Cross-Border Amtrak Cascades Train Seattle - Vancouver - it feels like a “Prison Train”
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Amtrak Cascades Train: № 516
From: Seattle King Street Station, Washington, United States
To: Vancouver Pacific Central Station, British Columbia, Canada
Via: Puget Sound, Edmonds, Mukilteo, Everett, Snohomish River, Stanwood, Mount Vernon, Chuckanut Bay, Bellingham, Blaine, New Westminster Bridge (Fraser River)
Border United States/Canada: Blaine(Gr) / Peace Arch Park
Used Railroads: BNSF Railway Northern Transcon, Scenic Subdivision, Bellingham Subdivision, New Westminster Subdivision, Canadian National Railway
Travel Class: Coach (Second Class)
Coach no.: no assigned seating
Train operator: Amtrak Cascades, WSDOT
Railcar Model: Horizon / Comet, built by Bombardier Transportation in the late 1980s
Price: USD 82
Booked on: amtrak.com
Scheduled time of departure from Seattle, WA: 07h50 PT
Scheduled time of arrival in Vancouver, BA: 11h50 PT
Scheduled Travel time: 4 hours
Arrival delay into Vancouver: 24 minutes (12h14 PT)
Railway Distance: approx. 253 km
Travel season: August 2023
Diesel Locomotive: Siemens Charger SC-44 #1407
Owned by: Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT)
Built by: Siemens Mobility, Sacramento, California
Music Credits:
Connection by IMG
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00:00 Preview Summary
02:52 Seattle Link Light Rail
04:19 Seattle King Street Station
06:40 Amtrak Cascades Horizon Railcars
08:52 Scenic Subdivision: Seattle - Edmonds
11:41 Puget Sound: Edmonds - Everett
16:02 Everett - Mount Vernon
19:50 Mount Vernon - Bellingham
23:41 Salish Sea + Bistro Car
26:48 Border United States / Canada
29:13 Strait of Georgia
31:31 Fraser River (New Westminster Bridge)
35:40 Canadian Immigration (CBSA) + Pacific Central Station
39:02 Vancouver SkyTrain
I am a retired Amtrak conductor and that conductor you encountered is a disgrace to the profession and should be fired If passengers like you don't write and complain nothing will ever change for the better.
I’m going to find out who they were and have a chat. I’m disgusted with people that make us look bad. “Service with a snarl”. 😢
The majority of Cascade's rolling stock were Talgo 6's, which were involved in the fatal 2017 crash that killed 3 people. While the ultimate cause of the crash was the driver being unfamiliar with the trackage and speeding into a curve, the NTSB also determined that the design of the Talgo 6's articulated sections was directly responsible for the portion of the crash that killed those passengers and ejected two others from the trains.* At the time of the crash, they were also 20 years old and near the end of their service life. As such, they were withdrawn from service and scrapped.
The train sets you saw laying over in this video are Talgo Series 8 cars, which are safe and still in service. Both sets were purchased by Oregon's Department of Transportation to add extra service to the Seattle-Portland-Eugene parts of the service, where their tilt capabilities shave significant running time off the schedule. As such, they generally aren't used for the northern trip to Vancouver.
From the NTSB Report (RAR1901, findings 30-31 & 46-46): "The Talgo Series VI passenger railcar AMTK 7424 (8) did not provide adequate occupant
protection after its articulated connections separated, resulting in complex uncontrolled
movements and secondary collisions with the surrounding environment which led to
damage so severe to the railcar body structure, that it caused passenger ejections.
The failure of the articulated connections of both Talgo Series VI passenger railcars AMTK 7422 (10) and AMTK 7504 (7), the detached rolling assembly from AMTK 7422 (10) and its secondary collision with AMTK 7504 (7) directly resulted in three fatalities and two partially ejected passengers who had been traveling in AMTK 7504 (7)."
"The failure of the articulated connections defeated the compartmentalization feature of
AMTK 7421 (11) and provided a pathway for passenger ejection.
When the articulated connections failed, it resulted in a secondary collision that caused
railcar AMTK 7424 (8) to roll over onto its roof and collapse its structure which dislodged
the windows and allowed passengers to be ejected."
It's notable that there is ample reason to believe that the Talgo 6's performed better than US-style train cars would have - and, indeed, the only car with serious injuries or deaths was the one that *fell off a bridge* and landed on its roof. The remaining cars remained upright, and the true cause of the crash and the deaths was ultimately poor track design, training, and especially oversight.
The crash occurred on the inaugural run of the Point Defiance Bypass, which enabled faster service between Portland and Seattle. Two of the three men killed - Zack Willhoite and Jim Hamre - worked for a local transit agency (Pierce Transit) and the Washington State DOT and had been major advocates for the project, and members of the state's rail advocacy non-profit. The third victim, Benjamin Gran, was an autistic person described as "Amtrak's biggest fan."
Besides the incorrect captions that the the Talgo 8s shown are “Permanently Parked”, they are arguably the nicest trains Amtrak currently operates, at least until the new Acelas enter service. Maybe if Amtrak/WSDOT can figure out a Eugene-Vancouver BC schedule, ODOT would let them run north of Seattle. A full length Cascades run on Talgos would pretty much make it a flagship route, especially if they restored the original Cascades Dining options.
@@bryancarrington3518 I rode on those Talgo's few years ago from Vancouver, BC to Portland, OR. Amazing ride I must say. Wish they were running now, instead of these ugly coaches. Can't wait for the new sets.
I did this trip in June of this year (2023) and loved every minute of it. The scenery is breathtaking most of the way. Roger, aged 69, England.
