I lived in Rangiora for a few years and visited Kaiapo several times during my time there but was unaware of it's rich history, or the Pa for that matter. So I found this episode very interesting indeed, great work as usual.
Great video! I grew up and live less than a kilometre away and I’ve driven past many times, but never stopped. I knew there was once a pa there but had no idea it’s significance, I’m going to go have a walk around tomorrow evening. Thank you :)
Get the book out of the Library 'Kaiapohia, the story of a seige' by James West Stack. Then visit it again knowing two fascinating stories that led to the Pā's destruction, cheers
I visited the Tauwhare Pā in March 2021. Its an excellent complex ...of course I droned it. I shall see if there is a story that needs to be told about this Pā and its people, or do you know of one?
@@kiwicodger Yes there is a beautiful story I'm sure you will love. Long story short, about how a relationship between a whakatohia lady and a ngatiawa man from Tauwhare pā had a baby that when her jealous man from whakatohia came with all the wakas full of warriors to war for her, she stood and held the baby and threatend to drop it off the cliff if they fight. The war party turned around and that famous event United whakatohia and ngatiawa to this day. Very dull way I just told the story I gave it no justice at all lol, but it is easy to find someone in whakatane who would love to work with you on it... Oh love your reo♥️💛💚. I will try find a contact for you. Might be a good one for ya because it is very accessible. There are many stories in that area because many tribes from around that area all used Ohiwa as their pantry for Kai. Love your work.
Cheers for your reply....alas, this series is on the Musket Wars, not Musket wars love stories :)...although I did enjoy your gem of a story above. I looked up Tauwhare Pā in Ron Crosby's Musket Wars but its not mentioned. Good for the people of Tauwhare Pā, but alas no major battles there...please prove Ron wrong and we'll do an episode!
@@kiwicodger absolutley agree, I forgot this is a separate series on musket wars, I love it how it is forget my comment. Maybe one day in another series of stories and events. There was no musket war at Tauwhare pā sorry completely different time line.👍🏽
Wai Pounamu would never be the same again....what Hongi did to the North Island from Whangarie to Roturua, Te Rauparaha did to the Horowhenua all the way to the middle of the South Island. He definitely was a real menace!
@@kiwicodger Yup two peas in a pod, also I would like to point out that I heard from somewhere but I’m not entirely sure but wasn’t the name Kaiapohia Te Rauparahas victory slur made about Kaiapoi after its fall. I think it mocked the meaning from the pilling of food (Kaiapoi) to the Pilling of Bodies (Kaiapohia) to eat.
Yes I have come across similar writing about Kaiapoi/Kaiapohia. The monument on site was instigated by James West Stack and he opened and dedicated the monument. The inscription has the Pā site as Kaiapohia, he was fluent in Te Reo and intimate with Ngai Tahu in the area. I find it impossible to think that he got it wrong, hence my use of Kaiapohia.
This is an Impressive representation. You have given us a small glimpse of the relatable human side of history, something that is easy to forget .Keep up the good work codger! .
Hi Codger you might find this interesting. In Herries Beattie's 'Tikao Talks' Teone Taare Tikau, the last Ngai Tahu tohunga is adamant that Kaiapoi pa was never called Kaiapohia. From page 123 ... "Now I want you to clearly understand the name was never Kaiapohia. That name is purely a North Island invention, and was first used by a Ngati Awa tohunga, who made a song at Waikanae when Te Rauparaha was coming south, and in what you might call a burst of poetical frenzy he lengthened out the word "Kaiapoi." The new form caught on in the North, although it does not make sense nor agree with the naming by Turakautahi; no self-respecting South Islander would use it."
I am open as to what the correct name for the Pā may be. JW Stack who wrote 'Kaiapohia, the story of a Seige' (published 1893) used Pita Te Hori as his main source. Pita was born around 1810 and is said to have been at the battle at Kaipohia when the Pā fell. Teone Taare Tikao was born about 1850, his father and uncle were taken captive at Kaiapohia and taken north, then freed after the ToW. Teone is said to have provided Stack with much info on Ngai Tahu also. So really it comes down to who Stack thought was closer to the mark and re the name he has gone with Kaiapohia, which must have been what Pita went with, although that is an extrapolation. If there is a reliable source today from Ngai Tahu who can argue this matter it would be good if they added to this thread.
