You can put some text in the design "JLJLJL..." And they will place the customer number in that position apparently. So you could hide it under a chip or something. Don't know if you can remove it completely though.
Huh, that's clever I recall from the factory tour someone made, they have people reviewing the designs and numbering stuff; that's not automated, so it prolly depends if the guy had his wheaties that morning
Also they say if you choose "Panel by JLPCB" when ordering they will put it on the edges of the panel that you break off anyway so you can hide it completely support.jlcpcb.com/article/28-how-to-remove-the-customer-id-on-the-pcb
Interesting. You usually do this with manufacture panel notes, but cheap proto houses like this usually ignore them. You are relying on someone in the loop to see that and change it, so I wouldn't rely on that.
5 years on, and they are still a great company. Every board I've ordered from them i've been more than happy with. Truly a good company to deal with and they care about quality. Prices are still excellent.
The slight tracking of the screenprint looks like the disk-roller marks when you use a non absorbent medium in an inkjet printer. I wonder if it's been printed in a dedicated inkjet style system
It's worth noting, JLCPCB has garnered a lot of goodwill in the hobbyist community. They sponsor like 90% of the small RUclips electronics channels. That might seem shady if they weren't good, but they genuinely offer a pretty great product and good service as well.
5 years after this video, they improved enormously. they are excellent. you can omit the order number, silkscreen is very improved, and tons of other things. Indeed you pointed out a very true in the start of the video: with such quality and prices, it doesn't make ANY sense to make PCBs home. Great stuff for great prices.
Economy of scale with a world class dedicated manufacturer operating in a country where labor is extremely low and the processes are all still nearly completely automated. There are a few videos inside JLC doing a complete job and their facilities are impressive to say the least. No expense spared and thats saying a lot for a Chinese mega-manufacturer. Thanks for the video Dave!
as an electrical engineering student who does a lot of personal projects because making things is also a hobby, JLC pcb is amazing. like, my design capability went from "whatever i can hand solder" to "whatever i can fit on a pcb" which was a massive upgrade, plus 2 layer boards are always $20 delivered and arrive within 7 days everytime. Seriously it's difficult to not talk about JLCPCB without sounding like a shill.
Stranger Parts visited the factory and made a video about the whole manufacturing process. They showed there are two different method for putting the writings to the pcb, for bigger volumes they use the silkscreen method with stencil, but for small volumes they are using inkjet printing indeed.
I've toured quite a few of the Shenzhen PCB plants, and it does get monotonous after a while. The guides all go through the same routine, and they look practically identical on the insides (this was for work, so i had to go). The biggest thing I took out of it was how soul destroying it must be to work on those production lines... I also got in trouble at a place for taking photos of the prototype Nvidia 2080 GPUs they were making :)
Is that not the order number?? It has a box u can check to not have it on the board. Look at list of options. Its near bottom of the list. And you can select where you want to put it. But that button doesnt do anything when i push that.
I was actually comparing PCB manufacturers to get some large PCBs made when this video popped up in my feed. Looks like they're getting my business now.
Looks great Dave. I've found the same with my orders from them. Can't justify even messing around trying to make a few cm board for what they charge and how quick they turn around. Great time to be in the electronics world :) Cheers
It really is amazing what you can get for your money. I was impressed with PCBway a year ago, but JLCPCB blows them out of the water when you consider the standard tolerances for JLC are apparently 5/5 thou (I'll be testing that soon), PCB thickness down to 0.6mm is the same price as standard 1.6mm, 0.3mm min drill is standard. The silkscreen may not be up to Dave's standards, but PCBway was very obviously dot matrix, whereas with JLC it's hard to tell without zooming right in, and even then you could put the jaggies down to the surface profile of the fibreglass.
They rejected one of my boards. I gave up trying to fix something that wasn't broke and just sent it to PCBWay. They made it, no problem. Use them all the time now. Glad to see that at least one EE RUclipsr isn't being sponsored by them.
You can even make more boards. I managed to make 80 small boards for 2$! They were small enough to put 8 of them on single board within 10cm by 10cm. And 10 boards of these. Great deal!
I had one design, board was small enough (21mm by 36mm) to use "Panel By JLCPCB" option. You can put two circuits on your board and cut them later, without additional charge, if you manage to fit in size.
only if you require for panelization on each board which will cost more, but if you were to mark out on the silk screen and make you own cutting that will still cost you 10 by 10cm with 10pcs for $2.
Would be interresting to see you measure the capacitance between ground and power plain on a quite big empty board like this. Maybe something for the upcoming comparison video 2 layer versus 4 layer?
Also, The customer ID they slap on the board can be placed optionally anywhere you want by putting "JLCJLCJLCJLC" somewhere in the silkscreen layer. They will make it fit. Or if you have it panalized you can put it on the strip.
There is however a catch, from the JLCPB website: "The font size should be larger than 0.8mm in height and 0.15 mm in width" Or you pay an extra fee, then the number can be removed completely. Third option, you do a panel with frame. Then you can place the JLCJLCJLCJLC string on the frame.
I use them sometimes but they will regularly reject designs with a lot of routing, with no option to pay more to get it done. sometimes they don't even email to tell you - this totally hosed me on one job. IME Allpcb email you for additional payment, and have a lot more options. Costs aren't much different.
i once ordered some 0.6mm pcbs with slots cut out to make them springy, they didnt reject i.imgur.com/ZeViLpQ.png but i allways look at pcbshopper, sometimes jlc isnt the cheapest when adding shipping
I can confirm that as I ordered recently a 4 layer board from them that needed 2Oz copper (70um) and after I paid quite a serious amount for the 2Oz option vs default 1Oz I only got 1Oz and after I mentioned that they tried to convince me that I do not know how to measure copper thickness with accurate 4 wire measurement but agreed to send me another board and that was the same 1Oz (no real communication between manufacturing and sales). I ended up with another PCB manufacturer that did of course made the board with 2Oz (almost 1.78Oz but good enough). I also ordered a similar board that was just 2 layers at the same time from JLC PCB again 2Oz much more expensive but those where 2Oz. Those where 1.6mm thick despite me ordering 1mm using their online tool as they can not make almost anything other than most common 1.6mm. So they are great as they are low cost but only good for simple prototypes and as soon as you want anything different they will not be able to do so or worse send you what they want and no chance to get a refund.
