Here's the two serve motion training videos I talked about in today's lesson: "The Serve Mistake Nobody Is Talking about": ruclips.net/video/Tx9UoYJHUjk/видео.html "The Secret To Legendary Serves": ruclips.net/video/RhC3higAiUk/видео.html Thanks for watching. Hope these resources are helpful!
I appreciate that you're addressing that. It really felt like a blemish on your playing, as it was the first thing I noticed with every point you served. Takes a lot to change bad habits. I look forward to seeing the results.
Just gotta say Ian, your platform stance looks WAY better than your previous stance. I think that the idea of "less moving parts" really applies to the efficiency of serve mechanics.
Shoutout Ian for taking your weakness and making it into something good. This is probably one of the better instructional videos you've released in a while. I've had the opposite problem where I've been thinking about switching from platform to pinpoint, so this was really helpful.
I sometimes have issue with my front foot as well, but I think it's because my toss isn't as consistent as I'd like. So the extra movements in front is because I'm adjusting to the toss (instead of catching it and tossing again). (4.0 level)
If you are already very comfortable with this motion Ian, just start with your right foot a bit more behind the line. A lot of players moved their foot up in the serving motions do the same. They begin their serves a few inches behind.
Moving the front left foot (for a righty server) more behind the line is one solution, but not the ideal one. I have the same issue with front left foot crossing the line (using platform stance) even though I start out with front foot ~ 2 inches behind the line. The ideal solution is start out with front foot one inch behind the line. One inch should be more than enough. And then the key is to lift the heel up. If you are on your heels, it will be almost impossible to turn the front left foot outwards and over the line. 🎾
Nice to see you address this. With your body opening up towards the back fence, there's probably two ways to fix this. 1. Ball toss more inline with your leading shoulder and a little further into the court. This will also help bomb down flat serves. 2. Bring the back foot closer inline with your front foot, by having it a good 30cm+ to the right of your front foot, it's opening your hips substantially and forcing you into that position from the get go. Definitely looks nicer now with the platform stance though.
When I started dating girlfriend I kept forgetting to take shoes off coming into her house. She didn't want to hear I would change, didn't want to hear I would work on remembering. She just wanted me to stop coming in house with shoes on. There's NO excuse for footfaults. BTW, I'm known in my circle as the only player calling his own for faults. (I foot fault on bad toss around twice a year)
Great video! I could argue that Isner also has a pinpoint stance as his feet are relatively close together when getting off the ground but the terminology isn't what's important. Although, I personally believe that the term "hybrid stance" shouldn't be used as your feet are either close together or far apart when leaving the ground. Players may have slight VARIATIONS in which they reach that position such as sliding the back foot in but it doesn't change the fact that your feet are either close or far apart when leaving the ground.
Ya I could see that. I think it depends on when the timing is of the back foot coming forward. If it's really early in the whole motion then it's basically just a pinpoint.
"I personally believe that the term "hybrid stance" shouldn't be used as your feet are either close together or far apart when leaving the ground." How would you classify the Roddick stance? 🤔
Your intro sounds like a FFA meeting! Keep up the good work with your 12 step approach. Foot faulting has always been one of my peeves and as you mentioned most if not all people who foot fault are unaware.
As a fellow lefty, I feel like the overstepping stakes a lot of torque away from the serve too - which takes away those free points we get. Comparing it to McEnroe’s twist motion for his serve versus Fed’s, it looks like Fed throws his right arm back to get some of that torque. I think that’s one of the biggest things to consider when changing your stance and trying to figure out the pace you want.
Serving is just so difficult. My serve had been poor as hell and improving or eliminating my bad motions or habits took so much work and patience. Especially the movement of my lower body had been a mess and transforming from stumbling to sloppy platform to pinpoint now wasn't easy. It's been such a journey to get there and and I had to face many backlashes like losing all the control and consistency, etc. for some stretches. I think I am almost where I like to get to and now will improve top spin/kick serve and precision to be able raise my level.
Great video, glad you are addressing the issue. I hated seeing good 4.0+ players doing this and refusing to change. And then they get to USTA sectionals and get called out rightfully so by the line judges. It's just really disrespectful and against the rules to continually foot fault, especially if there's video footage of you doing it. It's like playing basketball and always having your foot on the line and still calling it 3 pointers... Though tennis is even worst as you can't even start the point if you're foot faulting. It's also terrible seeing RUclipsrs film their play and non stop foot fault because they spend hours editing their footage so of course they see it happening. But glad you're addressing this because it's literally the first thing required to start a game of tennis and people who foot fault all the time just disrespect the game. It's also probably why tennis is such a hard game... The first shot you need to do to start a point takes a life time to master!
Nice analysis Ian, looking much better! Never noticed how much your left leg kicks up when you serve, I'm thinking that is sub-optimal and might be disrupting the kinetic chain a bit. Keep up the great job and personal journey, I think it is valuable for us lower level players to see you make corrections than to just watch top ranked ATP players serve perfectly without knowing the mechanics involved.
These serve videos have been very helpful! I used to use the "back scratch position" as a reference to ensure I was getting the correct motion, but I'm working on opening my shoulder more now. I'm curious, is there a major difference in how you serve ad side vs. deuce side? As a righty I tend to hit a harder, flatter serve from the deuce side, and a slower slice or kick serve on the ad side. Not sure if that's "smart" or just something I do out of comfort.
