(I really wish I hadn't missed most of the stream, I have so much to say) The "Broken metaphor" thing. I believe you can break any metaphor if you misuse it hard enough. When you compare two things they have to be different in some ways, otherwise you're just comparing the thing to itself, and where's the point in that? What matters is that you make conclusions from the aspects of the things being metaphor'ed that are similar, not different. For example, "A lawyer is a shark. A shark is a fish. A lawyer is a fish." The problem is not that shark is a bad metaphor for a lawyer, it's that you're not drawing your conclusions from their similarities. Now to bring it back to fantasy racism vs. real world racism. For example in a fantasy work of fiction, there could be a mine that only hires dwarves. Why? "Dwarves see in the dark and sense the gold. They are also resistant to the magics that plague the caverns. Wouldn't want you to go missing there, human". That sounds fairly reasonable, I guess the hiring discrimination in the real world is not so ba-- NOPE. No-no-no, in real life people don't have magical powers that affect their work performance, so it's a poor use of the metaphor. Don't draw any IRL conclusions from that piece of worldbuilding, it only makes sense in fiction. On the other hand, here's another example. "Jeoffrey Fantasyname is an orc. He grew up in the capital of this country. Since childhood he was teased by peers for looking differently. And despite him studying diligently all of his life, his intelligence was always underestimated, because orcs often being nomads aren't commonly seen in places of high education, or cities in general". This (in my opinion) is a good use of metaphor, because it reflects how racism is based on superficial things, generalisation, and lack of knowledge of other cultures. The metaphor doesn't break.
As to Vex and Vax, I don't think metaphor breaks here either. The elves in Syngorn and their dad had no excuse to mistreat them (nor could they have it). "Their lives are so short compared to ours." - So what? They still deserve respect while they are alive. "They sleep for so much longer." - Which is a problem... How? "They have human blood in them, and their ears aren't as long!" - Yup, there it is! As shallow and baseless as in real world.
Since my name was uttered during the stream I am compelled to answer. (Not really, I just feel like it =P) Here's my take on social mechanics in TTRPGs. When you turn some aspect of life into a game mechanic you always simplify it. And then you can add complexity to the mechanic. But when you do it, you don't bring it closer to life, you just create a more in-depth mechanic. The combat in D&D 5e is pretty complex, it's the pillar of the game with most mechanics attached to it. But the experience is in no way similar to actual fighting you'd do in a historical reenaction, or even LARP. This "combat" is more of a resource management tactics game, and you could apply any flavour to it. The only pillar of D&D that you don't *really* need to simplify for it to work is social. You're people at the table, you can talk, argue, produce arguments, lie, etc. There are social deduction games where you do just that. But D&D is a ROLE playing game. Your character may be very bad at talking, or very good. You don't play as yourself, so some measure of your character's Charisma would be useful. That's why I think charisma checks are A-OK for a game like D&D, and probably even necessary. Sure, you simplified it to a roll of the dice plus modifier, but the players still have to make reasonable arguments and plausible lies. Now if you start adding more mechanics to THAT, that's when in my opinion you stray away from actual social roleplay. Spending 3 action points to use "Counter Argument" ability is not the same as actually making a counter argument. And if someone signed up for a game with a focus on social interaction, I suspect this approach will disappoint them. This Griftlands game is cool and I should definitely check it out, but it seems like the social combat in it could easily be reflavoured as "psychic combat" or "magic combat" with no mechanics changed. Basically, "Social" is not just a theme of the Social pillar of D&D, when all you're really doing is describing the same interactions with different flavour. No, it's what players do at the table. It's fundamentally different from the other pillars in that it's life-like.
About all elves having innate magic, personally, I don't think that's the case. Of the PHB elf subraces only high elves get a free cantrip. This has to be a wizard cantrip and the spellcasting modifier is intelligence. So it sort of implies that it's a learned ability, not genetic. Kinda like why mountain dwarves are proficient in more weapons and armors. I'd say only Eladrin are born with magic (because of the fey weirdness). 5e mixes things that really should be part of your character's background into the chosen race. In my opinion, a high elf raised by mountain dwarves would still have their trans and hightened senses, but not magic or elven weapons proficiency. Instead, they'd be proficient in dwarven armor and tools and have expertise in stone-related history checks. Edit: Also, headcanon, but for Tieflings their Infernal laguage proficiency is 100% something they are born with. And when they are born in human families, the parents are CREEPED OUT by the fact.
@@ghurcbghurcb @ghurcbghurcb I can see what you're saying, and I agree RE: 5e combing background and race stuff. However, with Elf specifically, while it may not explicitly say it, I do think it's reasonable to assume that there are inherent magical abilities. In the PHB, drow not only get a cantrip, but they get evolving spellcasting. Spellcasting that they specifically don't train, they just get it as they level up (which, tbf, I suppose could be considered training...). I would actually say that wood elves not having spellcasting is more the exception than the rule. I also consider the descriptive text that describes them as "magical people", which certainly could just be poetic, but I think is a bit more literal in this case. And, to top it off, they don't sleep. I know it's not described as explicitly magical, it's a "trained meditation" of sorts, but also, they DON'T SLEEP. The only other things in the game that provide that benefit are the robot race and the eldritch magic XD So all in all, I definitely think it's vague, but all of the factors, to me, point to some amount of inherent magical ability. I think it's understandable to come to the other conclusion, considering it "training" defintely seems to line up more with the way that the other races are constructed, but I still generally lean towards the inherent side of things.