Hi Mike, can you elaborate why it was rejected? I had a board ones reject from them and they told me this message: "But really sorry to tell that the size of your panel is too small to be made, it needs to be 5 .5 cm at least, could you please kindly check?" My board was 10cm x 5.3cm with 1 v-groove.
I think that your designs were hitting hard limits for "Electrical Test" step (respect). They probably can manufacture your boards, but there are so many connections to test that it will clog their manufacturing pipeline if they try to do so. And because it happens fairly seldom, they do not bother adding "no test" option. Edit: Ok, I think simbone (below) is right - "routing" here is milling.
I think they are the best for the money, I had a mistake on 2 vias, I saw this on the their online board viewer (great feature and you can zoom in), I emailed them right but because they put board in production so fast, I though for sure they would not catch it. The board arrived within 1 week here in the USA and they had corrected the issue, so happy with there quality and price. As far as them putting their tracking number on the board, they usually pick a spot under a large component, but not always. I prefer no numbers on the board, but for the price and service I will live with it.
You could have ordered 10 boards and you wouldn't even see the difference in cost! I've ordered two different sets of boards from them. I got 10 boards both times. I paid half of what you did! My boards are green by default. My boards too a week longer to receive but I'm very happy.
Glad you approve Dave. I've used them myself a couple of times. They are a godsend for poor hobbyists such as myself. As you say, no point to etching your own!
There are still benefits to making own PCBs. Weird shapes, single layer board with just dozens of components done in single day and quickly move over. Sometimes you just do PCBs by hand, on a piece of paper, pen and pencil, or even directly on PCB copper layer, and you can eliminate all the software / CAD / gerber / routing complexities, waiting times, custom fees and taxes headaches, failed prototypes, etc. It is not always about the price, but about flexibility and extreme rapid prototyping. If I want I can go through 6 different revision / variants of ideas of a PCB in a single day easily at home.
Some Chinese companies will route the weirdest shape for you dirt cheap, though it's been a couple years since i looked for that specifically. But as to going from idea to a prototype or a one-off product in a day, certainly no business will help you with that at any hobbyist- or small-business-friendly cost, neither in China nor locally, so homebrewing is a good skill to maintain.
For the price they are excellent, I got 30 PCBs made with 3 different designs (10 of each) ordered on the 31st July and they arrived on the 6th August in the UK. All for around $30-$35 including shipping.
Depending on the manufacturing location, some boards made by JLC may have a weak soldermask bond at the edge. When heated, especially when using a iron, some of those near the pads tend to come off.
I have used them for the past year and have had no problems at all. If you want cheaper delivery to the uk use the HK DHL service. It's a shame they don't offer E-packet like pcbway, but they are normally a little more so it's balances out.
I ordered a test batch of 25 boards (150x90mm 2 layer) on 20th. Was meant to be 3 day build time. They only made it into production today (27th). I may stick with ALLPCB if the quality isnt better with JLC. That solder mask alignment was not great.
I've been using JLCPCB like crazy lately. I love Oshpark's AFTER DARK boards, and I order them when I want something special, but JLC is impossible to beat. I've done decent sized boards in nice quantities (a couple dozen) where the cost of the boards was less than freight. Freight for me is like $12 typically, and I figured I'd add on some extra boards just to justify the order. They take solder nice. There's little to dislike. They ship stuff to me from China in about 3 or 4 days. I live on the east coast of the US.
Dave they wont produce your board without an identification number that they choose, But they will put it in a different location if you ask, like under a component
I can confirm that JLCPCB make top notch quality boards. Firs of all their lamination can handle high temperature soldering regardless whether it was specified. Second of all they are fast. One day I placed my order on Wednesday, a DHL courier knocked my door in Sunday noon. Also I can confirm that JLCPCB use robotic probes to test every piece of PCB for galvanic connection/isolation. The traces left by those robotic probes can be seen on SMD soldering pads.
yes. In Melbourne. I got really surprised on that day. "Your DHL EXPRESS shipment with waybill number 7397218931 from SHENZHEN JIALICHUANG has been delivered as requested at 15:58 on Sun Dec 10 2017. Thank you for using On Demand Delivery."
Shipping to NL from them is a lot more expensive, and DHL will slap on import and additional handling fees. When the shipping costs are missing on the declaration, DHL will fill out their highest overnight shipping fees, and calculate tax over that. DHL is totally unreasonable and with JLCPCB there was no way around it. However now they seem to offer non-DHL delivery as well, so that is great news.
Great review, as usual Dave. Thanks! I will also give a try to them soon. Just wondering for the ultra low price... I hope only they do correct waste disposal and do not charge the planet... Regards
I just received an order from JLC as well (same day as this video was posted). JLC took maybe 4 days total to make the pcbs and add the two LCSC orders to it. It then took DHL Express another 2 days to ship it to Germany... where it then spent 5 days in DHL Express' customs trap. While JLC and LCSC is great, I'm going to look at different options if UPS / Fedex isn't an alternative option because DHL Express is simply a nightmare. To get back on topic, the PCBs also seem to have a slightly shifted soldermask, which I hope isn't going to cause too much trouble with smaller pitch QFNs etc.
Dave, PCBWay are similar price and quality and they are great at putting their identification marking number under a chip footprint so you don't see it when populated.
Free choice of color (they will mix you your choice if the volume is big enough) No id markings on silks Better silk quality since its actually silkscreeened and not printed buried vias/plugged vias most times tighter specs (depends on the fabhouse, but china is only now catching up with 4mil/4mil and 0.3mm vias) ENIG maybe? Depends on the volume/pricepoint i guess. PS: don't know if the question was rhetoric but have an answer anyway :)
Hi, JLCPCB has informed me that they don't do buried or blind vias! Thus, my order was cancelled. How can any boardhouse make a 4 layer, or for that matter, 6,8,12,32,40 layer board without buried or blind vias??? Did they do buried, or blind vias for you? Would greatly appreciate your feedback.
