Capcom: Designs Ryu's whole tool kit to be total crap so he has to rely on fireballs since he is a "fireball character". Also Capcom: Gives Ken, a top tier character with a perfect tool kit, almost identical fireballs (even better in some instances).
Ken Ex is straight up better. Better juggles, cancel into drive rush, ryu does not really need the super fast recovery, denjin could cover that. Its hard being a ryu main yet again.
These videos are as always, very interesting, very fun, and provide a lot of insight into little details on something we tend to just take for granted such as fireballs! I guess we'll have to see how Akuma's hadoken compares, and if there's any OTHER, you know, OTHER characters with fireballs coming later!
I think they have "done" ryu with the "mediocre" treatment. The man should have a fireball so powerful, it blows a hole through your chest!!! If they don't, they have failed! Why does Luke have the best gear? Answers on a postcard. Gouken would kick his Ass!!!! Bring back the LOOOOOREEE! Enjoy my friends.
it really shows how much they hate ryu the character.. there is no doubt in my mind there is something to this.. they have gone so far as to try to replace him with a hack of a character in luke and they literally gave luke everything ryu should be.. i play ryu but i honestly dont understand why when i really have no advantage in any MUs.. i am literally playing this game with one hand tied behind my back.. now i feel it is a great challenge and its teaching me things but thats not the point.. yes i know akuma is on the way but akuma should not be a buffed version of ryu.. im not sure what will fix him though because characters like JP are too good..
I dont think swapping Ken and Ryu's ex fireball would even benefit Ryu that much, the problem is his drive rush is slow too so he still wouldnt be able to get there in time to get a follow up.
You could give it a different animation on hit ( like a higher juggle state like Dee Jays). Honestly all of Ryu's EX moves are pretty average and a waste of meter most of the time.
@@TotalSagat Yeah that might help it, and I definitely agree about the ex moves for Ryu. eX tatsu and shoryu and sometimes hado are generally the only ones ever worth it. Even then ex shoryu and hado are worse than Ken's equivalent. EX Joudan geri and Hasho are quite literally a waste of meter, you'd almost always rather drive rush outside a few niche scenarios. I think overall they just need to give Ryu more utility, when he does get good hits he hits hard but it seems like he needs to spend more meter to keep pressure going than other characters and has a harder time finding solid hits in neutral.
Ngl i think having more options in the game is always a win, if you could choose when to use the denjin fireball alongside the denjin hashogeki then Ryu would be way better. Same goes with any other bonus the character can get a skill like that.
Doesn't matter when you nerf one there will always be another problem character then what you going to want them nerfed too? Adapt, overcome and grow that's what fighting games are all about. I say buff them the greater the challenge the more skill you will be forced to gain in other to win.
dude what are you talking about? people are using them now. Broski the top player in the uk mains aki and just won a major tournament against the best in the uk (problem x, hurricane etc who were using top tiers like cammy). It really doesnt stop people from using other characters.@@ToruKurosawa
@@RandomPerson28337 I was merely making the point that if they don't fix the character (make them better) that hardly anyone would use them. Which to be fair is mainly the case. The top 5 used characters in Plat / Diamond / Master are Ken, Ryu, Cammy, Luke, Marisa.... I would guess people like Dee Jay and JP are not far behind. I agree that aki is a dlc character and therefore would not be played as much for that reason. On tier lists and character % useage though people like Lily and Aki would be pretty low. I just think if they made her better more players would pick them up.
