THANK YOU FOR THIS! -- I've been playing guitar for 20 years, and frequently use visualisation to aid in practicing new songs, etc. and, have also done so in dreams (unless it's an electric guitar - in which case the amps never work... LOL) HOWEVER, if I hadn't already have the knowledge and experience of playing guitar in the first place, I would have NOTHING to base those visualisations upon. Like you said, "Something doesn't come from nothing!" PS. Really loving the new video format. The low edit, podcast style makes these videos much easier to watch before going to bed!
Thanks for sharing that Avalon. And yes, you're absolutely right. As a musician myself I relate entirely. The brain is wonderful at rewiring existing information, but it's not magic! And I'm really glad the new format is working for you, I far prefer creating content of this type. It allows me more space to focus on ideas. And (frankly) I find some of the bombast of RUclips a little childish at times. Works for some subjects, but not really for this channel.
I always assumed that you can practise skills you already have, like playing an instrument, or practise movements that you have already mastered at least the basics of in waking life. And now to watch the video.
Exactly, dreams as a way to view established things from a new perspective, not learn things completely unknown. Unless, of course, the “unknown” is a combination of already known facts.
I suppose one might have a dream where they believe they've learned something new, only to wake and discover it was a bunch of nonsense. ..but that wouldn't be a logical lucid dream.
I've lost count of how many times that has happened. Often with poetry or some other "important" idea, which upon awakening turned out to just be the brain pulling a fast one. Often utter nonsense "deep" statements like "the green cat is not on the moon". At the time it seemed so profound, but that's the logic-free brain for you!
@@DanielLoveOrg lol! Yeah, I've "written" songs in dreams that I thought were pretty amazing, only to wake and realize it's the simplest riff imaginable.
Basically you can't learn a language and stuff, but you can learn a WHOLE bunch using your own knowledge, as an extremely creative person I can say this 100%. Also I would say you can learn new " Skills " as talking on a stage, talking to girls, talking to strangers etc in a LD. Running simulations and things alike are powerful, I believe we know more than we know.
I remember reading about this in Explore The World Of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen LaBerge. You can certainly use your skills and think in new ways about things you already know and how to refine that but you can't just learn things you don't know.
Very entertaining video! My mind has been flooded with information lately and it's been impacting what I've been wanting to do with my dreams. In college, I'm taking an art history class (because it's required, but that's besides the point) and with so many paintings and artwork I've been exposed to, I've been wanting to try and use techniques found in them, even if its just imagining an outcome at the point. I often have a drawing or imagine in mind of something I want to make but the physical comparison to the mental image always fails me. If I could make a mental image of what I image exist in a dream, my hope is that I could study it and, in the morning, use my recall and write down notes with the image still fresh in my brain. While it would probably be simpler to just imagine it in waking life, my mental imagination can be quite vague and not very detailed. It'll take a lot of work but I think it may be possible. Or maybe my mind has turned to twaddle. Experimentation! I think that's all I really have to say today so sorry for the short comment! I remember seeing a claim like this when I got into lucid dreaming initially and it's sad that this misled information is becoming a fungi online. Either way, thanks for the brainfood and the great video!
I’ve been experimenting with practicing my dribbling and shooting skills in my lucid dreams. I play basketball once a week, but I only have a lucid dream about once a week. I’m starting to see some progress that I believe is from the training in my dream. It’s quit interesting.
@@mikkareads yes, I've recently gotten absolutely obsessed with it, plus I am making content on it every day, so my brain has been in full lucid dream mode lately haha. I have multiple a week, but I'm only able to take advantage of it about once per week. The other times I just wake up too quick
I know that from a more spiritual "thought shapes reality" perspective most cultures believed if you do something enough in a dream it can be done in real life with time
I was literally just thinking over this concept yesterday, my brain has been spinning over dream stuff since I hit my second lucid dream two days ago. This is the stuff that reminds me to stop moping around when life seems to be doing nothing and get out there and live a life worth dreaming about.
