If you found you're way here after having trouble waking up your 20 cell scooter packs here's my experience June 2022: Charging directly to the thin wires with no other steps only worked on one of my 5 packs purchased recently, Red light blinks 5-8 times then stops, charger stays green. I'm not sure if this may be because they have been sitting for some time at this point or other factors I don't understand, but if you end up in a similar situation I have seen some success with hitting the reset and charging threw the discharge port (Thicker cables) as referenced in this video. If you're looking for more details on that jehugarcia has an older video that gives very specific instructions (Search for: How to Wake up Best Scooter Batteries of 2021)
For me on all of my scooter packs I had to by pass the discharge port as it would shut off after 1 minute regardless of load. What did you do to get your packs to stay on? I was able to wake all of them up no problem simply by charging them but can't get them to keep outputting voltage. THe blinking light does its thing but after a minute it cuts voltage. So by pass the BMS for output but charge via the BMS/discharge port basically.
I purchased five of these batteries. I was able to easily get three to work. I unscrewed the cover for the BMS and charged via the discharge connector. When you unscrew the covers it is easy to swap the good BMS boards around to see if the BMS is the issue with non working battery packs. . I will try and work on the two that are not working. My DC power supply was able to charge them to 42 volts. What I really want to do is use the Ninebot controller and the display to see if the BMS will balance the batteries in each pack. If it does, it should be easy to move the controller from one battery pack to the other. I also want to check out what people are calling the bottom BMS in these packs to see if that could be the issue with the two non working battery packs. If I can,t get them to work I could always scavenge the good cells.
Ha! I have SO many of these ES4 packs. I’m embarrassed to say how many! Internal and external. Yeah, electrically both are the same but the internal are MUCH easier to extract. Ninebot started potting external pack’s after some time. All have 2500 mAh EVE cells. I can’t remember their c rating but they are relatively high discharge and can take some abuse. I abused the hell out of them on a scooter back when I thought a ES4 was the best thing ever. Lol! I pushed way beyond what the scooters stock amp draw. I was very surprised. Never once had a bad cell.
What does charging look like when these are connected in parallel for a power wall. Do the small wires have to be used at this stage. I wanna throw 28 of these on a Megalo Dongle.
nice, am so glad you are putting attention to ebikes! cargo bikes are the bike equivalent of your electric transporter tho… please do an electric cargo trike!
What would you do if your internal battery back has an out of balance cell pack? Cell 5 lists 4.129v, 1-4 is about 3.645, and 6-10 is 3.536. BMS won’t balance cells for me
I need a 36v 10ah battery for my e scooter the old battery is the lipo type and has gotten damaged, pls is there anyway to replace it with any type that I can get from you ?? The size is 730×111×45mm that fit ,looking forward to your response
I noted around 2.56 as you plugged the charger into the battery pack, the light on the charger was flashing red and green. I always thought it was constant red while charging? Do you know why it flashes between red/green?
So can use an xt60 connector on the end of a charging block like u done here to charge my battery block after taking it out of scooter cause original charge port damaged
Have I missed the video on how to charge bulk 36v scooter batteries. I thought there was to be a video on how to charge them all using multiple scooter chargers
Good morning, I love your informative videos! Hey, is the xiaomi m365 electric scooter battery the same as the ninebot battery in this video? I'm trying to use it as an external battery for my electric scooter and I was wondering if I need to hook up the 4 small wires? Thanks.
@@jehugarcia I have no doubt that your methods were successful. I am just surprised that you thought to drill a hole in a battery case before charging the battery via the charge port.
I purchased two of the external scooter batteries and a charger from you to use in parallel for an ebike. When I plug the charger into the dedicated charging port on the front of the battery I get the blinking light that you see in this video at 2:50. Basically it charges for like half of a second and then stops charging for a couple of seconds, then repeats. The batteries are at 35.5v so it is not that they are too drained. Has anyone been able to get the external scooter batteries to charge from the charge port? I can charge it from the discharge port using an xt30, but I am concerned that this is bypassing the bms and the cells may end up out of balance.