@@MegaphoneMan0 I think elves being described as magical people doesn't necessarily mean the magic is innate. It probably has more to do with how common wizardry is in high elves' society (so much that high elf PCs get a cantrip by default). The main reason why I think so is that high elf spells are exclusively wizard spells, not sorcerer. Also, Drow and Eladrins' spellcasting trait is Charisma (like warlocks and sorcerers, respectively), but for High elves it's Intelligence. I never actually thought about the trans as a magical ability. I viewed it as "sleep is just not something elves are capable of, their brains have a different way of resting". Basically, D&D elves have some great and special abilities, compared to humans, and they live A LOT longer, but compared to Tolkien's elves they are just normal dudes with pointed ears.
I definitely think that D&D Elves aren't comparable to Tolkien Elves, but I also think they aren't really comparable to D&D humans in the same way that irl "races" compare. The massively lengthened lifespan and lack of sleep alone should make their mindsets incredibly alien to us. In regards to the spellcasting specifically, I think the training / society argument doesn't really sit right with me is because it's implied cultural lore in a supposedly "setting-nuetral" character decision. Elf society, and it's dedication towards spellcasting teaching, can and will change across settings, but you would still be using the same elf stats from the PHB, and still getting those spellcasting benefits. So when I don't feel like the book is totally clear on what is biological vs. cultural, I most often lean biological as it makes more sense with the setting nuetral approach the PHB is supposed to go after (how successful it is at that is possibly up for debate :P ). As a side note, I tried to find animals that don't sleep, and it seems that all that I could find very specifically don't have brains. From what I found, it seems that sleep is pretty a brain-specific feature and anything with a brain does need regular sleep (although some animals can forego sleep for periods of time when necessary). Which I guess all makes sense, but I didn't know, so that's neat :) . So, going by earth biology, if elves do have brains, their brains are either WILDLY different, or enhanced by magic.
(I really wish I hadn't missed most of the stream, I have so much to say)
The "Broken metaphor" thing. I believe you can break any metaphor if you misuse it hard enough. When you compare two things they have to be different in some ways, otherwise you're just comparing the thing to itself, and where's the point in that?
What matters is that you make conclusions from the aspects of the things being metaphor'ed that are similar, not different. For example, "A lawyer is a shark. A shark is a fish. A lawyer is a fish." The problem is not that shark is a bad metaphor for a lawyer, it's that you're not drawing your conclusions from their similarities. Now to bring it back to fantasy racism vs. real world racism.
For example in a fantasy work of fiction, there could be a mine that only hires dwarves. Why? "Dwarves see in the dark and sense the gold. They are also resistant to the magics that plague the caverns. Wouldn't want you to go missing there, human". That sounds fairly reasonable, I guess the hiring discrimination in the real world is not so ba-- NOPE. No-no-no, in real life people don't have magical powers that affect their work performance, so it's a poor use of the metaphor. Don't draw any IRL conclusions from that piece of worldbuilding, it only makes sense in fiction.
On the other hand, here's another example. "Jeoffrey Fantasyname is an orc. He grew up in the capital of this country. Since childhood he was teased by peers for looking differently. And despite him studying diligently all of his life, his intelligence was always underestimated, because orcs often being nomads aren't commonly seen in places of high education, or cities in general". This (in my opinion) is a good use of metaphor, because it reflects how racism is based on superficial things, generalisation, and lack of knowledge of other cultures. The metaphor doesn't break.
As to Vex and Vax, I don't think metaphor breaks here either. The elves in Syngorn and their dad had no excuse to mistreat them (nor could they have it).
"Their lives are so short compared to ours." - So what? They still deserve respect while they are alive.
"They sleep for so much longer." - Which is a problem... How?
"They have human blood in them, and their ears aren't as long!" - Yup, there it is! As shallow and baseless as in real world.
Since my name was uttered during the stream I am compelled to answer. (Not really, I just feel like it =P)
Here's my take on social mechanics in TTRPGs. When you turn some aspect of life into a game mechanic you always simplify it. And then you can add complexity to the mechanic. But when you do it, you don't bring it closer to life, you just create a more in-depth mechanic. The combat in D&D 5e is pretty complex, it's the pillar of the game with most mechanics attached to it. But the experience is in no way similar to actual fighting you'd do in a historical reenaction, or even LARP. This "combat" is more of a resource management tactics game, and you could apply any flavour to it.
