+IcedKappa Okay, three different friends drowned in the Reservoir, but the first room?! *_Really?!_* That room's not the threat there, that dude's his OWN threat.
We have a popular phrase in Chinese here in Hong Kong: 手残 it means that one's hands are very out of practice for playing 'complicated games', such as pressing two different buttons at once. All of my friends suffer from this syndrome, and I'm sad because there is absolutely no one who knows how to play Platformers around me and no one understands how hard Hell is when I show them. They just say that Cave Story is a 'boring' game and it's 'stupid' and 'dumb' and 'only for idiots'. I hope someone understands my struggles
I surprisingly got it on only my second run of this game. Probably because I'm very observant and remembered that interacting with things resulted in different outcomes if I waited long enough. Of course, beating Hell took such a long time.
Steven yeah, but in most games if you were to ignore him and try to leave it would say something like “you should probably go down” or “you can’t leave here yet!”. The fact that it lets you do things like that would probably lead someone to believe that something different might happen if you ignore him.
I actually didn't know the orange guy in the cemetery could be hurt that way, I always attacked him from behind, which works. Also, I NEVER KNEW BOSSES DIDN'T HURT YOU LIKE THAT!
Lol, the majority of players probably missed that simply because it's such a common trope [and because I can't remember a particular situation that would make you run into a boss].
Hey I just wanted to say that this was a really great overview. I love game design stuff, and you do a really good job at being thorough but also pleasant to listen to. Keep up the awesome work!
+snomaN Gaming Hey, small world! We've talked about your channel quite a lot off-camera (if I recall correctly we also mentioned you by name in one of our Let's Plays, but I have no idea which one). Your game design videos are fantastic! Both Joe and I enjoyed your Undertale video in particular -- it came out just as we were finishing our Let's Play of it on the channel, and it was awesome to hear your thoughts on the game. Thanks for dropping us a line!
Haha that is awesome! I'm glad you've enjoyed the series :) Absolutely man, you did a great job, I'll check out some of the lets plays! Don't be a stranger, and keep being awesome ;)
I reeeally like Cave Story, but I feel that the door with an eye at the beginning was a poor design choice. I leapt into it and died, the first time I played, which felt cheap. So what the game taught me there was that doors could be hazardous, but it was literally the only one in the whole game. It teaches the player to be wary of doors for no reason.
I think it more teaches to be aware of your surroundings. A big angry eye is probably dangerous, look before you leap, and even if it catches you, it's so easily that you'll be having a more wary eye in general when something like skulls are left on the sand
18:30 I never used the map in my first playthrough (I played the 3DS version, which requires you to use the touch screen to access the item menu, something I only found out towards the end of my run). For the dark house in Sand Zone, I just shot the walls until I found a path to the dog!
Taylor Rock I dunno, it definitely feels like an accomplishment, and you get bragging rights I dunno if I could go back and do it again though. I don't think I'm hardcore enough to pull it off twice Do it if you want to say "I fucking BEAT Cave Story"
hell was a fantastic execution challenge, I've done it a couple times (loading saves) just so I can replay that section for the quintessential cave story expierience.
Haven't finished watching the video, but the Health boost at the beginning is great design since it's just a LITTLE higher than the minimum jump height, so you learn you can jump higher by holding the button.
This was a great video, really made me realize how well designed it was. I always loved how Plantation used the title screen music, as if the game was telling you that "this is the final normal area of the game." This is further proven by when you take the shuttle up to the entrance to the final cave there is no turning back to the rest of the island, since before entering the final cave you could go back to wherever you wanted on the island, but once you enter the cave its all over. Really loved that even if it wasnt intentional.
@@aegis2552 Oh yeah, but I always viewed the Core / Waterway as a sort of "Dungeon" in the game, where it was a one time thing. the rest of the island felt more like one massive interconnected world.
Cave Story's Best Ending is often considered one of the negative aspects of the game, as it seems way too obscure, however there are clues that make it much more obvious than some would think. So here's a breakdown of a thought process, that after reviewing, is essentially an essay now so... enjoy. To begin, in the last save room before the final boss there are books that talk about both boosters and says that if nothing happens to him, he could make the better one. This tells the player that something might change if they find a way to stop his death. So if they replay it to see if they can get it, there are few times to interact with Booster, as he is only interactable in-between returning with Kazuma and Entering Sand Zone, minimizing seeing if there is something to do. Upon reaching the chasm, you see him fall, and since this is when one would receive the v0.8 and as such have Booster die, they must think of a way across. If they have the machine gun, they can just hover across, but if they don't they must find another way across, and with the experience of playing through the game, they might realize they can jump quite far, and get across the gap without help. The Tow Rope is found at the bottom of the Core room and it sparkles making it clear that it is there. Since the boss room fills with water, it is common that one will be stuck on the floor and see the sparkles, investigate, and receive it. Once the room floods, you are given a new line of dialogue that you don't remember, and it is given in a way you have not seen before, making it show that something is definitely different, and adding a character that you don't recognize. Inspecting curly allows you to take her with you, which makes it clear the story has changed for the better. In the normal ending, they quite clearly show the flooded room with curly there, meaning that taking her would change her path in the story. The waterway room follows shortly afterwards, and as one would naturally do, they go to the bed to heal and save. However, Curly stays in the bed, and since the computer is past the bed, it is likely inspected next, and it talks about the books. Upon successfully helping Curly, she talks showing that she is alive, meaning that leaving her wouldn't make much sense, as you have her O2 bubble and this is a water level, so one would naturally take her, but lose her in the waterway. Upon going back to Arthur's house, Booster appears, meaning that you can immediately tell that you have changed the course of the story, and are rewarded as such with the booster 2.0, and with such can access places they haven't before, such as where the spur is located. Upon arriving in the plantation, you see her again and she has no memories, and the Cthulhu mentions a mushroom that cures amnesia. The only mushrooms in the entire game is back in the graveyard, so one would go back there either by the teleporter or the long way around. There is an advantage to the long way, as it allows for the Little Man to be reunited with his family when you go to the Graveyeard. Upon talking the Ma Pignon, one could either immediately inspect the badge and find it's useless, or they go back all the way to find it is useless. If inspected immediately, they can quickly fight Ma Pignon and get the mushroom. If not, they will get have to go all the way back which is sure to make them mad at the little guy for being mean. Upon force feeding her, she then gives major backstory, and even your name, which is something that was never stated throughout the game, but other characters made it seem they knew you from the past, and clears up several questions. You receive the Iron Bond, which cements the best ending for you, which is clearly seen in the Last Cave, as it is harder and called hidden, meaning you have gotten onto a secret and better route, as 2 characters that were dead before are now alive. The best ending is quite clearly harder to get than one would think, but that makes sense. Some best ending however require you to utilize your knowledge to the fullest to get the best ending, be that with 100% completion or by going down a different path than normal. The reward for doing things much harder than normal? A harder last cave with an extra bonus boss, and then the Sacred Grounds. These are not expected to be gone into with little experience, you have to have played through the game entirely at least once to naturally find these, and it shows that you should have the abilities of someone who has played that much. So yes, there is a sensible path, and while I still think there is a flaw, namely with making the jump over booster and how the booster prevents the towrope from being obtained, there are breadcrumbs laid out that make it possible to naturally get the best ending through hard work.
4:23 "Trying to tank through an area is impossible" Speedrunners: So anyway we crash into misery so she can take only 1 hp then jump and spam swords as close as possible.
Something else I think cave story did really well is encouraging you to keep going in the blood stained sanctuary. On most challenges like that, it becomes extremely annoying to keep trying it over and over and you begin to feel discouraged. However, in the blood stained sanctuary, it reveals a little bit about the story every so often, giving you a reason to keep going. You WANT to keep trying it over and over, because the more you try, the more you learn, unlike in most games where you feel like you have no reason to keep going except for the sake of completion.
THAT THING IT IS PURE INSANITY You have to make it through the most difficult thing I can think of, just to fight boss, then in the statue room you could MAYBE heal by carving statues then you are sent into the most difficult battle WITHOUT a save point after you went through the definition of pain it is Pure pain as it's definition, I have every health upgrade and start it with max health and am playing on easy, never made it past Ballos but luckily Ballos is the final challenge and luckily I still have Jenka's life pot even after final cave (hidden)
@@GuerreroSebastian just use speedrun strats (for ballos). They give you good HP and aren't that hard. For example 2nd phase becomes a cakewalk that takes no HP.