@@kiwicodger Te Rauparaha named it Kaiapohia after eating some of my relations after his successful siege. A pretty reliable source well there are two of them, is that the place name on highway 1 says Kaiapoi Pa which you can see on google maps and also the plain fact that the large town of Kaiapoi just south of there is called Kaiapoi not Kaiapohia. But also poi means to swing or throw which makes sense with kai which is food. To swing food to this one place. Calling it Kaiapohia totally destroys this as being the place of the throwing or swinging of food. So it has to be Kaiapoi when looking at the fact that the Pa was a central place where they gathered to share the food. I see this weak argument on the internet that two testimonials were ignored by many but accepted by some authors from Waruwarutu who was a boy during the time of the siege and Tikao who was born in 1950 with both adamant that it was Kaiapoi and not Kaiapohia. Well hello as if the name of the Pa was never ever mentioned again. It would have been hot topic among Ngai Tahu for years. Did Stack ask Pita Te Hori what the meaning of Kaiapohia was? It doesn't seem so Yet Kaiapoi goes perfectly with the swinging of food to one place
@@craigkennett6226 The truth is long lost to us now. It really depends on which Tohanga you wnt to believe. Pita Te Hori has been honoured by Ngai Tahu by having their main building in Christchurch called Pita Te Hori. However I am open to changing my preference if someone can come up with some great argument, back by references.
@@kiwicodger okay I'll just stick to all the common sense. It comes in handy sometimes like the things I already posted. We all know Turakautahi made it the main place for a food base so kaiapoi makes way more sense than kaiapohia which you nor Pita Te Hori give any meaning to. What does kaiapohia mean? We know what Kaiapoi means and it fits the description of the Pa. A place to swing food to as the main food base for Ngai Tahu
And Tōhunga - the -hu- in Tōhunga is a -u- not a -a-, it's not Tōhanga if that makes sense👍🏻, I love his mahi I didn't want to correct him on such a little couple of things when his mahi is magnificent. Love the way you addressed it, nice.
Great presentation. The 3D graphics really assist in appreciating the layout and fortifications of the pa. Was there artistic license in the way you laid out the whares in orderly rows or is there evidence to show that this was a typical arrangement? Looking forward to the follow up postings.
Hi Onslow, alas it is my limited skills with the 3D package, Blender, that has everything in rows and columns. I created a centre road through the Pā and assumed one hapu was on one side the other on the other. This Pā would have changed over its 125 years of existence, I feel that the initial layout would have been more haphazard, then evolved and some structure and system would have developed for efficiency based on experience... we can only surmise now.
Thank you Codger! VERY informative! Good Job! I am another Ol Codger & despite my living a few (80) miles south I have never walked this site Wish you had shown the Impressive Lim,estone Column (mt Somers (KIKI) limestone ,its MUCH better than Oamaru soft muck) It commemorates the aweful demise of the Pa. Thank you also for the factual recreation . Really appreciate the sticking to facts rather than wandering off into woke wacky Woo, as is the tendency these days. We ,especially the young, tend to be trying to over romanticise past history . All history is pretty GRIM (just get a Toothache!) but the real gritty reality is hard for folks (like todays) who have NEVER been cold or hungry to really appreciate the past we have sprung from. ----I shall be going through MORE of your material! Thank you
After the Elizabeth Affair I shall be covering Te Rauparaha's siege of Kaiapohia, another turning point in South Island History. I shall look into Mt Somers Kiki, this is the first time I've heard of it. Yes people of today think the world was always like this, it makes you shake your head. Cheers
Tēnā koe Matua, thank you for this and toue other videos. I whakapapa to Kaiapoi and it is so nice to have such good footage of it to look to and learn from. By any chance do you know anything about the Pāhia Pā that were made in Southland following the invasion on Kaiapoi? Ngā mihi nui!
Check out episodes 50 and 51. It wasn't only Hongi who was at the dinner table. I will do more on Ngati Kahungungu and Te Wera (Ngapuhi) in the future.
Glad you enjoyed it! Yep the graphics are taking too much time but I’m still in the learning phase,! it’s limiting my output, I’ll have to review things re graphics, still , enjoying the learning at the moment.