Was wondering why it's not a good idea to use these for production boards? Even though as you say they are prototype PCBs, if the quality is good then why not use em for production too?
6:37.... I wouldn't be worried about the quality of the Silkscreen as long as I can easily read it. BTW... You just scratched the PCB surface with the tweezers.... LOL.. ;-) I've had my eye on JLCPCB for a while now and everyone seems to like their quality, prices and shipping times. I'll give them a go on my next PCB requirements.
My own 4 layer JLCPCBs are arriving soon, I paid about as much as you for 150mm x 92mm with ENIG finish. I'm eager to see whether they turned out as well as yours!
I can give you a reason why there is a need to make PCBs at home sometimes. The thing is some people share their pcb designs as a plain picture for some reason, Adobe PDF for 'instance. Trying to reproduce that kind of PCB in CAD you'll likely realise that many footprints required are missing in your database so you'd have to draw them extra. But the biggest issue is there is a chance to make a mistake while transferring traces which are quite hard to reveal at first. The best results are achieved with use of POSITIV20 photoresist and ferric chloride for etching. All that requires some skills and UV equipment though as there's no clear specification for the process cause it depends on a variety factors, such as temperature, UV exposure time etc. Sure, all that looks just archaic nowadays.
Thanks for this video. I had similar conclusions when I ordered a board, but my expertise is limited to writing software for the (very high-end ) prototype boards that land on my desk. It's hard to compare my prototype boards to the 24-layer insane-pitch "prototypes" at work.
I keep trying to encourage people to try services like this. I've had several 4-layer designs made by them now, and I can't fault the quality at all. It really is insane how cheap they are now, compared to the €65 I paid for just ONE 2-layer board (12cm square) in 2008. The only thing I would request is that they add another courier option that is in between the DHL and snail mail options, since DHL very often charge extra duty if the parcel is a bit heavier. (I don't mind waiting 10 days or so with a courier, but the average three-week wait via snail mail is a bit of a killer. lol)
For example, my last order was for four different designs. Two 4-layer boards, and two 2-layer boards. There were 40 boards in total, but they still fit into the same sized box as in this vid. The PCBs were £65.95 total, DHL shipping was £21.22 (to the UK), which is fine for the weight, but then I STILL got charged an extra £27 duty, which I had to pay via the DHL site before delivery. If there was an option for a slightly cheaper courier who might take a bit longer, but are far less likely to add extra duty, it would be ideal. (£21 for fast shipping from China to the UK is pretty good, but £48 with the extra duty is crazy.)
You were charged VAT not Duty because the value of the goods + shipping exceed £45.00 which is the threshold for VAT exception from China. PCB's have a 0% duty threshold from China. JLCPCB have a sister company, LCSC where you can order the components for the board and have them shipped together. I ordered 30 boards plus a stencil last month but i made the mistake of ordering some parts as well and they combined the 2 invoices together which exceeded the VAT level and i had to pay an additional £19.00. If i had just ordered the boards, i wouldn't have had to pay any VAT.
@@sparkdoctor5773 Sorry, yep, VAT. I keep calling any extra charges "duty", and it's a bad habit. The thing is, I'd rather have the site itself calculate the VAT if they know the destination Country. It should be mandatory on all sites, IMHO. I'm sure there are some logistical reasons I'm not aware of, but I thought that was fairly standard across other sites? If it's due to the tax threshold in China though, I guess it makes sense.
Just sent off my 2nd order to JLCPCB... AUD$23 for 5 copies of 3 boards including delivery. There is NO WAY I'd be bothered with making my own for that price and quality. One is quite complex as it's a shield for a STM32F407VET6 so has to line up exactly with the board pins. An earlier one was perfect however I revised the board a bit after some testing. The other smaller boards are daughter boards that can be used with the shield for specific functionality. After uploading the designs was amazing to see the production start within the hour. My next challenge is a board with some SMT components because I really suck at soldering such small bits. I mainly just need some resistors and leds.
A few years ago I scratch built an XY pen plotter and found some nice Staedtler pens that resist etching... I made a couple of single sided boards using that, but Osh Park and the other cheap places have made that thing obsolete. I've gotten a few things from JLCPCB. They've always been fast and good. The most recent was 5 of the Mk52 heatbed for a DIY Prusa i3 Mk3 printer. It was like $58US and delivery in a week or so.
Recently did a 46x46mm PCB that I don't care if it arrives in a couple of weeks. DirtyPCBs were $14.95 shipped airmail (any PCB colour and I wanted black). JLCPCB were $8 but green only. At those prices I wouldn't even consider etching a board and if I need it ASAP DHL is super fast and reliable to Australia. It feels like prices have gone up slightly over the years for small 2-layer boards, but have dropped significantly for 4-layer. It's to the point you might even consider 4-layer just for ease of routing power/ground!
So far I've ordered really complex but only 2 sided boards, I was hesitating to order a 4 layer board, but after this I will give it a try. My ESP32 - Lattice Mach2 board will be the lucky guinea pcb.
Watched a vid on their factory, and if you get a bunch of boards, they use real silkscreen, but if you only order a few, it is faster for them to use the dot matrix silkscreen printer. I have had about a dozen small boards done by them and all were perfect for my needs. Also, if you are doing SMD, their stainless steel solder stencil is only $7 and it is spot on also.
There is an option so they add a little bit more on the edge of pcb with the number that you can just break off, mostly seen in panel boards but if i remember there's a way of contacting them or something
Yes, you can ask for them to be panelled but there is a charge for it but they will put the markings on the edge. There is a 10mm break off piece all around.
I've used JLC for several orders now, and they very often make the boards that fast, and with the same quality and price. I doubt they knew or even cared if it was Dave or not, as they make thousands of boards a day, which all go onto giant panels. If they were THAT worried about making a good impression, they might have redone the silk screen. (which is still a very tiny glitch for prototype boards.) (btw, I'm not shilling for them, I just think the turnaround time and quality is great for the price, especially for 4 layers.)