I have always thought this game was a true genius masterpiece, and watching this has made me realize even more amazing things that the creator did with it. To me, the very only downside to this game is its length, and the fact that it never got a sequel/prequel. The soundtracks, the gameplay, the leveling-up weapons, and all those amazing boss fights... everything about it is so perfect. The level of amazing design and atmosphere this game has is incredible and I love every part of it. In fact... if someone knows any platformer games with similar gameplay... I'd be delighted to know.
My favorite bit of game design is how it handles weapon upgrades. Now I'm not talking about the weapon leveling, I'm talking about what happens when a weapon is replaced. The first upgrade is the machine gun. While it may be useful in the sand zone and labyrinth, it is quickly replaced by the booster. Also, you can find the more versatile bubbler which performs better as a weapon when leveled up .The next choice is the snake, which has a wall piercing ability, but replaces two of your weapons. There will come times were you will wish you still had the fireball's rolling shots, and the snake's low projectile count can be limiting. Both of these weapons end up being sidegrades to a perfectly serviceable weapon. But then there is the spur. By returning the polar star to the hermit gunsmith, your honesty is rewarded with the best weapon in the game, a true upgrade that will be very useful in the final battles. The final possible weapon upgrade is the nemesis. For this weapon, you have to give up the blade. The blade is by far, the better weapon, even ignoring the nemesis's inverted leveling ability.It's more than just upgrading your weapons, it's making a MORAL choice. King gives you the blade3 with his dying breath, and if you fully level it, you se that his spirit lives on in the blade. That's not something you should ever trade away for some shiny gun.
I agree with you on most parts but the part when you said spur is the best weapon in the game i disagree. Because blade is the best weapon in the game because you can deal most damage with it except for rocket launcher. And while fighting ballos you in second and third part of the fight you can turn aroun while sitting next to his eye so curlys nemesis will hit him and your baled will hit him because blade level 1 and 2 when shooting start a little bit behind from you. Also i am a speed runner so machine gun is better choice for me because i can skip all hard jumps and use some cool bugs.
I think the reason why the best ending has such weird reasoning is that its almost impossible to find without a guide, which means you are prepared about the game and specifically the blood stained sanctuary because that place is hell, and people just casually playing the game without a guide will suffer a lot in that area.
this is probably the best video i have seen in this channel . you should make more videos like this . Talking about a full game not just a mechanic because that just makes the video worth watching a lot more .
5:43 This is called "in medias res" in storytelling. Dropping the reader/viewer/player into the middle of a story, usually to give a more impactful and chaotic start to a story. The middle of the story is usually slower, to give time for backstory and flashbacks.
(21:07) The instant death spike is not obscured by weapon icons. Even if the player fails to notice it, the player is inclined to use the space to the right to let the small spikes fall, causing all three spikes to miss.
22:05 or perhaps there isn't a victory jingle just to amplify the drama of just how BAD things have suddenly become. (King dies, You have to kill Toroko to survive and Misery completes her objective *anyway* after Balrog attacks Jenka for the key. Then he lands on you and Misery sends to the garbage heap.)
One of the only problems with cave story is the fact that the internet spoiled the bloodstained sanctuary. It’s not meant to be gotten to immediately after beating the undead core, because you are expected to have played through the game dozens of times, mastering everything, and looking for secrets, that lead you to slowly piece together how to get to it. Which is why it has the highest difficulty spike I know of.
Another thing i noticed about balrog asking if you want to fight him is that the game makes sure that you know you're descisions matter. In most games except CaveStory that i have previousely played, yes/no questions did NOT matter, such as in pokemon when professor oak asks if you want to fill the pokedex (he forces you).
Cave Story is one of the very few games I've ever been confident in describing it as "perfection." There's no filler, very few cryptic sections, (although saving Curly IS a bit player-hostile) excellent replay value, and it always keeps the difficulty at a perfect level. Likewise, this video is about as fantastic as the game. Seriously man, well done.
Pimpeaux Cave Story is my all time favorite game (as apparent by my profile picture), but the backtracking does slow the game down and is really the only thing keeping me from calling it perfect.
actually, the "unreachable" treasure at 17:19 can be reached without trading away your polar star, if you run right at the platform and jump at the enemy that jumps up below you it makes you bounce up to the treasure at the price of losing a bit of health. it's just another little puzzle you have to do if you chose not to take the machine gun
You were talking about starting the game in a safe room so you can learn and I immediately thought about how RE2 starts you off in the middle of a zombie swarm. A minute later you're talking about that very thing.
Late, I know, but i just wanted to say that I think that it is GENIUS how the game rewards players who challenge themselves by skipping the booster etc with the secret ending.
Interesting how it manages to do so without explicitly telling you a single thing as well. Of course, without the internet I would never have known the secret ending even exists.
the arms shield at 17:22 isnt actually unreachable without the machinegun/booster. right before it there is a small ramp and one of those jumping enemies which barely appear in the level at all. Players might remember that taking damage knocks you around a bit and take the ramp and enemy as an invitation to do just that. damage boosting off the jumping jelly right as its at the apex of it's jump will get you in there relatively easily which is pretty nice. at first i thought i was breaking the progression of the game when i discovered this my first playthrough but after noticing that the only other enemy around was the cockroach it became kind of obvious.
Cave Story has some very clever designs and I really like the game, but in my opinion it's not the perfection you make it out to be. E.g. the backtracking/fetch quest in the grasslands annoys me every time and the way to unlock the real challenge (hell) is so convoluted you are unlikely to find it without a guide. Still you manage to point out some good designs in your video, I just don't agree with every single one. :)
Thanks for providing your perspective. I do think that a lot of this is subjective, as your backtracking example points out, so the stuff that I put forth might not necessarily resonate with you. And yes, I would never have found the secret final dungeon without a guide :-p A relic of the era, perhaps.
i agree with these criticisms. there's no way i would have known about the "true ending" unless i had looked on youtube (why would anyone not speak to the professor when he gives you a useful upgrade?) and i did get stuck in the grasslands for a long time because i didn't think of speaking to the crack in the wall multiple times. the points he makes about the game 'teaching you how to play' are very valid points though. i downloaded this game with no idea of what cave story is or how the game is played. i never checked any instructions, and i didn't even look at the controls. but the game slowly introduced me to the basic controls in the first cave... then i figured out to press "down" to check items, doors, etc... then the game handed me a gun which i could use to shoot things, then i noticed i could build up experience on my weapon. all games should have this intuitive level design, instead of drawn out, boring tutorials.
I think Yahtzee summarizes it best: "You have to, and stay with me on this, NOT get a JETPACK!" You have to admit, no sane player (who didn't already know about the secret ending) would try to ignore him, especially if it's a second playthrough and they already know he gives you the Booster 0.8. Minus this, though, I do think it's a pretty good game. I personally absolutely despise backtracking, but the Grasslands is so short that I don't mind so much, and, as was said, the levels are designed to give a different challenge from each direction. (No, what makes the Grasslands backtracking so bad is getting YET ANOTHER jellyfish juice for the Bubbline weapon. Which is useful if you don't have the machine gun as it pulls double duty as a wall against destroyable enemy projectiles and a rapid-fire gun.)
Hell is annoying to find yes but maybe it's for the better? On your first run through you mostly likely will pick up the machine gun and get that early game crutch. The problem is, the machine gun is the hardest polar star weapon to beat Hell with since it doesn't really have any special capabilities, it just shoots fast and it's vertical flight speed is not as useful in Hell when compared to the other weapons due to Hell's vertical based progression and tight rooms with not much room to go up. Not to mention since you've skipped out on a lot of platforming practice because of that machine gun, there's not much chance you'll be ready for Hell. So the game doesn't let you continue on the path to hell on your first run and stops you with booster. Sure they are two separate instances and you can do one without the other, but they're both things that a first time player will probably do. Now when you get the normal ending you might do research on the game and (surprise surprise) you missed a TON. See it might sound annoying to have to replay the entire game again but if you found out about the spur, whether through exploring mimiga village with the machine gun, it's flight making the entrance to the first cave much more noticeable, or through outside research, you'll probably want to keep that polar star. In keeping the polar star you'll have to learn to do without that machine gun flight. This means doing all the platforming segments that you skipped with the machine gun. If you're wondering if that's enough to separate from a previous playthrough the a good part of the Sand Zone, a good chunk of the labyrinth, the entirety of the outerwall, as well as a little bit of the egg corridor all can be skipped with the machine gun, so yeah, it's pretty different once you get past sandzone. The difficulty even keeps consistent now that you have to worry about staying on platforms as enemies assault you like before. In essence it turns what would have been a 4 hour game into an 8 hour game while still keeping the game fresh. After all when you're the only one making a game it becomes important that everything is used as efficiently as possible and so just like in Bushland it has you traverse that space in different ways to keep the game from feeling old. None of these events are really linked per-say incase someone prefers the machine gun and wants to use it in hell but the chances of encountering these certain parts of the game in one playthrough are very likely if going in blind while others are likely to be found in tandem when doing research. Or maybe the journey to Hell really is bullshit and I'm just justifying it. :P
I actually got the best ending without a guide, the only thing I knew was “there is a rope that you need to carry curly” I knew someone who was a fan of Cave Story. I loved the game so much that I was not upset when messing up the good ending several times. My final goal with this game is beating Hard Mode, I had rage quit a few years back because of how hard the Blood Stained Sanctuary was with only 3 hearts.
