🧡 I wish System76 good luck, for a relatively smol team they already did a good job with Cosmic. I also hope they will get HDR and VRR sorted out, unlike certain other desktop.
I'm quite happy with kde but I'll give cosmic a try when it's ready for sure. I've always been a fan of system 76 and think they've done an amazing job in a short time
VMs have limited graphics hardware support in the press ISO. Hence the VM's graphics driver crashing the compositor. There were some updates recently to improve compositor support for VMs. Sound and network settings pages haven't been implemented yet. Wasn't necessary for the first alpha because they're provided by applets currently. You can press PrintScrn or type screenshot in the launcher to take a screenshot.
I tried COSMIC in a Fedora Atomic distro a few months ago, and I was genuinely blown away at how awesome it is (aside from the pre-alpha bugs, obviously). You get: - good defaults (in my opinion) - tons of features from both _real_ tiling window managers and floating window managers without having to re-learn how to use your DE - powerful customization capability; not just in how it _looks_ , but also how it _behaves_ - in addition to the powerful customization, you get *mostly* intuitive ways to configure the customization I'm extremely appreciative of the people that worked on COSMIC. Once COSMIC is out of alpha, I genuinely think this is going to be my ideal DE.
@@nathanl2966 On current Pop!_OS (GNOME with custom extensions), you can auto-hide the dock so only the top bar stays visible at all times; I'd imagine you can do the same on COSMIC but we'll have to see.
@@nathanl2966 See the dock and panel settings pages. The dock is a second panel, and it can be disabled. Both panels can be configured with any arrangement of applets, on any side of the display.
🧡 Excited about any innovation in the linux desktop space. Tiling looks really promising! I love tiling for dev but it can be a hassle to run a full tiling desktop like hyprland for more casual desktop use, especially gaming so having a more traditional floating window desktop that does support proper dynamic tiling sounds really interesting.
Exactly, I'm of the same opinion. as much as I like fiddling with my desktop it wastes too much time. I just want something that works for me out of the box and looks good where I can get working with minor or no customization beyond a wallpaper and theme at all and still be satisfied. It's always a pain setting up a quick way to change sound internet and bluetooth settings in those tiling managers.
this (plus first class tiling) is what kept me using sway. If I can have those without the need of manually configuring everything I'll happily ditch wms
Being a fellow UXD I'd say you would want redundancy of sound options and others in both places, panel and settings, as the placement should be based on user intent more than system elegance
they have the design they want to do it but I think the amount of work required makes many of the features unfeasible for the alpha release The audio setting was there previously, but all the controls were TODOs it'll come soon enough, I hope
Sounds more like a Linux tinker’s thoughts. Doubling up on settings and options creates clutter and user disorientation. Simple interfaces are easy for new users to adapt to. Lots of choices will overwhelm users. They may be in the right place to find something because it makes sense for that option to be there, but more than likely the average user is just going to feel intimidated by all the options everywhere. This leads to little adoption by anyone other than the tech enthusiast… because it is poor UX. This is generally why Linux is still not adopted by the average home user. To the enthusiast it is a desired feature to have all the options and configurations at your fingertips at all times. To the average user, it is a nightmare. You might as well tell them to open up the terminal at that point. Notice something about Android, MacOS, iOS, ChromeOS? They all try not to overwhelm the user with setting repeated everywhere. Windows is a mess, but it has been the default for so long people put up with it. Though in my experience the average user on Windows is afraid to go into settings, where as on the other OSs mentioned, I have never seen that being a thing to fear for basic users.
I know this was 3days ago but mmstick (Cosmic Dev) made a comment and he confirmed that sound settings will be added they're just not yet fully implemented for alpha.
I don't see myself personally using Cosmic any time soon, but I really appreciate how much work they've put into it, how far it's come, and how promising it's looking. Good job System76!
Regarding the UI customizability, one of their key designers (or maybe even the CEO) said in a presentation that if you don't have the ability to make your UI ugly, then you don't have the ability to make it beautiful either. Additionally, they are open for distributions to modify and configure a lot of how COSMIC can look, unlike in GNOME's case where you would have to at least write a GNOME shell extension or even patch the entire DE in order to customize it as much as the distributions may need (like in Pop OS's case before).
This cracks me up. Windows 1.0 was a tiling window manager and everyone hated it, so they changed it to overlapping windows. Now Linux is trending toward tiling window managers.
I would say most people are using overlapping windows most of the time. Some users though have use for tiling. Usually work related or repetitive tasks. Tiled windows are still not the default for Jerry across the street.
I think you can also have like a preferred setup where it tiles automatically to your saved setup if the respective apps are Openend, which would be awesome for work setup on a big monitor. Like IDE in the middle in full 16:9, left upper side teams, left lower side mails/notes or whatever, right side browser... But in my company we will stick to Windows until I retire I assume, but a man can dream, right?
we've used tiling in linux for decades. it's torture to move to a floating setup when you have spent so long using a keyboard to get work done. not sure people hating windows tiling is representative of the success of tiling for linux...most linux users simply hate(d) windows...tiling or not :)
the great thing here is that it's both. all they need to do is set a preset system for which workspace would be tiled and which wouldn't along with the tiling pattern and even automatically tiling a certain set of open apps in a specific way. then it would be close to perfection.
