Pecan Trees are NOT Doing Good! | Growing Pecans in AZ
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
- It's been a while since we gave everyone an update on the pecans and right now they do not look good. While nearly all of our trees of the same age are multiple times larger and producing, these trees are on life support. Today we're discussing what may be the cause.
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George L here. My Dad and Grandfather grew pecans in Texas. Grandfather had a quarter acre of them in dry Central Texas with no irrigation and they thrived. Dad had some in the back yard in Houston where it rains all the time and had nothing but trouble between the web worms and the squirrels. They have acres of pecans on irrigation in the Fort McDowell Yavapai reservation they thrive there too. Go figure.
And, there are hundreds of acres of pecan groves here in Cochise County, AZ... "it's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma," aka conundrum 😂
We're still hopeful. The groves I've seen here in Arizona have all been on irrigated properties and seeing how much water these are taking I can only assume that's part of our issue.
They also use zinc to supplement the trees' need for it. The high Ph locks it up. I think they use a wet spray on the leaves. We use zinc sulfate in the garden because sulfur keeps the minerals available longer.
Both of you truly inspire me every day. ❤ I'm buying my first duck after I graduate in the fall of next year. 😅 Nervous and happy.
Ducks are a special kind of challenge, but they're a lot of fun to watch. They're also very loud!!
Thanks, folks, for your videos👌. I love the way you work as a team. I tried pecans in Anza California but failed. For my areas, the nut trees, jujubes, figs, mulberry and apricots do very well. I bought a bunch of pecans but they all failed
Well, shoot. Sorry to hear about those pecans. We're still holding out hope for these guys, but like you we can't complain with all of the other fruit trees that do well for us here.
One thing that kind of caught my eye on those pecans is the lack of companion plantings around them. Being right on the edge of make-or-break, I can't help but think that they need some company in the form of a lower-growing native plant that'd help break up the soil, increase the microrhizal fungi community, etc. You need something that can tolerate those conditions, but that's still a lot of options. I'd opt for Yaupon Holly so you have a good crop for your bees to feed on as well as getting a supply of caffeine-laden leaves to sell as tea in the shops. Of course, you might also benefit from one of the many native grasses like Western Gama grass that has the famous deep-rooting nature and would give you a crop that's both great mulch and great food for the animals. Since neither requires a ton of water, what little they get from the irrigation that's not being used by the pecan would be more than sufficient.
Those are great suggestions and we're trying to figure out how much of that we can legally do at this point. We have a limit on how much of the property we can keep "green" and we're not far off from that. Now, companion planting ground cover within the existing rings is something we may come back to. It's funny, up until a few months ago I had never heard of Yaupon Holly and now we've had several folks suggest that one!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm I mentioned the Yaupon a few months back when you were replacing some trees in the front and wanted an evergreen for appearances sake.
I think it would be a good option if for no other reason than it covers a lot of bases for your operation. Of course, how much tea would you realistically drink? Mostly, it'd be for the bees and just looking good unless you tried to make a special EoNF blend for sale locally. That could be neat!
I had no idea there was a law on how much land you could have 'green'. That sounds insane, especially if you're using native plants that are supposed to be there and don't require tons of irrigation. Thankfully, the government knows best so we don't have to question their wisdom.
Loved your video, laughed my arse off, the kittens are so funny, love it!
Glad you enjoyed this one. The cats are really getting used to being on camera and they love the attention!
Every time I see you both "open up" the farm every morning I admire the whole setup there. It's even more appreciated having been around for enough years to witness older ideas being replaced by the new. Re the Pecans: one of the comments here was really interesting. I wonder how much your water bill is there. I thought all your water was town supply. Where is the well water on your land? I'll have to go back and check the earlier videos.
We're on well water here, so we don't have a direct water bill. Of course, it does take electricity, but we run irrigation at night when the cost of electric is lower.
When my mother-in-law was alive, she had a huge pecan tree in her front yard. Never found it's mate. She lived downtown Phoenix, around 20th Street and McDowell. She had irrigation. I was lucky all her children were too lazy to hull the nuts, so I got the whole harvest. The only other thing I can remember is that it fruited every year, but every other year was a good year and every other year was a lean year. But even in the lean years I had plenty of nuts for Thanksgiving and Christmas pies. Keeping my 🤞 that you'll find a species that does well on your farm. Like with everything else, sometimes you just got to let the bad ones go.😢. 💕🌞🌵😷
What a wonderful memory around that pecan tree. We're still holding out hope given the investment on these. Hopefully our grandkids will be climbing these trees one day!
