THIS... is the kind of shooting experience I'd like to have. No macho, hypetrain, showing off but a very neutral, straightforward and semi-professional show of the capabilities of the arm as wel als the shooter's. I like that. Appreciated.
I would LOVE to see the opposite of this. It would be awesome to see what you guys could do with a poverty pony PSA mid-length 16" upper (around $219) and the cheapest PSA standard M4 lower (around $129). For optics use the cheapest variable magnification optics like the $80 Monstrum 1-4x tactical scope and for ammo, use cheap 55 grain Federal XM193 or perhaps Tula .223 steel cased 62 grain ammo if its windy. That I think would be interesting to the vast numbers of us po' folk who can't afford the fancy AR's but who would LOVE to see what experienced shooters can do with such a budget setup.
@@ryanpeck3377 Either way PSA's are dirty cheap. I actually just got an even cheaper LVPO than the Monstrum 1-4x I mentioned. I got a Center-Point 1-4x variable optic and I have to say that I'm loving it. Instead of the BDC marks like the Monstrum topic, it has just an etched circle and a dot that works well both illuminated or without illumination and is perfect for close range work. It's actually more like 1.5x on the lowest setting but I can still use it with both eyes open at close range. On the 4X setting it works great out to 200 yards but might be trickier for farther distances. But for the 9 Hole test, something like the Monstrum 1-4x scope would be better with the BDC markings and thin crosshairs.
@@wigon I had a psa mid length 16' in on a Anderson lower and Hornady ammo with the same scope as you and got .75 moa. Easily repeating.. a hell of a set up and I sold it.....
@@wwclay86 Nice. Yup I got 1.5 MOA with Monarch 55 grain soft point ammo and with Hornady Frontier 75 grain BTHP Match ammo, I got just under 1 MOA (around .90) using the cheapest PSA lower and a 1/7 twist 16" mid-length upper and that cheap center point LVPO that I mentioned. I'm surprised you sold yours. I'll definitely NOT sell mine as I'm super happy with mine. I don't even want change to a free-floated hand-guard as I don't want to screw around with the barrel harmonics. So far pressure on the hand guard doesn't seem to shift point of impact very much compared to when I rest it on its magazine with no pressure on the hand guard/barrel. Granted as the barrel heats up the groups do start to open up a bit, but I don't get too much shift thankfully and I'm gradually getting good at knowing where to hold as the barrel heats up. But for hunting it's that first shot from a cold barrel that matters to me most. What's cool is that judging from the massive damage shown on ballistic gel tests of those Hornady Frontier 75 grain BHTP rounds (from a 16" barrel), they should make both excellent rounds for hunting and for home defense. The price on that ammo is relatively budget friendly for match grade ammo. I can't wait to try this rifle out hog hunting. The optic I'm using should be perfect for that as I doubt I'll be making any shots past 100 yards. Now I just need to keep written down my optics adjustments (and then memorize it) for when I switch to the less expensive Monarch 55 grain soft point ammo for regular plinking.
I used the 416 as my service rifle in the Norwegian Army and I LOVE IT! we used almost the same build with a different scope and rail. we used a aimpoint red dot on it. but I stil managed a 14/15 on 400m test. so I would say the rifle is very usable for longer distance combat
@@podmonkey2501 Agreed. Unless it's slinging .308 as well. Still in this day and age with companies like POF making them lighter, with more features, and more affordable, HK really needs to go back to the drawing board on this one. And I'm an HK fan.
@@Maelstrom8 literally this. With the POF now being down to 7 pounds and only $2,000, there is zero excuses why a company like HK has a rifle that heavy. On the flip side of that, one of the reasons that HKs cost so much is because it is a NIGHTMARE to export them from Germany. Germany has some of the strictest gun laws in the EU, and getting those guns out of the country costs a fair amount, per weapon.
i think past like 1500$ you enter the realm of diminishing returns in performance of ARs...they do get better but not justifiably so for the increase in price...you're better off with a mid range option and buying more ammo to train with instead...
epic_schnitzel totally depends on the application. For competion, which is what most 'gucci' Ars are made for, the increase in price is defined worth it
I just bought an Aero Precision 308 AR 10. 1600 bucks with beefy muzzle brake, bipod and a snazzy magpul stock. Guy had a flashy 556 rifle with anodized everything, custom trigger job etc. 1800 bucks. Competition gun. At some point you're paying for aesthetics beyond performance.
@@jonathonbridges9625 Yeah but not all $2k guns are flashy. Sometimes it's materials or innovation. Or just the record of the company. Look at the MDR. Yes, it's a 308 battle rifle. You can get one for 1k. But you're also paying for an innovative design and other features. Personally I went with the M17S which was cheaper, but provided all the innovation I needed. Still it was around 2k.
ehh, something like KACs or LMTs are the exception I'd say, they feature actual changes to the essential parts of the gun (gas system, bolt, carrier, etc) that make a real difference you see KACs lasting 20,000, 30,000, 50,000, 70,000, even 100,000 round counts without major cleaning or repairs/part swaps, imagine trying that with a BCM or DD imo don't spend more than $1200 on one unless you get an actual improved build like a KAC or LMT. stuff like Colt, DD, BCM, etc are good builds, don't get me wrong I respect them, but I wouldn't pay more than $1200 for one.
Just a random comment on a triviality: Overall, really enjoyable, but I particularly like your intro's - the camera movement to behind the rifle, and then through the scope of the actual setup being fired is a simple, great intro and puts things into perspective straight away.
