"Mary" - 13 Week Theatre
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2023
- SUPPORT 13 WEEK THEATRE ON PATREON. / 13week
This week it's Mary Tyler Moore's failed variety show from 1978.
Super Chats and Super Thanks are always welcome. Fair Use is the Law. 
Развлечения
I recall watching about 20 minutes of the debut episode of this program. Even as a 14-year-old I could sense it was going to be a flop.
It was so silly.I was very disappointed by it.
I watched the first episode of “Mary” and no more, though I did tune into “The Mary Tyler Moore Hour” when Dick Van Dyke guest starred.
11:48: Ironically, Michael Keaton's real name is Michael Douglas. He had to change it when he was on the come up in Hollywood because the Screen Actors Guild doesn't allow members who share the same name with another SAG member. And of course, there was already a Michael Douglas (Kirk's son, Streets of San Francisco, etc.) around besides Mike Douglas, the old talk show host.
Yeah I just read it on Google. I didn't know until I read it but it's good that he changed his last name because it would confuse the actor/entertainer
And the Keaton came from the legendary Buster Keaton. Appropriate.
Fun (maybe) fact: Fannie Flagg was a stage name. She was Patricia Neal.
This was excellent! Mary ended up being one of Letterman's funniest guests, I'm glad they stayed friends.
I think they showed a clip from this during a later appearance Mary made on Dave's CBS show.
There was two sitcoms in the 1978-79 season that aired less episodes than Mary:
1. Apple Pie (2 episodes aired, 6 unaired , ABC from 9-23 to 9-30)
2. Co-Ed Fever (1 episode aired, 5 unaired, CBS, 2-4-79)
But Mary had far larger expectations than any new series in that horrible season. Meanwhile, Mary Tyler Moore creator James L Brooks ironically had the biggest success that season...Taxi.
Ironically, two of the best sitcoms of all-time came from that season: Taxi, as you mentioned, and WKRP in Cincinnati.
You said it perfectly, Mary's failure was so spectacular because of the high expectations it had. Disappointment oozed out of every pore in this show. Oddly, I shouldn't have been shocked, Mary Tyler Moore had virtually no live stage experience unlike Carol Burnett who was a Broadway veteran and regular on The Garry Moore Show long before she got her own variety show. Mary just looked stiff and uncomfortable hosting a show and her performance came off as wooden.
"Co-Ed Fever" I believe, was one of three attempts by networks to cash in on the monster box office success of "Animal House". The two other being "Delta House" on ABC (which was the actual follow-up to Animal House) and NBC's "Brothers and Sisters".
@@Quartzquiz333- Mary Tyler Moore started out as a stage dancer she should have been more comfortable doing a variety show than she was.
@@drdarkeny Not every dancer can take the lead. It's amazing she had all the talent to pull off but she just couldn't do it.
I'm curious as to how her Breakfast at Tiffany's musical would have fared on Broadway had David Merrick not closed it in previews. The reviews were dreadful and word was Mary's performance wasn't up to snuff, though she claimed she was ill during those previews.
Apple Pie, although a flop, didn't exactly hurt careers, as Dabney Coleman got the role as the boss on the film 9 to 5 not long after it ended.
And of course, Rue McClanahan was to get her most famous role later where she is most remembered.
Caitlin O'Heaney from Apple Pie was the first Snow White on ABC sitcom The Charmings.
She bailed out for Season 2 and was replaced by Carol Huston, although the rest of the original cast remained. By this point, ABC switched the show to Thursday nights, forcing The Charmings to compete with the likes of The Cosby Show, which at the time was mega popular.
I've always believed that The Mary Tyler Moore Show (1970-1977) was something that could not be duplicated. The writing and the ensemble cast was what made it an iconic show.
MTM put out embarrassments trying to star in another .I tried to watch this show when it originally aired but couldn't make it past episode 1
“Jay Tarseeze”; Jay’s last name is pronounced “Tar-sus.”
My mom babysat him in Baltimore in the ‘40s.
Also, the screenshot of Tom and Jay comes from my YT upload of their only guest appearance on Letterman’s Late Night, September 30, 1982.
for a second I thought this was going to be her second failed variety show/sitcom hybrid "The Mary Tyler Moore Hour" another contender for this program.
Stay tuned...
“…but that’s another story.” :)
I thought it was going to be about her failed mid-eighties sitcom, also called “Mary,” with John Astin and then-unknown Katey Segal.
Man, she had a lot of flop series. On the other hand, not many people get to star in *two* iconic shows plus a Best Picture Oscar-winning movie.
@@zombiedodge1426 I did 2
@@zombiedodge1426 Directed by Robert (Sundance) Redford and co-starring Donald (Hawkeye) Sutherland.
I remember another 13 week Mary Tyler Moore sitcom named Mary during the 1985 season with a good cast including John Aston and Katey Sagal.
I'm still not sure if Mary singing Dead Skunk center stage on CBS at 20.00 on Sunday night was an unbelievably bold, brave act or evidence of reality warping awfulness.
A stunning choice for an opener.
the audience was super dead too 💀
What they didn’t show was that David Letterman interrupted the song to let her know she was bombing. Lol.