Obtaining the best ending can take a couple playthroughs to do it naturally but it's not as impossible as people make it out to be. Not helping booster makes sense as it is hinted towards in two areas. The same pit he is in where the prof could fix the broken teleporter if he didn't give you the remaining electronics he has on him and the book later on the balcony with the book outright telling that he wanted to continue development on the thing. Allowing him to fix the teleporter means more time and that allows him complete the booster. Otherwise, helping Curly is also quite intuitive. The only thing I had a problem with was the tow rope that only appeared after a set amount of pre-requisits whereas there is no reason why anyone couldn't pick it up otherwise. The game could have just kept going by saving curly but still denying the more difficult version of the last cave but it felt that Pixel wanted the player to miss out on that and leave Curly behind in the room with all the other broken robots... which has an impact but could have done differently. The difficulty spike in the sanctuary is also a little bit high but this is for an optional ending after a series of secrets and that's pretty cool. It appears to be designed that someone who already played the game several times figures this out and is given a new challenge. The normal ending is already satisfactory so it's not something that is forced upon the player for some form of good ending.
Thank you very much for this vid lol. I now understand why the entire game was so confusing. I never got the map until I got the Booster v2.0 and had to backtrack to the graveyard to save Curly Brace... I then coincidentally found it. Not to mention I never found the sign saying I can pass through certain blocks until after I got 3 of the dogs this way. I was really confused.
To be fair, I'm not immediately defending RE2's decision for throwing you right into the chaos, but I believe the point actually was that they expected most players would have played the first. If you notice, RE 1 doesn't do that. You actually get a few rooms to yourself to figure things out before the first zombie comes after you. However, most every resident evil after that, with a few exceptions here and there, throw you into some sort of danger sequence from the very moment the game starts. I also believe it was to tie in with the whole horror theme it wished to portray.
One thing I love about the choice to get the bad ending is that it's excellent motivation to continue on through the final stretch. You're faced with certain doom, a lot of the characters you've known have died, and you're given an active choice if you want to just up and leave. If you do leave, you feel guilty through the sheer act of your actions and their deaths being for nothing. Everything you've known so far in the game world and all you've done, left behind for the sake of your own life. It makes you want to go back and fight with determination, give meaning to the deaths of the people you met, and end the cycle of destruction. It's excellent storytelling and it's fantastic at giving you a reason to fight. You do it because you have the opportunity, and you take it, not out of force but from your own determination.
Erik Coburn's favourite game. (Part of the Thomas Brush team behind Pinstripe/Once Upon a Coma). "It was the first game I played that showed the impact a single developer can have on the industry. It showed that it doesn't take a complex story to have a long lasting impact on a player."
I would have to say if there's one criticism I'd have it's that there's some moon logic to the additional endings: I'm not sure how you're supposed to determine that _not_ helping the Professor is the right thing to do and helping him will somehow kill him, and it's quite easy to end up down there accidentally since the jump over the pit isn't the easiest thing in the world.
There's a book near the end that tells you about the professor trying to make the booster 2.0 if he had more time, you are intended to replay the game to get the good ending and that booster
@@gonzaloibarra9007 Yeah, there are plenty of clues. It's not as impossible as everyone makes it out to be. It's actually kinda easy to figure it out if you've played through it once.
@@gonzaloibarra9007 as i thought it was the first time i played through the game, it might just be a simple plot point that doesn't mean anything for the gameplay and it's just there to add onto the main story
Honestly I think the 2nd lvl is definitely the worst. While some backtracking is ok, it's a wee bit to much here. Also The flow is severely broken in the secret last level and getting there without a walk-through is almost impossible. Yet the game remains one of my favorites.
+Terker2 The secret last level is a secret for a reason. You aren't MEANT to get it the first time around. Helping Curly survive the encounter with The Core is nowhere NEAR as satisfying and important if you never witness her death. Going down to check out what happened to Professor Booster is only natural, but you're given more hints throughout the game (including the room Booster dies in itself, but I'll get back to that) that another option is available, leading up to Booster's Journal in the shack near the end of the game. When you play the game again, and when you're back in the Labyrinth B room, you have the knowledge that Booster might be able to live. That's when you see that red marking on the floor, and it hits you. There's a broken teleporter down there! Booster can escape! But... only if he doesn't die, and when Quote jumps down to see what happened to Booster, that actually causes the old guy to gain a bit of comfort, and succumb to his injuries. So, you must avoid falling down that pit, as the only way back up again is by using the prototype booster from Booster! That marking in the floor is your hint! You have to jump right over! I could go into more detail and talk about some of the later steps for the good ending, but I think this comment shows that's it's much easier and much more fair than you thought. The satisfaction that comes from figuring out the Good Ending of Cave Story on your own is FANTASTIC. It's also hard for a reason. When the first thing you read down there is a sign saying "Welcome to Hell!", what do you expect? You've been taught all the skills the game can teach, is up to YOU to master them in the ultimate challenge!
I used the machine gun to skip the booster 0.8 (it said it was a prototype my first playthrough, so I'm like, what if I skip it?) I found the house where you fix Curly on accident just because I wanted to read all the dialog. And of course, I'm like, I'm not just gonna leave her there, YOLO and grabbed her. The confusing part was finding the mushroom to regain her memory. I looked EVERYWHERE -.- And then omg his questions. I took the mushroom badge back to the doctor, and it didn't do anything. I look at the description and I'm like FU! Went back, died a few times, finally got the legit mushroom. I actually legit thought I screwed up when she gets washed away at the end of the labyrinth. Was so happy to see her alive at the plantation!
the backtracking in bushlands and sand zone are greatly remedied in the switch version, where you can carry more than one jelly jar at once, and you can stack all 5 dogs at once in sand zone.
I almost stopped playing this game and thought that this game was incomplete because of Egg Corridor. The requirements to advance and open the red barrier at the end was quite confusing for someone new to the game and had I not googled it (after taking a hiatus for a year or so), I might have never finished Cave Story and would've thought it's just another indie game.
Cave Story does have masterful game design, but there are points that it could be improved upon. One is the map system being hidden in the chest at 8:33 - that, I would argue, is not especially good placement for that, as that's the only location where you can get the Map System, which is rather important if you have trouble with exploration. I feel like the Map System should've been a necessary key item, either for you to find to progress, or given to you by an NPC; that chest could've held a heart capsule. Overall, though, I agree that Cave Story does a lot, a LOT of things really well.
No, the real fourth ending: 1.shoot the block above you when you get to sand zone to beat curly to her house 2. Take the sleeping dog into the rabid toroko boss fight 3. Give the cure-all to booster instead of curly 4. Take the teleporter out of the labarynth 5. Go through the game as usual until the plantation, go to the cell, find king and toroko, get the blade, free them 6. Finish the game by beating the blood stained sanctuary
So, started the game blind just yesterday. I fell into the village. First I've walked around, checked everything, talked to the few people, visited some houses. Saved at the very beginning because it was the first building. I've spend a few minutes finding the map, the garden with its heart container and so on. The left room with the water was actually my last room. In this room I didn't get the item under water at first - I thought, the animation should be bubbles that refill my air. Kinda looked like it and this is a known concept. After a second or so I saw my Air still depleting, then I "used" the bubbles and got the item. However, my air was not enough to get out alive. I died there. The game asked me if I'd like to try again. And you know what happened? Did I start in the same room? Did I keep any items, or upgrades? No, I've started back at the save point I've activated in the very beginning before all hat exploration. No checkpoint before a death trap in the tutorial. Of course I could have used thatsave point more often, but you don't think about this in a peaceful hub world, do you? So I've quit the game after a few minutes with the opinion that this might be one of the worst designed games I've played in some time. Watching this video right now to see if the game really sucks that hard. Hm. Does not seem to, does seem to be well made. Still, my blind and first experience shows: It's not as clever or obvious as it seems - it is one of those games that frustrate you already in the tutorial hub world. Wow.