Thanks again codger I always read about this pa in musket wars & to see it like u show it something else..u don't let us down either may visit that place myself 1 day
Went there for hikoi ..definitely a long way from kapiti & kawhia didn't plan it but ended up that way should be a must stop for any 1 visiting waipounamu ..west coast is something else wat a video this is tho makes u proud to be from our beautiful whenua
There used to be a staircase arangement that people could climb up and get a high view of the Pā, there was signage etc, but then vandals and age took there toll and all that is gone. Certainly this is a treasure.
This Famous Pa is only half a mile down a shingle road off highway one. No bull still a shingle road and just over the back from them is the flash modern Pagasus settlement. I think it's colonial racism
Nothing to do with "colonialism OR "racism" .do what you can to live NOW do not try to rewrite history--- read the terrible fall of this Pa , then work to make a better world today. Maori history --like ALL history was mostly cruel full of slavery domination torture cruelty & mayhem! ,women got the worst too .don't rewrite the past ..do BETTER!@@craigkennett6226
Usually tuahu or alters comprised two main parts for divination. Tuahu-nui-o-rangi which represented life, and PukenuioPapa which represented death. The tohunga would sometimes prop stick, do his incantations. If the sticks on Tuahunuiorangi didn’t fall was seen as a good omen
Yes I must get hold of this book. Most of the period that I am covering Tamihana was a wee boy,. I have to be careful reading these accounts as they get swayed by time and the desire to have their ancestors look good. Others have recommended it also, but have heaps of reading on my plate at the moment.
@@kiwicodger Mm I just like to keep in mind the New Zealand Company and the Crown had their own best interests in their accounts too. I think it’s a very complex relationship, that between the Crown and Maori, though nonetheless I think there is a lot of importance in that relationship itself- to what it means to have a place, a state, built on that relationship.
I was sponsored down there to live stream a tournament, managed to wangle extra day and a half to drone Pā. Did Onawe, Takapuneke and Kaiapohia. It was a tight visit alas. Hope all is well with you.
@@kiwicodger all good understand :) All well down here just cold mornings. Just a question what was the reference for paepae hamiti outside the Kaiapohia pa as per the graphics? The reason I ask is this would be very unusual next to a water supply for kai.
@@ricklaw7633 No reference used, assumptions made. Practically this is only solution. Interested to hear where you think they might have been in such a large Pā. (Paepae Hamuti is stick they held onto for support I believe)
@@kiwicodger Early pa and Villages had paepae (latrines) which served individual houses or small groups of people inside the pa. In hilltop pā, paepae were commonly built on the side of the hill well away from other buildings as you have described. The old people were very careful not to pollute the water supplies as this was for drinking and kai. Paepae Hamuti sticks which if you google you will see but they are still a big question mark.
@@ricklaw7633 Water collection areas are indicated on MacDonalds map as being on the west side. So as mentioned I have put toilets on east side, or downstream from water collection areas. Where do you think they were? Not sure what you mean by big question mark re pae hamuti?
I’m only 5th generation and am learning so much from this Codger. Thank you
I lived in Rangiora for a few years and visited Kaiapo several times during my time there but was unaware of it's rich history, or the Pa for that matter. So I found this episode very interesting indeed, great work as usual.
Great video! I grew up and live less than a kilometre away and I’ve driven past many times, but never stopped. I knew there was once a pa there but had no idea it’s significance, I’m going to go have a walk around tomorrow evening. Thank you :)
Get the book out of the Library 'Kaiapohia, the story of a seige' by James West Stack. Then visit it again knowing two fascinating stories that led to the Pā's destruction, cheers
respect
@@kiwicodger Thank you, I will :)
Excellent vid. Love the 3D graphics, really gives a feel for these once bustling Pa.
it was well done...gave me shivers
Awesome work. Love to see you do one on Tauwhare pā in Ohiwa (Ohope/Whakatane), one day♥️💛💚
I visited the Tauwhare Pā in March 2021. Its an excellent complex ...of course I droned it. I shall see if there is a story that needs to be told about this Pā and its people, or do you know of one?
