Do you have your own way of pricing magic items in D&D? I want to hear about it! And don't forget to check out today's sponsor, Domille's Wondrous Works: bit.ly/3x0tln6 Grab a free sample pack of DWW maps here: mab.to/t/byu7ZmjH4WX/us2
Glad I subscribed to your channel! 😃You've got some great ideas that are well grounded in logic and your presentation is strong! Very non-pretentious and I find that refreshing. Some youtubers don't come across as genuine. At some point I'd like to work with you on fleshing out this system. I have some ideas I'd like to share. Do you do google meet? Will be putting you on my patreon list btw. Thanks for your efforts! Steve C. Design Lead, Khor The World Of Many Portals Kickstarter, 2025.
When I was creating a Magic Item Price List, I decided everything in Xanathar's was nonsense, and instead came up with prices for each level scroll. I then look at the item and ask "what level of spell does this emulate?" Consumables are the same price. Daily use is 10x. Unlimited/charges, is 25x.
I feel the nonsense vibe, for sure! The reason I choose to stick close to baseline numbers on the first pass of any homebrew work I do is because 5e works *surprisingly* well the closer to the RAW text you stick in most cases. The price numbers themselves are largely arbitrary as its not real money, but how they interact with other elements of the system can make them seem better or worse, or have knock on effects you didn't plan for. So by sticking close to RAW and just adjusting the brackets of numbers and adding in more options between them, someone should be able to bring this system into a RAW game with no knock on effects.
@@IcarusGames I can see how sticking close to RAW can help with most things... But magic item rarity is *not* well thought out. +1 Leather Armor (functionally identical to studded leather), and an Instant Fortress (20 ft square, 30 ft tall, adamantine tower... That you can *instantly* put *anywhere*) are both "rare" items.... For 4,000 gp, you'd see those towers at every major battle sight in the realms... If they weren't mined afterwards for the adamantine...
Last campaign my group true polymorphed a cow into an apple tree made of diamond to give to a dragon in exchange for its support. Trying to figure out the economic implications of that, as well as how many of the diamond apples could be removed from the tree before it broke the spell was a headscratcher.
@@IcarusGames The economic implications are... the D&D economy makes no sense lol. Forgot to mention you can use Fabricate to gradually turn the block of gold into coins.
Great Work. I do allow my players to buy stuff at a MAJOR city. Usually 5 times book value and 50% book trade in. I have a robust Critical Hits and misses table and I have WEAPON item BREAKS on that table. Last adventure. My guys main fighter. Broke his +4 vorpal sword. he paid 230000 GP for on a Critical Miss and he rolled a 1 on a saving throw for it. ( I use the ANCIENT item saving throw chart 1st edition D&D.) It is great way to siphon gold!!!!!
Great vid. I’d love to give this table a whirl in any future 5e game I run. Don’t think I will anytime soon though. There are too many new RPGs out there right now and they’re all so exciting! Maybe one day.
@@IcarusGames Currently still playing through my D&D 4e game, but looking forward to Daggerheart and MCDM RPG when that drops! I’m also eagerly waiting for Starfinder 2e as that’s going to be a great change of pace setting-wise for my table!
I think this is a fairly complicated (read that as fun and interesting) topic to work through for any setting. I always like thinking through the economy of a setting because of how quickly disbelief will set in for me if things just don't make any sense. I can't have an adventuring party roll into a major city and drop more gold than the entire GDP of the region on items that are apparently available to the average merchant, but other items might only be owned by a king almost as a symbol of office and if somehow purchased at some fancy auction, should nearly bankrupt most nobles. In that light, I don't think huge scaling of sums, from under 100gp right into 10s of thousands or even 100s of thousands are out of the question for the most powerful items in the game and I just think of them like towers, strongholds or large ships. How long do they take to build and how much power does owning one convey? Some magic items are absolutely on that tier but then sometimes have the additional value of they cannot be made any more. I guess that is a long-winded way to say I think exponential growth feels better when paired with exponential rarity.
Pretty much the only reason I'm not playing 4e right now is that VTT support (specifically Foundry) isn't great. I'd be all over it otherwise. I've got all the 4e core books, and have enjoyed everything I've read in them.