I guess people used to newer games are used to auto saves, it also fucked me over in the first area, but i soon learned that i should save often after having to traverse to the first gun 3 times
@@gmdrandom6287 It is not about the difficulty, it is about setting death traps without saving prior forcing those players who got trolled by the trap to repeat long and slow parts of the game
To be fair, Resident Evil 2 is a much different game, I felt that the WTF ZOMBIES factor and not being able to figure it out safely added to the tension of the game.
That was Leon's first day as well. The only time I think the tank controls make sense because not being able to move because of fear would make perfect sense.
With how many times I’ve watched this video during quarantine I could easily quote this as a bedtime story to my grandchildren . Settle down now children and let grandma tell you how pixel is the grandfather of indie video games
I actualy strugled a lot with the game and found it very unclear. The main example is when you have to get Jenka's dogs. I had found all the dogs but for some reason I couldn't pick up the one in the bed in the save room. I had to look up a video to find out that you had to talk to one the baby mimigas Curly is taking care of before picking up the dog. Until then I didn't even now the baby mimigas had dialogue.
I don't agree with all of your points (mainly the difficulty, the 2nd area, and the caves) but god damn it, I can at least see where your coming from (point being well made, citing evidence, etc). Well done, subbed.
3:06 A beginner could fail to get that health container though because you have to jump at max height. On the other side you learn max jump height. 18:40 I never used the map probably because i couldn't read it or wanted to explore by myself i don't know anymore.
I feel my biggest complaint is the ballos and the blood stained sanctuary. There is no save point before a brutal final fight and boy is the blood stained sanctuary... hell
@@Chillax1984 Dude everyone can it's just time consuming and not fun. and how is an ending a reward, an ending is the end so the reward should be before or after the ending
@@Chillax1984 Yea I understand but I feel like checkpoint starvation is a cheap way of making the game difficult while reducing the experience mostly to repetition. Usually if a game wants a player to improve it will incentivize failure since that's the only way people improve. I like difficult games, and difficult games are about failing. Sure people will fail a lot in this part of the story, but it will be so heavily punished that people will not be allowed to improve as quickly as they want to. I understand the part that the punishment will bring greater relief at the end, but then why not bring back old enemies and ideas from the game so people can have a headstart in the improvement process at the least? That would be a cheaper way of getting that feeling of relief without slowing the pace of the game to a grinding halt. I'm curious for your thoughts, though.
@@Chillax1984 Yea I get you, I guess I just don't like the game as much as you. The mechanics aren't really that satisfying for me for some reason. Although I really enjoyed Pixel's other game, Kero Blaster, and all of the mechanics, even though it's quite a similar game to Cave Story. It might be because the movement is less floaty and slippery, and the weapons are less restrictive in their design.
This game was pretty good I found most of the secrets the bubbline almost all of the life capsules I got stuck at the plantation so I decided to go on normal mode instead of easy got the SPUR after I found out my mistake it was really fun also I almost left booster but I decided to rescue him.
17:16 No, you can get it if you're experienced, because you there is a critter there which will fly up, and if you are good at using enemy knockback, you'll get it
At 17:22 you showed that you are unable to reach the room with the arms barrier in it but even without the machine gun with some clever damage boosting off of a perfectly placed hopping guy right where your standing in that image you can reach it without the machine gun or boosters
2:50 "You know, it looks kind of scary, but you're pretty sure you remember how to jump." On my first play-through of Cave Story, I thought the spikes were grass, and though it was impossible to get through. The result? Taking an hour to finally get through the spikes, and then the next day trying to get back up through after I got the gun.
Running over a distinct "thing" regardless of what it looks like and taking damage should be a "hint" to avoid the "thing". I don't care if the thing looks like a marshmallow, if it hurts, you don't touch it. I'm going with idiot.
Just want to point out, you can also navigate the dog room by shooting the walls, so if you didn't get the map for some reason you're not totally lost.
at about 17:20 you say that area is out of reach, when in fact with some well timed jumps and knock back you cam get there on your first or second try any playthrough
I don't care if grasslands feel like a fetch quest. Some of the best music in the game right there (And that's saying something) Just means more time to rock out. I agree that the true ending is nearly unfindable without a guide, but it DID add a whole extra playthrough worth of replayability to the game for me.
I think my first time playing this game, what really sealed the deal with me was Egg Corridor's music, then the Bushlands/Grasslands music, and by the time you get to the Venka's dogs quest I was just in love with the OST. --Ed
And then you finally reach Hell and your speakers just start pumping out so much amazingness that you dont care that its your 27th life and you haven't even completed the second screen
when I played Cave Story I didn't notice the map and didn't pick it up. I didn't trade the polar star (I think I did it at first and didn't like the machine gun so I reloaded my save), I didn't know how much easier the platforming got! I think I knew there'd be a jet pack so I assumed the higher treasures were for when I got it. I didn't know that that dark room was so much easier with the map, that's much more reasonable. also I never bothered to get the best ending
in the dark room, if you didn't go to jenka's house for whatever reason (you didn't drop off the dogs) , and you have atleast 3 dogs on your head, you can also see your way around.
"Learn how to drown in a safe environment!"
Safe Spaces in a nutshell.
"All of this is in a threat-free environment!"
My friend drowned in the pool of water the first time he played.
+IcedKappa
Okay, three different friends drowned in the Reservoir, but the first room?! *_Really?!_*
That room's not the threat there, that dude's his OWN threat.
I did too 😅
+WizardPig BOO YOU STINK
No freakin' way. I admit I fell in and it took me a bit to get out but... wow.
We have a popular phrase in Chinese here in Hong Kong:
手残
it means that one's hands are very out of practice for playing 'complicated games', such as pressing two different buttons at once.
All of my friends suffer from this syndrome, and I'm sad because there is absolutely no one who knows how to play Platformers around me and no one understands how hard Hell is when I show them.
They just say that Cave Story is a 'boring' game and it's 'stupid' and 'dumb' and 'only for idiots'.
I hope someone understands my struggles
The only time I needed a guide was for the best ending because of how obscure the chain of events are to get that.
I surprisingly got it on only my second run of this game. Probably because I'm very observant and remembered that interacting with things resulted in different outcomes if I waited long enough.
Of course, beating Hell took such a long time.
I think the whole "ignore the dying prof Booster" was too vague to make sense. Both storywise and game-design. It doesn't seem to fit.
Steven
yeah, but in most games if you were to ignore him and try to leave it would say something like “you should probably go down” or “you can’t leave here yet!”. The fact that it lets you do things like that would probably lead someone to believe that something different might happen if you ignore him.
@@noural-shiblawi417 I can't tell if that was a joke or not so I'm afraid to correct you
@@noural-shiblawi417 Which isn't even really a fourth ending, you just get some extra dialogue
I actually didn't know the orange guy in the cemetery could be hurt that way, I always attacked him from behind, which works.
Also, I NEVER KNEW BOSSES DIDN'T HURT YOU LIKE THAT!
Lol, the majority of players probably missed that simply because it's such a common trope [and because I can't remember a particular situation that would make you run into a boss].
The orange enemy in the cemetery also doesn't deal contact damage, so when he's prepping a swing, you can just walk through him
Hey I just wanted to say that this was a really great overview. I love game design stuff, and you do a really good job at being thorough but also pleasant to listen to. Keep up the awesome work!
+snomaN Gaming Hey, small world! We've talked about your channel quite a lot off-camera (if I recall correctly we also mentioned you by name in one of our Let's Plays, but I have no idea which one). Your game design videos are fantastic! Both Joe and I enjoyed your Undertale video in particular -- it came out just as we were finishing our Let's Play of it on the channel, and it was awesome to hear your thoughts on the game. Thanks for dropping us a line!
Haha that is awesome! I'm glad you've enjoyed the series :) Absolutely man, you did a great job, I'll check out some of the lets plays! Don't be a stranger, and keep being awesome ;)
+snomaN Gaming Hey, you're pretty great at these game design analysis too!
subscribed to both of you!
so, snowmaN Gaming + Game Soup collab when?
"safe rooms are frequent" mfw booster 2.0 during last cave
what about hell
The name of that area suggest the pain i went through for the true ending
Yes, indeed
i was stuck in last cave for about four real days to get the best ending
I reeeally like Cave Story, but I feel that the door with an eye at the beginning was a poor design choice. I leapt into it and died, the first time I played, which felt cheap. So what the game taught me there was that doors could be hazardous, but it was literally the only one in the whole game. It teaches the player to be wary of doors for no reason.
if anything it was more of a troll to me.
