Metal Roofs - 2 Ways to INSULATE UNDERNEATH!
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- sheffieldmetals.com/buildshow/
/ @themetalroofingchannel Metal Roofing Channel
In today's Video sponsored by Sheffield Metals I'll show you two ways to add insulation to your roof assembly underneath your metal roof. The first method I used on my personal BUILD with rigid foam insulation from Atlas Roofing, and the second method utilizes Hunter Panels which are factory built to include insulation & plywood decking. Watch the video for all the details plus learn how we installed metal on top from Sheffield Metals.
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Since the first video you posted concerning both your roofs, I have been waiting patiently and wanted to see them done, and by the way..... you set the standard in my book my friend! I'm a born and raised Texan who moved to Tulsa at 18....in 78'. We have a new application for your " pro style " building example as you shared here.
Thank you for raising the bar, and providing the best content ever, so others may benefit from your PRO STYLE !!!!!
KUDO'S BROTHER,
Seth
I love the details Matt put into the roofing and insulation system. Truly creative! Also, thanks for choosing Jeld Wen windows and doors!
Love both roof assemblies. But, putting a layer of zip over the insulation, but under the roof underlayment is probably a little wasteful for someone not sponsored.
maybe, I think if you could get zip quality osb without the coating, I would do that. but the other osb I see for sale is trash. So I wouldn't want that.
Matt,
You're a fine builder and I realize you only do high end work. My goodness it must cost a fortune to have you build a shed, much less a house. That said, I watch all your videos and learn so much.
I am having this very roof installed on my house this week. I had to find someone who knew what I was talking about. I am very excited to complete this project as when the roof is installed we are immediately following it with a 11.6 killowatt solar install Q Cell panels and Enphase microinverters. Batteries to follow next year.
FINALLY!!!! I have been waiting for this video for a very long time. finally i got to know how you did the layers on your roof..
Thanks for the idea! :)
Using this assembly on every house I build. Thanks Matt
Matt, addressing photovoltaics adaptability would have make too long of a video but very interesting and actual topic. Can you include it on a future episode?
This was so good I watched it twice.
Great video. Isoboard is amazing: light and easy to work with.
Nice looking roof Matt !
Perfect timing. This is what I want to do and it gives me better idea's what to do and how to do it.
It would be interesting to see how you detail the fasteners of the roof metal over the furring strips.
Me too.
That is sick having those vents in the panel basically!
Looks about time for Mrs. R to be picking curtains and furniture! And you thought your budget had already jumped out the window! Looking really good, Matt! Really liked the deep details on the metal roofing- maybe clay tile or slate will last longer, but both can be disasters under hail! FR
Deleted scene: "So that makes the final thickness of my roof four and a half feet. It's a real bomber roof. In fact it's rated to take a half stick of dynamite without penetrating into the attic."
😂
😂
@@buildshow Matt , Loving the steel roofing content. Just remember … Just because a steel roof panel is a thicker gauge of steel … does not always mean that is a superior product . Generally speaking , if a metal roof supplier is boasting that their panel product is a 26 gauge .. or a 24 gauge steel . That is all fine , but what quite a few people fail to acknowledge is that the steel tensile strength of the panel is extremely important as well . The roof steel tensile strength is the strength of the panel or hardness of the panel . If you are talking about a thicker gauge of steel , usually those thicker panels are a much lower psi tensile strength ( tensile strength in PSI ). This is due to the fact the thicker gauge steel panels need to be softer to allow the coil stock to be fed and formed by the forming machines. The softer the steel .. the lower psi tensile strength … the less resistant the panel is against storms / hail / debris . Truth be told , if you look at and study the actual physical thickness of a steel panel with a micrometer and you start comparing the differences between steel panels actual thickness of the panel on lets say a 28 gauge vs a 26 gauge .. its amazing how little of actual physical thickness differences there are between “ Gauges Of Steel “ . - Keep up the great content !
I’m a professional firefighter. We’ve seen houses with 3 or 4 roofs, and I can only imagine cutting through a roof with the layers his house has. We might need a longer bar!