Wow, your comments are pretty wild. Your attitude is what soured the trip, not the train in question.
1) You are not supposed to get off the train at the intermediate station. That is well known in the US.
2) Your stance of a "prison train" and comparing it to China is pretty wild. The cars were built in the 1980s and there is new equipment to be delivered in 2025/26.
3) The Talgo 6's were the only trains pulled from service, the 8's are still in active service.
4) There is a 21mph speed restriction imposed by the Township of White Rock. BNSF cannot do anything to increase the speed.
5) Of course the bathrooms are tiny, people in the 1980s were tiny.
6) At Colebrook, you are going from BNSF to CN/BCR back onto BNSF.
7) Yep, it is painfully slow from Blaine to Vancouver BC. It could be a much faster ride.
8) Dirty? Yeah? I mean they are 40 years old. Of course they are going to be a bit grimy.
9) Why do you need to know what doors open? It is limited because of security.
10) All corridor trains are paid by the states. Yes, CBSA asked to fund additional staffing as it takes away from another border control check point (Generally Sumas)
11) All Canadian trains enter "the cage". It is staggered for a reason.
12) The amount of negativity in this is really what really killed this video.
Most North American train coaches don't meet Western European standards, but then again nearly all are considerably older. Unfortunately Europeans may be shocked to learn that less than TWO percent of Americans have ever rode a Amtrak intercity train beyond a local commuter train, while over EIGHTY percent have flown at least once in their life, whereas ONE HUNDRED percent use a highway one way or another, if only to walk or push a wheelchair along the side of the road... Congress are very aware of these facts train advocates don't...
You know that you are in a railway station in the USA when there are 6 services on the departure board of which 3 are buses.
I don't know how I could live if I had to be this negative all the time.
OMG, i was thinking the same thing. i made it halfway through video and gave up.
Yea OP is a real piece of work
Dude, the US "subsidizes" CBSA because they want to put border agents in Canada to filter people before they get to the US. So we have to build special facilities in our airports and train terminals. It causes all sorts of problems like, US border agents want to carry guns which we don't do up here.
Buses stop at the actual border and get checked by US and Canada customs in the same facilities everyone else does.
And there are very few passengers on that train daily compared to say, the actual crossing at Blaine or Pacific Highway, so it's hard to justify the cost of a border security area just for one train.
I get you like trains, but unlike Europe, they just aren't a big thing in North America. Also, this IS a different country after all and North America isn't the EU - we don't have freedom of movement here, mainly because the US doesn't want it.
The Amtrak trains were a special case. CBSA did not want to pay to put officers in the Vancouver train station, and actually wanted subsidies in order to do so. CBSA pulls officers from the marine enforcement team to go to service the trains coming in.
I fail to see why you refer to this as a "prison" train, it reminds me of Amtrak trains in general and it is an international route. Countries certainly have the right to protect their borders. This piqued my interest in taking the train to Canada since I have only driven there by car.
The vlogger is from Europe where there really isn’t borders. Different view there.
It has more to do with the 'ambience' of the rail cars, or rather, lack thereof. They're very cold and stark with a lot of exposed steel, and it appears not very clean, thus, like a prison. I suspect the toilets (not bathrooms) are almost the same as a prison toilet.
The train is functional and that is all it needs to be!@@perryelyod4870
@@railroad9000form and function are equally important
I’m never going to that satanic prisons state up north ever again. It’s a lost cause like North Korea.
One additional comment for 14:05. The gantry crane and dock rails mark the offloading point for barges that bring large airframe components to Boeing's Everett airliner production plant which produces the 767 and 777 (and soon the 737 too). The oversize railcars are pushed up the steepest operational rail grade in the US from sea level to 550 feet in just 1.8 miles (168m/2.9km) to the offload point at the top of the plateau.
Actually the Talgo owned by Oregon is still in use. But they don't go to Vancouver BC anymore. Also boarding process has been changed from several years ago, when I took cascades several years ago staff will give you a seat assignment at boarding. You can request certain type of seating such as single seat in Business class. Another note, southbound cascade only have passport control at Vancouver station, the train will stop at Border for custom inspection.
The new train isn’t as nice as the previous Talgo version. It’s not bad but that’s not a recommendation as trains go.
It does not rain all year round in Seattle, Portland or Vancouver. And, New Orleans gets twice the rainfall, with significant heat, epic humidity, the occasional hurricane, biting insects; desperate poverty and The South.
I've made the trip a couple of times, on Superliner equipment and on Talgo, not on the Horizon cars you rode.
The biggest frustration I have is the trip time, which is out of Amtrak's control. From KSS to the border you can travel at a reasonable pace, up to 79 mph in places. You hit Bellingham about 2 hours out of Seattle and think you're ahead of schedule. Then it takes 2 hours for the last 40 miles, rolling on on freight lines at 15-40 mph. You feel like you'll never get to the station, and as a bonus, you get to see the seedy side of Vancouver!
Since you are in a foreign country, Amtrak isn't (and probably couldn't) do anything about the route to make it faster.
One significant difference between Seattle and Vancouver is the Light-rail versus Skytrain. Skytrain is light-years ahead of Seattle's overpriced ($100B in voter-approved funding), poorly routed, under-utilized construction subsidy project. Light-rail in Seattle runs no more than once every 15 minutes (during rush hours), while Skytrain runs on headways of 5-10 minutes at most. The route structure in Seattle follows the political whims and as a result a 15 minute drive from downtown Seattle to the airport will take you an hour on Light-rail, with a nice long walk at the airport once you arrive.