Dwayne and Lori you guys are awesome 😊. I have faith in your pecan saving abilities ❤. Have a great week.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. We're hopeful as well!
Our grandparents have a small mature Pecan grove here in central Arizona, (Zone 9b 2,000 ft. elevation) that we have sort of inherited the maintenance of... and we have been giving them high nitrogen fertilizer 2-3 times a year and supplemental zinc during nut production to try and boost the production of this small 4-tree grove. They are 30-40-feet tall now and we definitely do not give them the amount of water that the grandparents used to. There is a well near the trees, and they used to surface flood the entire dirt field regularly, which would evaporate quickly with no ground cover. They seemed to think if the water was free, it was okay to pump copious amounts of it and flood the entire field, which took a massive amount of water in the desert, and just didn't feel like a very responsible use of water to us. So we have mulched to the drip line heavily with free wood chip and cow manure we get locally and put them on drip irrigation that is much more targeted. Should be all good things that make the trees much happier, right? Well, even so, the trees are still not as full and lush as they used to be when they were being given a lake worth of water on the regular. You are so right... they just want an incredible amount of water.
Thank you for this comment. It confirms what we suspected was the case with these trees. We are starting to foliar spray zinc as several folks here suggested to do, but as you're seeing these are just very heavy water usage plants. Ugh..
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm No problem. On the bright side, it is all worth it when we get buckets worth of pecans every year around the holidays, just in time to make holiday pecan pie, and store bag after bag of pecans that we snack on fresh, add to our breakfast granola mix which my wife has for breakfast every day, and bring to grandma to enjoy in the nursing home. Pecans are legacy trees. And we are very glad that they planted them for us to inherit. But dang, that water use is off the charts.
Thanks for the informative update. Loved the satisfying ASMR crunch of the beetle. Was that Lori? 😀
That was me (Duane). Lori cringes every time I do it, but it's just so satisfying!!
Happy Sunday! God bless!
Thank you and happy Sunday to you as well!!
I noticed with the trees the leaves are doing a taco effect if you will. It's where they fold upwards looking like a taco shell. That is a sign of dehydration. All trees need about 24 to 36 inches in depth of water with a water run time of 2 hours barely minimum. The goal is deep saturation with several days without water. Too frequent of water invites disease and pests that can wipe out an orchard. The idea is to simulate flood irrigation so you can skip several days in-between. It takes roughly 6-8 hours for flood irrigation to absorb into the soil depending of course. The best option is as long as possible in every sitting the tree is watered. Watering for a few minutes is only surface water. The water that is at the surface is boiling hot. It would be like offering someone a hot cup of tea on a hot day. Also if there is any wind, what you thought was watered will be drawn back out and dries up really quickly. So offering each tree a deep well for them to drink from will be like offering a refreshing cool drink on a hot day. If at all possible, it would be a good idea to make sure the root flare of the tree is noticeable at the surface of the soil. No one likes tripping over roots but it helps with air flow and keeps the trees from suffocating.
Thankfully, the pecan trees appear to have nice new growth so that's a good sign. Helping your trees now before next summer will greatly impact production. I hope that helps with the issue you were speaking on with the pecan trees.
Thanks for all the great notes!
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I purchased a pecan tree from Stark Bros. it was whatever was marginally recommended for my area here in Oregon... it's two years old approximately maybe 3. It was a 2 gal size if I remember correctly and after two seasons of the deer stripping leaves off we finally have it protected by fence... I was thinking maybe in 3-4 years I would see if it was worth it, but then I read it takes 10 years! SO I am a lot less interested now... ugh! My plan is to be living in Mexico or MAYBE AZ by then.. I do not like Oregon winters! Thank you for sharing your PECAN adventures, I really do LOVE them!! When I was staying in Weatherford, TX area I bought wonderful Pecans at the Farmer's market... So they probably do best over there?
Ugh, that is just so frustrating and we know just how you feel. We're still hopeful for these, but hindsight we would have skipped them.
Not a single bareroot Pecan I've tried made it. I bought the Western Schley and Wichita potted trees from Whitefield, and they're doing great. Some dieback on the Schley, but it's 12ft tall on year 3. I have flood though.
Thank you for the notes on what you've been experiencing. It sounds like our assumption on the water is part of the issue. Do you supplement Zinc at all? We're going to add that to the regimen after having it suggested here a few times.
They have a deep running tap root & likely would enjoy being spritzed with water, being from regions with high humidity.
No doubt they would enjoy that as well. I imagine they would be happy with water in pretty much any form!!