A scope cam would be a nice addition especially for the longer shots and on windy days. Also the audio in the last part had echoing effect... though might be a problem in my headphones.
The scope cam is something we're trying to integrate. However, for performance testing, it limits the shooter's ability (really to see as well) so we don't like to include it as part of the run. May try to include some shots that show hold overs/off as we progress.
@@9HoleReviews That makes sense. Showing even 1 or 2 shots past 300 yards I.E. One for 300, one for 350, etc. to show hold overs. Helps a lot for us PA guys who have a hard time finding ranges beyond 300 except for a few amish farm fields nearby lol. Thank you.
Excellent commentary on ammo too. I stack the 55gr FMJ deep and almost never plan on engaging more than 200. I keep plenty of 77gr SMK and TMK for shorties and long range.
@@Holret Better but not by much. Their M16A4 w/ ACOG (a worse optic fwiw) needed 25 rounds to complete the course. And Josh admitted in that video to pulling low on a few targets. So realistically, the two are nearly the same.
I have one (well, before the boating accident), and they are a very high quality piece of kit. I have (err, had) other ARs that are probably "just as good" (the song of those on a budget). But they are not THIS. It's like comparing a Vette to a 911 Turbo. These things are built like a swiss watch.
I had one and it shot better than I (with my old eyes) could. I zero'd the scope and was ringing a 12" steel plate at 300 yards with an entire magazine. Problem is, like you said, too front end heavy for me (My left shoulder isn't so good), so I sold it and bought an STG 77 - 40th anniversary AUG. THAT this is a ball too shoot!
I'd take it all day long over a DI - If the SHTF, I don't want to be fist fighting for Hoppe's, CLP, or Ballistol. Peacetime competition is one thing and the field can and usually is quite another thing.
I really enjoy your videos! Very informative and to the point. Being new to distance shooting I use your evaluations to help me decide on my next rifle and scope. Thanks for the great videos.
So here's some honest(but slightly biased) opinion. I carried an M27 for several years in the Marine Corps, and am considered by many to be a decent shot. Some of the amazingness with this gun was it's ability to squeeze(quite literally I'll say) extra accuracy out of crap m855 ammo. I've gotten sub moa groups on this weapon system basically every time i shot it on paper. And that accuracy persisted over several rifles over many years while we were shooting 1000's and even 10's of thousands of rounds through these barrels(remember that the military gets a different barrel though, chf with a tapered internal profile to the muzzle). This is also the only gun I've ever fired where i never had a single jam besides training with blanks, and that was once because we didn't have the correct blank firing adaptors for them initially. This is over the 5 different rifles i was issued between Hawaii and Japan. We were also able to push these out to around 650-700 meters on a known distance range, during the course which established the curriculum for the new Designated marksman course(they did away with the old one, which was taught with us being issued MK 12 rifles). During that time we could easily, and reliably make hits on man sized targets in some of the crappiest wind conditions you'll ever have on a range(kaneohe bay range is on the back side of this ocean cliff area and the shifts in wind were unbelievable). All of this with a 3.5X acog. This gun with an SDO and harris bipod was heavy for what it was, but so much lighter than the M249 and MK 12 which it replaced. And if i were ever asked what off the shelf weapon I'd take in to combat it would be that gun with the a5 enhancements, and either the same optic combo, or a good LPVO. I enjoyed carrying it, and would proudly carry one again. I wish they didn't cost so damn much, and I'd probably just go with an upper on a a really good lower(also with a Geissele trigger, Enjoyed the trigger but an ssa is still superior). But i do, mostly, think it's worth the money. I really do miss it.
You know, somehow I kinda expected a "and here is why the gun is actually garbage" at every turn of your post. But its good to hear the gun served you well! :D
@@termitreter6545 it really did. It's not like i didn't have a few complaints/criticisms. But the accuracy and reliability were amazing. Nearly pinnacle for the ar platform if you ask me. But im sure there are still great advancements around the corner.
9:52 I was just about to bring up the InRange mud tests of the standard “DI” AR and a piston gun and found the “DI” gun to be more reliable because vented gas to help clean out mud and debris.
@Paul Lo Cicero That's exactly the point though. People keep saying these piston systems are more reliable but if that dust cover is open, there's a good chance it'll get fouled up. Inrangetv has a number of mud and dust tests and the DI guns consistently pass but when they did a mud test of the mr556, it had some failures.
elbryan9 precisely. One advantage a piston gun might have is after 10k rounds with no cleaning, and they are definitely better to shoot suppressed. Otherwise just get a DI gun. Military Arms channel is running a test on a BCM and so far he has about 6k rounds through it with no lube or cleaning and it is still running great.
@Paul Lo Cicero Not sure what "whynisnthe" means but I'm guess you're asking why is the ejection port open? If so, yes, it's good practice to keep that thing shut as often as practical. But if you're in the shit, you might have more important things on your mind like, getting down and taking cover. If you're in a muddy environment, you just might get some mud on your bcg. You can rely on a DI gun to blow that stuff away. A piston gun, not so much.