Not to mention the song was a minor hit... five years ago, in 1973!
I'm totally here for it.
I thought this episode was going to be about Moore's 1985 Sitcom "Mary" ... but that's another story!
That show was where Katey Segal acted on before she went on to star as Peg Bundy in "Married...with Children."
@@tristansanchez2875 Yes.
@@tristansanchez2875 John Astin was in it as well. He'd subsequently pick up a memorable recurring role on Night Court.
I think he'll eventually do that, and her final sitcom, Annie Maguire.
@@SaskRider2 Plus the drama she was in, New York News.
Lou Grant was an interesting spin-off. It was a drama that spun off from a sitcom.
Many spinoffs have differed in tone from their parent shows (like Fraser compared to Cheers) but Lou Grant and the Brady Bunch Variety Show are the only cases I know where the spinoff was a complete different genre.
@@zombiedodge1426 Frasier and Cheers were both sitcoms, despite any perceived difference in "tone".
I remember thinking this show would bomb when it was being organized, and it was even worse that I expected.
David Letterman was also on Starland Vocal Band's short-lived variety show before Mary. They were the group known for "Afternoon Delight."
He dellivered the humorous "Starland Vocal Band Collapsible News".
I think we now all accept that "Afternoon Delight" is officially so bad it's good.
SVB was hyped up to be the next big group, but never had another hit.Shortly after the variety show,the group broke up.
This is the second "13 Week Theater" episode in recent times to feature a future or past Batman actor. The first of course, being "Rachel Gunn, RN" with Kevin Conroy.
The Duck Factory had Jim Carrey. He didn't play Batman, but he did act in a Batman film.
@@Quartzquiz333 Speaking of which, here's some other possible future "13 Week Theater" episodes featuring Batman film and television alumni:
*The 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider" featuring Val Kilmer as the voice of KITT.
*Any pre-ER project that George Clooney was on such as "Baby Talk" (a show that was loosely based on the film Look Who's Talking that aired on ABC's TGIF block) or the other "E/R", which aired on CBS back in 1984 and featured Elliot Gould.
*"The Last Precinct" with Adam West, which notably aired directly following NBC's telecast of Super Bowl XX in January 1986.
Tying into Batman, there was a film called To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything Julie Newmar - Julie of course played Catwoman.
Patrick Swayze from that film starred in ABC's The Renegades, in which a street gang did undercover work with the LAPD.
Unfortunately The Renegades was never going to succeed with the timeslot, as ABC placed it on Friday nights against David Hasselhoff's already established Knight Rider on NBC and CBS's then mega popular Dallas (the latter being No.1 at this point).
David Letterman played Batman?
Haha, love the cliffhanger. 😂
Part of the reason Mary Tyler Moore jumped at the chance to do a variety show is that she alway thought of herself as a song and dance woman in addition to doing comedy. She did her share of song and dance on the Dick Van Dyke Show. In fact, it was the success of a variety show special that reunited Dick and Mary in 1969 that led CBS to offer Mary her own sitcom, the rest is history. Too bad that Mary, the variety show, is a different kind of history.
she should have done occasional specials, the way burnette and andrews did
@@thewkovacs316 Julie Andrews had her own hour variety show on ABC. As I recall, it was on Wednesday nights, and didn't last long.
@@akrenwinkle brit production, produced by sir lew grade. abc put it on at the wrong hour and opposite cannon
the critics loved it and it garnered tons of emmys
networks are sometimes dumb
@@thewkovacs316 I saw it and didn't like it. I was aware of the lavish production values and, of course, Julie's flawless vocals and spirited dancing, but it left me... I dunno. It was, for want of a better word, sterile. I can't explain it. Her friend Carol's show was emotionally rich. You can't be a success on TV- especially for a woman- unless the public is comfortable with you inside their home. Julie's overzealous laugh and applause tracks didn't help matters.
@akrenwinkle Did you know that Julie Andrews starred in a short-lived sitcom called "Julie" on ABC in 1992? It was produced and directed by her husband Blake Edwards (no surprise there!), it was TERRIBLE and had one of the most unbelievable plots of the 1990s. Julie starred as Julie Carlisle, the host of a popular television variety show series...in 1992 (One critic said this show looked like it came out of a time capsule from 1972!) Her fiance was played by James Farentino. He was a veterinarian who had his practice in Sioux City, Iowa. Julie packs up the Los Angeles production of her show and moves everything to Iowa to be with him. Uh...yeah. She moves production of her hit variety show...in 1992...from L.A...to friggin IOWA! You can see why this only lasted six episodes.
I still always remember the first time I ever saw Michael Keaton or David Letterman was on this show. I remember Keaton doing a monologue on silly fast food names and Letterman being quite clever.
As a fellow Hoosier, I always get surprised seeing David in all the okd stuff BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY. 😮
Hands down, the biggest bomb of the 1978-79 season...and that season had A LOT of bombs (Well, maybe Supertrain was bigger, but Mary was the biggest bomb from the fall line-up.)
David Letterman would later get hired by NBC for a daytime talk show...but that's another story...