Use your groundwater while you can buck eyes gonna grab it pretty soon
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I have Sherwood jujube and they are very tasty fresh.
Those are a very good Jujube. We had one on the old property and it was also a very consistent producer!
Pecan's they heaviest zinc feeder, they feed 2-6 times a year via foliar.
They monitor, spray by looking st leaves, leaf burn, more foliar zinc.
Ive spent hours at the farms at Eloy to learn, my tree are thriving as pre zinc times.
I've read a bit about zinc as well, but didn't realize it was a foliar feed they were applying!!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Zinc is one of the hardest micro nutrients to soil feed.
Even in the fruit, grape production in Canada we foliar it.
I'm actually getting a 2.5 gal jug up here, it's just so readily available. I'll share some.
Study about it. My leaf samples showed lack, even though soil was adequate. PH uptake issues, same in Canada our location over 7.3 PH and zic gts tied up.
That what I had in AZ too, also recall the twins with stone fruits comment and Zinc I left this spring. Zinc is the twinning issue, my trees don't twin now.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm I'll send you a pic, we use a CalMag mix, not sure what your soil test shows, mine was good on every, but high on Boron toxic high, leaf samples showed that too. High on Calcium, well dahh Calichci galore.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm there is a farm store that Whitfil garden show talks about and uses, Mesa I think that he gets some of his operations chems at.
@@johac7637 yeah, we went ahead and picked up a Zinc Sulfate from Amazon to see how it does. Reading up on on it, looks like timing is important with application starting at leaf break and through fruit set. We're going to apply now to see if there's any effect and then pick it back up in the Spring.
They need shade sail
Summer in az nowadays is record heat, it just cooks everything
The issue with pecans is their water needs, which are substantially more than our other trees. I'll link to a video we did here on how we keep all of our 180 trees in full sun with no issues;
ruclips.net/video/DKR4aRpd5vY/видео.html
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm theyd need less water with shade. These days we dont have normal weather, its way too frikin hot, its over 105 for a week forcast today here
Thanks for the update guys! I'm considering now either ditching the pecan idea or just waiting until watering is a less.... extreme physical demand. I may also have a chat with the lady at the local nursery, as all her potted pecans are doing absolutely stellar.
I will say, we would only do this again with potted trees. That is the tree that is doing the best and losing so many bare root trees cost us a fortune!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm I feel that. Even the smallish ones at the nursery are over $100 each.
@@estyria777 That is expensive!
Would walnut trees work there? Would they be less expensive? Their nuts are just as delicious.
@@teresamexico309 The problem is in getting them. Both walnuts and pecans can't be shipped to Texas, and sourcing them can be problematic. The walnut as well has a reputation for prohibiting the growth of other trees/plants under and around it.
@@estyria777 Too bad not being able to get the nut trees in Tx I guess that is due to some quarantine.
I do have 2 walnut trees and there are weeds and some grass around them, just today I did remove them from one of my trees I wish it were true and walnut tree would not need weeding.
So I mulched around my 4-5 trees (granted I planted them all in the last two years) and I’m seeing tiny roots come up into the mulch. Do you see that and if so how do you handle it? Do you pull the mulch away in the fall/winter? On the other hand I’m seeing worms and bacteria and such adding great nutrients from the mulch breaking down. So free fertilizer.
We have seen the same, especially with younger trees. We do pull the mulch back at each fertilizing session and still see some of the smaller feeder roots, but we don't see any of the larger roots.
Have y’all researched the type of fertilization they need? I know they take a lot of zinc! Everywhere I’ve lived I’ve had Pecans and even planted some! Hope the do better in the coming years
We have not applied Zinc to them yet, but reading it's a necessary supplement for these trees. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm yessir you’re welcome.
Fig Eater beettles, hang a 5 gallon bucket, 3" water, hang a piece of Watermelon rind with ome red above the bucket, they drop to get airborne, ooops in bucket. Ive caught eith 4 buckets a full bucket in a day. My only beetle solution.
Ooh, now we need to give that a shot. Free duck feed with those things!
They also like fermented pineapple skins and some molases in water.
@@teresamexico309 have you trapped them too?
@@johac7637 Not myself but a friend of mine is an entomologist and that is what he recommends to get those beatles. They are not a big problem for my trees so I let them fly around and they place their eggs at the starting of the raining season in the soil. As for the figs, the birds get them first, they own them, sometimes I get a few to taste.