Im so happy i was right when you said no it got me scared but you went on to describe exactly what i was theorizing i was imagining say practicing woth a guitar in real life a d watching youtube vids on how to play then practicing it in licid dreams
Glad you made a concrete distinction between new skills and practicing existing ones. Some people took the stage fright musician testimonial from the start of “Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming” and ran to the hills with it. Just don’t let LessWrong hear about not being able to just logic your way into new knowledge with nothing, they will get very angry and you won’t hear the end of it 🙃
Fascinating stuff. This makes sense. As a chaos mage, aka a crazy artist who ‘hacks’ my ‘computer’ to obtain certain goals, I believe that anything connecting the subconscious more easily to the conscious mind is what magic is. I sometimes have visions in my dreams or dreams that seemingly predict the future a few days or sometimes weeks before, it’s often something that happens when I draw, or make music as well. But it’s just my subconscious seeping through showing me things that deep down that part of me already knows, not truly new information, but uncovered information. Once I became consciously aware of certain patterns I noticed certain trends that I can now use in the future to make accurate guesses as to small things in my future, but it works in a seemingly completely different way for me compared to other so called ‘mages’ I’ve observed. I want to learn lucid dreaming in part to further communicate with my own subconscious, and learn, or more aptly recognize more hidden pieces among other reasons. I am at heart a storyteller, any tool in my arsenal I can learn to further either adapt or recognize my own story is certainly a tool worth learning as much as I can about. I won’t deny I have some very illogical, possibly even absurd beliefs, but Knowledge is one of my ‘gods’ and my method of prayer to that concept is learning as much as I can about the subjects I find interesting. 💚
Great topic! I’ve wondered about the limits of my intelligence during dream time and whether I might increase it during sleep and dreams or if I could perhaps have a breakthrough- Boing!!! Visually I can put together a room quite well including interesting characters and art work on the walls, even the sound of voices and music from performers say on stage. But then suppose I hear someone speaking Spanish. I get excited and introduce myself. Suddenly a reality occurs to me as I begin speaking to this new Dreamtime friend. I can only speak Spanish as well as I ever have and my comprehension of what they are saying back to me is about the same as it ever was. I feel a great energy speaking the Spanish that I know but it has a somewhat repetitive quality to it. Drat! I should study more! Lately my questions and goals that I want to address in dreams relate to my own feelings of what it is I really desire. Perhaps there are clues to what could help me in the waking world. Am I capable of knowing something about myself In a dream that I am not already aware of consciously? Perhaps it’s validation I seek.
At the beginning of November, I couldn’t remember any dream, and now last night I had my first lucid dream, it was really short, I didn’t use an alarm because I was afraid it would wake my family up, it was a normal dream and I suddenly starting flying up and then I realized i was dreaming, the first thing I did was grab on to a pole but I couldn’t grab on because it was a Minecraft pillar, I looked at my hands and they where VR hands, I felt the headset on my face and then I woke up and it was 5AM, I tried re-entering the lucid dream and my plan was to take the headset off, I fell back to sleep and didn’t enter a lucid dream again
Yes, this makes sense. I believe you can learn “new” thing but only if you have some pre existing info you can build from. Just a little side story: When I didn’t know how to read a timetable for buses I imagined what would someone tell me if I asked them. I got the right answer from myself and everything made sense suddenly. I must have had all the information scattered somewhere in my mind.
now that i am more familiar with dreams and can get lucid dreams every once in a while, I'm curious how much I can improve my visualization by trying to visualize within a dream. in my last lucid dream, I saw myself in a mirror, and what felt like imagining it, changed the reflection to another person and then pull them out of the mirror. seems like a really good path to better dream control.
