Has Tekken 8 Become Impossible to Enjoy? Legacy Players vs. Casuals
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- In this video, I explain why Tekken 8 has become almost impossible to enjoy for non-legacy players and casuals, while legacy players continue to dominate. I break down the differences in experiences, the challenges newcomers face, and how the game has evolved to create a wider skill gap.
Whether you're a legacy player or a casual player, I want to hear from you. What has your experience with Tekken 8 been like? Let’s start a conversation about why Tekken 8 feels different and how it could be more enjoyable for everyone.
Thank you for watching!
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/ @buttonmashersyt
Contact: buttonmashers05@gmail.com
#Tekken8 #TekkenLegacyPlayers #TekkenCasuals #TekkenGameplay #FightingGames #TekkenStruggles
The video has some crazy support guys thank you so much! Sorry if my arguments on it are not that developed or clear, it was a way of getting an opinion out of my system. Love you all and thanks for the support!
TBH the reason behind most problems are in fact the CASUAL PLAYERS. From the introduction of heat to making execution easier BAMCO went all out to appease and cater the casual fan base.... Also it's not the legacy players that are lag switching, rage quitting or doing one and done.s... It's the casual players themselves. This game along with KOF has a reputation of being a hard game....and casual players obviously don't like that and I don't blame them... because to learn a match up u have to see their moves, frame data, and learn how to counter those moves. Even after that there are true 50-50s and mind games that can go either way. That's why they take the easier route, win quits rage quits, one and done or stop playing the game altogether. So yeah casual players will always find it difficult even if the game is very well balanced.
There is for sure a point to be made around casuals destroying the experience of the game for themselves, no doubt about it to be honest. It's part of the nature of the game, since it is inherently so difficult, it brings a high level of frustration with it. I do believe though that legacy players for sure also commit or execute this ridiculous behaviours online also, its probably just a 50-50 situation in terms of numbers. I just wish the game became a little better in terms of experience, since I feel like it is such a cool game. Hope that you are having a good experience with the game also, wish you the best. If you can like and subscribe to support the channel, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
You're acting a little gate keeper-ish, dude. Maybe that's why it's not fun anymore?
@@ericwhite1942 Just speaking facts bro.... Not one thing that I said was false.
@@ericwhite1942
Although it sounds like it, its not.
Atleast not to me.
I got fucked by my brother in t5 and i know what frustration is, sometimes i throw my controller or go somewhere else to cool down. This is what casuals feels.
And because this is online, the only possible thing you can do is just call it quits. Or just take the hits and die.
And casuals prefer the latter.
Special attack fucks a lot of casuals imo.
They (including me) don't know certain inputs or tactic to counter them.
So encountering a KING or Yoshi is like NO to most of them.
@@Marleigh_san Refusing to learn the game and becoming frustrated is your problem, unfortunately..
Do you understand how backwards it is, from design philosophy, to give unnatural advantages to an inexperienced player versus an experienced player ?
Not a legacy player. 400 hours in. Tekken 8 first real game in the series where I've tried to improve. So I've some opinions on what you've said.
The main thing I agree with you about is the bad community management: I think the game does a bad job of incentivising a positive mindset when playing.
T8 is an extremely stressful experience at times with the amount of knowledge checks the game has across the cast. There are also more 'swing' mechanics to deal with than ever between Heat, Rage Arts, and recoverable health. It's an absolute pressure-fest of dealing with all the possible moves, knowledge checks, counterhits, and plus frames. Then you actually start to get somewhere but then the swing mechanics of the game can result in absolute robberies. So the game itself is incredibly salt-inducing, which in turn is reflected in how toxic the community is.
Because of how Tekken works, I think that's kind of inevitable unfortunately; however, there's also the fact that is observably better for players to avoid rematching difficult opponents as rank point loss after blue becomes extremely punitive. So the game actually discourages running the set which I think is such a mistake. They need to fix that and make it actually worth a player's while to run it back. Otherwise, this will keep happening.
The rest of what you said I don't really agree with, however. Tekken has more tools and accessibility to get casuals interested than ever before. As well as things like the Replay system, the training mode with combo challenges, the new Online Practice mode, there are also numerous characters that have been streamlined and simplified for casual play. It's actually one of the major complaints from legacy players that Jin has been streamlined to the extent he has. Asuka and Victor were designed almost from the ground up for new players to be able to pick them up quickly and get results. So to suggest that the devs have done nothing to balance the game around new players is just categorically wrong. As others have commented, part of the reason T8 is controversial to oldheads is _because_ of that balancing.
Ultimately, I'm of the opinion that not every game needs to be for everyone. I want Tekken to have more new players, but equally, I kind of think those players need to come with the right mindset. This is what Tekken is. It's a uniquely challenging, compelling, punishing, _exciting_ fighting game -- there's nothing else like it. It risks losing that if it tries to cater too much to the casual experience.
I hate to say this but at a certain point it really is a case of 'git gud' or don't.
I do agree fully with the fact that some games are just not for casual players, like Tekken by definition because of its complexity. The thing is though, the devs probably are targeting a lot of design decisions and balancing changes towards casuals, which creates this loop of things to discuss. And yeah the game does not necessarily nurture a positive mindset around it. Great opinion and thanks for it, a lot of stuff to reflect on. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
Is a shame I cannot double like this comment
The less I interact with the community, the more I enjoy the game.
Why specifically do you think that happens for you? It's an interesting take. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing! Thank you for the support and have a great day!
The problem you are having is not balance. Your problem truly is you probably want to win more than you want to improve. Focus on improving and you will have fun. You will have fun NOW not in the future when you "are good". Let me tell you there is ALWAYS someone who can fuck you up no matter how good you get.
The joy of tekken is climbing the mountain, and overcoming what you couldnt before.
To be honest I didn't really express my thoughts from the need of more winning. I don't really care if I lose, I love playing FGs, I've played my whole life and I don't mind if I suck and constantly lose. I mentioned the point of balance, because to me it can ruin your experience if you feel like you mainly lose due to balance and not other factors. And also is not only winning or losing it is also how balance affects the pace of matches and how intricate they feel, etc. Should have been more clear in that point, my bad! If you enjoyed the video, please like and subscribe, wish you an amazing day!
Tekken 8 is first Tekken I’ve played since 4, I’ve put about 800hours in so far.
My biggest take away so far is that to actually enjoy the game you have to put a considerable amount of time and not just idle time grinding online, you have to learn frame data and watch the your replays. Otherwise you’ll just end up frustrated and burnt out. It’s so unlike any other game I’ve played.
It is a different experience and it needs a lot of dedication as you say to have a great experience that's for sure. Thank you for your opinion bro. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
FACTS! Tekken 8 is my first Tekken since Tekken 5. I put about 900+ hours into Tekken 8. Learning frame data, knowing when to sidestep etc etc I find the enjoyment in learning the game to the fullest I can. Tekken is a VERY VERY hard game. It can get EXTREMELY frustrating. But that’s part of the learning experience.
Balance only matters if you actually know whats going on
I dont know from which rank or on which position one could say you know what is actually going on 😂 I'm pretty sure there are people in very high ranks that do not know, they just have a very advanced flowchart for their offense.
@@ButtonMashersYTTekken is known for you being able to win with every character. People win tournaments with the worst characters. Balance is not much of a big issue in Tekken, since every character has a billion moves and access to universal defensive mechanics like sidestep, low parry, armor, etc.
At the casual level, caring about balance should be the least of their concerns. Even some legacy players shouldn't either. There's so much knowledge that most players dont even know that lowtier characters always have a chance against the more carried players are unaware of.
Maybe it's a modern gaming issue where it's all about what's good rather than what's fun.
For sure! It's the feeling of the e-sports era hahaha but I do believe even though balance is not the center of a casual, it becomes a problem when balance takes fun out of the game. And in the current state, there are a lot of characters that basically play a single player game inside of the fighting game. This is of course an exaggeration/example, but it's not easy to have "fun" against characters like Dragunov, King, Alisa, etc. But I do agree with the fact that it's super hard due to how complex the game is. There is also other reason, which is that fighting games don't have a lot to offer at the moment outside of competitiveness, and Tekken 8 even though it has a decent story mode and everything, it is not ignorant to this. Wish you a great week bro and I hope you enjoyed the video, if you can like and subscribe it would mean the world, see you!
@@ButtonMashersYT yup. The top 5 is unfun when you get to a certain point where your fun stuff stops working. That aspect i fully understand your point on the balance affecting the experience. I ammount that to the rank system funnelling most people in the orange-purple rank range, where in 7 that was a rank range where there was a clear skill range, where in 8 you can be matched with someone either significantly better or worse than you. Great vid btw, since it really is something that does need discussion. I genuinely believe t8 is a great game with a flawed matching system.
@@av34life I also believe that the ranked system has a huge impact as you say, it is in need of some rework to be honest. And thank you! I'm glad that you liked the video, I do think it needs a lot of discussion so I love some healthy conversation, specially because I also love the game, I think it's peak in a lot of aspects. Hope that the game can get into a better state. Have a nice week!
Western can have a hand holding yellow painted game, it's okay
I’ve played Tekken since 3 and it was me and my older brother just having fun. We bought every tekken and wanted to learn characters to get better. The main reason legacy players enjoy the game is because we know what to expect coming into it and the moves are still the same down to the very button. Yes we know it’s unbalanced and all the characters are good if you know how to utilize them
It is awesome that you enjoy the game with your brother. And thank you for your comment. I hope I can keep getting better at Tekken! If you enjoyed the video, consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means a lot. I wish you a great day!