When the charger's light flashes red, the voltage goes up at the discharge port, and when it goes green the voltage floats down again. This form of intermittent charging will eventually charge the battery but like you said, can the bms balance the cell groups? I think its possible if the controller is not too busy wondering why the charger keeps switching on and off. If you had an ES scooter you could use the app to see the internal voltages, but otherwise I think the only way to tell is to open the battery and check the cell groups for balance directly. There is a video on you tube showing how to open the external battery. There are two screws at the top and bottom, and a bunch of snaps on the sides that need to be pried open. I have a controller like the one shown in the video, and found that to get a solid red light on my charger I also had to connect the internal battery to the controller with its 4pin cable before the charger will give a solid red charging light. The internal battery's XT30 discharge cable was optional. On the external battery there is a legend that labels the 6 exposed pins. Two are Labeled Rx and Tx. These are for communicating between the bms and the controller. The controller is able to identify the difference between an internal and external battery. There is a guy on RUclips by the name of BananaScience who knows a lot about this. He found that he could hook up an internal battery to the external com port, and see the cell group voltages on his scooter app. But the scooter would not run with the internal battery hooked to the external port. In order to use an internal battery 'externally' he had to wire them together in parallel by creating a Y cable. My hunch is that the controller needs to be able to enable or disable each bms to ' avoid paralleling them until their voltages are within some tolerance. I don't feel comfortable guessing beyond this simple idea. I would slow charge through the charge port in blinking mode in order to keep the bms in control. Then open up the case and check the cell groups for balance. Personally I would solder two 5 pin RC balance cables with connectors to the cell groups and pass them through holes in the case so I could easily check the balance any time. Then I would bulk charge through the xt30 discharge port to avoid the 'slow blinking light' situation. Perhaps someone could decode the communication between the controller and battery and use an Arduino to be able to spoof the bms into thinking they are good to go. This was done for one of the other large scooter batteries that JAG35 sells. Until then, we will have to deal with these issues.
@@eideticgoone7035 fantastic info. Thank you so much. Yeah, I was wondering the same thing about the Arduino and the bigger scooter battery. Maybe something similar would be needed here.
@@SherwoodWorksInc Good Luck. Your comment seemed insightful, so I thought you would deserve a deeper reply. It took a while to piece together the clues. By the way, I've had good luck using two M365 scooter batteries wired in parallel on a 36v 500watt geared motor pulling as much as 800 watts. I first brought them to the same voltage then connected them in parallel. I leave them connected together when charging. I plug the charger into one pack's charge port and the other is charged via the discharge port through my Y discharge cable. Like these ninebot batteries there is a bms led that blinks blue then changes to red when charging. When plugged into the charge port on one charger, it changes from blue to red. A few seconds later the other pack starts blinking red even though it is not connected except through the Xt30 parallel discharge cable. If the Ninebot external bms works in the same way, then they might just be able to balance even though you are charging through the discharge port. No way to tell without trying. I haven't yet punctured their shrink wrap on my M365 batteries to measure the state of balance. I would like to, but I also like them sealed. I think paralleling two or three scooter batteries makes a cheap and good ebike battery.
@@Wooble57 Tested on the workbench with an Amp-hour tester. When current is same or more than 5A, it triggers OCP. I refurbish these packs and the way to test them is to discharge them at 4.5A.
@@9013368 wow, pretty lame packs then, at least for ebike duty or anything else high drain. Guessing from the AH rating it's 2p, so that's only 2.5 amps a cell. Pretty weak.
@@Wooble57 I have also seen this. I bought two for a parallel pack for a 36v 450W ebike. I thought since they were advertised at 7.5 amps it would be fine for 12.5 amps of draw in parallel. I tried it out and after only 5 seconds of full throttle the bms would shut off current and start blinking red. It resets after about 30 seconds. I found that I could hold about 2/3 throttle and it could keep running but makes it basically useless. I may have to add a third one to see if it will make it useable.
