Wow! What great information and your presentation was organized and concise. Coming out of Protestantism I had to reevaluate everything I thought I knew and music was huge! This will be very helpful for me in continue to guide my young adult/teenage children in their choice of music as they become more independent! Thank you for this!
I would love beginner educational videos from you Eliza! Please! I’ve been wanting to learn the basics to help out at some parishes I’ve seen that are in need of musical help.
Thank you this thorough explanation! The examples of the romantic composers to avoid makes perfect sense as to why they (and music like this) are used as movie scores meant to excite our lower passions or melodramatic emotions.
Oh my gosh I loved this so much! Put myself through college working at Independent Records in Colorado in the 80s! My musical tastes have changed over the years as I grow closer to God. Eliza you mentioned some piano lessons on your website, so timely I’m inheriting my mother’s piano and hauling to Florida! God willing I can learn at the ripe age of 60! 😂 Thank you Kevin always enjoy CFP! God’s blessings and keep up the great work! 🙏
Did SST have "Independent Record Store Day" when you were worked there by reducing their record sales by 50% annually on 1 specific day? I miss those days.
This is wonderful!!! I could listen to Eliza talk on this topic all day! Can you please post the link to the other interviews mentioned that you have done on the topic of music. I am also a convert from protestantism, a life long music lover, (all types but a great lover of early music) and once I discovered Gregorian chant I can barely listen to anything else. In fact I find myself very intolerant of some polyphonic Mass settings as I feel they can "overwhelm" the Mass. I recently heard a Mass with Vierne's Messe Solennelle. I really disliked it! Would be interested in Eliza's thoughts on this composer. Thank you! Please have her back again!
Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath is considered the basis of all heavy metal and the riff is a tritone. 54:44 Same with Judas Priest's Rob Halford, extremely high pitched screams. I grew up on metal music and I've put it away but still settled on synth pop, Tears for Fears, Thompson Twins etc. I'll try the cleanse.
I also grew up from a young age into metal music, I've done the cleanse and the only thing that really stuck was this specific genre of power metal. That is what genre I grew up on, it is different to other metal as it often times is obsessed with baroque, classical, Latin, even Christian or even Catholic themes, obsession with recreating Pachelbel, good vs evil at the very least is a huge topic, it is Tolkien esque in some ways as a modern art, it takes a TON of discernment and it is passionate, particular in the drum and vocal department but after the cleanse I was still able to digest it, I've never found a modern music that felt as canon as that. I still prefer sacred music to it, but I can digest it in some instances. I still haven't heard a definitive judgement of it or why God has it existing.
@@dukeofthedance8062 I agree, metal is also what brought me back to the Church and furthermore to traditional Catholicism. I'm just looking for opinions of power metal in relation to Catholicism, that is all as it is a standout among rock music for the traits I mentioned above. I'm well aware of black sabbath, I would go further and say Candlemass (interesting band name) also has interesting Christian lyrics, and much better than black sabbath, Veni Domine is another band in that vein with Christian lyrics; but undoubtedly I've found many deceitful metal bands in my time, I might enjoy power metal which absolutely has lyrics even praising God in Latin over heavy guitars and drums, but I've listened to about everything and it must be met with heavy, heavy discernment and certainly genres like black metal are purely evil and will draw people away from Satan just based on their hopeless imagery as it doesn't even try for subtlety that is clearly evil and you can judge it easily, but most other genres are far more deceitful. I read the bible each day in the liturgy or divine office and at mass, other times. These youtubers are actually quite astute on this matter actually. Sacred music above all is my go-to. Bruckner is very exciting, yet reverend like power metal, in fact when she mentioned that era in the vid I was waiting for his name to be dropped. Requiems especially get to me: Josef Rheinberger (Similar to Bruckner) Requiem in B♭ Minor or Gabriel Fauré (very modern) Requiem are solid ones and if you can manage to chant along you can pray for the poor souls in Purgatory.
I wonder how Eliza feels about listening to soundtrack music? I realize it's more akin to romanticism, as it's supposed to help evoke a specific emotion to go with the film, but there are some very beautiful pieces, and some that really help me focus. I'd also like to hear more her thoughts on folk music. American folk music is often Protestant-influenced, so... is it only Celtic that she recommends?