Did NBC have the most bombs that season?
David Letterman's daytime talkshow would then be reduced in airtime to make room for Texas, a new soap opera. (Another World was returned from 90 minutes to 60). Medical soap The Doctors was moved from 2pm to 12.30pm, which put it against Ryan's Hope and Search for Tomorrow, not to mention NBC affiliates tended to not clear any network programmes at the noon hour in favour of local news or syndicated shows. (Search then took the 12.30pm slot after it moved to NBC, which saw the Doctors move to noon where it faced Family Feud (then hosted by Richard Dawson) and The Young And The Restless, not to mention affiliate preemptions)
Texas never found a audience, as it was against Guiding Light and General Hospital, then at their peak in the same 3pm Eastern timeslot. In a desperate attempt to lift ratings, Texas moved to 11am, pushing Wheel of Fortune (which had that 11am slot) to 10.30am and forcing Blockbusters and Battlestars to be cancelled.
Unfortunately Texas badly flopped at 11am, not even able to compete with The Price Is Right. Wheel of Fortune before Texas replaced it at 11am actually was cutting into TPIR's ratings.
So NBC canned Texas and The Doctors on 31st December 1982, replacing them with Just Men, Hit Man and Sale of The Century. Only Sale did well out of those.
NBC wouldn't try another soap in the 3pm slot again until Santa Barbara in July 1984. (There was Generations, which aired at either noon or 12.30pm, but that didn't find much of an audience, as did Sunset Beach despite who was behind that - not to mention affiliates scheduled Sunset all over the place - WTMJ in Milwaukee aired it at 4am, WESH in Orlando at 2am, and WEEK TV in Peoria at 10am. KPNX in Phoenix wouldn't pick it up altogether and the NBC affiliates in Houston and Detroit refused to clear it, so Sunset aired on the UPN affiliates in those cities).
@victorhiggins9636 Yes, by design. This was the first season of Fred Silverman's reign at NBC. He ordered a bunch of shows knowing many wouldn't succeed.
@@andrewbarton2590“Texas” flopped in the US but it was a *huge* hit in Canada. In Newfoundland, the much-loved “Wonderful Grand Band” TV show (a predecessor to “Codco,” which in turn birthed “This Hour has 22 Minutes”) even featured a parody called “Tacky.”
One of the factors that may have also worked against Texas in the US besides timeslot (Santa Barbara, Passions and Sunset Beach had the same problem) was that it premiered with hour-long episodes from the start - a huge commitment for viewers especially 5 times a week.
If you look at most of the other soaps, they were 15\30 minutes long before expanding later as soon as they were establishing an audience, rather than premiering at one hour from the start.
B&B has never expanded, primarily because the 30 minute format is lucrative to international audiences. That and the Bells being against it.
Hey, narrator, you're absolutely correct. Horrible comes to mind, just plan terrible, and I was born in '73 so I wouldn't remember this mess.
9:43- "Michael Keaton was given the option of starving- or becoming a part of Mary's next TV series.
He's still making up his mind, but he's *very* hungry."
Minor point: Late Night With David Letterman didn't debut in 1981, it was announced in November of that year but first aired in February of 1982. Before that, Dave and Merrill Markoe worked together on their short lived morning talkshow that ran for a few months in late 1980.
And as I mentioned, Letterman's show was reduced in length as was Another World to allow Texas to launch.
Sadly, the latter show had an uphill battle from the start due to facing General Hospital and Guiding Light.
Good God, I never realized how bad this was. Those clips stunk up my house. ("Dead Skunk"? Really?) I also never realized that the last season of the MTM Show had sunk below the Top 20; one never hears of this when that famous old show is discussed. It's always, "They quit while on top," etc. The "Lou Grant" show was a wise change of direction for an old favorite character; I remember that being a premier show that won awards. I remember all the chatter about "Buffalo Bill"! - media critics were basically BEGGING people to watch it. They didn't. A couple years later the begging worked for "Cheers", which, given the Season 1 numbers, never should have made it, but, as you say, late 70s/early 80s was a weird time for network TV: a lot of big gambles upfront, with very little on the back-end. So some shows stuck around. What SHOCKS me is that Mary tried the variety thing AGAIN! Wow, learned a lot from this succinct, well-made vid. Thanks!
Getting Mary Tyler Moore to sing "dead skunk in the middle of the road" three times in one verse is...a dadaist masterpiece (sarcasm). Poor Mary.
It was really embarrassing because every few years she would come up with a sub par show that somehow had the name “Mary” in it.
She did have one sitcom called "Annie McGuire," as I recall. It was a sad affair.
@@akrenwinkle A shame she never knew when to stop.
@@travisjames3517 In an 80s (if I recall right) interview, she said she only felt alive when working. I believe it, and think for decades she didn't have a full week off. She always felt compelled to do something, but without an inner sense of quality, and nobody, post-Grant TInker- to steer her away from bad material.
@akrenwinkle Thank you for reminding me of Annie McGuire. I completely forgot that one!