That's definitely an interesting path to experiment with. It's at this point where lucid dreaming very much becomes something of a lone-journey, because your psychological "code" is going to be wired absolutely uniquely. For example, I essentially have aphantasia in waking life, but have been lucid dreaming for a lifetime, so my dream control approach will be wired around how my mind operates. It seems to me that you've stumbled across something that works for you, so that's definitely the first clue that you should experiment with it further! This is where you start to become a coder for your own mind, and it's time to start looking at the mechanisms in place. I wish I could be more specific, but we're dealing with a genuine mystery and unknown here, namely the nature of self, mind etc. Now is definitely a good time to record as many details of your personal experimentation as possible. It's likely you'll find patterns that will help you to establish what works best for you. And thank you again for your support!
If it were true, ah, all the things we could learn … It's like dreaming of places we've never visited and know little to nothing about - we'd just get a conglomeration of our best guesses.
Slightly related point, but it's funny to me that the idea you "already know everything" and just have to learn it in a dream, is similar to the Socratic/Platonic idea put forth in the Republic that all learning is simply "remembering".
To me answer is maybe yes. That what you talking about is not learning skills. It's just getting them. Of course it's impossible but that's not learning step by step like in real life.
Interesting concept to think about… you’ve made a great point about being able to learn anything would require that we already know it all, would you say that dreaming is valid practice for a skill that has an experience-based aspect to its mastery?
Ok so yeah we can't learn new skills and this can be a stupid question but for example, in the day I am studying a certain subject can I in the dream reapt my studying or take a pen and write down what I remember? And if it's a yes, what happen if I am with a Dream character, will my self help my self ?
alright so you're saying you can practice in lucid dreams or day dreams but you can't get the new skills . Meaning you can learn something in waking life and then do massive practice about it in dreams?
I'd just like to be able to lucid dream again. I haven't been able to for months and none of my go-to techniques are working :( Does anyone know someone who does actual coaching for a reasonable rate? I love the lucid mystic like pancakes but 200+ a session is a little pricey.
Nice Video. But I always assumed , that a person that talked about learning skills in lucid dreams mean training skills you already have. Would it be possible to make a video how to get from a normal lucid dream to a logical lucid dream? This morning I had a lucid dream and during a nap I had several Lucid dreams. But I am just not fully there. In waking life I was with my parents on a observation tower. Because of my fear of height I felt a little bit unwell, but also excited and it was very great on this tower. But in a lucid dream when I am flying it just feels not so great. I have no excitement, no fear of height. I do not wake up with "Wao I was flying" like I guess I would feel if I would be able to fly in waking life. I can remember that even during the flying I was thinking "Why is this not more exiting".
Sadly not. There are a lot of videos and sites that really exaggerate this concept. Frankly even the ability to practice skills in a lucid dream is generally exaggerated. The few studies on it are not particularly great examples of science, with a lot of holes in their methodology. The channel will expand on logical lucid dreaming over time, so I'll definitely cover ways to help with that issue. What you're experiencing isn't all that uncommon, and generally a good sign that you're heading on the right track but aren't quite there yet.
I tend to reserve those things for tuition students, my books, and the occasional live stream. But there is a video of a dream report here: ruclips.net/video/U_wDHYU2dFQ/видео.html
No, you can get creative with ideas and work with prexisting skills, but you cannot learn something new. Frankly even the claims of practice are greatly exaggerated. Not to be rude or embarrass you, but this may save you some problems down the road.... you don't need to capitalise every word in a sentence.
THANK YOU FOR THIS! -- I've been playing guitar for 20 years, and frequently use visualisation to aid in practicing new songs, etc. and, have also done so in dreams (unless it's an electric guitar - in which case the amps never work... LOL) HOWEVER, if I hadn't already have the knowledge and experience of playing guitar in the first place, I would have NOTHING to base those visualisations upon. Like you said, "Something doesn't come from nothing!"
PS. Really loving the new video format. The low edit, podcast style makes these videos much easier to watch before going to bed!
Thanks for sharing that Avalon. And yes, you're absolutely right. As a musician myself I relate entirely. The brain is wonderful at rewiring existing information, but it's not magic!
And I'm really glad the new format is working for you, I far prefer creating content of this type. It allows me more space to focus on ideas. And (frankly) I find some of the bombast of RUclips a little childish at times. Works for some subjects, but not really for this channel.