Hey jehu- I just bought some rz3612 are you familiar with them? They are all sitting at about 15v. I was able to charge one of them to about 21v thru the main output wire pair and then it just stopped. There is a small set of red and black wires as well but they only show like 1v(ish) so I don’t think it’s a charging port but… I really don’t know. For all I know these BMS’s are smart and only let power thru one way on the input and output. Any help would be great
I have bought 3 used batteries ninebot segway 10inr19/66-9 voi nee 1009-w battery 36v, 27 a that I intended to use instead of the airboard battery for my homemade electric bike. The connection from the airboard battery must be adapted to the connection and charged with the airboard charger. But need some help. You describe things so clearly and I thought if anyone can help me then it's you with your knowledge Thanks in advance
JEHU, looks like the charger is not charging correctly using the small wires. My guess the bms needs activation ro work that way. At least it is an easy way to wake up the bms.
It may also be that the cells are very low so the BMS is bump charging them much like what you would do on a bench powersupply by limiting the current to a low level to wake low cells up so that the risk of having a pack thermally runaway is reduced. Either way it looks like it is taking a small charge and the true test would be to leave it for a few hours in a fireproof well ventelated area and see if the pack begins taking a charge normally after a short time.
Arent the smaller cables always the charge cables and the big ones are for discharge? So wouldn't trying to charge it through the small wires be someone's first effort before they'd ever think to look for a reset button they'd have to drill for...
Some premade batteries charge and discharge through the main connector and the smaller cables if any are sometimes just used for SOC readout to estimate the range left, with these batteries that is not the case
I just purchased a bunch of these "untested" packs, When I try this, the red LED flashes six times with the last flash being a bit longer, then nothing. They don't charge this way, so I'm going to assume that either there is a problem with cells or the boards themselves, unless anybody has additional information.
I have the same issue, and one of the pack do not even has red LED flashes even I current with the small red and black wire, any ideas? I bought 5 packs and only 1 work
I ended up going to the battery pack directly and using a CC/CV power supply, charged them up with low current (50 mA) to about 30 v, then charged them with higher current until they were full.
Absolutely.. I've seen a couple of videos of guys using these for golf carts. As long as you have the correct output voltage and you have enough sales. Tesla the same batteries are internal on these. Not necessarily the same brand but the same size lithium ion cell.
ive seen another u tube site charge through black xt60 then jumpstart the litttke wires with 2 paperclips and jump start to wake it up much easier no wires to or nothing cuttting, only saying !
@@jehugarcia really how ?i bought 2 36 volt battery packs which are in good conditions and the 72 volt wheel im trying to power is controlled by a 1000watt-1500w controller, switch and throttle are configured correctly controller is not shortened,and throttle and 'on switch' are just fine aswell but the wheel still won't move im getting working readings on the vehicles display but ,it continues to relay a low battery emblem,i have them in series correctly,and charged the wheels hall and phase wire are working just fine and have been tested but the wheel still wont move,it is a 10 inch 1500watt wheel all bearings and magnets are in great shape and wheel rolls smoothly while disconnected and smoothly when power is on but i still get no movement for the wheel,i tried this test first because i didnt want to just go and spend heavily on a 72 volt battery pack just yet so this test was a better way for me to go,what is an issue youd think?✌
I am learning so much from your channel. Thank you!
As always... timing is good. Thanks!
If you found you're way here after having trouble waking up your 20 cell scooter packs here's my experience June 2022:
Charging directly to the thin wires with no other steps only worked on one of my 5 packs purchased recently, Red light blinks 5-8 times then stops, charger stays green.
I'm not sure if this may be because they have been sitting for some time at this point or other factors I don't understand, but if you end up in a similar situation I have seen some success with hitting the reset and charging threw the discharge port (Thicker cables) as referenced in this video. If you're looking for more details on that jehugarcia has an older video that gives very specific instructions (Search for: How to Wake up Best Scooter Batteries of 2021)
For me on all of my scooter packs I had to by pass the discharge port as it would shut off after 1 minute regardless of load.
What did you do to get your packs to stay on? I was able to wake all of them up no problem simply by charging them but can't get them to keep outputting voltage. THe blinking light does its thing but after a minute it cuts voltage. So by pass the BMS for output but charge via the BMS/discharge port basically.