Interesting to see that this A1 version costs 3500 USD (was that including the optic?). I paid 2200 EUR (~2440 USD, but including the 19% sales tax) for my MR223 (the European version in CIP spec .223, which is more or less identical to 5.56x45 NATO spec), but in the A3 configuration with the cold-hammer-forged barrel, chrome lined bore, regular push pins holding the upper and lower together (in the standard AR15 pin locations) and full ambi controls. I tried the IMI, although the 55grs, when I first got it (because it was available for a reasonable price and I had heard good things about IMI's ammo quality), but for some reason it did not like those at all. After some research online it turns out that I was apparently not the only one that had this issue with the MR223A3. Now I'm mainly using GGG (a Lithuanian ammo company) 55grs FMJ and with that I can hold thumbnail sized groups at 100m (from a fully supported position with a rear rest, I'm not that good of a shot to do that unsupported XD) all day, with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24. Including the opic I paid around 2.5-2.6k EUR, which I think is a fair price for what you get. Granted, it is quite front heavy (even more so if you add a bipod), so for run and gun this is not exactly ideal. But for sitting at the range and punching nice groups into paper, it is amazing XD
Thanks for this vid guys! The MR is the A1 Version. I don´t think its stainless stell. The different to the A3 Version is chrom inline and the ambidextrous handlind (und den Winter Abzugsbügel) I own the old A1 Version of the MR308 (have it since 2009) and the A3 Version of the MR223. Both are the German Counterpart from the Mr762 and Mr556. But i pay a lot less then ur prices in america ( less then 2000$ in 2009 and for the 308 and 2200$ for the 223 in 2018) The precision from both rifles is with good ammo sub moa. and the rifles shooting better than me :-) iam the limiting factor
it is interesting that the mr556 has such a high cost, given that the norwegian military payed around 2000 usd per hk416N, but i guess bulk price is bulk price great video, keep up the good content, greating from norway.
I cobbled my AR together with Colt, Spikes, Stag, and several brands of furniture. I ran three types of match grade ammo at 62, 69, and 75 grain and there is no POI change nor accuracy benefit at 100 yards from bulk 62 grain.
I had a bad (eye opening) experience with my US Army-issued, properly maintained M16-A2 while in Germany on an Aviation E&E course: My rifle jammed and I became "KIA" because, being "on the run," I had zero time to stop and clean the built up carbon from my chamber and bolt. As a result, I became an instant fan of "the enemy's rifle" since the AK was renown for absolute functionality under the exact same conditions-- so much so, I bought one when I got out. That said, if I had been carrying this "416" with its piston system, I have a feeling things might've been different... *Who cares if your system is "more accurate" than the enemy's if it won't function when your enemy's will?* But apparently, thanks to the excellent work you guys do, you've proven you can have both!
@@JustSomeGuy69420 And how exactly was it that you became the all knowing "M16 Czar"? Oh, lemme guess-- you were appointed by the *"Ministry of Truth!"* Lmao!
Well I can definitely say that a 4k gun is ridiculous in my applications. I don't shoot professionally so I have a hard time justifying anything over 500. I'm somewhat of a cheapskate lol
It is not very heavy for a rifle with a match profile barrel. It is quite smooth to shoot. I have it breaked and god I hate it without enough ear protection. I have unused suppressor for it also, just got it. It does not get dirty at all. I find no point in cleaning the action after a range visit.
If I set the gas block to suppressed without suppressor, it runs very smooth. The reason I picked it is I wanted: 1. Quality and reliability 2. Accuracy 3. Long service life 4. Performance in very bad weather conditions (cold winter, mostly) 5. System that runs clean
I built one of the “real” 416s from Brownells. I really love it, but for the money there is much better out there. It does everything I could ever want though, so I can’t be mad.
Generally agree on all points re piston vs di. I have owned many of each from many different manufacturers, and i feel i need to just add that my PWS (Long stroke piston) MK111M2(5.56) and MK216M1(.308) are the softest / smoothest shooting "AR"s i have shot, period. While even more impressive in the .308 vs its competitors, the 5.56 is like a squirt gun when it is suppressed and adjusted properly. The 111 being 6.2lbs, and the 216 being 8.4lbs, put them right in the sweet spot imo for both platforms. Point here being that i dont think many of the perceived downsides that many people see in piston is inherent to the system itself, but more to the execution in specific platforms. Does a piston add weight? Yes of course. Does it compromise the balance of the rifle? Not necessarily. Does it degrade accuracy? Not necessarily. PWS is worth a look to many of the people not sold on piston rifles. They are almost exclusively the only AR pattern rifles i shoot anymore. Price point is just right imo as well, but creeping up.
I only use the 77gr OTM but I reload and I have a lot of it stored up. I will be using the 77gr OTM on my elk hunt again this year and I will be using it in Alaska to hunt with. A friend of mine lives there and that's all he uses. He uses his Glock 20 SF 10mm for bear protection.
I'm all for pistons as cleaning is a breeze since the carbon is primarily contained in the gas cylinder when the firearm is properly tuned. Less money spent on q-tips.
I mean over gassed, piston or not, I think the fact that the HK doesn't have that massive 3 chamber brake on it is why it recoils more than any other difference.
My hk came with an out of spec lower they literally forgot to mil out on side of the magazine well fully for what i paid it soured me from hk they fixed it at their cost and sent me a very nice range bag but my bcm recce cost me half as much same with my sig mcx and neither has any flaws or issues.
The added recoil is more from the HK416, and by extension the MR556, being incredibly over-gassed by any standard of AR15. H&K wanted the gun to be able to run through just about anything, but brute force reliability has its drawbacks.
I would like to see you testing a styer aug with the standar optics, a servicemen in the Uruguayan army told me the he prefer the FAL because it was more acurate.