And yet with all that wonderful neurological web of wonder, IT STILL CAN'T MAKE A F'ng AMPLIFIER WORK! Lmaooo!
Comment for Bob the always-hungry algorithm! The topic sounds very interesting today!
BOB
I always assumed that you can practise skills you already have, like playing an instrument, or practise movements that you have already mastered at least the basics of in waking life. And now to watch the video.
A very clearly put mindset. Many people need this clarification
Exactly, dreams as a way to view established things from a new perspective, not learn things completely unknown. Unless, of course, the “unknown” is a combination of already known facts.
I suppose one might have a dream where they believe they've learned something new, only to wake and discover it was a bunch of nonsense. ..but that wouldn't be a logical lucid dream.
I've lost count of how many times that has happened. Often with poetry or some other "important" idea, which upon awakening turned out to just be the brain pulling a fast one. Often utter nonsense "deep" statements like "the green cat is not on the moon". At the time it seemed so profound, but that's the logic-free brain for you!
@@DanielLoveOrg lol! Yeah, I've "written" songs in dreams that I thought were pretty amazing, only to wake and realize it's the simplest riff imaginable.
Basically you can't learn a language and stuff, but you can learn a WHOLE bunch using your own knowledge, as an extremely creative person I can say this 100%. Also I would say you can learn new " Skills " as talking on a stage, talking to girls, talking to strangers etc in a LD. Running simulations and things alike are powerful, I believe we know more than we know.
I remember reading about this in Explore The World Of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen LaBerge. You can certainly use your skills and think in new ways about things you already know and how to refine that but you can't just learn things you don't know.
Very entertaining video! My mind has been flooded with information lately and it's been impacting what I've been wanting to do with my dreams. In college, I'm taking an art history class (because it's required, but that's besides the point) and with so many paintings and artwork I've been exposed to, I've been wanting to try and use techniques found in them, even if its just imagining an outcome at the point. I often have a drawing or imagine in mind of something I want to make but the physical comparison to the mental image always fails me. If I could make a mental image of what I image exist in a dream, my hope is that I could study it and, in the morning, use my recall and write down notes with the image still fresh in my brain. While it would probably be simpler to just imagine it in waking life, my mental imagination can be quite vague and not very detailed. It'll take a lot of work but I think it may be possible. Or maybe my mind has turned to twaddle. Experimentation!
I think that's all I really have to say today so sorry for the short comment! I remember seeing a claim like this when I got into lucid dreaming initially and it's sad that this misled information is becoming a fungi online. Either way, thanks for the brainfood and the great video!
I’ve been experimenting with practicing my dribbling and shooting skills in my lucid dreams. I play basketball once a week, but I only have a lucid dream about once a week. I’m starting to see some progress that I believe is from the training in my dream. It’s quit interesting.
ONLY, you say? One lucid dream a week is amazing!
@@mikkareads yes, I've recently gotten absolutely obsessed with it, plus I am making content on it every day, so my brain has been in full lucid dream mode lately haha. I have multiple a week, but I'm only able to take advantage of it about once per week. The other times I just wake up too quick
@@dream_time Hold on, this is realnateturner right? Thought I recognized the pfp
@@SaffrinianOfficial yeah this is my new account
I haven't had a lucid dream in ages! I need to get back into dream journaling as I have gotten complacent.
I know that from a more spiritual "thought shapes reality" perspective most cultures believed if you do something enough in a dream it can be done in real life with time
I was literally just thinking over this concept yesterday, my brain has been spinning over dream stuff since I hit my second lucid dream two days ago.
This is the stuff that reminds me to stop moping around when life seems to be doing nothing and get out there and live a life worth dreaming about.
Was thinking about it recently too!
Im so happy i was right when you said no it got me scared but you went on to describe exactly what i was theorizing i was imagining say practicing woth a guitar in real life a d watching youtube vids on how to play then practicing it in licid dreams
I learned to fly in my dreams…hasn’t quite bled over into waking life but it’s only a matter of time!!