Another friend of mine has a problem with the larvae of those beatles o maybe other type, those larvae eat the grass and she is going to place the traps with the pineapple and molasses as well next season, right now the larvae are already buried in the soil of her lawn.
@@teresamexico309 the larvae of the fig eater seem to live in woodchip mulched areas, they aren't getting roots there, I'm going to try " milkey spore" as the lawn June beetles are controlled with it
I've tried beneficial nematodes, even in an enclosed confined caged area that I caught, transfered, the figeaters aren't affected, my only success has been the watermelon 🍉 rind, it worked for me.
wood chips and bigger holes. cactus and moringa tree companions to establish ...
Wood chips are always a good thing around here.
Nothing kills a water table like a bunch of pecan farmers
I have to admit, there may be something to that statement!
Where did you get your trees, any local? I seem to have trouble getting nut trees here in AZ from out of state growers...won't ship to AZ. I got my almond trees from Calif
Our nut trees were from local sources. RSI Growers usually does some almond trees (All-in-One) and the last pecan tree was from Richard's Garden Center in N. Phoenix. RSI grafts onto local root stock, but there are not any local root stocks for pecans that I'm aware of.
Your farm is so neat so are you guys, don't you get dirty? :)
If you could see me when I finish my gardening for the day, I look like a "polvorón" a type of bread covered with sugar that seems dust (polvo).
Greetings!.
This time of year we don't spend a lot of time outside (out before sunrise and in before 9am) and keep projects to a minimum. That helps keep us from getting to dirty.
Where did you guys buy the pecans tree from? If you don’t mind me asking please
The Western Schley was from Richard's Garden Center. I don't recall the name of the nursery for the 2 bare root trees, but I'll be honest, I would never do a bare root pecan tree again. We lost 4 of 6 and they are VERY expensive!!
When you soak the trees with an open hose (no nozzle), how long do you soak it for?
Lori said she doesn't keep track, but no more than about 5 minutes. It's also the only time the tree gets water right up against the trunk. The hope there is it will help drive the taproot through the caliche as we're thinking that could be part of the problem.
Has there been any difference in rainfall or humidity since growing your trees/plants/grass? I have read that with increase of gas exchanges, trees can bring in rain clouds and water vapor?
A friend of mine who is a scientist commented in a gathering that analyzing data from an area in México with cactus orchards they found a correlation between the increase of the surface of the orchards with an increase in rainfall per year.
I can't say we've seen any difference in rainfall, but when we do get rain the soil does a great job of absorbing the water. We have very little standing water on the farm within hours of the rain and there are areas surrounding us where it can take a day or more to evaporate.
inexpensive wind block would reduce water loss on those pecans.
Funny, we were hoping these would be a wind block!!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm they will be once their roots get deep enough. You block their wind now, they will block your wind later.
I suggest lattice work or a piece of old refrigerator box cardboard stapled to a couple of stakes. Be sure not to make a solar oven accidentally by remaining aware of the sun's position in the sky and most places have a prevailing wind to block on one side although you could step away an extra foot and block on several sides. You still want airflow, just not so much. You could even put something overhead to block part of the day's sun if you really want to be kind. Block during the hottest part of the day, between 2pm and 5pm or so.
❤
😉
Did I miss a pig delivery vid⁉ By the way, how many permanent tenants do you have now⁉🤔🤔🤔
I'll have to double check the count, but it's around 90 or so. That will change drastically with the arrival of the broilers next month!
@@EdgeofNowhereFarmbroilers and meat pigs are not permanent tenants🥓🥓🥓
@@slamboy66 good point! I believer we're at 55 permanent tenants. Could be off by a chicken or two!
Question from N. NV....have you experienced many 'chem trails' in your skies this year? We have up until about mid-June. And I swear, what dropped from the sky (yes slight snow in late May) was fake snow, as it had large, salt-like particles in the puddle of the melting snow....and had a foamy rim around the snow puddle. Seems this year we've had more failures with some of our plants (for no real reason) and some troubles with leaves and plants just failing from last year's planting (roses mostly). We suspect (we are on a well too), there was some chemical in those fake snows the chem trails (from jets in the sky) making us have wet weather. Do you think these fake-snow chemicals have changed the nature of our native 'soil' up here? and seeped into our groundwater? I was told, that those particles from the sky are potassium, for cloud-seeding to make precipitation? I think I read, potassium binds up some of the minerals in the soil and deprives plant roots of necessary mineral nutrients. Also from observation, our 'native' weeds changed species this year to a different type of plant that we've never seen before? I've seen videos where other gardeners noted failures in their crops last year and were puzzled why. So it's not just me? So do you think, this could have happened to you?