@@9HoleReviews Gotcha. If you can get your hands on the latest 2020+ I'd do so. They did quite a lot of work reshaping the barrel, and its almost exactly the same profile as an HK416 14.5" A5 now. Still the same unlined French cannon steel used, no chrome lining. The weight is tolerable now.
im just thinking about the kind of ar you could build from a stripped receiver set with that much money. the piston system is only better in extreme harsh conditions like they mentioned and also extreme high volume of fire. I have burried my ar10 in snow with a dry BCG and shot it with no issues on a GI system. I also had that snow melt, form as ice and shoot it again with no issues on a dry bolt. I couldnt justify the extra weight and slight decrease in accuracy of the piston and the price that comes with it
The impingement rifles shoot better as a rule. Lewis Machine taught me that. Stoner pretty much addressed everything in a semiautomatic that degrades accuracy . To think of how much ridicule that rifle got after it first came out. Then they had the ball powder pressure excursions blowing up rifles. The GI's dubbed it the Mattel toy. On top of that GI's returning from Vietnam were enamored with the AK47. The story they told was that you could bury one in the mud for a year , dig it up brush it off and it would shoot. On the news one night someone. I assume the government did a mud test comparison not unlike the one Ian did. The results were the same. The M16 was more reliable. Still the stigma stuck. It was decades before I found out the truth.
![LSA TX7 [Rem 700 PRS "Gamer" rifle] to 1,000yds: Practical Accuracy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qC731lYjiBY/mqdefault.jpg)
![LSA TX7 [Rem 700 PRS "Gamer" rifle] to 1,000yds: Practical Accuracy](/img/tr.png)
It's not just the piston system, H&K 416s are notoriously over-gassed
sending you something to preview right now ;)
@@9HoleReviews How many times have i told you?!
Stop sending us your amateur sex videos! :D
@@PolenarTactical I want to see those videos!
@@PolenarTactical I have the feeling Jerry is the TOP and Josh the BOTTOM... Am I right?
Well at least the always cycle.
THIS... is the kind of shooting experience I'd like to have. No macho, hypetrain, showing off but a very neutral, straightforward and semi-professional show of the capabilities of the arm as wel als the shooter's. I like that. Appreciated.
Yup me too
I would LOVE to see the opposite of this. It would be awesome to see what you guys could do with a poverty pony PSA mid-length 16" upper (around $219) and the cheapest PSA standard M4 lower (around $129). For optics use the cheapest variable magnification optics like the $80 Monstrum 1-4x tactical scope and for ammo, use cheap 55 grain Federal XM193 or perhaps Tula .223 steel cased 62 grain ammo if its windy. That I think would be interesting to the vast numbers of us po' folk who can't afford the fancy AR's but who would LOVE to see what experienced shooters can do with such a budget setup.
Pi pop
Anderson Manufacturing is Poverty Pony. PSA is really a step above them.
@@ryanpeck3377 Either way PSA's are dirty cheap. I actually just got an even cheaper LVPO than the Monstrum 1-4x I mentioned. I got a Center-Point 1-4x variable optic and I have to say that I'm loving it. Instead of the BDC marks like the Monstrum topic, it has just an etched circle and a dot that works well both illuminated or without illumination and is perfect for close range work. It's actually more like 1.5x on the lowest setting but I can still use it with both eyes open at close range. On the 4X setting it works great out to 200 yards but might be trickier for farther distances. But for the 9 Hole test, something like the Monstrum 1-4x scope would be better with the BDC markings and thin crosshairs.
@@wigon I had a psa mid length 16' in on a Anderson lower and Hornady ammo with the same scope as you and got .75 moa. Easily repeating.. a hell of a set up and I sold it.....
@@wwclay86 Nice. Yup I got 1.5 MOA with Monarch 55 grain soft point ammo and with Hornady Frontier 75 grain BTHP Match ammo, I got just under 1 MOA (around .90) using the cheapest PSA lower and a 1/7 twist 16" mid-length upper and that cheap center point LVPO that I mentioned. I'm surprised you sold yours. I'll definitely NOT sell mine as I'm super happy with mine. I don't even want change to a free-floated hand-guard as I don't want to screw around with the barrel harmonics. So far pressure on the hand guard doesn't seem to shift point of impact very much compared to when I rest it on its magazine with no pressure on the hand guard/barrel. Granted as the barrel heats up the groups do start to open up a bit, but I don't get too much shift thankfully and I'm gradually getting good at knowing where to hold as the barrel heats up. But for hunting it's that first shot from a cold barrel that matters to me most.
What's cool is that judging from the massive damage shown on ballistic gel tests of those Hornady Frontier 75 grain BHTP rounds (from a 16" barrel), they should make both excellent rounds for hunting and for home defense. The price on that ammo is relatively budget friendly for match grade ammo. I can't wait to try this rifle out hog hunting. The optic I'm using should be perfect for that as I doubt I'll be making any shots past 100 yards. Now I just need to keep written down my optics adjustments (and then memorize it) for when I switch to the less expensive Monarch 55 grain soft point ammo for regular plinking.
Mister 556, clever.
I used the 416 as my service rifle in the Norwegian Army and I LOVE IT! we used almost the same build with a different scope and rail. we used a aimpoint red dot on it. but I stil managed a 14/15 on 400m test. so I would say the rifle is very usable for longer distance combat
Aimpoint Comp4 1x er vanskelig på 500m😅😂
First and in before the avalanche of complaints about the price tag.
So it begins.
@@9HoleReviews This is the way.
The price is absurd but my biggest complaint is the absurd 10lb weight.
An AR style carbine should NOT weigh as much as an M1 Garand.
@@podmonkey2501 Agreed. Unless it's slinging .308 as well. Still in this day and age with companies like POF making them lighter, with more features, and more affordable, HK really needs to go back to the drawing board on this one. And I'm an HK fan.