I’ll try to find the direct quote I found when I did a presentation on him (before I converted to Catholicism) and I actually praised his masonry, overly passionate revolutionary spirit, and humanism because I did not have the light of faith. He wrote once in a letter “I have often cursed my creator and my existence”
I used to listen to all kinds of filth music but I always noticed that the lyrics always referred to something satanic. Eminem always had lyrics talking about how he sold his soul to the devil. If you pay attention these songs and movies are always telling us something.
She is a great guest,have her back on. 76-81 Punk Rock was fun,crowds would pogo,sci fi sun glasses,etc 82-88 Hardcore took over,crowds slam danced,stage dived,combat boots,and wouldn't ya know it,blasphemy & songs bashing Christianity took over. 1990's hip hop was shoved down our throats,it has been a fast steep decline subsequently.
Almost every tenet of this argument is indefensible when challenged by asking for proof. I have no argument when you're talking church music, however any attempt to link the downfall of civilization to popular music is laughable, and claiming that popular music should be composed to glorify God is ridiculous, unless you only mean it in the vaguest of terms in that everything we do is intended to glorify God. Popular music does not need to be written with a religious intent, it does not need to lift the mind and soul. It's intended as a form of entertainment. This is consistent across all forms of entertainment. You wouldn't hold movies or books to this same level. As long as they are absent any immoral content, they are perfectly acceptable and fulfill their role as a source of entertainment. They do not need to aspire to affect the consumers' life on any level higher than providing a transient pleasurable experience. The argument that music "appeals to the lower faculties" is also ridiculous. Why is an emotional response to external stimuli somehow immoral? Is it immoral for me to ski a black diamond? Because I get similar sensations from the dopamine and adrenaline rush. There is no good argument for why it's immoral to have a subconscious biological response to any form of entertainment. Claiming that music has the ability to summon spirits is not only wrong, it's not consistent with Catholic teaching. The disposition and intention of the souls of the participants of those rituals is what would lead to any potential possession, not sound waves. It's purely superstitious and illogical to ascribe supernatural power to vibrating air molecules. The lack of ability to concisely and accurately describe the immorality in modern music, other than the obvious issues with lyrics, and the constant vauge and unfounded statements discredits the entire premise. This is just another example of trads refusing to believe that the environment we live in changes and we should change with it within the bounds of morality. Still waiting for someone to make a good supporting argument other than "It has origins in tribalism". That's not an argument. "If the singer is harming their voice by singing, that style is bad for the listener" - Not an argument. "It gives me a bad feeling" - Not an argument. There is quite simply no coherent, logical argument presented in this podcast. "No one would dance impurely to celtic music" LOL. Regarding the "cleanse". Might actually give it a shot just to see what happens even if it just gives me a new appreciation for the music I listen to now. However, I was raised without ever hearing a single modern song in our house. And I can't say I have ever found classical music to be particularly enjoyable. Some things come down to taste, and you shouldn't try to make it a moral argument.
If the entire premise is so utterly laughable, I wonder why you took the time to write such a long comment. You already have everything figured out it seems, so just laugh and move on.
For anyone of good will, there is plenty of proof I can share. In a single podcast it was entirely impossible to cover everything. This was a basic overview and with thousands of years of music to cover, it was simply not possible to give everything you asked for here in a single episode. If Kevin wants to do another part, I’ll be happy to explain in great detail exactly what some of these rhythmic patterns do to the human body (talking mainly about jazz, rock, pop, hip hop, electronic, etc). For now, I can give the main gist of it: these rhythms rooted in pagan ritual drumming served a specific purpose to create a frenzy of sexual immorality and violence where devils would be summoned to possess people present and dictate messages to them. If you think there is absolutely zero correlation between what happened at the first Rolling Stones concert in California where a massive mob frenzy broke out, people stripped naked, committed sexual sins, danced immorally, and one man jumped on the stage and tried to kill people while others beat each other up in droves, then you have chosen blindness and there is no proof I can possibly present to you that will do anything for you. There are thousands more examples and even scientific studies I can site to show how some of these rhythms send blood flow to sexual organs and arouse anger, but again this must be looked at with good will in the heart, which your comment indicates you don’t have. Take care
Can you give an example of a song that isn’t immoral that you would recommend? You made so many Straw-man arguments that it’s impossible to answer all of them, Eliza did not make the argument that every single song needs to mention God, just that it needs to be uplifting but the fact that you feel the need to say that in a comment tells me a lot about you. If you knew anything about Eliza, you know she applies the same standard to literally every form of media (Books and movies) and I believe we all should as well it’s never a good practice to assume without seeking clarity on someone not applying the same standards across the board. I don’t think media only exists for entertainment and if you believe its only purpose is to entertain then I would ask you to reconsider, many souls are being lost due to entertainment.
