41:12 "Does this seem a little much for you?" Absolutely not. SPM is my favorite game of all time for a reason, I will always love its boldness and ambition with the story and characters. And I'm going to make my voice heard at every opportunity, as not doing so is basically resigning to a Mario series that will never have that creative freedom again.
Nintendo always claims they make games with the intention of “innovating”. But I call absolute BS on that front given how some of their series always seems to be put on the backburning, despite having many opportunities to put in new ideas or reinvent old ones for a new audience. *F-Zero comes to mind when it comes to this approach*
Super Paper Mario highlighted Timpani and Count Bleck, leaving people going "Oh hey, Mario is in this game too!" I did notice just how far off Super had taken the Paper Mario franchise. The Sammer Guy's kingdom vanished, In the late chapters you go the the Underwhere (Hell) and eventually to the Overthere (Heaven). Which have nothing to do with the Mushroom Kingdom, since this is a Mario game Afterall. Odyssey has unique characters because it was made in house, not by a different developer. Because of this Nintendo can be very creative with new characters. Fans don't link up the fact that Odyssey was made by Nintendo themselves, not Intelligent Systems or Alphadream.
Ideas for a ttyd successor revamped Badges: Some new ones that can apply special side effects to your attacks. Fire flower, Hammer suit, Cape Feather Upgrade badges: Some badges oughta be upgradeable and have better attack power and new properties too Challenges: more in depth and difficult than put of 100 trials. And every set of challenges done rewards you something great and different Upgradeable badges: Some badges like said can be upgraded to newer better badges Examples: Quake Hammer to power quake then mega quake Fire Drive Upgraded to blaze drive then inferno drive Power bounce jump and smash to mega bounce jump and smash. And the badges would still cost the same fp and bp. But getting said upgrades would be specific and difficult to gain requirements. Speaking of... Three badges in particular to add more to your fight style Fire flower: Adds fire properties to all of Mario's attacks. Also causing burn to enemies. Some moves that were already fire based are now double in damage and can also damage and burn armored and fire enemies. Hammer suit: Adds hammer properties to attacks and hammer attacks are now thrown. Some moves that were already hammer based can ignore targets' defense Cape feather: Adds air priority to all attacks, also ups attack of jump moves by 2. Moves that are jump attacks hit multiple enemies at once Paper aesthetic level: Keep it at the same level as Thousand Year Door. That amount is just right. Not too much or too little. Animations of characters: smooth and fluid like Thousand Year door and no white borders around the characters. Paper aesthetic: To be on the same level as Thousand Year Door. That's just the right amount. The latest games went too overboard with the paper theme.
While I won’t deny that there are flaws in the more recent Paper Mario games, I do think the earlier games in the series have been overpraised as well. I think there is a subset of the fanbase that the older games clicked super-well with, which isn’t that representative of the broader market for the games. That may help explain the disparity between the poll results and what you see on social media. Neither one of those is likely a perfect representation, but I think it’s important to consider both perspectives.
Appreciate the amount of research you've put into this. The idea that Super's unique (for a Mario game) story may have hurt the series stings to the point I hope it's not true, and timeline just happens to line up like that. The characters, especially Blumiere, Timpani, and Dimentio, is the main reasons why the game is loved so much and it's not like the game was a financial failure. Nintendo even rereleased at some point.
Same that's why its my favorite game ever! Even it does has some flaws I still love it even more than in TTYD (although I still love ttyd since I have nostogia because game grumps)
This is an interesting video on the topic, and brings forth stuff into discussion that hasn't really been said yet. Also t 14:37 mark I have to ask: Didn't 3D world feature mostly original bossess? Granted, they weren't the most memorable (expect Motley Boss Bob but that's mostly because of the fact you can't make a boss with clown aesthetic and NOT make them memorable) but still. I wanted to point this out.
@@RetroAndChill Thank you. Like yeah I feel that while 3D world has a visual style of 3D land, it not only brings new gameplay ideas without feeling too gimmicky (Plessie, The Double Cherry and the catsuit) but also has more original aesthetics, settings and new characters. Like as boring as the Pixies were, at least they were a new idea to the Mario setting. If anything, I'd argue that 3d World is the first step into the current direction Mario games are in, which while not as wild as the GBA/Gamecube/early wii/ds era and kinda following the "NSMB era" restrictions to some extent, still feels innovative,fresh and genuinely wanting to try new things with its gameplay, settings and characters like what we seen with Odyssey, Rabbids Kingdom Battle or Bowsers Fury and even to an extent with games like Luigis Mansion 3 or Origami King.