Thanks for finally addressing this Ian! I cringed when I’d see you foot fault on aces or foot fault on both serves during crucial points. I was surprised the roving USTA umpires didn’t call you on them.
Thank you. Another excellent video. Some questions: 1. Fixing your own crossover stance is important, of course. Why did you decide on the stance (would Monfils agree) vs. pin point? 2. Anyway, why not stand a foot or more behind the baseline to always avoid foot fault? This is what I do. I don't think being super close to the baseline is very important at my level (3.5). 3. In USTA almost everyone ALWAYS foot faults. Why is this not enforced? When I mention it to opponents, they are offended and usually freak out and tell you that you are the problem, not them. They will often claim it has to be "egregious" (whatever that means -- by one inch? by one foot?) Seems to me it is as important as any other rule in the game. If a ball is wide one inch from the line vs. one parsec does not matter. 4. Does serve matter that much? If you can kill people with the serve, that is awesome, of course. Aside from that, a decent serve seems sufficient. It seems like in 3.0-3.5 (or 6.0-7.0 doubles), serve is not critically important. Additional questions: - In teaching, do you have to be better than your students, or is just knowing strategy (especially in doubles ) sufficient? - Will you keep teaching into your 50s and 60s (and beyond)?
Thanks much for addressing those foot-fault complaints. I have recently played league match and noticed my opponent literally step into the court before hitting on his every second serve. He thinks, he hits the ball and landing inside the court. But in reality, he step in and hit it. Likely i was recording that match for my youtube channel. He got chance to see the video and realize himself. I'm glad, i didn't call those during match which may have annoyed him.
@@tamiltennisdiary yea, not much you can do. But I’m not ok with it, it is a form cheating. And most players who do it, know they do it. But just best to ignore it usually.
@@Michael-Boyer I agree with everything other than best to ignore it. If it's blatant I call it out and if they have a problem with it they can talk to the league I'm in. cheating is cheating. So far 2 people had no issues and fixed it as much as they could immediately though serve % went down but hey that's what happens when you get used to cheating. Other person whined all match and wouldn't change so i kept calling foot faults as they were all blatant like 6 inches in the court at minimum.
@@tallcatshortdog i understand but hard to tell for certain in singles, but maybe as non-returner in dubbs. But then, focusing on wrong thing usually. I mean, you can keep calling it if absolutely certain, but then you don’t get anywhere. The server just keeps on re-serving. Best way is to address it on changeovers usually if you do choose to address it. Even 6 inches is hard to tell 100% from 80 feet away.
I have only used the platform stance, and I don't find it hinders hitting thru the court *IF* make sure to concentrate on that same motion. Like you stated, not moving the feet very much allows a player to devote all attention to hips, legs, torso and arm. And, that's plenty to keep in check. Besides, Federer, Djokovic, Roddick, Cilic, Raonic and many others are tremendous servers and they use a platform stance. That's pretty good company.
I'm a big fan of the platform stance. I can do both but I find the platform to be way more versatile. The problem now is your weight transfer. You are not transferring your weight to your back foot and rocking like Federer does. This is the key to the platform stance. You need that Sampras, federer weight transfer. Try not to just move forward from the platform; you have to rock backwards and then explode upwards through the ball as you rock forwards back to platform balance. GL!
Youre the first person ive heard to refer a third stance. All along, I've been referring them as only two-Platform and pinpoint. Interesting. Also, I mentioned a few videos back that you did the foot up like I do. We're the same in that I had idea how and when I started doing that but now I'm trying to be more platform now too. So you, me and Jannick Sinner are alike :)
Ian, i have the same struggle as you. I tryed plataform stance but feels very akward to me and let my serve weaker and less acurate... I tring to fix my feet motion to not fault anymore...
Hey Ian, it would be great if in between the matches you could do a video like this sometimes. Just simple with the green screen court in the background, because it can feel like some of the discussion and feedback being talked about in the comments don't get looked at til later. I know the videos are stacked way up but it beats talking about the same thing for 6 weeks before we actually get to talking about it. That said, the new serve is way better as we've all been saying!
I totally agree. I want to do a better job of keeping up with commentary. The last two months or so has been really challenging for me personally so there's been zero extra time for this kind of stuff. Hopefully there will be a shift starting now.
Hi Ian I felt like this post was made for me I’ve got exactly the same action as you had Brought to my attention in a match , completely unaware and totally affected my game since Filmed myself and my action is a problem , not sorted it yet been told lots of conflicting ideas would it be possible to do a lesson with someone on this playing attention to the stance and loading etc thanks again Great work thanks
I think platform serves really suits you better. Always harder erase one thing to learn another, but I guess sometimes you have to take a step back to go 3 forward
from watching monfils a lot, i actually think he has switched up his stance many times over the years, and i've even seen him switch from pinpoint to a (close together) platform during matches! haha. he seems like he has the most versatile serve ever.
sorry ian i was one of the commentators on your foot fault i was not mean about it though great character you show by not making excuses i love your content thank you very much
Most people don’t even know they’re doing it unless they see their own films carefully. But their is an easy way to tell. Put a spoon on the line, see if you step on it when you serve. Don’t do it in a match of course
When I played intramurals in college, there was this one guy who foot-faulted on every serve. Not once in awhile or every other, but EVERY serve. We decided to have some fun with him one night and the group of us (probably around 20) would holler out, "FOOT FAULT!" when he served. Probably doesn't sound very funny just reading it, but trust me, it was hilarious. I've never laughed so hard in my life. The embarrassment on the guy's face after the fourth or fifth scream was legendary.