I dont think Linux is trending towards it. The "main distros" will still have floating windows by default for many many years. Maybe they have autotiling as a option but it will not be default.
These only happened in a virtual machine since it doesn't have full graphics acceleration support. There were some patches yesterday to the compositor to default to software rendering for virtual machines that should improve this.
In an interview on the System76 podcast the designer said that in order to have a feature rich theming engine that enables users to create beautiful themes, the engine will need to be able to create the ugliest themes imaginable. 😊
🧡 Super excited here. I've been playing with the Fedora Cosmic SIG for a while. It's so responsive. I'm looking forward to a stable production release and plan to shitch over.
I am very excited for cosmics desktop. It is a breath of fresh air compared to other DE's. Gnome is Unimaginative and KDE breaks for no apparent reason. From the looks of what is currently in alpha they put a lot of thought into this, and boy do they seem to be delivering something amazing. Cannot wait for the full release of cosmic desktop and how it will fair in other distros.
🧡 Very excited to check this out, finally a new interface in the linux world, its been a while! I love the tiling with the tabs (one of the few things I miss from my windows days is a program called Groupy that allowed you to have all your windows open tabbed or "grouped" - REALLY miss that!). I wonder how extensive the theming will be (i.e. gnome extension for theming gtk apps). The "launcher" looks similar to something like Ulauncher or Krunner with the search, math, google etc configurations built in. Considering they started from scratch, its looking really good. I haven't run POP in years, once I moved on to Arch with window manager or Arch+KDE/Gnome it was hard to switch back to the Ubuntu package manager and back end, but definitely going to check out the alpha later this ween when its released. Thanks for the walk through.
The past DEs that would start with GNOME as the baseline would cause issues with GNOME settings when adjusting them for the other desktop. This has been less of an issue, but each update of GTK is created with GNOME in mind and it takes some time for all other desktops to add support. So, System76 has avoided this situation by using a whole new toolkit, but adding theming support for GTK is a great way to have a consistent look across the apps. I am happy with the progress of Cosmic and hope to see more Iced based software with the lower dependency requirements, and hope that they can be made multi platform to give another option for native applications. I use a Cosmic session on my System76 laptop and it’s more stable outside of the VM.
🧡 Really big KDE person, who occasionally boots up Hyprland for some tiling goodness - I'm excited to give COSMIC a go and get the best of both worlds!
I noticed a subtle but distracting buzzing/ static noise whenever you speak during the video, as if there's a fan blowing into the microphone. I don't hear the same in your other video's. Could it perhaps be that, because this is live-commentary, that your audio setup is slightly different, causing the static noise? Still loved the review of the new COSMIC DE, keep it up!
My AC is out of commission right now so I had a fan running. I also was sitting a little farther from the mic. I did what I could to cut down on the room noise, but I was not 100% successful. Sorry!
What would be a workflow that would benefit from some workspaces in tiling, others in floating mode? I can't think where I personally would really want that, because it it would actually require a big shift in how you are interacting with the DE. So it would break your flow and I could see myself just either using one mode or the other, not both. But I guess it is cool to have the option and maybe it fits the use cases of other people.
just so much flat grey... i can't say I'm a fan. It would be nice to see drop-shadow, transparency and blur available (optionally) and customisable out of the box; I would love built-in blur, since my experience with "blur my shell" is always glitchy af. Fingers crossed also for (optional) consistent and anti-aliased rounded corners on all windows. That accented active window outline is also... pretty bold, I hope it can be made more subtle beyond colour alone. And as you mentioned some issues with spacing in the dock -- the very-rounded one does not have enough side padding (or the icons are too big for it), and in all of them the tile hover background shape hits the edges of the container, which is fine for squares, but uncomfortable when the corners are rounded (or circles). Anyway, that's my first thoughts from a design perspective so far.
This kind of tiling is what I have been waiting for. Once this becomes stable I will probably move on from Gnome (after 15 years of Gnome3). Gnome has been great, and I've donated money every year, but tiling windows on large format displays cannot be ignored.
Just wait until Gardiner figures out that you can move entire groups of tiled windox using `super + u` and `super + i` to navigate up and down group zones, and `super + x` to switch windows, stacks, and groups. Oh, and the official nomenclature for the little "commandlette" when you hit the `super` key is called the "Cosmic Launcher" or just the Launcher. And, I think that the 24.04 alpha is more stable on hardware, instead of virtualized.
I live in Hyprland and use the latest Gnome with six extensions as an alternative DE on my PCs. The plan is to use a laptop for testing POP! 24.04 when Cosmic is polished. Not leaving Hyprland . But, Cosmic DE could be better than my current Gnome/extensions mishmash.
12:02 the highlights will be very doable for them, it’s just a matter of setting the accent color in CSS which has been possible in GTK since forever. Ubuntu for instance sets the accent colors. It makes sense it doesn’t work yet given this is alpha software, just saying that I’m very hopeful they’ll fix this.
It works, but GTK theme support is disabled by default. You have to enable external theme support in the experimental settings section of the Appearance settings page.