Have had corrugated metal panels on my 1823 Cape for years. Lower cost than shingles, cooler in summer heat due to the 1x3 strapping that gives an air channel from soffit to ridge. Almost no one in Maine uses standing seam due to cost and high profile of fins to wind and snow. Corrugated also is much faster to install as the panels are 2-3 times wider than standing seam panels. Labor is 1/2 that of shingles.
Good video. Would like to have seen a closer look at the materials being used in building the roof layers.
using SIPS for the roof is probably a better option & might be cheaper when the labor costs are included. FWIW: I have 12" SIP panels for my roof, but the 6" SIPs would probably be about the same costs (material + labor) as using the individual Poly Iso panels. Plus SIPS can handle the overhang with out any weird bracing.
What is the R-rating of those 12 inch SIP's plus the overall rating?
@@StellarFella R-48 for 12" SIPs
Where are you located? Matt's house is in Austin, TX, and I'm wondering about the viability of SIPs in austin.
@@h57s East Coast.
Love this idea. I'm getting ready to build in Minnesota and could use this. How did you handle the detail of where the wall meets the sip? What panels did you go with?
Can you show or discuss the specific details how you did the eves and the venting of the roof under deck and the flashing? details?
Been watching a ton of your videos and love learning building science through them. I’m trying to apply the science to a campervan - how would you do it with the somewhat unique closed metal shell (that can leak) and working inwards from there. It’s a high moisture and high vibration environment, and often used in cold climates where the vapor pressure is towards the outside, but can’t because of the metal walls. Campers have a tendency to mold because of this. How would you insulate and keep moisture at bay, while being repairable if things like the seems in the metal roof leak?
I love the idea of venting above an unvented attic space. I want to do the same with my house but I am located in Charleston SC and have hurricane winds to deal with. I have a PE who will be helping me, but before I talk with them, I’m curious if any builders are doing similar set ups in high wind zones?
Matt , I just visited a home an patio show in Jax FL . Came across a NEW interesting insulation alterantive called Pur Energy insulation mats QE2 Platinum . Just wondering if you have heard of it as it was developed in Texas . This product can be laid over insulation or replaces it . Enjoy watching your channel .
Hello. Nice vid! Thanks!
So are wood furring strips always a great idea under a metal roof?
I am going to build a little cabin (no attic) in Maine using metal roofing. I wanted to do a 2' overhang to keep snow away from the sides, but I read that the uninsulated overhangs can cause ice issues. Is there a good way to insulate the metal overhang? I was thinking I could put foam insulation in between the rafter overhangs and enclose it.
That's a mind boggling roof.
Would unvented roof assembly with 3" of closed cells and 8" mineral wool and be better and less labor considering you do monopoly framing anyway?
Best part of metal roofing like that - solar panel mounts clip on without penetration. Worth it right there.
How does that work
@@hunterjackson802 The solar mounts clip on the metal ridges instead of penetrate the metal sheeting.
How would you incorporate a radiant barrier into an insulated metal roof design ??? On your house would you put the foil on top of the upper ziplock then put the diagonal frame in place with the metal roof on top ????
Matt after seeing that Hunter system, would it be possible to add polyiso to an existing metal roof and then roof over the top of that???
Should I seal the vents on my shed if I insulate and vapor barrier the ceiling inside?
Love your videos! What size of the overhang/eave would you recommend on 2000sf ranch style home with metal roof?
Thank you.
Matt recommends larger overhangs (usually 2 feet) to give more protection from rain/water "splash back" onto the lower portion of the wall, where most rot occurs.
Cool. How would this hold up in a hurricane zone?
As a software engineer I would be a bit wary of too much technology particularly in something like skylights as it's hard to say how long Marvin will support the tech/app going forward - will it still be viable in 10, 15, or 25 years...
As a human I am wary of the same thing... anticipating another human to provide what you need once you've given them your money. For all the practical/logical building science that Matt espouses he seems to also promote items that will essentially be disposable or not repairable in the future. 🤑💰💰💰💲💲💲
Historically analog technologies hold their value better than digital ones.
@@muffemod Except it’s an app and wireless so digital by definition
@@jhealy3718 What kind of app did they use before the 20th century? 😆🤣
@@muffemod The skylight operates from an app - nothing else is really relevant.
THANK YOU!!!