03:30 Can't figure out why Isner (and many other pros) chooses to foot fault with front foot in practice. Obviously Isner does not do it in a match with a ref watching. But why not just do it properly in practice?
With those at the tournament grounds I feel like they just want to get a lot of reps in and care more about the upper body rotation; especially because they are not ripping any of those serves. When you look at videos with them doing 100% serves they are almost always done properly
I have a similar issue with my back foot touching the baseline before I make contact. Moving to platform stance feels uncomfortable. Might be due to the fact that I have used my current stance for years. Any drills that I can use to get my foot to stop before it gets to the baseline ?
An honest video addressing an area that had become an "issue" for some. It's a habit which is probably overlooked in many at non-professional level. Still, it's an important area that warrants attention and correction. No one is perfect. I've just been removed from a "competition" for essentially hitting & serving the ball too hard. Time to find a new competition! Stick at it and don't overcomplicate. A simple platform stance is best. Forward momentum in the serve is overrated - look at Roddick, he emphasised leg drive 'upwards'. With Federer balance is key (and timing). Keep it simple
" I've just been removed from a "competition" for essentially hitting & serving the ball too hard. Time to find a new competition! " Nobody is ever removed for serving too hard. Unless you are underrating yourself. Time to play at your level and stop sandbagging.
On your new serve, your hitting shoulder is getting very close to being parallel with your non-hitting shoulder at ball impact. If you can delay your rotation slightly more to keep your hitting shoulder lagging farther behind the non-hitting shoulder, your post-impact footwork is likely to end up better. Right now, your left foot tends to kick out diagonally instead of directly behind you. I think the additional delay can be incorporated by stretching your shoulders a little more at loading.
I knew there was something fucked up about your serve, but I couldn't figure out what it was. It was that step. Cool to see that you have total awareness about it. Now your serve looks totally normal. How unusual that you got away with that foot fault form for so long.
Mannarino makes great use of stepping with his front foot to begin his motion so I don’t think it’s bad personally. I certainly wouldn’t coach him not to.
I've never called a foot fault.....pretty sure I never will because I've never looked for one. I don't recommend people focus on calling them either.....but it is still against the rules and following the rules is good 😊
@@Bubbles99718 not that I agree with the footfaulting but devils advocate I platform and stand inches behind and never foot fault and don’t call faults either it’s a distraction I feel like
Hi. Nice Video again. I like this channel very much. You are doing great work. I wish I could play 🎾 with the EP characters. Keep going 👍 Nevertheless I think there are only 2 stances: plattform or pin Point. For the pin point you need to take a step. Hybrid does not exsist. Regards from Germany
One thing I'd mention is you should consider turning off the flash photography in the stadium green screen, I found a bit distracting/annoying. Otherwise nice vid as always
Good on you to improve your serve! A couple of things I noticed with your 'new' way... I agree that you may be over-rotating on the serve, but I'm seeing that as more of a problem mostly on the AD court serves, not the deuce court serves. If you look at your alignment for an ad court serve, your shoulders, hips and feet are lined up way far to the left pointing into the doubles alley like you are intending to hit a serve to the deuce court! You're having to rotate big time to hit the ball into the ad court which makes it almost impossible to hit a flat serve (unless you are McEnroe LOL). At least that is the way I see it. Also, your left foot flies out totally in the opposite direction of your intended path of the serve (compared to Federer whose back foot just closes to his front foot). In addition, I couldn't see your ball toss, but it certainly is likely it is positioned to hit a slice, as well. Anyway, I don't see how you can possibly shift your weight in the direction you are trying to serve with that alignment! I think you need to rotate your whole setup alignment on the ad court serve at least 45 degrees clockwise. Your front foot will not be parallel with the baseline, but angled at around 45 degrees. Another thing I noticed was on your deuce court serve your leg was flying out again and several times you actually fell to the right as you were serving. So, your weight is, again, not moving towards your target. Seems almost like you are trying to spin the ball by rotating too much or something like that. Not sure exactly what is going on there... Maybe it's just because somehow that feels like a natural swing to you? It wasn't consistently happening, though. By the way, I use the platform stance, so I feel I know whereof I speak, at least I feel like I do... Good luck, Coach (in my own mind) Glenn
@@EssentialTennis At the risk of over-analyzing and not knowing whether or not you agree with my analysis above, I want to make a comparison of your ad serve with throwing a baseball. How do you align your body to most efficiently throw a ball? Basically, you position yourself sideways with your hips and feet aligned in the direction you intend to throw the ball. Then you step directly towards your target. This allows you to get your full bodyweight moving in the direction you intend to throw. Compare that to how you are aligning your hips and feet on your ad court serve. How can you possibly get your bodyweight moving in the direction you are trying to serve?? It's not impossible, but super inefficient. I think this explains why your left leg is flailing out behind you exactly in the opposite direction you are serving. That is the compensation you are doing to try to align with your target and also generate extra power in your serve. Your alignment is great for generating spin, though, with all the rotating you have to do from this stance! Now, I realize serving is different than throwing a ball and you do want the ability to spin the serve. But, it seems to me that if you are looking for a good flat serve, that your alignment is majorly working against you and should be closer to direct alignment with your target... Call me crazy, but that is what I am seeing... I'll shut up now... Coach Glenn
I'm sure a couple of inches foot fault is not going to make a difference on the outcome of a match. However, if you want ensure your "legality", just step back a few inches, maybe twice the distance you tend to footfault, and you'll be fine. It won't make that much of a difference and it will help everyone feel better. Heck, I can serve 3-6 feet behind the baseline and still make my serves. As they say, it's all in the mind. Be confident in your serve and you can serve from anywhere.