@@IcarusGames Yes - the VTT options not great for 4e. Also, have looked at Kobold Press' iteration of D&D5e (Tales of the Valiant). Basically I am now stuck in a PF2e campaign (which is fun - prewritten adventure path) - but we do get bogged down in rules. Unfortunately one of my players loves hard-boiled rules. But I have decided, when I get back to writing my own adventures, it will not be Pathfinder (probably 4e or Tales of the Valiant). If you like a time paradox adventure, I can send you a free complimentary of my 'The Sunken Village of Little Corth' on the DM's Guild.
Surprised to see that you were leaving PF2, but after reading your blog post, I definitely empathize everything you just said. I had my own journey with PF2, initially coming from 5e as I was so frustrated with it, and being amazed at all the modern innovations it had in terms of math and balance and player options. But yeah, it has a ton of bugbears - just as much as 5e did. The beauty with 5e is that it’s so loose that you can definitely still run a game with those bugbears, and homebrew or house rule stuff to fix the seams. But in PF2, you have to live with those bugbears. That martial caster disparity still exists in PF2, except casters suck because the spell slots system inherited from 3e sucked. And there’s just no way you can fix that, whether be it in PF2 or 5e because both use the same flawed spell slot system. And if you’re going to choose to play a broken system any way, why not pick the one that’s easier to run, and more fun? In any case I departed from PF2 too. I switched to D&D 4e, and I’m having a whale of a time. That system has its flaws and bugbears too, but I found it a nice middle ground where its flaws can be fixed because its math is loose just like 5e, and it was both fun and easy to run.
If I was running a purely in-person campaign with my current group, I'd 100% have proposed 4e as our system when we moved away from PF2 because I've loved everything I've ever read on the system, but it just doesn't have the VTT support to make it worth it for me. Easier to keep with the most supported system in the world and keep taking the stuff I like from 4e to add to my game 😂
I can see the logic in that too! I went with increasing the price because for a lot of the attuned items (not all though, for sure) they can do multiple things or have power beyond what you'd expect.
May I ask your recommended prizes for very rare items if we take our players to a magocracy or to a special shop where they can purchase such items (a storm giant artificer or a dwarven master smith's workshop, etc)😊 Thanks in advance 😊
I use logic to price everything. That's It. Of course that means knowing exactly what materials and distribution factors and processes go into the construction of everything. It means factoring in rarity of components in a given locale, the degree of elite status of its architect, mass-producibility, number of middle-men mark-ups... I know that sounds complicated but it isn't done one item at a time. It's all leveraged in a relational database. A lot of research went into it but that's how I roll. I've been DM-ing for 43 years. It's been a labor of love. Everything in my campaign worlds are deeply entrenched like this and the results are extremely immersive for myself and the players. P.S.: Just discovered this channel! Love it! Subscribed!
0:01 "today we're going to fix the economy." I don't hear any principals of economics in this video. Your criteria for setting prices are based on arbitrary game design and game mechanics rather than concepts like the value of labor, scarcity of resources, and supply and demand. Your prices don't feel any more diegetic than the prices that the game designers set. Please rectify this false promise.
Now I'm just picturing a teen-slasher style horror film where the high school youths gather for a night of drinking and the terrifying buzz killington kicks down the door demanding to know whether they have considered the value of labor, scarcity of resources, and supply and demand. They beg for mercy, but buzz killington doesn't trade in pleas, only well-regulated currency backed by trusted financial institutions. The teens never stood a chance. . . [and yes, this is to be read with the cadence of Rob Cantor's "Shia LaBeouf"]
Do you have your own way of pricing magic items in D&D? I want to hear about it!
And don't forget to check out today's sponsor, Domille's Wondrous Works: bit.ly/3x0tln6
Grab a free sample pack of DWW maps here: mab.to/t/byu7ZmjH4WX/us2
Glad I subscribed to your channel! 😃You've got some great ideas that are well grounded in logic and your presentation is strong! Very non-pretentious and I find that refreshing. Some youtubers don't come across as genuine. At some point I'd like to work with you on fleshing out this system. I have some ideas I'd like to share. Do you do google meet? Will be putting you on my patreon list btw. Thanks for your efforts!
Steve C.
Design Lead,
Khor The World Of Many Portals
Kickstarter, 2025.
