Heathen vs Pagan
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- In this video I'm not going to explore which neo-pagan person is better than the other, no, not at all. Due to the title, I'm sure many people came to see this video believing in that. This video is about the use of the terms "Pagan" and "Heathen", exploring the origins of the terms, the meanings, the historical developments and the implications of using them and why we should or should not use them nowadays to designate those who practice or follow modern religious manifestations, either reconstructionisms or New-Age constructions of pre-Christian and non-Abrahamic systems of belief.
Introduction - 00:00
World-accepting Views - 06:05
Problem with Pagan identity - 20:17
Pagan - 27:11
Heathen - 42:38
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(make him hoard stones)
#heathen #pagan #paganism
I figure saying "Pagan" or "Heathen" is easier than saying "Practitioner of indigenous Northern European religion."
We can shorten that to 'Piner'. Voila, new word.
@@behemitch8287 that's what i was about to say lmao
"P.I.N.E.R. if you will"
@@behemitch8287 Sure, why not?
Love this! 🤣🥰
My ancestors are America's Indigenous people. We were called heathens, savages, red devils etc. I'm quite proud of my heathen ancestry.
American Indigenous are Animists.
@@danyellerobinson5940 Yep
A "pagan" is generally anyone who is non-Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and/or polytheistic in their religious/spiritual/cultural path, like Hindus and Buddhists, just to name the most well known. "Heathen" is specifically referring to those practitioners of pre-Christian Germanic Tribal religion, be it historical reconstructionism or any of the New Age groups (Asatru, AFA, Troth, TAC, etc.). And of course, both "pagan" AND "heathen" (lower-case H) have evolved over centuries to be derogatory terms used as a means to remind/reinforce the supposed inferiority of anyone who is not a follower of "the BIG three" Abrahamic faiths mentioned above. Hope this helps to clear things up for everyone reading this.
Added for Kristin: there is a common connection between most ancient tribal religions, and that is ancestor veneration. It's what connects us to our path. I have much respect for the Natives here in the USA for their pow wows and cultural education, as they are connected to their ancestors. I have always appreciated Native American culture from boyhood on (the old "cowboys and Indians" game), and while serving in the US Air Force, I was the committee president/member for our local National American Indian Heritage Month each year in VA and ID. I have zero Native blood, but 100% Native respect.
@@HroduuulfSonOfHrodger sending you lots of love. Thank you xx
Respect to our indigenous natives in North America , May you thrive and bless us
With your wisdom and teachings . Your rich culture is our savior.
Great video, Arith. Here in Wales, I've heard the phrase "the old ways" used instead of pagan or heathen. I quite like it, but I don't think it will catch on.
It is a common saying and has been for many years.
Croeso! Dw i mwynhau dysgu Cymraeg.
Mos Maiorvm 😉
I like it. It sounds pleasant.
Among some Native American Tribes that's the way things have always been described.
Don’t worry, there are plenty of us out here without our heads stuck in the sand. Thanks for the great video.
This is one of the most elegant and well portrayed version and statements I have ever heard.. Considering that English is also not your native language is adding to the respect of your statements. Well said and could not have said it better myself.. I just dont bother telling anyone anymore my "belief" or "world view" simply because its wasted.
4 years already!? Congratulations! Also thanks for another awesome video
Greetings from Dallas Texas. Thank you for your channel 💖
Wow - wow wow --- i just went to that mans' page and listened to a poem song - He is wonderful - thank you Arith for telling us about him
I once was called a godless heathen by a "cough" man of the cloth.(christian).
I politely responded with " while I'm not godless, I have many more gods than you do"
Followed by "But I am a Heathen".
Man of the cloth ? You would have to of made an appearance in church for this to have to be true so you are a heathen for lying is what has made you honest for sharing.
And then everyone clapped
A man of the cloth usually means that he's a Catholic
@@epic6434 read my update and decide for yourself
@@epic6434 a person needs not ever step foot inside a church to know that a "man of the cloth" is a phrase that refers to a Christian, whatever flavour they may be.
I would love to hear you and Ocean Keltoi have a discussion over this.
You both are learned men and the similarities and differences would be fascinating.
Thanks Arith, I really appreciate how thorough you are in your explanations on these subjects. Your great patience in revealing all these hidden truths is phenomenal. Keep up the good work.
4 YEARS OF LEARNING...THANK YOU
Wonderful lecture. Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge with us. Hope you have a wonderful holiday season.
At this point in my journey I just call myself "frustrated". But the feet trudge on.