You said it is "also a foot-fault to CROSS the center line". That is very unclear in tennis because the center marker is like two inches wide or so. Is it or is it not treated the same as barely touching the baseline?? I see pros on TV often edge barely into the center line but not go over it and they don't get called for foot fault. VERY AMBIGUOUS
60+% players foot faults, probably even higher. Not every time necessarily, but often. Most of the time they don’t care or don’t care to correct it, it’s unfortunate. Glad you’re trying to correct it. Your new stance should improve your serve too I’d think eventually.
It’s hard to notice when you’re playing unless blatant, which at least 10-15% players are blatant, likely higher. But most of the time, the players are just inching barely on the line, maybe not always, but often. I can’t remember the last dubbs match I played where at least one of the other 3 players doesn’t. That’s 33.3%, conservatively. Just tonight, I didn’t look often and not at everyone, but including the 2 courts next to me(all dubbs), I noticed 5-6 of the other 11 players foot faulting. And that’s barely watching.
Im staggered you didnt know you were getting the backfoot past the front. I can feel where my feet are when they come together, plus you record yourself so often. No idea how you missed it lol. Pretty much 100% of high level coaches say not to do that, you never see any pros do it and yet i see people do it all the time.
As you get older you get less flexible and you slow down. When this happens your body will cheat. Your feet are showing this cheating, subconsciously your feet were moving to make up for your loss of trunk rotation. Your trunk rotation is less flexible and slower as you get older. Your bad habit of your feet was to make up for your loss of flexibility and trunk rotation speed. I have seen the same in my tennis game and many others. Luckily you are still thin as it gets even worse when the dad bod sets in.
Here's the two serve motion training videos I talked about in today's lesson: "The Serve Mistake Nobody Is Talking about": ruclips.net/video/Tx9UoYJHUjk/видео.html "The Secret To Legendary Serves": ruclips.net/video/RhC3higAiUk/видео.html Thanks for watching. Hope these resources are helpful!
I appreciate that you're addressing that. It really felt like a blemish on your playing, as it was the first thing I noticed with every point you served. Takes a lot to change bad habits. I look forward to seeing the results.
Always appreciate your support, Brian!
Just gotta say Ian, your platform stance looks WAY better than your previous stance. I think that the idea of "less moving parts" really applies to the efficiency of serve mechanics.
Appreciate the feedback, Durpen!
Shoutout Ian for taking your weakness and making it into something good. This is probably one of the better instructional videos you've released in a while. I've had the opposite problem where I've been thinking about switching from platform to pinpoint, so this was really helpful.
I sometimes have issue with my front foot as well, but I think it's because my toss isn't as consistent as I'd like. So the extra movements in front is because I'm adjusting to the toss (instead of catching it and tossing again). (4.0 level)
Yup, that's really likely. Super common issue. Here's a drill you can try: ruclips.net/video/oOavRORnrk8/видео.html
If you are already very comfortable with this motion Ian, just start with your right foot a bit more behind the line. A lot of players moved their foot up in the serving motions do the same. They begin their serves a few inches behind.
Hm....ya that's true. I'd rather just keep it still but its not the end of the world if I adjust it a little bit.
Moving the front left foot (for a righty server) more behind the line is one solution, but not the ideal one. I have the same issue with front left foot crossing the line (using platform stance) even though I start out with front foot ~ 2 inches behind the line. The ideal solution is start out with front foot one inch behind the line. One inch should be more than enough. And then the key is to lift the heel up. If you are on your heels, it will be almost impossible to turn the front left foot outwards and over the line. 🎾
Please keep making videos about working on your serve. The updates are helpful. It’s a good process.
Glad you're enjoying them, Charles!
Great progress report, Ian! Serve’s looking better already!
Thanks so much, Kathy! Always a work in progress.
Nice to see you address this.
With your body opening up towards the back fence, there's probably two ways to fix this.
1. Ball toss more inline with your leading shoulder and a little further into the court. This will also help bomb down flat serves.
2. Bring the back foot closer inline with your front foot, by having it a good 30cm+ to the right of your front foot, it's opening your hips substantially and forcing you into that position from the get go.
Definitely looks nicer now with the platform stance though.
Appreciate the feedback, Ben!
Constructive Self Analysis, probably one of the best ways for growth! Way to go Ian!