Great video mate. The other big one is artificers and if you allow players to get resources and magical ingredients.
Great video. Greater hair.
When I was creating a Magic Item Price List, I decided everything in Xanathar's was nonsense, and instead came up with prices for each level scroll.
I then look at the item and ask "what level of spell does this emulate?"
Consumables are the same price.
Daily use is 10x.
Unlimited/charges, is 25x.
I feel the nonsense vibe, for sure!
The reason I choose to stick close to baseline numbers on the first pass of any homebrew work I do is because 5e works *surprisingly* well the closer to the RAW text you stick in most cases. The price numbers themselves are largely arbitrary as its not real money, but how they interact with other elements of the system can make them seem better or worse, or have knock on effects you didn't plan for.
So by sticking close to RAW and just adjusting the brackets of numbers and adding in more options between them, someone should be able to bring this system into a RAW game with no knock on effects.
@@IcarusGames I can see how sticking close to RAW can help with most things... But magic item rarity is *not* well thought out.
+1 Leather Armor (functionally identical to studded leather), and an Instant Fortress (20 ft square, 30 ft tall, adamantine tower... That you can *instantly* put *anywhere*) are both "rare" items....
For 4,000 gp, you'd see those towers at every major battle sight in the realms... If they weren't mined afterwards for the adamantine...
Oh yeah, base magic item rarity is a real issue. It's close to the top of my list for things I want them to sort in the upcoming books.
@@IcarusGames yeah, with any luck, this will all be taken care of with the new core books 😝
Using official RAW:
1. Spend 25 weeks and 50,000 gp to craft a scroll of true polymorph
2. True polymorph a flea into a 1 ton block of gold
3. Profit.
Last campaign my group true polymorphed a cow into an apple tree made of diamond to give to a dragon in exchange for its support. Trying to figure out the economic implications of that, as well as how many of the diamond apples could be removed from the tree before it broke the spell was a headscratcher.
@@IcarusGames The economic implications are... the D&D economy makes no sense lol. Forgot to mention you can use Fabricate to gradually turn the block of gold into coins.
Very good recommendations, thanks 😊
Great Work. I do allow my players to buy stuff at a MAJOR city. Usually 5 times book value and 50% book trade in. I have a robust Critical Hits and misses table and I have WEAPON item BREAKS on that table. Last adventure. My guys main fighter. Broke his +4 vorpal sword. he paid 230000 GP for on a Critical Miss and he rolled a 1 on a saving throw for it. ( I use the ANCIENT item saving throw chart 1st edition D&D.) It is great way to siphon gold!!!!!
Great video! I'll have to save money for the latest magazine!
Great vid. I’d love to give this table a whirl in any future 5e game I run. Don’t think I will anytime soon though. There are too many new RPGs out there right now and they’re all so exciting! Maybe one day.
Absolutely fair! What system are you most excited to try out next?
@@IcarusGames Currently still playing through my D&D 4e game, but looking forward to Daggerheart and MCDM RPG when that drops! I’m also eagerly waiting for Starfinder 2e as that’s going to be a great change of pace setting-wise for my table!
I think this is a fairly complicated (read that as fun and interesting) topic to work through for any setting. I always like thinking through the economy of a setting because of how quickly disbelief will set in for me if things just don't make any sense. I can't have an adventuring party roll into a major city and drop more gold than the entire GDP of the region on items that are apparently available to the average merchant, but other items might only be owned by a king almost as a symbol of office and if somehow purchased at some fancy auction, should nearly bankrupt most nobles. In that light, I don't think huge scaling of sums, from under 100gp right into 10s of thousands or even 100s of thousands are out of the question for the most powerful items in the game and I just think of them like towers, strongholds or large ships. How long do they take to build and how much power does owning one convey? Some magic items are absolutely on that tier but then sometimes have the additional value of they cannot be made any more.
I guess that is a long-winded way to say I think exponential growth feels better when paired with exponential rarity.
One of the other issues is where two items have the same effect but come in a different form and rarity. Headband and ring
It just makes sense. That ring had no business being enchanted for ‘sweat absorption’
If you've gone back to D&D5e, highly recommend you give 4e a whirl.