Annie McGuire was one of those oh-so-trendy "dramedies" they were doing in the late 80s (I never cared for most of them.) Hooperman, Doogie Howser M.D., The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd and Frank's Place are other examples from that period. Not only did the Writer's Guild Strike of 1988 delay production for five months and the start of the season by one month, it also inhibited promotion of the show. Didn't help that it competed against hits Unsolved Mysteries on NBC and Head of the Class on ABC.
@@Quartzquiz333 I remember it was on in 1988, a VERY difficult year of my life. I watched it thinking it might cheer me up. After all, Mary was in it. Well, there's no other way to describe "Annie Maguire" but sad.
You changed how you transitioned from the first try (Mary in this case) to the second one (The Mary Tyler Moore Show) - it's usually a bit harsher LOL
Great research as always. A shame she couldn’t find success at the same level again on TV. I remember this and nearly all your 13 week shows.
It looked like she might become a major movie star after the Best Picture Oscar winner "Ordinary People," but subsequent film projects were underwhelming, to say the least. She did get good reviews for David O. Russell's "Flirting With Disaster" in 1995.
She could have been cast against type in a dramatic show.I could have seen her as Jessica Fletcher in Murder She Wrote.
The neat coda about _The Carol Burnett Show_ is that CBS eventually fielded a show by that name in 1991-92, thus making something called _The Carol Burnett Show_ eligible for _13 Week Theatre._ Bigenerational Divide might have been a nuisance on _Mary,_ but by '91 _Burnett,_ BD outright crossed out Harvey Korman's name and...that's another story.
Also, mild nitpick, _Late Night with David Letterman_ replaced _Tomorrow_ in 1982. The show was announced in 1981, though.
The 1990s Carol Burnett Show was a follow-up of sorts to her two season NBC show Carol & Company (Think Carol Burnett meets The Tracey Ullman Show). While sketch comedy shows were hot at the time, old-time variety wasn't, hence the quick cancelation of Carol's second variety show.
I really want an episode about the “V” weekly series - not the reboot with Elizabeth Mitchell, but the NBC mid-eighties show - which attempted to reverse the outcome of two wildly successful miniseries and had a much lower budget.
the v series was a giant mistake
Here lies Robert Englund, he was on V.
@thewkovacs316 the ones I remember were when they made an evil growling clone of the half human half alien woman, and one where Diana tells an elderly human informant about her fate:
"You said I'd see my husband for Christmas dinner!"
"Yes. *Our* Christmas dinner."
(I think these might have been the same episode, in fact.)
@@SirPumpkinSlice I knew him as "Willie" before Freddy Kruger.
Also, your wording had me scared he'd died. (Nope, still very much with us.)
@@zombiedodge1426Faye Grant got to sing in that Christmas Episode of V. So awful!!
Funny how they pretty much glossed over this chapter in the recent (and very moving) MTM documentary on HBO.
"Nah, you don't want to hear about *THAT* show, do you?" 😉
I remember this, as a 10 year old, it was pretty good, but no Supertrain!!!
Mary found her place in Ordinary People and i have been saying "take the damn picture Connie" at every family gathering ever since!
"It was pretty good, but no Supertrain!!!"
😂😂😂
That might be the best critique I've seen on this channel!
@@Quartzquiz333 many thanks!
I have 2 tv shows to suggest. Both starred Robert Loggia. T.H.E. Cat (1966-67) and Mancuso FBI (1989-1990)
are there any epis of the cat in existence
i really want to see at least one
all i have ever seen are the opening credits
@@thewkovacs316 I searched, and yes there are a couple. One was even colorized.
Now I'm thinking of another show from that time that became a cult classic, Honey West.
@@thewkovacs316 I actually have a full (bootleg) set on dvd i got from someone online. Quality is not the best but it is totally watchable. it even has the unaired longer pilot episode.
But then for Mary, just over the horizon was a little movie called "Ordinary People" that showed she was far from over in Hollywood!!
Great video! This was the best way to experience Mary's variety show.
Being from Indiana I knew at that time who David Letterman was, but only vaguely. I believe my first time hearing him tell about himself was in a Tom Snyder interview circa 1977.
I am so excited
My god, what was CBS thinking?
11:23: That intro with the camera zooming into the World Trade Center I don't think, has aged particularly well post fall 2001, if you catch my drift.
I only just stumbled across this channel thanks to the algorithm and have already binged it all. This is superb content; you deserve to be proud of what you've done here.
As far as the inevitable "you should do this" goes, Pan Am and The Playboy Club are both obvious choices. They may have both been Mad Men knockoffs, but at least Pan Am was able to air all its episodes and even picked up a following overseas. The Playboy Club, meanwhile, sputtered and died after only three episodes...
Pan Am also notably co-starred a then unknown (at least as far as the United States is concerned) Margot Robbie as a flight attendant. CBS' Vegas with Dennis Quaid and Michael Chiklis seemed to be that network's own attempt at cashing in on Mad Men with the 1960s retro setting.
While I started watching your great video to relive long-forgotten shows, I am more and more interested in the history of television you portray. I lived through 1978 without realizing what a watershed year it was. It explains so much about TV for the next few years and probably gave you fodder for half your posts.
