Expressive-E Osmose : Initial Impressions #2
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Here's the second installment of my adventures with the incredibly expressive Expressive-E Osmose.
I'm using the word "expressivity" a lot in this video, I may be using it out of context but it just feels like the word "expression" is not enough! ;)
As with your previous Osmose video, this is a truly excellent introduction to the instrument. Thank you very much.
Again, lovely playing. I think this is a beautiful instrument, more focused on playing and expression than some synth tinkerers might like. For some this will be very valuable.
To be fair, the power input thing was cleary stated in the quickstart guide, so lesson 1: always RTFM
A real keyboardist NRTFM .. they explore blindly 😆Those "OH .. It can do THAT !!!" moments is priceless 😘
No need for the universal adjective.
One thing I discovered. Although you can select either internal or MIDI it appears that you cannot do both because of the way the menu is presented as if you have to pick one or the other. However when I selected MIDI to play other synths the internal Osmose synth engine still also plays. The macro options depend on whether the synth engine is AN or FM or sampled sounds which is why they appear different. Randomization is popular like on the Montage and Fantom I wonder if they might add a randomization option that randomly shuffles the macros so with a single button press it could automatically create a variant. MIght be quicker than rotating knobs and not knowing what it's doing exactly. Maybe even a super knob function assigned to the modulation or pedal that changes all the macros at once in different ways, amounts, directions etc.
Would be interested to hear it as controller for physical modeling plug ins like Swam stuff or orchestral libraries
Very advanced state of the art keybed. Velocity, channel after touch, expressive dynamics, basically a dream keyboard.. wish I could afford one.
Channel aftertouch?!
Poly aftertouch
Channel aftertouch, polyphonic aftertouch, MPE, or MPE+. Your choice, whichever settings you want.
even better than your first initial impressions video 👍 cool to see the progress how you are getting to know the osmose
Thank you, Tim, for pointing out the downward dynamic of this keyboard! I have been playing piano since roughly 1975 and synth since about 1982, and two things have bothered me with how synths have created sound.
1) Sound is always introduced by switches making contact - like a piano with hammers and strings, once the process is started, it runs its envelope to the end. What if it were controlled by the depth of the press of the key? Like air released from a balloon (or breath across the flute mouthpiece), it could be controlled.
2) Watching violinists create vibrato with strings, I have wished I could do that on a keyboard - one finger, no pedals or modwheels.
I have wondered these things for decades - too long really - only to acquiesce to the fact that it was not possible (or something equally defeatist). Along comes the Osmose with all of these and more (let's talk portamento) that just seem so intuitive, so natural. Unfortunately, a veteran keyboardist might have to take a lesson from Yoda (You must unlearn what you have learned), but one can put aside the preconceptions of an old-style keyboard and treat this like a woodwind or string instrument that just happens to have a keyboard interface (like a melodica, for example).
As always, Tim, I am blown away by your ability to elicit these refinements - and I'm sure there'll be more. Thank you for spotlighting the nuances this keyboard offers to our community. I have ordered mine but, as I am in the States, it'll be a while before I play my own Osmose. I'm living vicariously through you :)
lot's of thoughts & ideas being released here , Bobby Mc Farrin , plays himself ? ? thought I'd throw that one in
I guess its like the Seaboard - it took me months of playing , to get to a point where i didnt hate that unit ....now ive grown to love My Seaboard !
Thank you Tim for this fantastic demo!
purity and focus, i think is the key, great vid, tempting to have a go and check it out.
I think you are a pretty good keyboard player, Tim 😊
Another great video. I always appreciate your keyboard playing no matter how many fingers you use.
Certainly different,thanks for this demo,great sounds,
Thanks Tim for spending some time rectifying what went wrong in your first Osmose impression video. Have you tried using the Osmose together with other (analog) synths yet, like in create a track?
Very pleased the crashing is resolved... its a great sounding synth
Thanks for the second video, Tim! 👌😎
Very interesting video - I like the discussion of the Yamaha breath control and the Korg Prophecy (I have the VL-70M and the Z1) and the fact that yes, they modelled acoustic instruments, so there was going to be a lot of those sounds. I like your choice of sounds and you're right, many of these sounds don't really need to be "played" in the traditional sense; they kinda play themselves with a single key press. The sounds and playing work well together, though - and you don't go overboard with the "wiggliness" that I've seen in a lot of the videos on here. One of the best demos I've seen.
Yay Tim S on the scene!! Dig it man. Many thanks for a great couple of videos on the osmose. I’m wondering how it fits into your own work. Sounds great! Reminds me of 2000s workstations. But streamlined and futuristic.
