Is the Apache Still the Best Attack Helicopter?
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- Опубликовано: 14 фев 2023
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The AH-645 Apache helicopter has been around for 37 years, but in that time there have been many advances in particular with digital electronic and network integration. So how does the old war horse stack up against Russian and Chinese rivals?
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Written, Researched and Presented by Paul Shillito
Images and footage : US DoD, Lockheed, Bell
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The Apache on its back at 6:50 was not shot down. It rolled over due to brown out conditions during a landing. I'm the one who took that picture in 2003. I documented 6 different Apache accidents during my tour. Only one loss was enemy action. It had an unexploded RPG 7 warhead stuck beside the aft fuel cell and we had it destroyed in place with dropped bombs.
Oh wow
Im the Pilot
@@KennyNGA
You're the pilot?
yes@@stickiedmin6508
Dude... Just wanna say, I hope you are still doing better and better. It's good to see you posting more content, but you have been through so much. Just... Thank you for all you do. It is appreciated.
I second this. You're one of my favorite creators and by far my favorite science/technology creator. I hope you stay in good health and I wish you the best.
@@jlight7346 Hear, hear
What’s been happening?
@@jonnyfranks5879 I believe he has/had cancer, including needing a surgery which removed his prostate.
Yeah definitely one of my favorites. I never get tired of his videos!
I remember when my parents took me to an airshow because I loved Airwolf and got to sit in one as a 10 or 11 yo in 91 or 92 and they showed us the gun under the nose tracked the pilots eye. I thought that was the coolest shit ever.
To be fair when the eye tracking tech was introduced it was proper futuristic stuff.
Great video as always. Apaches look so pleasing to the eye. I cannot explain why but they do.
It's called elegant lethality.
Function has a beauty all its own.
I was actually just thinking about how ugly Apaches are compared to Cobras haha. I know the Apache is generally an all around better aircraft, but the Cobra is the most beautiful attack chopper of all time
Not so easy on the eye 👁 if you’re on the other team on the ground. 🤷♂️😏
death has never looked so good ... tell that to the villagers farmers
While the Cobra shared a tail boom, engine and powertrain... it was a DEDICATED attack aircraft. A modified attack aircraft would be something like the hueys and chinooks modified with various guns and armillary that the backshops added on the fly and later the Army adopted. The Cobra literally has a purpose made fuselage, ESSS (wings to carry stuff), targeting systems, tandem cockpit and weapons. They even redesigned the rotors and moved the tail rotor.
The cobra was pushed ahead by McNamara because he was pushing for more common parts for aircraft and many of his other plans where getting push back.
The Cobra is not a modified huey... it's a dedicated attack helicopter that shares serviceable parts (tail boom and engines and most of the drivetrain) to make it cheaper to design and produce. Putting a Ferrari engine and transmission in your Volkswagen Beatle doesn't make it a modified Ferrari. I was army airframe in the 90's and 2000's.
Also lasted many decades in service.
@@xiaoka It's also still around the latest AH-1s are the AH-1Z Viper and it's transport helicopter brother the UH-1Y Venom. It actually has newer engines more advanced electronics than the current crop of Apaches. As well it also uses a more modern four blade hingeless bearingless rotor compared to the hinged rotor on the AH-64 which makes it a lot more maneuverable.
The USMC rejected the Apache because the Sea Apache Boeing came up with ended up having to delete key features like the chin turret to make it smaller (to operate from the USMCs ships) and resistant to salt spray. In the end it wasn't much more effective than the AH-1s they were already flying just more expensive and didn't share parts with the UH-1. So they decided to go with a modernized AH-1 and UH-1 instead. Originally these were going to just be remanufactured AH-1s and UH-1 airframes but the design changed so much they ended up just making a completely new aircraft.
Great stuff. Interestingly, I learned way back in 1999 that while there WERE AH-64B/C variants developed, neither was ever bought/fielded. The US Army has only ever flown AH-64A/D/E, and that's all that's been sold abroad too.
Also worth noting for the uber-completionist, that the WAH-64 that the UK flew, had a Rolls-Royce turboshaft engine instead of the T700-GE-701. Not sure if you mentioned that.