Hey fellow Sagat-o player! I found the HOLY GRAIL for Sagat's meaty setups on wake up vs opp. You know there are tutorials that cover quick rise and backflip right? Or setups you have to eye ball whether he uses quick or backflip which you need blistering fast reactions not really practical.... However i found THE setup for Sagat and........covers ALL three wake up options (no recovery, quick rise, backflip) with the same EXACT meaty setup no need for specific timing of different moves. And also covers if opp wakes up with either a cr normal or st normal this setup covers ALL 4fr and some 3fr depending if they cr or st wake up. If you still play SF5 with Sagat im willing to give you the setup and try for your self i might even make a video showcasing the evidence 100% works. It revolves around a KARA MK Knee...(no need for Hanuman). Did it plenty of times on opp and works so happy hehe...Oh its SAVE on block if they just wake up and block another big + for this setup so there is no risk to! Here: basic combo into low ex shot - AS FAST as possible do KARA M-Knee (while opp is basically still in air after hit knee) then land DO CR.MP, CR.LP into whatever combo you like....If opp decides to use "no recovery nap time wake up" both your cr.mp, cr.lp will wiff right? Easy to see if that happens THEN just do a ST.HP (slight timing needed but NOT hard to do) hit confirm? Do st.lk into whatever you want....PS if you jump in with the intention to do the setup dont do ST.HK after a J.HK better do after J.HK a ST.MP - CR.MP into ex low shot this guarantees the setup. If using a ST.HK after J.HK the setup MIGHT not work due to increasing range. Try it out man ive been crippling people with this setup more and more LOL love it! DANG it i wish i found it years ago you would have LOVED this setup 100%!! It also can lead to a STUN 100% on slightly lower vitality players ie from zero stun to 100% stun lol On M.Bison he will eat a STUN (from empty stun bar to fully stunned haha)
I wish you made an updated fireball funk video especially since the meta evolved to the point where people can perfect parry to nullify fireball traps and a lot of other stuff like hurtbox during recovery etc
Honestly I feel like ryu either needs MASSIVE buffs to allow him to stand out among the cast or a character rework because he's just "unseasoned ken" in so many ways, his fireball may be better at pure zoning but only marginally and lacks nearly all the additional utilities ken has such as combo starting or using as a drive rush cover. Plus denjin only having one speed keeps him from being tricky with his fireballs when it would be most advantageous as he's looking to punish so he can use denjin hashogeki. Honestly he just needs additional utility on his moves and to be able to hold denjin. Maybe make it so that if he holds down punch when throwing hadouken then he just throws out a normal fireball instead of denjin. And honestly even if he did get buffed I still feel like he wouldn't be a good character overall due to the fact that he just doesn't stand out whatsoever. Everybody has their unique form of gameplay be it gameplan or the way they go about it. Ryu just overlaps with luke so much in what they try to accomplish and how they go about it that I feel one needs to be changed because of how similar they are.
Yup he's plain jane and has no "gimmick" which is pretty much essential in this version. I think an easy fix is to just make MP fireball the Denjin, since almost nobody will use MP fireball anyway.
MP fireball has use though. It’s the curveball fireball for when people jump. The large hurtbox allows for people to get hit by the back of an opponent’s jump hitbox and can confuse timing. I was actually going to recommend that they go back to using the classic shakunetsu input, half circle forward + punch. That would be a perfect way to re-introduce the shakunetsu input with a new fireball. And shakunetsu is pretty much the same as the raiko fireball. With this, Denjin charge doesn’t have to be used when shooting fireballs. I would like 3 different versions of the raiko fireball though with heavily different speeds and startup, but I’m not sure that will be needed or even thought out by Capcom.
@@joneyflopay943 That input change is a nice idea, but in this game you'd likely get the wrong move like if you were walking backwards and wanted normal fireball, I find the shortcuts too easy to mess up ( Crouching mk suddenly turns into a tatsu etc), its a tough one!
I always love the Fireball Funk videos. You lined up the competing fireballs from each move's start, not once the fireball is active, right? The input history wasn't always visible & I didn't see the button display either to know for sure. If you make another (& I hope you do) consider that, in this game, using parry instead of jump might be a better way to show fireball recovery? I expect there'd be a flash on frame 1 that would illustrate the exact instant the character regains control. Similarly, I think setting the bot to perfect parry could be a good/cool way of showing exactly when a fireball hits, since you get that dramatic animation?
these are really good ideas! I will definitely include if I do another batch! and yes, the fireballs are lined up on the button push. My editing software let's me forward 1 frame at a time so I splice the clips at that first start up frame then mesh them !
@@TotalSagat Yeah, I have yet to see any content creator using parry like that, so maybe you'll be the 1st? 😜 I thought as much with the button press alignment & thanks for the clarification. I always get psyched when a Total Sagat video drops! Thanks for these!