@@platinumdelirium9826 It was pretty trollish. It feels like something that should be in a Kaizo.
Indie game devs always gotta troll a bit :)
I think it more teaches to be aware of your surroundings. A big angry eye is probably dangerous, look before you leap, and even if it catches you, it's so easily that you'll be having a more wary eye in general when something like skulls are left on the sand
18:30 I never used the map in my first playthrough (I played the 3DS version, which requires you to use the touch screen to access the item menu, something I only found out towards the end of my run). For the dark house in Sand Zone, I just shot the walls until I found a path to the dog!
No, Grasstown definitely feels like a fetch quest
Fuckin love me some Cave Story though
Taylor Rock I dunno, it definitely feels like an accomplishment, and you get bragging rights
I dunno if I could go back and do it again though. I don't think I'm hardcore enough to pull it off twice
Do it if you want to say "I fucking BEAT Cave Story"
hell was a fantastic execution challenge, I've done it a couple times (loading saves) just so I can replay that section for the quintessential cave story expierience.
hell with 3 hp traumatized me.
i did it though
I feel I failed the game when I got everything but Bubbline.
Now the real question is if I should restart for a true hundred percent or keep going.
Totally, grasstown is the first thing you try to optimize in subsequent playthroughs due to how tedious it is if you miss stuff
Haven't finished watching the video, but the Health boost at the beginning is great design since it's just a LITTLE higher than the minimum jump height, so you learn you can jump higher by holding the button.
This was a great video, really made me realize how well designed it was. I always loved how Plantation used the title screen music, as if the game was telling you that "this is the final normal area of the game." This is further proven by when you take the shuttle up to the entrance to the final cave there is no turning back to the rest of the island, since before entering the final cave you could go back to wherever you wanted on the island, but once you enter the cave its all over. Really loved that even if it wasnt intentional.
Well.... you couldn't go back to the Core room or the Waterway but yea that's pretty much what the Last Cave is.
@@aegis2552 Oh yeah, but I always viewed the Core / Waterway as a sort of "Dungeon" in the game, where it was a one time thing. the rest of the island felt more like one massive interconnected world.
Cave Story was the game that said "Platform games aren't dead!"
more than a decade ago, though...
and then there was shovel knight, and owlboy, and ori and the blind forest.
Um... Mario?
*+ZxCrono* Wait, what're those other two games about?
Medachod two? he said three games
Cave Story's Best Ending is often considered one of the negative aspects of the game, as it seems way too obscure, however there are clues that make it much more obvious than some would think. So here's a breakdown of a thought process, that after reviewing, is essentially an essay now so... enjoy.
To begin, in the last save room before the final boss there are books that talk about both boosters and says that if nothing happens to him, he could make the better one. This tells the player that something might change if they find a way to stop his death. So if they replay it to see if they can get it, there are few times to interact with Booster, as he is only interactable in-between returning with Kazuma and Entering Sand Zone, minimizing seeing if there is something to do. Upon reaching the chasm, you see him fall, and since this is when one would receive the v0.8 and as such have Booster die, they must think of a way across. If they have the machine gun, they can just hover across, but if they don't they must find another way across, and with the experience of playing through the game, they might realize they can jump quite far, and get across the gap without help.
The Tow Rope is found at the bottom of the Core room and it sparkles making it clear that it is there. Since the boss room fills with water, it is common that one will be stuck on the floor and see the sparkles, investigate, and receive it. Once the room floods, you are given a new line of dialogue that you don't remember, and it is given in a way you have not seen before, making it show that something is definitely different, and adding a character that you don't recognize. Inspecting curly allows you to take her with you, which makes it clear the story has changed for the better. In the normal ending, they quite clearly show the flooded room with curly there, meaning that taking her would change her path in the story.
The waterway room follows shortly afterwards, and as one would naturally do, they go to the bed to heal and save. However, Curly stays in the bed, and since the computer is past the bed, it is likely inspected next, and it talks about the books. Upon successfully helping Curly, she talks showing that she is alive, meaning that leaving her wouldn't make much sense, as you have her O2 bubble and this is a water level, so one would naturally take her, but lose her in the waterway.
Upon going back to Arthur's house, Booster appears, meaning that you can immediately tell that you have changed the course of the story, and are rewarded as such with the booster 2.0, and with such can access places they haven't before, such as where the spur is located.
Upon arriving in the plantation, you see her again and she has no memories, and the Cthulhu mentions a mushroom that cures amnesia. The only mushrooms in the entire game is back in the graveyard, so one would go back there either by the teleporter or the long way around. There is an advantage to the long way, as it allows for the Little Man to be reunited with his family when you go to the Graveyeard. Upon talking the Ma Pignon, one could either immediately inspect the badge and find it's useless, or they go back all the way to find it is useless. If inspected immediately, they can quickly fight Ma Pignon and get the mushroom. If not, they will get have to go all the way back which is sure to make them mad at the little guy for being mean.
Upon force feeding her, she then gives major backstory, and even your name, which is something that was never stated throughout the game, but other characters made it seem they knew you from the past, and clears up several questions. You receive the Iron Bond, which cements the best ending for you, which is clearly seen in the Last Cave, as it is harder and called hidden, meaning you have gotten onto a secret and better route, as 2 characters that were dead before are now alive.
The best ending is quite clearly harder to get than one would think, but that makes sense. Some best ending however require you to utilize your knowledge to the fullest to get the best ending, be that with 100% completion or by going down a different path than normal. The reward for doing things much harder than normal? A harder last cave with an extra bonus boss, and then the Sacred Grounds. These are not expected to be gone into with little experience, you have to have played through the game entirely at least once to naturally find these, and it shows that you should have the abilities of someone who has played that much.
So yes, there is a sensible path, and while I still think there is a flaw, namely with making the jump over booster and how the booster prevents the towrope from being obtained, there are breadcrumbs laid out that make it possible to naturally get the best ending through hard work.
4:23 "Trying to tank through an area is impossible"
Speedrunners: So anyway we crash into misery so she can take only 1 hp then jump and spam swords as close as possible.
Yep speed runs are damage boosting and just trying to do stuff with the damage boost.
4:00 "In a metroidvania title like Metroid or Castlevania" Well yeah....
Something else I think cave story did really well is encouraging you to keep going in the blood stained sanctuary. On most challenges like that, it becomes extremely annoying to keep trying it over and over and you begin to feel discouraged. However, in the blood stained sanctuary, it reveals a little bit about the story every so often, giving you a reason to keep going. You WANT to keep trying it over and over, because the more you try, the more you learn, unlike in most games where you feel like you have no reason to keep going except for the sake of completion.
I have seen so many essays on the storytelling of cave story its finally good to hear and understand why it is also a good game functionally.
6:15 "Save rooms are frequent" Until the blood stained sanctuary that is.
THAT THING IT IS PURE INSANITY
You have to make it through the most difficult thing I can think of, just to fight boss, then in the statue room you could MAYBE heal by carving statues then you are sent into the most difficult battle WITHOUT a save point after you went through the definition of pain it is Pure pain as it's definition, I have every health upgrade and start it with max health and am playing on easy, never made it past Ballos
but luckily Ballos is the final challenge and luckily I still have Jenka's life pot even after final cave (hidden)
@@sonicdml4175 I managed to complete hell in normal mode with full hp but i always die fighting against ballos
@@GuerreroSebastian just use speedrun strats (for ballos). They give you good HP and aren't that hard. For example 2nd phase becomes a cakewalk that takes no HP.
I have always thought this game was a true genius masterpiece, and watching this has made me realize even more amazing things that the creator did with it. To me, the very only downside to this game is its length, and the fact that it never got a sequel/prequel. The soundtracks, the gameplay, the leveling-up weapons, and all those amazing boss fights... everything about it is so perfect. The level of amazing design and atmosphere this game has is incredible and I love every part of it. In fact... if someone knows any platformer games with similar gameplay... I'd be delighted to know.
For the room at 17:49, the simplest way is instead to shoot randomly and watch where your shot collisions against the available path.
I didn't even get the map on my first playthrough, so that's what I had to do anyway.
Which you would already know if you somehow happened to find the easter egg in Curley's room.
I have played this game 6 times and I still love it. I like how you really bring out all of the little things in this game and show its true value.