To be clear: X11 was already a full fledged desktop with all kinds of features that you could only much later find also on windows. Comparison is good for people that have worked with windows, but I never had except for a 9 months investigating how to create drivers for windows NT 4. You had to purge visual studio and then reinstall it without spaces in the directory names was step one according to the instructions from microsoft. Visual studio was buggy as always. The driver developer kit only needed the compiler and make. But I think they hated themselves for not having a formal filesystem standard. I think they still hate themselves for that now. I digress... This looks like linux from 25 years ago on X11
Cautious 🧡 9:34 - I want a configuration option to make the calculator use infinite precision integers and rational numbers rather than floating point. :-) I've come to really dislike floating point, and only want it in certain output scenarios because it's easier to reason about when doing comparisons in my head. And I thought things written in Rust _couldn't_ crash because they were memory safe!
@@Omnifarious0 Crashes are caused by unimplemented case's, like closing an app and minimizing at the same time Rust can be memory safe but drivers are written in C And hardware is not memory safe Cosmic is a lot more stable on real hardware From what i saw in the video the VM graphics driver was crashing
@@konkitoman - So the solution is not enough Rust! If it's all Rust all the time, we will have a nirvana of no crashing! I thought though that Java was supposed to do that for us.
Rust doesn't magically prevent crashes, it "just" prevents memory unsafety (unless you use declared 'unsafe' blocks). Things like trying to open a file that does not exist and expecting that to work will crash regardless if it's a memory safe language or not, as that's not a memory related thing. In the black screen that's visible when Cosmic crashed I saw something about a "broken pipe", which might be related to inter-process communication. It prevents those nasty bugs like use-after-free, double-free, buffer-overflow and things like that though (unless you specifically use stuff marked as 'unsafe'), which also might cause a crash, or cause a security nightmare.
@@Gramini - I've never had a memory related crash in production code I've written in C++. I see no reason why Rust somehow magically makes my code better.
Yes, see the panel and dock settings pages. The dock can be disabled, and applets can be arranged in any order on the panel and dock. Both can be placed on any side of the display.
Ohh wow, written in Rust?. Sounds interesting. Though I've found myself content with GNOME specially after they added the capability of edditing directories without pressing Ctrl+L.
I played around with Cosmic back in 22.04 and I love what I was seeing. I never liked GNOME, and I still don’t. If GTK is indeed going down the route that’s actually not ideal for non-GNOME DEs, I hope Cosmic’s toolkit or Qt would be the ones that’ll replace GTK.
There are some issues with VMs in the press ISO. The compositor crashing is due to the VM not having adequate graphics acceleration support. We did push updates today to use software rendering for VMs, so this should be fixed in the public alpha ISO.
Bad video: - some nosie in background - to title research - you can GTK apps look as cosmic apps, it is just turn off by default as it is cosider to be experimental feature but it works - No, cosmic apps dosen't look Gnome apps as they have menu bar in emedded into tilebar - Gnome apps use hidous hamburger menu instead
As far as the noise in the background goes, it was because my air conditioner was broken. As far as the hamburger menus go, I actually prefer them. It's cleaner. Bad comment. 😂
GTK is going down the route that’s potentially not ideal for non-GNOME DEs, so instead of forking GNOME & (maybe in the future) GTK, and inheriting legacy code, they wanna start as fresh as possible. IIRC, Mint is considering forking GTK 3 or building libraries that’s alternative to libAdwaita.
@@luigigrabspam4596 I don't know what auto-tiling is and I don't know what 1 to 1 gestures mean, but gestures and tiling are available in Cinnamon, except Wayland is in experimental phase or alpha, just like Cosmic. Also, I said I'm undecided, not against Cosmic. Probably the first version out of the box is not the best
I'm very interested with both Iced and the planned dual GPU support in Cosmic. First, having a second option against the monopoly of Qt (GTK is out of the question because of how utterly incompetent and unaware the devs are) is good, though I'm skeptical about how well it'll do considered that it's locked behind Rust, and Rust is just reinventing the wheel of C++ by killing performance in favor of memory safety that anyone competent enough will not need anyways (feels weird saying this when C++ was already a new wheel!). As for the nvidia support... Yes, please! Anyone on a dual GPU laptop knows how agonizing it is to all make work. It's a complete mess and no amount of browsing wikis helped me, and I'm a pretty experienced user. Also needless to say that as someone that was about to setup a KDE+i3 system... this looks exactly like what I wanted, a fully-featured DE that Just Works:tm: like KDE (the amount of issues with my system that just using KDE defaults fixes is incredible, shoutouts to bluetooth being way easier with it) AND has a proper tiling system?? Yes, please. And it just looks sweet, too. I have to say, this feels SUPER niche, I don't think that it'll be a mainstream DE, but if you need something like this, then it's pretty much perfect. Snappy, tiling, fully-featured, with built-in iGPU dGPU switching. Please, don't let it become yet another 8957039456 forks Rust project maintained by someone in their basement every ten years because the devs had a disagreement on whether bananas or oranges are tastier and this somehow ruined their ability to make a useable DE.
I dont think you truly grasp rust if that the kind of belief you have. It is extremely performant and designed from the ground ip to work at a system level which is why both Linux and Windows have adopted it i to their respective kernel’s. It is the best of performance and memory safety. Ill take that any day over C/C++ and the decades of dangling NULL pointers and all the bugs and exploits that existed because of this. While you can make efforts to sanitize C/C++ it is not the default behaviour and will always lead to problems. Rust will mot allow these to even compile if there are not proper rules followed.