Strange parts has a factory tour and you can see the different process that they provide and learn how they are able to deliver the speed and quality that they do
From a June 2021 perspective, it looks like they offered the "JLCJLCJLCJLC" user determined positioning for awhile without it being listed in the website, but its in the ordering form now. Can also pay extra for no customer ID marking what so ever.
Everything else ASIDE. I found their silkscreen resolution to be amazing! I tend to do boards with QFN and 0402 res/caps. I usually make my lettering 30mil tall and 8 mil line width and it came out perfect!!!
JLCPCB does double side silkscreen for free, and you can tell them exactly where their identifier should go. While they can not remove that mark, you can tell them to put it in the back of the board or tuck it under a chip.
I've had several prototype boards made by them recently, and I've been very pleased. No way would I make my own boards. I done. Even bother with vector board construction, it's easier and cheaper to get a board made. I'm considering a reflow oven for small production runs. The stainless steel stencils are really cheap too.
I tried them before their current ad blitz, and was really pleasantly surprised. Silkscreen was aligned, vias were centered. And they arrived 6 days after I uploaded.
I've used both them and Elecrow for my PCBs (only 2 layers till now). And I think when you get multiple designs (I usually do that when ordering prototypes - I collect PCBs for projects in a folder and when I finally need one I just order a bunch at the same time) Elecrow is cheaper. At least when you include shipping to Europe. But they are both priced reasonably and I agree that making PCBs at home is slowly getting out of fashion. Unless you really need something that day.
I used JLCPCB for making boards and I was pleased with quality. I built tiny SWR meter and bands switch for SSB6.1 transceiver. I have it on my channel if you are interested. JLCPCB is a good choice for hobbyist. I would doubt that for large scale but small parties under 1000 PCBs should be good.
No, it's an abbreviation for Transistor/Inductor Logic, or a totem-pole construction with a transistor on the low side and an inductor on the high side. Transistor to pull the line low, inductor to pull the line very high when the transistor stops conducting. (And yes, I'm joking, if that wasn't clear)
The only reason I can see for making your own board would be if it’s a small one sided board because shipping to me in the us is $15 for the cheap one and over $20 for dhl
With their identifier, I may just be lucky, but I've had seeedstudio chuck their identifier under ICs or plop-in modules. Regarding DIY vs Machined, while it's nice to experiment with diy, I agree it's far better to get them done properly - plus you can do silk screening and mask colours!
One big downside is: If you do mostly OneOffs like me, i need to do it all in protel (ok - old but i barely touch its capabilities (hobbyist use only) as it´s a full featured protel dxp) incluing schematics and usually some footprints as well as the whole layout (no autoroute for me, as i usually deal with audio stuff and ...no thanx). By the time i´m done with the software, i could have also done the same on a PerfBoard and have a working (more or less - i usually need some rework done) board to work with.
Can't do SMD on proto board. We'll you probably can using bodge wires, but I do not recommend. A lot of hobbyists sometimes are scared of going to SMD, but hot air stations are cheap now and it's actually easier to work with that THT. Just heat and lift. No need to pull out the solder sucker and pull your hair out trying to clear a hole of solder.
I just ordered 30 custom Arduino shields from them using their web based software for $30 USD and it took 5 days! And they came out beautiful. What a bargain. Express PCB wanted almost $500 for the same thing.
This is plain misinformation. I have just received 20 boards 350mm by 200mm ENIG finish, plus framed stensil for top and botom layer for only $300 shipped.
You can put some text in the design "JLJLJL..." And they will place the customer number in that position apparently. So you could hide it under a chip or something. Don't know if you can remove it completely though.
I tried but they didn't :(
Huh, that's clever
I recall from the factory tour someone made, they have people reviewing the designs and numbering stuff; that's not automated, so it prolly depends if the guy had his wheaties that morning
Also they say if you choose "Panel by JLPCB" when ordering they will put it on the edges of the panel that you break off anyway so you can hide it completely
support.jlcpcb.com/article/28-how-to-remove-the-customer-id-on-the-pcb
Interesting. You usually do this with manufacture panel notes, but cheap proto houses like this usually ignore them. You are relying on someone in the loop to see that and change it, so I wouldn't rely on that.
support.jlcpcb.com/article/28-how-to-remove-the-customer-id-on-the-pcb
5 years on, and they are still a great company. Every board I've ordered from them i've been more than happy with. Truly a good company to deal with and they care about quality. Prices are still excellent.
The slight tracking of the screenprint looks like the disk-roller marks when you use a non absorbent medium in an inkjet printer. I wonder if it's been printed in a dedicated inkjet style system
Great Shower thoughts right there
It's worth noting, JLCPCB has garnered a lot of goodwill in the hobbyist community. They sponsor like 90% of the small RUclips electronics channels. That might seem shady if they weren't good, but they genuinely offer a pretty great product and good service as well.
5 years after this video, they improved enormously. they are excellent. you can omit the order number, silkscreen is very improved, and tons of other things. Indeed you pointed out a very true in the start of the video: with such quality and prices, it doesn't make ANY sense to make PCBs home. Great stuff for great prices.
Economy of scale with a world class dedicated manufacturer operating in a country where labor is extremely low and the processes are all still nearly completely automated. There are a few videos inside JLC doing a complete job and their facilities are impressive to say the least. No expense spared and thats saying a lot for a Chinese mega-manufacturer.
Thanks for the video Dave!
as an electrical engineering student who does a lot of personal projects because making things is also a hobby, JLC pcb is amazing. like, my design capability went from "whatever i can hand solder" to "whatever i can fit on a pcb" which was a massive upgrade, plus 2 layer boards are always $20 delivered and arrive within 7 days everytime. Seriously it's difficult to not talk about JLCPCB without sounding like a shill.
Stranger Parts visited the factory and made a video about the whole manufacturing process. They showed there are two different method for putting the writings to the pcb, for bigger volumes they use the silkscreen method with stencil, but for small volumes they are using inkjet printing indeed.
Scotty from Strange Parts did a factorytour at JLC-PCB. Can really recommend that :)
Yeah he gave the JLCPCB guys a tour :D
I couldn't watch that whole video. It was so annoying.