My favorite bit of game design is how it handles weapon upgrades. Now I'm not talking about the weapon leveling, I'm talking about what happens when a weapon is replaced. The first upgrade is the machine gun. While it may be useful in the sand zone and labyrinth, it is quickly replaced by the booster. Also, you can find the more versatile bubbler which performs better as a weapon when leveled up .The next choice is the snake, which has a wall piercing ability, but replaces two of your weapons. There will come times were you will wish you still had the fireball's rolling shots, and the snake's low projectile count can be limiting. Both of these weapons end up being sidegrades to a perfectly serviceable weapon. But then there is the spur. By returning the polar star to the hermit gunsmith, your honesty is rewarded with the best weapon in the game, a true upgrade that will be very useful in the final battles. The final possible weapon upgrade is the nemesis. For this weapon, you have to give up the blade. The blade is by far, the better weapon, even ignoring the nemesis's inverted leveling ability.It's more than just upgrading your weapons, it's making a MORAL choice. King gives you the blade3 with his dying breath, and if you fully level it, you se that his spirit lives on in the blade. That's not something you should ever trade away for some shiny gun.
I agree with you on most parts but the part when you said spur is the best weapon in the game i disagree. Because blade is the best weapon in the game because you can deal most damage with it except for rocket launcher. And while fighting ballos you in second and third part of the fight you can turn aroun while sitting next to his eye so curlys nemesis will hit him and your baled will hit him because blade level 1 and 2 when shooting start a little bit behind from you.
Also i am a speed runner so machine gun is better choice for me because i can skip all hard jumps and use some cool bugs.
i used the machine gun as a jetpack instead of the booster
Bubbler isn't better than the machine gun wtf are ya talking about
@@owosinpan you hate shotguns, trick shots, area denial, and always having ammo.
I think the reason why the best ending has such weird reasoning is that its almost impossible to find without a guide, which means you are prepared about the game and specifically the blood stained sanctuary because that place is hell, and people just casually playing the game without a guide will suffer a lot in that area.
this is probably the best video i have seen in this channel . you should make more videos like this . Talking about a full game not just a mechanic because that just makes the video worth watching a lot more .
"Failing a test doesn't kill you"
*trying to do a certain hard jump in order to be able to unlock the good ending flashbacks*
5:43
This is called "in medias res" in storytelling. Dropping the reader/viewer/player into the middle of a story, usually to give a more impactful and chaotic start to a story. The middle of the story is usually slower, to give time for backstory and flashbacks.
(21:07) The instant death spike is not obscured by weapon icons. Even if the player fails to notice it, the player is inclined to use the space to the right to let the small spikes fall, causing all three spikes to miss.
I also absolutely LOVE the way how to get the Spur.
You have to go back to where you've found the Polar Star.
22:05 or perhaps there isn't a victory jingle just to amplify the drama of just how BAD things have suddenly become. (King dies, You have to kill Toroko to survive and Misery completes her objective *anyway* after Balrog attacks Jenka for the key. Then he lands on you and Misery sends to the garbage heap.)
One of the only problems with cave story is the fact that the internet spoiled the bloodstained sanctuary. It’s not meant to be gotten to immediately after beating the undead core, because you are expected to have played through the game dozens of times, mastering everything, and looking for secrets, that lead you to slowly piece together how to get to it. Which is why it has the highest difficulty spike I know of.
24:33 The labyrinth is kind of a drawn out slog to get through, but that makes sense. The labyrinth is supposed to be hard to escape, after all.
And this is why Cave Story is one of my favorite games of all time. Fantastic video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another thing i noticed about balrog asking if you want to fight him is that the game makes sure that you know you're descisions matter. In most games except CaveStory that i have previousely played, yes/no questions did NOT matter, such as in pokemon when professor oak asks if you want to fill the pokedex (he forces you).
+Ryan Nixon That's a really great point. It comes back into play when you can choose to escape off the island later too.
Cave Story is one of the very few games I've ever been confident in describing it as "perfection." There's no filler, very few cryptic sections, (although saving Curly IS a bit player-hostile) excellent replay value, and it always keeps the difficulty at a perfect level. Likewise, this video is about as fantastic as the game. Seriously man, well done.
Pimpeaux Cave Story is my all time favorite game (as apparent by my profile picture), but the backtracking does slow the game down and is really the only thing keeping me from calling it perfect.
12:17 was gold.
15:57 "The only time *she* can damage you is when *he* punches", no, that's clearly a cinnamon roll.
"That would be a sadistic, frustrating and player unfriendly choice"
Heavy Press: ._.xD
actually, the "unreachable" treasure at 17:19 can be reached without trading away your polar star, if you run right at the platform and jump at the enemy that jumps up below you it makes you bounce up to the treasure at the price of losing a bit of health. it's just another little puzzle you have to do if you chose not to take the machine gun
Rebecka Lillieström or return with the booster 2.0
You were talking about starting the game in a safe room so you can learn and I immediately thought about how RE2 starts you off in the middle of a zombie swarm. A minute later you're talking about that very thing.
Late, I know, but i just wanted to say that I think that it is GENIUS how the game rewards players who challenge themselves by skipping the booster etc with the secret ending.
Interesting how it manages to do so without explicitly telling you a single thing as well. Of course, without the internet I would never have known the secret ending even exists.
the arms shield at 17:22 isnt actually unreachable without the machinegun/booster. right before it there is a small ramp and one of those jumping enemies which barely appear in the level at all. Players might remember that taking damage knocks you around a bit and take the ramp and enemy as an invitation to do just that. damage boosting off the jumping jelly right as its at the apex of it's jump will get you in there relatively easily which is pretty nice. at first i thought i was breaking the progression of the game when i discovered this my first playthrough but after noticing that the only other enemy around was the cockroach it became kind of obvious.
Cave Story has some very clever designs and I really like the game, but in my opinion it's not the perfection you make it out to be. E.g. the backtracking/fetch quest in the grasslands annoys me every time and the way to unlock the real challenge (hell) is so convoluted you are unlikely to find it without a guide. Still you manage to point out some good designs in your video, I just don't agree with every single one. :)
Thanks for providing your perspective. I do think that a lot of this is subjective, as your backtracking example points out, so the stuff that I put forth might not necessarily resonate with you. And yes, I would never have found the secret final dungeon without a guide :-p A relic of the era, perhaps.
i agree with these criticisms. there's no way i would have known about the "true ending" unless i had looked on youtube (why would anyone not speak to the professor when he gives you a useful upgrade?) and i did get stuck in the grasslands for a long time because i didn't think of speaking to the crack in the wall multiple times.
the points he makes about the game 'teaching you how to play' are very valid points though. i downloaded this game with no idea of what cave story is or how the game is played. i never checked any instructions, and i didn't even look at the controls. but the game slowly introduced me to the basic controls in the first cave... then i figured out to press "down" to check items, doors, etc... then the game handed me a gun which i could use to shoot things, then i noticed i could build up experience on my weapon. all games should have this intuitive level design, instead of drawn out, boring tutorials.
I think Yahtzee summarizes it best: "You have to, and stay with me on this, NOT get a JETPACK!" You have to admit, no sane player (who didn't already know about the secret ending) would try to ignore him, especially if it's a second playthrough and they already know he gives you the Booster 0.8.
Minus this, though, I do think it's a pretty good game. I personally absolutely despise backtracking, but the Grasslands is so short that I don't mind so much, and, as was said, the levels are designed to give a different challenge from each direction.
(No, what makes the Grasslands backtracking so bad is getting YET ANOTHER jellyfish juice for the Bubbline weapon. Which is useful if you don't have the machine gun as it pulls double duty as a wall against destroyable enemy projectiles and a rapid-fire gun.)
Hell is annoying to find yes but maybe it's for the better? On your first run through you mostly likely will pick up the machine gun and get that early game crutch. The problem is, the machine gun is the hardest polar star weapon to beat Hell with since it doesn't really have any special capabilities, it just shoots fast and it's vertical flight speed is not as useful in Hell when compared to the other weapons due to Hell's vertical based progression and tight rooms with not much room to go up. Not to mention since you've skipped out on a lot of platforming practice because of that machine gun, there's not much chance you'll be ready for Hell. So the game doesn't let you continue on the path to hell on your first run and stops you with booster. Sure they are two separate instances and you can do one without the other, but they're both things that a first time player will probably do. Now when you get the normal ending you might do research on the game and (surprise surprise) you missed a TON. See it might sound annoying to have to replay the entire game again but if you found out about the spur, whether through exploring mimiga village with the machine gun, it's flight making the entrance to the first cave much more noticeable, or through outside research, you'll probably want to keep that polar star. In keeping the polar star you'll have to learn to do without that machine gun flight. This means doing all the platforming segments that you skipped with the machine gun. If you're wondering if that's enough to separate from a previous playthrough the a good part of the Sand Zone, a good chunk of the labyrinth, the entirety of the outerwall, as well as a little bit of the egg corridor all can be skipped with the machine gun, so yeah, it's pretty different once you get past sandzone. The difficulty even keeps consistent now that you have to worry about staying on platforms as enemies assault you like before. In essence it turns what would have been a 4 hour game into an 8 hour game while still keeping the game fresh. After all when you're the only one making a game it becomes important that everything is used as efficiently as possible and so just like in Bushland it has you traverse that space in different ways to keep the game from feeling old. None of these events are really linked per-say incase someone prefers the machine gun and wants to use it in hell but the chances of encountering these certain parts of the game in one playthrough are very likely if going in blind while others are likely to be found in tandem when doing research. Or maybe the journey to Hell really is bullshit and I'm just justifying it. :P
Many things in Chrono Trigger are almost impossible to do without a guide and it's considered the best game of all time.