Rust's memory and thread safety capabilities are provided by compile-time analysis, not runtime. Therefore, there is no performance penalty whatsoever. Rust regularly tops the benchmark charts everywhere. Well ahead of C++ and C. In fact, the Rust syntax was specifically designed so that the compiler's static compile-time analysis is more effective at preventing issues than the best runtime analysis tools for C and C++. Syntax-wise, Rust has more in common with its functional roots than it does with C++. It's not reinventing C++. It's not even object-oriented like C++ is.
There are no extensions capable of doing what COSMIC is doing. At best, you get an assortment of hack jobs with partially implemented features, poor performance, limited theming, and much instability from runtime type errors in JavaScript, and memory safety issues in C.
Another "modern" UI that looks like crap. People wasting their time trying to reinvent the wheel just because it is ...old design? No, thanks. KDE Plasma rules!
great... nothing new! they just did a tiling feature, wow! Seriously wtf would I spend time customizing this rather than just get work done, as much a gnome is plain, the desktop OS is pointless this days!
Counterpoint: Linux needs a desktop like GNOME, but made by adequate people. Expecting greatness from alpha software is at least a bit weird, don't you think?
@@シミズルリ I know I am barking at the moon with this. Linux has one milion desktops and wm-s all of them never come close to stability and usability of old win7 DE. Mybe XFCE but if thats best what it has to offer you see where we are. I dont expect anything but to people to stop giving praise to half baked software, even if its free.
Then stick with KDE. The beauty of Linux is you don't have to use something if you don't like it. As far as the bugginess goes, it's an alpha; he's just getting a sneak peek at something that hasn't been released yet.
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🧡 I wish System76 good luck, for a relatively smol team they already did a good job with Cosmic. I also hope they will get HDR and VRR sorted out, unlike certain other desktop.
I'm quite happy with kde but I'll give cosmic a try when it's ready for sure. I've always been a fan of system 76 and think they've done an amazing job in a short time
VMs have limited graphics hardware support in the press ISO. Hence the VM's graphics driver crashing the compositor. There were some updates recently to improve compositor support for VMs.
Sound and network settings pages haven't been implemented yet. Wasn't necessary for the first alpha because they're provided by applets currently.
You can press PrintScrn or type screenshot in the launcher to take a screenshot.
I tried COSMIC in a Fedora Atomic distro a few months ago, and I was genuinely blown away at how awesome it is (aside from the pre-alpha bugs, obviously).
You get:
- good defaults (in my opinion)
- tons of features from both _real_ tiling window managers and floating window managers without having to re-learn how to use your DE
- powerful customization capability; not just in how it _looks_ , but also how it _behaves_
- in addition to the powerful customization, you get *mostly* intuitive ways to configure the customization
I'm extremely appreciative of the people that worked on COSMIC. Once COSMIC is out of alpha, I genuinely think this is going to be my ideal DE.
Do you think it's possible to merge the two top/bottom bars into one sidebar? I just couldn't live with all that wasted screen space. 😅
@@nathanl2966 Yes, this is already possible with Cosmic!
@@nathanl2966 On current Pop!_OS (GNOME with custom extensions), you can auto-hide the dock so only the top bar stays visible at all times; I'd imagine you can do the same on COSMIC but we'll have to see.
You can disable the dash at the bottom, the bar at the top can also auto hide
@@nathanl2966 See the dock and panel settings pages. The dock is a second panel, and it can be disabled. Both panels can be configured with any arrangement of applets, on any side of the display.
🧡
Excited about any innovation in the linux desktop space. Tiling looks really promising!
I love tiling for dev but it can be a hassle to run a full tiling desktop like hyprland for more casual desktop use, especially gaming so having a more traditional floating window desktop that does support proper dynamic tiling sounds really interesting.
Innovation rocks! Im really curious to see how people get on with iced! :) the first community built apps already bode well for the future ^^
Exactly, I'm of the same opinion. as much as I like fiddling with my desktop it wastes too much time. I just want something that works for me out of the box and looks good where I can get working with minor or no customization beyond a wallpaper and theme at all and still be satisfied.
It's always a pain setting up a quick way to change sound internet and bluetooth settings in those tiling managers.
THANK GOD ! FINALLY ANOTHER LINUX VIDEO ! I THOUGHT I LOST HIM SINCE THE STEAM DECK'S ARRIVAL HAHA
i much prefer workspaces not spanning both monitors. If i put a video on one screen I want it to stay there while im doing whatever on the other
This is the way
The fact that you can’t do it on Gnome is a major pain point
@@threddast can't do what? There is a choice between spanning both screens and only having them on one
I like how DWM and Awesome does it where each monitor has it's own seperate set of workspaces
this (plus first class tiling) is what kept me using sway. If I can have those without the need of manually configuring everything I'll happily ditch wms
Thanks for leaving in the mishaps and things that didn't quit work (yet)
Being a fellow UXD I'd say you would want redundancy of sound options and others in both places, panel and settings, as the placement should be based on user intent more than system elegance
One would intuitively expect more settings in the "settings" page.