I'd argue Tekken even in it's current state is typically more balanced than other fighters. Also, if you are a true casual then balance is irrelevant because casuals most likely don't know what makes a high tier character so good.
If anything the characters have been changed so much that the knowledge gap between legacy players and newcomers is less drastic than Tekken 7. This is probably the easiest it's been to pick up Tekken and I think a lot of the complaints you make sound like you expect to be able to instantly become a pro at the game without putting in any effort.
It is for sure decently balanced, just not at its best state. We can't even start comparing with old games who had the worst balance ever. And I don't want to become a pro without putting any effort hahaha that's just an interpretation of what I said, just trying to have a healthy discussion. Take care and good week.
If sidestepping was a bit stronger the overly aggressive gameplay wouldn’t be so annoying, i feel theres too much tracking
Yeah I also feel like tracking it's crazy strong, there are a lot of interactions that I feel like that sidestep should have beat it and then just get counter hit. It is a big thing for sure. Thank you for the insight. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing! Have an amazing week.
@@ButtonMashersYT i used to get mad but i remember its just a little game for fun, i laugh now at getting hit when im behind or completely on the side of my opponent, or when i step mid string and the opponent turns mid string!😂 it’s absolutely ridiculous and unintuitive but tekken combat is so impactful and satisfying so ill do my best to learn guaranteed steps/sidewalks i guess.
I mean now you can't even step Dragunov's WR2. It literally tracks to both sides so often that stepping isn't even worth it when that's the only counter play to the move.
@@SnowflakeSSQ yeah i was trying to take the game a bit serious and try n get god rank or whatever but tbh i dont care anymore, i find mk1 more fun but tekken is just satisfying to play sometimes, landing heihachi full damage combos is great but im not labbing this game. My combos n fundamentals are good enough to beat upto tekken kings so im good lol
@@SnowflakeSSQ i dont understand why they want everything to track in a 3d game
I find that balance argument kinda poor. If the game was so super unbalanced, it should bother the legacy players MUCH more than casuals.
For Casuals you got so many other issues, learning matchups, improving your fundamentals, mastering tech of your own character etc.
Most casuals also dont know about the strongest stuff in the game, so the people you go up against wont either. It really shouldnt matter much.
Now for pro's, if they see something super broken, their knowledge wont help them much, they will just have to pick that character themselves and thats no fun.
We've seen it with Release Leeroy in T7. EVERYONE was complaining and picking him in tournaments. It was a nightmare. A fckin joke.
I feel like it depends from which perspective you see it. For anyone just starting out of course balance is whatever, but for a big amount of casual players getting better and entering red or purple ranks, balance becomes an issue for sure. It's not about always winning, that's not the problem, it's about feeling that really strong characters don't let you play the game and execute a gameplay that minimizes interactions (e.g. +7 move constantly from certain character wink wink lmao). It is of course a bigger problem for pros, but it can also be rough for regular players, it's not a fully black and white situation. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
Im sure I've heard TMM say many times before that TEKKEN 8 is "very balanced" it's only certain characters like Drag, Yoshi, Alissa, Jin, Nina and Devil Jin being so hard nerfed that he really complains about
@@livingashtree1942 yeah thats what i think aswell. Im a Yoshi main, i know he's kinda busted but he's not a win for free card. And ive played him in T7 for over 1000 hours.
Every character is viable, every character can win. Hell when i played steve, almost no yoshi had a glimpse of a chance against me cuz i know the matchup in and out. Every setup, string, you name it. And that goes for my opponents as yoshi aswell. If they know the matchup, i have to adapt SO much.
I only play casually with friends
Its like playing it every day with your friends at home not taking it serious
Love some offline matches and casuals online, nothing I can say against that
For the last 2 or 3 months, I just open the game once after a major update, practice or play vs PC and then close it. Every time I remember the stress and lack of fun from online matches I can't help but feel like I should play a different game instead.
@@ryozaki96 yep! It can be rough. I hope the game gets into a better state soon. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@@ButtonMashersYT Actually, I thought you are a youtuber with thousands of subs, your videos are really good and informative. A sub and like is too little to ask! Have a great week too!
Thank you bro I'm glad that you finded the video great. There is a lot of aggressive comments when I just wanted to have some discussion hahaha but it's great to see that some people can take the chat without that much seriousness. Love you bro have a great week!
"Balanced Fighting game" is honestly a myth in fighting games….if you want the most "honest" 3D fighting game experience
go play virtua Fighter ….problem is players have already proven they dont play that game
I hope the franchise comes back, I would love to try it out!
Dude that was hell of a sentence 😂
@@ButtonMashersYT Regarding VF people will try it and then once the honeymoon phase is over they will leave…..how it always happens
also good video but feedback
1) Comparing the enjoyment level of street fighter and tekken is like comparing microwaved food vs food made in the oven
SF has ALWAYS catered more and had a casual audience as they are easier games to play on a casual level
2) Your enjoyment level of tekken is what you make it….if you are playing ranked trying to grind it out you wont enjoy the game that much…if you are listening to social media NPCs crying over paid stages and being negative…you wont enjoy the game that much.
3) Playing long sets vs players FT5, FT10s vs characters and learning the matchups with likeminded players will give you a far more rewarding experience.
tekken has never been more accessible than its ever been so the choice is yours how "good" you want to be and how you enjoy it
@@e.m.aseguin9401 what do you mean ?
To behonest i use to be a beginner at tekken and graduatly got better at the game by playing tekken tag 2 before 8 which was the most hated tekken game of all time from what hear from people who played it. I have gotten better within 9 months this year. From playing tekken from beginner to interminte tekken is not the type of game for casuals player since the combat is too in depth with characters having 100 plus more moves. And it is knowledge base due to frame data and the characters themselves. You can not enjoy the game without frame data knowledge or character knowledge. This game requires for you to learn the fundamentals as a whole. aside from that you have to spend hours and hours learning how to deal with characters that give you a hard time. And like manmainswe said, tekken is not a easy game to play its a game that requires players to climb their way up in order to have some enjoyment.
Yeah my experience has also been similar, I love the gameplay of the game and you gradually get better at it, but that is not necessarily the mindset that every new or casual player has, that's probably why they fully drop the game tho. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@@ButtonMashersYTyeah but for me who has played fighting games in the past. playing fighting games casually was never something I enjoyed doing. If I pick a fighting game that catches my attention I am hardwire to study the hell out of it in and out as much as possible. Not knowing what to do and losing because of it triggers me alot. I always had this mindset of getting good to enjoy the game due to how i grew up don't know how casuals do it tho. But anyway good vid👍
I appreciate this perspective. Super tired of the pros complaining in videos. I honestly think there is 1 MAJOR issue that plagues Tekken and a fix that will solve a ton....
It is too punishing to lose a match, especially in Blue ranks and up, hence, once someone wins, they leave in fear of you figuring them out. -500 pts for an L DOES NOT incentive rematching.
To solve, Tekken needs to reward rematching by giving something like 1.5 xp, and lower losing points to .5 on a rematch....double the reward, half the lost....it gives both sides a reason to want the rematch
The ranked system is for sure a mess lmao. Nothing I can say about that. Wish you a great day bro, if you can like and sub it means the world.
I very much agree and somewhat think like this as well. Especially the part where I could ask myself "Why go through all this, just to not learn the game, deal with the top tiers constantly, the toxicity?" And I usually come up with the answer "Well, I guess I like the foundation that Tekken is built on... but God is it 90% suffering..."
I do not believe one and Duns are bad. You have every right if you do not enjoy the mashup to leave. Love the video tho
I mean yeah, you can leave if you don't enjoy it of course but, in a game like Tekken, so hard that a lot of times feels like freaking rocket science, there should be incentives to stay and learn the MU, especially if you hate it. The other thing also is, for most one and done's, we all know most people leave because they don't want to take the risk of you knowing how to deal with the cheese the next time. I'm glad you enjoyed the video bro, if you can like and subscribe it means the world. Have an amazing day!
@@ButtonMashersYT I understand that’s the point tho you not fighting the character you fighting the player and your self . Don’t give up keep fighting trying new things !
My issue is im all about fairness. So when a guy beats me because he is just better than me, i respect that. BUT when i lose because of some spamy gimmicky sh*t, thats were i want to refund the game even after 650hours playtime
Yeah and sadly it's full of that in the game. Which I feel is something that feels even more in Tekken, for some design reasons when there is something unfair it feels a lot more impactful than in other FGs. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
I found that one of the most difficult aspects of discussing fighting games is that, depending how you play, your experience is so vastly different as to make it feel like people are talking about two (or more) completely different games.
The people grinding ranked will sound like aliens to people who just chill in quickplay or lobbies, which again will have a different viewpoint to someone who predominantly or exclusively plays with friends.
Even though I'm as casual as they come (I've played ranked up until Shinryu and only did Quickplay and matches with friends since), I feel like T8 is in a good state right now, community notwithstanding, and since it has already massively improved over its lifespan of less than a year, I'm excited to see where things go next.