Respect bro
Glad you made a concrete distinction between new skills and practicing existing ones. Some people took the stage fright musician testimonial from the start of “Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming” and ran to the hills with it. Just don’t let LessWrong hear about not being able to just logic your way into new knowledge with nothing, they will get very angry and you won’t hear the end of it 🙃
Great points here as always. I do like to go over / rehearse things in my head, so to me, this makes a lot of sense.
Fascinating stuff. This makes sense. As a chaos mage, aka a crazy artist who ‘hacks’ my ‘computer’ to obtain certain goals, I believe that anything connecting the subconscious more easily to the conscious mind is what magic is. I sometimes have visions in my dreams or dreams that seemingly predict the future a few days or sometimes weeks before, it’s often something that happens when I draw, or make music as well. But it’s just my subconscious seeping through showing me things that deep down that part of me already knows, not truly new information, but uncovered information. Once I became consciously aware of certain patterns I noticed certain trends that I can now use in the future to make accurate guesses as to small things in my future, but it works in a seemingly completely different way for me compared to other so called ‘mages’ I’ve observed. I want to learn lucid dreaming in part to further communicate with my own subconscious, and learn, or more aptly recognize more hidden pieces among other reasons. I am at heart a storyteller, any tool in my arsenal I can learn to further either adapt or recognize my own story is certainly a tool worth learning as much as I can about. I won’t deny I have some very illogical, possibly even absurd beliefs, but Knowledge is one of my ‘gods’ and my method of prayer to that concept is learning as much as I can about the subjects I find interesting. 💚
Just being able to do rehearsal and problem solve themselves make lucid dreaming remarkable
Great topic! I’ve wondered about the limits of my intelligence during dream time and whether I might increase it during sleep and dreams or if I could perhaps have a breakthrough- Boing!!! Visually I can put together a room quite well including interesting characters and art work on the walls, even the sound of voices and music from performers say on stage.
But then suppose I hear someone speaking Spanish. I get excited and introduce myself. Suddenly a reality occurs to me as I begin speaking to this new Dreamtime friend. I can only speak Spanish as well as I ever have and my comprehension of what they are saying back to me is about the same as it ever was. I feel a great energy speaking the Spanish that I know but it has a somewhat repetitive quality to it. Drat! I should study more!
Lately my questions and goals that I want to address in dreams relate to my own feelings of what it is I really desire. Perhaps there are clues to what could help me in the waking world. Am I capable of knowing something about myself
In a dream that I am not already aware of consciously? Perhaps it’s validation I seek.
At the beginning of November, I couldn’t remember any dream, and now last night I had my first lucid dream, it was really short, I didn’t use an alarm because I was afraid it would wake my family up, it was a normal dream and I suddenly starting flying up and then I realized i was dreaming, the first thing I did was grab on to a pole but I couldn’t grab on because it was a Minecraft pillar, I looked at my hands and they where VR hands, I felt the headset on my face and then I woke up and it was 5AM, I tried re-entering the lucid dream and my plan was to take the headset off, I fell back to sleep and didn’t enter a lucid dream again
So you can't learn new skills, but you can improve skills you already have ?
Yes, this makes sense. I believe you can learn “new” thing but only if you have some pre existing info you can build from.
Just a little side story: When I didn’t know how to read a timetable for buses I imagined what would someone tell me if I asked them. I got the right answer from myself and everything made sense suddenly.
I must have had all the information scattered somewhere in my mind.
now that i am more familiar with dreams and can get lucid dreams every once in a while, I'm curious how much I can improve my visualization by trying to visualize within a dream. in my last lucid dream, I saw myself in a mirror, and what felt like imagining it, changed the reflection to another person and then pull them out of the mirror. seems like a really good path to better dream control.
That's definitely an interesting path to experiment with. It's at this point where lucid dreaming very much becomes something of a lone-journey, because your psychological "code" is going to be wired absolutely uniquely. For example, I essentially have aphantasia in waking life, but have been lucid dreaming for a lifetime, so my dream control approach will be wired around how my mind operates.