Totally agree, Munditimum!
I had the same problem and have also since switched to the wide stance. The added stability helps the toss methinks.
Awesome, glad it worked for you!
When I started dating girlfriend I kept forgetting to take shoes off coming into her house.
She didn't want to hear I would change, didn't want to hear I would work on remembering.
She just wanted me to stop coming in house with shoes on.
There's NO excuse for footfaults.
BTW, I'm known in my circle as the only player calling his own for faults. (I foot fault on bad toss around twice a year)
So happy to see you address this issue!
Thanks for watching, merakim!
Great video! I could argue that Isner also has a pinpoint stance as his feet are relatively close together when getting off the ground but the terminology isn't what's important.
Although, I personally believe that the term "hybrid stance" shouldn't be used as your feet are either close together or far apart when leaving the ground. Players may have slight VARIATIONS in which they reach that position such as sliding the back foot in but it doesn't change the fact that your feet are either close or far apart when leaving the ground.
Ya I could see that. I think it depends on when the timing is of the back foot coming forward. If it's really early in the whole motion then it's basically just a pinpoint.
"I personally believe that the term "hybrid stance" shouldn't be used as your feet are either close together or far apart when leaving the ground."
How would you classify the Roddick stance? 🤔
Your intro sounds like a FFA meeting! Keep up the good work with your 12 step approach. Foot faulting has always been one of my peeves and as you mentioned most if not all people who foot fault are unaware.
Work in progress!
Great video! The serve looks very good, I feel like you are already getting more pop and spin on it as a result of the change. Keep up the hard work!
Appreciate your support, Erik!
As a fellow lefty, I feel like the overstepping stakes a lot of torque away from the serve too - which takes away those free points we get. Comparing it to McEnroe’s twist motion for his serve versus Fed’s, it looks like Fed throws his right arm back to get some of that torque. I think that’s one of the biggest things to consider when changing your stance and trying to figure out the pace you want.
Serving is just so difficult.
My serve had been poor as hell and improving or eliminating my bad motions or habits took so much work and patience. Especially the movement of my lower body had been a mess and transforming from stumbling to sloppy platform to pinpoint now wasn't easy. It's been such a journey to get there and and I had to face many backlashes like losing all the control and consistency, etc. for some stretches.
I think I am almost where I like to get to and now will improve top spin/kick serve and precision to be able raise my level.
Great video, glad you are addressing the issue. I hated seeing good 4.0+ players doing this and refusing to change. And then they get to USTA sectionals and get called out rightfully so by the line judges. It's just really disrespectful and against the rules to continually foot fault, especially if there's video footage of you doing it. It's like playing basketball and always having your foot on the line and still calling it 3 pointers... Though tennis is even worst as you can't even start the point if you're foot faulting. It's also terrible seeing RUclipsrs film their play and non stop foot fault because they spend hours editing their footage so of course they see it happening.
But glad you're addressing this because it's literally the first thing required to start a game of tennis and people who foot fault all the time just disrespect the game. It's also probably why tennis is such a hard game... The first shot you need to do to start a point takes a life time to master!
Appreciate the feedback, JL!
Bingo!
Nice analysis Ian, looking much better! Never noticed how much your left leg kicks up when you serve, I'm thinking that is sub-optimal and might be disrupting the kinetic chain a bit. Keep up the great job and personal journey, I think it is valuable for us lower level players to see you make corrections than to just watch top ranked ATP players serve perfectly without knowing the mechanics involved.
These serve videos have been very helpful! I used to use the "back scratch position" as a reference to ensure I was getting the correct motion, but I'm working on opening my shoulder more now. I'm curious, is there a major difference in how you serve ad side vs. deuce side? As a righty I tend to hit a harder, flatter serve from the deuce side, and a slower slice or kick serve on the ad side. Not sure if that's "smart" or just something I do out of comfort.
Thanks for finally addressing this Ian! I cringed when I’d see you foot fault on aces or foot fault on both serves during crucial points. I was surprised the roving USTA umpires didn’t call you on them.
I was honestly also really surprised. I got warned twice. Never called for it.
You could also try a stance like Roddick or Holger Rune. They have a platform stance but the feet are closer together than typical.
I think I've exhausted all my Foot Fault jokes...
😆
No foot faults? I think I'll serve from the service line. That's why it's called that, right? Haha
😆
Thank you. Another excellent video.
Some questions:
1. Fixing your own crossover stance is important, of course. Why did you decide on the stance (would Monfils agree) vs. pin point?
2. Anyway, why not stand a foot or more behind the baseline to always avoid foot fault? This is what I do. I don't think being super close to the baseline is very important at my level (3.5).
3. In USTA almost everyone ALWAYS foot faults. Why is this not enforced? When I mention it to opponents, they are offended and usually freak out and tell you that you are the problem, not them. They will often claim it has to be "egregious" (whatever that means -- by one inch? by one foot?) Seems to me it is as important as any other rule in the game. If a ball is wide one inch from the line vs. one parsec does not matter.
4. Does serve matter that much? If you can kill people with the serve, that is awesome, of course. Aside from that, a decent serve seems sufficient. It seems like in 3.0-3.5 (or 6.0-7.0 doubles), serve is not critically important.