Great video and topic as always my friend. I've been watching for 4 years and you have definitely helped me learn about the different paths laid out before me. I'm still stumbling a bit but thanks to your guidance I have a greater understanding of where I need to be. Thank you some much Arith
Dude, you crack me up! I like how you just matter of factor just slip in little literal statements into your dialogue. The one that made me pause to laugh and type this was when you said that the first question you’re a,ways asked is Hi Arithmetic, how are you? And the second question is …. Very subtle humor. 🤣
Very enjoyable video as usual! Thank you for another fascinating discourse. Arith! I always look forward to these, even if I haven’t had much time of late to be up to date.
I prefer being called a heathen, and my spirituality I personally call Heathenry. Great video
A "pagan" is generally anyone who is non-Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and/or polytheistic in their religious/spiritual/cultural path, like Hindus and Buddhists, just to name the most well known. "Heathen" is specifically referring to those practitioners of pre-Christian Germanic/Norse Tribal religion, be it historical reconstructionism or any of the New Age groups (Asatru, AFA, Troth, TAC, etc.). And of course, both "pagan" AND "heathen" (lower-case H) have evolved over centuries to be derogatory terms used as a means to remind/reinforce the supposed inferiority of anyone who is not a follower of "the BIG three" Abrahamic faiths mentioned above. Hope this helps to clear things up for everyone reading this.
@@HroduuulfSonOfHrodger I don't think Buddhists or Hindus consider themselves Pagan. After all, their purpose is to transcend the world and their physical selves in order to graduate to another dimension and ultimately become a God.
@@HroduuulfSonOfHrodger you didn't comprehend this video, did you?
@@HroduuulfSonOfHrodger I think you got that backwards my friend
@@wolfmauler I'm saying to a Christian, if you are not a believer in their Abrahamic faiths, you are considered a pagan (and sometimes a heathen with a little "h"). I don't call people pagan. I could care less. All I care about is my Heathen (big "H") path of the Germanic and Nordic tribes.
Just found your channel and I love it. Very rich with content and I appreciate the balance of how you view everything.
Congratulations on your fourth year. Love your content. Here’s to the next 4 years 👍
Wow, caught this early! Great stuff, thanks Arith!
I am enthralled by your knowledge. Thank you!!! And I love that you advise to question all sources.
Congratulations for all your work, could here say so many things about the so much I have learned, but I think I could not describe with justice.
Thank you for continuing, please continue!! 🤗
You’re work is wonderful Arith! Love you! Keep up the great work.
Thanks you for sharing, Loved the lesson and congratulations on 4 years.🙏✌
This is beautifully in-depth and academic! Thank you
You needed to do this years ago. Thank you.
I love how thorough you go about everything you talk about in your videos
Arith: 1) I love that you're distinguishing between world accepting and world-denying (and I think that subject needs more attention), 2) In addition, maybe you could address man's relation to gods and nature whether victim, competitor, or peer 3) In my work on religion I distinguish between informal natural (heathen), formal archetypal(pagan), and institutional authoritarian (artificial monotheistic) religion. But this only demarcates by formality. -thank you for your work.
The Abrahamic Faiths are *NOT* truly monotheistic. The Commandments of Moses do not say "There are no other gods," but rather "Thou shalt have no other gods *before me."*
@@frankmueller2781 Sure, that's the original Jewish. Tell that the Christians and Muslims. ;) Severity increased as Abrahamism evolved.
Islam is the natural consequence of supernatural Abrahamism just as marxism, communism, socialism, neo-marxism, pomo, pc-woke, hbd-denial, crtical race theory, anti-whiteness, are the natural consequence of pseudoscientific abrahamism.
Both the first montheistic religions of the zoroastrians and the fully monotheistic religions of the abrahamic old world and finally the new world are the same: They are rebellions against evolution by the indo european peoples, and their success at discovery, adaptation to, and application of the laws of the universe, especially the 'gentle' genetic pacification and domestication of less evolved peoples by continuing natural selection using market meritocracy in every aspect of life.
Sophistry, philosophy, and theology ask us to believe a thing is what it claims, rather than the results of its claims.
A thing is not what it claims any more than an individual behaves as he claims, or even believes as he claims.
A thing is what it does.
@@TheNaturalLawInstitute “the consequence of supernatural Abrahamism just as Marxism, communism, socialism...”
Yes! I’ve been thinking about that for a while now. It seems so obvious, yet so close under our noses that many wouldn’t see. I didn’t know others thought the same. Is this a well researched area? Is there a term for it?
Thank you. I love hearing the historical facts behind what so many just take at face value and use freely without any thought to origins and true meaning.
Thank You Arith, I have added you to much of my studies. And you have been part of my Book of Shadows = Study Journal for quite some time. Thank You for the education. Rusty.