@@dovevanity4252 My only real gripe with it is the fixed camera angle makes some of the platforming kinda annoying. I've lost way too many lives to a bad jump.
@@RetroAndChill That is a fair point. On a different (but somewhat related topic), I'm surprised you didn't bring up the creator Yoshiaki Koizumi, the director and scenario planner of Super Mario Galaxy and the mainline Mario games following it. Unlike Miyamoto, Koizumi seems to be more open to the idea of Mario games being not only more innovative but also more story-oriented. There's even accounts of the two butting heads because of their changing ideologies. Koizumi is largely to thank to the little nuggets of writing he has sprinkled in games like Galaxy and Odyssey. I'm sure that were he given more free reign, he'd be the Mario equvalient of Shinya Kumazaki, the current scenario writer for the Kirby series. Also its ironic that Miyamoto thinks Nintendo games shouldn't have stories when some of the fan-favorite Nintendo games (as well some of my personal favorites) have engaging and compelling stories that tackle nuanced themes. Xenoblade Chronicles, Majoras Mask and Fire Emblem Three Houses are games that come to my mind when thinking of Nintendo games with compelling narratives that tackle complex themes. Granted, all these games I mentioned don't follow the "traditional family-friendly aesthetic" Nintendo is known for and that Miyamoto doesn't really have the franchises on his leash like he has Mario (at least w Xenoblade and FE which are more or less managed by Monolith Soft and Intsys respectively), but still. Like, even freaking Kirby games have surprisingly compelling stories for Pete's sake.
@@dovevanity4252 i agree with you i’d love to have more original and deep stories like in earlier paper mario oddisy and even kirby with the new release of kirby and the forgotten land and a fun fact it’s actually a wrong assessment about myamoto as he’s been getting better with letting people be more creative with the mario brand as of late hell he gave them permission to make mario + rabbids kindom battle for f…k sake like it’s awesome unfortunately it’s just not happening with paper mario at the moment which stinks a lot but at least myamoto is being more open about giving mario more freedom lately but he’s actually always been doing it as he gave them permission to have rosalinas back story all that time ago so it’s not that big of a suprise but it is welcomed
It is a travesty of justice that you don’t have more views. I am a major fanboy of the Paper Mario series, particularly the first 3 (even Super, which to me, still feels like an amazing game). TTYD is one of my favorite games ever made, hell I’ve recently replayed it again with a hard mode patch of sorts since Nintendo refuse to release it again as you mention. I honestly feel as if Ryota Kawade is a genius and was almost punished for overseeing Super Paper Mario (despite it EASILY having the best story Mario has ever told, bar none). I don’t hate Tanabe as a director like a lot of other fans of the series (though he can be incredibly stubborn and annoying). He’s also behind a lot of great series (Luigi’s Mansion, Metroid Prime, etc). But in terms of Paper Mario, the guy is eww. I did like Origami King though; much more than the two awful games prior to it. I’d probably rank TTYD as my fav, PM64 and Lot7S tied 2nd with SPM and Origami King as the last two decent entire. I loathe SS and CS. You’ve got yourself a new sub and I hope you get the recognition you deserve! Edit: as an aside, Mario has also gone to space prior to TTYD in both Super Mario World (I think the Star World/Special Zone is space, though maybe not) and definitely Super Mario Land 2 with Space Zone.
i always felt mario and luigi was starting to run out of steam after bowser's inside story. alpha dream could only do so much with the series's gimmick. so it felt like they were running out of ideas.
41:13 Tbh not really. I played through this game back when I was 9 years old and I never felt disturbed by this or thought that it was too much. In fact, I thought it was rather cool how dark this game could get. I feel like people often underestimate what kids are capable of handling. They’re not as soft or sensitive as most people might think.
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41:12 "Does this seem a little much for you?" Absolutely not. SPM is my favorite game of all time for a reason, I will always love its boldness and ambition with the story and characters. And I'm going to make my voice heard at every opportunity, as not doing so is basically resigning to a Mario series that will never have that creative freedom again.