@@Maelstrom8 literally this. With the POF now being down to 7 pounds and only $2,000, there is zero excuses why a company like HK has a rifle that heavy. On the flip side of that, one of the reasons that HKs cost so much is because it is a NIGHTMARE to export them from Germany. Germany has some of the strictest gun laws in the EU, and getting those guns out of the country costs a fair amount, per weapon.
The MR556 is quite possibly the most gorgeous & beautiful AR style rifle in the world. Love this machine
i think past like 1500$ you enter the realm of diminishing returns in performance of ARs...they do get better but not justifiably so for the increase in price...you're better off with a mid range option and buying more ammo to train with instead...
epic_schnitzel totally depends on the application. For competion, which is what most 'gucci' Ars are made for, the increase in price is defined worth it
I'd raise it to $2000. Especially if you're looking at AR10's as well.
I just bought an Aero Precision 308 AR 10. 1600 bucks with beefy muzzle brake, bipod and a snazzy magpul stock. Guy had a flashy 556 rifle with anodized everything, custom trigger job etc. 1800 bucks. Competition gun. At some point you're paying for aesthetics beyond performance.
@@jonathonbridges9625 Yeah but not all $2k guns are flashy. Sometimes it's materials or innovation. Or just the record of the company. Look at the MDR. Yes, it's a 308 battle rifle. You can get one for 1k. But you're also paying for an innovative design and other features. Personally I went with the M17S which was cheaper, but provided all the innovation I needed. Still it was around 2k.
ehh, something like KACs or LMTs are the exception I'd say, they feature actual changes to the essential parts of the gun (gas system, bolt, carrier, etc) that make a real difference
you see KACs lasting 20,000, 30,000, 50,000, 70,000, even 100,000 round counts without major cleaning or repairs/part swaps, imagine trying that with a BCM or DD
imo don't spend more than $1200 on one unless you get an actual improved build like a KAC or LMT. stuff like Colt, DD, BCM, etc are good builds, don't get me wrong I respect them, but I wouldn't pay more than $1200 for one.
i am from germany and over her the HK cost 1900€ and an us made ar15 like the Colt or Windham costs 1700€.
i did pick the HK
never seen a new HK MR223 at that price, please share
You guys have guns?
€1900,- seems like a steal! Was it stolen?
HK MR556 (semiauto) in the US is listed at $4150,- MSRP.
@@bjosch4365 the cheapest one i could find right now run between 2200 and 2300 which is right in the ballpark of a lot of popular ar15s on the market
@@VorteX_SH sure.
Just bought this yesterday with the HK VP9 pelican case combo for 2900 can't wait to shoot it
Just a random comment on a triviality: Overall, really enjoyable, but I particularly like your intro's - the camera movement to behind the rifle, and then through the scope of the actual setup being fired is a simple, great intro and puts things into perspective straight away.
A scope cam would be a nice addition especially for the longer shots and on windy days.
Also the audio in the last part had echoing effect... though might be a problem in my headphones.
The scope cam is something we're trying to integrate. However, for performance testing, it limits the shooter's ability (really to see as well) so we don't like to include it as part of the run. May try to include some shots that show hold overs/off as we progress.
@@9HoleReviews That makes sense. Showing even 1 or 2 shots past 300 yards I.E. One for 300, one for 350, etc. to show hold overs. Helps a lot for us PA guys who have a hard time finding ranges beyond 300 except for a few amish farm fields nearby lol.
Thank you.
Excellent commentary on ammo too. I stack the 55gr FMJ deep and almost never plan on engaging more than 200. I keep plenty of 77gr SMK and TMK for shorties and long range.
0:56 someone forgot to include text when they hit render lol
whoops. -Henry
Wow, I'm kinda impressed. Time to re-watch the M16A4 video and compare.
for those of you wanting to skip the search... this rifle is better.
@@Holret Better but not by much. Their M16A4 w/ ACOG (a worse optic fwiw) needed 25 rounds to complete the course. And Josh admitted in that video to pulling low on a few targets. So realistically, the two are nearly the same.
@@thegoldencaulk2742 this one is better - no excuses
At less than half the price by the way😉
@@thegoldencaulk2742 The iron sight run with the A4 was phenomenal.
My body is ready
Bradon Higgins Jew merchants are happy
your wallet wont be ready
The perfect comment doesnt exis........
Change your pfp you fucking boot
I have one (well, before the boating accident), and they are a very high quality piece of kit. I have (err, had) other ARs that are probably "just as good" (the song of those on a budget). But they are not THIS. It's like comparing a Vette to a 911 Turbo. These things are built like a swiss watch.
Perfect analogy
Best way I was able to explain recoil on the IAR to new shooters was the recoil wasn't any more it's just sharper/quicker.
I don’t think I’ve talked to anyone who noticed a difference in recoil with the IAR
Thank you guys for finally doing "my" rifle. Its a lot cheaper here in germany.
I had one and it shot better than I (with my old eyes) could. I zero'd the scope and was ringing a 12" steel plate at 300 yards with an entire magazine. Problem is, like you said, too front end heavy for me (My left shoulder isn't so good), so I sold it and bought an STG 77 - 40th anniversary AUG. THAT this is a ball too shoot!
Ayyy! We're finally doing a shooting range video of my favorite Assault Rifle, the HK416
I love your videos. Despite the price, the rifle is worth having. The rifle is smooth.
Me: fast forward every intro from every RUclipsr.
Also me: sees 9-hole-reviews video starts bumping to some bombass music and watches every intro.
Great video and shooting with analysis. Glad you had ideal conditions for this video. Excellent work gents.