Please keep it up.
Here's some facts about the 1978-79 season I know will fascinate you:
1) A staggering fifty-four out of 114 shows were canceled that season. It could have easily been fifty-five had NBC and Fred Silverman not been using McLean Stevenson as a negotiation tool against Johnny Carson and canceled Hello Larry.
2) Speaking of NBC and Silverman twenty-one of those canceled shows came from The Peacock Network alone...including ten out of the bottom fourteen shows in the ratings and the bottom seven overall!
3) Twenty of the shows NBC canceled lasted one season or less. Only Joe & Valerie (a show I don't remember at all) had been on longer at two seasons.
4) Only four of NBC's freshmen shows were renewed for a second season: Diff'rent Strokes, BJ and the Bear, Mrs Columbo and *shudders* Hello Larry.
5) NBC's highest rated show was Little House on the Prairie at number fourteen, its only show in the Top Twenty.
Wow, this really turned into a lecture on how inept NBC was at the time. No wonder Johnny Carson joked that NBC stood for "Nine Bombs Canceled".
Ref Mrs Columbo, that got a heck of a retooling when the viewers agreed with what Peter Falk thought of it (i.e not much)
They had Kate Mulgrew's character written as married to another Columbo in an attempt to distinguish it from the Falk character, before having her revert to her maiden name of Callahan. The series changed title too.
The series seems to be forgotten since. It doesn't seem to get reruns as the original Columbo does.
Thankfully for Kate Mulgrew and Don Stroud - it didn't hurt their careers, as he later got roles in the Buddy Holly Story and a James Bond film, while she later got Star Trek Voyager.
@andrewbarton2590 Oh brother, I know all about the mess that was Kate Columbo. I was trying to avoid talking about it, but since you brought it up...🙄
That show ran parts of two seasons, thirteen episodes total. It had FOUR titles (FOUR!) in that very short run: Mrs. Columbo, Kate Columbo, Kate the Detective and Kate Loves a Mystery! The producers of the original Columbo and Peter Falk did not approve of the show at all. Like you said, it was retooled with Kate getting a divorce from Columbo and later changing the character to being someone who was NEVER married to Columbo! The real Lieutenant even referenced on one his later shows saying "A woman's been going round pretending to be my wife, but it isn't her."
I would love for Pab to discuss this show, even though it ran two seasons (It WAS only thirteen episodes!) because of how ridiculous the whole thing was and how desperate Fred Silverman was at the time for a hit.
@@Quartzquiz333 Not so much inept as cyclical. ABC was the throwaway network for a long time and only started getting respect in the late 60s - 1970s. It had a large number of cancelations and often moved shows several times in one season. Its foundation was the Movies of the Week and a solid block on Fridays.
Talented cast but this show DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE
Thanks again for another outstanding video-I love the way you trace the careers of the crew and cast before and after the featured series.
Do you remember a show called Masquerade. It had a cool premise. Regular people were hired as spies using their actual talents. So if they needed an electrician to spy, they got a real electrician at teaching him how to spy. I liked the show, but it got canceled after one season.
Mary Tyler Moore had more flops than Tim Conway.
Mary followed by The Mary Tyler Moore Comedy hour, sitcoms Mary and Annie McGuire and New York News.
Also, during the last season of The Mary Tyler Moore show 😅the ratings had placed her in 39th place with a 19.2 rating. The seventh and last season of The Mary Tyler Moore show was basically cancelled during the 1976-77 season.
Thankfully this show ended and Moore was available to do the Best Picture Oscar Winner Ordinary People in 1980 and being Oscar nominated herself as Best Actress.
As they say in the wrestling business, I think Mary was a “mark for herself” in this moment. Maybe a little high on her own fame-too much so to realize that variety shows were on the way out by 1978.
She tried again in mid-season with "THE MARY TYLER MOORE HOUR". That lasted 11 episodes- and, as "Mary McKinnon", tried being a 'female Jack Benny', with backstage intrigue and confrontations with her cast {including Michael Keaton}. It didn't quite work, either.
An episode of this turned up in my feed recently. I had been watching Letterman and maybe that is why.
I thought it was funny. I love schizophrenic entertainment
The assumption behind this show was what was more successful than Mary- more Mary (pun in there somewhere). A lot more and while fans loved her eponymous show- it’s ok not great, I am not sure they believed she could do everything including comedy, drama, singing and dancing and multiple characters.
Carol can do all of that extremely well, but she’s an American icon
She just came off a successful iconic show a year prior. Why didn't she just relax and carefully weigh other options? Just curious.
Restlessness is a terrible thing.
Ed Asner and Gavin MacLeod did shows right after Mary Tyler Moore was canceled and did just fine. Mary just didn't find the right vehicle for herself.
@blackamerican40 I think she should have done NOTHING instead of this. I thought it was bad when it first aired, looking at these clips, it's just horrific.
@@PabSungenisAnd Lucy had that same problem and wound up embarrassing herself with "Life with Lucy", which is one of your best 13 Week Theatre episodes.
Ted Knight had the same problem at first with The Ted Knight Show which came out later in the spring of 1978. But then came Too Close For Comfort and he had a success despite ABC's handling of it.