Nintendo always claims they make games with the intention of “innovating”. But I call absolute BS on that front given how some of their series always seems to be put on the backburning, despite having many opportunities to put in new ideas or reinvent old ones for a new audience.
*F-Zero comes to mind when it comes to this approach*
Super Paper Mario highlighted Timpani and Count Bleck, leaving people going "Oh hey, Mario is in this game too!"
I did notice just how far off Super had taken the Paper Mario franchise. The Sammer Guy's kingdom vanished, In the late chapters you go the the Underwhere (Hell) and eventually to the Overthere (Heaven). Which have nothing to do with the Mushroom Kingdom, since this is a Mario game Afterall.
Odyssey has unique characters because it was made in house, not by a different developer. Because of this Nintendo can be very creative with new characters. Fans don't link up the fact that Odyssey was made by Nintendo themselves, not Intelligent Systems or Alphadream.
Ideas for a ttyd successor revamped
Badges: Some new ones that can apply special side effects to your attacks. Fire flower, Hammer suit, Cape Feather
Upgrade badges: Some badges oughta be upgradeable and have better attack power and new properties too
Challenges: more in depth and difficult than put of 100 trials. And every set of challenges done rewards you something great and different
Upgradeable badges: Some badges like said can be upgraded to newer better badges
Examples:
Quake Hammer to power quake then mega quake
Fire Drive Upgraded to blaze drive then inferno drive
Power bounce jump and smash to mega bounce jump and smash.
And the badges would still cost the same fp and bp. But getting said upgrades would be specific and difficult to gain requirements.
Speaking of...
Three badges in particular to add more to your fight style
Fire flower: Adds fire properties to all of Mario's attacks. Also causing burn to enemies. Some moves that were already fire based are now double in damage and can also damage and burn armored and fire enemies.
Hammer suit: Adds hammer properties to attacks and hammer attacks are now thrown. Some moves that were already hammer based can ignore targets' defense
Cape feather: Adds air priority to all attacks, also ups attack of jump moves by 2. Moves that are jump attacks hit multiple enemies at once
Paper aesthetic level: Keep it at the same level as Thousand Year Door. That amount is just right. Not too much or too little.
Animations of characters: smooth and fluid like Thousand Year door and no white borders around the characters.
Paper aesthetic: To be on the same level as Thousand Year Door. That's just the right amount. The latest games went too overboard with the paper theme.
While I won’t deny that there are flaws in the more recent Paper Mario games, I do think the earlier games in the series have been overpraised as well. I think there is a subset of the fanbase that the older games clicked super-well with, which isn’t that representative of the broader market for the games. That may help explain the disparity between the poll results and what you see on social media. Neither one of those is likely a perfect representation, but I think it’s important to consider both perspectives.
Appreciate the amount of research you've put into this. The idea that Super's unique (for a Mario game) story may have hurt the series stings to the point I hope it's not true, and timeline just happens to line up like that. The characters, especially Blumiere, Timpani, and Dimentio, is the main reasons why the game is loved so much and it's not like the game was a financial failure. Nintendo even rereleased at some point.
Same that's why its my favorite game ever!
Even it does has some flaws
I still love it even more than in TTYD (although I still love ttyd since I have nostogia because game grumps)
An amazing video, well done!
You definitely deserve more attention for your work, keep up the great work!
You got a new sub today!
This is an interesting video on the topic, and brings forth stuff into discussion that hasn't really been said yet.
Also t 14:37 mark I have to ask: Didn't 3D world feature mostly original bossess? Granted, they weren't the most memorable (expect Motley Boss Bob but that's mostly because of the fact you can't make a boss with clown aesthetic and NOT make them memorable) but still. I wanted to point this out.
I think that's a fair point. 3D world definitely has a more distinct look, compared to the rest, and I feel I may have been a bit hard on it.
@@RetroAndChill Thank you. Like yeah I feel that while 3D world has a visual style of 3D land, it not only brings new gameplay ideas without feeling too gimmicky (Plessie, The Double Cherry and the catsuit) but also has more original aesthetics, settings and new characters. Like as boring as the Pixies were, at least they were a new idea to the Mario setting. If anything, I'd argue that 3d World is the first step into the current direction Mario games are in, which while not as wild as the GBA/Gamecube/early wii/ds era and kinda following the "NSMB era" restrictions to some extent, still feels innovative,fresh and genuinely wanting to try new things with its gameplay, settings and characters like what we seen with Odyssey, Rabbids Kingdom Battle or Bowsers Fury and even to an extent with games like Luigis Mansion 3 or Origami King.