What’s next for controllers?
nicely spotted on the power input - thanks!
I found the file 2 update in global and midi settings, bottom right (under utilities)... worked for me but ymmv
yep, this is what he needs to do. "Update Firmware->Load Update File 2 (~7 mins)"
If possible and of any interest to you, I for one would love to see you explore some of the expressive features of the instrument in the context of addressing some analog hardware via the Osmose's MIDI connectivity. Perhaps you could find some creative or interesting patch ideas for controlling your ARP 2600 M or GRP A1 via a MIDI to CV converter, for example? probably too much of a hassle though, so don't bother unless you're already really keen.
On an unrelated note, as amazing and inspiring as the instrument is, there are three things I would love to see implemented on a future iteration: 1) CV outputs (for pitch, gate/trigger, and one modulation source at the very least, so that you don't have to map MIDI CC and connect to a MIDI/CV converter, 2) capacitive keys (so you had at least another X axis running the length of each individual key, including the dark area above the black keys, which could be another expression/modulation input, like the virtual 'keys' on the iPad/iPhone Animoog app, or the surface of the Touché), and 3) an adaptive haptic keybed (something similar to the DualSense controller triggers for PS5, so that the up/down and left/right tension and mechanical resistance could be independently varied depending on the patch).
for example, a sampled acoustic piano with a synth layer on top that has filter cutoff mapped to key capacitance. adaptive haptics could limit the type of movement and resistance to imitate the action of nicely weighted piano keys - with the ability for up/down, right/left movement and tension to be adjusted to taste and saved in the software's patch-level settings, and also saved to a 'keybed action' template pool, the way modulation settings on the Moog One can be stored separately. meanwhile, the capacitive keys act identical to a modwheel patched to filter cutoff, except you have that filter cutoff control over each individual voice - essentially polyphonic after-touch/channel pressure, except then poly AT could be reserved for something like PWM, and pitch bend could (optionally) be mapped to key 'wiggle' by 'loosinging' tension on the left/right keybed action parameter. there may need to be some form of microcontroller to interpret the articulation and subsequent modulation coming from key capacitance. I'm thinking of how the touch strip on the CS-80 affect pitch bend: wherever you place your finger on the touch strip (or capacitive key in this case) the instrument registers that as the default initial value, and either scales the modulation to provide a consistent amount of depth, the resolution of control over mod depth being dependent upon remaining available length of the key - or - it treats the modulation depth as static, so that if you initially depress the bottom of the key you have the most depth available moving toward the top, or vice-versa. capacitance could also be programmed act as an attenuator (or inverting attenuator) for example. convenient for unipolar modulation (depress the bottom of a key and push up to open a low-pass filter, or go from top to bottom to open a high-pass) and also bi-polar modulation (depress the key in the middle, moving it upward or downward to bend pitch, or make an LFO rate increase or decrease).
pie in the sky, and it's sort of irrelevant because these features to not exist, cannot be implemented in firmware (at least not capacitive keys), and if Expressive E were to come out with a "pro" or advanced iteration, the cost of adding those functions to the hardware would presumably be prohibitively expensive at this point in time. still a fun thought experiment, however.
Im using it hooked up to my eurorack case using Squarp Hermod, and it's amazing, I'm using it in the classic keyboard mode to get a monophonic voice controlled using the velocity and aftertouch... it is just SOO expressive, I love it :) I'll try to get a video of that up
@@jam_in_a_box I would love to see that vid! I assume you can map other 'expression' controls, like the left-right 'wobble' of the keys and different pressure zones of aftertouch. wonder if it's possible to map (limited) poly-AT; use one pair of Hermod CV outs for Gate and Pitch and the other six for six-voice aftertouch? of course you'd need six independent oscillators or filters to patch those outputs to, but that's doable...
Great you got things sorted Tim, I am in 2 minds for this. 4K AUD here which is almost 3 times what they were asking for KS.
11:02 really piques my interest as it would not something that early TGDs albums had back in the day. You almost have me convinced here lol.
That is a perfect way to play an expressive lead and is what I would love in my music.
I have read some complaining that this sounds digital, I think it sounds evocative and extremely soulful, sort of opposite of what some digital can sound like.
The beauty is, you're doing all this at your fingertips which is extremely important for me when it comes to not being a traditional player, but someone who wants to evoke without having to have foot pedals or other methods that simple take up too much skillset.
Not saying this is a dumbed down player's synth, but it does the same as what my e touche' pedal does but on a per key basis.
The macros are set up the same way but in a laborious way in software which is why I have been eyeing the Osmose for a few years.