Skytrain will let you get a lot of places in the Vancouver metro area quickly, safely and conveniently. I'm sure there are routing and scheduling issues that locals could bring to light, but from a visitors perspective, it is way, way ahead of Seattle.
Ya missed complaining about the flatspot on the wheel of the car you were riding in! 😂
Does NOT rain everyday here. We just had a Very, Very dry summer 2023!!
Some information to help explain the tracks and diesel, rather than electric, engines. There are some routes, mostly on the east coast, where Amtrak owns its own tracks and runs electrified systems. However, tracks are mostly owned by the freight companies; the Cascade route is owned by BNSF (merger of Burlington, Great Northern, and Santa Fe railroads) and they often make Amtrak trains wait. However, people who MUST be somewhere by a certain time usually fly or drive. Taking Amtrak means relaxing, with comfortable seats, and much less hassle to board than in airport. I haven’t been on a railroad in Europe since the 1970s, but the seats were very hard and there was hardly any legroom. I assume it’s better now?
Amtrak does listen if you have customer service complaints. If the toilets were dirty, or if the conductor was truly rude, call or write and complain, but if she was simply shouting instructions so that those instructions would be heard over people talking, that is hardly something to be upset over. Getting off a commuter train at a stop is not wise, unless you get permission first; if it’s time for the train to leave, you will be left behind.
On long distance trains there many car attendants plus a conductor. More doors will be open for boarding and attendants will be there to aid passengers and make sure “stow-aways” don’t sneak on. On the Cascades trains there is that one conductor operating doors. I’ve seen one opening a car for loading regular passengers and then opening the business/cafe car and operating a wheelchair lift for a handicapped passenger, all while trying to keep the departure on time.
Sure, it would be nice to have a luxury experience, but we would have to pay luxury prices.
Sorry to break this to you but I am 99% sure that cafe car was open the entire trip from Seattle to Bellingham. You must have misunderstood. They close it at Bellingham until the 2nd check of passports is completed which takes about 15 minutes. But it is always open prior to Bellingham. I ride this frequently. Sorry you misunderstood.
Made this trip ten years ago. It was fabulous, in business class…✌️🇦🇺
I believe train speed drops along White Rock Beach because you’re going thru a residential area, and a beach which has many foot crossings to get to the beach and pier. The track runs right alongside pedestrian sidewalk.
At 33:15 mark, that will be the New Pattullo Bridge under construction. It will be vehicles only bridge, NOT vehicle/rail bridge as you mentioned.
Puget Sound is not an inlet--it's the largest inland estuary connected to the Pacific Ocean. It's 95 miles long and connects to the Strait of Juan de Fuca, which is 96 miles long and varies in width from 11 to 17 miles. The Strait connects the Pacific Ocean to the Salish Sea. These are some of the largest and deepest inland waterways in the world (Puget Sound in the Seattle area is more than 600' deep).
Seattle's climate: gloomy from January to April, partly gloomy for May and June, sunny, beautiful, and very, very dry for July and August, cloudy in September, and rainy in October, November, and December. WRT rainy all the time, not at all true: you can't have a garden here unless you have irrigation; going without measurable precipitation for three weeks is not unusual. The gloomy months are very hard on many residents.
`The gloomy months are very hard on many residents' - which is why I don't understand why so many clusters of people from around the world are moving there, overpopulating the region, causing a variety of problems.
Late June through September are very dry and warm in the pacific northwest. Rain is mainly Nov through March but rarely heavy
Those towers are not in China, but their owners are.
XD
@@iceamerica7977 ZU
buy the ticket, check in, get in the car, take a seat, and just relax, while you see the outdoor, enjoy your music if you like, while having yr morning coffee. hahaha, be safe and smile....lol.....riding the train is very comfortable you don't rush.
Thanks for the video and sharing the adventure. One correction though at 10:05 : it doesn't rain all year in Seattle. It only rains once - it starts in October and stops in June. =) Seriously though, in the summer of 2023 there were only 4 rain events between June and mid-September which left us with the second driest summer on record. The result? Glorious blue skies almost every day.
Please tell us how you are so familiar with prison trains. And why you disobeyed the Conductor.
The conductor knows that after the last person is on the train, he or she still has some things that have to be done before the train can leave. 5 minutes is not much time for the people who need to get off to get off, the people who need to get on to get on, and then all of the other details that have to be done in order for the train to leave the station safely. You comment in several places that the train is on time. Part of the reason *why* the train is on time is *precisely* because the conductor does their job. Part of that job is get people to be where they are supposed to be. When you take "a fresh air break", the conductor perceives you as somebody who is getting in the way. You might not perceive it that way, but the conductor perceives it that way, and the conductor is the boss.
33:15 lol, the bridge under construction is the replacement Pattullo Bridge; "Boundary Road Bridge" is Daily Hive's April fools joke
I don't know about crossing by road or rail, but CBSA is quite speedy entering Canada by air, at least as a returning citizen. Probably depends where you are coming from and your residency/immigration status. I know CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) has to be very careful with land crossings because many Americans don't realize the strict differences in laws between the countries: pepper spray and guns are legal and much more available in the US. In Canada, pepper spray/mace is a prohibited weapon and firearms are strictly regulated with careful application processes required.
Regarding the high-rises, Vancouver urban planners have sought to concentrate density around SkyTrain metro stations (until recently was hard to develop single-family areas) and there is limited land in the Metro Vancouver area because of mountains and water. By the way, Canada is paying the entire cost of the Gordie Howe International Bridge between Windsor and Detroit, including highway interchange and customs plaza in the United States, so it is probably a fair trade.