Thats scary, considering all the things i have been reading about the food shortages coming and china buying all the farmland in usa
@@AnarchAnjelFood shortages where? Here in the US there’s so much food waste and farmers often dump tons of food in our landfills. We also created a system of privatization that favors wealthy investors over the health and security of their own people, allowing other countries to buy land and corporations here.
@@elasticsynapsis9330 ok..
I can't speak to any of that directly, but the only significant change this year has been the much later seasons with the very late frosts we had this Spring. Whether or not that's a result of what you're describing I wouldn't know.
Potassium is a macronutrient for plants, so it is needed for the plants/tree to grow well.
The "inexistent" stripes on the skies are dumping Barium, strontium, radium, aluminum, etc and they have negative effects on people's health and they contaminate water bodies and the soil as well (geoengineering). When ever I see those "inexistent" stripes I try to keep inside although some days I have things to do in the orchard/garden but I limit my time outside.
Regarding to climate, this year yellow peaches in my home orchard have gotten a beautiful red blush (never before they had) it might be because of the increased solar intensity.
As for the pecans, perhaps too much sun radiation and atmospheric contaminants are not helping them to grow well.
Taste so good.
The Jujube?
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Pecans
pecan trees AZ = SWALES. Ours grew fantastic in South Phoenix. we never watered or irrigated but our pecan grove was right next to an irrigation ditch.
Yeah, that irrigation is what we're really missing I think. We do have plans for some additional earthworks back there to help trap what moisture we can, but that regular really deep watering is our challenge.
I feel like the pecans are lonely. They have no protection, I've seen 30 year old pecans in Phoenix but usually in place's surrounded by walls or trees and or flood irrigation neighborhoods, which also have an abundance of other trees.
There is definitely something to that. The lack of heavy irrigation is definitely not helping.
Birds will eat the Beatles…..but cats ate the birds….lol
The cycle of life!! 😂
PECANS = WATER 💦 WATER ,WATER!!!
That is definitely what we're seeing here. Lots and lots of water!
there comes a point, especially living in the desert, where water usage is a priority...this must not be taken for granted...the amount of water you are using to raise, feed, and 'grow' animals for consumption is not sustainable or acceptable...short term or long term...economic rewards can not be justified when water consumption must be the priority...also, long term health damage to the human body does not justify the consumption of animals even without consideration to the excess waste of water...the ideal diet for the human body is 'fresh fruits and vegetables in season preferably locally grown and not fractured'...anything else, long term, will 'force' the human body to create disease symptoms in an attempt to heal itself...the over consumption of water, even with short term 'rewards' is NOT sustainable or acceptable...let go of the conditioning of societies insane mediocrity and begin to simplify while working with nature...it all begins yesterday!!!
We have tried both vegetarian and vegan diets and did not do well on them. Blood work was a mess (high blood sugar, low b-vitamins) and we did not feel well for months on end (physically and emotionally). We won't go back down that road again.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm vegetarian and vegan 'diets' are just that..diets...comparative physiology shows us that we are made to live on 'fresh fruits and vegetables in season preferably locally grown and not fractured'...people choose how much they compromise away from how we are physically made and with those choices our immune system is continually tested until it breaks down and the medical profession puts a title to it...still the excess use of water for economic reward, and, food that we are not made to absorb, digest, and eliminate is not acceptable, especially in a desert environment...and, especially today!!!
@@timothygaar2310 well written and we clearly disagree on this. I have been studying the human diet for the past 20 years due to some serious health issues in my past which I have been able to overcome with the diet we follow. As such, I am strongly persuaded that you are incorrect. Thank you for the discussion though. As for how we use water on the farm, that is debatable as well, but we won't come to an agreement on this. Cheers.
Beijing can grow this tree.
I did not know these trees were grown in Beijing! You learn something new each day. 🤔
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm Beijing‘s climate is similar to Philadelphia.
Mycorihzae can help with water hungry plants by slowly helping roots rake up mire water. Perhaps a myco/compost tea woukd help the pecans
I'm sure that wouldn't hurt. We're going to start with a zinc foliar every few weeks based on a lot of feedback here, so it wouldn't be difficult to add that as well.
@@EdgeofNowhereFarm its so valuable, you can grow tonnes of it for cheap with a small starter bag. Its also extremely valuable for transplanting when applied directly to the root zone in avoiding transplant shock and getting early explosive growth. I spray all my root zones with it and 5:2 humic/kelp and have lost only a few trees vs my old rate of over 50%.