If you were doing ICF, and plan on having a poured/sloped concrete roof as well, is there still any advantage to going with a perfect wall/monopoly house style of roof arrangement? It seems to me like there would be benefit in keeping the blazing sun off of that thick slab up there and covering the concrete from the weather.
Im actually trying to figure out how to insulate my house from the outside so I dont destroy the walls inside. I had a weird metal roof installed on my home that has tall grooves on top - about 2 or 3 inches tall every 4 inches.I want to fill those grooves on top with rigid foam insulation cut to size. I need something to cover that, that isn't very expensive and also doesnt need to be screwed or nailed into anything since my roof is metal down below! I don't think I'm going to be able to use glue on a roof lol. How could I do this and have it be safe? If I glue the foam into place, and paint the roof with elastic roof covering paint, will that last a good long time? I live in a mobile home in FL with a really low budget. I just want the AC to rest sometimes, because its running 24/7 in 100+ degree temps.
What I'm curious is how do you edge this or Flash it for the sophets when you have that huge foam edge up top
Wood facia or concrete board is what I would do
I love metal roofs. They are so robust and so easy to patch.
And they last forever ! My older home has the original metal roof no leaks
I actually liked how the house looked even better without the overhanging
Can this be done on replacement roof on a older home?
ohhh boy, very nioce!
Do you have a video of an unvented Rockwool assembly with a metal roof?
Do you have a list of recommended roofers who can install these systems in different regions?
I wonder if it would be possible to put a Pex system into gaps between the wood and metal to capture the heat and put it into a hot water system in the house?
Just install a solar water heater?
Awesome
Matt, can you put that roof assembly on a house built in the 50s or does the wall structure need to be strong enough for the extra weight?
You need to talk to an engineer.
Fwiw: I am planning on something similar in Michigan on a mid 40's lake front cottage. I'm tearing off the saggy 2x4 roof that has some 2x6 scissors added. While I'm at it, gonna rip off the back 24' and turn the crawlspace into a 800 Sq ft basement and toss in some of those European triple glazed windows and door walls.
May even use ICF on basement walls. Depends where the budget lands, might be a partial icf for the exposed areas.
What about the noise, how sound deaden is it from the rain or air traffic?
I know you build custom homes where people are going for a look and you make an awesome house regardless! I would like to see another perfect house like your perfect wall house, but the roof is using the new white paint in the news, that reflects so much it actually it is cooling.
I love the shingle looking metal roofs that I've seen on their You tube channel. 😍
standing seam > metal shingles
@@christopher6161 just curious, what's the benefit?
@@christopher6161 that's what I meant 👍
@@koljag5 massive uplift wind rating on good standing seam vs metal shingles limited to 120mph...easier to repair and get replacement parts...easier to find installers...probably cheaper for most installs...metal shingles also use exposed fasteners, and best case they are only covering the fastener on top of the shingle below it with another shingle so very little defense against ice dams/wind-driven rain
Source: I used to shill metal shingles
@@christopher6161 perfect, thank you!
What are you thoughts on preinsultated metal roof panels? Thermally broken tongue and groove with no exposed fasteners.
I asked the same. They seem like a nice easy product to work with and you can order to size.
this will keep you warm for days or weeks when the Texas next snow storm come if it going to happen again
Is there any danger in having a long roof overhang? Wondering why it isn't common in western houses. Like 3ft+
you should do a video on metal SIPs.
Zone 6 -- cold/humid, St. Louis, Missouri. In a retrofit on a 95 year old 1X6 roof deck, could I put (say) 2" mineral wool boards on the deck, some kind of high-temp vapor-open self-stick, purlins, then the metal? Would the underlayment stick adequately to the mineral wool? Then the thought is to add (say) 4" mineral wool between the rafters -- I'd have a total of about R36, a radiant barrier, and breathability to deal with the condensing surfaces not being engineered as well as we'd like. The idea is to make the attic "usable" as a small workroom more days of the year, take some cooling load off the house, and permit vapor to escape. It might not be great but it's way better than what's there, and we need a new roof anyway.
If you have a vented roof would this still be worth it ? (ranch sytle house with ridge vent in Florida)
Stunning and impressive. Cost?
At 4:30 what type of fall protection is being used?