Geez, you complained the entire trip.
After traveling on trains in Japan and Europe, North American trains must seem very old design and quality.
He had a subpar experience hopefully this will get better in the future.
AMERICA & CANADA: COUNTRY OF PERVERTS
AMERICANS & CANUCKS: PSYCHOTICS
He reported his experience, telling it as it was, good and bad bits. Do you want him to lie? I found it informative and interesting. You, ironically, complain about his complaining.
From a Amtrak report submitted to US congress in fall of 2022:
"A challenge of train travel is that unlike a point‐to‐point commercial airliner, passenger trains serve multiple stations, and our manifests are updated right up until the point where a train serves its last station prior to reaching the border."
So I can understand why train crew would be affraid of someone reserved to get to Canada would get off the train before since the passenger manifest that is sent to the border agency at last minute would not reflect your leaving the train and the passenger count on board would not match the count in the reservation system, and they would have hard time figuring out which passenger left.
Wonder if explaining to conductor that you have no desire to get off train and onlt wish to take pictures at stops would alleviate fears.
It's unfortunate you had to experience this route in this 'interim' period with Horizon cars. It was amazing back in the day with older Talgo or Superliner cars. Actually, the Superliner cars were the best equipment on this route.
The Talgos were nicer inside, but their single axle wheel arrangement was not great for the jointed rail north of Everett. The Superliners and these Horizons handle that better with traditional trucks/bogies.
It’s depressing because all the people are sad or nuts. Just spent a week in sunny San Diego with its perfect weather. It’s like a ghost town full of zombies. Canada and Washington state were both so fresh and promising. Now it’s like a prison. An evil presence is pushing down on everyone. Dreams are over. Waiting for famine and war.
10:05 "It normally rains in Seattle all year long." No it doesn't. Summers are usually dry from June to early September, and not too hot compared to other parts of the US.
34:57 "All these high rise apartment buildings, are we in China?" Pretty much, yes. Chinese interests own most of Vancouver's real estate and those buildings are likely built with Chinese money and designed by Chinese architects.
The reason the train slows to 48 km/h in white rock is not track condition. It is all the oriole crossing the tracks on foot to get to the beach. The parking lot is in the opposite side of the tracks from the beach.
ok, well i wasn't in a hurry; and the slow speed gave me a chance to film the shoreline of white rock
The horizons are placeholders until the new Siemens venture coaches arrive in 2025. Sadly the talgos are retired after a bad accident and the fact that the Washington State Dot didn't want to pay to have a full time mechanic on board each train. Next time book Business class, its a great seat.
Calls it a prison train even after explaining exactly why the conductor got mad at him for getting off the train. "pRisOn tRAiN". The amount of whining and entitlement from the poster. yikes man.
Obviously doesn't understand North American preference for stainless steel or aluminum... You don't need to paint them, nor do they rust... Important in the northern US and all of Canada where SALT is used on pavements at stations ALL winter long... Canada has four seasons, winter, winter, winter, and summer...
Fun fact: BNSF is not is own independent company. It's actually fully owned by Berkshire Hathaway, the famous holding company run by Warren Buffett.
They have never equalled the original Great Northern internationals. Two identical train sets each making 1cand 1/2 round trips each day giving three daily departures from both ends Two 60 seat coaches one dinette coach , one parlor lounge and a baggage. Each daily train connected to Portland and at Portland connected to California. Connections were 15 to 20 minutes trains were reliable enough to allow such quick connections.
It does not rain in Seattle all year. What a stupid thing to say.
Nice filming. They used to assign seats at check in at Seattle and you could request which side you preferred and it was nice but apparently no more. CBSA on arrival can be tough with solo travelers. But this route does indeed have some incredible scenery and is a nice trip. BTW, Business Class is let out first on arrival in Vancouver.
Good effort on your commentary but you got some facts wrong. The track on the Canadian side of the border is only slow because of all the bends and curves and has nothing to do with track condition. The government owned Fraser River bridge is 10 mph. The track from the west end of the bridge until Vancouver is still owned by BNSF. In 2006, it was leased to CN who operates and maintains it.
Beautiful videos. T-Mobile US is an American wireless network operator, of which the largest stakeholder is Deutsche Telekon AG. Their Headquarters are split between Overland Park, KS, and Bellevue, WA.
We did this train ride from Seattle to Vancouver and it was AMAZING!!! We had a double decker car with great seats! Plus, the observation car was all glass, ceiling included with swivel chairs on each side! It was a great trip! I do not understand why you would call the cars "prison cars"!!! Even with us experiencing a landslide on track still 2+ hours from Seattle didnt make us feel it was a bad trip! We had to get off at a station and wait for buses to come get us to finish the trip back to Seattle. We are from Arkansas and I have traveled to 26 different states. This was a wonderful and very scenic ride!!! I would highly recommend it!!! You seem to be a very negative person! Side note: we were not stopped by Border Patrol going into Canada but we were on the way back to the US. The conductor had us scared to death about how to deal with the Agents. The guy came into a car and was this amazing 6'2" muscled up gorgeous guy in a uniform!!! At that point me and my two daughters didn't care if we were arrested!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
On the border issue: agreements have been in place to have US customs at Canadian airports for long. By having USA customs in Canada, it allows planes to land at domestic wings of airports (or serve domestic airport in USA such as Washington-National (Reagan) and La Guardia.
They extended this agreement for Amtrak, but so far only Vancouver ws able to implement it. Montréal lost half its interecity railway station so very unlikely they will ever be able to create the border zone.