The new standard issued rifle of the French army. The FAMAS now being obsolete.
David DeVito regardless the French will be using the superior German rifle.
@@jesseterrell9354 The superior rifle that was sent back to the German manufacturer because they were defective...
magoid ha
Don't let Gun Jesus hear you say that again.
Sketchy Ginge ha honestly I don’t understand his obsession with all things French in all arms I think they’re mediocre at best but each to his own
HKM4? I have no need for such a name anymore!
I see you're a man of culture as well.
*nervous G11 noises*
Hmmmmm
All we need!
My favorite waifu in GFL
You should do the the Sig Sauer AR 516 and the Caracal 816.
Please use this on the DMR setup! Would be very interested to see how it performs. Thanks!
I'd take it all day long over a DI - If the SHTF, I don't want to be fist fighting for Hoppe's, CLP, or Ballistol. Peacetime competition is one thing and the field can and usually is quite another thing.
I really enjoy your videos! Very informative and to the point. Being new to distance shooting I use your evaluations to help me decide on my next rifle and scope. Thanks for the great videos.
HK 416 is an absolute beauty .....N the accuracy wowwwwww...
So here's some honest(but slightly biased) opinion. I carried an M27 for several years in the Marine Corps, and am considered by many to be a decent shot. Some of the amazingness with this gun was it's ability to squeeze(quite literally I'll say) extra accuracy out of crap m855 ammo. I've gotten sub moa groups on this weapon system basically every time i shot it on paper. And that accuracy persisted over several rifles over many years while we were shooting 1000's and even 10's of thousands of rounds through these barrels(remember that the military gets a different barrel though, chf with a tapered internal profile to the muzzle).
This is also the only gun I've ever fired where i never had a single jam besides training with blanks, and that was once because we didn't have the correct blank firing adaptors for them initially. This is over the 5 different rifles i was issued between Hawaii and Japan. We were also able to push these out to around 650-700 meters on a known distance range, during the course which established the curriculum for the new Designated marksman course(they did away with the old one, which was taught with us being issued MK 12 rifles). During that time we could easily, and reliably make hits on man sized targets in some of the crappiest wind conditions you'll ever have on a range(kaneohe bay range is on the back side of this ocean cliff area and the shifts in wind were unbelievable).
All of this with a 3.5X acog. This gun with an SDO and harris bipod was heavy for what it was, but so much lighter than the M249 and MK 12 which it replaced. And if i were ever asked what off the shelf weapon I'd take in to combat it would be that gun with the a5 enhancements, and either the same optic combo, or a good LPVO.
I enjoyed carrying it, and would proudly carry one again. I wish they didn't cost so damn much, and I'd probably just go with an upper on a a really good lower(also with a Geissele trigger, Enjoyed the trigger but an ssa is still superior). But i do, mostly, think it's worth the money. I really do miss it.
You know, somehow I kinda expected a "and here is why the gun is actually garbage" at every turn of your post. But its good to hear the gun served you well! :D
@@termitreter6545 it really did. It's not like i didn't have a few complaints/criticisms. But the accuracy and reliability were amazing. Nearly pinnacle for the ar platform if you ask me. But im sure there are still great advancements around the corner.
Expensive he says. Runs $12 birdcage.
Very good shooting with a nice setup there!
H&K rulez! Outstanding.
9:52 I was just about to bring up the InRange mud tests of the standard “DI” AR and a piston gun and found the “DI” gun to be more reliable because vented gas to help clean out mud and debris.
@Paul Lo Cicero That's exactly the point though. People keep saying these piston systems are more reliable but if that dust cover is open, there's a good chance it'll get fouled up. Inrangetv has a number of mud and dust tests and the DI guns consistently pass but when they did a mud test of the mr556, it had some failures.
elbryan9 precisely. One advantage a piston gun might have is after 10k rounds with no cleaning, and they are definitely better to shoot suppressed. Otherwise just get a DI gun. Military Arms channel is running a test on a BCM and so far he has about 6k rounds through it with no lube or cleaning and it is still running great.
@Paul Lo Cicero Not sure what "whynisnthe" means but I'm guess you're asking why is the ejection port open? If so, yes, it's good practice to keep that thing shut as often as practical. But if you're in the shit, you might have more important things on your mind like, getting down and taking cover. If you're in a muddy environment, you just might get some mud on your bcg. You can rely on a DI gun to blow that stuff away. A piston gun, not so much.
@Paul Lo Cicero It's all good dude. I figured that's what you meant. Have a good one bud. I'm about to go off and have a long day myself. :/
In that specific context, maybe. The military actually found it to have significantly more rounds between stoppages compared to an M4.
Interesting to see that this A1 version costs 3500 USD (was that including the optic?). I paid 2200 EUR (~2440 USD, but including the 19% sales tax) for my MR223 (the European version in CIP spec .223, which is more or less identical to 5.56x45 NATO spec), but in the A3 configuration with the cold-hammer-forged barrel, chrome lined bore, regular push pins holding the upper and lower together (in the standard AR15 pin locations) and full ambi controls. I tried the IMI, although the 55grs, when I first got it (because it was available for a reasonable price and I had heard good things about IMI's ammo quality), but for some reason it did not like those at all. After some research online it turns out that I was apparently not the only one that had this issue with the MR223A3. Now I'm mainly using GGG (a Lithuanian ammo company) 55grs FMJ and with that I can hold thumbnail sized groups at 100m (from a fully supported position with a rear rest, I'm not that good of a shot to do that unsupported XD) all day, with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24. Including the opic I paid around 2.5-2.6k EUR, which I think is a fair price for what you get. Granted, it is quite front heavy (even more so if you add a bipod), so for run and gun this is not exactly ideal. But for sitting at the range and punching nice groups into paper, it is amazing XD
Da reicht das Bild damit ich weiß wer es ist :D
Came for the cool gun stuff, stayed for the gratuitous butt shot on the stairs..... ;-)
RIGHT!!! Its a cool shot but I always imagined him skipping desert occasionally because of the butt shot 🤣🤣🤣
A man of culture.