I purchased five of these batteries. I was able to easily get three to work. I unscrewed the cover for the BMS and charged via the discharge connector. When you unscrew the covers it is easy to swap the good BMS boards around to see if the BMS is the issue with non working battery packs. . I will try and work on the two that are not working. My DC power supply was able to charge them to 42 volts. What I really want to do is use the Ninebot controller and the display to see if the BMS will balance the batteries in each pack. If it does, it should be easy to move the controller from one battery pack to the other. I also want to check out what people are calling the bottom BMS in these packs to see if that could be the issue with the two non working battery packs. If I can,t get them to work I could always scavenge the good cells.
Ha! I have SO many of these ES4 packs. I’m embarrassed to say how many!
Internal and external.
Yeah, electrically both are the same but the internal are MUCH easier to extract. Ninebot started potting external pack’s after some time.
All have 2500 mAh EVE cells. I can’t remember their c rating but they are relatively high discharge and can take some abuse. I abused the hell out of them on a scooter back when I thought a ES4 was the best thing ever. Lol! I pushed way beyond what the scooters stock amp draw. I was very surprised. Never once had a bad cell.
What does charging look like when these are connected in parallel for a power wall. Do the small wires have to be used at this stage. I wanna throw 28 of these on a Megalo Dongle.
nice, am so glad you are putting attention to ebikes! cargo bikes are the bike equivalent of your electric transporter tho… please do an electric cargo trike!
yo, excellent effort Jehu
Jehu Garcia? More like Jehu Chargia
Do you have to cut the smaller wires to connect charger to it or can you use the other port to wake it up?
See what I’m saying 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽thanks for the info
What would you do if your internal battery back has an out of balance cell pack? Cell 5 lists 4.129v, 1-4 is about 3.645, and 6-10 is 3.536. BMS won’t balance cells for me
I need a 36v 10ah battery for my e scooter
the old battery is the lipo type and has gotten damaged, pls is there anyway to replace it with any type that I can get from you ??
The size is 730×111×45mm that fit ,looking forward to your response
I noted around 2.56 as you plugged the charger into the battery pack, the light on the charger was flashing red and green. I always thought it was constant red while charging? Do you know why it flashes between red/green?
Excellent info..great work my friend 👏
So can use an xt60 connector on the end of a charging block like u done here to charge my battery block after taking it out of scooter cause original charge port damaged
Have I missed the video on how to charge bulk 36v scooter batteries. I thought there was to be a video on how to charge them all using multiple scooter chargers
Good morning, I love your informative videos! Hey, is the xiaomi m365 electric scooter battery the same as the ninebot battery in this video? I'm trying to use it as an external battery for my electric scooter and I was wondering if I need to hook up the 4 small wires? Thanks.
Hi, great video man! Just a question, how many volts do you use in the servising connector? Realy 36, or just 12?
Lol I can’t believe you tried drilling the case first
Tried? We successfully woke an bunch of these packs that way
@@jehugarcia I have no doubt that your methods were successful. I am just surprised that you thought to drill a hole in a battery case before charging the battery via the charge port.
The jump scooters woke up through the xt connector. Will these pack not do the same?
These wake up by charging and pressing the reset button or by charging via the small connectors
I purchased two of the external scooter batteries and a charger from you to use in parallel for an ebike.
When I plug the charger into the dedicated charging port on the front of the battery I get the blinking light that you see in this video at 2:50. Basically it charges for like half of a second and then stops charging for a couple of seconds, then repeats.
The batteries are at 35.5v so it is not that they are too drained.
Has anyone been able to get the external scooter batteries to charge from the charge port?
I can charge it from the discharge port using an xt30, but I am concerned that this is bypassing the bms and the cells may end up out of balance.
When the charger's light flashes red, the voltage goes up at the discharge port, and when it goes green the voltage floats down again. This form of intermittent charging will eventually charge the battery but like you said, can the bms balance the cell groups? I think its possible if the controller is not too busy wondering why the charger keeps switching on and off.
If you had an ES scooter you could use the app to see the internal voltages, but otherwise I think the only way to tell is to open the battery and check the cell groups for balance directly. There is a video on you tube showing how to open the external battery. There are two screws at the top and bottom, and a bunch of snaps on the sides that need to be pried open.
I have a controller like the one shown in the video, and found that to get a solid red light on my charger I also had to connect the internal battery to the controller with its 4pin cable before the charger will give a solid red charging light. The internal battery's XT30 discharge cable was optional.