It is for sure a very special thing how people can have different experiences inside fighting games due to their profile as a consumer. Makes design decisions very intricate and developers processes vastly complex. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving a like and subscribing, it means a lot! I wish you a great day.
this is the most delusional video i have seen in a while... saying legacy players are immune and they do this and that. I mean come on broski. Do you think bcs they are legacy players they dont hate one and dones ? Or they dont hate unbalanced game ... No we just play tekken its same as LoL or CS players... Show me where LoL let you learn the game. You just have to play forever and watch videos etc. Nobody is there holding your hand
I didn't say they are immune to anything, they just have more experience with both the good and bad sections of the game. Of course they get rage quitters, lag switchers, etc. I don't really understand why it is delusional to just share an opinion on the game hahaha I have of course learned from videos and stuff like anybody. The fact that you need to do that just like in CS or LoL doesn't mean it's good, it's just a common thing for competitive video games to have awful learning resources. Have a nice week bro and don't take the video too seriously, see you
@@ButtonMashersYT tbh there are resources to learn... i am not even trying to be mean but it just seems ur bitching in sake of bitching. Show me what has good learning resources. Like literally show me one thing that you start doing and you dont have to look elsewhere for help. I get the struggle ur trying to learn and its hard and this game doesnt provide long sets even in quick match its so dumb. But u know find friends that will play long sets with you. Find ppl who will teach you stuff. Like you would do if you tried to do anything else. Even if you start playing sports or try to do some jobs that need expertise ... you have to find someone who will teach you... but after all i am trying to say is make friends and find someone who will teach you. Ranked aint it an nobody should learn in ranked if they are trying to learn and ppl need to understand that. FGC is one of the communities where ppl are rly making friends... try that u will thank me
@@ButtonMashersYT I dont wanna be mean like rly, i get what you are saying but its rly delusional when u think that game can teach you everything and i have to say Tekken has quite good features to let you learn. Replay takeover, punishment practice, whole practice mode is so good now since T8. And saying ranked is toxic... always has been always will be in everything u will do, any game. Trust me it gets better in higher ranks bcs ppl like that get filtered... i rarely find pluggers at GoD rank and its almost non existant after TG thats how veterans dont go insane. But this is FGC... find friends.. play with them, improve ... then go into ranked straight to TG ranks :) u will thank me later
@@ButtonMashersYT also let me be clear... most of my friends (veteran players that taught me how to play tekken) quit tekken 8 bcs of issues ur talking about. You are literally talking about TMM. His whole career is tekken. Dont compare him to most veterans. Even if u dislike your job from time to time and it makes u lot of money. You wont just quit. Dude has 11k subscribers... would u quit ? The tekken is just hard to enjoy. I would actually agree with you if just said it in general... you dont have to include "veterans" bcs we are quiting too for same reasons
I am good example of strange Player. I am Legacy tekken Player, started to play with Tekken3 in 1998. Thru entire lineup of Playstation I was always in posession of Tekken Copy.
Of course I was in school, have years with not owning PS, have college, personal things etc. But I've played every tekken more or less.
I have time to play several hours in month, I play only rankeds. Slowly climbing up, but I don't think I will ever be GoD.
I am Bushin now.
But I still having fun playing the game despites that I am true casual cause
You are at an amazing rank bro that's a huge accomplishment, feel proud of it for sure. I haven't played Tekken in a while because of Terry on SF6 since in almost master rank with him and I want to get that accomplishment. After that I'll probably go back to Tekken to try and see which new character I can pick or if I continue playing my mains to a higher rank, the highest I got was mighty ruler. If you enjoyed the video please consider liking and subscribing since it means the world for a small channel like mine. Wish you an amazing week ahead!
i did not see the entire video yet but i think tekken is not a casual game anymore, the casual thing died between tk 5 to tk 6
Yeah there is for sure the argument that a casual player should just avoid buying a game like this and maybe only grab it on a huge discount. Thank you for the opinion. If you enjoyed the video, consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means a lot. I wish you a great day!
i kinda love tekken 8 and it is my first tekken game (i played 7 but i wouldnt say my experience with that game counts). learning a difficult game like tekken is one of my favourite things. im not going to assume most people are like me though.
Super glad that you are having a great time with the game bro, that's how it should be. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
I’m in the same boat as you bro. I’m just trying to get better at this game haha.
I'm a fighting game enjoyer. I almost play a majority fg, causally. From my experience if someone still wanna enjoy tekken or any fg in general is, never treat them as your main game. You like rpg, or reading book, travelling? Do that a lot then take a couple hour break to play tekken again.
As long as you don't plan to reeks money from it, then you don't need to be a try hard.
I also play almost all fgs bro, love them, but a lot of the time the business model of this games is for you to get you into the game as your "main game", on a service approach, I'm also seeing it from that perspective. It is for sure not a need to think about like that or try hard 24/7 of course. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
I had experience playing tekken (t5 was my worst, probably because i was casual)
I picked up t6 and starting to learn a few stuff from MM.
Started watching his guides and some gameplay,breakdown,ted talks about certain characters.
And i got a little better than i was before.
(And Its probably due to knowing that not all moves are obsolete)
Which sets my mindset to not always use high risky moves for no reason,
And learn moves that able to juggle combo your opponent.
That's a lot of experience with the franchise bro, hope that you are enjoying T8. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
99% of my ranked matches against Alisa are one and dones. But outside of that most games go the full 2-3 games
The mythical Alisa players are 😂 glad that you get a lot of full sets though. I get one and done from a lot of people not only Alisa's, Jin's, Dragunov's, King's, so sadly I haven't had the best luck. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
As long as the game is designed properly, I don’t think it will lose its fun factor. We can’t control the toxic people. We can only try to make them be better. Try to make an environment that does not let them thrive.
I don’t see anything wrong with catering to casuals. People have gotten used to the Heat system and not everything has to be a game of calculation. Some chance is fun.
I don’t like the “make every character broken” direction T8 took, but it’s a lot better than T7 mechanically and visually.
That’s just my take though.
Hi everyone! Please don't take the video too seriously, it is just a healthy discussion. Nothing I say or anybody else says is set on stone. Don't spread hate or hostility, it's just a game at the end of the day. Have a nice week!
Man Your problem is, you are listening to veterans like tmmSWE complain about detailed balance issues that affect high level players.... and your casual self thinks THATS the reason why youre struggling. Haha.
No. You need to actually take advantage of all the tools this game gives casual players to get better. Learning strings, studying frames, watching replays, movement, what you could sidestep, what you could interrupt, launch, punish etc. You cant just hop on ranked and keep playing people until you naturally get better. With a game like tekken you really have to master practice mode. Just Like real martial arts, you gotta train in the dojo... thats the beauty of this game imo. forget about balancing for now just learn man.
Oh I've done all of that bro, I just wanted to have a discussion around the state of the game. What you mention is for your the mindset you need to enjoy the game a lot and I've done it and got a lot better. Got from starter ranks all the way to mighty ruler with my characters. I still feel or think what I said though, so at least for me is not only about winning and stuff. There is more to the game than just that when it comes to balance issues at least. Now that's my personal situation, there is for sure a lot of casuals that just go ranked, get bodied, complain. Legacy players also lmao. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
Also a legacy player is simply a person who has played a previous version of the game. It has no impact on skill, only familiarity with certain mechanics.
Yeah that's true, being a legacy player is not necessarily being "skilled". If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
A lot of the points made here are not well argued for. OP Keeps switching between "him" the player and "us" the casual community, wondering if other people feel that way. I agree, I think there are other players who do feel that way, but let me give a different take on it.
When Tekken 8 came out, a lot of Legacy players didn't like the new updates to the game. Knee for a while felt that the game catered more to new players as the game rewarded "aggressive" playstyle with the new heat systems.
There are players out there who just want to play easy-to-pick-up characters like Dragunov or Reina, or Victor and they do well because each character's playstyle is formulaic.
One of the constant complaints of OP is that he wants to enjoy the game however if you listen carefully he wants to enjoy the game specifically: good player matches and "balanced" characters
Everyone will have different motivations to play the game and different motivations will lead to different expectations.
Does OP want to be a better player? He felt frustrated by the many one-and-dones players and lag (?) switchers.
But other players will go online to do cheese strats, to do one-and-dones and that's how they have fun.
MainMan is not immune to toxic players, he recently had one particularly toxic player who tried to farm him for content.
I'd argue that MainMan is a great guy because of his disposition to learning the game, of striving and constantly reflecting on his matches. He invests the time to play the game not just because it makes great content but because he really loves it and it shows in the videos that he makes.
At the second half of the video, OP said that casual players are doomed to struggle because of toxic community behavior and other poor balances. Well I don't struggle to enjoy it, I am challenged to do better, I'm not great at inputs and I currently suck at Heihachi but I find a personal joy when I land a strong combo or when I match with someone who is better or who is cheesing.
To others out there who do struggle with the game, just take it with a grain of salt, where do you want to put the desire to be "great" at?
Being great at something requires trade-offs: time, skill, and learning.
OP is great at SF6 because he's seen progress in it, so it's understandable that when OP struggles at Tekken 8, he'll relate it to how something positive. Perhaps OP is not seeing the ROI in his time spent in learning/playing/making content out of Tekken. Idk.
No hate OP, just wanted to give my own two cents too. Thanks for the thought-provoking video.
Hi and thank you for your comment. The arguments are not super developed since it is a video in which I tried to get an opinion out of my system you know, they could be for sure more developed or detailed. And I'm glad that you are having a great time with the game when taking into account all of the points I mentioned, the experience varies a lot in between people so I'm glad you are doing great with the game. I have been more focused on Terry on SF6 since I love the character and I'm a huge SNK fan. But I will come back to Tekken for sure to keep enjoying it and get better. Thanks a lot for your opinion and for being respectful. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
Balance has nothing to do with anything.
First of all, the game is pretty balanced. Sure, some characters are stronger than others, but all characters in Tekken 8 are pretty strong. And that imbalance only really shows on very high level of play.
The problem casuals have is cheese and how bloated Tekken's move set is. This creates characters with very specific counter play knowledge, that if you don't possess, you are helpless. Some characters like Nina, Reina, Victor, King etc are more guilty of this than others.
Granted, most players don't want to spend hours just to learn how to deal with a specific gimmick, only to fail in a real match anyway, because knowing how to deal with something and actually doing it in the heat if the moment is 2 very different things.