Thank you for another quality video Arith
Just came across you channel a few days ago and I can not tell you how much I have been enjoying your videos. This one really gave me a lot to think about. I really enjoy your concise and thoughtful approach. Looking forward to digging around in the Archives :)
For a job regarding Paganism teachings recently, I was asked to explain my religion - they told me I was into "heathenry" because of my beliefs and I was actually offended. You video explained why I felt that way.
I've been learning so much from your videos, thank you for the informative uploads!
Thank you Arith for this clarifying video!!!❤️
I have to say again that out of all i have found concerning this subject on YT that you Sir Arith are the most in depth and over all clear and well balanced to someone such as myself as we all know that there are plenty who want to be the best and not for the right reason's.
Thank you again for another great explanation.
Happy tree in the background. Appreciate the education in these matters. My own conclusions require input such as yours. Thank you!
Morning tea on a rainy day with Yoda and Arith. Hey, Arith. How are you? Lol 😉
Lovely yule tree.
Love your videos! So wise! (good decoration)
So insightful and really helpful, especially around world view ideas of animism, shamanism etc. Appreciated!
This is outstanding, Arith. Thank you for your work.
A wonderful video ! As always thank you for these great lessons !! I am waiting for the video about Dagaz Rune! I hope you do it soon !!
Wonderful and very informative video, thank you, Arith.
It's been a long time since I have dropped you a line, but thank you Arith. I've been following the channel for maybe two and a half, to three years, prior to the four year anniversary. I'm glad to assume, through the lense of your camera, that you are doing well. I am even happier to see, that you have hardly changed. That whitch you have changed, again, since the beginning, only speaks to your growth, your quest for knowledge and understanding, and/or the reliance on you by others, as an authoritative source of information. I will never tire of your insight, nore your perspective, as many of us seek the answers, to the very same questions, that our ancestors asked. Keep digging my friend. Nienn blota, neinn sigr.
This was fascinating, thank you for the breakdown.
This definitely was a bit of an upgrade to the knowledge I had of both terms! Thanks for uploading!
Though I'll admit to identifying as both / either in my past 10 years of practice 😅
Though Heathen was used more among ourselves and the rest of the local overall pagan community
RUclips brought me to you today. I've subscribed. Thank you for your presentation.
This is a great video lecture. Thanks.
I love all the information you share in all your videos I really appreciate it!
I didn't know that you are a archeologist. That is amazing now I know why. Your videos are the best.
Arith, that was a fantastic presentation my friend. I also cannot deny that I have used the term "heathen" many times before to describe my belief system, but it's indeed very usefull to know the actual meaning behind it, instead of just attaching it to oneself or someone else's belief systems without having a clear idea where it comes from, what it means, and how it developed. Though, in the end we're all Animistic Heathen Pagans! :D Cheers buddy!
Another great video Arith.
This was one of your best and most passionate videos. Well done, young man. Gud Yul!
*God Jul
Excellent content. I learned a lot once again. Thank you.
Awesome video! I love your channel.
As usual, amazing video. THANK YOU
again i must say..... a superb lecture.... thought provoking
Another awesome video. I have learned so much from this channel. Thanks for all that you do. I personally have always used the term pagan when explaining my religious practices to others. Mainly because while I do use a lot of the Norse tradition in my personal practice. I also mix it with Celtic and some wiccan practices and rituals. So for me I have always just used the term pagan or Eclectic pagan as I feel these better fit me. But I absolutely love learning more about these terms and the history of them. Keep up the great work.
Fantastic video thanks for this. 💜🖤
Only 6 minutes in, I’m excited for the rest of the video. Sigurboði is awesome! I listen to some of his music and have heard him in a couple podcasts. You need to get on to the Nordic Mythology Podcast!! I think you’d have a good time, both Mathias and Daniel love to point out BS and find the truth of the matter just like you do, it’d be a wonderfully offensive time🤣
Hope you’re well Arith. Happy Haligdaegs!
Tack för idag Arith 😄
wow. cool video. so glad I finished the entire video I feel so filled with a wealth of knowledge now. 💜 I have Sami background on my mom's side. Im looking more into this Heidr.
My name is Hayden and it so so cool to see the history of my name come alive like this. For the longest time I was stuck in the English translation but having mostly Germanic roots, the fiery heathen meaning is a lot more impressive of a story to tell throughout history than a barn for storing hay.
Tack för idag! ~
Very interesting. Thank you for going into detail on that. I guess that makes me none of the above.
I'm good with that.
Love the video, thank you. When I feel like I can't or shouldn't use the term "Pagan" to describe my spiritual practice to someone I often will say I have an "Earth Based" spiritual belief system.