I like to turn my gear on and play, spending more time playing than doing the "techie" things that make things off putting.
Thx for the upload, it's one of the few vids that have shown more capabilities that make it a possible purchase.
I know 100% John Carpenter would love to get his hands on one, he loves his VSTs and this would have been so much more *expressive* for him when he was working on his scores back in the days.
You forgot to reply to my comments from his video some weeks ago. You refused to answer any of my questions regarding the argument, then you said I never asked questions. I stated them again even though it seemed like a waste of time and you never replied.
@@kevinhuman6275 replying to you is a waste of time, you never once asked a question, stick to John's channel where the info is somewhat skewed and always incorrect.
@@dankeplace “somewhat skewed and always incorrect” it’s like you’re trolling, but I think you’re serious ?
@@kevinhuman6275 it's easy to turn off notifications from you, that's how you silence a troll.
Your presentation is exclusive. No reading out the spec sheet but more of a practical usage. While 99% of reviewers start with a piano sound, you started with the playing / key action etc.
May your tribe grow. 👍🏻
I would like to know the following.
- Solo violin .. with portamento (does it crossfade between different samples)
- Can I layer the presets, not to create a texture, but to create a new voice based on crossfade etc.
- Can I create my own sounds? Say a Veena?
- Can I connect an external monitor to make the display large and directly in front?
- What is the price, and warranty if I can get this in India?
My worries are
- If this would sustain a dusty environment / taking this on road
- Again warranty and support.
Love evolving pads!
More please!
Whuooo.. Questo Synth mi sembra veramente Fantastico. Credo che sia ciò che stavi cercando da senpre, un espressività del suono. Amo, Adoro sequencer e suoni atmosfere TD, innovazione e ricerche Eno questo credo sia il passo successivo. Il mio dubbio è l utizzo del software in cui sono totalmente ignorante e incompetente. Non so se avrò occasione, possibilità di acquistarlo considerando di utilizzarlo senza il software, ma semplicemente come solista ambient. Grazie grazie ancora.. Seguirò prossimi videos. 🙏❤️
In the first video you show how the key glide goes up half the way to the next key pressed, but you did not show that when you then lift the first finger, the sound continues to travel all the way to the second key, so you can bend very precisely - and fully - from one key to another.
Also, from your showcase it's not completely clear that there are two layers of pressure/aftertouch on top of each other. The first range is the easy press at the beginning, the second is the stiffer range that comes after. Those are sent as pressure and CC74 via midi/MPE or MPE+ with the second set of virtual midi inputs. Works great with MPE-synths like Plasmonic or Cypher etc.
Velocity you have on top of all that.
Also great to connect an expression pedal - just be sure to calibrate it in the settings, otherwise it does nothing.
As for the firmware/editor: Just let the editor apply this second firmware update (in the settings) - takes a while but then it works!
We're very happy with ours - had the same issue with the power plug you had though... ;-)
Will dive into the Eagan Matrix when we have some serious downtime...
If you ever feel like doing some intro tutorial on that, I'd be all ears ;-)
Great Video. Thanks! As for ideas for a next video... either a) dive into that editor!! .... or b) highlight some presets that show both how close and how far it can get to/from "traditional" synth sounds. Cheers!
another awesome short film on synths! Award worthy if there is such a classification for these kinds of videos ~ seems like an expressive keyboard I shall lust after
~ QUESTION, does the left-right pitch wiggle auto-map to Pitch Wheel on other synths? (when using Osmose as a controller)
Thanks Tim
Great video again. Thank you very much for that. I didn't hear any cackling key noise. Is it only noisy depending on how you play? I guess when you play softly, it's not an issue at all?
Glad you made a second video, thank you!
Are you using any external delays or reverbs? Or is everything generated only by the Osmose?
Pretty sure this is all Osmose
@dankeplace yes it sounds like the factory presets without external processing.
As a player of a Roli Seaboard I was very interested in your videos. I think both intruments has their advantage. It depends on what you you prefer. The Osmose has keys. This is an advantage for us piano players. You always play the right notes. On the Seaboard, this is more difficult, because there is this silicon field and the "keys" on top. I played many false Notes because I didn`t catch the right place with my finger. But You can turn this expression (glide) off. Then it is easier for beginners to play the right notes. I don`t know, if I like this clacky Keyboard of the Osmose and how it will be in 5 years. An Advantage for the Seaboard is, that you have more Expression capabilitys. You can use the whole board as a ribbon. The expression way up on the "keys" is longer, than the 2 cm down on the key from the Osmose. I think this gets you more controll, how much expression you want to play. And the Seaboard got an XY field for further control. Another Advantage of the Osmose is, that you can play it without computer. The Seaboard needs Equator. But Equator (2) is an amazing Editor! And - if you want to get deeper in the Osmose, you also need a computer...