Legacy players possess that knowledge because of prior games and can focus on learning the new stuff, play the actual game and have fun with it almost immediately.
I started T7 at the end of 2019 and it took me about 6 months to get to Green ranks, about 2 years total to get Blue and get stuck there forever. At some point, all I did was to lab how to deal with cheese from other characters and how to punish stuff.
I got Tekken King just recently in T8, picking up where I left from T7. And that's with just one character. You think you can pick a second one and come even close to what you can do with your main? Well tough luck and good luck getting back to your main only to notice a clear drop in skill after putting them down for so long.
No amount of heat mechanics and casual-friendly stuff is ever going to change that fact about Tekken, unless they remove all that high-risk-high-reward cheese that is also supposed to be used by casuals to have fun beating each other up with "unfair moves"
Casual Tekken is not supposed to be ranking up to Gold ranks or playing like the pros and streamers you watch online and land TJUs and PEWGFs and half life juggles.
It's supposed to be spamming throws and snake edges and strings to beat your buddies while screaming at each other. If you ever played some of the old games as a casual, you'd know.
Yeah I've played a lot of FGs over the years and cheese could for sure be interpreted as a key reason for potential issues. Thank you for your opinion on it. If you enjoyed the video, consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means a lot. I wish you a great day!
Trust me, the legacy players also have a hard time to adapt to Tekken 8. I have a friend who's a top players since Tekken 6 and he also struggles in Tekken 8.
Yeah I've seen a lot of comments from legacy players like this, it's super interesting! If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
WARNING SUPER LONG COMMENT INCOMING
Firstly, props for getting your thoughts out there, its always good to have people creating spaces for discourse to take place ^^
I started with tekken 6 as my first game and have played every game released since, I started getting into ranked with T7. Idk if i would say I am a legacy player per se but I am definitely fairly familiar with the series and hover around the average level of proficiency for someone taking the game seriously (Flame ruler - Fujin).
Seeing as you presented the argumentation from a more casual POV, allow me in turn to articulate why as a series veteran I find it uncompelling (while still understanding why you feel this way)
Starting with balance, a few other people have already stated this but tekken 8 has a solid claim to being the most balanced of the big 3 on the whole. Ill adress the elephants in the room. Dragunov is a problem, Jin is a problem and its bad on Namco for not having fixed them. On the other hand, the well between Dragunov who is top 1 or 2 and someone like Lars who is arguably bottom 5 isnt the chasm you kind of make it out to be.
Without going off too far into discussing each characters strengths and weaknesses, Dragunov doesn't have anything truly absurd. 5-10 more damage here, 2 to 3 too many frames there, a smidge too much tracking on certain moves and some good counter hits. This of course does add up to character who is clearly a cut above the rest, but its not as though Drag will ToD you off a jab and Lars is minus on everything. At higher level of play, drag is an issue, but lets just be clear about this, tiers don't exist until you reach around Tekken God rank.
Im not proficient enough with SF6 to really make a call on how it compares, but given how ubiquitous Ken and Akuma seem to be, I would hazard a guess its balancing seems pretty close to T8. A roster of relatively balanced characters, with 1 or 2 top tier outliers. But that's just it. I am not proficient enough to make that call. See the issue with a casual players perspective is they don't really have a great insight into what is and isn't balanced. Ask a handful of casual green ranks what they think about Lars and they will probably tell you he is OP, in reality he is bottom 5.
Callously put, what casual players think about game balance is not really useful information for directing the games balance, since they don't really understand what makes something unbalance beyond an intuitive feeling of unfairness when facing it. Their conclusions can be correct but this is largely incidental. Meaning no offence, a casual players perspective on an issue as complex as game balance and core design just isn't and shouldn't really be worth much.
This brings us to the second point, learning the game and online etiquette. Tekken is a game of knowledge checks. The expectation of a tekken player who seeks to attain any degree of success is that they will study frame data, strings and how to counter them and lab. Tekken more so than most fighting games is a game about punishment and responding to offence. Tekken 8 may be the most agressive of the games and the offence can seem, at times, overwhelming but it is still a punish oriented game at its core. Characters will throw out gimicky moves and strings that you are not used to and you will lose a lot when you begin.
Conversely, tekken gives you a lot of tools to learn. Lets talk about your one and done plight. Setting aside the fact that I find it suspect that one and dones do not happen in SF, lets say you do get cheesed by a Kuma or a King even. After the match, you can save the replay or now hop right into live review and pause/play out the situations that the King put you in and try and find gaps in his offence, tekken will even tell you about the most obvious universal punish options. Tekken gives you a ton of tools to learn it, but yes, if you do not take the time to apply yourself you will suffer online a lot, and quitters and lag switchers will be a pain.
I again feel its not really true that they do not exist in other games and would say if youve not had any in SF6, I would count you very lucky and more than likely an anomaly. I personally had plenty such instances when i played SF6 but then such is the nature of anecdotes. They arent really useful in argumentation. What is demonstrable is tekken gives you what could possibly be described as an exhaustive list of tools to practice and learn. Your complaint is akin to saying that its impossible to get good at basketball because you dont have enough time to practice dribbling and free throws in a real match. Well then I suppose, you will just have to take the time out to practice dribbling and free throws every now and then, if being able to win at basketball is your aim.
Again being blunt, why should casual players get to win if they are unwilling to practice?
This moves us to the final argument put forth, if the former two complaints are not rectified, casual players will find other games to play. Sure, I suppose they will, but to present the perspective of myself and some other fans who have been with the series a while, why should we care? The things that are the subject of complaint again setting aside balance concerns which are ubiquitous to all games, are things which help define tekkens identity as a game about matchup knowledge and punishment as well as extensive practice and labbing. Tekken is a hard game, that is part of the appeal.
Seeing as Namco has already pushed so many knobs and levers to make the game more paletable to casual audiences, characters with heavily streamlined offence like Alisa and Lars, punishment trainings, live review replays, incredibly complete training modes with all the info you could need. Namco cant really control the rate of one and dones and has now introduced the ability to call the match a no contest if heavy lag occurs. So this leaves us with what the problem seems to really be, tekken asks you to spend time to become good at it. Casual players are unwilling to spend this time, this is why they are casual players.
So they move on once they have had their fun with the game and the prospect of committing the time necessary to become good at it does not appeal. This is completely fine and may they go with God, but I fail to see why the ownness should be on tekken to make itself more welcoming to players who are unwilling to do what the game is asking of them. This is to say practice and study.
Summary: The initial thesis statement of your video was 'how come TMM can enjoy tekken at its fullest and casual players cannot'. The answer is plain to see, TMM has committed time and effort to a game that demands of its player base a commitment of time and effort, more than most. Tekken is a hard game in what is already a hard genre. What I would ask you in turn is, why should casual players be entitled to enjoying tekken as much as someone who has put in the work the game asks of you? Not everyone should be able to enjoy any game if games are to be able to provide any sort of unique experience, and tekken provides a complex knowledge based take on the basic fighting game framework. It dials up the degrees to which a player is expected to learn and study. If this is not to a casual players taste, then in the nicest sense, good riddance to them. I am sure there are other games out there such as MK1, SF 6 or even Granblue Fantasy VS if they are willing to go further afield that provide both a stylish and easy to pick up experience they are looking for. Tekken just isn't that game, and if it is to retain its identity, perhaps that's the way it should be
For sure it is a big argument that someone who learns and plays more should enjoy more, I think with all FGs it should be like that. I will for sure go back to Tekken after I get master with Terry on SF6. Just want it to put the thoughts out there since I have been loving the game but this is my first Tekken. Love you and thank you for the articulated and respectful opinion. If you enjoyed the video, consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means a lot. I wish you a great day!
we are better at spotting imbalance's and some character's have been blatantly overtuned in this game
Drag, Yoshi, Jin etc.
Heat-engager's are not fun and they are placed on already good moves making them so repetitive.
Yeah some characters feel too strong for sure. I do thing they are very cool though and I wouldn't like them being nerfed to the ground, I just feel like they need a little balancing and that's it. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
ranked is completely borked for the average casual. prowess and the rank png system working against each other, no infinite rematch except in lobbies, one and doners, cheaters, and pluggers oh my.
It's too crazy for sure 😂 I would LOVE to have infinite rematch on ranked it would be incredible! If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing week!
they literally offer you to see replay of the match and offer you tips to beat certain strings… Tekken 8 has the best new player experience… ALSO 8:14 ??? is this the mindset you have when playing a fighting game ???
I think saying that it has the best new player experience is something open to discussion hahaha but the replay feature is for sure goated, I've learned a LOT using it, but even though it is there not everybody is using it (which is a mistake of course). If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
Balance issues usually are irrelevant to casual players, especially at low ranks. Even the players that play the broken characters at low ranks don't utilize the broken things well. I have a harder time playing against Panda, which is considered low tier, compared to a Dragunov, who is considered broken.
I don't believe balances issues are fully irrelevant to casual players, since they give in some way form to the game experience even if you don't know what's going on. People can "feel" balance issues, even if they don't understand why. This of course means that no casual player should you know go ahead and balance the game based on their "feelings" of the balance state, but they still experience it and part of that as a consumer. But I do understand the view that at the end of the day balance is more relevant for high level players. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing, means the world to me. Have a great day!
Hi, i am Tekken Emperor in Tekken 8 and my first tekken was Tekken 2 :). My opinion of Tekken 8 that is a very good fighting game. I think this is the best Tekken so far. However I agree balance is not good, but not the worst. I know, to be quite good in this game you should go deeply to the Practice mode and learn frame data, proper punishes and whiff punishes, how to move etc. You need to spend a lot of hours to achieve better rank. Good luck :) !