Like output devices, sound sharing, eq(if any) and output quality.
they have the design
they want to do it
but I think the amount of work required makes many of the features unfeasible for the alpha release
The audio setting was there previously, but all the controls were TODOs
it'll come soon enough, I hope
Yes, I agree. Settings app should include everything, so that if someone wants to look something up they know the settings app will have it
Sounds more like a Linux tinker’s thoughts. Doubling up on settings and options creates clutter and user disorientation.
Simple interfaces are easy for new users to adapt to. Lots of choices will overwhelm users. They may be in the right place to find something because it makes sense for that option to be there, but more than likely the average user is just going to feel intimidated by all the options everywhere. This leads to little adoption by anyone other than the tech enthusiast… because it is poor UX.
This is generally why Linux is still not adopted by the average home user. To the enthusiast it is a desired feature to have all the options and configurations at your fingertips at all times. To the average user, it is a nightmare. You might as well tell them to open up the terminal at that point.
Notice something about Android, MacOS, iOS, ChromeOS? They all try not to overwhelm the user with setting repeated everywhere. Windows is a mess, but it has been the default for so long people put up with it. Though in my experience the average user on Windows is afraid to go into settings, where as on the other OSs mentioned, I have never seen that being a thing to fear for basic users.
I know this was 3days ago but mmstick (Cosmic Dev) made a comment and he confirmed that sound settings will be added they're just not yet fully implemented for alpha.
I don't see myself personally using Cosmic any time soon, but I really appreciate how much work they've put into it, how far it's come, and how promising it's looking. Good job System76!
Regarding the UI customizability, one of their key designers (or maybe even the CEO) said in a presentation that if you don't have the ability to make your UI ugly, then you don't have the ability to make it beautiful either.
Additionally, they are open for distributions to modify and configure a lot of how COSMIC can look, unlike in GNOME's case where you would have to at least write a GNOME shell extension or even patch the entire DE in order to customize it as much as the distributions may need (like in Pop OS's case before).
🧡 I'm very excited for COSMIC, it looks really cool, the autotiling is interesting to me and I can't wait for it to be fully released!
🧡
Definitely excited for this DE and where it goes in the future!
This cracks me up. Windows 1.0 was a tiling window manager and everyone hated it, so they changed it to overlapping windows. Now Linux is trending toward tiling window managers.
I would say most people are using overlapping windows most of the time. Some users though have use for tiling. Usually work related or repetitive tasks. Tiled windows are still not the default for Jerry across the street.
I think you can also have like a preferred setup where it tiles automatically to your saved setup if the respective apps are Openend, which would be awesome for work setup on a big monitor. Like IDE in the middle in full 16:9, left upper side teams, left lower side mails/notes or whatever, right side browser... But in my company we will stick to Windows until I retire I assume, but a man can dream, right?
we've used tiling in linux for decades. it's torture to move to a floating setup when you have spent so long using a keyboard to get work done. not sure people hating windows tiling is representative of the success of tiling for linux...most linux users simply hate(d) windows...tiling or not :)
the great thing here is that it's both. all they need to do is set a preset system for which workspace would be tiled and which wouldn't along with the tiling pattern and even automatically tiling a certain set of open apps in a specific way. then it would be close to perfection.
I dont think Linux is trending towards it.
The "main distros" will still have floating windows by default for many many years. Maybe they have autotiling as a option but it will not be default.
🧡 Love to see more as this moves along. Very promising so far!
Gnome has an option in the settings to make workspace span multiple desktops! I use it on all my gnome desktops.
I like where this is going, I'm definitely intrigued. 🧡
🧡system 76 did a great job!
I mean for *alpha* software it's still looking pretty good. Hopefully they iron out those crashes before alpha release.🧡
These only happened in a virtual machine since it doesn't have full graphics acceleration support. There were some patches yesterday to the compositor to default to software rendering for virtual machines that should improve this.
Love the tiling on this, I plan to use it as soon as it arrives in PoP
In an interview on the System76 podcast the designer said that in order to have a feature rich theming engine that enables users to create beautiful themes, the engine will need to be able to create the ugliest themes imaginable. 😊
🧡sou br e cai no seu video, estou ansioso pelo novo cosmic, uso o pop os a mais de 2 anos, distro preferida. Ótimo video, continue assim
Hope they Keep up the project, I am plasma user, still many features to implement, but this under my radar!
The organization of the color options is good. Starting with simple dark / light and accent color before handing more granular control.
I think you missed it, but you can enable theming for GTK apps in the appearance settings
🧡 Super excited here. I've been playing with the Fedora Cosmic SIG for a while. It's so responsive. I'm looking forward to a stable production release and plan to shitch over.
I am very excited for cosmics desktop. It is a breath of fresh air compared to other DE's. Gnome is Unimaginative and KDE breaks for no apparent reason. From the looks of what is currently in alpha they put a lot of thought into this, and boy do they seem to be delivering something amazing. Cannot wait for the full release of cosmic desktop and how it will fair in other distros.
🧡 I'm rocking the Alpha right now as my daily drives.... I'm bold... heheheeh
🧡
SO.