When a plane lands, part of your ticket goes towards paying the customs of that country to welcome you. Similarly, when an Amtrak train arrives in Canada (or goes to USA), it needs to pay fees to the border agency of the country receiving the train.
Canadian border facility was at the CN station (now Pacific Central) for ages, but to setup the US pre-clearance for southbound trains costs money to not only create a sterile zone but also lose those tracks because can only be used for that train. And the USA is very pedantic about USA pre-clearance facilities. At most airport, this means a separate wing/terminal because you are partly in USA territory after clearing customs/immigrarion, though Canadian laws and law enforcement stil applies. This is why there are the fences. This is dictated by USA. An this is why USA got billed for implementing these features at the station.
But as part of your train ticket, you still end up paying for customs in each direction. Going north you pay for Canada Customs, and going south, you pay for US customs.
When you have only 1 or 2 trains per day, you still need all the facilities and staff. On the Adirondack, the tracks happen to be near a road border point, so they get a couple of agents to walk to the train when it arrives to clear the passenters. Clearing the train during the trip basically adds an hour or 2 to the total travel time. Clearing it at stat or rend of trip reduces the schedule time (but you then need to arrive early at train station to clear customs).
Airports have more constant flow of passengers so car afford to have higher capacity customs clearance facilities.
Amtrak only pre clear passport control at Vancouver, they will still stop at border for Custom
my question: Is US CBP mandating Amtrak to "discourage" non-US citizens to leave a Canada-bound train at a station in the US (e.g. Bellingham) ? Amtrak is submitting passport details to US CBP, which in turn automatically that a non-US citizens has left the US by train.
Not leaving train at short stop is more likely an issue of not disrupting the train schedule and having to check your tickets again as you re-board board train, especially if you are mixed with people starting their journey in that stop. But I'd say this is more due to bad conductor. If you're the only one getting out, conductor should remember your face and let you back in.
Past Belligham, there is no question the train must be "sealed" and exact count made and transmitted to the Canadian border folks and how many they expect getting off at Vancouver. Need to detect anyone getting off train if it is stopped due to rail traffic (and thus get into Canada without going through border).
Going south is different because you enter the USA in Vancouver before boarding the train so between Vancouver and border, they need to ensure nobody gets *on* the train during unscheduled stop).
If everyone between Portland and Seattle to Canada are put in the same car, then after Seattle, they don't want pax in that car to move around since they have already been counted and tickets checked.
(Amtrak seems to lack modern ticket checking on board trains, and may eplain some weird procedures).
@@doc7austin
@@doc7austin There's no legal requirement to stay on the train - the conductor was just being a jerk. I don't think Everett is considered a "fresh air stop" since it's only a few minutes, but I've never had a conductor do more than caution me it's a short stop and to not leave the immediate area around the door so I can quickly re-board as soon as they are ready to depart. It's only after the Bellingham stop that the train is "sealed", and that's only because Canadian Customs need to clear the passengers on their arrival at Pacific Central in Vancouver.
The ticketing issues with Cascades are well known to locals and a long point of frustration between Amtrak and WSDOT/ODOT, who actually fund the service and contract Amtrak to operate it. The issue is somewhat indeed the ticketing software used for the route, but many of the absurd boarding procedures aren't justifiable by anything except Amtrak's archaic and "this is how we've always done it" mindset.
I took this train southbound several times between 1995 and 2010, and the train used to come to a full stop just after crossing from Canada into the USA for border inspection. It's only about a 50 m walk from the highway border crossing to the track, so the US Customs officers just walked over and boarded the train. But the stop added 10 or 15 minutes to the trip time.
Apparently the preclearance of US-bound passengers at the Pacific Central station in Vancouver is something that began sometime after 2019; I found a November 2019 article about this having recently been suggested.
IGNORE all the negative commenters in your "attitude" I liked the vid very much. THUMBS UP!
Just took this journey this summer from Portland, Oregon. They have added a direct train from Portland so there are two trains daily in each direction from Seattle.
USA TO Canada? Sounds more like a freedom train to me.
France; high tech, clean trains, and the conductor locks himself in his compartment not to be seen until arrival.
Italy; dirty, graffitified, run-down trains and stations with no service.
Spain; excellent and friendly service and food on clean, comfortable non-fancy cars.
There is talk about making this train high speed at some point, but just talk. Also talk of rerouting the BNSF line away from the White Rock coastline, but again, just talk.
Talgo 8s aren’t parked the two sets are used daily. The older sets were retired after the accident.
Just a wee bit negative! Also, the new bridge across the Fraser River is for vehicle traffic only, no rail traffic.
The Talgos were falling apart with spare parts difficult to acquire in the USA... The American builder of these European coaches closed their doors nearly two decades ago... On the other hand the builder of the Horizon coaches doors is still OPEN with spares considerably easier to acquire...
I guess you haven't much experience of crossing international borders on train, aside from inside the EU. Crossing into the East Bloc on train was always an adventure, especially when guards would shut and lock window shades to prevent one seeing or taking photos. Ive taken the Cascades many times and barely notice the border check, its just a fact of life and compared to other places I've been it is painless.
He did have a lots of experience across the border in former USSR countries. You can see video on the channel for that.
Witch East Block are you referring too ? You mean the one back in the 80ties ? FYI it doesn't exist in 2023. And it was a block of communist countries with hostile regimes and enemy intentions. Yes it was like entering North Korea. Do you consider Canada the same ? Or you just want to pay useless salaries to some relatives for playing that they are guarding a border, witch in fact is only a drain ditch, with Residential houses on both sides, where dog owners walk their dogs across with no restrictions whatsoever ?