I actually got the best ending without a guide, the only thing I knew was “there is a rope that you need to carry curly” I knew someone who was a fan of Cave Story. I loved the game so much that I was not upset when messing up the good ending several times. My final goal with this game is beating Hard Mode, I had rage quit a few years back because of how hard the Blood Stained Sanctuary was with only 3 hearts.
3? im pretty sure there is one HP pickup...
Obtaining the best ending can take a couple playthroughs to do it naturally but it's not as impossible as people make it out to be. Not helping booster makes sense as it is hinted towards in two areas. The same pit he is in where the prof could fix the broken teleporter if he didn't give you the remaining electronics he has on him and the book later on the balcony with the book outright telling that he wanted to continue development on the thing. Allowing him to fix the teleporter means more time and that allows him complete the booster.
Otherwise, helping Curly is also quite intuitive. The only thing I had a problem with was the tow rope that only appeared after a set amount of pre-requisits whereas there is no reason why anyone couldn't pick it up otherwise. The game could have just kept going by saving curly but still denying the more difficult version of the last cave but it felt that Pixel wanted the player to miss out on that and leave Curly behind in the room with all the other broken robots... which has an impact but could have done differently.
The difficulty spike in the sanctuary is also a little bit high but this is for an optional ending after a series of secrets and that's pretty cool. It appears to be designed that someone who already played the game several times figures this out and is given a new challenge. The normal ending is already satisfactory so it's not something that is forced upon the player for some form of good ending.
this is a great video. I enjoyed cave story so much, always wanted to replay the game. now I will do it. good ending mode.
Thank you very much for this vid lol. I now understand why the entire game was so confusing. I never got the map until I got the Booster v2.0 and had to backtrack to the graveyard to save Curly Brace... I then coincidentally found it. Not to mention I never found the sign saying I can pass through certain blocks until after I got 3 of the dogs this way. I was really confused.
To be fair, I'm not immediately defending RE2's decision for throwing you right into the chaos, but I believe the point actually was that they expected most players would have played the first. If you notice, RE 1 doesn't do that. You actually get a few rooms to yourself to figure things out before the first zombie comes after you. However, most every resident evil after that, with a few exceptions here and there, throw you into some sort of danger sequence from the very moment the game starts. I also believe it was to tie in with the whole horror theme it wished to portray.
One thing I love about the choice to get the bad ending is that it's excellent motivation to continue on through the final stretch. You're faced with certain doom, a lot of the characters you've known have died, and you're given an active choice if you want to just up and leave. If you do leave, you feel guilty through the sheer act of your actions and their deaths being for nothing. Everything you've known so far in the game world and all you've done, left behind for the sake of your own life. It makes you want to go back and fight with determination, give meaning to the deaths of the people you met, and end the cycle of destruction. It's excellent storytelling and it's fantastic at giving you a reason to fight. You do it because you have the opportunity, and you take it, not out of force but from your own determination.
Erik Coburn's favourite game. (Part of the Thomas Brush team behind Pinstripe/Once Upon a Coma).
"It was the first game I played that showed the impact a single developer can have on the industry. It showed that it doesn't take a complex story to have a long lasting impact on a player."
I would have to say if there's one criticism I'd have it's that there's some moon logic to the additional endings: I'm not sure how you're supposed to determine that _not_ helping the Professor is the right thing to do and helping him will somehow kill him, and it's quite easy to end up down there accidentally since the jump over the pit isn't the easiest thing in the world.
There's a book near the end that tells you about the professor trying to make the booster 2.0 if he had more time, you are intended to replay the game to get the good ending and that booster
@@gonzaloibarra9007
Yeah, there are plenty of clues. It's not as impossible as everyone makes it out to be. It's actually kinda easy to figure it out if you've played through it once.
@@gonzaloibarra9007 as i thought it was the first time i played through the game, it might just be a simple plot point that doesn't mean anything for the gameplay and it's just there to add onto the main story
Honestly I think the 2nd lvl is definitely the worst. While some backtracking is ok, it's a wee bit to much here.
Also The flow is severely broken in the secret last level and getting there without a walk-through is almost impossible.
Yet the game remains one of my favorites.
+Terker2
The secret last level is a secret for a reason. You aren't MEANT to get
it the first time around. Helping Curly survive the encounter with The
Core is nowhere NEAR as satisfying and important if you never witness
her death. Going down to check out what happened to Professor Booster is
only natural, but you're given more hints throughout the game
(including the room Booster dies in itself, but I'll get back to that)
that another option is available, leading up to
Booster's Journal in the shack near the end of the game.
When you play the game again, and when you're back in the Labyrinth B
room, you have the knowledge that Booster might be able to live. That's
when you see that red marking on the floor, and it hits you. There's a
broken teleporter down there! Booster can escape! But... only if he
doesn't die, and when Quote jumps down to see what happened to Booster,
that actually causes the old guy to gain a bit of comfort, and succumb
to his injuries. So, you must avoid falling down that pit, as the only
way back up again is by using the prototype booster from Booster! That
marking in the floor is your hint! You have to jump right over!
I could go into more detail and talk about some of the later steps for
the good ending, but I think this comment shows that's it's much easier
and much more fair than you thought. The satisfaction that comes from
figuring out the Good Ending of Cave Story on your own is FANTASTIC.
It's also hard for a reason. When the first thing you read down there is
a sign saying "Welcome to Hell!", what do you expect? You've been
taught all the skills the game can teach, is up to YOU to master them in
the ultimate challenge!
+ZobmieRules fucken wrecked
+Terker2 I got there without a walk-through
Taylor Foulkrod Letting the Doc "die" and the way you save Curly once you got her to the house was really not sensible if you ask me :D
I used the machine gun to skip the booster 0.8 (it said it was a prototype my first playthrough, so I'm like, what if I skip it?) I found the house where you fix Curly on accident just because I wanted to read all the dialog. And of course, I'm like, I'm not just gonna leave her there, YOLO and grabbed her. The confusing part was finding the mushroom to regain her memory. I looked EVERYWHERE -.- And then omg his questions. I took the mushroom badge back to the doctor, and it didn't do anything. I look at the description and I'm like FU! Went back, died a few times, finally got the legit mushroom. I actually legit thought I screwed up when she gets washed away at the end of the labyrinth. Was so happy to see her alive at the plantation!
You know, thanks for the idea. I am now going to set my alarm to Rive of The Valkyries
the backtracking in bushlands and sand zone are greatly remedied in the switch version, where you can carry more than one jelly jar at once, and you can stack all 5 dogs at once in sand zone.
Beautifully done video
The last ending was so hard,that it broke my will.I had to use mod to get past it,to see the ending
Brilliant analysis. Thanks. Game designers take note.
17:15
You can also damage boost to get there, which even further cements how good the level design is imo
I almost stopped playing this game and thought that this game was incomplete because of Egg Corridor. The requirements to advance and open the red barrier at the end was quite confusing for someone new to the game and had I not googled it (after taking a hiatus for a year or so), I might have never finished Cave Story and would've thought it's just another indie game.
Cave Story does have masterful game design, but there are points that it could be improved upon. One is the map system being hidden in the chest at 8:33 - that, I would argue, is not especially good placement for that, as that's the only location where you can get the Map System, which is rather important if you have trouble with exploration. I feel like the Map System should've been a necessary key item, either for you to find to progress, or given to you by an NPC; that chest could've held a heart capsule. Overall, though, I agree that Cave Story does a lot, a LOT of things really well.
And you can do a challenge where you take on the entire game without picking up any life capsule. That's right, you try to finish it with only 3 life.
This guy: is sad that you have to kill toroko
People that know about the fourth ending: allow us to introduce ourselves
The Fourth Ending is a mod, though.