Love the shirt too!
If I recall correctly; the Rolls Royce engine version has 2200shp and the GE has 1800shp respectively
there was a C variant fielded; it was literally just the D without the rotor mounted radar, so all C models were retroactively named D
9:10 I actually saw that exact AH64 fly over my house some years back and could see it landing on the Carrier from my bedroom window, it flew over Portchester before landing on the new carriers sitting in Portsmouth Dockyard. There were 2 of them together as I recall. Was impressive to see them.
It never was, American equipment in general is garbage. MI 28 is twice the size.
@@mustang1912 holy shit guys looks like we got one of idiots who support Russian arms, interesting take seeing as Russia is currently not so popular with the rest of the world. Also ya bros in Russia got like maybe 1-200 MI 28 while America has like what 1-2000 Apache attack helicopters, maths not hard buddy
@@mustang1912And Russian equipment is better?
Good to see more content, hope you're doing well mate. X
In 02, I did a uni project at GKN Westland (basically counting helicopter blades in storage across the site) and the guy baby sitting us said he was retiring in 6 months so took a group of us right up to 2 of these. God they looked fit for purpose. Never gonna forget that day as he kept banging on about it's capabilities (a longbow variant) hahaha
If Curious Droid posts, I click.
It's that simple.
Instantly
@@ilyabrookwell780 Same here... automatic click and thumbs-up.
life becomes easier when droid uploads that's for sure. I see, I click, I watch. I enjoy.
Mmm
Short answer is... YES!
I flew the A-Model, amongst many other types of helicopters, in and out of the Army (showing my age)! Best job ever!
The new Viper is Superior
@@IndiaMikePapa How many hours do you have in the Viper and the Apache in combat?
I have 41 hours of combat in an apache
Great video as always! Love your content man. Hope you are doing well!!
Paul, thank you for this enlightening update on the status of the Apache helicopter.
Absolutely my favorite military/technology channel.
An absolutely amazing aircraft!
I had a toy one as a kid and “flew” it around the house 😆
Always happy to get one of these videos awesome!
To me it's like the abrams tank. Not necessarily the best in the world at everything when it came out but just a solid workhorse that just got better with upgrades and one of those things new designs could make improvements but probably nothing big enough for a platform change, especially when upgrades can shorten the gap
2:35 Now it hits me! The AH-56 looks like an autogyro A-10! I knew it reminded me of something...
For anyone interested, may I recommend the following books by Ed Macy.
* Apache
* Hellfire
These are stories of a British Apache pilot and make for a fascinating insight into what's required to fly, and fight, one of these awesome machines.
Definitely going to check these out, thank you
Is "Apache" the book that starts by recounting the story of the recovery of Lance Corporal Ford?
For anyone unfamiliar with the story, The Royal Marines had been tasked with attacking Jugroom Fort in Helmand Province, but were driven back by heavier than expected defensive fire. On rallying, they found there was a man missing - Lance Corporal Ford. Aerial reconnaissance imagery showed him lying, close to the walls of the fort. As the marines prepared to remount their amphibious transports in order to go back for him, the crews of two Apache gunships circling overhead to provide cover, suggested another idea.
They landed, two marines attached themselves to the stub wings of each helicopter, and they flew back, again under heavy fire, to try and fetch LC Ford. Sadly, he had already been killed but his comrades still exposed themselves to incredible danger to bring him back and take him home.
The book (if it's the one I'm thinking of) describes it all a lot better than me.
It's not often that a non-fiction book gets the reader so pumped up and excited they want to stand and cheer, but that's how I felt after having read just the first chapter!
I second Daystrom's recommendation: Get those books. You won't be disappointed.
I used to play a game called nuclear strike on the ps1 and have loved this helicopter ever since great video for such a great helicopter.
Although it did carry air to air missiles, on the wing tips such as
2 AIM 9X sidewinder or
4 AIM-92H stingers missiles.
But didn't have much use for it with the testing, so it never happened.
Also the British type the MK1 had the HIDAS countermeasure defence system such a cool defence aid for the pilot to use.