Additional questions:
- In teaching, do you have to be better than your students, or is just knowing strategy (especially in doubles ) sufficient?
- Will you keep teaching into your 50s and 60s (and beyond)?
Thanks much for addressing those foot-fault complaints.
I have recently played league match and noticed my opponent literally step into the court before hitting on his every second serve. He thinks, he hits the ball and landing inside the court. But in reality, he step in and hit it. Likely i was recording that match for my youtube channel. He got chance to see the video and realize himself. I'm glad, i didn't call those during match which may have annoyed him.
More players foot fault than dont, it’s unfortunate. I’ve just learned to ignore it. Plus, super hard to call on opp, especially in singles.
@@Michael-Boyer can’t agree more. I’m ok with that as it’s common & not gonna hurt more in matches
@@tamiltennisdiary yea, not much you can do. But I’m not ok with it, it is a form cheating. And most players who do it, know they do it. But just best to ignore it usually.
@@Michael-Boyer I agree with everything other than best to ignore it. If it's blatant I call it out and if they have a problem with it they can talk to the league I'm in. cheating is cheating. So far 2 people had no issues and fixed it as much as they could immediately though serve % went down but hey that's what happens when you get used to cheating. Other person whined all match and wouldn't change so i kept calling foot faults as they were all blatant like 6 inches in the court at minimum.
@@tallcatshortdog i understand but hard to tell for certain in singles, but maybe as non-returner in dubbs. But then, focusing on wrong thing usually. I mean, you can keep calling it if absolutely certain, but then you don’t get anywhere. The server just keeps on re-serving. Best way is to address it on changeovers usually if you do choose to address it. Even 6 inches is hard to tell 100% from 80 feet away.
I have only used the platform stance, and I don't find it hinders hitting thru the court *IF* make sure to concentrate on that same motion. Like you stated, not moving the feet very much allows a player to devote all attention to hips, legs, torso and arm. And, that's plenty to keep in check. Besides, Federer, Djokovic, Roddick, Cilic, Raonic and many others are tremendous servers and they use a platform stance. That's pretty good company.
In the olden days, Sampras used the platform stance as well. Not a bad server either!
I'm a big fan of the platform stance. I can do both but I find the platform to be way more versatile.
The problem now is your weight transfer. You are not transferring your weight to your back foot and rocking like Federer does. This is the key to the platform stance. You need that Sampras, federer weight transfer. Try not to just move forward from the platform; you have to rock backwards and then explode upwards through the ball as you rock forwards back to platform balance. GL!
Youre the first person ive heard to refer a third stance. All along, I've been referring them as only two-Platform and pinpoint. Interesting.
Also, I mentioned a few videos back that you did the foot up like I do. We're the same in that I had idea how and when I started doing that but now I'm trying to be more platform now too. So you, me and Jannick Sinner are alike :)
Thanks for watching, kdoublec!
Where should you stand when serving or receiving? How to you defend serve to avoid breaking if you have "power leaks" as Peter Freeman calls it?
Great questions, J! I'll definitely use them in a future lesson.
@@EssentialTennis I only stand in one spot, try to serve to one spot. The games are never close.
Ian, i have the same struggle as you. I tryed plataform stance but feels very akward to me and let my serve weaker and less acurate... I tring to fix my feet motion to not fault anymore...
Hey Ian, it would be great if in between the matches you could do a video like this sometimes. Just simple with the green screen court in the background, because it can feel like some of the discussion and feedback being talked about in the comments don't get looked at til later. I know the videos are stacked way up but it beats talking about the same thing for 6 weeks before we actually get to talking about it.
That said, the new serve is way better as we've all been saying!
I totally agree. I want to do a better job of keeping up with commentary. The last two months or so has been really challenging for me personally so there's been zero extra time for this kind of stuff. Hopefully there will be a shift starting now.
Hi Ian
I felt like this post was made for me I’ve got exactly the same action as you had
Brought to my attention in a match , completely unaware and totally affected my game since
Filmed myself and my action is a problem , not sorted it yet been told lots of conflicting ideas would it be possible to do a lesson with someone on this playing attention to the stance and loading etc thanks again
Great work thanks
I think platform serves really suits you better. Always harder erase one thing to learn another, but I guess sometimes you have to take a step back to go 3 forward
Love that attitude, Marcos!
from watching monfils a lot, i actually think he has switched up his stance many times over the years, and i've even seen him switch from pinpoint to a (close together) platform during matches! haha. he seems like he has the most versatile serve ever.
sorry ian i was one of the commentators on your foot fault i was not mean about it though great character you show by not making excuses i love your content thank you very much
Most people don’t even know they’re doing it unless they see their own films carefully. But their is an easy way to tell. Put a spoon on the line, see if you step on it when you serve. Don’t do it in a match of course
When I played intramurals in college, there was this one guy who foot-faulted on every serve. Not once in awhile or every other, but EVERY serve.
We decided to have some fun with him one night and the group of us (probably around 20) would holler out, "FOOT FAULT!" when he served. Probably doesn't sound very funny just reading it, but trust me, it was hilarious. I've never laughed so hard in my life. The embarrassment on the guy's face after the fourth or fifth scream was legendary.