Hey Matt, i know Metal is all the rage, but any chance you could look at tile or slate. If you still build any. Thanks
I asked local suppliers about these hunter panels after seeing them here and they’re extremely hard to come by right now. I was told I wouldn’t be able to get anything until March if I ordered now…
Why are the wood batts installed diagonally? I am thinking of using the same detail on my house with metal roof
Getting started Building a new custom home in GA (north of Atlanta) right now. Silt fence goes up tomorrow, grading begins Tuesday. It’s a “farmhouse” style house. I really WANT a standing seam metal roof … but maaan that price tag is a hard pill to swallow. Plus the price of everything else is so much higher now… We’re gonna have metal on our porch roofs due to low pitch (2/12) but I’m still on the fence to metal the whole thing… aggghhh decisions.
Exactly the same for me. Decisions decisions
i was just thinking today "how can I get my new roof to be like Matt's?" and before I could start searching, this video came up. perfect timing.
I have a whole house fan in my 1978 home, dated, I know... but, what I would love to see done is an integrated trap style vent installed in the sidewalls of the skylight risers, (into the attic space) with the draw being from a large whole house fan out one side of the house. This way, you can take the air from all the key areas of the home, not just one single point! You could even program them, so only certain ones open, or all of them, allowing you to control how and where you want to pull the air to refresh the house.
We used to have one which we removed and couldn't afford to replace. That was fantastic in the fall in South Central Texas nights. Bring in the cool air from outside also to clear cooking odors quickly, or those rare winter days when it warms up in the high 70s and you want to air out your house.
Keep it they’re fantastic! And way cheaper to run then AC!
Stupid question: when you build in the venting directly beneath the metal roofing (with 1x4s?) Can you still walk on the roof without bending/dimpling the metal panels?
I think that's a great question.
Only if the contractor builds a road underneath the metal roof.
My uncle has his roof done that way. Once it was finished the contractor handed my uncle a map . A map to be able to walk on the roof. There is a lot of the roof he can't walk on unless he wants to damage the very expensive roof.
I have a 24 ga metal roof on diagonal 2x4 sleepers at 16" oc spacing. You can walk on it, just be careful, don't jump up and down...
8:18 it looks like the venting is between the 5/8 plywood and the insulation.
The metal panels would sit on top of the 5/8 plywood, providing support.
@@rogerflorida1498 yes, except for when you look at the diagonal during strips @8:31
How do the large lag bolts and other fasteners impact the insulation? Isn't drilling through 4 inches of insulation creating a metal hole that conducts heat and cold every time (hundreds of times) you do it. Is there any information on this?
Short answer yes, technically. but it is still significantly better than building it traditionally and you do need the strength.
That’s some point you will have to sacrifice somewhere to guarantee structural integrity.
And some small screws won’t really conduct that much energy in the end.
Commonly referred to as Thermal bridging
Stainless steel screws can make quite a difference here. Check out the graphics on this report (which is focused on attachment methods for exterior rockwool like Z channels etc.) www.rdh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/NAPHC-2014-Thermal-Bridging-Through-Exterior-Insulation.pdf
I'm interested in how a roof with this much foam between the structural members and the roof deck would handle snow loads.
All that foam wont make any difference if you have a snow load. Meaning it wont compress the foam. Those pannels are very stiff and the load your putting on it with snow is very even.
A roofer here in New Braunfels says that putting an air space under a metal roof attracts bees and wasps and makes hail dents very obvious. Have you seen this?
Hi Matt et al, On an earlier build in 2014 (ruclips.net/video/d8i-93ABo3I/видео.html) The roof from the bottom up looked like: deck, peel and stick (wip 300), poly iso, poly ise, 1X4 battens (air gap) then the metal roof. Pretty much the "perfect wall" concept. On later builds, you have moved the peel and stick to the other side of the poly iso. eg deck, 2" pi, 2" peel & stick, 1X4 battens (air gap) then the metal roof. On your own house you added a layer of zip roof sheathing between the peel and stick. What is the thinking behind moving the peel and stick to the outside of the poly iso? Do you have a different air barrier above the base deck when you move the peel and stick to above the poly iso?