Back in the days I've always wanted a demilitarized AH64 for personal transportation. Polished to full chrome finish at that. Alas I didn't get filthy rich so this didn't come to fruition.
If I win the lottery I’ll buy you one Jan
A worthy go fund me
It's a bit slow for personal transportation there's faster helicopters for that!
In the old Sim Copter game, you could get an Apache....
Ewww, why full chrome? Chrome and gold are awful colour schemes for any vehicle.
Also that rumble it's so soothing 🎶
@9:49
Imagine having an expensive jet ski boat and you expect praises then an Apache flies along skimming the water , your jet boat now looks any other :)
Your RAH 66 Comanche video also deserved a mention in this video. Although not a direct successor it would have removed some reconnaissance burden from the Apache.
Great video thanks!
Glad to see you back
Timely news Mr. Droid. Australia may be ordering some soon. Thanks.
what an interesting video! thanks droid!
@5:29 DCS in-game footage detected 😀Wondering if others also spotted it (or instead assumed it was real)
Also, @9:40 that footage has to be from Holland, ~100% certain with that green, water and farms .. I wasn't aware they have Apaches, but now I know.
Thanks for your content. I love your videos
Please do a video on underground nuclear testing
Thanks Paul.
The competition was SO worth it and one of the most important events in US military history as it’s events resulted in the A10, the Apache and the Harrier! 3 of the most iconic military attack aircraft on earth! THE Close Air Support Legends!
I live in Lincolnshire seen one a few times now feel blessed when I see it
Great vid.
Another amazing video CD… god I fking love your channel
A few years ago I was in a small field in Suffolk trying out a saiga 12G shotgun (Made by Kalashnikov and looked the part). Near me was an ex army Lightweight Land Rover tucked under some trees. It must have looked a bit weird to a hovering Apache that was about 300 yards away. I waved of course. The Apache was not what I expected to see in Suffolk. The tableau on the ground was probably something they were not expecting to see as well.
What I want to know is how the hell did he spot me. It must have been the Land Rover . It was painted NATO green. It was either a one in a million chance or they have some fantastic optics.
Yeah today's flir cameras cost about a million and kick serious ass. I operate 2 on a regular basis
I just checked if I missed a video, checked the bell, but no, he doesn’t post that often. Love your content. NASA cameras was my favorite so far. But the quality is worth the waiting!
Hope you stay well in your health
All the best from Glasgow ❤
That was awesome 👍
When I was a kid I had the game GUNSHIP for the c64 which was an apache simulator. I was ahead of its time back then, I think he design was so solid back then is not surprising that with a few updates it still is today.
The huge advantage of knowing Friends and enemies position and communicating it to others, can turn into a huge disadvantage within seconds. But they have color screens now, so they probably have the latest version of Kaspersky too.
Now if there's one thing you can be sure of, it's that nothing is more powerful than a young boy's wish. Except an Apache helicopter. An Apache helicopter has machine guns AND missiles. It is an unbelievably impressive complement of weaponry, an absolute death machine.
Wish we'd gotten the RAH-66 Comanche. Those things were awesome. And by that I mean the ancient computer game was awesome.
Your videos are excellent in content and quality. Thank you.
Looking good glad to see you hope your ok
They were grounded for a lot of the first Gulf War, due to the intakes not being able to handle the sand, and deestroying the engines.
Does anyone else have the song Thunderstruck by ACDC rolling in the back of their mind when they're watching the Apache fly?
I believe that's mandatory.
@@jonpinkston much like Ride of the Valkyries when Hueys fly in formation
I was thinking more the theme to Airwolf...
No
No music
I love this channel
idk if it is still the best one, but for sure is the most badass one
Mi-24 looks a lot more badass
@@Alex-cw3rz mi24 looks like a special Ed bus
@@M167A1 what are you smoking?
@@M167A1 are you not going to explain yourself you said something exceptionally stup id.
The successful Taliban are of the same opinion.