@@kiwicodger Yes there is a beautiful story I'm sure you will love. Long story short, about how a relationship between a whakatohia lady and a ngatiawa man from Tauwhare pā had a baby that when her jealous man from whakatohia came with all the wakas full of warriors to war for her, she stood and held the baby and threatend to drop it off the cliff if they fight. The war party turned around and that famous event United whakatohia and ngatiawa to this day. Very dull way I just told the story I gave it no justice at all lol, but it is easy to find someone in whakatane who would love to work with you on it... Oh love your reo♥️💛💚. I will try find a contact for you. Might be a good one for ya because it is very accessible. There are many stories in that area because many tribes from around that area all used Ohiwa as their pantry for Kai. Love your work.
Cheers for your reply....alas, this series is on the Musket Wars, not Musket wars love stories :)...although I did enjoy your gem of a story above. I looked up Tauwhare Pā in Ron Crosby's Musket Wars but its not mentioned. Good for the people of Tauwhare Pā, but alas no major battles there...please prove Ron wrong and we'll do an episode!
@@kiwicodger absolutley agree, I forgot this is a separate series on musket wars, I love it how it is forget my comment. Maybe one day in another series of stories and events. There was no musket war at Tauwhare pā sorry completely different time line.👍🏽
Te Rauparaha was a real menace to southern Maoridom.
Wai Pounamu would never be the same again....what Hongi did to the North Island from Whangarie to Roturua, Te Rauparaha did to the Horowhenua all the way to the middle of the South Island. He definitely was a real menace!
@@kiwicodger Yup two peas in a pod, also I would like to point out that I heard from somewhere but I’m not entirely sure but wasn’t the name Kaiapohia Te Rauparahas victory slur made about Kaiapoi after its fall. I think it mocked the meaning from the pilling of food (Kaiapoi) to the Pilling of Bodies (Kaiapohia) to eat.
Yes I have come across similar writing about Kaiapoi/Kaiapohia. The monument on site was instigated by James West Stack and he opened and dedicated the monument. The inscription has the Pā site as Kaiapohia, he was fluent in Te Reo and intimate with Ngai Tahu in the area. I find it impossible to think that he got it wrong, hence my use of Kaiapohia.
@@kiwicodger Oh alright interesting well I trust your research more than mine lol.
Matua Kiwi you have outdone yourself as always
This is an Impressive representation. You have given us a small glimpse of the relatable human side of history, something that is easy to forget .Keep up the good work codger! .
Fantastic presentation. Thank you for bringing this history back to us in this era to appreciate.
Hi Codger you might find this interesting. In Herries Beattie's 'Tikao Talks' Teone Taare Tikau, the last Ngai Tahu tohunga is adamant that Kaiapoi pa was never called Kaiapohia. From page 123 ... "Now I want you to clearly understand the name was never Kaiapohia. That name is purely a North Island invention, and was first used by a Ngati Awa tohunga, who made a song at Waikanae when Te Rauparaha was coming south, and in what you might call a burst of poetical frenzy he lengthened out the word "Kaiapoi." The new form caught on in the North, although it does not make sense nor agree with the naming by Turakautahi; no self-respecting South Islander would use it."
I am open as to what the correct name for the Pā may be. JW Stack who wrote 'Kaiapohia, the story of a Seige' (published 1893) used Pita Te Hori as his main source. Pita was born around 1810 and is said to have been at the battle at Kaipohia when the Pā fell. Teone Taare Tikao was born about 1850, his father and uncle were taken captive at Kaiapohia and taken north, then freed after the ToW. Teone is said to have provided Stack with much info on Ngai Tahu also. So really it comes down to who Stack thought was closer to the mark and re the name he has gone with Kaiapohia, which must have been what Pita went with, although that is an extrapolation.
If there is a reliable source today from Ngai Tahu who can argue this matter it would be good if they added to this thread.