The only pillar of D&D that you don't *really* need to simplify for it to work is social. You're people at the table, you can talk, argue, produce arguments, lie, etc. There are social deduction games where you do just that. But D&D is a ROLE playing game. Your character may be very bad at talking, or very good. You don't play as yourself, so some measure of your character's Charisma would be useful. That's why I think charisma checks are A-OK for a game like D&D, and probably even necessary. Sure, you simplified it to a roll of the dice plus modifier, but the players still have to make reasonable arguments and plausible lies.
Now if you start adding more mechanics to THAT, that's when in my opinion you stray away from actual social roleplay. Spending 3 action points to use "Counter Argument" ability is not the same as actually making a counter argument. And if someone signed up for a game with a focus on social interaction, I suspect this approach will disappoint them. This Griftlands game is cool and I should definitely check it out, but it seems like the social combat in it could easily be reflavoured as "psychic combat" or "magic combat" with no mechanics changed.
Basically, "Social" is not just a theme of the Social pillar of D&D, when all you're really doing is describing the same interactions with different flavour. No, it's what players do at the table. It's fundamentally different from the other pillars in that it's life-like.
small correction: Vex's title is for the Third House of Whitestone, not the First (Mega, do not look it up, check with the mods)
*spoiler*
she becomes part of the First House when she marries Percy so that's her current title, but initially it was the Third
About all elves having innate magic, personally, I don't think that's the case. Of the PHB elf subraces only high elves get a free cantrip. This has to be a wizard cantrip and the spellcasting modifier is intelligence. So it sort of implies that it's a learned ability, not genetic. Kinda like why mountain dwarves are proficient in more weapons and armors.
I'd say only Eladrin are born with magic (because of the fey weirdness).
5e mixes things that really should be part of your character's background into the chosen race. In my opinion, a high elf raised by mountain dwarves would still have their trans and hightened senses, but not magic or elven weapons proficiency. Instead, they'd be proficient in dwarven armor and tools and have expertise in stone-related history checks.
Edit: Also, headcanon, but for Tieflings their Infernal laguage proficiency is 100% something they are born with. And when they are born in human families, the parents are CREEPED OUT by the fact.
@@ghurcbghurcb @ghurcbghurcb
I can see what you're saying, and I agree RE: 5e combing background and race stuff. However, with Elf specifically, while it may not explicitly say it, I do think it's reasonable to assume that there are inherent magical abilities. In the PHB, drow not only get a cantrip, but they get evolving spellcasting. Spellcasting that they specifically don't train, they just get it as they level up (which, tbf, I suppose could be considered training...). I would actually say that wood elves not having spellcasting is more the exception than the rule.
I also consider the descriptive text that describes them as "magical people", which certainly could just be poetic, but I think is a bit more literal in this case.
And, to top it off, they don't sleep. I know it's not described as explicitly magical, it's a "trained meditation" of sorts, but also, they DON'T SLEEP. The only other things in the game that provide that benefit are the robot race and the eldritch magic XD
So all in all, I definitely think it's vague, but all of the factors, to me, point to some amount of inherent magical ability. I think it's understandable to come to the other conclusion, considering it "training" defintely seems to line up more with the way that the other races are constructed, but I still generally lean towards the inherent side of things.
@@MegaphoneMan0 I think elves being described as magical people doesn't necessarily mean the magic is innate. It probably has more to do with how common wizardry is in high elves' society (so much that high elf PCs get a cantrip by default). The main reason why I think so is that high elf spells are exclusively wizard spells, not sorcerer.
Also, Drow and Eladrins' spellcasting trait is Charisma (like warlocks and sorcerers, respectively), but for High elves it's Intelligence.
I never actually thought about the trans as a magical ability. I viewed it as "sleep is just not something elves are capable of, their brains have a different way of resting".
Basically, D&D elves have some great and special abilities, compared to humans, and they live A LOT longer, but compared to Tolkien's elves they are just normal dudes with pointed ears.
I definitely think that D&D Elves aren't comparable to Tolkien Elves, but I also think they aren't really comparable to D&D humans in the same way that irl "races" compare. The massively lengthened lifespan and lack of sleep alone should make their mindsets incredibly alien to us.
In regards to the spellcasting specifically, I think the training / society argument doesn't really sit right with me is because it's implied cultural lore in a supposedly "setting-nuetral" character decision. Elf society, and it's dedication towards spellcasting teaching, can and will change across settings, but you would still be using the same elf stats from the PHB, and still getting those spellcasting benefits.
So when I don't feel like the book is totally clear on what is biological vs. cultural, I most often lean biological as it makes more sense with the setting nuetral approach the PHB is supposed to go after (how successful it is at that is possibly up for debate :P ).
As a side note, I tried to find animals that don't sleep, and it seems that all that I could find very specifically don't have brains. From what I found, it seems that sleep is pretty a brain-specific feature and anything with a brain does need regular sleep (although some animals can forego sleep for periods of time when necessary). Which I guess all makes sense, but I didn't know, so that's neat :) . So, going by earth biology, if elves do have brains, their brains are either WILDLY different, or enhanced by magic.