone of your branch has to agree. I think that's a big difference.
@@worganyos Unions can end up being a lot of things but they are not really similar to guilds except in the broadest terms. A big point of guilds is their exclusivity and control of trades. This is not the case for unions. They generally have the opposite goal and effect. Unions are primarily about lobbying for their members and getting them what they're owed (an employer can easily screw over an individual even in the age of workers rights, so organisation of some sort is necessary on this point), and because anyone can join without restriction members means for workers generally. Now consider guilds, where a large underclass of workers have to ply their trade illegally and for those who are members it is members of the guild employing them with no recourse for exploitation and no other options for employment. Even needing certification or licence of some sort to work is not comparable to guilds because there's no exclusivity (there can't be by law). Guilds are much much broader in scope.
Unions do limit the amount of jobs so in that way they are similar to guilds
@@jonahyingling1854 ??? How? Is it illegal to start a business making hats for example without joining a hat union in your country?
Mango in Latin turned into work in Italian, it’s also were get the word Manage and Manager.
A really great rundown - thank you.
Love this channel, appreciate these videos and its always great to see an upload.
The way people get around guild restrictions:
Is that a sword?
No, it's a knife, a really long one.
Oh alright then.
You forgot the main thing guild was made for : TO FIX A PRICE
Some guilds did that, and others did not. And those that did did so to protect the profitability of their trade, not to make it more accessible.
@@jorenvanderark3567 which guild doesn't?
@@jorenvanderark3567 which guild doesn't?
@gundarvarr1024
1. You repeat yourself.
2. Most eastern European guilds had no guild wide price fixing, most of the time, especially if the craftsmen were of German descent.
Guild were a system for the medieval version of the bourgeoisie to get their share of the pie. They were not an institution to help the peasantry. Florence for instance was ruled by its guildmasters (of its major guilds, which included such ordinary workers as Bankers, Lawyers, Notaries, Merchants and Silk Weavers) before the Medici took over. Most guilds could only be entered by being born to a parents who were already members (one of the reasons that the black death was such a gamechanger in european economics, as German, French and English guilds had to repopulate by allowing non descendants to become apprentices)
Guilds existed to protect the mercantile and artisan classes, not for the advancement of ordinary people.
@@jorenvanderark3567 yeah their MAIN PURPOSE IS TO FIX A PRICE
Interesting video. I noticed the word "free" come up a lot. In what context did they mean "free?"
I would assume free means a member of the guild in this context. Its a bit vague but thats the only explanation I can think of because slavery wasn't a thing in europe when guilds become popular.
My ameture knowledge leads me to think that they are referring to indentured servants and serfs. It makes me think of freemen, which were workers who owned land and worked for themselves (paying taxes rather than serfs who didn't own most of the grain they were farming) rather than being in the service of a lord.
I know in the Holy Roman Empire there were a number of cities that gained the position of "Free Cities", meaning that while they were part of the state like everyone else, they could govern their own internal affairs within the laws of the empire and did not directly serve a lord.
So I imagine being "free" could mean that they were citizens of a free city, "freemen", or otherwise not indentured to someone. Like the guy above said slavery wasn't common at the time (idk enough to comment but seems legit), but I imagine serfdom and other limitations of personal autonomy still existed at the time.
But again, that's all a huge generalization, and will almost certainly not represent the truth as it was in any given time and place.
@@aaanawaleh Another important distinction was citizen of a city or not. But this very much sounds like member of the guild, not sure why it says free, I agree.
This makes me really appreciate the attention to detail and blurring of the time setting of Gene Wolfe's absolutely brilliant and highly recommended book "A Book of the New Sun" and by extension the first book in the series "Shadow of the Torturer" in which the protagonist, Severian, is an apprentice in the torturers guild.
I cannot recommend the books enough, I am generally speaking, not someone who has a top ranking for my favourites, but if I were you could be certain that Shadow would be very close to the top.
I find guilds to be really interesting. It makes me want to go to london or ampsterdam or any one of the hansa cities back in the 1200s, and just see what things were like
Being a physician is very much like being a member of a guild. We have a LOT of rules and licensures to deal with lol
The feast days sound exactly like modern holiday observances which I think is cool
Room and board means lodging and food. Board refers to the table food was served on
Beautifully-made video!!!!!
I always look forward to your next video. Cheers :)
Very cool video!
One would be a fool to attempt night time hattery.
10 lashes
Adventurer Guild 💪😎👌
Ty
For a practical example of how guilds might have worked, watch Spice & Wolf.
You really missed out with the craftsmens guilds how arbitrarily specialized they were and the competitions between for monopolies. When a cart maker, barrel maker, furniture maker, and wood turner all have the knowledge and skills to make a chair, who get's the monopoly on chair making?
Chairs are furniture
@@chrisandbrennacatania5864 But what if the chair is made only with turned wood, a technique the wood turner's guild has a monopoly on? What if the chair is done in the style of a cart seat, which the cart maker guild has a monopoly on? Guild monopolies can be extremely specific and can cover specific types of products, and products made with specific materials/techniques. There were fierce rivalries, because many guilds were hyper specific, they often had the skillsets to make goods that another guild had a monopoly on. I've seen research where there was a 3 way dispute over making a specific kind of girdle happening between the tailors, purse makers, and leather workers guilds. This is an area where guild rivalries can flare. Lawsuits happen, and gang warfare can occur.