Nice.
Thanks for this vid guys! The MR is the A1 Version. I don´t think its stainless stell. The different to the A3 Version is chrom inline and the ambidextrous handlind (und den Winter Abzugsbügel)
I own the old A1 Version of the MR308 (have it since 2009) and the A3 Version of the MR223. Both are the German Counterpart from the Mr762 and Mr556.
But i pay a lot less then ur prices in america ( less then 2000$ in 2009 and for the 308 and 2200$ for the 223 in 2018)
The precision from both rifles is with good ammo sub moa. and the rifles shooting better than me :-) iam the limiting factor
0:47 I'll never get over HK's backwards proprietary keymod. 🤣
HKey is the same way around as Keymod though. I have no idea what that in the video is.
Speaking of piston driven AR systems you think you'll try out one of those T91's coming into the west as the Wolf A1?
Damn that call by the spotter at 450 screwed it all up
Love that vortex. Beauty
Try the galil ace in 7.62x39! I just got one and wanna see how it does
With a red dot optic
@@lukes.1333 I dont have a range that that extends past 150, otherwise I'd love to
D. E. Go buy the galil ace in 7.62x39 and try it for him you selfish person
They did it!
I had NO idea H & K has an assault rifle for M4 ! I 100% trust their M416 .. and that is still my choice for an assault rifle.
It would be interesting to see them do an sks.
Already did
it is interesting that the mr556 has such a high cost, given that the norwegian military payed around 2000 usd per hk416N, but i guess bulk price is bulk price great video, keep up the good content, greating from norway.
The M4 costs the US government (depending on what source you use) between $700-1200 per rifle so that's still pretty expensive relatively speaking.
I cobbled my AR together with Colt, Spikes, Stag, and several brands of furniture. I ran three types of match grade ammo at 62, 69, and 75 grain and there is no POI change nor accuracy benefit at 100 yards from bulk 62 grain.
Love the videos and reviews. I would love to know your view on a heavy build 300 win mag
I had a bad (eye opening) experience with my US Army-issued, properly maintained M16-A2 while in Germany on an Aviation E&E course:
My rifle jammed and I became "KIA" because, being "on the run," I had zero time to stop and clean the built up carbon from my chamber and bolt.
As a result, I became an instant fan of "the enemy's rifle" since the AK was renown for absolute functionality under the exact same conditions-- so much so, I bought one when I got out.
That said, if I had been carrying this "416" with its piston system, I have a feeling things might've been different...
*Who cares if your system is "more accurate" than the enemy's if it won't function when your enemy's will?*
But apparently, thanks to the excellent work you guys do, you've proven you can have both!
Ahh yeah the properly maintained m16a2 with carbon build up to the point of jamming. Lol wtf.
@@JustSomeGuy69420 And how exactly was it that you became the all knowing "M16 Czar"? Oh, lemme guess-- you were appointed by the *"Ministry of Truth!"* Lmao!
Yeah!!! Finally my rifle review. Please review MR762 and SCAR20S so I know how good the rest of my rifle are. 😄
All more accurate than you
@@Sreven199 amen to that. I installed Geissele triggers for MR556 and MR762 so hopefully they help out a little bit.
Humble brag
One of the best rifle in the world.
Well I can definitely say that a 4k gun is ridiculous in my applications. I don't shoot professionally so I have a hard time justifying anything over 500. I'm somewhat of a cheapskate lol
It is not very heavy for a rifle with a match profile barrel.
It is quite smooth to shoot. I have it breaked and god I hate it without enough ear protection.
I have unused suppressor for it also, just got it.
It does not get dirty at all. I find no point in cleaning the action after a range visit.
If I set the gas block to suppressed without suppressor, it runs very smooth.
The reason I picked it is I wanted:
1. Quality and reliability
2. Accuracy
3. Long service life
4. Performance in very bad weather conditions (cold winter, mostly)
5. System that runs clean
I built one of the “real” 416s from Brownells. I really love it, but for the money there is much better out there. It does everything I could ever want though, so I can’t be mad.
Generally agree on all points re piston vs di. I have owned many of each from many different manufacturers, and i feel i need to just add that my PWS (Long stroke piston) MK111M2(5.56) and MK216M1(.308) are the softest / smoothest shooting "AR"s i have shot, period. While even more impressive in the .308 vs its competitors, the 5.56 is like a squirt gun when it is suppressed and adjusted properly.
The 111 being 6.2lbs, and the 216 being 8.4lbs, put them right in the sweet spot imo for both platforms. Point here being that i dont think many of the perceived downsides that many people see in piston is inherent to the system itself, but more to the execution in specific platforms. Does a piston add weight? Yes of course. Does it compromise the balance of the rifle? Not necessarily. Does it degrade accuracy? Not necessarily.
PWS is worth a look to many of the people not sold on piston rifles. They are almost exclusively the only AR pattern rifles i shoot anymore. Price point is just right imo as well, but creeping up.