@@dentakuweb no one forced you to watch the whole thing ;)
I've toured quite a few of the Shenzhen PCB plants, and it does get monotonous after a while. The guides all go through the same routine, and they look practically identical on the insides (this was for work, so i had to go). The biggest thing I took out of it was how soul destroying it must be to work on those production lines... I also got in trouble at a place for taking photos of the prototype Nvidia 2080 GPUs they were making :)
Is that not the order number?? It has a box u can check to not have it on the board. Look at list of options. Its near bottom of the list. And you can select where you want to put it. But that button doesnt do anything when i push that.
I was actually comparing PCB manufacturers to get some large PCBs made when this video popped up in my feed. Looks like they're getting my business now.
Looks great Dave. I've found the same with my orders from them. Can't justify even messing around trying to make a few cm board for what they charge and how quick they turn around. Great time to be in the electronics world :) Cheers
It really is amazing what you can get for your money. I was impressed with PCBway a year ago, but JLCPCB blows them out of the water when you consider the standard tolerances for JLC are apparently 5/5 thou (I'll be testing that soon), PCB thickness down to 0.6mm is the same price as standard 1.6mm, 0.3mm min drill is standard. The silkscreen may not be up to Dave's standards, but PCBway was very obviously dot matrix, whereas with JLC it's hard to tell without zooming right in, and even then you could put the jaggies down to the surface profile of the fibreglass.
They rejected one of my boards. I gave up trying to fix something that wasn't broke and just sent it to PCBWay. They made it, no problem. Use them all the time now.
Glad to see that at least one EE RUclipsr isn't being sponsored by them.
You can even make more boards. I managed to make 80 small boards for 2$! They were small enough to put 8 of them on single board within 10cm by 10cm. And 10 boards of these. Great deal!
If you put multiple designs on a single board submission they usually charge you more!
John Helm . Just be clever with your design.
I had one design, board was small enough (21mm by 36mm) to use "Panel By JLCPCB" option. You can put two circuits on your board and cut them later, without additional charge, if you manage to fit in size.
only if you require for panelization on each board which will cost more, but if you were to mark out on the silk screen and make you own cutting that will still cost you 10 by 10cm with 10pcs for $2.
My boards ( imgur.com/RZRa9QN ) were v-scored, also their serial number is where it's ok to be.
Would be interresting to see you measure the capacitance between ground and power plain on a quite big empty board like this.
Maybe something for the upcoming comparison video 2 layer versus 4 layer?
you are bug user
jlcpcb is a great company. its a time saving pcb producer. some companies lives with their cheap prototyping solution.
Also, The customer ID they slap on the board can be placed optionally anywhere you want by putting "JLCJLCJLCJLC" somewhere in the silkscreen layer. They will make it fit. Or if you have it panalized you can put it on the strip.
There is however a catch, from the JLCPB website: "The font size should be larger than 0.8mm in height and 0.15 mm in width" Or you pay an extra fee, then the number can be removed completely. Third option, you do a panel with frame. Then you can place the JLCJLCJLCJLC string on the frame.
I use them sometimes but they will regularly reject designs with a lot of routing, with no option to pay more to get it done. sometimes they don't even email to tell you - this totally hosed me on one job.
IME Allpcb email you for additional payment, and have a lot more options. Costs aren't much different.
I just did a 4 layer board with a jungle of routing and they were fine. I will try Allpcb. JLC marketing looks like its wining.
i once ordered some 0.6mm pcbs with slots cut out to make them springy, they didnt reject i.imgur.com/ZeViLpQ.png but i allways look at pcbshopper, sometimes jlc isnt the cheapest when adding shipping
I can confirm that as I ordered recently a 4 layer board from them that needed 2Oz copper (70um) and after I paid quite a serious amount for the 2Oz option vs default 1Oz I only got 1Oz and after I mentioned that they tried to convince me that I do not know how to measure copper thickness with accurate 4 wire measurement but agreed to send me another board and that was the same 1Oz (no real communication between manufacturing and sales). I ended up with another PCB manufacturer that did of course made the board with 2Oz (almost 1.78Oz but good enough).
I also ordered a similar board that was just 2 layers at the same time from JLC PCB again 2Oz much more expensive but those where 2Oz. Those where 1.6mm thick despite me ordering 1mm using their online tool as they can not make almost anything other than most common 1.6mm.
So they are great as they are low cost but only good for simple prototypes and as soon as you want anything different they will not be able to do so or worse send you what they want and no chance to get a refund.
Hi Mike, can you elaborate why it was rejected? I had a board ones reject from them and they told me this message: "But really sorry to tell that the size of your panel is too small to be made, it needs to be 5 .5 cm at least, could you please kindly check?" My board was 10cm x 5.3cm with 1 v-groove.
I think that your designs were hitting hard limits for "Electrical Test" step (respect). They probably can manufacture your boards, but there are so many connections to test that it will clog their manufacturing pipeline if they try to do so. And because it happens fairly seldom, they do not bother adding "no test" option.
Edit: Ok, I think simbone (below) is right - "routing" here is milling.
I think they are the best for the money, I had a mistake on 2 vias, I saw this on the their online board viewer (great feature and you can zoom in), I emailed them right but because they put board in production so fast, I though for sure they would not catch it. The board arrived within 1 week here in the USA and they had corrected the issue, so happy with there quality and price. As far as them putting their tracking number on the board, they usually pick a spot under a large component, but not always. I prefer no numbers on the board, but for the price and service I will live with it.
You could have ordered 10 boards and you wouldn't even see the difference in cost! I've ordered two different sets of boards from them. I got 10 boards both times. I paid half of what you did! My boards are green by default. My boards too a week longer to receive but I'm very happy.
Glad you approve Dave. I've used them myself a couple of times. They are a godsend for poor hobbyists such as myself. As you say, no point to etching your own!
Thank you Dave for having you with you on this pcb
There are still benefits to making own PCBs. Weird shapes, single layer board with just dozens of components done in single day and quickly move over. Sometimes you just do PCBs by hand, on a piece of paper, pen and pencil, or even directly on PCB copper layer, and you can eliminate all the software / CAD / gerber / routing complexities, waiting times, custom fees and taxes headaches, failed prototypes, etc. It is not always about the price, but about flexibility and extreme rapid prototyping. If I want I can go through 6 different revision / variants of ideas of a PCB in a single day easily at home.