You forgot about Ryu's charged EX fireball! Not that I disagree with your conclusion, his fireballs still need more utility. One good suggestion I've seen is making it so that charging gives access to 3 fireballs: an extra slow LP, an MP which is identical to the regular MP and doesn't use the charge, and an HP which would be the same as the current charged fireball
@@TotalSagat hmm, I don't know if this is the most accurate way to check, but the frame counter in training mode is saying that, at fullscreen, H charged fireball takes 27 frames to reach the opponent while EX charged fireball takes 23
@@drywalleater2661 Actually I think you are correct, I just double checked FAT frame data, it does list a quicker speed, I should have checked! Still won't beat Luke! but will probably catch Guile! Good Spot !
i feel like they purposely trying to make us forget about him in the new era since they try to make Luke(the most hated character in my opinion) a thing. But it is not happening. But i kinda realize in slowmotion Ryu fireball look alot smaller than his sfv and sf4 version
Hi Total Sagat (to bad Sagat aint in SF6.........) Remember me when i asked for help regarding the combo from Sagat and you made a video for me? About the spike combo full 3 hits from trigger into KARA DP + CA and i often miss or mess it up either char was to high to cancel CA properly from a uppercut or just window time. Anyway i found a solution finally! And its pretty consistent it goes like this: basic combo into V-trigger 2 full three hits then after SPIKE THEN simply use the "poor mans KARA L-uppercut with MK instead of HK KARA" while KEEP pressing FORWARD then cancel the MK KARA L-uppercut into CA and voila it connects (can not be done with either MK kara H--uppercut or MK kara M-uppercut both will miss) The real KARA with HK just makes it more complicated maybe due to the game not recognizing what i am trying to do. Other combos revolving around HK Kara uppercut NO issue tho weird. Just wanna to say this and also thank you for helping me with all your Sagat tutorials. Hope one day Sagat comes back to SF6 and lets HOPE he is NOT some "w0ke" dumb character like what Capcom is trying to do with its "w0ke" leftist influence in games....Cheers.
It WILL work test it out your self just replace the heavy hk kara into a mk kara to lp dp and it will work consistently sometime i think it will miss but voila it often hits even when i was a bit sloppy so its far more reliable doing this. The reason you think its to lsow is because of the mk kara M dp or H dp they WILL miss but not the mk kara L-dp. Test it out you will see its easier this way no matter where you are especially mid screen. Unfortunately there is no paypal or anything so i can show you my appreciation for your video you made for me...@@TotalSagat
Make luke's ex fireball always do them followup, in exchange for it being free. With how easily he can instantly turn a fullscreen fireball war into a knockdown and okizeme, correctly jumping his ex fireball should be more rewarding if he does it. It's probably the salt talking honestly.
I think Ryu ex denjin fireball should link into SA1 mid screen. Also denjin hadouken should be faster than shinku hadouken. Kens fireball should be worse all around... maybe his ex should knock down
Yeah ken having EX into Drive Rush pressure given his already good kit is just insane IMO. This should be a unique skill for one of the lesser characters
came for the fireball analysis, stayed for the tunes!
You are a man after my own heart, it's always about the tunes!
Capcom: Designs Ryu's whole tool kit to be total crap so he has to rely on fireballs since he is a "fireball character".
Also Capcom: Gives Ken, a top tier character with a perfect tool kit, almost identical fireballs (even better in some instances).
Ken Ex is straight up better. Better juggles, cancel into drive rush, ryu does not really need the super fast recovery, denjin could cover that. Its hard being a ryu main yet again.
These videos are as always, very interesting, very fun, and provide a lot of insight into little details on something we tend to just take for granted such as fireballs!
I guess we'll have to see how Akuma's hadoken compares, and if there's any OTHER, you know, OTHER characters with fireballs coming later!
Cant wait for V7 with akuma
I think they have "done" ryu with the "mediocre" treatment. The man should have a fireball so powerful, it blows a hole through your chest!!!
If they don't, they have failed! Why does Luke have the best gear? Answers on a postcard. Gouken would kick his Ass!!!! Bring back the LOOOOOREEE!
Enjoy my friends.
Agreed I would just take the option to use regular fireball with a Denjin stored.
it really shows how much they hate ryu the character.. there is no doubt in my mind there is something to this.. they have gone so far as to try to replace him with a hack of a character in luke and they literally gave luke everything ryu should be.. i play ryu but i honestly dont understand why when i really have no advantage in any MUs.. i am literally playing this game with one hand tied behind my back.. now i feel it is a great challenge and its teaching me things but thats not the point.. yes i know akuma is on the way but akuma should not be a buffed version of ryu.. im not sure what will fix him though because characters like JP are too good..