@@dovevanity4252 My only real gripe with it is the fixed camera angle makes some of the platforming kinda annoying. I've lost way too many lives to a bad jump.
@@RetroAndChill That is a fair point.
On a different (but somewhat related topic), I'm surprised you didn't bring up the creator Yoshiaki Koizumi, the director and scenario planner of Super Mario Galaxy and the mainline Mario games following it. Unlike Miyamoto, Koizumi seems to be more open to the idea of Mario games being not only more innovative but also more story-oriented. There's even accounts of the two butting heads because of their changing ideologies. Koizumi is largely to thank to the little nuggets of writing he has sprinkled in games like Galaxy and Odyssey. I'm sure that were he given more free reign, he'd be the Mario equvalient of Shinya Kumazaki, the current scenario writer for the Kirby series.
Also its ironic that Miyamoto thinks Nintendo games shouldn't have stories when some of the fan-favorite Nintendo games (as well some of my personal favorites) have engaging and compelling stories that tackle nuanced themes. Xenoblade Chronicles, Majoras Mask and Fire Emblem Three Houses are games that come to my mind when thinking of Nintendo games with compelling narratives that tackle complex themes. Granted, all these games I mentioned don't follow the "traditional family-friendly aesthetic" Nintendo is known for and that Miyamoto doesn't really have the franchises on his leash like he has Mario (at least w Xenoblade and FE which are more or less managed by Monolith Soft and Intsys respectively), but still. Like, even freaking Kirby games have surprisingly compelling stories for Pete's sake.
@@dovevanity4252 i agree with you i’d love to have more original and deep stories like in earlier paper mario oddisy and even kirby with the new release of kirby and the forgotten land and a fun fact it’s actually a wrong assessment about myamoto as he’s been getting better with letting people be more creative with the mario brand as of late hell he gave them permission to make mario + rabbids kindom battle for f…k sake like it’s awesome unfortunately it’s just not happening with paper mario at the moment which stinks a lot but at least myamoto is being more open about giving mario more freedom lately but he’s actually always been doing it as he gave them permission to have rosalinas back story all that time ago so it’s not that big of a suprise but it is welcomed
Do people not like Super Mario Sunshine!? I loved that game back in the day haha
Right? I didn't know about that until I saw the Arlo video defending the game from its critics a few years back.
This is the best video i watched about this Topic
Great Job
It is a travesty of justice that you don’t have more views.
I am a major fanboy of the Paper Mario series, particularly the first 3 (even Super, which to me, still feels like an amazing game). TTYD is one of my favorite games ever made, hell I’ve recently replayed it again with a hard mode patch of sorts since Nintendo refuse to release it again as you mention. I honestly feel as if Ryota Kawade is a genius and was almost punished for overseeing Super Paper Mario (despite it EASILY having the best story Mario has ever told, bar none).
I don’t hate Tanabe as a director like a lot of other fans of the series (though he can be incredibly stubborn and annoying). He’s also behind a lot of great series (Luigi’s Mansion, Metroid Prime, etc). But in terms of Paper Mario, the guy is eww. I did like Origami King though; much more than the two awful games prior to it. I’d probably rank TTYD as my fav, PM64 and Lot7S tied 2nd with SPM and Origami King as the last two decent entire. I loathe SS and CS.
You’ve got yourself a new sub and I hope you get the recognition you deserve!
Edit: as an aside, Mario has also gone to space prior to TTYD in both Super Mario World (I think the Star World/Special Zone is space, though maybe not) and definitely Super Mario Land 2 with Space Zone.
i always felt mario and luigi was starting to run out of steam after bowser's inside story. alpha dream could only do so much with the series's gimmick. so it felt like they were running out of ideas.
Anyone coming back after this week's Nintendo Direct?
Chuggaconroy discussed the polls on Club Nintendo and that he hopes Nintendo gets hacked so that we can see the results to the club Nintendo surveys
41:13 Tbh not really. I played through this game back when I was 9 years old and I never felt disturbed by this or thought that it was too much. In fact, I thought it was rather cool how dark this game could get. I feel like people often underestimate what kids are capable of handling. They’re not as soft or sensitive as most people might think.