On the external battery there is a legend that labels the 6 exposed pins.
Two are Labeled Rx and Tx. These are for communicating between the bms and the controller. The controller is able to identify the difference between an internal and external battery. There is a guy on RUclips by the name of BananaScience who knows a lot about this. He found that he could hook up an internal battery to the external com port, and see the cell group voltages on his scooter app. But the scooter would not run with the internal battery hooked to the external port. In order to use an internal battery 'externally' he had to wire them together in parallel by creating a Y cable.
My hunch is that the controller needs to be able to enable or disable each bms to ' avoid paralleling them until their voltages are within some tolerance. I don't feel comfortable guessing beyond this simple idea.
I would slow charge through the charge port in blinking mode in order to keep the bms in control. Then open up the case and check the cell groups for balance. Personally I would solder two 5 pin RC balance cables with connectors to the cell groups and pass them through holes in the case so I could easily check the balance any time. Then I would bulk charge through the xt30 discharge port to avoid the 'slow blinking light' situation.
Perhaps someone could decode the communication between the controller and battery and use an Arduino to be able to spoof the bms into thinking they are good to go.
This was done for one of the other large scooter batteries that JAG35 sells.
Until then, we will have to deal with these issues.
@@eideticgoone7035 fantastic info. Thank you so much. Yeah, I was wondering the same thing about the Arduino and the bigger scooter battery. Maybe something similar would be needed here.
@@SherwoodWorksInc Good Luck. Your comment seemed insightful, so I thought you would deserve a deeper reply. It took a while to piece together the clues. By the way, I've had good luck using two M365 scooter batteries wired in parallel on a 36v 500watt geared motor pulling as much as 800 watts. I first brought them to the same voltage then connected them in parallel. I leave them connected together when charging. I plug the charger into one pack's charge port and the other is charged via the discharge port through my Y discharge cable. Like these ninebot batteries there is a bms led that blinks blue then changes to red when charging. When plugged into the charge port on one charger, it changes from blue to red. A few seconds later the other pack starts blinking red even though it is not connected except through the Xt30 parallel discharge cable. If the Ninebot external bms works in the same way, then they might just be able to balance even though you are charging through the discharge port.
No way to tell without trying.
I haven't yet punctured their shrink wrap on my M365 batteries to measure the state of balance. I would like to, but I also like them sealed. I think paralleling two or three scooter batteries makes a cheap and good ebike battery.
Jehu, these batteries have a big disadvantage. The BMS has an Over Current Protection. When discharging they cannot go over 5A. That's the limit.
you sure? it seems odd that a scooter battery would be limited to 5a, that's only 180w the motor could pull.
@@Wooble57 Tested on the workbench with an Amp-hour tester. When current is same or more than 5A, it triggers OCP. I refurbish these packs and the way to test them is to discharge them at 4.5A.
@@9013368 wow, pretty lame packs then, at least for ebike duty or anything else high drain. Guessing from the AH rating it's 2p, so that's only 2.5 amps a cell. Pretty weak.
@@Wooble57 I have also seen this. I bought two for a parallel pack for a 36v 450W ebike. I thought since they were advertised at 7.5 amps it would be fine for 12.5 amps of draw in parallel. I tried it out and after only 5 seconds of full throttle the bms would shut off current and start blinking red. It resets after about 30 seconds. I found that I could hold about 2/3 throttle and it could keep running but makes it basically useless. I may have to add a third one to see if it will make it useable.
The website has an edited listing now. The graphic and details say 5.2A, the page title still says 7.5 A though.
Is there a link to these round black batteries on the web site? I can't find them.
Hey jehu- I just bought some rz3612 are you familiar with them? They are all sitting at about 15v. I was able to charge one of them to about 21v thru the main output wire pair and then it just stopped. There is a small set of red and black wires as well but they only show like 1v(ish) so I don’t think it’s a charging port but… I really don’t know. For all I know these BMS’s are smart and only let power thru one way on the input and output. Any help would be great
I have bought 3 used batteries ninebot segway 10inr19/66-9 voi nee 1009-w battery 36v, 27 a that I intended to use instead of the airboard battery for my homemade electric bike. The connection from the airboard battery must be adapted to the connection and charged with the airboard charger. But need some help. You describe things so clearly and I thought if anyone can help me then it's you with your knowledge Thanks in advance
Does the blue charge light ever shut off when not in use?