@@killahteck402Only wonder is how this would work control-wise while still allowing all versions to be denjined
@killahteck402 I think they should give Ryu a slow denjin fireball with two hits which would give him unique utility.
Great video! Thank you!
Finding out how there's barely any difference between Ken and Ryu's fireballs is like learning that Santa isn't real.
Lets hope they add THE KING to this game. Great vid as always
Great vid/analysis. Capcom, bring back the King! 🔥🐯🔥
I dont think swapping Ken and Ryu's ex fireball would even benefit Ryu that much, the problem is his drive rush is slow too so he still wouldnt be able to get there in time to get a follow up.
You could give it a different animation on hit ( like a higher juggle state like Dee Jays). Honestly all of Ryu's EX moves are pretty average and a waste of meter most of the time.
@@TotalSagat Yeah that might help it, and I definitely agree about the ex moves for Ryu. eX tatsu and shoryu and sometimes hado are generally the only ones ever worth it. Even then ex shoryu and hado are worse than Ken's equivalent. EX Joudan geri and Hasho are quite literally a waste of meter, you'd almost always rather drive rush outside a few niche scenarios.
I think overall they just need to give Ryu more utility, when he does get good hits he hits hard but it seems like he needs to spend more meter to keep pressure going than other characters and has a harder time finding solid hits in neutral.
Excellent analysis & tunes
Thank you!
Ngl i think having more options in the game is always a win, if you could choose when to use the denjin fireball alongside the denjin hashogeki then Ryu would be way better.
Same goes with any other bonus the character can get a skill like that.
Luke and Dee Jay I feel could do with toning down a little.. perhaps ken too.
I think Lily, Aki and poss gief could do with a bit of a rework.
Doesn't matter when you nerf one there will always be another problem character then what you going to want them nerfed too? Adapt, overcome and grow that's what fighting games are all about. I say buff them the greater the challenge the more skill you will be forced to gain in other to win.
@@RandomPerson28337 And then Zero players will use Lily and Aki etc so you might as well remove them from the game.
dude what are you talking about? people are using them now. Broski the top player in the uk mains aki and just won a major tournament against the best in the uk (problem x, hurricane etc who were using top tiers like cammy). It really doesnt stop people from using other characters.@@ToruKurosawa
@@RandomPerson28337 I was merely making the point that if they don't fix the character (make them better) that hardly anyone would use them. Which to be fair is mainly the case. The top 5 used characters in Plat / Diamond / Master are Ken, Ryu, Cammy, Luke, Marisa....
I would guess people like Dee Jay and JP are not far behind. I agree that aki is a dlc character and therefore would not be played as much for that reason. On tier lists and character % useage though people like Lily and Aki would be pretty low. I just think if they made her better more players would pick them up.
i guess thats fair@@ToruKurosawa
Hey fellow Sagat-o player! I found the HOLY GRAIL for Sagat's meaty setups on wake up vs opp. You know there are tutorials that cover quick rise and backflip right? Or setups you have to eye ball whether he uses quick or backflip which you need blistering fast reactions not really practical....
However i found THE setup for Sagat and........covers ALL three wake up options (no recovery, quick rise, backflip) with the same EXACT meaty setup no need for specific timing of different moves. And also covers if opp wakes up with either a cr normal or st normal this setup covers ALL 4fr and some 3fr depending if they cr or st wake up. If you still play SF5 with Sagat im willing to give you the setup and try for your self i might even make a video showcasing the evidence 100% works. It revolves around a KARA MK Knee...(no need for Hanuman). Did it plenty of times on opp and works so happy hehe...Oh its SAVE on block if they just wake up and block another big + for this setup so there is no risk to!
