Know this old boy who flew the 52's from 1955 to 1980. He flew everything from Chrome dome to Arc Light, B model through H model. When I asked him if he had it to do all over again, he was quick to assure me that he loved all 30 years in the USAF, from his enlisted years through his officer candidate training up to being a wing commander. He was from an era of men we will never see again!
Don is my father in law, and I knew about him via his book before I met my wife, Jennifer Harten (now Woodul) , however I did not know that Don was her father until after I met her and fell in love- Imagine my delight and suprise when I found out this fact. Don lived the life of a hard pressing warrior mostly I feel as a result of his 'survivors guilt' being one of the few surviving crewmembers of that fateful night over the South China Sea during a Typhoon. 2 plane accidents (the Rescue Albatross hit a big wave and broke up and sank after he was finally picked up). Completing his first tour and then a second in the Buff was quite enough, but to move on to the Republic F-105 for another 2 tours then to go to the General Dynamics F-111A and do yet another takes the cake as far as I am concerned. Literally being there from the beginning and on the last day of the Air War in SEA is telling to his dedication and fortitude. Don also pushed a problem with the F-111A's Terrain Following Radar system to the point of personally writing to the president of the United States was certainly bold and a huge risk (going over the heads of superiors that did not want to rock the boat)- the outcome being sent to be one of the USAF DCMA Acceptance Test Pilots flying, accepting and delivering brand new F-111s (including the final Aardvark built) was his reward despite the waves that impassioned letter to the president risked. Finally his posting to RAF Upper Heyford, as a D.O. for the 20th TFW capped out his time in the USAF. Don is an honorable man, who served his country and fellow servicemen and women- and he has solely dealt with alot of PTSD as a result of alot that he encountered and saw happen along the way. He, my own father (a US Navy Pilot and Viet Nam veteran, and most of their compatriots have spent years trying to reconcile the failures and horrendous mistakes and often foolish decision making of certain military leaders and politicians from that era. These gentlemen fought hard and with vigor all the while their lives and the lives of those they fought along side of were sent to battle with unusually absurd Rules of Engagement and even betrayal of information being given to the enemy....and then a large portion of the homeland population treating them with contempt upon returning home. I have always felt a special feeling of awe and honor towards this wars participants for doing what they did under such conditions. I can assure you that not a day goes by that they do not think about it. I as a result will never forget it either..I do not blame them for the political and military mistakes committed during that long and painful time in the 60s and early 70s. Thank you for your service Don and thanks to the producers of this series for making them and also presenting them for everyone via You Tube.
That video kept me listening to every word. Thanks to Don for sharing his experiences but more for doing his duty. How we all wish they had hit that initial B-52 target in 65, and hit it hard. I'll be buying Don's book.
I. Arc Light 1 I did some research on my own, and the initial plans for Arc Light 1 called for a strike 30 B-52's on Phuc Yen airfield. For one reason or another, it was amended to attacks on jungle fortifications in Vietnam (and eventually everything from air-support, interdiction, to strategic bombing). Though the mid-air collision was clearly a disaster, the rest of the B-52's actually did a decent job: With the exception of one aircraft, all dropped inside the target-box wiping out pretty much all life in the area (where enemies were located). II. NVN-AF Heads Up from Swiss Embassy Actually this would explain why so many aircraft were lost to AAA. Some losses were probably inevitable (attacks on SAM sites), but some of these evidently were the result of this. III. Hanoi & Haiphong Raids A. Tactics For attacks on the USSR, we had planned to periodically change heading every certain number of minutes and seconds with chaffing, jamming (even decoys) to overwhelm enemy air-defenses and reduce the odds of large casualties. This tactic was actually called a "basket weave". There was a desire by the 8th AF to implement this, but it was rejected from Omaha. The decision to have the cells one behind the other might very well have been SAC's decision as well as political demands. The B-52's were out of production and all had nuclear commitments: They didn't want them lost to possible mid-air collisions with each other (unfortunately, this made them vulnerable to mid-air collisions with SA-2's). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- B. Goals The goal was to coerce the NVN government to go back to the negotiating table, and to get our POW's back: Had we set out to flatten Hanoi and Haiphong, we'd have killed our POW's, though we'd have probably been able to turn the cities into another Tokyo, Hamburg, or Dresden -- we would have likely used incendiaries in substantial amounts (most likely carrying them in the internal bay). IV. Crosswind & Takeoff A. Crosswind I'm sure everybody knows this one, but in crosswinds, you bank into the direction of the wind and that results in your nose pointing away from the center-line: The sideways flying motion is actually called crabbing based on the way crabs walk sideways. Usually you'd use the rudder to straighten yourself back out before you touch down, though the B-52 might not have needed to do this, simply steering the wheels on the ground. ------------------------------------------------------------------- B. Takeoff The reason the aircraft would takeoff tail first and fly nose down had to do with the huge angle of incidence of the wings. The aircraft wasn't really rotated off in the traditional fashion and as the speed went up, the angle of attack went down, and you'd end up with the rear wheels coming off at first. Once in the air you'd be flying at an even lower angle and this would actually have the nose pointing down, the tail sticking up, and the wings riding right where they're supposed to be. The B-47 was built around the same way. V. Terrain Following Autopilot That's fascinating... and rather horrifying. I'm relieved that somebody had the cojones to raise a stink over the problem.