@crusaderfilmworks if you believe that entertainment must contain a religious component or is required to assist in your spiritual life, you're simply incorrect. There are many actions that are morally neutral that are perfectly valid forms of entertainment, such as sports, board games, etc. Books, movies, shows, and music are no different. My original comment has no intention of personally attacking Eliza or Kevin, I do not know them personally and have made no assumptions about their character. My statement is based solely off of what was stated in this podcast, such as "I believe music cannot be neutral, it either harms or improves your spiritual life" (not a direct quote, just from memory". Statements such as this directly imply that music has to be written with an moral objective higher than just avoiding immorality, which is not the case. Other evidence of this position is that in the beginning of the podcast, it was stated that Gregorian Chant is the framework for all music, religious and secular, and deviating from that is objectionable. Another statement that is simply indefensible
This is an excellent podcast, and so helpful.
I will definitely look out for Eliza’s play list and music cleansing.
Wow! What great information and your presentation was organized and concise.
Coming out of
Protestantism I had to reevaluate everything I thought I knew and music was huge!
This will be very helpful for me in continue to guide my young adult/teenage children in their choice of music as they become more independent!
Thank you for this!
This was a Fantastic interview! I dont even want to think about the stuff I used to listen to.
Love the idea you have on basic singing.
I would love beginner educational videos from you Eliza! Please! I’ve been wanting to learn the basics to help out at some parishes I’ve seen that are in need of musical help.
Great interview! Thank you for a great explanation of music history! I will share with others.
Thank you this thorough explanation! The examples of the romantic composers to avoid makes perfect sense as to why they (and music like this) are used as movie scores meant to excite our lower passions or melodramatic emotions.
So much wisdom, Eliza!!!
Music cleansing, brilliant, thank you!
Incroyable.
Thank you!!
Oh my gosh I loved this so much! Put myself through college working at Independent Records in Colorado in the 80s! My musical tastes have changed over the years as I grow closer to God. Eliza you mentioned some piano lessons on your website, so timely I’m inheriting my mother’s piano and hauling to Florida! God willing I can learn at the ripe age of 60! 😂 Thank you Kevin always enjoy CFP! God’s blessings and keep up the great work! 🙏
Did SST have "Independent Record Store Day" when you were worked there by reducing their record sales by 50% annually on 1 specific day? I miss those days.
@@E.C.2 I don’t recall such a day and I worked there from 83-87 in the JCRS shopping center just down from Casa Bonitas on West Colfax! 😁
@@colleentinker5868 I think that specific day started after 1988.
Good grief, that was fantastic! When is part 3 coming out? ;)
Another great video.
Excellent show
These were amazing! Thank you so much
This is wonderful!!! I could listen to Eliza talk on this topic all day! Can you please post the link to the other interviews mentioned that you have done on the topic of music.
I am also a convert from protestantism, a life long music lover, (all types but a great lover of early music) and once I discovered Gregorian chant I can barely listen to anything else. In fact I find myself very intolerant of some polyphonic Mass settings as I feel they can "overwhelm" the Mass. I recently heard a Mass with Vierne's Messe Solennelle. I really disliked it! Would be interested in Eliza's thoughts on this composer.
Thank you! Please have her back again!
What is Eliza’s RUclips channel?
Very interested in the potential for her to create music theory and introductory piano videos!
Thank you! This is my channel but currently I have nothing but playlists for the musical cleanse on it. I’ll work towards educational videos!
@@Old.School.Music.Studio Thanks Eliza!
Can you indicate this is Part 2 in the title? Thank youuuu
So many requests
Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath is considered the basis of all heavy metal and the riff is a tritone.
54:44 Same with Judas Priest's Rob Halford, extremely high pitched screams.