Remember Cavemen. A series based on a geico ad. That's gotta have an interesting backstory.
Variety shows were nearly dead by 1978. There’s no way that MTM could have matched the Carol Burnett Show.
I actually watched an episode of this back in the day, and didn't think it was very good. That was the first I'd ever heard of David Letterman. Tom Patchett and Jay Tarses had earlier created "The Tony Randall Show" (1976-1978).
Interestingly 2 of the cast of The Tony Randall Show later appeared in Knots Landing- Zane Lasky and Penny Peyser.
Tony Randall first aired on ABC, but was pitted against Hawaii Five-O, then ranked in the Top 20. I believe it had Barney Miller as a lead in and couldn't hold the audience.
So CBS picked it up. Unfortunately Tony Randall faced The Love Boat. A switch to a earlier timeslot saw him against the final season of Bionic Woman (now on NBC) and that was it.
Seeing how SNL is a show from the 70s, and still on the air today, Carroll Burnett could've still been on the air today.
SNL has not been funny in years.Its ratings are moribund and I expect it might end soon.That Christmas sketch they did was disgusting.
I'd love to see an episode about Lottery! (1983). I have very fond memories of it, but I think I may be the only one who does.
I remember that show!
Ok that Carmen Meringue bit was pretty funny.
Wow, different opinions. I thought it was a one joke sketch, and the one joke wasn't that great.
I had forgotten the Late Night opening with a tracking shot flying into the World Trade Centre and exiting out the other side. Jeeezzze that hurts…
You know your show is in trouble when OG Battlestar was stealing all your viewers.
Yes! The king and only king of late night!
I hear a hint that the 1976 Norman Lear sitcom "All's Fair" might be reviewed? This was around the time Lear's shows started to flop (Hot L Baltimore, Nancy Walker Show, All's Fair, The Dumplings, All That Glitters, A Year at the Top, The Baxters, Hanging In). Oh I want to see these programs badly, but episodes are probably lost or unattainable to the public, else, more Lear-based episodes of 13 Week Theatre!
That show All’s fair actually had a good cast, I mean Bernadette peters and Richard Crenna? And it was highly liked by television critics. My feeling is is that a lot of Americans did not like relationships between people with huge age differences even if they were legally able to date
I’ve seen several episodes of all’s fair on RUclips
Happy 101st Birthday Norman Lear!!!!!!
There are a few episodes of All's Fair around. The other Norman Lear shows...not so much, and I would LOVE to see Hot L Baltimore, The Dumplings and All That Glitters talked about, as well as In The Beginning and Apple Pie.
Bernadette Peters just might be my all-time favorite Broadway actress but, like Tammy Grimes, wasn't a good fit for television...and only OK in movies. Great live stage presence, not so great film presence.
@@michaelrochester48 also at that time the typical Lear "conservative vs liberal" theme was tiresome by 1976. Maude, Good Times and All in the Family were becoming "watered down" from their bold, topical comedy- drama and turning into typical sitcoms (although the latter 2 had a few powerful epusodes in 1977-78 season). And I believe Bernadette was a mismatch for sitcoms (great Broadway entertainer though).
@@teresapflaumer5717You're proof that great minds think alike. 😉
Late Night w/David Letterman didn't start until 1982. He'd previously done a daytime show for a few months in 1980.
...but that's another story...
I love your series! Do you remember the 'San Pedro Beach Bums'?
i think ms moore suffered from the same malady that lucy did
both became powerful producers, but felt the need to be on tv every week, thinking that if they werent, people would forget about them
wasnt true
and both were at a place when they could pick and choose projects
lucy's problem was her husband....a total grifter who ended up forcing her to sell off her studio
mary should have listened to her husband
after starring in ordinary people to both critical and audience acclaim....she should have been extremely choosy over her projects
but she still had this need to appear weekly on the small screen...
dont really get it
btw, dave had already moved out west and was killing at the comedy store and other venues when he got cast
burnette was smart....she got out close to the top and then did get to pick and choose her projects...and no one has forgotten her
Lucille Ball didn't have five tv shows that flopped, Mary did. I do agree that Lucy' second husband was a grifter and forced her to do her only flop tv series Life With Lucy. He just wanted the money. He was not good for her career after Heres Lucy ended in 1974 when she was 63 years old.
This show was painful! That being said, it wasn't because of a lack of talent. But let's be honest, I think any show Mary Tyler Moore did after The Mary Tyler Moore Show was going to be a letdown because you can't beat perfection.
It was bizarre.I think MTM should have gone another way,drama.I could have seen her as Jessica Fletcher in Murder She Wrote.This show might not have gone past pilot when variety shows were in their heyday.
She certainly could have done it. She was amazing in Ordinary People.
She was in other dramatic roles such as Change of Habit &
First You Cry,the latter got her an Emmy nomination.
You should do a video on the rise and fall and attempted resurrections of the variety show format
ABC tried it with Dolly Parton in the mid-eighties. It was a huge flop, though it did give us the legendary quote "it costs a lot of money to make me look this cheap."