30:53Algae is good. It absorbs carbon dioxide and generates oxygen
I love the last scene watching downtown vancouver from the sky train.!! It looks like a huge city!!
It does NOT rain in Seattle all year long.
Not all year long, just almost all year long. 😛 C'mon, I spent most of my life in Western Washington, and the truth is there's entire months when it seems like there isn't even a single pause in the constant rain. Yes, there's certainly many sunny days in Summer... but there is also plenty of reason for Seattle's reputation.
Lived about 60 years in Western Washington. Lots of overcast for 8 months with a little drizzle. On rare occasions there is a down pour. Summer can be sunny yet still cool. Maybe one month of hot days. It's rare to see homes with air conditioning. The overcast is the issue, not the rain. @@RaccoonRepublic
New York City gets more rain annually than Seattle.
Before 9-11 the customs proceedures were less bothersome.
Train slows through White Rock City because its the law, due to high volume of ppl that cross tracks at the beach area.
Well...USBP allowed to do security checks at Vancouver, Toronto airports, and Vancouver cruise port....aw, come on! Lol
The sovereignty of Canada😂
What a depressing video. Couldn't even finish due to the extreme amount of negativity and terrible spelling in the captions.
well, how does the offering of amtrak between seattle and vancouver compare to the trains on the inner mongolia high-speed railway, which i am featuring now; it is two worlds apart
@@doc7austin Haven't you noticed that China's huge new expensive rail and highway infrastructure has BANKRUPTED China even with nearly slave labor and zero right of way land acquisition costs? In America and Canada the government has to offer a FAIR price for land acquisition...
@@ronclark9724no he doesn’t hes one of these people that just believe every piece of propaganda the CCP posts
Excellent photography! On many scenes I can't even tell you are inside of the (dirty?) window. I'm glad they let you off the "prison" train. Lol! I understand that Amtrak has new train cars on order for the Vancouver, Canada to Eugene Oregon segment, but they won't be arriving until 2025.
Took the train from Seattle or Tacoma to Bellingham one year. Lot of peoples' back yards, which you thankfully didn't show. Also when we went in December there were extended delays while the conductors shoveled snow off of the tracks.
That fenced off immigration zone really adds to the prison train feel there haha.
I think it is important to remember that this IS an International train. There are all kinds of national security considerations involved. The logistics are different from an airport. Even when I traveled on this same train in 1998, the Customs guys were very hard-nosed and not very polite about their work. And they have to be. Canada has more to be concerned about than the US when it comes to fugitives or contraband trying to cross the border. As for the Canadian agency making Amtrak pay for the Customs procedures, I think that is pure politics. There is simply more demand for tourists wanting to go to Canada than vice-versa. New trainsets have been ordered for this line. The Talgo trainsets were already due for retirement when an entire Talgo trainset was lost in the derailment in 2017, which put a strain on the remaining trainsets. They were late being retired and the new trainsets were late being procured, and no doubt were delayed by the pandemic. I'm not surprised the Horizon cars are a little dirty, but personally I would enjoy riding on older equipment: the seats are better and the windows bigger. I won't apologize for a surly conductor, but again remember this is an international run with a lot of extra security considerations, which likely accounts for less doors being opened, not being allowed to exit the train on layover, etc. The conductor may not like working this line, and I wouldn't blame him.
This train looks a lot like the British Rail trains I used to ride in the early 80s. Lots of steel and very clinical looking. Amtrak doesn't make a lot of effort with their service to us in the Pacific Northwest. We have to drive. Our lifeline is the ferry system - the largest in the world. For us it's a 30 minute ferry ride or a 90 mile road trip to get to Seattle. You're wrong about our weather. We get very little rain from May thru September, but a fair amount of rain the rest of the year.
Once you board the train you essentially have cleared customs at King St. Station; that's why you are told to stay on the train. I hope that conductor was just having a bad day; no excuse to act like an oaf towards the passengers. Pity there was so much wildfire smoke as you missed some great scenery. The past few years we've had some horrendous air quality due to extreme levels of smoke. If you want a great scenic journey take a plane trip from Seattle to Calgary and grab that left side seat; stunning views of Puget Sound and SanJuan Islands before the plane turns and crosses the Cascade Range and on to Calgary. Next time you do Seattle come in September. No smoke, clear skies and the weather is great.
Horizon cars were NOT designed for Chicago commuters.
They were another coach car in the evolution of AMTRAK.
Enjoyed the vid. Did this trip several years ago on my way to catch Che Canadian. I was in Business and enjoyed the trip. I think that business is probably quieter and less crowded. If you have not ridden The Canadian, you really need to give yourself the gift. Fabulous trip and hte food is unbelievable!!
Remember when I was kid my dad take me and my sibling ons train between Czechia and Slovakia and border control was just officer checking the passport while train was going between last Czech and first Slovakian station.
Now there are no border controls between those countries since both are located in the Schengen zone!
This is really well made. I really appreciate all the context you've provided like the name of the places. Thank you :)
Yes, Amtrak trains are sloooowwwwwww, and usually late. That is not Amtrak's fault; the fault is the fact that Amtrak must use freight rail tracks not owned by Amtrak, those freight tracks are often not of the best quality, and that passenger rail gets second priority after the freight trains. On a side note, it does not, in fact, rain all year long in Seattle. The rainy season runs typically from October through April. Even at its wettest periods, the rain fronts come and go with periods of drying in between. From June until September, it is pretty dry and sunny.