On the base roof deck, Matt used 5/8" Zip sheathing (which has an integrated WRB on the surface) and taped seams, so no need for a peel & stick there. Then 4 inches of Poly Iso, followed by another layer of Zip, then the peel & stick before the battens & metal panels. His set-up adds an incredible amount of extra protection and R-value, but generally out of reach financially for most average customers.
i like the idea of LVL Ells
Matt Risinger the only man in Texas ready for the tundra xD lol
My metal roof is in need of replacing. Leaks all over. Anyone you would recommend in the Upper Peninsula?
Why do they always use polyiso on the roof, can you use eps?
By letting air flow under the metal to ridge line vents make a self cooling doesn't it when the hot air heat by roof pumps out out air and sucks in cool air from the roof bottom
Please have a link to see the details on how it is installed …
Very nice but how much is it?
Matt, what color is that on your new house?
Black
Yes.
Man, how much do the screws cost for a project like this?
@3:54 the soffit 🤣
I live where wildfires must be considered. Which method of airflow/decking would be more resistant to fire?
I'm also in a wildfire area. I would think that the Hunter panel would NOT be the way to go for that. Embers could be sucked up into that vented space which is a sandwich of Poly-Iso and CDX, both of which are flammable. The other assembly with furring strips below the metal roof could be made more fireproof by using a fireproof peel and stick barrier and a non-combustible material or coating for the furring strips I would think.
@@kenyonstewart7120 I think you need to consider a few factors here... how flammable the surfaces are as well as the ember size. Really small embers burn out very quickly - this is why vent screens with mesh size smaller than 1/8" are part of WUI requirements. So the intake/exhaust venting screens are critical. Not mentioned here is the heat resistance. Matt keeps referring to polyiso which melts at a fairly low temperature. Personally I would like to see what the assembly might look like with Rockwool for a WUI assembly.
@@stevejahr5527 agreed, I am planning on using Rockwool at least for the outer layer and a fireproof peel and stick membrane under that. Ours is a remodel, not a new build, but down to the studs. Cladding will be either metal or one of the more modern looking Hardy Commercial products.
Why PolyIso vs Rockwool?
Your homes are mind blowing and the roofing is amazing. I called a few metal roofing companies for a standing seam quote for my 1800 sq ranch with 24x24 garage. The quote came in at $90,000. We opted for a 50 year shingle roof for $10,000. Not sure how anyone can afford this type of roof. And that wasn't adding insulation either.
You could do 9 Roofs for the price of one. Lol sounds logical
It wasn't that expensive pre-pan-demic. I paid about $34K for 3200 sq ft roof (Late 2019). If your not going to stay in the home more than the lifetime of a shingle roof (about 15 years) than it does make sense. However I am planning on staying on my home, and as material & labor costs go up (as they already are), then it makes sense.
That’s really really high. Metal should not be 9x an asphalt roof price.
@@buildshow Its pretty high. My neighbor got quoted $46K for about 2200 sqft roof using r-panel back in July. Perhps prices have dipped some.
Has anyone ever used the Warm Board flooring system as an underroof mounted passive solar hot water heater?
Matt, you need to pick up some Spartan Mosquito Eradicator. They are tubes you add water to and after roughly 7 days, no mosquitoes. Two tubes take care of my 1/4 acre lot. Just hang the tubes in a bush or tree and they last a season.
With the air gap under the metal roof, could you add a fan or forced airflow of some kind? My assumption is that would greatly reduce the heat getting into the roof.
That sounds like a great idea, it wouldn't need to be a big fan either. It could be run off a small solar panel.
Maybe put a water sprinkler on the roof
Looking up at the skylights reminds me of Willy Wonka, so high up there
Need to cover that roof in solar next. And make sure you paint the conduit to match.
Solar PV are great. SkyCool panels could reduce energy consumption on cooling. How about bifacial panels on a green roof #agrovoltonics
For colder climates PV/T panels could be more useful.
What do you recommend for flat roofs? I live in WNY in a renovated 1800s farmhouse. We have a rubber roof and it’s fine… but the snow piles up and I have to put up heating cables and sometimes even push it off… I am hoping a black metal roof with help because 1. It’s lighter and 2. The black will melt the snow and 3. The heating cables will heat up more of the roof and melt the snow. But I’m worried about insulating under the metal.