British RAF Chopper pilots were asked what attack chopper they would like from the Tiger, AH-1 Super Cobra, RAH-Comanche and Augusta Mangusta...... they replied Mi-28. Yes the Rolls Royce Engine upgrade addressed the AH-64's abysmal range and climb rate... a bit. BAE's electronics suit actually allowed the Hellfire to hit a target beyond 3 miles and in the rain. But it's a FACT, the Mi-28 is faster, more armoured, better armed and it gets better with the NEW Mi-28 NM prioritised due to KA-52 losses. With full data sharing and target aquisition suite via drones, SAT, vehicles and Ratnik Equipped troops on the ground, this thing hits hard and includes stealth features.
Thing is a beast it’s a shame we aren’t in war thunder as they will perpetually be underproduced and under utilized
Anyone remember the Comanche?
Yes, I had opportunity to mess with a Comanche tailboom a few years before it was cancelled. Interesting that the cancellation announcement came from General Richard Cody, who was an Apache pilot.
Great work as always paul thanks again sirrespect 😀👍👏👋the AH64 is a valueble asset for any army, quick deploymen, adaptabilty for many sorties, and a quick turn around for different mission types,what an awsome aircraft they should deploy the AH64 in ukraine perfect against T64s and hind helicopter 😎
Wow, you survived that dragonfire, good for you!
Another great video Paul ... my feelings on the Apache?
• Still NO Electronic Warfare..?
• Rejected the pusher prop only to return to it in the FLS
• AH-64x _withstands 23mm rounds?_ BS! PROXIMITY fuse! Not direct hits!
• But the LIST of crew killed by 12.7mm x 99mm (or smaller is on wikipedia).
• CH-46 + CH-47 wait for all (yes, AH-64) even Ospreys until transitioned (rotated)
• The NOTAR would've COOLED the exhaust via the fan, mixing the hot & the COLD air.
• For COMPOSITE (substantial kevlar, per the 80s) ... it SURE is a heavy helo; maybe a DIET?
• NEVER confuse the M230 (30 x 99, no bottleneck) which relies on semtex for the GAU-8, etc.
• Maybe they'll go with a tilt rotor, however, those expose vital turbine components in the nacelles.
• Anyone wonder where that 80s angular design originated? Think: Wobbly GOBLIN (only huge RCS).
• Some '91 partner-force fratricides (UK) were caused by the Apache's GPS drift error we "saved $$ on."
• Fortunately, we can choose our theaters! Bc HOT + HIGH elevation are brutal on Apaches & (most helos).
• MONOCHROME displays In 2023 ? In GREEN when you're using Starlight ..? Makes things invisible (+, no depth perception)
*CONFIRM MY COMPLAINTS via WIKIPEDIA or even with an AH-64x PILOT*
A WIKILEAKS report revealed a Congressional Research considering upgrades and modifications to what would be (tentatively) called the AH-64E, variant. The "E" variant would include not just similar upgrades as found on the D / Longbow, but also almost certainly would contain a newer RADAR array than the AH-64D / Longbow AN/APG-78 millimeter-wave Fire-Control RADAR (FCR) for target acquisition & Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI), within the mast / dome above the main rotor.
As the D was limited to 128 targets (similar to other RADAR systems from the aughts like the F-35) unless the cost hasn't scaled down in accordance with the decade past, I'd be SURPRISED if rotary-wing pilots didn't receive some of the amenities that we have to assume ... when the U.S. gov pays the "Prime Mover" costs (and in a cost-plus charging structure) that they have carte blanche to replicate their investments wherever they're willing to pay that extra 10%.
So just as the F-35 is receiving the AN/APG-85, and while there'll most certainly be a price tag that CD's subs couldn't accord if paid for in aggregate, congress will just leave the printer on a little longer for a ROUND _"AN/APG-84"_ .......? And who knows, maybe they'll even use some sensor fusion. Bc say what you want about landing on a carrier (magic carpet makes it MUCH easier) ... and refueling next to a KC that's increasing the difficulty ... and last, acclimating to prolonged +7G turns or (worse) -2G anything ... HELEOS! Require you know where the end of your rotor is to not hit a TREE, or your friend, or take off without a runway when you may overheat the engines, or to try to clear those Afghan mountains ... all at speeds that make that "golden bb" MUCH more plausible to just END you ... (if they haven't planned an ambush with those 50 yo RPG-7s) ...
