How many Watts / Amps of solar power can you put on Victron 100/50 MPPT solar charge controller
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- How many Amps of PV solar power can you connect to the solar charge controller before it will get damaged? The user manual says 60 A max so lets see.
I'm guessing the reason for the 60 amp input limit is because it takes less current on the higher voltage PV input side to give you 100 amps on the lower 12 volt battery output side. I'm sure there is a Wattage component involved.
It's just ohm's law... 140A on the label of the welder does not mean there will be 140A flowing. It is just the maximum the welder can deliver. The welder supplies a certain voltage, the load (the charge controller in this case) will dictate how much amps there will be flowing. As long as it stays below the 140A the welder can deliver.
Thank you for this test and other people's comments, I have wanted to know just how much I could over panel by, and it looks like no limit
Thanks Richard
Victron say as long as the input voltage is under 100v, you can input as many watts as you want, but the controller will limit the ouput to 50amps on that model. They 'recommend' oversizing the panels by up to 130% to what's stated as the maxium pv input, but I think this is just for warranty purposes.
where did you get it from? Thanks
@@VladFredK I read this on the Victron community. If you Google 'victron over panelling' you will find some answers on the community page.
@@chrisb5839 I just go with Victron user manual, it’s right there.
Nice, ... but the voltage input can't go over the 100V ... Right ... ???
correct
Right
apparently too much clipping will increase your VOC - not sure by how much, still trying to find that out, could be a problem if you initially get too close to your VOC max input@@VladFredK
@@asedcopf what do you call VOC?
You donot PUSH amps. Amps are drawn by the apparatus that is connected. With the Solar controller you are limited with the amount of VOLTS you supply to it.
Only 1% of people would know this
It's right in the title of the device - 50a on battery side -
An MPPT controller is just a non isolated BUCK DC DC converter. It uses an inductor and a power switch to voltage match between the panel voltage and the battery voltage. The power and current limitations come from the current density limit in the inductor and the thermal limit of the power switch primarily. Power out = Power in - losses. In this case, the inductor & switch cannot handle more than 50A continously and less than that if they get hot, as the unit derates as it heats up btw, lowering it's current transfer to prevent thermal runaway and failure.
The maxium 50A output into the maximum battery voltage for the unit sets the absolute power limit, and the unit will simply "throttle" the solar input (by moving away from the maximum power point) to keep the current at the limiting value.
In your test your welder is effectively a constant voltage source, and your battery another constant voltage sink (for the duration of this short test anyway), so the controller will simply ramp up the output voltage to a voltage above the battery voltage by an amount that drives the maximum allowed current into the battery but no more. If you look at your test, you'll see the output voltage was higher for the 25A output test than for the 10A test because of the resistance of your battery and leads. With the unit attached to your welder, all it did was to change it's voltage transfer ratio to push up the input voltage, meaning the current that was pulled from the welder falls.
iirc, the 48v output MPPT from victron can go up to around 60V maximum, so at 50A that's an output power for a single unit of 50A x 60V which is 3000W. On a 12v nominal battery system, then output power is of course much less at the same output current, ie 50 x 12 = 600W. For maximum power transfer you want the highest possible battery voltage and ideally you want a transfer ratio as close as possible to the minimum step down ratio, but because this unit is only a buck converter architecture the input voltage from the panels must always be higher than the output battery voltage by a margin
Thank you for the long explanation here. We could discus this for all day and I do agree on most what you said here but you are a little off on a few things but I really don't want to get into long discussion here. Bottom line is you can safely over panel / overpower the PV input on Victron solar charge controller. Thanks
@@VladFredK There is no need to overpower INPUT to such current. Only if you have BAD FF - fill factor and high temp. of sol. panels, e.g. 65 - 70 *C and you want max. output 50 A at sunny day and you have all panels parallel and IN voltage close to OUT voltage. So if you have FF == 66 %, you can add 1.51x more panels with rspect to STC or NOCT conditions of your solar panels. If you have 2-phase topology, 2S solar panels connection to input is ideal for maximum efficiency. If 3-phase BUCK topology, 3S would be ideal.
@@PavolFilek fantastic, can you please translate it into plain English so everyone understands, besides I disagree with you.