@@przemysawmaecki9958 for sure, there is need for a lot of training and development! Thank you for your opinion, especially since you are a long time Tekken player, I appreciate it a lot. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, would mean a lot. Wish you a great day.
Same here, legacy player with a family. Get very few hrs of gameplay a week or even a month. Managed to get my OG raven to Tekken king. I still need to learn a lot. One thing I also believe legacy players are more familiar with the character roster than someone that’s a casual, that’s from yrs of playing these same characters.
What rank are you and who do you main?
I play different characters I like the variety, I haven't really focused only on 1 to fully ranked and stuff. I play Kazuya and Viktor mainly, got to mighty ruler with both then started playing other games and characters in Tekken also! I just love the roster lol. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
Saying TMM is not toxic is a wild take
Really you think so? I find him pretty funny and super chill. He is really sarcastic tho so I could see how that can be interpreted as toxic sometimes. Interesting to be honest. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing! Thank you for the support and have a great day!
If you a Yoshi, Xiaoyu, Nina or Jin main then yeah his humor might be a hit or miss depending on you lol
I am a legacy player playing the game for 10 years and I still love the game. The players are just crying right now because of tier S but nerf them everyone is happy again,.
😂 we are crying for some nerfs bro. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
Just feels like the game change every voice matters to a point but when
It’s not mindful it should be ignored.
I won't buy T8 because it's full of in app purchases 👍
A huge problem also that I don't even talk about in the video. The monetization is for sure whack. And personally I don't believe it will get any better. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
And TEKKEN is not for casuals but for the dedicated..because it's extremely difficult with alot of details to it....it favours legacy...players...that's a fact of life ...balance is boring... That's what I learnt after getting back to it after 14 years of not playing it.
I've seen mixed comments on it, some say legacy makes a huge difference, others say legacy players are leaving because legacy skill is irrelevant. It's pretty interesting! If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
@@ButtonMashersYT The legacy guys loosing because they have to relearn some things is part of the reason ...and T*8 is made for mushing and offence ...
"Tekken has always been a very unbalanced game" Source ?
From what? HAHAHHA I've just hear it from multiple legacy players and content creators, I don't have scientific paper to show bro 😂
@@ButtonMashersYT Who said it ? When ?
You can also look at the character variety in tournaments for both T7 and T8 and see that most of the cast sees play.
You're the one that wanted to make a video.
You're making statements out fo your ass, back them up.
Bro.
I don't understand the aggressiveness, it is just a discussion about the game, nothing I say or anybody else says is just automatically true. Have a nice day bro and don't get so mad about it, is just a chat.
I got to Tekken King with Lee and I uninstalled the game because of how much of a complete mess the rank system is. I don't even feel like I even deserve Tekken King rank despite my joy when I got it. Nothing ever seems fair and sometimes I feel like my skills that I worked so hard for do not get rewarded. What's the point of improving of it's not reflected upon your rank? You can't tell how much progress you are making with your improvement which makes it less motivating to improve. of course rank is not everything and doesn't fully determine your skill as a player but this is just a complete disaster. I won't go back to the game unless a guest character or a cool DLC character that I like comes back.
Yeah it's pretty hard to really understand why you are ranking up or winning in this game. You don't know if you are learning or if you are cheesing everyone 😂 there is a lot of stuff I like about the game, but yeah I also got to a rank I wanted which was mighty ruler and stopped playing. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
I'm enjoying it so far even though none of my main 3 characters(Miguel, Lei and Bob) didn't make the final roster or the DLC. I'm essentially learning how to play a new character as I'm going through ranked but I do see alot of one and done players and they're a fucking blight, they should cut the rank points by half for the first match won and only get the full amount of points after the final match of the set. Let's say you win the first match, you get 50 points. But you lose the 2nd, you lose 40 and the other guy gets back his 40 plus 10 more. On the final match the winner gets 100 points and the loser loses 50. You don't lose or gain anything if you lose the set but you gain 60 if you win it. It'll give players incentive to finish the sets and the one and done losers will forever be stuck grinding away barely earning anything if they wanna advance.
Edit; the ones that are really toxic are the players in normal queue, you encounter alot of ki chargers, cheesy players and lag switchers there.
The ki chargers bro those are the DEMONS hahaha but yeah the ranked system is also a huge part of the problem. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@@ButtonMashersYT I got you.
Dunno what is the fuss bout the game is kinda neat all things considered. I dont like the way they do monetization tho
@@luloski2741 oh yeah it's super fun but it just could be on a better state. And yeah monetization is awful XD nothing to discuss about that. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
Tekken 8 reminds me soulcalibur 6 in a way. A game that tries too hard to appeal to the casual audience that it's turning players off.
I never played SC6 but a friend of mine did and had a similar opinion. It's really interesting. If you enjoyed the video consider subscribing and giving it a like, it means the world! Have a nice day!
I feel like Tekken like any other game has these specific niches that the legacy players are used to, the learning curve and time to get used to it just differs. This is specially visible in Tekken because its mechanics/gameplay/style is "harder" or different from most fighting games.
I was addicted to this game until Tekken 6 and even when i wasnt playing Tekken 7 as much, Iv been following the game and lore and watch matches online. Im trying to get back into the franchise in Tekken 8 and i play with my casual ofcmate. I can confidently beat him 9/10 using random characters and only relying on fundamentals, i dont wanna even fight him using my main anymore because i feel like im cheating and i can tell he's not enjoying getting beat up over and over. However, dispite this im hesitant to call myself a legacy player because i feel that im no longer as good as i used to and a decade of inactivity has taken its toll. Tl: dr, the skill and enjoyment level from a casual to a legacy is so huge.
You can be a legacy player even if you don't feel you are "not that good" bro, you are still part of the franchise's development and that's key for the game as a product. Do not undervalue that. Wish you an amazing day and if you can, please like and subscribe!
Legacy player here.
It's pretty interesting to me that you came to this conclusion, from a newer player perspective.
I gotta tell you, there is a GIANT contingent of legacy players that mega loathe T8. And a large chunk among those, have already dropped the game. Me included.
I have no faith anymore in these devs. I only watch what's going on in the community these days, out of a morbid curiosity. If you want my opinion, it's not worth putting up with all this bullshit at all.
I have seen a lot of comments like yours from legacy players, it's crazy interesting and a little sad to be honest. But thank you a lot for your comment. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
"In street fighter we have a bigger variety of characters picked"
I highly disagree with this statement. I think Tekken actually has a bigger variety of characters, at least in the lower ranks I'm in (orange to purple). SF, since the time I started playing in 5, has always had a ratio of 80% of matches having Ken-Ryu-Akuma. I've never spent a day without facing them three, and I don't play more than an hour a day. Whilst in Tekken yes we do see a lot of certain characters like Kaz and Reina, they don't occupy that big of a percentage. And unlike SF, I could go days without facing some of the top popular ones like the aforementioned.
Oh it can for sure not be universally true bro, at least in my experience and my region I fight more than half of the cast every day! So that's been awesome. I generally get fights against Akuma, Cammy, Bison, Ed, Rashid, Ken, Ryu, AKI, Jamie, Zangief, etc. Maybe other regions have more top tier centered players and people see less variety. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
80%? Akuma hasn't been out for a year even. For that to happen all 3 of them would have to have an over 20% pick rate and that's just not true by any measure.
@@BlueLightningSky When I said that I took into account my last year of SF5 too. The 80% taking into account all 3 shotos I explained I even calculated my own personal experience, playing 20 matches and only 4 of them not having them, probably 5 if I happen to rematch the same guy who played that other character
@@ButtonMashersYT Oh yes, the video was very interesting and had good takes! It was just that one point that I disagree'ed on. Hope we see more talk videos in the future!
@@faerojae5192After the huge response this video has gotten, I'll make another one about how I would change the game to make it better. Let's see hell break loose lmao
I think your reasoning is backwards. Casuals are the ones least affected by balancing issues. I am a Casual, I got into Tekken in Tekken 8. I'm not a Drag player, but I've been finding it fun fighting against Drag players. Why? Two reasons: one is that I learn the match up each time. And second is that it costs me nothing.
Pros however, literally lose tournaments because of balancing.
So I don't really agree with your reasoning here. Balancing is the least of the casual players concern in my view. I'd even argue that it makes the casual experience fun as again, it costs you nothing to lose a game. Can't say the same thing for pros
For sure bro, it's a lot more rough for the competitive player, and your mindset is the healthy way, but not everyone has that approach! If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
also right now they dont seem bothered with making it more balance. The brunt of the content is monetizing EVERY aspect of it. Next patch youre gonna have to pay 25 cent to go in tekken lounge. The paid stage really burst my bubble of enjoyment. I was buying every ounce of content outright and really into T8. The sheer lack of consumer care and greedy EA money grab made me reconsider
2 dollars every round to make Dragunov's moves -2 plus frames HAHAHAA
@@ButtonMashersYT with the number of Dragunov online and in tournament, Bamco gonna make bank with your idea!
6:10 if you don't enjoy 2d fighting games then you don't really have an alternative
Sadly yeah, it's been a rough last years for 3D Chad enjoyers. Nothing to discuss there :C If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
We need tekken 7 tournament mode in 8 that was fun time
Oh I never played that bro, what was that mode? If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
@@ButtonMashersYT Is was a online tournament game mode with all skills level. My friends and i played it every weekend it was fun but of course it can be sweaty sometimes to. One of my friends was so salty some time that he kicked all the Good player in that tournament some it was only me and my friends left haha.