I'll never forget being on final approach in a B-52 looking out the SIDE WINDOW. I thought: "How the hell am I gonna land this thing....What the hell do I do now?"
I am going to get angry again, this was the worst our Country has ever fought a war and screwed everyone in the Military and the people of The US. Thank you for your honesty and service. Mather AFB Big B-52 base back then!
Ssgt. Scott, I agree something is amiss here. There were 52's there when we arrived in April '65 with our 52's from Carswell AFB. The first mission was flown after we arrived and relieved the maintenance troops from California. I don't remember which base they were from but they were gone by the time the first bombing mission was flown. Our first TDY was supposed to be for 90 days, I let all the married guys rotate before I went back to Texas until December when we went back. We flew a lot of missions off that stinking rock. After finishing that TDY and returning to Ft. Worth I got orders to Thailand for my last year. Silly AF personnel decision changed me to RF-101's. When I found out they had created a 52 base in Thailand I was so mad I refused to re-enlist. Thus ending a career in the USAF. Jim Fletchall Stantonville, TN
Think one of the most interesting points made by Mr. Harten that seems to exist to today is the failure of leadership to address problems with aircraft as pilots encounter them. One example is with oxygen generator problems that caused hypoxia in the F-22 to the point where pilots were refusing to fly the aircraft. The military-industrial complex in the US is very insular and not very accepting of any criticism. Excellent stories & will be looking for Mr. Harten's book.
The real reason for the Vietnam war was very simple actually. Trustworthiness and reliability. The soviets where trying to drive a wedge between America and the European NATO allies. The faith of the allies in USA was crumbling with many governments openly doubting the USA would come to their aid. So when south vietnam asked for help, USA officials felt necessary to come to their aid (regardless of the region holding no resource interests) in order to maintain the picture of american reliability to the allies in europe.The gulf of tonkin incident (the fake August 4 one, not the real in august 2)was just there to give a legal/political justification. Its pretty irrelevant. History is not written in "if's" but i cant help but wonder how the geopolitical environment would have unfolded if the americans didnt participate in vietnam.
Well, I was there and unless I misunderstand this man, they did not fly any missions from guam after they landed in Feb1965 until around the first of Jun1965, they did run two b-52's together over the south china Sea, I was a young SSgt Crew chief and Parked the very first one, all B52 F models, so something is screwy here with his speech
I saw a quotation from General Giap (Dunno if that is his name, the NVA head honcho) who said "If you guys did not stop the B52 bombing we would have surrendered" but I think he was referring to the bombing to get the NVA to the peace talks in the '70's. Either way, I think no country would not surrender if the B52's start carpet bombing.
I broke my back in a parachute landing. My back bone broke away from my pelvis and dropped down 3 inches. 20 years later, the VA doctor asked me: "Didn't you realize you were 3 inches shorter?" (you dumb s--t?). Well...I hadn't! I never knew it happened until shortly before that visit. But the doctor said: "Where's your proof that that landing broke your back?". Obviously I didn't have any. So the VA never paid me for the problem...or even tried to fix it. As we used to say: "That's life in the big city!"
Know this old boy who flew the 52's from 1955 to 1980. He flew everything from Chrome dome to Arc Light, B model through H model. When I asked him if he had it to do all over again, he was quick to assure me that he loved all 30 years in the USAF, from his enlisted years through his officer candidate training up to being a wing commander. He was from an era of men we will never see again!
Don is my father in law, and I knew about him via his book before I met my wife, Jennifer Harten (now Woodul) , however I did not know that Don was her father until after I met her and fell in love- Imagine my delight and suprise when I found out this fact.