I do the same thing, but personally I've no issue with the term 'Pagan.' I think some Heathens like Arith just don't want to be lumped in w/ the term 'Neo-Pagan' (another term I'm fine with) because it brings up stereotypes of supposedly clueless, new-agey, wiccan-wannabes, which is unfortunate. People have to start somewhere.
Fantastic so clear and precise and honest thank you so much
Wonderful analysis. I've often used 'heathen' only as a secondary illustrative term when explaining the meaning of 'pagan' as describing the rural folk or "country bumpkins."
My first impulse is to say you have overthought this, but I guess somebody has to.
Thank you so much some the detailed history of these words.
Arith, the first question also needs to be studied as well🤔😂. Putting this aside, this is a great video just like every video you have done. Thank you for this.
Very interesting. Now: Hey, Arith. How are you? 🤔 Also, blessed 4th channelversary 💙💜
Thank you so much for making this point .. truthful with out being disrespectful. You are right .. its easy to be part if the problem and complain about it .. its hard to be part of the solution.
Thank you for sharing your Society 6 info in a recent video... I ordered The Forest of Nemetius, and it just arrived yesterday! Love it! ... I recommend people go check out your works! -- I didn't write down the link, but got there Googling Society 6 and searching by your name.
Perfect. I love how you get after the snobs. No one can define our personal identities and people say the darndest things on social media. They don't understand the difference between self actualization/empowerment and what to follow in their perosonal lives. And since the vast majority of us are white so they bring this intellectual snobbery which creates divisions. Even the "anti-fascist" types. In the world...I am a Norse pagan. When I'm mad at Christians...I am Heathen. In witch circles I am a Norse hedgewitch. My healing magic is shamanism. I also have Buddhist and Hindu influence in my life and I worship Gods outside the Norse/Germanic pantheon and it enriches my life. So eff off...all you simpletons who use arrogance to dictate their lives. Great video Arith...thanks.
I have always used the term Pagan when describing my belief. I don’t think of it in negative terms.
Thank you for trying to explain it.
Hey Arith , how are you?😄
hahahahahahah
LoL 😂
This is very interesting stuff. I feel like a lot of people have never thought about any of this
Good video.
Language is a living entity and sometimes derogatory terms are claimed by those they originally mocked (linguistic reappropriation). Due to this proclaiming yourself to be heathen might actually be empowering for some ;-)
thank you for these explanations it was most informative ! I really do not like to label myself, I am not keen on boxes , but as the old saying goes ' a rose by any other name will still smell as sweet ' :)
Thank you for this video!!!
Love your stuff kick on love it
Brilliant video!
Neo-Pagan, revival path, revival movement, old ways, new age. However lets face facts that most recognize "pagan" best. At the end of the day folks will use the term that they feel most comfortable with.
However if we look at the areas that Norse and Scandinavian. Specially Iceland (as my grandmother is Icelandic and I have studied more of Icelandic lore which also has more written records). They didn't have a specific name. It was part of life. For example "goði" is sometimes translated as "priest" but also as "chief". It was a community leader. Sure there seems to be evidence of larger possible "temples" but most homes seem to have had their own house alter and "ritual" area.
So the idea of no name seems to have been common in some cases. However as is the case most today seem to crave a name or label...one of the reasons I made my video on the subject of names and why it's not important.
great video as always Arith.
Pagan is easier to type.
@@colinp2238 how so? Old ways has one more letter and new age has the same :) but we are also talking about in video
@@BlazeLeeDragon I like Old Ways too, though I'm perfectly fine with Pagan. Arith seems more concerned with Heathen not being lumped in w/ Neo-Pagan.
@@celestepalm6949 indeed
@@BlazeLeeDragon How about Animism? I always figured it meant the same thing: a big umbrella /root term for all other spiritual paths. I prefer Animist myself.
Personally...I like the word "Pagan".
I like it real not pagan or religious
Religion is Satanic
This was very informative. I'm in my journey as a Christian-pagan, and learning these differences helps. Very well explained and annunciated. I can tell english isn't your first language, but you video is well spoken.
Mind to explain your beliefs?
@@libertylovin2359 it's a it tricky to txt it.
I try follow the ideas/concepts christ taught, I do consider the Christian God as the lead god. I do acknowledge other gods, whole also thinking they're all the same 1 god just differed by culture/language. I like the idea of referring to earth as "the goddess" though I don't necessarily think it's alive in the sense that you, me, or a deer are. But we were born of the earth as pagans believe. And technically Christians kinda do too, just not with the same understanding. And it makes sense why people use the phrase "mother earth." It is a pagan idea, just modified. That's just a more basic idea of what I follow. I do prefer to acknowledge yhwh and odin specifically.