@@Sneaky_Jawa loool sounds crazy fun tho, it's like the world tournament mode on Sparking Zero. We need that back as you say!
@@ButtonMashersYT I totally agree.
Bruh.. balancing issues only affect high level players. Op characters are still annoying but they're not unbeatable.
Oh of course balance is more important for high level bro, but not winning against a character it's only a part of balance issues, and also is not the only reason why the game could be rough for casuals. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@ButtonMashersYT Your main point in thr video is thst casuals can't enjoy this game cuz of balancing issues while people like TMM can because they're more used to it. Its kinda backwards. MK1 is horrible balancing rn and still sold like hotcakes cuz of casuals. T8 balancing is not even close to T6 and T4 level, and it's hasn't been a year yet.
People are more pissed off about Bamco being greedy af and focusing on how monetize the game more. That's the reason Tekken players and more vocal about the balancing issues.
@@semaj06 balancing is not the only point I made, it's only a section of the video, but it is of course part of the discussion. The one and done's and lag switchers are also a huge problem, and for everybody honestly not only casuals. The monetization is something I didn't really take on the game because I don't really spend money in the game, but it is also a big problem, it is very poorly design for sure.
This Tekken is incredibly miserable to play. I would even say it's more miserable than Tag 2. Tekken 8 introduced disgusting playstyles from players doing some really cheap stuff and alot of flowcharts and all with the First To 2 for online queue. The character's identify is ruined forever(Dragunov, Jin, Yoshi, Alisa) it's literally torture playing against them.
One move among the many other absurd ones that i can't understand is Dragunov's Sneak 4... It's +7 on block, wall splats, launches in Heat and tracks quite alot... Oh it hits grounded...
I have also heard this from different people that have played Tekken for a long time. I only played some Tekken 7 and as a child some old Tekken's before 8 so my knowledge is more limited, but I've seen the comments around the options in this game being ridiculous. I feel like that encourages a more "single player experience" inside the fight, which honesty makes the experience awful. Nobody wants to play against a character that basically wins by minimizing the most it can the number of interactions you can do to them. It's pretty rough for sure. If you liked the video please consider subscribing, it means a lot. Have an amazing week bro.
You are damn right . I play since Tekken 6 thats why i am used to having top tier characters with problems in the game . Tekken 7 Was no difference. But i also know with times goes on the game will be getting better and better. And of course they cant now roll out a huge balance patch when in start of December are the TWT Finals. But its have to be said this game misses the 2 years Arcade Machines time period . This is a huge factor in terms of balance and also New for namco . But its have to be said the Game now is waaayyy better then it was at release
Balancing it's not Tekken's favorite thing it seems like 😂 thank you for your opinion. I do enjoy T8 even after all I stated in the video. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
Why was the video made? To complain about its difficulty? I could summarise this video in one sentence:
"Tekken 8 is too hard and I want it to be easier UWEH".
However, I'll address some of your points:
1.) Only legacy players can enjoy this game: Wrong. I came to T8 from T7 after putting down the franchise all the way back with T3, so I do not have legacy knowledge. Currently, my main is at Garyu rank with a 93% win rate (Kazuya). Why? I do not mash 24/7, like most newer players. I actually block, read my opponent and counter appropriately. I take the time to practise my character and really get to know the game plan for my character. I feel you do not do any of these things, based on your attitude throughout this video.
2.) Game is not balanced: There is not a single competitive game out there that is truly balanced. Why is that? There will ALWAYS be a power level gradient as the player base figures out what is strong and what is not. Furthermore, making all characters identical removes any sense of identity and enjoyment from the game. Do you even know anything about basic game design philosophies? More to the point, why do you care about balance? You're a casual player, by your own admission.
3.) Nobody re-matches me, UWEH: Dude, you are not entitled to a re-match from anyone. If they "one & done" you, move on. There will be other opportunities to fight that character. If you really want to learn a match up, go into practice mode and drill. However, I feel this is a moot point as you say multiple times that you are a casual player. Casual players do not care about learning match ups - they simply fire up the game now and then, mash out a few games then move on.
4.) High level Tekken: Casuals shouldn't even be in the ranked queue as that is the competitive game mode for Tekken. That is what Quick Matches are for. If you wish to play in ranked, you NEED to put the effort in to learn match ups and work on your fundamentals (spacing, movement, punishment etc), as well as learning your own character in and out. It is completely unreasonable to expect ANY fighting game developer to make its games easy so everyone can be high level, as that would completely remove any skill expression & reason to even want to play the game competitively, either in ranked or tournaments.
5.) Should be easy 'cos it's just a game: I openly scoffed at this ridiculous statement. If you want an easy game, competitive mode fighting games are NOT for you. D'you honestly think SF6, which you praise repeatedly, is easy at high level? HELL NO.
To summarise, if you wish to play competitively, stop whinging and actually put the effort into learning the game and levelling up as a player. If you wish to play casually, forget all of the above and just have a laugh for an hour now and then.
Perhaps you should just stick to story & arcade modes.
Ciao.
I think you took it too seriously bro hahaha it's just a discussion, nothing is set on stone. It's just a space to talk about the game, there is no "truth" or right opinion. I have also had a great time with the game, does not mean it is immune to criticism. No need to take such an agressive stance on it. Take care and have a nice week.
@@ButtonMashersYT I disagree. The entire premise of your video was the highlighting of everything that is wrong with the game from a casual perspective, yet you spoke on a subject that, typically, only competitive players care about.
Disappointing at the lack of engagement on my comment, so I'll leave it there.
Thanks.
I don't understand why rage quitters, lag switchers or balance design is only important for competitive players, like casual players can also enjoy ranked or move into it to learn more and toxic behaviours like lag switching for example affects everybody not only competitive players. I'm glad that you are having a great experience with the game though, that's amazing. I have also enjoyed it a lot, just wanted to put some points for discussion out there. Don't get too mad or aggressive about it, it is just a discussion at the end of the day.
I'm a legacy player and I'm not enjoying the game
Put this on a T-shirt 😂 😂
Yeah I have also seen a lot of complaints about the game from legacy players 😂 I hope that you can enjoy it more in the future bro. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@@Yaxye. TEKKEN 8
This is gonna be very long. But I wanted to share it with anyone who wants to read.
Legacy player here. I've been playing Tekken for almost 27 years. I also played Tekken 8 for 500 hours, and I reached God of Destruction rank with 4 characters I like to play. I can literally rank any character to the last rank, but I lost interest as the game became so dull and boring. I honestly don't like Tekken 8 and stopped playing it seriously, almost completely in May of this year. I'll tell you why and try my best to explain my perspective. I won't be speaking for other legacy players, many are happy with the game, and I'm happy for them. Others are angry with it for different reasons. So, I'll just speak for myself. Maybe some people share a few points with what I'm gonna say, but yeah, just a heads-up to point out that these are my personal reasons for hating both T-7 and T-8.
Rage Arts/Drives and Heat/Armored Moves:
For me, the rage art or simply ultimate moves, supers, call them whatever you like, are one of the main reasons that changed Tekken so much to the point of no return. These locked 15-second animations or so, are so bad and ruin the flow of the game. Tekken used to be an honest traditional fighting game where skill has always been king. You don't get to gamble and throw moves like that, with armored properties too. You had to have a well-thought-out plan when you played, not moves that give you free advantages just because you pressed 1 or 2 buttons. The only advantages/disadvantages that you had were based on knowledge of what to do when you're minus/plus/neutral. Also, why make rage arts automatic cutscenes? At least make them in a way that you perform them like combos, interactive. Something similar to Geese's 2nd rage art in T7. That was interesting, and I wished all rage arts were like that.
Punishing Defensive Style:
This, for me, is the stupidest thing ever. Why would you punish those with good defense? I can understand the game new motto is all about being aggressive and offensive, but that doesn't mean people with great blocking skills should be punished just because they know how to block strings and react to all your moves correctly. This is so dumb. Defensive style should be as powerful and effective as offensive. Chip damage ruined the game for many, myself included, even though I'm more offensive in my playstyle. But still, it's not a reason to ruin defense.
Comeback Mechanics:
In a fair fighting game, you don't get features to help you if you make a blunder. You take the loss in that round/match and try again. There was no such thing as rage/free damage just because you played badly. You play badly, you lose. You try again, you make progress, and thus, you improve. Simple and honest. But rage/rage arts/armored moves, and now heat, killed Tekken's core gameplay and identity.
Forcing Guessing and 50/50:
Now, to be honest, Tekken has always had guessing, especially at higher levels. The difference is that in older Tekkens, you had more option-selects, and even if you found yourself guessing at times, if you're quick enough and familiar with the matchup, you could break the guessing and even counter that. In 8, this really changed. If you're forced to take 50/50s, that's it. It's RNG now, and you pray to guess right. It's possible to break from this and gain the upper hand again, but the way it's implemented favors some characters over others now. Not because of their damage or strategies, but just because of their moves and kit. This makes the game even less balanced compared to older Tekkens.
Balancing:
Just like you said in your video, Tekken has always had balance issues, but before the patching/updates era, players adapted to the game and developed charts and methods to deal with every character, their cheese, gimmicks, and whatnot, be it broken or not. Now with the introduction of constant nerfing/buffing, the game has lost its anchor. Every major patch or season feels like another game with a different meta and approach. This can make even the most hardcore players just quit because they don't enjoy it anymore, not because of a skill issue as many like to say “git gud”, but simply because the game loses its identity with constant changes, becoming just like the ship of Theseus. One wonders if the ship is still the same as all its original parts are slowly and gradually replaced with new ones.