Don lived the life of a hard pressing warrior mostly I feel as a result of his 'survivors guilt' being one of the few surviving crewmembers of that fateful night over the South China Sea during a Typhoon. 2 plane accidents (the Rescue Albatross hit a big wave and broke up and sank after he was finally picked up).
Completing his first tour and then a second in the Buff was quite enough, but to move on to the Republic F-105 for another 2 tours then to go to the General Dynamics F-111A and do yet another takes the cake as far as I am concerned. Literally being there from the beginning and on the last day of the Air War in SEA is telling to his dedication and fortitude.
Don also pushed a problem with the F-111A's Terrain Following Radar system to the point of personally writing to the president of the United States was certainly bold and a huge risk (going over the heads of superiors that did not want to rock the boat)- the outcome being sent to be one of the USAF DCMA Acceptance Test Pilots flying, accepting and delivering brand new F-111s (including the final Aardvark built) was his reward despite the waves that impassioned letter to the president risked. Finally his posting to RAF Upper Heyford, as a D.O. for the 20th TFW capped out his time in the USAF. Don is an honorable man, who served his country and fellow servicemen and women- and he has solely dealt with alot of PTSD as a result of alot that he encountered and saw happen along the way. He, my own father (a US Navy Pilot and Viet Nam veteran, and most of their compatriots have spent years trying to reconcile the failures and horrendous mistakes and often foolish decision making of certain military leaders and politicians from that era. These gentlemen fought hard and with vigor all the while their lives and the lives of those they fought along side of were sent to battle with unusually absurd Rules of Engagement and even betrayal of information being given to the enemy....and then a large portion of the homeland population treating them with contempt upon returning home. I have always felt a special feeling of awe and honor towards this wars participants for doing what they did under such conditions. I can assure you that not a day goes by that they do not think about it. I as a result will never forget it either..I do not blame them for the political and military mistakes committed during that long and painful time in the 60s and early 70s. Thank you for your service Don and thanks to the producers of this series for making them and also presenting them for everyone via You Tube.
That video kept me listening to every word. Thanks to Don for sharing his experiences but more for doing his duty. How we all wish they had hit that initial B-52 target in 65, and hit it hard. I'll be buying Don's book.
What a fantastic gentleman. This was a great upload and thanks for sharing. Best wishes from England.
In a nutshell, the real enemy during the Vietnam war was: Washington D.C. politicians!
Yes..it drug out because of cold war politics..garbage if u ask me
Wow, what an awesome story. Thanks for your service, you badass.
I enjoyed the video very much and thank's for your service.
He kinda rambles but I understand how ptsd works. Glad I stuck around to the very end, the last minute makes the whole lecture worth watching.
What a great story. Thank you for your service Sir.
More than fantastic - stories that have to be told.
Really fascinating video!
I. Arc Light 1
I did some research on my own, and the initial plans for Arc Light 1 called for a strike 30 B-52's on Phuc Yen airfield. For one reason or another, it was amended to attacks on jungle fortifications in Vietnam (and eventually everything from air-support, interdiction, to strategic bombing). Though the mid-air collision was clearly a disaster, the rest of the B-52's actually did a decent job: With the exception of one aircraft, all dropped inside the target-box wiping out pretty much all life in the area (where enemies were located).
II. NVN-AF Heads Up from Swiss Embassy
Actually this would explain why so many aircraft were lost to AAA. Some losses were probably inevitable (attacks on SAM sites), but some of these evidently were the result of this.
III. Hanoi & Haiphong Raids
A. Tactics
For attacks on the USSR, we had planned to periodically change heading every certain number of minutes and seconds with chaffing, jamming (even decoys) to overwhelm enemy air-defenses and reduce the odds of large casualties. This tactic was actually called a "basket weave". There was a desire by the 8th AF to implement this, but it was rejected from Omaha. The decision to have the cells one behind the other might very well have been SAC's decision as well as political demands. The B-52's were out of production and all had nuclear commitments: They didn't want them lost to possible mid-air collisions with each other (unfortunately, this made them vulnerable to mid-air collisions with SA-2's).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B. Goals
The goal was to coerce the NVN government to go back to the negotiating table, and to get our POW's back: Had we set out to flatten Hanoi and Haiphong, we'd have killed our POW's, though we'd have probably been able to turn the cities into another Tokyo, Hamburg, or Dresden -- we would have likely used incendiaries in substantial amounts (most likely carrying them in the internal bay).