Here: basic combo into low ex shot - AS FAST as possible do KARA M-Knee (while opp is basically still in air after hit knee) then land DO CR.MP, CR.LP into whatever combo you like....If opp decides to use "no recovery nap time wake up" both your cr.mp, cr.lp will wiff right? Easy to see if that happens THEN just do a ST.HP (slight timing needed but NOT hard to do) hit confirm? Do st.lk into whatever you want....PS if you jump in with the intention to do the setup dont do ST.HK after a J.HK better do after J.HK a ST.MP - CR.MP into ex low shot this guarantees the setup. If using a ST.HK after J.HK the setup MIGHT not work due to increasing range. Try it out man ive been crippling people with this setup more and more LOL love it! DANG it i wish i found it years ago you would have LOVED this setup 100%!! It also can lead to a STUN 100% on slightly lower vitality players ie from zero stun to 100% stun lol On M.Bison he will eat a STUN (from empty stun bar to fully stunned haha)
Your videos are amazing! Thanks for all them!!
I wish you made an updated fireball funk video especially since the meta evolved to the point where people can perfect parry to nullify fireball traps and a lot of other stuff like hurtbox during recovery etc
Top tier content! Thanks mate!
Such a cool therapy! nice video
Honestly I feel like ryu either needs MASSIVE buffs to allow him to stand out among the cast or a character rework because he's just "unseasoned ken" in so many ways, his fireball may be better at pure zoning but only marginally and lacks nearly all the additional utilities ken has such as combo starting or using as a drive rush cover. Plus denjin only having one speed keeps him from being tricky with his fireballs when it would be most advantageous as he's looking to punish so he can use denjin hashogeki. Honestly he just needs additional utility on his moves and to be able to hold denjin. Maybe make it so that if he holds down punch when throwing hadouken then he just throws out a normal fireball instead of denjin. And honestly even if he did get buffed I still feel like he wouldn't be a good character overall due to the fact that he just doesn't stand out whatsoever. Everybody has their unique form of gameplay be it gameplan or the way they go about it. Ryu just overlaps with luke so much in what they try to accomplish and how they go about it that I feel one needs to be changed because of how similar they are.
Yup he's plain jane and has no "gimmick" which is pretty much essential in this version. I think an easy fix is to just make MP fireball the Denjin, since almost nobody will use MP fireball anyway.
MP fireball has use though. It’s the curveball fireball for when people jump. The large hurtbox allows for people to get hit by the back of an opponent’s jump hitbox and can confuse timing. I was actually going to recommend that they go back to using the classic shakunetsu input, half circle forward + punch. That would be a perfect way to re-introduce the shakunetsu input with a new fireball. And shakunetsu is pretty much the same as the raiko fireball. With this, Denjin charge doesn’t have to be used when shooting fireballs. I would like 3 different versions of the raiko fireball though with heavily different speeds and startup, but I’m not sure that will be needed or even thought out by Capcom.
@@joneyflopay943 That input change is a nice idea, but in this game you'd likely get the wrong move like if you were walking backwards and wanted normal fireball, I find the shortcuts too easy to mess up ( Crouching mk suddenly turns into a tatsu etc), its a tough one!
Good stuff brother!
I always love the Fireball Funk videos.
You lined up the competing fireballs from each move's start, not once the fireball is active, right? The input history wasn't always visible & I didn't see the button display either to know for sure.
If you make another (& I hope you do) consider that, in this game, using parry instead of jump might be a better way to show fireball recovery? I expect there'd be a flash on frame 1 that would illustrate the exact instant the character regains control. Similarly, I think setting the bot to perfect parry could be a good/cool way of showing exactly when a fireball hits, since you get that dramatic animation?
these are really good ideas! I will definitely include if I do another batch! and yes, the fireballs are lined up on the button push. My editing software let's me forward 1 frame at a time so I splice the clips at that first start up frame then mesh them !
@@TotalSagat Yeah, I have yet to see any content creator using parry like that, so maybe you'll be the 1st? 😜
I thought as much with the button press alignment & thanks for the clarification.
I always get psyched when a Total Sagat video drops! Thanks for these!
You forgot about Ryu's charged EX fireball! Not that I disagree with your conclusion, his fireballs still need more utility. One good suggestion I've seen is making it so that charging gives access to 3 fireballs: an extra slow LP, an MP which is identical to the regular MP and doesn't use the charge, and an HP which would be the same as the current charged fireball
The charged EX I'm certain has no extra speed. Only the hits.