Case in point? ANYTHING we could do to for Helo pilots that:
- lightens the OODA loop
- simplifies their info to what's most important (likeliest to kill them
- makes it harder to target them ... or ... if that's not possible (comanche)
- massively reduces the time available TO shoot them (pusher prop, emergency rockets, etc)
AH-64E (vs the Future Lift System?)
- FBW (fly-by-wire) flight controls
- MUCH needed new engines & engine filters (hell, they needed upon arrival TO Iraq)
- Performs targeting (when not outnumbered) or, perform concealed-ISR on low fuel, winchester, or waiting for your squadron.
- Keeps up to ≥ 90% of vehicle below hills, vegetation (trees) ... muffling, deflecting and absorbing sound: Increases pilot safety.
The 501 planned AH-64E must cost more than just adding millimeter RADAR + subsystems on the Longbow...
But, will still be massively less expensive than going with another F-35 style "Future Lift System."
The DoD solution is always the stupidest: Just pay the same for half as many. Didn't work? Sure 1/10 will be cheaper (w fixed R&D cost).
The Longbow has already been deployed on
AH-64D upgrades:
Receives the Longbow extended range and information processing.
Are upgraded to a “glass cockpit” (meaning MFDs instead of “steam gauges.”
Advanced sensors (classified).
The most noticeable of which being the AN/APG-78 Longbow millimeter-wave fire-control radar (FCR) and target acquisition system (TAS).
TESTING:
The Longbow “D” variant’s results after testing against experienced AH-64A pilots:
From early through April 1995
6x AH-64D were pitted against a “bigger” group of AH-64As.
RESULTS:
The AH-64D increased survivability by 7x and lethality by 4x over the AH-64A.
The hellfire is just plain an awesome missile. However, I heard the British version, Brimstone is even more badass, just can't find a lot of hard data on Brimstone.
There's a book called 'Apache' by Ed Macy. It's a great book. Especially the part where he talked about the migraine headaches pilots got learning to use the monocular sight with one eye and the flight instruments with the other. He claims that he can now read two books at the same time, one with each eye.
The Sea Harrier for the marines? Great research!
Satisfied my curiosity
The Apache is my most favourite aircraft of all time
Favourite Helicopter! Even if you dont know anything about helicopters you can appreciate the apache regardless I feel.
*Helicopter
@@Aeronaut1975 Haha thanks
Now days those Hydra rockets would be upgraded into guided munitions with APKWS. The line between unguided rocketed and guided missile is becoming more blurry, eventually we might have to change the meaning to mean caliber or explosive power with rocket being smaller but more precise and missile being bigger and more explosive. Also I heard a while ago they wanted to update the Apache to from fly-by-manual to fly-by-wire, though I don't know if they already have, haven't but still plan to or just canceled it. Also they plan to put directed-energy weapons on them like a laser.
I wished you would do an episode on the replacement for the Apache, the Comanache.
I've always like the Apache and it's good to see the E model enter service with the British Army. Had a pair fly over this evening in the dark.
Spent a lot of time piloting this helicopter back in the 90s on genesis’ Red Zone :)
Just won a AH-64 Longbow. I only had to pay for the packaging and handling to Portugal. Thank you CuriosDroid!
you cant hear them coming. The design on these birds are amazing
YES
It was advanced at 20th CC against soviet doctrine. In 21th CC, It doesnt have any chance for sam, smart kamikaze drones and the latest manpads. US can push them alive until year 2200, and can use where no air defence system or continue to use against AK-47.
Only as good as AAA let it be. Applies to every helicopter.
Exactly this.
Was involved with the UK model a good number of years ago. He did not really go into depth on the Apache's survivability capabilities after taking a hit. Plus it tends to fly below any AA. Modern AA misiles may be a problem, but I suspect the defensive aids have kept pace.
The issue is, the US wrote the book on how to suppress AA.
The underated A129 Mangusta
Cobra is still #1 in my book and I still have all the maintenance manuals.