Simplifying the Game:
I get the idea that the devs want the game to be easier/simpler so that more people can join and play. But that doesn't mean you remove legacy moves/core features/combos etc.. and make some characters so dumb that playing them is laughable. Since they introduced a simplified playstyle, I'm fine with that. I don't mind that the game becomes accessible to everyone, even if you press 1 or 2 buttons to perform the hardest moves in the game. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is removing some skills completely from the game and replacing them. Some players have been honing their mastery and craft of the game for years. You don't just come and strip them of that. If you want to make your game easier, leave the legacy aspect of the game as it is, and just make another version of that difficult move to be easier for newcomers and casuals. Like this, you keep legacy players happy because you preserved what they're looking for in a game with a high-execution demand, and at the same time, casuals can enjoy the simplified controls. And to each their own: those who want to play the legacy style or simple style are free to do whatever they like. What's sad about this is that some characters in Tekken 8 have both versions but the majority do not have their legacy skills and replaced with simpler commands. Take King/Nina, for instance, their command grabs come in two versions: an easy version with 1 button and less damage, as well as a legacy version for old players that gives full damage. This is how you reward skill and your fans who've been playing your game for decades.
I really want to see TMM reaction when they make kazuya’s PEWGF doable with only f+2. And all Mishimas mains. I’m sure they’ll feel what all Law’s mains felt when they dumbed down his DSS inputs to just holding f.
....
Part 2
Removing/Changing Legacy Moves and Core Features from the Game:
I can't count the features they removed from the game. Tekken has always been a very deep and rich fighting game with tons of niche mechanics and unique features, but the devs thought it was a good idea to completely remove them from the game or change them radically into something else. I'll name a few:
Wall Combos: Tekken 4 introduced wall combos, but they were so glitched and broken. Then came Tekken 5, which fixed them perfectly. You see, wall combos weren't always 100% guaranteed when you mashed buttons. Many high-damaging wall combos used to require specific timing and delaying for certain moves so that you could perform them. A well-known example of this is Bryan's b+3, 1+2 as a wall finisher. You had to press b+3 first, then wait a bit until the opponent re-splats on the wall. Then before the falling animation starts from the wall, you finish with 1+2. Only then could you get that combo. Another example is Nina's df+1,2,1, f+1+2,you have to delay the last hit so that it connects. And many other examples. I think you get the idea. As I said, many wall combos weren't guaranteed if you just mashed buttons, and that gave many Tekken players a sense of mastery and knowledge when they went for those specific combos. Now to be fair, Tekken 6 was the one culprit that changed this, not T-7 nor T-8, but I wished they reverted back to that T-5 wall system in 8, instead of keep going this path of mashing instead of precision.
Just Frame Moves: As the name suggests, these moves require you to press the follow-up inputs at the exact moment a hit connects-moves like Paul's DemoMan, another version of Law's DSS+3 and WR+4 DSS on the wall vs certain characters, Lee's b+3, 3, 4, some of King's chain throws after tackles, and many more. The devs started simplifying them since T-7, and they went even further in T-8 by completely removing them. Now just frames and very precise moves have become an afterthought, a memory from the past.
Chicken: Tekken was the only 3D fighting game that used to have a counterattack for a counterattack. It's very tricky and hard to pull off, but it was possible. They removed this in Tekken 8.
10-Hit Strings: All Tekkens from 1 to TTT2 gave characters some variations of 10-hit combos, except for bears and Ogres in T1 to T4. Then all characters got them without exceptions. In Tekken 7, they began removing some versions, and in T8, they removed more, and some characters were left with only 1 variation. Which is sad. It’s true these 10-hit strings aren’t really useful and are easy to parry/block, but they added value to the characters and their personalities, even though many consider them just bloated content for knowledge checks. Personally, I like these combos.
Streamers and Enjoying Tekken 8:
Now to address whether streamers and many legacy players who are still playing the game actually still enjoy Tekken 8. I think it’s easy to tell if you’ve been following them for a long time. In the case of Mainmanswe, he’s the biggest Tekken streamer and content creator of the franchise. Even if he doesn’t like the game anymore, it’s part of his brand and personality now, and it gives him money. His criticism isn’t like it used to be, and he’s become one of those NPC content creators. As for veteran players who’ve been around since the beginning, many of us suffer from the sunk cost fallacy, and we’ll continue with an activity we've invested a lot of effort, money, and time into, even if the current costs outweigh the benefits, and even if we really hate the game.
There’s also this tendency and shift in the gaming industry towards excessive corporate greed and ignoring the fanbase, which explains the DLCs, pay2win schemes, and all the scams these companies are known for.
To wrap this up, indeed, Tekken 8 has become impossible to enjoy, and everyone has their personal reasons for not liking this game anymore. Personally, I don’t think the problem is casuals vs legacy players. They could both coexist and enjoy a good Tekken game if the devs listened to both sides and made the game accessible to newcomers without altering what made the game great for legacy players. Adding and extending upon what’s in the game is better than changing or removing things to please one side of the equation. And of course, fixing the never-ending problems that have been plaguing this franchise for years, from the ranked system to all other aspects.
Finally, as Aris said, Tekken needs a reboot. This will solve the problem, or at least remaking one of the best Tekkens ever, 3 or 5. Since now, remakes have been more wanted than new franchises.
Crazy to be honest how good you are and for how much time you have been playing. I can't read it completely right now because I have to work, but thank you a lot for your comment and opinion, I really appreciate it. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing it means the world. Have a nice day!
@@ButtonMashersYT Sure man, take your time. I already did.
This game doesn’t feel rewarding even when you win. That’s one thing I loved about tekken 7, you really felt like you deserved the win, now in tekken 8 you just have to put your brain to the side and spam your bs move (I’m blue rank btw). They should also bring back infinite rematch because FT3 format is kinda mid
Infinite rematch would be godlike bro it would be so good!!! I hope they bring it back. But yeah it does feel like spam is winning LOL. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
You are not entitled to a rematch but I really don’t like pluggers I’m also a casual tekken 8 player only play a few hours a week and have been enjoying the game after I really disliked sf 6 so much
Yeah no one is entitled to a rematch, but a game as hard as this should give you some incentives to rematch, taking into account how complex it is and all that you need to learn. In SF6 I'm having a blast with Terry, sad that you can't enjoy it. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
Sorry but your video is confusing you state your a casual player how then would you expect to be able to have fun or be able to compete with people who have devoted 20 years of playing the pervious games to just be casual im not trying to cause an argument but it just doesn’t make sense if you want to have “fun” against competitive players then you now have to do what they had to do grind and waste time practicing if you don’t want to do that I don’t know what to tell you I’m glad the game has kept it to be somewhat gatekept on knowledge it’s not going to hold your hand like other modern fighting games.
I mean, I've seen a lot of comments from legacy players saying they don't enjoy the game, so it's not only only related to new players to the franchise or stuff. And also I've been playing fighting games for over 10 years, so even though I'm not an expert of Tekken I still understand it. I believe it is simply a discussion to have and it's interesting to put it on the table. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing it means the world. Have a nice day!
@@ButtonMashersYT you too I got you man but yea I’m not tryna be toxic or nothing I understand that the game is now making certain changes to make it where you can compete with pro players but that’s where it ends if your simply relying on the system or character cheese Yknow.
Too many complainers ...just play the game it looks amazing it's faster than Tekken 7... everyone complains that it's changed alot. There's a saying... Preach the need for change but never do it too fast.
I enjoy the game, doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about it's state! If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
@@ButtonMashersYT Nah not you there have been too many complainers... About the mechanics about it being imbalanced about strong characters just like in Tekken 7... That's a sad way to play it Tekken is a difficult game ...alot of possibilities...Namco even tried making it easier for casuals and spoiling some things ... But making some things better. So in the end the game is what it is...but they ruined my boy Jin... 💀💀💀
I dont dislike heat i just dont like how they implemented it. Tekken did need something else added to the game or it would of just been tekken 7.5.
Very true, heat is great maybe it just needs some tweaks. But I do like it, it's very fun. It makes the game fundamentally different from 7. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
You get one and done's because you try too hard, you don't give people a chance to recuperate, so they won't give you a chance at a rematch. You all so desperate to win, you killing the fun for other players.
If you know you the better player, tone it down a bit, keep it playful.
I just rematch everybody I play hahaha for me there is no reason to not rematch. I don't care about winning, so I don't even think of pressing the button or not. To me rematching everyone is the way because to get to learn more
@@ButtonMashersYT But they not rematching you, hence you get one and done's. 90% are desperate players, they wanna win, they wanna rank up, they just don't wanna do the work, if you go hard they bail because you blocking them from eachieving their goals.
Never accept first, if they wanna fight they'll accept and you follow suit, and if they don't you won't, and you move on. This also avoids any mind games at the rematch screen, cause some will wait for you to accept first just to blow you off.
If you want more time with your opponents, give them 2 and take 3, rounds and matches, surely you can afford to lose one round/match to keep the peace.
If casual's dont want to deal with Tekken 8 cuz of excuses then dont play the game. The difference between casuals and legacy players is that legacy players love the game vs the casuals tha play the game just to play
I mean, it's not the goal of the video in any way to think like that XD it's more than just a black and white situation
Legacy players were once casuals but they actually accepted tekken for what it is and putt effort into getting good at the game
What about casual legacy players ?🤣🤣
I would consider myself that actually also! I have known Tekken for 15 years, and played Tekken over the years, but I have simply NEVER tried playing it seriously until now. I do love a lot of things from Tekken 8, but I don't know if I would consider it great for casual players. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving a like and subscribing, it means the world! Have a nice day!