When Fred Silverman tried to develop a variety show shortly after he became the president of NBC, one programming executive tried to point out, "Come on, Fred, variety is dead."
"I'll tell you EXACTLY how long variety is dead for!", he roared.
"How long?", the unknown programmer asked softly.
"It's dead until the next hit variety show is on the air!!!", Silverman insisted.
He couldn't revive it with "PRESENTING SUSAN ANTON" in the summer of 1979........nor could he do much with "PINK LADY {& JEFF}" and "THE BIG SHOW" in 1980. Fred *did* have some success with "BARBARA MANDELL AND THE MANDRELL SISTERS" in the fall of 1980 (it lasted two seasons; by the time it ended, Fred was no longer with NBC)......and his attempt to bring Marie Osmond back in her own variety show in late 1980 was also short-lived.
@@fromthesidelines Thanks. It seems like Silverman wasn't the only one who thought it wasn't dead either. The irony is, sometimes these little watched shows end up having iconic time casuals in music, like when the Jackson 5 or Bette Midler guested on the Cher Show, or when Dolly Parton had her variety show and she did duets with icons of the 80s, or even getting to hear Florence Henderson's amazing singing voice. I'm glad they weren't junked
In LA waiting.....will I be first to watch?
On a very special episode of 13 Day Theater 😂
Gee, they couldn't even be bothered to come up with a joke for Keaton on that last episode?
Seeing Michael Keaton here, it's a bit hard to predict that less than 10 or so years later, he would become the first modern cinematic Batman. When he was first cast, people actually lost their minds because up until that point, Michael Keaton was primarily thought of as a quirky comedic actor. They quite understandably, were concerned that it was going to be a campy farce like the 1960s TV series with Adam West. This is despite the fact that Keaton had recently done a decidedly a more dramatic film called Clean and Sober, where he played a cocaine addict. So obviously, it wasn't like prior to Batman, he was incapable of taking on darker, more serious roles.
I agree! I remember when Keaton was announced to be Batman and I thought this movie would bomb! This was the guy who was in "Mr. Mom" and other light comedy roles and I didn't think he could pull it off. Thankfully, he proved us wrong and even got a call back in the Flash film (even though that film is another mess altogether).
@@MegaMagicdog it was beetlejuice that led burton to cast him as batman
Knew I'd see the promo I uploaded in this video somewhere!
Thank you for doing so!
The creepiest part is how someone thought it would be good idea to gice Mary Tyler Moore Carol Burnett's haircut.
How after this flop she could sign-on for another variety show just beggars belief, especially one that played off of this one thus becoming semi-autobiographical. Oh, one thing, you referred to her as Tyler Moore, but it would be correct to refer to her just as Moore, as Tyler is her middle name. She had intended to go by the name Mary Moore but there were several other Mary Moores already registered with SAG, hence the use of her middle name.
I went to college with a Mary Moore. Interestingly she has a brother named Michael Moore.
Hey Pab, have you ever taken a look at Glitter, an Aaron Spelling joint from 1984?
If we're going to talk about how this show in part, failed because come 1978, variety shows were dying out, we need to ask and understand how it got to that point to begin with. I would say that it has more to do with variety shows failing if they don't have the right host to carry a show. I don't know if Mary Tyler Moore is somebody who I would imagine as a perfect variety show host when compared to say, Carol Burnett.
Mary was always more of an actress who did comedy, but she wasn't really a comedienne like Carol or an actual musical talent like Sonny and Cher or Donny and Marie Osmond. I mean if you look at her sitcom, Mary from the best of my recollection or knowledge, was set up to be the straight woman. The people that she surrounded herself with like Betty White, Ted Knight, Valerie Harper, Cloris Leachman, etc. were meant to be the "funny" or more "showy" characters.
You need to do one about The MTM Hour,a feeble attempt to copy Jack Benny's show.The opening sequence to Mary was the best part of the show.
id love to go back in time to when they were making this show and go up to Michael Keaton and say "Hi Batman." and then walk away.
Ok, the carmen miranda news bit is dumb as hell and I love it.
I think part of it is the classic Letterman delivery on "Tico, Tico."
The Carmen Miranda bit looks more like Monty Python.
Loved this. But her name is Moore, not Tyler Moore. Tyler was her middle name not a surname
Can you please cover the disasters that was The Playboy Club and Heathers? Your awesome.
i'd like to see an episode on the san pedro beach bums
Requests! ''Partners In Crime"
"Double Trouble"
"Dolly"
Additionally I hated Mary Tyler Moore’s shorter hairstyle.
Very true, she looked like she aged ten years in one!
I thought it was cute but was probably a bad idea
Sadly she had lived with diabetes for years by this point so mainly kept her hair shorter or used wigs due to thinning hair.
Now that Turn-On's one aired episode (and the unaired second episode) has been unearthed, any chance of you covering that show?
I wonder if Jay Tarses and James Hampton both being involved with this show had anything to do with them both featuring in the original TEEN WOLF seven years later.