Sounds like bullying, but perhaps it was to this story than you told ( perhaps he had been told many times before and ignoring or being arrogant)
03:30
Can't figure out why Isner (and many other pros) chooses to foot fault with front foot in practice. Obviously Isner does not do it in a match with a ref watching. But why not just do it properly in practice?
With those at the tournament grounds I feel like they just want to get a lot of reps in and care more about the upper body rotation; especially because they are not ripping any of those serves. When you look at videos with them doing 100% serves they are almost always done properly
I have a similar issue with my back foot touching the baseline before I make contact. Moving to platform stance feels uncomfortable. Might be due to the fact that I have used my current stance for years. Any drills that I can use to get my foot to stop before it gets to the baseline ?
An honest video addressing an area that had become an "issue" for some. It's a habit which is probably overlooked in many at non-professional level. Still, it's an important area that warrants attention and correction. No one is perfect. I've just been removed from a "competition" for essentially hitting & serving the ball too hard. Time to find a new competition! Stick at it and don't overcomplicate. A simple platform stance is best. Forward momentum in the serve is overrated - look at Roddick, he emphasised leg drive 'upwards'. With Federer balance is key (and timing). Keep it simple
Wow, definitely time for you to find new competition, haha. Cheers, UAP!
" I've just been removed from a "competition" for essentially hitting & serving the ball too hard. Time to find a new competition! "
Nobody is ever removed for serving too hard. Unless you are underrating yourself. Time to play at your level and stop sandbagging.
On your new serve, your hitting shoulder is getting very close to being parallel with your non-hitting shoulder at ball impact. If you can delay your rotation slightly more to keep your hitting shoulder lagging farther behind the non-hitting shoulder, your post-impact footwork is likely to end up better. Right now, your left foot tends to kick out diagonally instead of directly behind you. I think the additional delay can be incorporated by stretching your shoulders a little more at loading.
I knew there was something fucked up about your serve, but I couldn't figure out what it was. It was that step. Cool to see that you have total awareness about it. Now your serve looks totally normal.
How unusual that you got away with that foot fault form for so long.
Mannarino makes great use of stepping with his front foot to begin his motion so I don’t think it’s bad personally. I certainly wouldn’t coach him not to.
Interesting!
Is the open hip/rear leg crossing over that much of a technical issue? Guy Forget did it and had a very strong serve.
This was pointed out over a year ago but I'm glad you now see the importance of calling foot faults to prevent bad habits.
I've never called a foot fault.....pretty sure I never will because I've never looked for one. I don't recommend people focus on calling them either.....but it is still against the rules and following the rules is good 😊
@@EssentialTennis ok IAN👍
@@EssentialTennis as a chronic foot faulter it makes sense that you would never call one.
It's bs but it makes sense
@@Bubbles99718 He made an entire video about why foot faults don’t matter! Self justification, much?
@@Bubbles99718 not that I agree with the footfaulting but devils advocate I platform and stand inches behind and never foot fault and don’t call faults either it’s a distraction I feel like
Hi. Nice Video again. I like this channel very much. You are doing great work. I wish I could play 🎾 with the EP characters. Keep going 👍
Nevertheless I think there are only 2 stances: plattform or pin Point. For the pin point you need to take a step. Hybrid does not exsist.
Regards from Germany
Monfils starts with both feet together, so he doesn't take a step. Also, Roddick was half way between wide and pinpoint.
0:06 Nice scissor kick sequence, man! ✂️✂️✂️
Still my number 1 go to tennis channel 👍
Interesting you see the upper body/shoulder turn as a negative. I’ve heard the more shoulder turn, the better (technically).
Up to a point. You can bend a spring too far so it loses rebound strength.
The first oddity I notice isn’t the foot faulting it’s the extreme way your left leg kicks out on your serve.
One thing I'd mention is you should consider turning off the flash photography in the stadium green screen, I found a bit distracting/annoying.
Otherwise nice vid as always
Good on you to improve your serve! A couple of things I noticed with your 'new' way...
I agree that you may be over-rotating on the serve, but I'm seeing that as more of a problem mostly on the AD court serves, not the deuce court serves.
If you look at your alignment for an ad court serve, your shoulders, hips and feet are lined up way far to the left pointing into the doubles alley like you are intending to hit a serve to the deuce court! You're having to rotate big time to hit the ball into the ad court which makes it almost impossible to hit a flat serve (unless you are McEnroe LOL). At least that is the way I see it. Also, your left foot flies out totally in the opposite direction of your intended path of the serve (compared to Federer whose back foot just closes to his front foot). In addition, I couldn't see your ball toss, but it certainly is likely it is positioned to hit a slice, as well.
Anyway, I don't see how you can possibly shift your weight in the direction you are trying to serve with that alignment! I think you need to rotate your whole setup alignment on the ad court serve at least 45 degrees clockwise. Your front foot will not be parallel with the baseline, but angled at around 45 degrees.
Another thing I noticed was on your deuce court serve your leg was flying out again and several times you actually fell to the right as you were serving. So, your weight is, again, not moving towards your target. Seems almost like you are trying to spin the ball by rotating too much or something like that. Not sure exactly what is going on there... Maybe it's just because somehow that feels like a natural swing to you? It wasn't consistently happening, though.
By the way, I use the platform stance, so I feel I know whereof I speak, at least I feel like I do...