No, the real fourth ending:
1.shoot the block above you when you get to sand zone to beat curly to her house
2. Take the sleeping dog into the rabid toroko boss fight
3. Give the cure-all to booster instead of curly
4. Take the teleporter out of the labarynth
5. Go through the game as usual until the plantation, go to the cell, find king and toroko, get the blade, free them
6. Finish the game by beating the blood stained sanctuary
@@RocketSlime21 Yes, that is infact the mod that I was talking about. Try doing that in a clean install of Cave Story, it's not going to work.
Oh
17:16 - The perch up there can be reached by damage boosting off of the little flying blob thingy.
I just returned with the booster 2.0 there, but I understand that you would not have it on first run through.
Cave Story is one of the greatest games of all time and the best indie game of all time. I need to buy it again on Steam. So much nostalgia.
So, started the game blind just yesterday.
I fell into the village. First I've walked around, checked everything, talked to the few people, visited some houses. Saved at the very beginning because it was the first building.
I've spend a few minutes finding the map, the garden with its heart container and so on. The left room with the water was actually my last room.
In this room I didn't get the item under water at first - I thought, the animation should be bubbles that refill my air. Kinda looked like it and this is a known concept. After a second or so I saw my Air still depleting, then I "used" the bubbles and got the item. However, my air was not enough to get out alive. I died there.
The game asked me if I'd like to try again. And you know what happened? Did I start in the same room? Did I keep any items, or upgrades? No, I've started back at the save point I've activated in the very beginning before all hat exploration. No checkpoint before a death trap in the tutorial. Of course I could have used thatsave point more often, but you don't think about this in a peaceful hub world, do you?
So I've quit the game after a few minutes with the opinion that this might be one of the worst designed games I've played in some time. Watching this video right now to see if the game really sucks that hard. Hm. Does not seem to, does seem to be well made. Still, my blind and first experience shows: It's not as clever or obvious as it seems - it is one of those games that frustrate you already in the tutorial hub world. Wow.
I guess people used to newer games are used to auto saves, it also fucked me over in the first area, but i soon learned that i should save often after having to traverse to the first gun 3 times
For me I got through the tutorial easily
@@gmdrandom6287 It is not about the difficulty, it is about setting death traps without saving prior forcing those players who got trolled by the trap to repeat long and slow parts of the game
To be fair, Resident Evil 2 is a much different game, I felt that the WTF ZOMBIES factor and not being able to figure it out safely added to the tension of the game.
That was Leon's first day as well. The only time I think the tank controls make sense because not being able to move because of fear would make perfect sense.
Great video, your explanation was on point and easy to understand. Thank you for doing what u do.
17:39 "okay, we'll throw you a bone" while the enemies are throwing bones at you
With how many times I’ve watched this video during quarantine I could easily quote this as a bedtime story to my grandchildren . Settle down now children and let grandma tell you how pixel is the grandfather of indie video games
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it that much! Hope your grandchildren enjoy hearing the tale!
It would be very cool to have an analysis on the differences between each version of the game.
2:53
anyone else immediately killed by that second spike?
"He's a toaster"
Huh, apparently Pixel himself has stated that Balrog was based off of a bar of soap.
I saw this video and I recognized everything I did playing Cave Story
I actualy strugled a lot with the game and found it very unclear. The main example is when you have to get Jenka's dogs. I had found all the dogs but for some reason I couldn't pick up the one in the bed in the save room. I had to look up a video to find out that you had to talk to one the baby mimigas Curly is taking care of before picking up the dog. Until then I didn't even now the baby mimigas had dialogue.
I don't agree with all of your points (mainly the difficulty, the 2nd area, and the caves) but god damn it, I can at least see where your coming from (point being well made, citing evidence, etc). Well done, subbed.
Such good explanation!
Excellent Analysis-Subbed.
Nice overview and review, very in-depth!
24:56
Toby Fox: Hold my quiche
Subscribed! I love these deep analysis :)
+CoLomBiaSauriO Thanks! :)
Subbed! thanks for this great videos! I am a Game Developer so...it is useful for me ^^ thanks again!
LizardKnightable ir vn
17:21 you can actually damage boost up there due to the very conveniently placed critter.
Excellent video. Lots of detail!
3:06 A beginner could fail to get that health container though because you have to jump at max height.
On the other side you learn max jump height.
18:40 I never used the map probably because i couldn't read it or wanted to explore by myself i don't know anymore.
Thanks for this video. This is a great channel also!
I feel my biggest complaint is the ballos and the blood stained sanctuary. There is no save point before a brutal final fight and boy is the blood stained sanctuary... hell
@@Chillax1984 Dude everyone can it's just time consuming and not fun. and how is an ending a reward, an ending is the end so the reward should be before or after the ending
@@Chillax1984 Yea I understand but I feel like checkpoint starvation is a cheap way of making the game difficult while reducing the experience mostly to repetition. Usually if a game wants a player to improve it will incentivize failure since that's the only way people improve.
I like difficult games, and difficult games are about failing. Sure people will fail a lot in this part of the story, but it will be so heavily punished that people will not be allowed to improve as quickly as they want to.
I understand the part that the punishment will bring greater relief at the end, but then why not bring back old enemies and ideas from the game so people can have a headstart in the improvement process at the least? That would be a cheaper way of getting that feeling of relief without slowing the pace of the game to a grinding halt. I'm curious for your thoughts, though.
@@Chillax1984 Yea I get you, I guess I just don't like the game as much as you. The mechanics aren't really that satisfying for me for some reason. Although I really enjoyed Pixel's other game, Kero Blaster, and all of the mechanics, even though it's quite a similar game to Cave Story.
It might be because the movement is less floaty and slippery, and the weapons are less restrictive in their design.
This game was pretty good I found most of the secrets the bubbline almost all of the life capsules I got stuck at the plantation so I decided to go on normal mode instead of easy got the SPUR after I found out my mistake it was really fun also I almost left booster but I decided to rescue him.
17:16 No, you can get it if you're experienced, because you there is a critter there which will fly up, and if you are good at using enemy knockback, you'll get it
At 17:22 you showed that you are unable to reach the room with the arms barrier in it but even without the machine gun with some clever damage boosting off of a perfectly placed hopping guy right where your standing in that image you can reach it without the machine gun or boosters
8:16 - Well, no, not really, there's no way you checked what's in the upper part of the map. You'll get there much later in the game.
2:50 "You know, it looks kind of scary, but you're pretty sure you remember how to jump."
On my first play-through of Cave Story, I thought the spikes were grass, and though it was impossible to get through. The result? Taking an hour to finally get through the spikes, and then the next day trying to get back up through after I got the gun.
@@Chillax1984 I've seen some really weird graphics in the past alright. I also had a low resolution computer.
Running over a distinct "thing" regardless of what it looks like and taking damage should be a "hint" to avoid the "thing". I don't care if the thing looks like a marshmallow, if it hurts, you don't touch it. I'm going with idiot.
Just want to point out, you can also navigate the dog room by shooting the walls, so if you didn't get the map for some reason you're not totally lost.
Really well made video and analysis, keep it up 😊
+Terracorrupt Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
The first time I played through Cave Story, I escaped with Kazuma and I didn't know it was a bad ending.
18:30 Uhhh, no? You can just use the Polar Star and shoot around the place, as the particles will reveal the path.
Also also, it has a kick-ass soundtrack
at about 17:20 you say that area is out of reach, when in fact with some well timed jumps and knock back you cam get there on your first or second try any playthrough
24:56
Wait till this guy plays Deltarune.
I don't care if grasslands feel like a fetch quest. Some of the best music in the game right there (And that's saying something) Just means more time to rock out. I agree that the true ending is nearly unfindable without a guide, but it DID add a whole extra playthrough worth of replayability to the game for me.
I think my first time playing this game, what really sealed the deal with me was Egg Corridor's music, then the Bushlands/Grasslands music, and by the time you get to the Venka's dogs quest I was just in love with the OST. --Ed
And then you finally reach Hell and your speakers just start pumping out so much amazingness that you dont care that its your 27th life and you haven't even completed the second screen
when I played Cave Story I didn't notice the map and didn't pick it up.
I didn't trade the polar star (I think I did it at first and didn't like the machine gun so I reloaded my save), I didn't know how much easier the platforming got! I think I knew there'd be a jet pack so I assumed the higher treasures were for when I got it.
I didn't know that that dark room was so much easier with the map, that's much more reasonable.
also I never bothered to get the best ending
Actually I wake up to though the fire and flames.
I'm a heavy sleeper, and I need to wake up
in the dark room, if you didn't go to jenka's house for whatever reason (you didn't drop off the dogs) , and you have atleast 3 dogs on your head, you can also see your way around.