I grew up on metal music and I've put it away but still settled on synth pop, Tears for Fears, Thompson Twins etc. I'll try the cleanse.
I also grew up from a young age into metal music, I've done the cleanse and the only thing that really stuck was this specific genre of power metal. That is what genre I grew up on, it is different to other metal as it often times is obsessed with baroque, classical, Latin, even Christian or even Catholic themes, obsession with recreating Pachelbel, good vs evil at the very least is a huge topic, it is Tolkien esque in some ways as a modern art, it takes a TON of discernment and it is passionate, particular in the drum and vocal department but after the cleanse I was still able to digest it, I've never found a modern music that felt as canon as that. I still prefer sacred music to it, but I can digest it in some instances. I still haven't heard a definitive judgement of it or why God has it existing.
@@dukeofthedance8062 I agree, metal is also what brought me back to the Church and furthermore to traditional Catholicism. I'm just looking for opinions of power metal in relation to Catholicism, that is all as it is a standout among rock music for the traits I mentioned above.
I'm well aware of black sabbath, I would go further and say Candlemass (interesting band name) also has interesting Christian lyrics, and much better than black sabbath, Veni Domine is another band in that vein with Christian lyrics; but undoubtedly I've found many deceitful metal bands in my time, I might enjoy power metal which absolutely has lyrics even praising God in Latin over heavy guitars and drums, but I've listened to about everything and it must be met with heavy, heavy discernment and certainly genres like black metal are purely evil and will draw people away from Satan just based on their hopeless imagery as it doesn't even try for subtlety that is clearly evil and you can judge it easily, but most other genres are far more deceitful.
I read the bible each day in the liturgy or divine office and at mass, other times. These youtubers are actually quite astute on this matter actually.
Sacred music above all is my go-to. Bruckner is very exciting, yet reverend like power metal, in fact when she mentioned that era in the vid I was waiting for his name to be dropped. Requiems especially get to me: Josef Rheinberger (Similar to Bruckner) Requiem in B♭ Minor or Gabriel Fauré (very modern) Requiem are solid ones and if you can manage to chant along you can pray for the poor souls in Purgatory.
🙏
I wonder how Eliza feels about listening to soundtrack music? I realize it's more akin to romanticism, as it's supposed to help evoke a specific emotion to go with the film, but there are some very beautiful pieces, and some that really help me focus.
I'd also like to hear more her thoughts on folk music. American folk music is often Protestant-influenced, so... is it only Celtic that she recommends?
this is really funny
Funny?
What are your sources that Beethoven hated God?
I was told or read Beethoven converted on his deathbed but have no idea? It's been years since I looked into him.
I’ll try to find the direct quote I found when I did a presentation on him (before I converted to Catholicism) and I actually praised his masonry, overly passionate revolutionary spirit, and humanism because I did not have the light of faith. He wrote once in a letter “I have often cursed my creator and my existence”
@@Old.School.Music.Studio I believe you,it must've been another Composer. My memory is has become terrible.
I used to listen to all kinds of filth music but I always noticed that the lyrics always referred to something satanic. Eminem always had lyrics talking about how he sold his soul to the devil. If you pay attention these songs and movies are always telling us something.
She is a great guest,have her back on. 76-81 Punk Rock was fun,crowds would pogo,sci fi sun glasses,etc 82-88 Hardcore took over,crowds slam danced,stage dived,combat boots,and wouldn't ya know it,blasphemy & songs bashing Christianity took over. 1990's hip hop was shoved down our throats,it has been a fast steep decline subsequently.
Almost every tenet of this argument is indefensible when challenged by asking for proof. I have no argument when you're talking church music, however any attempt to link the downfall of civilization to popular music is laughable, and claiming that popular music should be composed to glorify God is ridiculous, unless you only mean it in the vaguest of terms in that everything we do is intended to glorify God. Popular music does not need to be written with a religious intent, it does not need to lift the mind and soul. It's intended as a form of entertainment. This is consistent across all forms of entertainment. You wouldn't hold movies or books to this same level. As long as they are absent any immoral content, they are perfectly acceptable and fulfill their role as a source of entertainment. They do not need to aspire to affect the consumers' life on any level higher than providing a transient pleasurable experience.