Good luck,
Coach (in my own mind) Glenn
Appreciate all the feedback, Glenn! Best wishes.
@@EssentialTennis Expect my invoice for services rendered soon...
@@EssentialTennis At the risk of over-analyzing and not knowing whether or not you agree with my analysis above, I want to make a comparison of your ad serve with throwing a baseball.
How do you align your body to most efficiently throw a ball? Basically, you position yourself sideways with your hips and feet aligned in the direction you intend to throw the ball. Then you step directly towards your target. This allows you to get your full bodyweight moving in the direction you intend to throw.
Compare that to how you are aligning your hips and feet on your ad court serve. How can you possibly get your bodyweight moving in the direction you are trying to serve?? It's not impossible, but super inefficient. I think this explains why your left leg is flailing out behind you exactly in the opposite direction you are serving. That is the compensation you are doing to try to align with your target and also generate extra power in your serve. Your alignment is great for generating spin, though, with all the rotating you have to do from this stance!
Now, I realize serving is different than throwing a ball and you do want the ability to spin the serve. But, it seems to me that if you are looking for a good flat serve, that your alignment is majorly working against you and should be closer to direct alignment with your target...
Call me crazy, but that is what I am seeing...
I'll shut up now...
Coach Glenn
what if we cross the center mark in the air wile serving.. is that called as fault?
In the air is fine, it's contact with the ground that causes the fault
I'm sure a couple of inches foot fault is not going to make a difference on the outcome of a match. However, if you want ensure your "legality", just step back a few inches, maybe twice the distance you tend to footfault, and you'll be fine. It won't make that much of a difference and it will help everyone feel better. Heck, I can serve 3-6 feet behind the baseline and still make my serves. As they say, it's all in the mind. Be confident in your serve and you can serve from anywhere.
you also do a kind of jig when you serve. Your left leg flies up and out. Doesn't look especially efficient. But Im sure you realise
The only place recreational players will ever hear foot faults
Can you walk into the service? would it be called a foot fault?
Ian, this is common on club players. Including me.. 😂😂😅
I feel like we need to all look at and copy Feliciano Lopez's butter-smooth serve
Just place a birthday 🥳 hat on the service line. 😂
You said it is "also a foot-fault to CROSS the center line". That is very unclear in tennis because the center marker is like two inches wide or so. Is it or is it not treated the same as barely touching the baseline?? I see pros on TV often edge barely into the center line but not go over it and they don't get called for foot fault. VERY AMBIGUOUS
How about Jeff Salzenstein analyze ur serve?
I'm sure he'd do an awesome analysis!
@@EssentialTennis Peter did it, ask him how it went.
60+% players foot faults, probably even higher. Not every time necessarily, but often. Most of the time they don’t care or don’t care to correct it, it’s unfortunate. Glad you’re trying to correct it. Your new stance should improve your serve too I’d think eventually.
60? May be 5
Oh no, watch carefully sometime. Even players who mostly careful about it usually are still often stepping on a line barely.
@@Michael-Boyer I've found that the ones who do are chronic about it. And that's not many.
It’s hard to notice when you’re playing unless blatant, which at least 10-15% players are blatant, likely higher. But most of the time, the players are just inching barely on the line, maybe not always, but often.
I can’t remember the last dubbs match I played where at least one of the other 3 players doesn’t. That’s 33.3%, conservatively.
Just tonight, I didn’t look often and not at everyone, but including the 2 courts next to me(all dubbs), I noticed 5-6 of the other 11 players foot faulting. And that’s barely watching.
Random stats alert
Platform stance also looks better aesthetically in my opinion, maybe because Federer uses it lol
Ya, I know what you mean. Something more clean and simple about it.
Just stand farther away from the line, until you get your groove back.
The example of Isner is actually foot fault as his front foot is clearly on the line.
Sooo during editing u didn't see this. All righty
Do you want him to edit the serves out where there are ff?
YOU have a footfault problem? Maybe, but others have a care-way-too-much-behind-their-keyboard problem.
😆 Maybe, but there's truth to it.
yeah there is no reason for people to care about the rules
Your brain functions improperly. Work on that. And stop foot faulting
@@JanitorIsBack exactly we need more rec players with this mindset on the courts!
you have problem with critisim or what
Im staggered you didnt know you were getting the backfoot past the front. I can feel where my feet are when they come together, plus you record yourself so often. No idea how you missed it lol. Pretty much 100% of high level coaches say not to do that, you never see any pros do it and yet i see people do it all the time.
Agree. Can’t take him seriously as a tennis source.
Foot fault police are almost as bad at grammer police lol
As you get older you get less flexible and you slow down. When this happens your body will cheat. Your feet are showing this cheating, subconsciously your feet were moving to make up for your loss of trunk rotation. Your trunk rotation is less flexible and slower as you get older. Your bad habit of your feet was to make up for your loss of flexibility and trunk rotation speed. I have seen the same in my tennis game and many others. Luckily you are still thin as it gets even worse when the dad bod sets in.
Just change it to a pin point. Problem solved.
Your left leg is flaring. Waist of energy and power.
I would touch the line all day and night. It feels great!!!! If someone calls me out, I will say “seriously dude?!”
Seriously dude