0:32 It's Puget Sound, not THE Puget Sound.
It definitely has some prison vibes but man I would not call it a prison rather it’s like prison on wheels lol
prison on wheels - yes, this also sounds good.
The camera work is quite good. Your narration not so much...a bit entitled sounding. It's a ride that costs as little as $38?!
Talgo cars for the Cascade line were really nice but were scrapped for safety. Current cars are place holders until the new ones arrive next year.
Loved this video. Thank you so much. I didn’t mind your complaining too much.
That cordoned off area in Vancouver is mainly the idea of US customs and immigration to allow Vancouver-Seattle train service to start in 1996 after a 15 year absence.
yes, this enables the immigration pre-clearance procedure
@@doc7austin look into why there's no Canadian pre clearance on the US side for going to Canada even though the pre clearance deal allows it.
All those skyrises in Vancouver...not China but the city is surrounded by the Pacific Ocean, the US border and the mountains...nowhere to build but up and to the east. Vancouver us the centre of the universe in BC!
Four hours to go 150 miles? At thirty-seven mph average you can't miss much scenery.
White Rock it's my favorite spot for nude sunbathing. I always wave at the Amtrak train when comes by
When BN/GN/now BNSF ran the trains there were station stops in New Westminster, Crescent Beach, White Rock and then the border. NOW there are nonstops between Vancouver and the border. At one time inspection was done on board and underway.
Thanks for reviewing ride qaulity because I always want to know what smooth riding Europeans think of Amtrak rough rides.
I think the last train ride to Vancouver there were more doors open however in current times (working for a bus company that crosses the boarder. The training driver had removed all trash bags from seats so nothing could purposely or by accident be left in one and hold the bus up at the border inspection.)it could have been out of concerns crossing an international border, who's on the train and what might being carried by "passengers". New age of paranoia?
One must understand that Amtrak had a difficult birth and rough childhood. Half of the legislators in Washington DC who voted for the formation of Amtrak were under the impression that they were creating a structure that would wind down passenger train servicer in the in USA over a period of several years.
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If the same route nwas in Europe be so much better 😊
Excellent video. Very informative. Good photography.
In their defense, Amtrak has newer trains which are quite nice. Not sure which routes these are being implemented on (no excuse for the bad customer service though). Joe Biden was supposed to help improve Amtrak (as was his predecessor who kept talking about improving America's infrastructure, but did little in that regard), but bills get stuck in Congress. I took Trenitalia FrecciaRossa this summer, didn't notice a huge difference and actually found Amtrak's (new) cars better.
Nice video. Enjoyed watching.
T-Mobile stadium is named after a US Telco, which at one point was mostly owned by DT from Germany so it's got the same name but it's actually a different company
This is a lovely view of Washington, something I've never experienced, impressive how nice the seating seems compared to crowded aircraft presently...
Frankly the seats were of nice size and comfy with significant leg room, something you noted isn't available with any second class seat on any airline. As for the tiny windows, they are designed that way to go through tight tunnels over a century in age without blowing out, including that short tunnel in Seattle... The Horizon fleet were originally built as I recall for New Jersey Transit, which went through the tight Hudson River tunnels into Manhattan's Pennsylvania Station...
Ironically, after you deboarded the train, the conductor was overheard to say, "most passengers I've encountered have been great people, but that one was a bad apple."
“Most” only. Sad live for the conductor.
I've used the train to get from Vancouver to Seattle for work a few times. I'll take that over driving (but riding my motorcycle still wins), but the best option that I've found is taking a sea plane. Harbour to Harbor in a flash, and priced fairly. My main issue with the train route was the times that it runs just made it a pain for trips where the time matters.
Great report!! Those Horizon cars look totally soul-sucking and the bistro car looks equally grim and sad. VIA does a far better job especially the new stock and ...oh the statement about 'it rains all the time in Seattle'.. ( or Vancouver for that matter ) couldn't not be further from the truth in fact, the hazy skies in your video are the result of endless months with little to no rain in 2023. In Vancouver we were basically dry from later April to early October. This has been happening most springs and summers for years.
The Comet commuter trains were designed by Pullman first for eastern USA. The Metroliners and then Amfleet cars designed/built by Budd (who was primarily a steel company). Both Pullman and Budd got out of the railway business and sold rights to passenger trains to Bombardier. (Now Alstom).
Bombardier restarted production of Comet cars because of commuter railways such as NJ Transit were ready to place large orders and built assembly plant in Barrie Versmont to make them. ( that plant would later make the heavy steel Acella trains) and was abandonned since.
When Amtrak needed more coaches in late 1980s, it would have mad sense to get more Amfleet coaches, but they had been out of production since early 1980s, whereas Bombardier had Comet cars in production already and it was felt safer bet to adapt commuter cars to inter city since the shells were already in production ad already approved by FRA. They are being replaced by equally heavy Viaggios downgraded to USA standards (Siemens Venture).
On the Talgos: there were 2 flavours of Talgos: The original ones were modern one brought in from Spain and the FRA granted a waiver to allow modern light trains to run in USA. A few modifications were imposed on the Jacobs couplings and some more things.
Then, more orders were desired of those trains, but would have to be "Made in USA" and downgraded to USA standards. Talgo agreed to build a plant in Winconsin and create a heavy steel version of the Talgo trains (the Talgo 8) that were required fewer exemptions from FRA. The state of WIsconsin offered Talgo tax breaks and a large order for trains to serve its state in exchange for Talgo building the plant there. And so the plant was built.