I have one and it does not. The light isn’t very bright, though.
kan buy this ?
JEHU, looks like the charger is not charging correctly using the small wires. My guess the bms needs activation ro work that way. At least it is an easy way to wake up the bms.
It may also be that the cells are very low so the BMS is bump charging them much like what you would do on a bench powersupply by limiting the current to a low level to wake low cells up so that the risk of having a pack thermally runaway is reduced. Either way it looks like it is taking a small charge and the true test would be to leave it for a few hours in a fireproof well ventelated area and see if the pack begins taking a charge normally after a short time.
Also, I tried using the discussion board for asking questions but there are no participants. Can you recommnend a 36v to 110/120 inverter? there
@mspider12 thank you, I will look into it
What would the yellow and white cables be for?
here is an extra comment just because I can!
Nice explanation Sir
dude...this is good video ;)
When charging these packs with a variable DC charger at what amperage and volt should the output be setup to?
When I try charging them they’ll blink red four times and stay off…
@@PopcornPapiii me too,have you been able to charge all the way?
Hello i got 2 42v xiaomi 3m65 pro batteries in series can i connect both red and black wires together for the charging plug and charge them together?
I would think you should only use and charge 2 packs in parallel.
I found one on the street so thought I'd try and Fix it for another bike or something or even to learn about them
Do u still have these for sale ?
Tens of thousands
Arent the smaller cables always the charge cables and the big ones are for discharge? So wouldn't trying to charge it through the small wires be someone's first effort before they'd ever think to look for a reset button they'd have to drill for...
Some premade batteries charge and discharge through the main connector and the smaller cables if any are sometimes just used for SOC readout to estimate the range left, with these batteries that is not the case
I just purchased a bunch of these "untested" packs, When I try this, the red LED flashes six times with the last flash being a bit longer, then nothing. They don't charge this way, so I'm going to assume that either there is a problem with cells or the boards themselves, unless anybody has additional information.
I've had the same thing happen as well with about half the untested packs i purchased.
@@lu6an0 hi, did you find a solution? Thanks
I have the same issue, and one of the pack do not even has red LED flashes even I current with the small red and black wire, any ideas? I bought 5 packs and only 1 work
I ended up going to the battery pack directly and using a CC/CV power supply, charged them up with low current (50 mA) to about 30 v, then charged them with higher current until they were full.
@@magic.marmot Do you connect the low current supply to the small wire or the normal charge wire?
Nice
wish i can buy it my country!
Could these be used, in a large quantity to power an electric car?
Absolutely.. I've seen a couple of videos of guys using these for golf carts. As long as you have the correct output voltage and you have enough sales. Tesla the same batteries are internal on these. Not necessarily the same brand but the same size lithium ion cell.
ive seen another u tube site charge through black xt60 then jumpstart the litttke wires with 2 paperclips and jump start to wake it up much easier no wires to or nothing cuttting,
only saying !
WoW that's a shit load of batteries 0:21
Dood you have to make a 72 volt⚡🤪
Doh
Do these cells are able to be used for an electric car on a 72v configuration ?
Yes
@@jehugarcia anything i need to check in order to make sure they are able to power the electric engine?
@@jehugarcia no shipping available to japan :(
@@jehugarcia really how ?i bought 2 36 volt battery packs which are in good conditions and the 72 volt wheel im trying to power is controlled by a 1000watt-1500w controller, switch and throttle are configured correctly controller is not shortened,and throttle and 'on switch' are just fine aswell but the wheel still won't move im getting working readings on the vehicles display but ,it continues to relay a low battery emblem,i have them in series correctly,and charged the wheels hall and phase wire are working just fine and have been tested but the wheel still wont move,it is a 10 inch 1500watt wheel all bearings and magnets are in great shape and wheel rolls smoothly while disconnected and smoothly when power is on but i still get no movement for the wheel,i tried this test first because i didnt want to just go and spend heavily on a 72 volt battery pack just yet so this test was a better way for me to go,what is an issue youd think?✌