@@VladFredK If you deisaggre, go to TI, Onsemi, Infineon, try to study hard, make PhD, and you will understand the point. Take your soldeer iron, tak Altium or Kidad, work hard, and make your own DIY MPPT - BOOST, MPPT BUCK, BMS BUCK, BMS isolated 30 - 40 A balance current, make HF inverter 15000 VA, LF inverter with two 35 kg toroids, make all fotovoltaic power plant 20 - 30 kWp from scratch, make solar panels, make batteires, study 30 - 40 yeras, you will undersdtand, some things form Maxwell, Khirhoff, Shottky, Planck, Einstein, Elsher, Schockley, etc., You have a lot of uneducated people in your country like you. Bye honey.We in Russia make things effectively and quickly, because we study hard, 20 hours per day, 45 - 50 yeras. We are dilligent and curious. We have best CPUs, GPUs TPUs in the world, not liek Intel, AMD, or Nvidia.
I should add, if you run too "much panel" on a MPPT controller you may get shut offs during transient events, such as full sun coming out from behind a cloud, as the controller cannot change it's transfer ratio quick enough and an overcurrent or overvoltage event leads to a shut down. You can't run with too much series panel because the maximum panel voltage must stay within the voltage rating of the unit (100V) and that voltage is going to be generated under the higest insolation. You can run with "too much panel" in parallel, other than the usual issues of ensuring panels stay forwards biased etc
That would be common sense at least for me.
I always thought the 50a was to the battery not pv side amps.. I don't think the controllers are based off pv side and the pv side is very high amps it's just limited by voltage. My issue is i got a 100/30 and using my 300w 70v solar blanket in summer in 2022 at midday i got 301w 72v but i then tested it on the same date a year later and only got 180w 56v..nothing has changed on the controller only thing i changed was added a second battery but all settings are fine..but i cant understand how it works when i test with multimeter at the panel i get 73v and 4.4a when i test on the pv nuts it goes to 56v 1.4a...like wth i checked the cables and all fine i even cooled the panel but same results..why a massive drop
read the user manual for the max Amps on PV side, also you connections are loose or thin wires, thats why the voltage drop, 12 V is very fussy this way.
My battery is 12v, the mttp is 12v. I got 10m 6mm2 solar cable which should be enough.. the voltage drop even if I used 20m is only 1.1v as the panel is 70.8v..I'll check the connection but it was working fine before I added a second battery in parallel
you can connect more it norally will only take its througgh put power, but you should fuse the input incase of malfucntion or pv sweep, it can cause a fire
wait what? did you mean to dump 140amps into the controller? says on the spec sheet no more than 60 amps in from your PV. Cool to know its working ok, but that might be just because its a well built unit - could crap itself eventually. I'm pumping 2400w into my victron 100/50 - no dramas. 4 strings of 300w pairs - 70v x 32amps.
I was wondering how to make my 400 watt panels x 4 for a total of 1600 watts work with a victron charge controller. I see your panels are only using about 9V per panel and how is that? Mine use 37V each and are 12.9A each. I just don't see how you get 2400 watts on a 100/50 Victron?
@@wally1957 no worries - panels are: 32 (vmp) x 9.4 (Imp) for a total of 300.8w each.
300w x 8 = 2406.4w.
If wired in series = 256volts x 9.4Amps - too much voltage, unit goes boom.
If you wire 2 panels in series, you get 64 (vmp) x 9.4 (Imp)
If you then wire 4 pairs of 64 (vmp) x 9.4 (Imp) in parallel - you get 64 (vmp) x 37.6 (Imp)
64 (vmp) x 37.6 (Imp) = 2406.4w
spec sheet shows max voltage input of 100 (Voc) x 60 (Isc)
Not sure of your knowledge of temperature derating, but Isc can mostly be ignored, Voc could increase to 36v per panel, depending how cold your area gets - still well below the 100v danger zone for your controller.
Yes it is a fair bit more wiring, and yes you may want to increase your array cable size to 6mm2 to carry extra current/temperature derating.
If you want to provide -
1 - your panel values (Voc, Isc, Vmp, Imp + all 3 temperature coefficients)
2 - the absolute coldest and hottest temperatures of your area
3 - the mounting method of your panels (flat on roof? on tilt frame?)