I love listening to the analysis after the exercise, but the shots from the other shooters are startling
Extraordinary good rezult. For 5.56 it is something unusual, bigger caliber rifles does not better shooting.
Love the choice of footwear
I only use the 77gr OTM but I reload and I have a lot of it stored up. I will be using the 77gr OTM on my elk hunt again this year and I will be using it in Alaska to hunt with. A friend of mine lives there and that's all he uses. He uses his Glock 20 SF 10mm for bear protection.
I'm all for pistons as cleaning is a breeze since the carbon is primarily contained in the gas cylinder when the firearm is properly tuned. Less money spent on q-tips.
I would LOVE you guys to do a head to head with the HK MR556 vs the Colt LE6940P (Piston) PLEASE !
I am not impressed easily but your shooting skills are brilliant. Great week to you.
Buy whatever makes you happy stop complaining about price HK MR 556 is worth it
They're just broke
I would like to see the Caracal Car816 (supposedly an updated version of the 416) test. I just happen to have one if needed 😁
Looks sharp
I mean over gassed, piston or not, I think the fact that the HK doesn't have that massive 3 chamber brake on it is why it recoils more than any other difference.
9-holes is now by far the best gun review channel.
You should do a Norinco 84s next
I would like to see the bullet weight displayed on screen or in the intro some were. Great content and thank you for your time.
Bruh it says it on the box of ammo they show in the intro
@@109268 We normally put text there as well, but someone --> Henry --> forgot during editting ;-)
Could you guys do a sharps rifle
Yes please
Ya let’s have them shoot a blunderbuss while there at it
Yes please
Edward Teech they’ll be up there a while...
cdawson198600 actually they would be up there for 40 rounds or less, just like every practical accuracy video
Aww, this REALLY made me miss my 416 service rifle...
1st gen Cayennes are excellent for off-roading
HK MR 556 vs SIG MCX - it would be an interesting duel
Man they tried really hard to not praise the HK. It essentially did flawless except 1 miss at 500 by Henry's admission.
Porsche Cayenne with the right options is actually a really good off roader
The Porche Cayenne analogy LOL
Great video. Nice job.
My hk came with an out of spec lower they literally forgot to mil out on side of the magazine well fully for what i paid it soured me from hk they fixed it at their cost and sent me a very nice range bag but my bcm recce cost me half as much same with my sig mcx and neither has any flaws or issues.
This story is made up
The added recoil is more from the HK416, and by extension the MR556, being incredibly over-gassed by any standard of AR15. H&K wanted the gun to be able to run through just about anything, but brute force reliability has its drawbacks.
You are right, on the other hand it is hard to make a 416 stop working. It is always a game of compromises. And many customers agree with HK.
All I can say about that musket is SWEEEEEEET
I'd love to send you my blaser R8 to test out, it's different enough compared to other rifles you shoot :P
Love H&K firearms!
I would like to see you testing a styer aug with the standar optics, a servicemen in the Uruguayan army told me the he prefer the FAL because it was more acurate.
You need a SIG 550 or 553
They are seriously accurate
If it's possible, please review the *Caracal 814/15/16 Family!!* It would be cool to see them compared to the HK 416!!
This wasn’t a versus video but thanks for the Paul Harrell-ish ending. 😂
Would love to see you compare this to an MR762...
Also: is this the MR556 "heavy barrel" (Pre 2020) or, is this the brand new MR556 2020+ model with the HK416 contoured barrel?
it's the super heavy one.
@@9HoleReviews Gotcha. If you can get your hands on the latest 2020+ I'd do so. They did quite a lot of work reshaping the barrel, and its almost exactly the same profile as an HK416 14.5" A5 now. Still the same unlined French cannon steel used, no chrome lining. The weight is tolerable now.
I wanna see you guys shoot it again but with the HK rotating diopter iron sights.
Cool. Please do the M27 as well!
やっぱり､Ｈ＆Ｋ４１６は別格やなぁ…
個人的にはＳＩＧ５５２にレイルシステムを取り付けて光学デバイスを装着して現代戦向けにアップデートしたモデルが出たら良いのに…
I understand bullpups have notoriously awful triggers, but could you consider reviewing a Keltec RDB?
Nice video, what about bringing the regular g36?
Can you guys do the Tavor X95 with 77 grain ammo and an LPVO?
I second that!!!!
6.5 grendel
Get out
im just thinking about the kind of ar you could build from a stripped receiver set with that much money. the piston system is only better in extreme harsh conditions like they mentioned and also extreme high volume of fire. I have burried my ar10 in snow with a dry BCG and shot it with no issues on a GI system. I also had that snow melt, form as ice and shoot it again with no issues on a dry bolt. I couldnt justify the extra weight and slight decrease in accuracy of the piston and the price that comes with it
I would love to send my Remington 700 sps tactical in 5.56
The impingement rifles shoot better as a rule. Lewis Machine taught me that. Stoner pretty much addressed everything in a semiautomatic that degrades accuracy .
To think of how much ridicule that rifle got after it first came out. Then they had the ball powder pressure excursions blowing up rifles. The GI's dubbed it the Mattel toy.
On top of that GI's returning from Vietnam
were enamored with the AK47. The story they told was that you could bury one in the mud for a year , dig it up brush it off and it would shoot. On the news one night someone. I assume the government did a mud test comparison not unlike the one Ian did. The results were the same. The M16 was more reliable. Still the stigma stuck.
It was decades before I found out the truth.
Henry, do you have any experience with the Wilcox M. The wind doping rangefinder?
Okay now how about some for the pragmatists. Ruger ar556 or S&W sport 11. Etc. Just for comparison.