Some Chinese companies will route the weirdest shape for you dirt cheap, though it's been a couple years since i looked for that specifically.
But as to going from idea to a prototype or a one-off product in a day, certainly no business will help you with that at any hobbyist- or small-business-friendly cost, neither in China nor locally, so homebrewing is a good skill to maintain.
For the price they are excellent, I got 30 PCBs made with 3 different designs (10 of each) ordered on the 31st July and they arrived on the 6th August in the UK. All for around $30-$35 including shipping.
As of price, you get 10x double side boards within 10cm on each dimension for less than $10 + shipping. 10x 4-layer for less than $18 etc.
Depending on the manufacturing location, some boards made by JLC may have a weak soldermask bond at the edge. When heated, especially when using a iron, some of those near the pads tend to come off.
They have more than one location?
I have used them for the past year and have had no problems at all. If you want cheaper delivery to the uk use the HK DHL service. It's a shame they don't offer E-packet like pcbway, but they are normally a little more so it's balances out.
I ordered a test batch of 25 boards (150x90mm 2 layer) on 20th. Was meant to be 3 day build time. They only made it into production today (27th). I may stick with ALLPCB if the quality isnt better with JLC. That solder mask alignment was not great.
yeah, that price is insane. 12$ a piece or something for a 4 layer board of that size, done in a couple of days. You really can't complain.
It's a huge game changer. I shake my head now everytime I see engineers trying to make their own boards.
nice to see a non sponsered review of them. been looking at them to do a few boards for me.
I've been using JLCPCB like crazy lately. I love Oshpark's AFTER DARK boards, and I order them when I want something special, but JLC is impossible to beat. I've done decent sized boards in nice quantities (a couple dozen) where the cost of the boards was less than freight. Freight for me is like $12 typically, and I figured I'd add on some extra boards just to justify the order. They take solder nice. There's little to dislike. They ship stuff to me from China in about 3 or 4 days. I live on the east coast of the US.
Dave they wont produce your board without an identification number that they choose, But they will put it in a different location if you ask, like under a component
I've used them. low cost PCB's will open up a lot of innovation possibilities, was so expensive before....
I can confirm that JLCPCB make top notch quality boards. Firs of all their lamination can handle high temperature soldering regardless whether it was specified. Second of all they are fast. One day I placed my order on Wednesday, a DHL courier knocked my door in Sunday noon. Also I can confirm that JLCPCB use robotic probes to test every piece of PCB for galvanic connection/isolation. The traces left by those robotic probes can be seen on SMD soldering pads.
Sunday DHL delivery? Wow.
yes. In Melbourne. I got really surprised on that day.
"Your DHL EXPRESS shipment with waybill number 7397218931 from SHENZHEN JIALICHUANG has been delivered as requested at 15:58 on Sun Dec 10 2017.
Thank you for using On Demand Delivery."
That shipping price is extremely low. Guess because Australia is close to China. Shipping to EU is 4-6 times more.
There's a $20 (or there abouts) shipping discount on the first order, so that might explain it.
It's obviously subsidised/absorbed in some way. It was the full DHL courier service, and even China do not get those rates.
Knier - Ah, that would explain it, thanks.
Knier. So using multiple shipping addresses and you will have cheap boards for a while 😎😁
Shipping to NL from them is a lot more expensive, and DHL will slap on import and additional handling fees. When the shipping costs are missing on the declaration, DHL will fill out their highest overnight shipping fees, and calculate tax over that. DHL is totally unreasonable and with JLCPCB there was no way around it. However now they seem to offer non-DHL delivery as well, so that is great news.
They are great. I've also expected crap for 2$ but boards came out great. Thick and sturdy fiberglass and solder pads are hard to lift off.
Great review, as usual Dave. Thanks! I will also give a try to them soon. Just wondering for the ultra low price... I hope only they do correct waste disposal and do not charge the planet... Regards
Incredibly cool! I will use them soon. Thanks Dave.
No free pencil included? Something went wrong with your order. ;o) Thanks for having a look. :o)
But in my country exactly opposite, 2 $ for printing and 30$ for shipping
As for the identifier, we can select to have it on a special location by an option. But don't know if the intl site has this feature
Do we automatically assume any designs sent in for fabrication are "in the wild" now?
cool vid dave. I've had good luck with JLC as well. You think you could do a vid on how to evaluate a PCB manufacturer?
I just received an order from JLC as well (same day as this video was posted). JLC took maybe 4 days total to make the pcbs and add the two LCSC orders to it. It then took DHL Express another 2 days to ship it to Germany... where it then spent 5 days in DHL Express' customs trap. While JLC and LCSC is great, I'm going to look at different options if UPS / Fedex isn't an alternative option because DHL Express is simply a nightmare. To get back on topic, the PCBs also seem to have a slightly shifted soldermask, which I hope isn't going to cause too much trouble with smaller pitch QFNs etc.
Dave, PCBWay are similar price and quality and they are great at putting their identification marking number under a chip footprint so you don't see it when populated.
What's the difference between prototype and production grade if prototypes are of such high quality?
Free choice of color (they will mix you your choice if the volume is big enough)
No id markings on silks
Better silk quality since its actually silkscreeened and not printed
buried vias/plugged vias
most times tighter specs (depends on the fabhouse, but china is only now catching up with 4mil/4mil and 0.3mm vias)
ENIG maybe? Depends on the volume/pricepoint i guess.
PS: don't know if the question was rhetoric but have an answer anyway :)
Hi,
JLCPCB has informed me that they don't do buried or blind vias! Thus, my order was cancelled.
How can any boardhouse make a 4 layer, or for that matter, 6,8,12,32,40 layer board without buried or blind vias???
Did they do buried, or blind vias for you?
Would greatly appreciate your feedback.
Was wondering why it's not a good idea to use these for production boards? Even though as you say they are prototype PCBs, if the quality is good then why not use em for production too?