HECKIN'
_HYPED!_
🧡 Very excited to check this out, finally a new interface in the linux world, its been a while! I love the tiling with the tabs (one of the few things I miss from my windows days is a program called Groupy that allowed you to have all your windows open tabbed or "grouped" - REALLY miss that!). I wonder how extensive the theming will be (i.e. gnome extension for theming gtk apps). The "launcher" looks similar to something like Ulauncher or Krunner with the search, math, google etc configurations built in. Considering they started from scratch, its looking really good. I haven't run POP in years, once I moved on to Arch with window manager or Arch+KDE/Gnome it was hard to switch back to the Ubuntu package manager and back end, but definitely going to check out the alpha later this ween when its released. Thanks for the walk through.
The past DEs that would start with GNOME as the baseline would cause issues with GNOME settings when adjusting them for the other desktop. This has been less of an issue, but each update of GTK is created with GNOME in mind and it takes some time for all other desktops to add support. So, System76 has avoided this situation by using a whole new toolkit, but adding theming support for GTK is a great way to have a consistent look across the apps.
I am happy with the progress of Cosmic and hope to see more Iced based software with the lower dependency requirements, and hope that they can be made multi platform to give another option for native applications.
I use a Cosmic session on my System76 laptop and it’s more stable outside of the VM.
🧡 Really big KDE person, who occasionally boots up Hyprland for some tiling goodness - I'm excited to give COSMIC a go and get the best of both worlds!
I noticed a subtle but distracting buzzing/ static noise whenever you speak during the video, as if there's a fan blowing into the microphone. I don't hear the same in your other video's. Could it perhaps be that, because this is live-commentary, that your audio setup is slightly different, causing the static noise?
Still loved the review of the new COSMIC DE, keep it up!
My AC is out of commission right now so I had a fan running. I also was sitting a little farther from the mic. I did what I could to cut down on the room noise, but I was not 100% successful. Sorry!
@@gardiner_bryant darn, sucks that your AC isn't working, but no worries, I totally understand the struggle
You should have audio settings, you can add more things in there like per application volume settings
They will be in COSMIC Settings when the page is implemented.
What would be a workflow that would benefit from some workspaces in tiling, others in floating mode? I can't think where I personally would really want that, because it it would actually require a big shift in how you are interacting with the DE. So it would break your flow and I could see myself just either using one mode or the other, not both. But I guess it is cool to have the option and maybe it fits the use cases of other people.
just so much flat grey... i can't say I'm a fan. It would be nice to see drop-shadow, transparency and blur available (optionally) and customisable out of the box; I would love built-in blur, since my experience with "blur my shell" is always glitchy af. Fingers crossed also for (optional) consistent and anti-aliased rounded corners on all windows. That accented active window outline is also... pretty bold, I hope it can be made more subtle beyond colour alone. And as you mentioned some issues with spacing in the dock -- the very-rounded one does not have enough side padding (or the icons are too big for it), and in all of them the tile hover background shape hits the edges of the container, which is fine for squares, but uncomfortable when the corners are rounded (or circles). Anyway, that's my first thoughts from a design perspective so far.
@11:30 mark, we call it the Action bar, or Application Actions.
My only hope is that they also focused on adding basic QoL features.
This kind of tiling is what I have been waiting for. Once this becomes stable I will probably move on from Gnome (after 15 years of Gnome3). Gnome has been great, and I've donated money every year, but tiling windows on large format displays cannot be ignored.
Just wait until Gardiner figures out that you can move entire groups of tiled windox using `super + u` and `super + i` to navigate up and down group zones, and `super + x` to switch windows, stacks, and groups.
Oh, and the official nomenclature for the little "commandlette" when you hit the `super` key is called the "Cosmic Launcher" or just the Launcher.
And, I think that the 24.04 alpha is more stable on hardware, instead of virtualized.
It looks really exciting ….. 🧡
I'd like to see how they work around gtk apps having their own titlebar implementation
Looking forward to it!
do something with your mic... There is a lot of noise....
It seems soooo much thought through ❤
I live in Hyprland and use the latest Gnome with six extensions as an alternative DE on my PCs. The plan is to use a laptop for testing POP! 24.04 when Cosmic is polished. Not leaving Hyprland . But, Cosmic DE could be better than my current Gnome/extensions mishmash.
Just installed it on Arch. It took so long to so compile. The desktop have a lot features but it takes 1.6 GB ram meanwhile gnome with 600 MB
awesome! It seems that pop_os crashed many times on vm. I am not sure I can use this alpha version on daily work . But I can not wait for it.
this DE will be included in RedoxOS in all likelyhood as soon as they can enable it for it
12:02 the highlights will be very doable for them, it’s just a matter of setting the accent color in CSS which has been possible in GTK since forever. Ubuntu for instance sets the accent colors.
It makes sense it doesn’t work yet given this is alpha software, just saying that I’m very hopeful they’ll fix this.
It works, but GTK theme support is disabled by default. You have to enable external theme support in the experimental settings section of the Appearance settings page.
To be clear: X11 was already a full fledged desktop with all kinds of features that you could only much later find also on windows. Comparison is good for people that have worked with windows, but I never had except for a 9 months investigating how to create drivers for windows NT 4. You had to purge visual studio and then reinstall it without spaces in the directory names was step one according to the instructions from microsoft.