We just had our metal roof replaced with a new heavy gauge standing seam roof. The new roof was installed straight to the existing decking, which is 150 year old crossmembers.
The old roof was 60+ year old metal installed over the original cedar shake shingles.
I’m now worried about insulation under the roof. Anything we can do at this point?
Please don't say the cedar shingles are still under the steel.
@@fhuber7507 sounds like shingles, old metal roof, new metal roof all on top of each other.
@@fhuber7507 we had them removed. The roofing company assured us it was fine to install the roof onto the old decking. I took some time lapse and some drone footage that I think will make for an interesting video some day when I get around to editing it all in.
@@drewdoestrucks Your roof is totally fine. I question how much building some of these “building science” folks have actually done. It seems to me they’ve done an awful lot of sciencing and not a whole lot of building.
@@hotfudgemoney yeah we will see how it does this winter. I think I will probably focus on insulating between the attic and the living space more than insulating the roof from the attic. Home construction is changing but it’s hard to find ways to adapt this new airtight tech to homes built 150 years ago. All about saving money but not sure how much energy it would actually save versus thousands in added costs.
metal roof over shingles ?
What is the purpose of the 2nd layer of Zip sheathing? It seems wasteful and unnecessary. Why not apply the underlayment directly onto the insulation and then the venting 1x4s, then the metal roof?
Now I just need to find someone in my area of GA that can do this.
Good luck finding a roofer in Ga to do anything outside of put it up as fast as humanly possible get that money and disappear. In North Ga when you say metal roof they start salivating. Most get their materials from B&M metals in murrayville. Check with them on getting a reputable installer.
You in north or south ga?
North
Serious Question: Why put all of the time, labor and materials into building the insulated roof decks shown in your video when you could have installed SIP panels on top of the rafters?
I would tend to believe that it would cost less money overall, have a higher R value, be an overall stronger roof system and it would be completed in far less construction time.
The SIPS could have been sized to include the overhangs without all of the customized materials and proper installation methods to keep the roof watertight.
There are SIPs that are manufactured with fire retardant polyurethane foam cores (on example is Eco-Panels). Yes, many jobs would still likely need to install furring strips to vent the metal roof.
Please let me know if my thoughts/calculation are mistaken as I would be open to other/better methods.
I have only used/installed metal roofs on my projects since 2009. It would almost take a miracle for me to install another fiberglass/asphalt roof.
In a dry climate sips will perform better for r value per dollar and ease of installation. In a perfect wall or REMOTE system the key is having vapor and air control layers below the insulation to control condensation or water penetration on the exterior layers or sheathing/deck. In a sip roof that layer is osb, which is moisture sensitive. You can look at the building science Corp blog on sip roof failure causes in SW Alaska you can see some negatives - though many of these could be addressed with proper venting and sips installation to prevent air leakage. In short this style of assembly will work in any climate no matter where the condensation point is by season, and is much easier to detail the air and vapor control layers and make them continuous.
Can you come to pa and help me with my metal roof?
Holy mother of heavy.
Seems like an extremely heavy roof system
Why didn't you build in solar?
“Bomber Installation” Matt’s a climber
SUMMARY This video is about metal roofs with rooftop insulation. Matt Risinger will discuss two ways to insulate under a metal roof with experts from Sheffield Metals.
The first way is to use polyiso insulation on the roof deck, followed by a layer of fake rafter tails. Then, LVLs are screwed on top of the fake rafter tails to create a space for a second layer of polyiso insulation. This way, a total of 4 inches of insulation can be achieved.
The second way is to use Hunter Panels, which are pre-made panels with a layer of insulation already bonded to them. This method allows for air ventilation between the metal roof and the insulation layer.
Here are some of the benefits of using metal roofs with rooftop insulation:
Long-term durability: Metal roofs can last for several decades without needing to be replaced.
High wind and hail resistance: Metal roofs are more resistant to wind and hail damage than other types of roofs.
Improved energy efficiency: Metal roofs with insulation can help to reduce heating and cooling costs.
Airflow benefits: Depending on the assembly method, metal roofs can allow for air ventilation which can be beneficial in both hot and cold climates.