6:37.... I wouldn't be worried about the quality of the Silkscreen as long as I can easily read it. BTW... You just scratched the PCB surface with the tweezers.... LOL.. ;-)
I've had my eye on JLCPCB for a while now and everyone seems to like their quality, prices and shipping times. I'll give them a go on my next PCB requirements.
My own 4 layer JLCPCBs are arriving soon, I paid about as much as you for 150mm x 92mm with ENIG finish. I'm eager to see whether they turned out as well as yours!
They claim that material is tg140, will it cope with bga soldering at 190c?
how much it would cost an order like this some time ago???
I can give you a reason why there is a need to make PCBs at home sometimes. The thing is some people share their pcb designs as a plain picture for some reason, Adobe PDF for 'instance. Trying to reproduce that kind of PCB in CAD you'll likely realise that many footprints required are missing in your database so you'd have to draw them extra. But the biggest issue is there is a chance to make a mistake while transferring traces which are quite hard to reveal at first. The best results are achieved with use of POSITIV20 photoresist and ferric chloride for etching. All that requires some skills and UV equipment though as there's no clear specification for the process cause it depends on a variety factors, such as temperature, UV exposure time etc. Sure, all that looks just archaic nowadays.
Thanks for this video. I had similar conclusions when I ordered a board, but my expertise is limited to writing software for the (very high-end ) prototype boards that land on my desk.
It's hard to compare my prototype boards to the 24-layer insane-pitch "prototypes" at work.
I keep trying to encourage people to try services like this.
I've had several 4-layer designs made by them now, and I can't fault the quality at all.
It really is insane how cheap they are now, compared to the €65 I paid for just ONE 2-layer board (12cm square) in 2008.
The only thing I would request is that they add another courier option that is in between the DHL and snail mail options, since DHL very often charge extra duty if the parcel is a bit heavier.
(I don't mind waiting 10 days or so with a courier, but the average three-week wait via snail mail is a bit of a killer. lol)
For example, my last order was for four different designs. Two 4-layer boards, and two 2-layer boards.
There were 40 boards in total, but they still fit into the same sized box as in this vid.
The PCBs were £65.95 total, DHL shipping was £21.22 (to the UK), which is fine for the weight, but then I STILL got charged an extra £27 duty, which I had to pay via the DHL site before delivery.
If there was an option for a slightly cheaper courier who might take a bit longer, but are far less likely to add extra duty, it would be ideal.
(£21 for fast shipping from China to the UK is pretty good, but £48 with the extra duty is crazy.)
Itead.cc is offering "SF Express". Slower than DHL but certainly faster than snail mail.
You were charged VAT not Duty because the value of the goods + shipping exceed £45.00 which is the threshold for VAT exception from China. PCB's have a 0% duty threshold from China.
JLCPCB have a sister company, LCSC where you can order the components for the board and have them shipped together. I ordered 30 boards plus a stencil last month but i made the mistake of ordering some parts as well and they combined the 2 invoices together which exceeded the VAT level and i had to pay an additional £19.00. If i had just ordered the boards, i wouldn't have had to pay any VAT.
@@sparkdoctor5773
Sorry, yep, VAT.
I keep calling any extra charges "duty", and it's a bad habit.
The thing is, I'd rather have the site itself calculate the VAT if they know the destination Country. It should be mandatory on all sites, IMHO.
I'm sure there are some logistical reasons I'm not aware of, but I thought that was fairly standard across other sites?
If it's due to the tax threshold in China though, I guess it makes sense.
if im from southeast asia. how many days i will wait if i send my pcb layout today in JLCPCB?
Fuzzy because of a dirty lense?
Just sent off my 2nd order to JLCPCB... AUD$23 for 5 copies of 3 boards including delivery. There is NO WAY I'd be bothered with making my own for that price and quality. One is quite complex as it's a shield for a STM32F407VET6 so has to line up exactly with the board pins. An earlier one was perfect however I revised the board a bit after some testing. The other smaller boards are daughter boards that can be used with the shield for specific functionality. After uploading the designs was amazing to see the production start within the hour.
My next challenge is a board with some SMT components because I really suck at soldering such small bits. I mainly just need some resistors and leds.
A few years ago I scratch built an XY pen plotter and found some nice Staedtler pens that resist etching... I made a couple of single sided boards using that, but Osh Park and the other cheap places have made that thing obsolete. I've gotten a few things from JLCPCB. They've always been fast and good. The most recent was 5 of the Mk52 heatbed for a DIY Prusa i3 Mk3 printer. It was like $58US and delivery in a week or so.
Recently did a 46x46mm PCB that I don't care if it arrives in a couple of weeks. DirtyPCBs were $14.95 shipped airmail (any PCB colour and I wanted black). JLCPCB were $8 but green only. At those prices I wouldn't even consider etching a board and if I need it ASAP DHL is super fast and reliable to Australia.
It feels like prices have gone up slightly over the years for small 2-layer boards, but have dropped significantly for 4-layer. It's to the point you might even consider 4-layer just for ease of routing power/ground!
Yep, not much price difference for 4 layer now, so might as well!
So far I've ordered really complex but only 2 sided boards, I was hesitating to order a 4 layer board, but after this I will give it a try. My ESP32 - Lattice Mach2 board will be the lucky guinea pcb.
Wow Dave goes JLCPCB crazy!
What it is the difference between production vs prototype pcb?
Quantity.
Matte black solder mask is the coolest but adds a little bit more cost.
love jlcpcb, always had great results from them. also like easyeda a lot.
Watched a vid on their factory, and if you get a bunch of boards, they use real silkscreen, but if you only order a few, it is faster for them to use the dot matrix silkscreen printer. I have had about a dozen small boards done by them and all were perfect for my needs. Also, if you are doing SMD, their stainless steel solder stencil is only $7 and it is spot on also.
The only problem that I have is the 0.5 oz of inner layers and the via to track clearance that is too big for bga!
For front panels PCBWay are good. They will not add any markings to the board if you ask them.
For front panels I like a photoimageable silkscreen.
can they make a pcb that can run Crysis?