Visual studio was buggy as always. The driver developer kit only needed the compiler and make. But I think they hated themselves for not having a formal filesystem standard. I think they still hate themselves for that now.
I digress...
This looks like linux from 25 years ago on X11
dude audio is king
Cautious 🧡
9:34 - I want a configuration option to make the calculator use infinite precision integers and rational numbers rather than floating point. :-) I've come to really dislike floating point, and only want it in certain output scenarios because it's easier to reason about when doing comparisons in my head.
And I thought things written in Rust _couldn't_ crash because they were memory safe!
@@Omnifarious0 Crashes are caused by unimplemented case's, like closing an app and minimizing at the same time
Rust can be memory safe but drivers are written in C
And hardware is not memory safe
Cosmic is a lot more stable on real hardware
From what i saw in the video the VM graphics driver was crashing
@@konkitoman - So the solution is not enough Rust! If it's all Rust all the time, we will have a nirvana of no crashing! I thought though that Java was supposed to do that for us.
Rust doesn't magically prevent crashes, it "just" prevents memory unsafety (unless you use declared 'unsafe' blocks). Things like trying to open a file that does not exist and expecting that to work will crash regardless if it's a memory safe language or not, as that's not a memory related thing. In the black screen that's visible when Cosmic crashed I saw something about a "broken pipe", which might be related to inter-process communication.
It prevents those nasty bugs like use-after-free, double-free, buffer-overflow and things like that though (unless you specifically use stuff marked as 'unsafe'), which also might cause a crash, or cause a security nightmare.
@@Gramini - I've never had a memory related crash in production code I've written in C++. I see no reason why Rust somehow magically makes my code better.
@@Omnifarious0 bro is really pretending like the issue of memory safety doesn't exist.
I'm currently a Gnome user but once VRR + HDR is ready I'm switching to this
Does every active window have a border or is that an accessibility feature that can be turned off. I am not sure that I like the border on everything.
It can be removed. but for me it's a nice way to see what I'm actually selecting. I'll probably choose a less harsh contrast though.
cosmic has always appealed more to me than gnome, let em cook
🧡 been looking for a new ui and distro so ill try it out
I still prefer the way the GTK3 version looked, and do need Japanese input working before I can daily drive this, but other than that, I'm excited
I mean language support is one of the most basic features for usability. so hopefully that should be easy to setup.
why in a vm? is it not safe to use on bare metal?
Can you provide a source where I can download the 24.04 ISO alpha?
I hope minimizing an app goes into the app's icon and not in its own icon in the toolbar. At minimum have an option for it as this is standard.
Where’s the garden?
What garden?
@@gardiner_bryant gardener tending to his cosmic garden
Wow… 3 notches below a dad joke 😂
I am daily driving it sometimes its buggy but for my usage i want to spin up multiple vm its so good when compared to gnome pop
I heckin love pop_os!
🧡
Can you remove the top bar i hate and put all at botom only 1 taskbar
Yes, see the panel and dock settings pages. The dock can be disabled, and applets can be arranged in any order on the panel and dock. Both can be placed on any side of the display.
Ohh wow, written in Rust?. Sounds interesting. Though I've found myself content with GNOME specially after they added the capability of edditing directories without pressing Ctrl+L.
I played around with Cosmic back in 22.04 and I love what I was seeing.
I never liked GNOME, and I still don’t.
If GTK is indeed going down the route that’s actually not ideal for non-GNOME DEs, I hope Cosmic’s toolkit or Qt would be the ones that’ll replace GTK.
Hopefully Qt, I love how it looks and apparently it's pretty easy to program for.
The audio is messy, each time you talk there's white noise in the background
A designer? Did you design that thing on your face as well?
I will probably be switching to Pop when Cosmic goes 1.0.
VM Testing... I feel like, even though you give it a pretty good review, that it was unfair to not use a real system like a real user would
There are some issues with VMs in the press ISO. The compositor crashing is due to the VM not having adequate graphics acceleration support. We did push updates today to use software rendering for VMs, so this should be fixed in the public alpha ISO.
ORANGE HEART 🧡
Super M i think should maximize (toggle it).
any link to download popos 24.04 alpha?
We haven't made the final ISO yet. This will be released on August 8th on the Pop!_OS website.
🧡 cosmic is gonna be cool. :)
Gnome's the king! /s
omg the noise in the video actully hurts im sorry I cant make it after 3:01
huh, i might need to switch from sway to cosmic..
They need to hire someone with the sense of design
Bad video:
- some nosie in background
- to title research - you can GTK apps look as cosmic apps, it is just turn off by default as it is cosider to be experimental feature but it works
- No, cosmic apps dosen't look Gnome apps as they have menu bar in emedded into tilebar - Gnome apps use hidous hamburger menu instead
As far as the noise in the background goes, it was because my air conditioner was broken.
As far as the hamburger menus go, I actually prefer them. It's cleaner.
Bad comment. 😂
🧡🦀
Wake me up when they finally get to a production release and I'll reload Pop on my System76 laptop.
Is there still room in the Butt of the developers of System76 ?
Cosmic actually seems pretty good, at least comparing to gnome
Most of this stuff could be done in Cinnamon desktop for years. And it still looks like Gnome. I'm going to stay undecided on this one... for now. 😄
GTK is going down the route that’s potentially not ideal for non-GNOME DEs, so instead of forking GNOME & (maybe in the future) GTK, and inheriting legacy code, they wanna start as fresh as possible.