The state of Wisconsin decided to cancel its order for Talgos after they were built and things turned ugly with lawsuits etc. Talgo pulled out and eventually managed to sell the trainsets to some country in Africa to reduce its losses. But that also meant that maintaining the USA-specific Talgos for the Cascades became harder. (made in USA also meant many components had to be made by USA companies who had done the one shot building fo parts but with Talgo plant closed and the legal issues that ensued had stopped making them).
I parralel, Amtrak/WSDOT worked to reroute the Cascades over a much faster section of track. On the day of innauguration of that new route, engineer sped up way over speed limit and train derailed at a curve just before bridge over busy route. Despite not being compliant with USA FRA rules, the cars remains whole and mostlty attached, even those that fell from the bridge. (as opposed to FRA compliant heavy steel Amfleet cars that have been seen wrapping themselves around a utility pole in a derailment). However, at the NTSB hearing, US politicians heavily criticised the FRA for having allowed these foresign trains into the USA (despite their crash performance being better) and there was pressure to widthdraw the trains as soon as possible. With no more orders for Talgos likely, it made availability fo spare parts for these few custom "made in USA" european trainsets even worse.
When the Talgos were originally put in service on the route, they saw ridership dramatically increase on the train.
Scenery nice but Wow! all the negativity about the entire ride.
Appreciate the commentary
There is no Second Class on US trains - just “coach”.
Business class is not First Class. Better seating and generally free drinks. Some routes have an exclusive car attendant for the car.
If you are on a long-haul train and in a compartment - that is kind of a First class.
On the Acela trains on the East Coast - there ARE 2 classes - kind of..
A “smoke stop” means passengers can get off the train on Amtrak, usually 5-10 minutes. Unlike Europe - you can’t get off at every stop.
Only 1 door being open - suggests your train was short-staffed. Did you see any other trainman besides the conductor.
After the 2017 eclipse - I was returning from Southern Illinois to Chicago. One of the trainmen “timed out” a few stops before where I got on. The other conductor had been driven downstate to work this crowded train. One conductor for almost 400 riders!
He did a great job!
They may be old and grimy, but nothing beats the ride quality of a big, heavy American stainless steel passenger car. I’ve tried both the Talgos and Via’s Rennaisance cars (abandoned uk sleepers) and they just can’t handle our rough track like American equipment. I’d compare these to the Ammendorf cars from the Eastern Bloc. I’ve yet to see how the new Siemens cars stack up though. You’ve got to ride our classic Via equipment some time. A trip to Prince Rupert would be my recommendation. Some of the best conductors I’ve ever met work up there, and they roll out the red carpet if you’ve got a camera.
Have known Ammendorfers and wanted to ride them since i was a kid. Sucks with the War now, the only route left with them that isn't sanctioned off to us NATOnians is the Vilnius-Klaipeda route of LTG Link (Honestly why don't the Balts just repurpose their Broad Gauge long distance stock for express services from their largest cities to their borders? Wtf? Mini America over there! Even to the point of cucking to Trump for $1Bn USD for what? Or if not, sell them to Canada. We'd gladly have them up North along with their TEP70 and TE116 fleet). Just looking at those, and the Chinese coaches derived and succeeding those, they're solid. Wish they could be imported. On routes to Northern Canada, even the Corridor, it'd be an improvement. Soviet tech may not look Instagram/TikTart worthy, but it's solid and reliable. Like comparing a Tesla or BMW to a Ford Crown Victoria, Lada or an old Chevy square body. Not sleek or modern, but you'll make it where you're fucking going, eh?
That being said, the Horizon does look quite spartan and it seems like once they made it out West, they ran into the ground. I ride Bombardier Bi-Levels of GO the most, and have had time on the HEPs and LRCs, but not Rens yet. Have had all three versions of Amfleet. the 1 and 2 in Long Distance variant, and the Amfleet 2 in Regional variant, all on the Maple Leaf. Each family has their nice variants and their trash ones. Have also rode the Hawker RTC-85 on Ontario Northland since 1998, and the CC&F cars ONTC bought in 1990.
How about improving the said rough tracks?
I have ridden Amtrak #7, the “Empire Builder”, but have not ridden the “Cascades” to Vancouver. Great video. Thank you for sharing. I have ridden Horizon cars in Midwest service, and they were better maintained than your train. The numerous commercials in your video are very annoying. I spent more time skipping commercials than enjoying the video.
I never saw an ad on this vid. I'm watchin it from Canada BTW.....
Crossing the border in Niagara Falls into Canada and return is painful. First you have to exit the train (weather be dammed) line up at customs for what seems like hours. Eventually re board the train after dogs have cleared the train which takes forever. And the inspectors look at you like your up to evil things, or a middle east terrorist. Might be easier just to got to Mexico and just walk across the southern border! So all this adds a long time to what should be a simple passport check. (as you are cleared when you first start your trip) Not a friendly way to cross the border. The trip takes much, much, much longer than it should.
Well then don't ride the train,
Racist much?
You are right, the train platforms do look similar to the Ukraine / Polish border, but the transition is faster due to much of the administrative work done right on board the train, less all around BS and more available trains once inside Poland.
Thank you for taking the tourist trap. SEA -> YVR… ~2hrs car, 3hrs bus, 4hrs train. Canadian tracks are only rated for cargo. Hi speed rail is needed for this run.
No it doesn't rain in Seattle all year long, your information is incorrect.
Yeah, the summers are quite dry. The annual rainfall in the Pacific Northwest is much less than the Northeast
For some reason the Amtrak employees have really bad attitudes as if they just hate there jobs. I’ve rode on many different Amtrak including the one you are on and same bad experience.