@@kiwicodger Te Rauparaha named it Kaiapohia after eating some of my relations after his successful siege. A pretty reliable source well there are two of them, is that the place name on highway 1 says Kaiapoi Pa which you can see on google maps and also the plain fact that the large town of Kaiapoi just south of there is called Kaiapoi not Kaiapohia. But also poi means to swing or throw which makes sense with kai which is food. To swing food to this one place. Calling it Kaiapohia totally destroys this as being the place of the throwing or swinging of food. So it has to be Kaiapoi when looking at the fact that the Pa was a central place where they gathered to share the food. I see this weak argument on the internet that two testimonials were ignored by many but accepted by some authors from Waruwarutu who was a boy during the time of the siege and Tikao who was born in 1950 with both adamant that it was Kaiapoi and not Kaiapohia. Well hello as if the name of the Pa was never ever mentioned again. It would have been hot topic among Ngai Tahu for years. Did Stack ask Pita Te Hori what the meaning of Kaiapohia was? It doesn't seem so Yet Kaiapoi goes perfectly with the swinging of food to one place
@@craigkennett6226 The truth is long lost to us now. It really depends on which Tohanga you wnt to believe. Pita Te Hori has been honoured by Ngai Tahu by having their main building in Christchurch called Pita Te Hori. However I am open to changing my preference if someone can come up with some great argument, back by references.
@@kiwicodger okay I'll just stick to all the common sense. It comes in handy sometimes like the things I already posted. We all know Turakautahi made it the main place for a food base so kaiapoi makes way more sense than kaiapohia which you nor Pita Te Hori give any meaning to. What does kaiapohia mean? We know what Kaiapoi means and it fits the description of the Pa. A place to swing food to as the main food base for Ngai Tahu
Some old Maori guys told me when I was a kid that it meant STACK /group of bodies for cooking! / eating...yeah....more than75 years back!
Thanks again for another graphic and visual episode, Your telling of our History is so absorbing. Cheers
wow. your reo pronunciations have come a long way, 🎉🎉
tip; te is pronounced tear said fast 👍💯
And Tōhunga - the -hu- in Tōhunga is a -u- not a -a-, it's not Tōhanga if that makes sense👍🏻, I love his mahi I didn't want to correct him on such a little couple of things when his mahi is magnificent. Love the way you addressed it, nice.
Cheers team, my Te Reo is a work in progress. Happy for these suggestions to come my way.
Justin Smith, big shout out to him for his assistance. also.
Great presentation. The 3D graphics really assist in appreciating the layout and fortifications of the pa. Was there artistic license in the way you laid out the whares in orderly rows or is there evidence to show that this was a typical arrangement? Looking forward to the follow up postings.
Hi Onslow, alas it is my limited skills with the 3D package, Blender, that has everything in rows and columns. I created a centre road through the Pā and assumed one hapu was on one side the other on the other. This Pā would have changed over its 125 years of existence, I feel that the initial layout would have been more haphazard, then evolved and some structure and system would have developed for efficiency based on experience... we can only surmise now.
Thank you Codger! VERY informative! Good Job! I am another Ol Codger & despite my living a few (80) miles south I have never walked this site Wish you had shown the Impressive Lim,estone Column (mt Somers (KIKI) limestone ,its MUCH better than Oamaru soft muck) It commemorates the aweful demise of the Pa. Thank you also for the factual recreation . Really appreciate the sticking to facts rather than wandering off into woke wacky Woo, as is the tendency these days. We ,especially the young, tend to be trying to over romanticise past history . All history is pretty GRIM (just get a Toothache!) but the real gritty reality is hard for folks (like todays) who have NEVER been cold or hungry to really appreciate the past we have sprung from. ----I shall be going through MORE of your material! Thank you
After the Elizabeth Affair I shall be covering Te Rauparaha's siege of Kaiapohia, another turning point in South Island History. I shall look into Mt Somers Kiki, this is the first time I've heard of it.
Yes people of today think the world was always like this, it makes you shake your head. Cheers
Tēnā koe Matua, thank you for this and toue other videos. I whakapapa to Kaiapoi and it is so nice to have such good footage of it to look to and learn from.
By any chance do you know anything about the Pāhia Pā that were made in Southland following the invasion on Kaiapoi?
Ngā mihi nui!
Is that my favourite Ngawai from Oakura? I have done a little research and can't find anything about the Pāhia Pa. Can you tell me more.
E you cpvered ngatikahungunu? Over Gisborn way? My ansestors. Id like to know if they were part of hone's human smorgasbord
Check out episodes 50 and 51. It wasn't only Hongi who was at the dinner table. I will do more on Ngati Kahungungu and Te Wera (Ngapuhi) in the future.
Great work. I enjoyed this episode providing a glimpse into the life and economics of a community. I imagine a lot of time went into the 3-d imaging.