I think, both are great. It depends what you prefer more. Osmose is easier to handle, secure playing. Seaboard is more difficult to handle but has more expression capabilities and a bigger Sound engine.
Forget about this "how will it be in 5 years" conjecture - nobody knows.. and I don't think anyone really should comment on that unless they've disassembled the unit and done a technical analysis of the key mechanism. I assume it's similar to Touché, and those _are_ working still after 5 years, so..
Rolis break if you leave them left standing against the wall (jelly dribbles down one end)..but it doesn't take anything away from the instrument
@@Wagoo I think the E touche` has proven itself with longevity, I thought the Osmose was based on similar tech but have yet to see a break down of the inner workings of the Osmose.
I know the company is reliable and in some ways, the time it took to release to market would have given the BETA testers some real working hours for the units they have.
@@dankeplace I actually decided to buy a Touché based on having the Osmose and it turned up today. They do feel quite different, but I can imagine if there was a stick stuck to the Touché, then touching the end of that would feel like the big aftertouch zone in the Osmose keys. The top half of the key travel feels quite like a normal synth keybed action.. which is a bonus. Then it goes into this resistive more Touché feeling area
@@Wagoo nice, I think you will have a ball with both, that's an award for 2024 too you won LOL.
Seems like a nice variation on the Hydrasynth structure.. bit more performance-oriented, so perhaps more fit for live usage? Definitely gives DX7 vibes with its idiosyncratic programming.
Great video. I am a drummer and looking for any help to get my ideas out. And this is it.
People were really moaning about natural sounds? I don't understand! How can you have all that freedom of sound creation and not want the brass, woodwind and strings? That's all I've bought mine for!
Some of the patches remind me of the D-50, in extremely expressive. The Osmose has replaced the Polybrute as my "if money is no longer an issue" grail. ;)
Really good way for the follow up. With that instrument it must be about what's not possible yet otherwise. No point in playing flute with it.
Does Tim ever actually read or respond to his comments?
Did you ever try the ROLI Seaboard ?
Do the black keys do all the same tricks? You seem to play mostly in C and Em with few blacks , so it’s not obvious. The blacks are shorter levers so does this mean they respond differently?
Watch my other Osmose videos, subscribe to my channel and press the like button a lot to find out 😂 But seriously, watch my other Osmose videos for some black key action.
My goodness. So does this mean that synth players will now need to debate whether "tone is all in the fingers"?
Tim, I’d be very interested to hear whether you feel the Osmose adds anything to the experience of playing the Super6 as an MPE instrument. I was originally interested in the Osmose as an MPE controller, but I’m starting to wonder whether its particular type of action only shines with the kind of parameter-heavy physical modeling sounds that the Eaganmatrix can produce (or perhaps something like Pigments). In other words, all this polyphonic sophistication might just be lost with subtractive synthesis.
As long as they play well together (which is mostly up to UDO's end, and if you're willing to take the time match up the CCs you're sending with what the receiving synth wants), then it should be GREAT for the sounds Super 6 is good at. Imagine playing S6 pads, where each finger controls the envelope of that note (the more you press, the louder it gets). Then, you can add micro-variations to the pitch of each note, by wiggling each key. The question for Tim, or whoever had both right now, is if the Super 6 plays well with the data Osmose sends. I'd recommend trying MPE first, before MPE+. It will probably take some trial and error to get set up, and thereafter be awesome.
@@GizzyDillespee Agree. One a side note, It takes a LOT of fiddling around get the Hydrasynth module to play well with the Roli Rise 49.
I'd be interested too. The osmose seems absolutely incredible, but I'm wondering what the actual capabilities are over MPE, how hard/possible is it to get MPE enabled synths using the data in the same way as the internal engine
Hi Tim and thank you for your second video/impressions on Expressive E Osmose. I have a question, also considering that you mentioned them during the video: compared to the Yamaha VL-1, the Korg Prophecy (and above all compared to the current Aodyo Anima Phi), can the Osmose represent a true evolution and an effective step in forward? Are there any features of the synthesizers I mentioned above that the Osmose can't do? Thank you very much
I think for many it comes down to choice of polyphony. Those other keyboards (VL and Prophecy) are solo instruments, they utilise breath controllers, ribbon controllers and controller wheels. Those kinds of controllers can not work polyphonically. The Osmose on the other hand provides extra expression via direct interaction with the keyboard, so polyphonic expression is built in.