IIRC, Mint is considering forking GTK 3 or building libraries that’s alternative to libAdwaita.
@@VeryUsMumblings except auto tiling, usable wayland session, and 1 to 1 gestures. But those are such MINOR things right
@@luigigrabspam4596 I don't know what auto-tiling is and I don't know what 1 to 1 gestures mean, but gestures and tiling are available in Cinnamon, except Wayland is in experimental phase or alpha, just like Cosmic. Also, I said I'm undecided, not against Cosmic. Probably the first version out of the box is not the best
@@VeryUsMumblings"I don't know what they are but they're available in Cinnamon"
What is wayland support looking like? (Oh, I see someone already asked.)
شكله ب يكون شي نقلة نوعية يمكن بس شكله جميل مرة
I'm very interested with both Iced and the planned dual GPU support in Cosmic. First, having a second option against the monopoly of Qt (GTK is out of the question because of how utterly incompetent and unaware the devs are) is good, though I'm skeptical about how well it'll do considered that it's locked behind Rust, and Rust is just reinventing the wheel of C++ by killing performance in favor of memory safety that anyone competent enough will not need anyways (feels weird saying this when C++ was already a new wheel!).
As for the nvidia support... Yes, please! Anyone on a dual GPU laptop knows how agonizing it is to all make work. It's a complete mess and no amount of browsing wikis helped me, and I'm a pretty experienced user.
Also needless to say that as someone that was about to setup a KDE+i3 system... this looks exactly like what I wanted, a fully-featured DE that Just Works:tm: like KDE (the amount of issues with my system that just using KDE defaults fixes is incredible, shoutouts to bluetooth being way easier with it) AND has a proper tiling system?? Yes, please. And it just looks sweet, too. I have to say, this feels SUPER niche, I don't think that it'll be a mainstream DE, but if you need something like this, then it's pretty much perfect. Snappy, tiling, fully-featured, with built-in iGPU dGPU switching. Please, don't let it become yet another 8957039456 forks Rust project maintained by someone in their basement every ten years because the devs had a disagreement on whether bananas or oranges are tastier and this somehow ruined their ability to make a useable DE.
I dont think you truly grasp rust if that the kind of belief you have. It is extremely performant and designed from the ground ip to work at a system level which is why both Linux and Windows have adopted it i to their respective kernel’s.
It is the best of performance and memory safety. Ill take that any day over C/C++ and the decades of dangling NULL pointers and all the bugs and exploits that existed because of this. While you can make efforts to sanitize C/C++ it is not the default behaviour and will always lead to problems. Rust will mot allow these to even compile if there are not proper rules followed.
Rust's memory and thread safety capabilities are provided by compile-time analysis, not runtime. Therefore, there is no performance penalty whatsoever. Rust regularly tops the benchmark charts everywhere. Well ahead of C++ and C. In fact, the Rust syntax was specifically designed so that the compiler's static compile-time analysis is more effective at preventing issues than the best runtime analysis tools for C and C++. Syntax-wise, Rust has more in common with its functional roots than it does with C++. It's not reinventing C++. It's not even object-oriented like C++ is.
The colors look very pale. I prefer naturally vibrant colors.
You can change all the colors to your liking
I stil don't see all they hype behind this
After all that hype, it's just gnome with extensions.
There are no extensions capable of doing what COSMIC is doing. At best, you get an assortment of hack jobs with partially implemented features, poor performance, limited theming, and much instability from runtime type errors in JavaScript, and memory safety issues in C.
That's a bit harsh; there's WAY more going on under the hood of this thing.
Plus, y'know, the plus of not relying on JS jank for basic features.
SECOND!!
Another "modern" UI that looks like crap. People wasting their time trying to reinvent the wheel just because it is ...old design? No, thanks. KDE Plasma rules!
Yeah, minimizing window will crash Cosmic.
@gardinerbryant where did you get the ISO from?
great... nothing new! they just did a tiling feature, wow! Seriously wtf would I spend time customizing this rather than just get work done, as much a gnome is plain, the desktop OS is pointless this days!
Gnome is not pronounced "guh-nome", it's simply "nome", the G is silent.
In the case of a garden gnome that's correct. But for the Gnome desktop the "G" is pronounced.
meh... Linux needs stable and usable desktop, not another buggy mess that looks like gnome.
Then make one yourself. Oh wait, it will be another buggy mess. See how it works? 'Linux' isnt a single entity so stop treating it like one.
Counterpoint: Linux needs a desktop like GNOME, but made by adequate people.
Expecting greatness from alpha software is at least a bit weird, don't you think?
@@askeladden450 It isnt single entity, but trends are the same for everyone.
@@シミズルリ I know I am barking at the moon with this. Linux has one milion desktops and wm-s all of them never come close to stability and usability of old win7 DE. Mybe XFCE but if thats best what it has to offer you see where we are. I dont expect anything but to people to stop giving praise to half baked software, even if its free.
Then stick with KDE. The beauty of Linux is you don't have to use something if you don't like it. As far as the bugginess goes, it's an alpha; he's just getting a sneak peek at something that hasn't been released yet.
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