@@TotalSagat hmm, I don't know if this is the most accurate way to check, but the frame counter in training mode is saying that, at fullscreen, H charged fireball takes 27 frames to reach the opponent while EX charged fireball takes 23
@@drywalleater2661 Actually I think you are correct, I just double checked FAT frame data, it does list a quicker speed, I should have checked! Still won't beat Luke! but will probably catch Guile! Good Spot !
Long gone are the days of ryu being a good zoner
i feel like they purposely trying to make us forget about him in the new era since they try to make Luke(the most hated character in my opinion) a thing. But it is not happening. But i kinda realize in slowmotion Ryu fireball look alot smaller than his sfv and sf4 version
Thanks for this video i hope they put sagat in the game
Luke has not Fireballs , he has FireGuns 😂
dee jay gets an even better combo from EX air slasher than shown in the video. he can do EX slasher > 4HK > heavy machine gun upper > level 3 instead
Yeah I'm not familiar with DeeJay's options, it was just to show that he does get a lot more utility from the situation
Fireball funk foreverrrr
I wish Ryu's fireballs had faster recovery, around 42-43 frames
would have liked to see a comparison for jp's fireball at midrange, but it's pretty slow there, with the extra startup time
no it will be the same , it's the recovery that JP is weaker at, Ryu can AA before JP can basically
Hi Total Sagat (to bad Sagat aint in SF6.........) Remember me when i asked for help regarding the combo from Sagat and you made a video for me? About the spike combo full 3 hits from trigger into KARA DP + CA and i often miss or mess it up either char was to high to cancel CA properly from a uppercut or just window time. Anyway i found a solution finally! And its pretty consistent it goes like this: basic combo into V-trigger 2 full three hits then after SPIKE THEN simply use the "poor mans KARA L-uppercut with MK instead of HK KARA" while KEEP pressing FORWARD then cancel the MK KARA L-uppercut into CA and voila it connects (can not be done with either MK kara H--uppercut or MK kara M-uppercut both will miss)
The real KARA with HK just makes it more complicated maybe due to the game not recognizing what i am trying to do. Other combos revolving around HK Kara uppercut NO issue tho weird. Just wanna to say this and also thank you for helping me with all your Sagat tutorials. Hope one day Sagat comes back to SF6 and lets HOPE he is NOT some "w0ke" dumb character like what Capcom is trying to do with its "w0ke" leftist influence in games....Cheers.
Thats awesome , didnt think the slow kara was fast enough! I do remember you!
It WILL work test it out your self just replace the heavy hk kara into a mk kara to lp dp and it will work consistently sometime i think it will miss but voila it often hits even when i was a bit sloppy so its far more reliable doing this. The reason you think its to lsow is because of the mk kara M dp or H dp they WILL miss but not the mk kara L-dp. Test it out you will see its easier this way no matter where you are especially mid screen. Unfortunately there is no paypal or anything so i can show you my appreciation for your video you made for me...@@TotalSagat
No Sim or Rashid?
Sim I completely forgot, Rashids fireball....is kinda strange, doesn't really get used like regular plasma. If i do another I'll be sure to update!
Make luke's ex fireball always do them followup, in exchange for it being free. With how easily he can instantly turn a fullscreen fireball war into a knockdown and okizeme, correctly jumping his ex fireball should be more rewarding if he does it.
It's probably the salt talking honestly.
brilliant idea, I like it
Good stuff! Also whats the name of the song? ^^
Leaving, Pet shop boys (its in the description)
I think Ryu ex denjin fireball should link into SA1 mid screen. Also denjin hadouken should be faster than shinku hadouken.
Kens fireball should be worse all around... maybe his ex should knock down
Yeah ken having EX into Drive Rush pressure given his already good kit is just insane IMO. This should be a unique skill for one of the lesser characters
2 frames between Ryu and Ken is a joke. Ken’s should be way worse considering the rest of his bullshit kit.
Add Dhalsim pls, next time! Thanks for the vid.
Yeah I just said that to a friend this morning, I forgot him !
Great video. Luke's fireballs are disgraceful. It's really pathetic how they intentionally make them so much better.
I think it's annoying that just everything for him is better. Akuma better be a beast!
blame the two capcom executive that they hired
Ryu needs zero buffs
Good stuff, bro. Keep it up. I've learned a lot from u via twitter n youtube
That ending is a good ass tease and we already know who is coming. Thaiger forever👍🫡