I don't have much experience with the Prophecy, I picked it up quite recently. I've also got a VL70 so I'll definitely spend some time soon comparing them, and maybe I'll record a video on that subject.
@@TimShoebridge It would be great! If you could make a video demonstrating the differences between the Prophecy + VL70 Vs the Osmose, it would be very appreciated. In particular, I'd be curious to understand if the Osmose with its advanced keyboard, allows you to be able to control the same parameters offered by the breath, the ribbon and the wheels controller of the Prophecy/ VL70.
Thank you very much in advance
The velocity: Your fingers are your envelopp.
The connector: Expressiv E should insist on this point in their ownner's manual or even put a warning sticker on the plug, such a tiny detail can ruin the 1st user experience and it's bad for the brand (even if I think this is not an instrument for beginers in the world of synths).
Generaly speaking, I'm very interested by this instrument but I would love to see a video about how it MIDI-sends all these playing informations (MIDI, MIDI 2.0, MPE?) as I think, with more octaves, this could be an excellent "master keyboard", not limited to its in-board synth engine.
On the power: they do - it's the first thing mentioned in the quickstart guide under "connections"
It is mentioned on page 2 of the quick start guide just under "before you start" being the first point. "LOCKABLE POWER CONNECTOR" with a yellow exclamation mark :)
That Editor looks a UI nightmare!
Don't know that I prefer Roli Equator 2 sounds which are very very beautiful.
Glad you finally got plugged Tim.
@SYNTHPUNK ORIGINAL and you need a computer to run it, you cannot get no where near the play style of what the Osmose can do, what is your point?
You use a mouse to make music?
In your own words, zero muscianship.
The reason I pulled back on purchasing one now, if the software does not get improved on, I really do not want to spend their asking.
The importer here is price gouging to an extreme level, almost double USD, whilst it's the cheapest MPE available here, the thing that holds me back is that software integration.
Those tiny ac adapter plugs should really be banned. the adapters will almost always either break down at some point, go up in flames, or the thin cables on them breaks after plugging it in/ou enough times, or the socket on the board breakes. Plus there is a myriade of different plug types and the boards sometimes use some obscure voltages so it can be hard to find a replacement if you can't get an original adaptor. And all the different adapters is a mess when your setting your gear up. It's the most annoying thing for gigging musicians that gear that cost well over 1k$ uses them just to save money on getting a proper psu approved in different countries.
This is such a brilliant keyboard tho 🙂
0:57 Assuming they didn't provide a 2.5mm version when it should have been 2.1mm, Expressive E should have provided a connector which has the sprung contacts in the inside in order to prevent this issue. Unsprung ones tend to loosen up over time anyway. Not your fault.
My Osmose shows up next month. Looking forward to trying it out. :)
It's a locking connector that rotates to lock into position. It was just user error
@@Wagoo I saw that part, but these do better with a sprung connector inside regardless. The fit looks pretty loose in the video. Maybe it isn't in person. I will find out in a month. :)
It's loose when it's not plugged in properly. Ideally it shouldn't connect any power when not connected fully, but it's a complete none issue. It's understandable there's confusion, I've never seen this type of connector before either.. but it's all there in the quickstart guide. Hope you can find out yourself in a month 👍
Extra,ordinary,sensitive,,,key,,board,,,soul,,touching,,sounds
Interesting. I’ve been really keen to see this out and being used but… I can’t help feeling a little underwhelmed. Sorry everyone but all I’ve been hearing are the flutes etc and I’d be using it to play a straight piano sound as well and would like know what that experience is like…
Would love to connect this to my Neutron! 🎛 🔈 🔉 🔊
Unless the Neutron is multitimbral, or supports the old 6 channel mode they used to use for guitar MIDI, then using the Osmose as a dedicated controller probably wouldn't add much. However, you could play the Osmose's internal sound engine, while at the same time having it send regular MIDI to Neutron, and then blend their audio in a mixer/interface. I bet the sounds would mesh nicely, if chosen well.
That's a rare synth, so you might be the only one to try that combo.
Should have gone to specsavers
I don't like it....
Don't take this the wrong way, but I stopped watching after less than 8 minutes because the word "expressivity" was used yet again. It just distracts me from work.
Let it go man
I love the Expressive E expressivity while eating McVitie's on an Express bus to Nancy
The joy of the English language! "Expressiveness" is possibly an alternative word but that would speak to the sonic result of the expressivity rather than the technical capability of the instrument itself.
@@Wagoo lol
@@Wagoo did you get yours yet?