I know this may sound controversial, but MTM did not do comedy well despite being on two hit sitcoms. She did well when playing off other characters but by herself, her comic timing was all wrong. The MTM show was successful because of her and her supporting cast. Without that, the show would have failed miserably and you can see these supporting characters were more bit players. Mary wanted to be Carol Burnett who could do comedy with or without a strong supporting cast
Fascinating to hear about Carol Burnett's gaping hole.
Please do an episode on the short-lived CBS animated series Galaxy high school that was an attempt to make the anime Urusei Yatsura more American friendly
I loved the Mary Tyler Moore Show, but I had low hopes for this show. When I saw it, I thought it was bad (I was 17). Watching this, my jaw dropped at how HORRIFIC the entire show is. Every skit is just boring and embarrassing to watch. I've seen elementary students do funnier stuff than this!
I noticed that the intro for the show was left off the video, so I asked Pab if he thought it was too cheesy to put in his review. He said it was. Judge for yourself:
ruclips.net/video/5MazkTtnhhI/видео.html
I love Mary but in this case she was attempting TRIPLE DIPPING. Remember, she was an EVENT on the Dick Van Dyke show. A LEGEND on her own show. Then to try this came off as real thirsty. Mary should have followed Carol's lead here.
It all seems really...awkward.
Mary having 2 big hits (Dick van Dyke Show and MTM Show) is unusual. Three hits just never happens.
One of MTM's co-stars pulled it off: Betty White with MTM, The Golden Girls and Hot in Cleveland.
Althogh Variety format was dying, the next year, Barbara Mandrell and the Mandrell sister did have a fair amount of success, until Babrara had to quit the show because her doctor said it was too much strain on her throat.
That was one of the very few successful shows to emerge from Fred Silverman's tenure at NBC, along with Diff'rent Strokes and its spinoff The Facts of Life. Wasn't nearly enough to save his job (though some shows he green-lighted became hits *after* he was fired).
I recall NBC brought Barbara Mandrell into Sunset Beach midway - as they were desperate for ratings.
She joined as Sunset ditched the filmic look it had (it was on videotape, but a look was added to make it look film) and switched to videotape.
i think the gaping hole was in the saturday night schedule, not sunday night.
No. Carol had moved from Saturday to Sunday that season.
so it was - i stand corrected, thanks. great vid, by the way. just subscribed.
Can you talk about The Mary Tyler Moore Hour next?
I believe that's been hinted at...
Working on it now.
so this is what pushed Bruce Wayne over the edge to become Batman. Dave Letterman would have made a great Two Face.
mary and her producers had an eye for talent...look at the cast
the problem is....nothing else worked
You'd be interested in knowing that Battlestar Galactica beat Mary soundly in the ratings, showing that a sci-fi show could succeed when it's shown on Sunday nights when the family is home. After Mary was quickly canceled CBS moved All in the Family and Alice back an hour to counterprogram against Battlestar Galactica, causing it plummet in the ratings. CBS would go on to having one of the strongest tv lineups in history next season with its Sunday block of 60 Minutes, Archie Bunker's Place, One Day at a Time, Alice, The Jeffersons and Trapper John, M.D.
Yes, MTM Productions was great at finding talent. In 1974 they had Jack Elam starring with a young Gary Busey and Mark Hamill in The Texas Wheelers...but that's another story Pab can discuss at a later date.
To add, ABC then moved Mork and Mindy from Thursday nights where it was beating the Waltons to fill the slot left by Battlestar Galactica.
Unfortunately it failed there, and ABC started meddling with M&M, trying to chase younger viewers for one, hence the theme going disco and Elizabeth Kerr and Conrad Janis dropped for being too old.
That move backfired, hence ABC hastily bringing back Janis and Kerr for the next season and returning the show back to Thursday nights.
Pam Dawber of course later found herself in My Sister Sam, also a victim of network meddling.
CBS for the second season pulled the show from the cosy slot it had between Kate and Allie and Newhart on Monday night. Instead My Sister Sam was up against The Facts of Life on Saturday nights and failed there big time.
CBS pulled the show from Saturday, with My Sister Sam resurfacing on Tuesday nights. Unfortunately it was against Who's The Boss? instead. CBS pulled it again, with the rest of the second season unaired by CBS, although the unaired episodes were broadcast on USA Network when they reran the show.
Nowadays My Sister Sam tends to be mainly known primarily because it featured Rebecca Schaefer before her tragic murder.
@@andrewbarton2590 ty....didnt know any of this
I wonder how Mary compares to the Mary Tyler Moore Hour. A series I've seen in full only because I found every episode with commercials.
I never saw the MTM show but I have seen her flop hour show.
Boy, that show was bad
Mary singing "Dead Skunk" was proof!
@@teresapflaumer5717I saw that and asked "Oh Mary...what happened to your dignity?!"
One suggestion from that horrible 1978/79 season, “struck by lightning” with Jack Elam. I watched it to just be astounded by the horrible acting and terrible script writing. I couldn’t believe that was okayed for a series. It was absolutely one of the worst TV series I’ve ever seen. Jack Elam must’ve been desperate for work
Actually, Struck by Lightning came out in 1979-80. It only lasted three episodes in the fall of '79, so that mistake is excused.