Pretty much the only reason I'm not playing 4e right now is that VTT support (specifically Foundry) isn't great. I'd be all over it otherwise. I've got all the 4e core books, and have enjoyed everything I've read in them.
@@IcarusGames Yes - the VTT options not great for 4e. Also, have looked at Kobold Press' iteration of D&D5e (Tales of the Valiant). Basically I am now stuck in a PF2e campaign (which is fun - prewritten adventure path) - but we do get bogged down in rules. Unfortunately one of my players loves hard-boiled rules. But I have decided, when I get back to writing my own adventures, it will not be Pathfinder (probably 4e or Tales of the Valiant). If you like a time paradox adventure, I can send you a free complimentary of my 'The Sunken Village of Little Corth' on the DM's Guild.
Surprised to see that you were leaving PF2, but after reading your blog post, I definitely empathize everything you just said. I had my own journey with PF2, initially coming from 5e as I was so frustrated with it, and being amazed at all the modern innovations it had in terms of math and balance and player options.
But yeah, it has a ton of bugbears - just as much as 5e did. The beauty with 5e is that it’s so loose that you can definitely still run a game with those bugbears, and homebrew or house rule stuff to fix the seams. But in PF2, you have to live with those bugbears.
That martial caster disparity still exists in PF2, except casters suck because the spell slots system inherited from 3e sucked. And there’s just no way you can fix that, whether be it in PF2 or 5e because both use the same flawed spell slot system.
And if you’re going to choose to play a broken system any way, why not pick the one that’s easier to run, and more fun?
In any case I departed from PF2 too. I switched to D&D 4e, and I’m having a whale of a time. That system has its flaws and bugbears too, but I found it a nice middle ground where its flaws can be fixed because its math is loose just like 5e, and it was both fun and easy to run.
If I was running a purely in-person campaign with my current group, I'd 100% have proposed 4e as our system when we moved away from PF2 because I've loved everything I've ever read on the system, but it just doesn't have the VTT support to make it worth it for me.
Easier to keep with the most supported system in the world and keep taking the stuff I like from 4e to add to my game 😂
Interesting i actually lower the price if they require attunement... since you can only do 3
I can see the logic in that too!
I went with increasing the price because for a lot of the attuned items (not all though, for sure) they can do multiple things or have power beyond what you'd expect.
May I ask your recommended prizes for very rare items if we take our players to a magocracy or to a special shop where they can purchase such items (a storm giant artificer or a dwarven master smith's workshop, etc)😊
Thanks in advance 😊
I can still see very rare and even maybe legendary ocasionally be put up at auction. Some noble or adventurer selling their prized magic item
Oh absolutely! But then you're looking at bespoke pricing and bidding, and there won't be anything even remotely resembling a "standard" price.
I use logic to price everything. That's It. Of course that means knowing exactly what materials and distribution factors and processes go into the construction of everything. It means factoring in rarity of components in a given locale, the degree of elite status of its architect, mass-producibility, number of middle-men mark-ups... I know that sounds complicated but it isn't done one item at a time. It's all leveraged in a relational database. A lot of research went into it but that's how I roll. I've been DM-ing for 43 years. It's been a labor of love. Everything in my campaign worlds are deeply entrenched like this and the results are extremely immersive for myself and the players. P.S.: Just discovered this channel! Love it! Subscribed!
Just normal men😂
0:01 "today we're going to fix the economy."
I don't hear any principals of economics in this video. Your criteria for setting prices are based on arbitrary game design and game mechanics rather than concepts like the value of labor, scarcity of resources, and supply and demand. Your prices don't feel any more diegetic than the prices that the game designers set. Please rectify this false promise.
You must be fun at parties 🤣
@@IcarusGames That's actually the perfect response. My name is buzz killington.
Now I'm just picturing a teen-slasher style horror film where the high school youths gather for a night of drinking and the terrifying buzz killington kicks down the door demanding to know whether they have considered the value of labor, scarcity of resources, and supply and demand. They beg for mercy, but buzz killington doesn't trade in pleas, only well-regulated currency backed by trusted financial institutions.
The teens never stood a chance. . .
[and yes, this is to be read with the cadence of Rob Cantor's "Shia LaBeouf"]
@@IcarusGames I'm just trying to make a slasher-horror where the players can intuitively understand the value of a gp. 🤷♂