IV. Crosswind & Takeoff
A. Crosswind
I'm sure everybody knows this one, but in crosswinds, you bank into the direction of the wind and that results in your nose pointing away from the center-line: The sideways flying motion is actually called crabbing based on the way crabs walk sideways. Usually you'd use the rudder to straighten yourself back out before you touch down, though the B-52 might not have needed to do this, simply steering the wheels on the ground.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
B. Takeoff
The reason the aircraft would takeoff tail first and fly nose down had to do with the huge angle of incidence of the wings. The aircraft wasn't really rotated off in the traditional fashion and as the speed went up, the angle of attack went down, and you'd end up with the rear wheels coming off at first. Once in the air you'd be flying at an even lower angle and this would actually have the nose pointing down, the tail sticking up, and the wings riding right where they're supposed to be. The B-47 was built around the same way.
V. Terrain Following Autopilot
That's fascinating... and rather horrifying. I'm relieved that somebody had the cojones to raise a stink over the problem.
Nice follow-up; thanks -- enjoyed it.
I'll never forget being on final approach in a B-52 looking out the SIDE WINDOW. I thought: "How the hell am I gonna land this thing....What the hell do I do now?"
I am going to get angry again, this was the worst our Country has ever fought a war and screwed everyone in the Military and the people of The US. Thank you for your honesty and service. Mather AFB Big B-52 base back then!
Ssgt. Scott, I agree something is amiss here. There were 52's there when we arrived in April '65 with our 52's from Carswell AFB. The first mission was flown after we arrived and relieved the maintenance troops from California. I don't remember which base they were from but they were gone by the time the first bombing mission was flown. Our first TDY was supposed to be for 90 days, I let all the married guys rotate before I went back to Texas until December when we went back. We flew a lot of missions off that stinking rock. After finishing that TDY and returning to Ft. Worth I got orders to Thailand for my last year. Silly AF personnel decision changed me to RF-101's. When I found out they had created a 52 base in Thailand I was so mad I refused to re-enlist. Thus ending a career in the USAF.
Jim Fletchall
Stantonville, TN
Fantastic guy
Kudos to you Sir!
Think one of the most interesting points made by Mr. Harten that seems to exist to today is the failure of leadership to address problems with aircraft as pilots encounter them. One example is with oxygen generator problems that caused hypoxia in the F-22 to the point where pilots were refusing to fly the aircraft. The military-industrial complex in the US is very insular and not very accepting of any criticism. Excellent stories & will be looking for Mr. Harten's book.
Reminds me of the torpedo problems in WW2 - the Buro of Ordinance wouldn't believe the people at the sharp end for a loooong time.
I can't imagine being on the ground when a b52 hits ya and I don't think she's ugly at all
was this the collision that gen. crumm was killed in.
A real hero
A freaking crazy story...
Very interesting
The real reason for the Vietnam war was very simple actually. Trustworthiness and reliability. The soviets where trying to drive a wedge between America and the European NATO allies. The faith of the allies in USA was crumbling with many governments openly doubting the USA would come to their aid. So when south vietnam asked for help, USA officials felt necessary to come to their aid (regardless of the region holding no resource interests) in order to maintain the picture of american reliability to the allies in europe.The gulf of tonkin incident (the fake August 4 one, not the real in august 2)was just there to give a legal/political justification. Its pretty irrelevant. History is not written in "if's" but i cant help but wonder how the geopolitical environment would have unfolded if the americans didnt participate in vietnam.
Well, I was there and unless I misunderstand this man, they did not fly any missions from guam after they landed in Feb1965 until around the first of Jun1965, they did run two b-52's together over the south china Sea, I was a young SSgt Crew chief and Parked the very first one, all B52 F models, so something is screwy here with his speech
Wilson Scott this guy’s story has a lot of extreme exaggerations.
@@Veteran_Aviator Your F.O.S. my friend!!!
6:34 The war would have not ended right there.
I saw a quotation from General Giap (Dunno if that is his name, the NVA head honcho) who said "If you guys did not stop the B52 bombing we would have surrendered" but I think he was referring to the bombing to get the NVA to the peace talks in the '70's. Either way, I think no country would not surrender if the B52's start carpet bombing.
We sold the old bomb shells as scrap to Germany for 1.70 and had to buy em back for 21 buks
There is no excuse for two planes having a mid-air.
I broke my back in a parachute landing. My back bone broke away from my pelvis and dropped down 3 inches. 20 years later, the VA doctor asked me: "Didn't you realize you were 3 inches shorter?" (you dumb s--t?). Well...I hadn't! I never knew it happened until shortly before that visit. But the doctor said: "Where's your proof that that landing broke your back?". Obviously I didn't have any. So the VA never paid me for the problem...or even tried to fix it. As we used to say: "That's life in the big city!"