John Smith didn't miss neck day that's for sure!
First Comment:
Excellent presentation
GREAT video
I personally think we should go back to the guild system. I have never been a fan of capitalism or communism.
The thing is:
Whereas Guilds had members all doing the same job, Companies nowadays don't. And they require people to search out for people with skills that can serve the company's purposes.
Guilds do you have negatives. Nothing is perfect. I think a lot of positive came from them.
Corporations are kind of like guilds too
I thought more about unions before he mentioned them at the end of the vid
like punishing medical malpractice...
Education Guild. It wasn't for everyone.
Very good up to the last sentence about thinking of modern unions as guilds 😵💫 unions are fundamentally different from guilds in MANY WAYS and I think too many people are eager for a gross simplification and will continue conflating guilds with unions. There’s a reason why Carl Marx was anti-guild but pro-union…
Now that is something that is unfair , while still being fair…unfair to the individual & fair to the collective group I should have said :
Hatters guild rule #3 : students who learn fast and gain exceptional skills quickly are basically F’d over & you could have apprentices more skilled then their masters after a short period and be forced to remain apprentice for years after you surpassed your master ! Nevermind the journeyman years on top of that !
As all rules are usually “written in blood” ; I would Imagine that particular rule was added after one 2 many young apprentices presented masterworks better then half their masters best work if not half the guilds masterpieces after a short time !
I guess I should have mentioned #2 because that is unfair and outright monopolization and anti competitive practices :
I think you underestimate the knowledge and skill that these crafts would have. How would an apprentice surpass their master? There were no books to read back then (besides personal notes, if you could even read or write) no online tutorials, you only knew what your master knew and will always have less experience. So, unless your master is old and their senses failing, you'd almost always be second. That's exactly my experience working in a practical/craft job.
@@TazPessle
I acknowledge the possibility that what your saying is indeed true.
However, I also think you yourself are underestimating the intelligence and ability/talent possessed by some humans and not others,
Besides the fact that I said “all rules are written in blood” , I truly believe that humanity displays a wide variety or intelligence, ability, comprehension, & talent - from individual to individual ! ( whether this is based on nature or nurture is a whole other argument / conversation that has still yet to be proven beyond dispute ~ even if it is proven beyond dispute it will still be disputed because as the old saying goes - *The Truth HURTS !* )
I am not saying it wasn’t a great system because - for all its flaws - it was. It was a system meant to protect and enrich the organization and not the individual. As such the more talented individuals with greater ability then their elders were pushed down and suppressed in favour of the organization !
You can only learn as fast as your master / mentor / teacher can / will, or decides to teach you. In such professions “The Tricks of The Trade” may take time to discover, master, and perfect. However, some will learn faster then others, & some will obtain the tricks through their own efforts.
One man may be smarter then another, but the other man may be more dedicated, interested, and involved. Hence :
*The Tortoise Beats The Hare*
….I think I am rambling now…. Sorry.
Bottom line is I do believe my statement holds true & that certain individual’s surpass the organization but the organization is organized in such a way as to democratize the craft - among the brotherhood alone of course - just contemplate for a second if you will :
The wide range of intelligences,competitiveness, etc. among people - & than place them in a time where there was very few to absolutely no outlet for their abilities. Confined to narrow guilds & systems.
Back then was absolute hell for those with superior abilities, talents, intelligence, competitiveness, and ambition.
As a common man :
~~~ Unless you were born in China, where The Imperial Examinations had for over 1000 years allowed common men of ability, skill, intelligence, ambition, etc. to rise to the ranks & offices of leadership & bureaucracy. Where a scholar class of literati intelligencia was nurtured among the population of the common born & not the nepotism centric systems of office by birth ! This system is what made China the greatest nation on earth for a long time, and was almost singularity unique as a true meritocracy - while still being under an imperial regime ! - this meritocracy in fact solidified the emperors right to rule and legitimized his office by allowing the lowest born to rise to the highest offices !!! Some of Chinas greatest men in history - if not most or all - were common men who rose to their ranks by merit & ability & not by bribery, nepotism and corruption !
( oh how the tables have turned, and it is indeed pitifully sad that it is so ! GuanXi was heavily implemented under Manchu rule & the corrupt boot licker Han traitors used it to rise in the ranks ! Then the illiterate peasant farmers - who seized control after the fall of the dynasty and the flight of the national party to Taiwan - being the illiterate & greedy fools that they were reall Y thought “GuanXi is a great system, of course I deserve to be bribed, of course my kids deserve to be in high office, of course….” Illiterate fools who murked not just their culture but their entire scholar class !!! ) ~~~
Now where was I… what were we talking about !? Lol sorry for the tangents !
Basically yes I respect your job, yes I respect the concept and implementation of these ancient - Master, Apprentice, Guild Organizations - Yes a I Acknowledge That Time on Top of Time May Abe a required to Master A Craft !!! ~~
However, I believe it holds true that some are just smarter and more talented if not more determined & pliable !
Once again, I am sorry for the rant and wild tangents…. FYI no I am not Chinese despite my username ( it is based off a popular Chinese Book by a renowned author from Hong Kong )
Sincerely - White As The Driven Snow - From Canada !
I mean the whole Guild scheme is basically Monopoly tho, thats not free trade since those Warden can also be brought over right
the medieval times were very controlling .
this is horibly il-informed.
How so