My nephew is about to learn about maintaining them…he’s a bright kid.
How dies it compare to the tiger and similat helicopters?
i suspect the digital integration is key here, but is there anything else that separates it from the tiger and kamovs
Love your videos. Hope you are doing well, buddy.
Always will be the best for me. Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf on the good ol' Megadrive (Genesis for US and A)
Great video, showing while the US can waste money with the best of them, we can squeeze out value with the things that work.
Pronounced General Carl “Stye-ner”. I used to work in his G-1 section in the 82nd Airborne Division👍🏼🪂
Missed the show man
The only thing I can think of, is the survivability. The engines are spaced apart like an a-10. if one gets hit it can still land safely away from the front. Lots of countries have helicopters with decent ATGM's and at least a 20mm gun.
Would love to see you do a video on South African Helicopters, like the Rooivalk.
The Rooivalk was a bottom end orphan.
The algorithm has robbed me of your channel for months 😮 What's the point in being subscribed
Don't forget the South African made Rooivalk when talking about the "Best attack helicopter" - Thanks for the Video 😉
Great post @Curious Droid. Fascinating as always. Hmm...No mention of the Russian KA-52?
This was an Apache-centic video. To that end, the Ka-52, the Augusta Mongoose, the Cobra were not discussed either.
An apache helicopter has machine guns AND missiles, it's an unbelievably impressive complement of weaponry. An absolute death machine.
3:40 that picture consists of a single engine AH-1(bottom) and a YAH-63(top).
The most important component of the aircraft is the moustache on the pilot
Can we get A.129 mangusta video as well
Well it was daylight when one of those started shooting at someone a km from above my house. Not a great December
Today's Apache is a world away from where we started, I think it still represents the best platform available for the role it serves, granted I am biased tho :)
going from 128 to 256 makes for prettier pictures too
Ahh, just nicely for the evening: best content on tube :)
Wow
Love your videos, though at 6:02 you hit on a pet peeve of mine.
Saying the transmission can operate for 30 minutes without oil is like saying your car comes with seatbelts, it's required by the US government (14 CFR 29.927(c)(1)).
Another CD video. Always welcomed
this channel rocks!
the new hybrid pusher prop choppers coming got the potential to crush it. Raider i believe....
Awesome video, thank you Paul!
It'll be my favorite until a cooler one comes out
Thing is, it may not be the best, but the crew will be trained to the max and have combat experience.
If you're counting crews, the RU helicopters shoot to the front of the pack pretty easily. I doubt the excellent US training is as effective as recent combat experience against a near-peer adversary.
@@cmdr4589 Is combat experience worth something or isn't it? RU helicopters have done alright given the circumstances IMO. Helicopters are going to be atritted in any near peer conflict. How many helicopters do you think the US lost in the Vietnam conflict? The NVA didn't have any stingers.
If you swap the Ka-52s or Mi-28s out for apaches, and fly the same missions in Ukraine, I bet you will see losses that aren't a lot different. And when you control for cost of the aircraft and training, I bet the apache comes off as the worse bargain.
Or you could just regurgitate the CNN memes, your call.
@@onogrirwin The insane sensor suite on the apache would probably be a pretty big game changer when comparing it to their russian counterparts. Of course it also needs the accompanying command and control infrastructure (which the russains lack anyways), but I would imagine the russians would be far more successful if they were able to utilize the senor capabilities of the apache platform to its full potential.
@@6ixpool520 I generally agree. However the sensor suite isn't going to, for instance, allow it to operate safely in an environment threatened by both manpads and medium range sams. And both are hapless targets when parked on the tarmac for a suicide drone or something.
@@6ixpool520 it will not make any difference against manpads and s300 so stop grasping at straws to prove your false point just because of personal bias and on top of that the mi28 havoc has very Sophisticated sensors in its latest version and it's still been shot down which is to be expected in a war like this
The addition of the Digital Battlefield capabilities make the modern forces and incredible effective fighting force. It would be interesting to see how it operates in a hostile electronic arena. It really is getting to the point of computer game management of the battlefield.
As always great information and narration. Thank you.