One of your best video. Clearly.
What an insightful video! I really enjoyed your in-depth explanations and musings on the topic.
I personally don't like the word Pagan, and really hope more people will acknowledge what it means, was, and is still used for, so I just say "the old ways", or the "old faith", but people are free to say what they want imo.
Thank you, so informative.
Another amazing video Arith !!! :) What about the term " Wyrd " as in " The Wyrd Ones " ? I'm not CERTAIN about it's origin ( or the time the term came ) but it's the first thing that popped into my head when you asked :)
I wonder if the knowledge that Christianity has erased so many other beliefs of the past brings the Christians of today pride or shame.
They don't realize, don't see that they've done anything wrong as they're "saving souls"
Having been raised in the Deep South, I would classify it as a sort of religious ecstasy in some cases. The overwhelming “joy” and pride in “saving souls.” Having had my brush with organized religion before turning back to the more spiritual beliefs of my mother... It feels...Distasteful. Gleefully recounting the erasure of entire cultures and beliefs.
I think they see it as a good thing since their God is the one true God. They have no shame of erasing cultures on their path because they view that they have saved these people by showing them the "truth"
Definitely pride. they still want to do it, annihilate anything not Christian in our current (US) society. Talking about it in public means huge applause
Good morning Arith.
Sometimes i use either term in reference to my beliefs depending on who I'm telling, as "Heathen" means something else to certain people.
(Old people think it means rowdy)
(Bikers think it means in a gang)
People usually think it means one who is "Godless"
@@wolfmauler yes, I've heard most people use it in this context. Christians have stripped the meaning from the words in a way.
@@steakslapn9724 in Russian language, pagan means very bad. I am sure Christian did this change of meaning.
I love your videos I'm a traditional witch and I gotta say your videos give me perspective
Back in 2005 when I attended an event called "Pagan Pride Day" I wondered the same thing...why these people were embracing a term that had such pejorative connotations. Thanks for clearing things up!
I hate when I tell people in my city that I'm Pagan and then having to explain to them that no, not the biker gang.
😂 😂
I really wish there was a super like button for when we watch videos over a few times to really absorb the information. Lol
I'm ok with Heathen (with a capital H), as I see nothing wrong with the heath or nature overall. If the abrahamic see it as an insult, we're even!
In my younger days I definitely was a heathen with or without a capital H, more notably in my time in the army.
A "pagan" is generally anyone who is non-Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and/or polytheistic in their religious/spiritual/cultural path, like Hindus and Buddhists, just to name the most well known. "Heathen" is specifically referring to those practitioners of pre-Christian Germanic/Norse Tribal religion, be it historical reconstructionism or any of the New Age groups (Asatru, AFA, Troth, TAC, etc.). And of course, both "pagan" AND "heathen" (lower-case H) have evolved over centuries to be derogatory terms used as a means to remind/reinforce the supposed inferiority of anyone who is not a follower of "the BIG three" Abrahamic faiths mentioned above. Hope this helps to clear things up for everyone reading this.
thank you for acknowledging pre-pagan practices
Very good. Very educational. 👍
Thank you arith.
Fabulous, simply marvelous! Keep them coming, do not relent
To answer the paganus vs soldiers of Christ. (Christians) Just as the Jews saw themselves as Divine Clerics Christians adopted that notion, and had a spirituality of Divine Warrior/Angel because every Christian was seen as a vessel or temple of God. (Spiritual possession, very similar to oracles) which was the very reason, why idolatry was seen as such an affront. For instance Thor had the same traits as Baal. You cannot have two thundergods in your life, because Yahveh also had those attributes, especially in the story of Eliyah bringing fire from heaven. It was an ideological problem and existential or socio-economical. For instance, in the region of the Baltics and Estonia, the Hanza Union needed our ports, to do business with Moskovia; thus they couldn't have afforded a pagan culture in here, who could rise up or demand toll! Thus the region was subjected and Christianized. In these matters greed; political and religious ambitions came interchangably... That was also the reason, why the Christian church hated shamanism so much... A Cup cannot be filled by coffee and mead at the same time! Which is sad. We could have learned much from those cultures... :S :v :o In Estonia they would be called Old Nick or Vanapagan (the devil) who got conned by Sly-Jack (Kaval-Ants) and Hay-Pope (Rehepapp)
I'm a newer viewer of yours only been aware of your channel for about half a year, and I have a question. Do you have a podcast by any chance? Or recommend any with similar topics of yours?