There is an option so they add a little bit more on the edge of pcb with the number that you can just break off, mostly seen in panel boards but if i remember there's a way of contacting them or something
Yes, you can ask for them to be panelled but there is a charge for it but they will put the markings on the edge. There is a 10mm break off piece all around.
Do they know it was you?
That's what I wonder, should of done it in Davids name without the video first. But I'm going to give them a try myself.
His board doesn't look any better than any other boards *I've* seen from them FWIW
I greatly doubt it. They promised 4 day turn and delivered it. And price was standard web quote.
They must
I've used JLC for several orders now, and they very often make the boards that fast, and with the same quality and price.
I doubt they knew or even cared if it was Dave or not, as they make thousands of boards a day, which all go onto giant panels.
If they were THAT worried about making a good impression, they might have redone the silk screen. (which is still a very tiny glitch for prototype boards.)
(btw, I'm not shilling for them, I just think the turnaround time and quality is great for the price, especially for 4 layers.)
So Dave, you didn't make it very clear in the video: do you think this is acceptable for the price?
Strange parts has a factory tour and you can see the different process that they provide and learn how they are able to deliver the speed and quality that they do
Does anybody know a cheap pcb house that can do microvias? Im looking for 2-3 mil holes with 2-3 mil annular (0.4 WLCSP are evil..)
4:45 There was an option whether to put identify code by jlcpcb, when you placed order.
From a June 2021 perspective, it looks like they offered the "JLCJLCJLCJLC" user determined positioning for awhile without it being listed in the website, but its in the ordering form now. Can also pay extra for no customer ID marking what so ever.
Everything else ASIDE. I found their silkscreen resolution to be amazing! I tend to do boards with QFN and 0402 res/caps. I usually make my lettering 30mil tall and 8 mil line width and it came out perfect!!!
Try PCBWAY - they provide different colors of solder mask for the same price. JLCPCB makes only green for low price.
I watched this while making my own PCB, I was going to use JLCPCB for the next stage though.
you have to admit this is probably one of the best pcb quality for the cost of just wun hung lo price
I ordered a couple of times from JLPCB, they never left there own mark on the PCB.
JLCPCB does double side silkscreen for free, and you can tell them exactly where their identifier should go. While they can not remove that mark, you can tell them to put it in the back of the board or tuck it under a chip.
JLC is the first choice for many Chinese electronics engineers.
I've had several prototype boards made by them recently, and I've been very pleased. No way would I make my own boards. I done. Even bother with vector board construction, it's easier and cheaper to get a board made. I'm considering a reflow oven for small production runs. The stainless steel stencils are really cheap too.
I tried them before their current ad blitz, and was really pleasantly surprised. Silkscreen was aligned, vias were centered. And they arrived 6 days after I uploaded.
In fact, drills were better-centered than I've had from OSH Park.
I've used both them and Elecrow for my PCBs (only 2 layers till now). And I think when you get multiple designs (I usually do that when ordering prototypes - I collect PCBs for projects in a folder and when I finally need one I just order a bunch at the same time) Elecrow is cheaper. At least when you include shipping to Europe. But they are both priced reasonably and I agree that making PCBs at home is slowly getting out of fashion. Unless you really need something that day.
Hey fellow US viewers: Are recent China PCB orders getting dinged with tariffs (and customs delay/procedure/paperwork, etc)?
I used JLCPCB for making boards and I was pleased with quality. I built tiny SWR meter and bands switch for SSB6.1 transceiver. I have it on my channel if you are interested. JLCPCB is a good choice for hobbyist. I would doubt that for large scale but small parties under 1000 PCBs should be good.
Typo in Description TLL/TTL ?
No, it's an abbreviation for Transistor/Inductor Logic, or a totem-pole construction with a transistor on the low side and an inductor on the high side. Transistor to pull the line low, inductor to pull the line very high when the transistor stops conducting. (And yes, I'm joking, if that wasn't clear)
The only reason I can see for making your own board would be if it’s a small one sided board because shipping to me in the us is $15 for the cheap one and over $20 for dhl
Dave, make a video on pcb layout for emi on power, ground and signals please?
for simple boards they are really great. I will never etch my own again thats for sure :)
With their identifier, I may just be lucky, but I've had seeedstudio chuck their identifier under ICs or plop-in modules. Regarding DIY vs Machined, while it's nice to experiment with diy, I agree it's far better to get them done properly - plus you can do silk screening and mask colours!
I believe JLC uses printing machines for small volume orders, and uses actual silkscreens for bigger orders
Thats correct. ruclips.net/video/ljOoGyCso8s/видео.htmlm25s (it is said explained and shown around that time in the video)
PCBWay won´t actually put the manufacturing identifier in the board if you ask them to in the comments of your order
Has that board got four layers by any chance? Just checking. 😂
One big downside is:
If you do mostly OneOffs like me, i need to do it all in protel (ok - old but i barely touch its capabilities (hobbyist use only) as it´s a full featured protel dxp) incluing schematics and usually some footprints as well as the whole layout (no autoroute for me, as i usually deal with audio stuff and ...no thanx).
By the time i´m done with the software, i could have also done the same on a PerfBoard and have a working (more or less - i usually need some rework done) board to work with.
Can't do SMD on proto board. We'll you probably can using bodge wires, but I do not recommend.
A lot of hobbyists sometimes are scared of going to SMD, but hot air stations are cheap now and it's actually easier to work with that THT. Just heat and lift. No need to pull out the solder sucker and pull your hair out trying to clear a hole of solder.
10:16 JLC offers 10 small boards (dont remember the exact size limit) for $2. 20 cents per board
I just ordered 30 custom Arduino shields from them using their web based software for $30 USD and it took 5 days! And they came out beautiful. What a bargain. Express PCB wanted almost $500 for the same thing.
Wow, no contest.
This is plain misinformation. I have just received 20 boards 350mm by 200mm ENIG finish, plus framed stensil for top and botom layer for only $300 shipped.
oups my mistake, I meant pcbway , yes expresspcb is expensive..im sorry
How many layers does it have?...
More than 3 and less than 5. Watch the damn video - he only mentions it 40 times.
whoosh