It seems to me that you've stumbled across something that works for you, so that's definitely the first clue that you should experiment with it further!
This is where you start to become a coder for your own mind, and it's time to start looking at the mechanisms in place.
I wish I could be more specific, but we're dealing with a genuine mystery and unknown here, namely the nature of self, mind etc.
Now is definitely a good time to record as many details of your personal experimentation as possible. It's likely you'll find patterns that will help you to establish what works best for you.
And thank you again for your support!
Thank you for all of your non bs lucid dreaming knowledge Daniel ❤️
If it were true, ah, all the things we could learn … It's like dreaming of places we've never visited and know little to nothing about - we'd just get a conglomeration of our best guesses.
If i already have a skill that is already present in my life can i train it and reinforce it in my LDs ?
Slightly related point, but it's funny to me that the idea you "already know everything" and just have to learn it in a dream, is similar to the Socratic/Platonic idea put forth in the Republic that all learning is simply "remembering".
To me answer is maybe yes. That what you talking about is not learning skills. It's just getting them. Of course it's impossible but that's not learning step by step like in real life.
Interesting concept to think about… you’ve made a great point about being able to learn anything would require that we already know it all, would you say that dreaming is valid practice for a skill that has an experience-based aspect to its mastery?
Another day, another British word learned. “Codswallop”?
It's a good one isn't it!
I'll now need to add that one to my British translator...
Thanks!
Thank you Lily, I really appreciate your support!
Ok so yeah we can't learn new skills and this can be a stupid question but for example, in the day I am studying a certain subject can I in the dream reapt my studying or take a pen and write down what I remember? And if it's a yes, what happen if I am with a Dream character, will my self help my self ?
alright so you're saying you can practice in lucid dreams or day dreams but you can't get the new skills . Meaning you can learn something in waking life and then do massive practice about it in dreams?
I'd just like to be able to lucid dream again. I haven't been able to for months and none of my go-to techniques are working :( Does anyone know someone who does actual coaching for a reasonable rate? I love the lucid mystic like pancakes but 200+ a session is a little pricey.
Have you tried the 19 day course here on the channel?
Nice Video. But I always assumed , that a person that talked about learning skills in lucid dreams mean training skills you already have.
Would it be possible to make a video how to get from a normal lucid dream to a logical lucid dream? This morning I had a lucid dream and during a nap I had several Lucid dreams. But I am just not fully there. In waking life I was with my parents on a observation tower. Because of my fear of height I felt a little bit unwell, but also excited and it was very great on this tower. But in a lucid dream when I am flying it just feels not so great. I have no excitement, no fear of height. I do not wake up with "Wao I was flying" like I guess I would feel if I would be able to fly in waking life. I can remember that even during the flying I was thinking "Why is this not more exiting".
Sadly not. There are a lot of videos and sites that really exaggerate this concept.
Frankly even the ability to practice skills in a lucid dream is generally exaggerated. The few studies on it are not particularly great examples of science, with a lot of holes in their methodology.
The channel will expand on logical lucid dreaming over time, so I'll definitely cover ways to help with that issue.
What you're experiencing isn't all that uncommon, and generally a good sign that you're heading on the right track but aren't quite there yet.
@@DanielLoveOrg Thanks. I am very excited about whats coming:)
Can you move mountains on your dreams you never talk abaut your dream experiences
I tend to reserve those things for tuition students, my books, and the occasional live stream. But there is a video of a dream report here: ruclips.net/video/U_wDHYU2dFQ/видео.html
Yes you can
Can You At Least Learn 1 Or 2 Skills In A Lucid Dream Not Any But Maybe 1 Or 2
No, you can get creative with ideas and work with prexisting skills, but you cannot learn something new.
Frankly even the claims of practice are greatly exaggerated.
Not to be rude or embarrass you, but this may save you some problems down the road.... you don't need to capitalise every word in a sentence.
Absurd!
Trudat
Thanks!