Glad you enjoyed it! Yep the graphics are taking too much time but I’m still in the learning phase,! it’s limiting my output, I’ll have to review things re graphics, still , enjoying the learning at the moment.
Thanks again codger I always read about this pa in musket wars & to see it like u show it something else..u don't let us down either may visit that place myself 1 day
Went there for hikoi ..definitely a long way from kapiti & kawhia didn't plan it but ended up that way should be a must stop for any 1 visiting waipounamu ..west coast is something else wat a video this is tho makes u proud to be from our beautiful whenua
Gosh they were clever
There should be huge descriptive monuments at these locations.
There used to be a staircase arangement that people could climb up and get a high view of the Pā, there was signage etc, but then vandals and age took there toll and all that is gone. Certainly this is a treasure.
This Famous Pa is only half a mile down a shingle road off highway one. No bull still a shingle road and just over the back from them is the flash modern Pagasus settlement. I think it's colonial racism
Nothing to do with "colonialism OR "racism" .do what you can to live NOW do not try to rewrite history--- read the terrible fall of this Pa , then work to make a better world today. Maori history --like ALL history was mostly cruel full of slavery domination torture cruelty & mayhem! ,women got the worst too .don't rewrite the past ..do BETTER!@@craigkennett6226
Usually tuahu or alters comprised two main parts for divination. Tuahu-nui-o-rangi which represented life, and PukenuioPapa which represented death. The tohunga would sometimes prop stick, do his incantations. If the sticks on Tuahunuiorangi didn’t fall was seen as a good omen
Yes I have read something along the lines of your comment. There were so many different Tohunga rituals, many particular to Iwi.
Awesome mahi as always codger greatly appreciated 👍
Fantastic. Loved that. Brilliant work.
and to think that they all, except a few were slaughtered..a sad and sobering place to visit..thanks for the vid/love it.
I have a feeling quite a few managed to escape, but certainly a lot didn't, but that's for another episode :)
Would highly reccomend He Pukapuka Tataku I Nga Mahi a Te Rauparaha Nui (A Record of the Life of the Great Te Rauparaha). a great read.
I would also recommend ruclips.net/video/xS5NddAkUgs/видео.html RNZ's NZ Wars: Stories of Wairau | Documentary
Yes I must get hold of this book. Most of the period that I am covering Tamihana was a wee boy,. I have to be careful reading these accounts as they get swayed by time and the desire to have their ancestors look good. Others have recommended it also, but have heaps of reading on my plate at the moment.
Not a huge fan of Mihi or Vincent, but will watch it to see if they are still one-eyed. Also its around 1840+
@@kiwicodger Mm I just like to keep in mind the New Zealand Company and the Crown had their own best interests in their accounts too. I think it’s a very complex relationship, that between the Crown and Maori, though nonetheless I think there is a lot of importance in that relationship itself- to what it means to have a place, a state, built on that relationship.
@@blind377 there’s always 2 sides to a story, as long as both are presented then that’s all one can ask.
Was shame we didnt meet up. I vist Kaiapohia often this was great to see from the air thank you. :)
I was sponsored down there to live stream a tournament, managed to wangle extra day and a half to drone Pā. Did Onawe, Takapuneke and Kaiapohia. It was a tight visit alas. Hope all is well with you.
@@kiwicodger all good understand :) All well down here just cold mornings. Just a question what was the reference for paepae hamiti outside the Kaiapohia pa as per the graphics? The reason I ask is this would be very unusual next to a water supply for kai.
@@ricklaw7633 No reference used, assumptions made. Practically this is only solution. Interested to hear where you think they might have been in such a large Pā. (Paepae Hamuti is stick they held onto for support I believe)
@@kiwicodger Early pa and Villages had paepae (latrines) which served individual houses or small groups of people inside the pa. In hilltop pā, paepae were commonly built on the side of the hill well away from other buildings as you have described. The old people were very careful not to pollute the water supplies as this was for drinking and kai. Paepae Hamuti sticks which if you google you will see but they are still a big question mark.
@@ricklaw7633 Water collection areas are indicated on MacDonalds map as being on the west side. So as mentioned I have put toilets on east side, or downstream from water collection areas. Where do you think they were? Not sure what you mean by big question mark re pae hamuti?
looks cold and wet
Keeping warm back in the day must have been a full time job!