The argument that music "appeals to the lower faculties" is also ridiculous. Why is an emotional response to external stimuli somehow immoral? Is it immoral for me to ski a black diamond? Because I get similar sensations from the dopamine and adrenaline rush. There is no good argument for why it's immoral to have a subconscious biological response to any form of entertainment.
Claiming that music has the ability to summon spirits is not only wrong, it's not consistent with Catholic teaching. The disposition and intention of the souls of the participants of those rituals is what would lead to any potential possession, not sound waves. It's purely superstitious and illogical to ascribe supernatural power to vibrating air molecules.
The lack of ability to concisely and accurately describe the immorality in modern music, other than the obvious issues with lyrics, and the constant vauge and unfounded statements discredits the entire premise. This is just another example of trads refusing to believe that the environment we live in changes and we should change with it within the bounds of morality.
Still waiting for someone to make a good supporting argument other than "It has origins in tribalism". That's not an argument. "If the singer is harming their voice by singing, that style is bad for the listener" - Not an argument. "It gives me a bad feeling" - Not an argument. There is quite simply no coherent, logical argument presented in this podcast. "No one would dance impurely to celtic music" LOL.
Regarding the "cleanse". Might actually give it a shot just to see what happens even if it just gives me a new appreciation for the music I listen to now. However, I was raised without ever hearing a single modern song in our house. And I can't say I have ever found classical music to be particularly enjoyable. Some things come down to taste, and you shouldn't try to make it a moral argument.
If the entire premise is so utterly laughable, I wonder why you took the time to write such a long comment. You already have everything figured out it seems, so just laugh and move on.
For anyone of good will, there is plenty of proof I can share. In a single podcast it was entirely impossible to cover everything. This was a basic overview and with thousands of years of music to cover, it was simply not possible to give everything you asked for here in a single episode. If Kevin wants to do another part, I’ll be happy to explain in great detail exactly what some of these rhythmic patterns do to the human body (talking mainly about jazz, rock, pop, hip hop, electronic, etc). For now, I can give the main gist of it: these rhythms rooted in pagan ritual drumming served a specific purpose to create a frenzy of sexual immorality and violence where devils would be summoned to possess people present and dictate messages to them. If you think there is absolutely zero correlation between what happened at the first Rolling Stones concert in California where a massive mob frenzy broke out, people stripped naked, committed sexual sins, danced immorally, and one man jumped on the stage and tried to kill people while others beat each other up in droves, then you have chosen blindness and there is no proof I can possibly present to you that will do anything for you. There are thousands more examples and even scientific studies I can site to show how some of these rhythms send blood flow to sexual organs and arouse anger, but again this must be looked at with good will in the heart, which your comment indicates you don’t have. Take care
Can you give an example of a song that isn’t immoral that you would recommend? You made so many Straw-man arguments that it’s impossible to answer all of them, Eliza did not make the argument that every single song needs to mention God, just that it needs to be uplifting but the fact that you feel the need to say that in a comment tells me a lot about you. If you knew anything about Eliza, you know she applies the same standard to literally every form of media (Books and movies) and I believe we all should as well it’s never a good practice to assume without seeking clarity on someone not applying the same standards across the board. I don’t think media only exists for entertainment and if you believe its only purpose is to entertain then I would ask you to reconsider, many souls are being lost due to entertainment.
@crusaderfilmworks if you believe that entertainment must contain a religious component or is required to assist in your spiritual life, you're simply incorrect. There are many actions that are morally neutral that are perfectly valid forms of entertainment, such as sports, board games, etc. Books, movies, shows, and music are no different. My original comment has no intention of personally attacking Eliza or Kevin, I do not know them personally and have made no assumptions about their character. My statement is based solely off of what was stated in this podcast, such as "I believe music cannot be neutral, it either harms or improves your spiritual life" (not a direct quote, just from memory". Statements such as this directly imply that music has to be written with an moral objective higher than just avoiding immorality, which is not the case. Other evidence of this position is that in the beginning of the podcast, it was stated that Gregorian Chant is the framework for all music, religious and secular, and deviating from that is objectionable. Another statement that is simply indefensible
This is puritanism
Jazz has always been the single most overtly horrible and unpleasant music genre to me
I like Wagner :(
Listen to Bruckner Motets, very grandiose and exciting but Sacred. Ecce sacerdos magnus is a good one, an offertory I think for a Bishop's mass.