I've been playing Tekken casually since Tekken 3. My main has been and still is Eddy, and I still enjoy the game. sorry, but in my opinion, I disagree with you. I still enjoy the game to this day.
There is nothing bad with disagreeing with me as long as you express so respectfully as you did bro. I posted the video to just put a topic on the table, I'm glad that you listened even if you don't agree, I appreciate that. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing, which means the world. Have a nice day!
TBH even legacy players arent really enjoying Tekken 8 either, because legacy skills is becoming more irrelevant in fighting games..furthermore Tekken 8 heat mechanic!, FF2 moves hit full screen, nerfing the spacing game, and overall how over aggressive the game is, turning everyone off. then the monotizations and paid DLC stages is for different subject
Yeah I didn't even mention monetization it's a whole big discussion lmao. I've responded to so many comments with this viewpoint, it makes me sad that so many legacy players have a negative view of the game, but I can understand why. Hopefully the game will be in a better state in some time! If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing, which means the world. Have a nice day!
Clickbaity thumbnail + weak arguments about balancing = dear youtube, please don't recommend me this channel ever again.
Sure bro no one can force you to watch me hahaha just trying to put some thoughts out there and a discussion on the table. Take care!
Yo to be honest, I rather get cheesed by a mashing string one and doner then getting throw looped by akuma bison and cammy
I don't even understand how people legit think SF6 is a fun game when both throw loops and drc make the game dumb as fuck, and people with legit no fondamental at all reach master by doing the throw / strike mixup for days
Y'all really need to play an actual good game, just go back and play some garou, some old kofs
I swear even strive is less degenerate then SF6 is. Having years have footsies being flushed down the toilet just so the game looks cool but you have a dumb af mental stack is the worst decision they could make.
The fact a dude like Noah the prodigy can even do result in this game by doing all the scrubby ass things I said prove that SF6 is a sham
The throw loops are for sure frustrating 😂 a weird part of the gameplay design from the game. For me I'm just waiting for City of The Wolves, I know the game will be PEAK. If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@@ButtonMashersYT I already play KOF games alot, I hope garou saves us all but yet no Blue Mary annonced :(
How do you feel about Terry in SF6 ?
I feel like he isn't that much a guest. I legit think he is not as well made as in smash for exemple. I'm kinda sad because I really can't enjoy him in this game (been playing the dude since 7 years at least)
@@lhautlowI like Terry on SF6 but he of course feels more street fighterish, but he still has a lot of SNK flavor! He is not that strong tho, best mid tier or worst high tier at best
I just want Anna 😂
😂 she seems like a very popular character. She'll be in the game in the future for sure. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
@@ButtonMashersYT okay 👍 i will
This is the scrubbiest video ive ever seen. So yall want an unbalanced mess of a game just so you can have the satisfaction of winning with the help of situations that need to be fixed? Go play another genre if dont want to respect when players that KNOW fighting games address an issue.
@@joelfamilia9989 I know fighting games bro hahaha I've played them for over 10 years, gotten high rank in multiple games. It's just a discussion about the state of the game, nothing else. Take care!
@@ButtonMashersYT Thats cool, and I've played fighting games for 25 years. But there's a difference between a game that was intentionally made to be for casuals, and a game that is unfinished. Tekken 8 falls in the second scenario because it did not have arcade test runs, so Bamco had the audacity to release the game in the current state that is in. Why do you think it's had 7 patches already this year? If they're having to do so many patches within one year, it's not that Bamco is trying to aim at casuals or whatever. The many patches is evidence that the game has legit issues and players are trying to address this. So you making a video with the mentality of "Oh it's cool for casuals, leave the game as it is" will not solve the problem neither. This game's player base is declining as we speak, so the "Casuals" aren't saving this game at all. Tekken 8 has serious balacing issues.
I dont dissagree with you necesarily, but i do think your stance is a little extreme. Im not a legacy player, but i have about 500 hours in the game.
I have a feeling that it is not the legacy players that are one and doneing and plugging a bunch, but they are the ones that are making the game a horribly toxic environment. This makes it very annoying to try to learn anything from them. Any time i fight a legacy player they throw a fit if i beat them because i play reina, and i play the way the game encourages me to play.
I completely understand not wamtimg games to change much as new ones come out. Im a huge Souls fan so elden ring coming out and being a very different game, open world, more ways to circumvent the difficulty, and less tightly designed in general, elden ring didnt hit as hard as some of the other games did for me. But as a long time fan, im not gonna shit on new players for enjoying elden ring for what it is, and i still appreciate elden ring for what it is. Some of the more recent souls players though (ive noticed mostly people who hopped on with dark souls 3) ARE throwing fits about people enjoying elden ring. Thats where the people getting mad aboit spirit summons, summons, and strong builds mostly come from.
I think a similar thing is happening here. The actual old head legacy players arent having as much of a problem because theyve been through the game changes so many times. I think its mainly people who have played tekken 7 that are shitting on new players the most as if its a new problem that has never happened before.
Also on a separate note. The balance is pretty bad but its a problem with any game. This is the first game ive gotten actually competitive with so i notice it a lot more.
My arguments are not super developed on the video since I mainly just exposed my thoughts to try and put the discussion on the table! So it is for sure not that articulated. Thank you for exposing your opinion tho. If you enjoyed the video, please like and subscribe! Means the world to me. Have a nice day!
The solution is easy, stick to games in which knowledge of the meta reach diminishing returns quickly. Or maybe stick to games that are too complex that a meta is imposible. Or maybe go to your nearby park and talk to women idk.
HAHAHA 😂 my girlfriend wouldn't be happy with the last one looool maybe I'll try the other advice though lmao. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing it means the world. Have a nice day!
I am a veteran and I hate this game as well
😢 I'm sorry that you feel like that. I think there are amazing things on it, but it doesn't feel like it is in its best state. I'm going to be uploading more videos on the discussion and also how Tekken could become a better game. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like and subscribing, it means the world. Have an amazing day bro.
@@ButtonMashersYT yeah, it doesn't feel like Tekken to me, if this was a new IP I would probably appreciate it for what it is, but it was sold like Tekken, and they failed to deliver, and thanks bro, you got the follow.
This video is pretty disappointing. Mainman enjoys the game because he is getting paid a lot of money to play it. This video also shows how much of a failure tekken 8 is. Tekken 8 heavily caters to casuals and they don’t even like the game. Neither do legacy players. What a complete failure of a game.
I mean, would you say that when you see him play, he is suffering or something? It seems like he is having a pretty good time, so I don't believe money is the only motivator, it's relevant though of course. And the game is not a failure, it's probably the iteration of Tekken that has earned most money and sold more copies, so it's not really something that can be considered a failure, it is simply in a state that can be perfected. If you enjoyed the video please like and subscribe, it means the world. Have a great day!
One n doners are the WORST
Yeah I hate the experience you get when people one and done you over and over just so you can't adapt to their cheese. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing! Thank you for the support and have a great day!
The thing that bothers me the most about the youtubers and pro players is the fact that they are defending a BAD game. I have played tekken for 25 years, and this one is the most annoying, thus I stopped. I don't defend all of the flaws, or just push through the BS. Tekken 8 is bad and flawed, so therefore, the logical thing to do is to state the facts and move on. You have dudes like PhiDX defending Namco and it's like............nah, the game sucks, coaching is stupid, the game is fundamentally flawed, and Heihachi died and was retconned for no reason.
There is for sure that discussion too. I personally don't think the game is bad, just not it's in a better state. I have never played Tekken seriously before though, so I don't have that print of information on my brain. So I can for sure see why a lot of people would think the game is bad. If you enjoyed the video, please consider giving it a like and subscribing, which means the world. Have a nice day!
Tekken is hella enjoyable, people need to stop whining cause all that energy can be spent learning the game. Its called a learning curve, get used to it.
Just trying to have a healthy discussion, no whining about anything. There is no need to take such a defensive or aggressive stance around talking about the games you love and discussing how they could be in a better state/which things could be identified as problems.
@@ButtonMashersYT This discussion is being held practically since its release, you people are insufferable, this a problem, that a problem, everything is a problem. Nerf this, buff that, and you still ain't happy.
I think this is a fgc problem, not a fg problem. I think you people got shit mentality, I'm so done with the whining.
He’s not complaining it’s the truth tekken 8 is an incredibly annoying game…it’s not challenging it’s just downright annoying to play with people who spam and lag switch I’ve don’t ran into so many lag switchers it’s crazy…and when I do lose I lost over 600 points so he not complaining it’s straight facts
@@Darkart-BLCK That's the beauty of Tekken, it has an offline mode where you can fight npcs and ghost...
Stop whining, people exist, deal with it.
@@Carlo-j9z y’all are missing the point and it’s fans like you the reason why developers of a game don’t learn because the consumers steady kissing the developers asses even pro players of tekken find the game annoying are you gonna tell them they are whining as well it’s not that hard to understand it it’s not rocket science lol
As long as the game is designed properly, I don’t think it will lose its fun factor. We can’t control the toxic people. We can only try to make them be better. Try to make an environment that does not let them thrive.
I don’t see anything wrong with catering to casuals. People have gotten used to the Heat system and not everything has to be a game of calculation. Some chance is fun.
I don’t like the “make every character broken” direction T8 took, but it’s a lot better than T7 mechanically and visually.
That’s just my take though.
The game is for sure miles better than T7, fully agree with that! And yeah sadly nothing we can do about toxic behaviours, just wish it would be different tho! If you enjoyed the video please consider leaving a like and subscribing to the channel, it would mean the world, have an amazing week!
@@ButtonMashersYT you earned the subscription and like. Good choice in content.
@@usmansubhani7482 thanks a lot for the support