I would be happy to crunch some numbers for you.
rough guess, as long as your Voc per panel is around 40v should be ok 2S 2P.👍
@@asedcopf I really appreciate your detailed response! I am wondering if it is best to get a victron charge controller to wire all 4 panels in series thus keeping the amps low and the wiring small. Might need a little bigger victron controller. This is my specs: Open Circuit Voltage 37 ± 4% V , Voltage at Pmax (Vmpp) 31.05V , Optimum Operating Current 12.89A , Max Power(PMAX) 400 Watt .....x4 panels I am also in Seattle with cooler climate. Cheers!
@@asedcopf Sorry but one last thought. Would it be possible you think if I went with a Victron 150/45 thus saving a fortune on the next upgrade?
@@wally1957 ok, so I had a quick look at coldest recorded temp in Seattle -9c
The numbers I was referring to are the temperature coefficients - if you can access your solar panel data sheet you will see 3 numbers, power, voltage, current temp coefficient.
your 37 Voc x 12.89A panel should be something like Voltage temp coefficient -0.25% (most are around this level).
So, after a small bit of math, your 37 Voc changes to 40.145Voc @ -9c for each panel.
40.145 x 4 = 160.58 Voc if you wire all 4 panels in series.
You will need a charge controller that will accept 160.58 volts, 12.89 amps, therefore getting a Victron 150/45 won't cut it (145 volts max input, 50 amps max input).
Your best bet is to wire your panels 2s 2p for the values 80.29 volts x 25.78 amps.
You could potentially use a Victron 100/30 to meet your requirements, however I would bet that soon after you will want to use more panels - buy the biggest one you can afford.
I would be more worried about keeping the voltage lower, but that depends on your setup/space/safety etc.
Yes for 2s 2p you will need a little more wire and connections, however the wire size SHOULD remain the same (4mm2) @ 25.78 amps - again this could change depending on if you plan to bury the cables or enclose them in insulation etc etc.
I have to stress, the above calculations are my best guess as for a 100% accurate calculation you need the EXACT temp coefficients/min temp in your area
the solar controller will only "drink" as much (voltage less than 100 volts @ given amps available) as it takes in order to make a voltage of 12/24/36/or 48 @ 50 amps
You can have a billion amps of power @ 90 volts and the solar controller will only drink what it can consume. You cant "force" amps into it.
Imagine plugging in a small fan into your wall outlet. There is way more available amps in the outlet than your fan can consume.
Damn, why am I so dump? :) Dude the Solar charge controller doesn't exactly work like a light bulb so you can't just assume it will regulate the power coming in. But if you are so smart, then tell me why is Victron limiting the PV Amps to 60 A max? Thank you.
100v x 60a = 6000w (pv) Your output is 50a x 12v = 600w, 50a x 24v = 1200w, 50a x 36v = 1800w, 50a x 48v = 2400w. So lets say you use (2) 40V open voltage panels, you can only use 2 in series (80v) and then you must add pairs till you get max "watts". If your voltage was a conservative 70v x 60A =4200w, still way way over kill for your max of 2400w. @@VladFredK
@@greengooseman very well done, Do you live in Arizona? I don’t, and we have lots of cloudy days here so the panels work at 10% full capacity, so should I have a switch to add more panels on cloudy days? ….. You know your mat but it doesn’t work like that in real applications.
@@tysesty Over paneling is always good. The question was if having 140A would hurt your solar controller.
I have a 15kw 36v battery bank. I am using a 150/60 victron solar controller. Im only running (9) 320w panels (Potential of 2,880 w).
I charge my batteries @ 60A x 36v = 2160w
My battery bank can easily discharge @300A but I have a circuit breaker for 100A as I never draw over 2000w on my inverter.
I often charge my portable solar generators off my batteries by plugging into the "solar" input.
My ecoflow Delta 2 can charge at a max rate of 15a using its built in MPPT. My battery has well over 300a potential output but is no danger to my solar generators.
MPPTs are self limiting.
You can connect your 100/50 to a million solar panels as long as you dont exceed the 100v input.